The Flop House - Ep.# 386 - The Santa Clause 3: The Escape Clause, with Alonso Duralde

Episode Date: December 31, 2022

Mr. Christmas himself, Alonso Duralde, of many other podcasts, returns to dissect the third, and most narratively sweaty, of the Santa Clause trilogy, "The Escape Clause." Also, if you're wondering who stole Cagemas, Dan says a few words about it. Let's not say "goodbye" let's just say "congratulations, Mr. Cage, on paying off your castles."Wikipedia page for The Santa Clause 3Movies recommended in this episode:Adult Swim Yule LogThe Big FourMahanagarConfess, FletchEver tried Microdosing? Visit Microdose.com and use FLOP for 30% off + Free Shipping. TODAY is your LAST CHANCE to enter the SEXY XENOMORPH VIDEO CONTEST! The entry period ends with 2022! Sexy Xenomorph Contest: Full Rules —To enter the contest, make a music video for the song Sexy Xenomorph (link to song in show notes) in a style of your choosing.Once you’ve completed your masterpiece, upload it as a public video on YouTube with the words “Sexy Xenomorph” somewhere in the title, and be sure to credit the music to Howell Dawdy’s Fast Track and The Flop House podcast somewhere in the video or video description.Once the video is uploaded, email a link to us at [e-mail] with the subject line “Sexy Xenomorph Contest.”We’ll be accepting entries up to midnight on New Year’s Eve, 2022.Once we have all the entries, the Flop House gang will pick our favorite ones – somewhere between 5 and 10 depending on how many entries we get – and we’ll set up a page on our website where people can vote on who wins.The winner will get a Flop House prize pack and will get to pick a movie for us to cover.

On this episode we discuss the Santa Claus 3, the Escape Clause. Okay, real quick, can I just enact the Escape Clause right now and not have to do this episode? No, you're cursed. Oh. Hey everyone, welcome to the flop house, I'm Dan McCoy. I'm Stuart Wellington. I'm Elliot Kaelin and before we get into our normal Tom Foulorean Jack Cornery and sitting in a corner and putting our thumbery into Christmas pies and pulling out a plumbery, I wanted to

introduce our very special guest today. That's right. It's that time of the year, the holiday season. And so we couldn't do an episode without our favorite holidays, although we should have him on for non-holiday movies also guest. He's the film reviews editor for the rap. He's co-host of a vast universe of podcasts. And he's the author of the book, have yourself a movie, Little Christmas and co-author of All Be Home for Christmas movies. That's right.

You already knew who it was before I started the introduction. Alonzo Dorolde, our favorite. Thank you so much for joining us, Alonzo. That be holidays, everybody. It's my, my, my, has come back. I'm very excited. Yeah. This once a year, you have to come and help us to guide our way through this strange time we call Christmas time or you'll tide or ex miss or tide is rising. Or if you look at Dan's search history, triple ex miss. I'm here to show you the true meaning of Christmas flops. Yeah. So on this podcast, Dan, what do we normally do?

Well, we watch a bad movie and then we talk about it. That's the simplest way and perhaps the simple ways are best. It's worth all the time to say that way. Yeah. But Dan wants to amend it. No, there are a few things I want to say that way. Yeah. Yeah. I think I want to amend it. It's no, there are a few things I want to say of top. If you're at home, you know, throwing your phone into the the

local pond or water treatment, like off off ramp. I don't know what I'm looking for. Yeah. The local pond offer apps without the frogs. No how to get in and out of the pond. Yeah. Those. Yeah. If you're angry, I was about to say that there's no cage miss content here. I just want to say a quick word about cage miss.

I'm not saying cage miss is dead people, but we've seen this last year. There was a book, a retrospective book, the age of cage by Keith Thips, who we really should ask to be on the show to talk about it at some point. Yeah, that's true. Yeah. There's a movie that was very meta about Cage's career. And Mr. Nicholas Cage seems to have paid off all of his castle debts and is back to making movies that he's chosen perhaps more wisely.

All these things together, I think. There's a war on cage-mas. There's a war on cage-mas. I'm glad we're right up top. We're alienating all the new listeners who are like, I love the Santa Claus 3. I only hear these dudes talk about it. No, I'm just also, you know what?

I mean, after all these years, Nicholas Cage, I've been uncomfortable with the memification of a man who I think is a good actor and our own part in it. I'm not saying that like in the future, if we don't have a good cage movie, we're not going to bite right into that apple, but perhaps not every year going good. We're not, we're not going to have the, we're not going to have the material. I think, well, it's I it reminds me of when when I worked at the daily show and people would be like, oh, this bush because it was back when bush was president this bush. Yeah, the worst president we've ever had, right? Oh, I mean, the fact that two of the worst presidents of American history happened this in like

the past 20 years in this century kind of sucks, but one almost after another. But the that people would be like, you don't like him as president, but you must love that he's that he's doing the job, because he gives you so much material. And be like, no, I don't. I would rather the show get cancelled in the country, be doing well. And I feel that way about Nicholas Cage. Like, I love him as an actor. I think I would just rewatch the vampires kiss recently, which people are like, look at this crazy performance, but I love that performance. And I think, and I think a good year, this was a good year for Nicholas Cage. And I would rather he have a good year and be respected as the actor he is,

than he before, to make just crap after crap. Make a guess to do. Something to talk about. And you know what? Yes, so the other thing is, I was very excited to talk about Santa Claus 3 with our pal Alonso D'Aralde more more than I was to try and watch the Nicolas Cage movie right now. So let's get into that piece of shit we just want to play.

So real quick, we're talking about the Santa Claus 3, the Escape Clause, which is the third in a series. A series of movies I've seen none of. Really? I've seen none of, but Dan... Really, you said, as if it would make sense for Stuart to track down each of the family movies, I'm starting to. I feel like by some sort of cultural osmosis people in general have seen the first Santa clause.

I mean, I saw the first Santa clause, which was a big hit. I was, yeah, I was 12, I think, when it came out. And I saw that in the theaters, Santa clause two, I didn't see it. At that point, I was like, what, 14? So I was already watching hardcore pornography. And if, if, if, Stuart had said, well, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm going to say, I'm Santa Claus too, I didn't see at that point. I was like, what 14? So I was already watching hardcore pornography. But if if Stuart had said, well, I've never seen Galaxy Quest, I would say really, that's the Tim Allen family movie. I would be surprised for Stuart not to have seen. But so Dan, you actually, would you like to tell us Stuart, started taking a thunder. Dan, would you like to tell us about the research project that

you put together before watching this and then fill us in on the previous history of this. Last night, Audrey was like, so we're going to watch the Santa Claus before watching the Santa Claus three years, right? And I'm like, are we? And she said, you know, she's those happy wife happy lifetimes. Yeah, you watch it in the Santa Claus. And point me, I was like, sure, you know, because it was a favorite from her Claus. And point to the side of the mirror that myself. But I was like, sure, because it was a favorite from her childhood. And I watched it in theater too when it first came out.

And that was the last time I had seen or thought about the Santa Claus. But once we were into the Santa Claus, I was like, I kind of want to watch the Santa Claus too as well. And so it turned into a three movie marathon last night, because just because I was curious about how they could possibly keep pushing this premise into that's right. That's right.

The forelisters last night Dan had every man's dream of three some of Santa Claus movies. All three clauses. Now I can assume that the first one is the Santa Claus, Tim Allen becomes Santa Claus. Okay. And the second one is the Santa Claus to Santa Horde and they need to find him a wife. That that is essentially it. I want to I want to get into it just with a little more depth. I promise I won't take up too much time before we get to the room. We were essentially talking about. Please don't. Santa Claus won very much right in the middle of those 90s family films, which are much more about a depressed divorce dad than you would expect.

And I'm like, why was this the family film thing? Like we have to show it's like Tim Allen at the beginning of the Santa Claus is a genuine asshole, like not like a comedy asshole, just like this. We're almost even a real stretch for him to mail. Not a very nice man in real life, but like he, you know, I mean, this is also of the time, like therapy was mistrusted even in the mid 90s. As recently as the mid 90s, there are a lot of jokes about how judge Ryan holds a stepfather character is a therapist and how that's bad somehow, I guess, because

he cares about emotions and it's nice. I'm like Tim Allen, his cause, his letters. Yeah. And every time he's on screen, they play like yoga music. Well, I mean, it was like when he takes up yoga, but yeah, well, it's like how in the, in 80s movie is the idea of sushi was automatically injure. Yes. Like, only a crazy, weird, rich person in a city would think to eat sushi. And now it's something that is all over the place. Yes. Or, or, or, I mean, literally, I need to clean it up. It's all over my house. It's just a mess. Cell phones, even, like the early, big, brick big brick cell phones. If you had one in a movie, you were an irredeemable douchebag.

Yeah. Yeah. So that's basically right now, we're all super cool. Woo! That's basically the Santa Claus. We're a rich guy who pours his every cell phone into a cell phone to share it with the world. Just a philosopher king of some kind, yeah.

That's basically the Santa Claus one. The arc is him becoming slightly less of an asshole, through becoming Santa Claus. Through killing Santa Claus and then taking on his role like Craven the Hunter, killing a very spider man alive and putting his costume on to kill his bed with a spider. Yeah, unless it was an high in line or our lives. Tim Allen, Tim out the only way he can, he can move forward emotionally is to take Santa's place. Bones and all.

And, and experience that high. Yeah. Oh, man. So, so that's that, uh, Santa Claus too is, of course, as you say, they discover a previously unknown clause that he has to have a wife. Now, where is this clause coming from? Because there's also these state clause. Who made these laws?

I think that thing where if you're going to have a NBC late night show, you have to get married, isn't that why Jimmy Fallon got married? Did he? I don't know. It seemed like he's been nowhere. I mean, I thought he was married before he had that show. Maybe I'm wrong. Anyway, Christmas magic is the answer before he had that show. Maybe I'm wrong. Yeah.

Anyway, Christmas magic is the answer to anything that confused you. Okay. Christmas lawyers apparently. And so, yeah, Spencer Brezzlin, kid Spencer Brezzlin, we will see less young kid Spencer Brezzlin in the movie we're talking about today, past his cell by date, I would say unfortunately, sorry, Mr. President. Wow. Wow.

There are people who are child actors who should not have been actors when they were not young. Wow. Well, I guess someone's not watching a Christmas story, Christmas anyway. He discovers this clause and for some reason, he like tells numbers. That's who I, that's how I think of that guy, whatever is at the neck. Crone holes. Yes, his most famous hole.

No, no, no, no. Free numbers. The math detective. He like above his objection, Spencer Brezzle, and it's like, we got the, the, the others are going to get nervous with sand out of town. So we have to use this toy cloning machine I've made to create a toy robot version of Santa. So, of course, there's the logical Mrs. Claus plot and then we keep cutting back to the fun stuff at the North Pole where Santa Claus, the robot, goes crazy. Things all of the children are too mean,

like that we're too leaning in on kids. I love it. Decides that he's going to give them all coal and creates an army of large 10 soldiers to enforce his will. Perfect. But does he do like a cool dance like Megan? Yeah. And at the end of it, yes. And the end of it, Tim Allen convinces Elizabeth Mitchell, the, the, the, Juliet from Lost.

Yes, Juliet from Lost, but the principal at his kid's school, he has learned that his kid was naughty, which is part of the reason why he's home as well. The principal at his kid's school, he convinced his herd of Mary him after like, I think one date on the basis of, he says, you've known Santa all your life. And I'm like, that was a different Santa. First off, it's creepy. Secondly, it's factually incorrect, because that Santa was a different guy that you killed.

But anyway, so I think there's some kind of, there's like some kind of shared memories, identity type thing, right? That's possible. I think you think there is some sort of, yes, there's a cultural memory that gets passed down a genetic Santa memory that gets passed down, a genetic Santa memory that, yeah, yeah, young talks about that, the collective Santa conscious.

Yeah. So Santa's basically proposing to her the same way that like Stephen Tyler would hit on a much too young woman. It's like, you've been hearing me all my life. You know me. Yeah. Basically. So that's enough of that.

I'll let Stuart who's loving an elevator. That's about us. Oh, man. The bad news. Talk about the big baby. So movie opens with the Disney logo in a snow globe. Is that, do they do that with all the Santa Claus? I don't think so. I think it was just this. All the smokey Lord of the Rings new line logo. All them have very cheap credits sequences that they look. This movie has a lot of snow globe material in it. So maybe that's what you're right. They're opening credits. Okay. I'll check my notes, but I don't remember.

I mean, I'm informing the listeners. That's not really you. The credits do look very cheap. Yeah. Yeah. It looks like it. It right off the bat, it looks like a TV movie more than a yet. And Alonzo, you've seen a lot of TV movies more than anyone probably should. Yes. And I this was I was, you know, we talked about this particular movie on undecided homework this year. And one of the co's there said that he read that the budget for this movie was $12 million, which just seems impossible to me. I don't think you get your one and two on the call sheet for this movie for $12 million, but given how janky a lot of it looks, it's not out of the question, I suppose. Yeah, $10 million went to Tim Allen and the rest of the movie. Yeah.

Okay, so the movie opens in the North Pole. The North Pole kind of looks like Disneyland dressed up for Christmas, right? It looks kind of like a scene for. Yeah, it's the happiest place that children are used as slave labor to make toys for other people. Yeah, those are happiest. The elves, Elliot. They're just played by children.

They're just, they're children with funny looking ears. Like that's what they are. The children with Submariner ears. I'm sorry. It's the happiest place at Magnetic North. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

So we open with Mrs. Claus teaching elf school. Again, I don't know if they're elf, are they elf children? I don't know because they're all children, all the elves are children. It's a weird thing. It's a weird thing for her to be teaching school for adults unless this is like a night school. So these, these elves can have degrees. Yeah. So the baby Yoda thing, you know, he's actually 50. So like we even know, I do also want to say about Elizabeth Mitchell, baby Yoda's get start, baby Yoda started getting his social security checks, but he's just a baby. I know, but he's, he's old enough technique.

Benjamin Button kind of thing. Elizabeth Mitchell in this movie at the end of Santa Claus. That's why Yoda talks back. He's a Benjamin butt. That's why he ages backwards. Any talks back. He's seen so much history just like Benjamin. He's kind of experienced America like we have. Hey, remember when the Beatles run Ed Sullivan, Benjamin Button watched that on TV too. That's why I brought a witness to all of the subjects of the sentences at the end in that movie. Yeah. Cause it's back. Okay, guys, Dan, Dan has something to find. No, it's not funny, but I certainly would like to be able to get through an entire

sentence without going back to the previous bit at the very end of it. No, I just wanted to say in the in the previous movie Elizabeth Mitchell, there's a credit sequence where she like dances and lip syncs to a Christmas song or whatever. And they have Santa Claus her up in the credit sequence. You know, like they've done the fat suit like slight aging. I mean, not to the degree of Tim Allen, but she doesn't have a big bushy beer. Yes. But in this movie, like they clearly were like, we can't have that. Elizabeth Mitchell is a pretty woman and we're Hollywood. We can't have her looking like that throughout the film. According to Wikipedia, they shot for

a couple days with her in the like, um, Zaftec Mrs. Clause, like makeup. And then they're like men and like it was her face wasn't moving. Two. But I'm sure anything. It was like not, not skinny and hot enough for the execs who are over. Who's moving? Who? What a fucks. Mrs. Clause. Considering, considering I work on a TV show that is an animated show about dogs and a note that we would get would be basically why aren't these dogs sexy? So, well, why aren't they? The idea that, the idea that, that was a note you got from me, bitch. The idea that they're like, Santa Claus is a boss.

Like Santa Claus is a famous rich guy. He's got to have a hotter wife than this. This is crazy. Like when people are like, Hugh Jackman, there's no way he loves that woman. She's not at the same attractiveness level that he is according to us. He's wolf like. He's ringing for God's sake. This is wolf right.

He should be with Jean Grey or another woman with red hair or or Mariko, a Japanese woman because the only kind of people will ring can be with. Okay. So Mrs. Claus, the elves don't want to learn. So she's like, I'll tell you a real fucking story. So we get a flashback. So the rest of the movie is basically a nested flashback. Okay. Yeah. And and the movie really needs this book at those book ends. Right. It would not be a function without. It would not make sense. I mean, that's the punchline. I'm going to make a case. There's a point to this, but I'll wait till we get there. Okay. Okay.

Please do because I was like, this is maybe the most unnecessary You better start building your fucking case, but So we are so you can Phoenix right this bit at the end of the episode. Yeah, so Yep, so we the the story she's going to tell them is it seems to be her birth story It begins with a false alarm Mrs. Claus is pregnant. She's going to have Santa's child. I learned that it's not his first child because apparently that's information not covered in the previous films. And he helps from Son of Santa. Exactly.

This is his first son as first child as a Santa. It's previous children were as, were as an ordinary. By the way, that he's infusing the power of Santa into his area. This is one of the many questions that the Santa Claus raised for me that is not answered by the Santa Claus films, which is like, okay, Santa is having a child like not from his previous pre-Santa life. He's having a child at the North Pole, but we've learned that also Santa is like a mantle that gets passed along. Are there other children from previous Santa's

living at the North Pole mad that their birthright does not go to them, but whoever might murder their father didn't die in front of them and they could put the code on. Exactly. That's a good question.. I once did a presentation many years ago at a former guest Kevin Mars, one of his Kevin Geeks out shows, there was about a Christmas, and I did a presentation about all the movies I could find that involve the children of Santa Claus, because there's a lot of them where it's like Jenny McCarty is Santa's daughter or Kelsey Grammer, Santa's son or whatever. There's one where, was it Matthew Modine, I think, is Santa's, I can't remember. Arthur Christmas has a whole lineage and Noel.

Yeah, Arthur Christmas. And I was wondering, I kind of wondered the same thing. Although my presentation then went off on the idea that using the Santa Claus as a basis that Santa has now become viral and at this rate of spread, the entire world will be Santa at a certain point. But this was pre-COVID, very, very frovetic. But, but yeah, you're right. There's a lot, like, there's a lot of unasked questions about what it means for Santa

Claus to have a child. Since the Santa Claus is not one person, but instead like the, the, the kind of fan continuity of James Bond is a, is a name and, and a position that gets passed along from one to another with a dread pirate Robert. Exactly. Exactly. And it it's cause. Yep. No, no, no, I'm, oh, please, let me go along with the plot here. So this is an addition of raising questions for you. It's raising some issues between Santa and Mrs. Claus because she is pregnant. She's due any day now. And also Chris Mrs. coming up. So she's worried. Yeah, she's worried that she's going to deliver her baby while he's delivering presents.

She also feels lonely. She made her baby Jesus also. We could only complicate things for her. And she's also lonely because she only has elves to hang out with. You know, if you've got like that one day a year that is absolutely booked, maybe you would like reschedule your,

you know, with the word I want here. The dissemination? Thank you. Yes. It may happen in the future or something, you know, with the word I want here. Extermination. Thank you. Yes. It may happen in the story or something. I'm really well, they thought they were using the rhythm method because he's Catholic, but unfortunately, they got, they got the dates wrong. Well, here's, and this is one of the weird, you know, dead set on wanting a Scorpio.

Yeah. That's true. Yeah. Cause he really wanted his kid to have a reason to wear the jacket from drive. You don't need a reason, Ellie. The reason is because it's so cool because it's a sweet jacket. And if you're Santa's kid, you really want to be born on Christmas day because nothing is going to overshadow your birth of God. If you're your Wes Craven's child and you're born on Halloween, you're Gary Marshall's

child and you're born on any holiday. That, that, that, this is the, and so are I'm sure you're getting into this, but the crux of it where it's like, she's lonely, she's expecting her child, she wants to be with her parents. For some reason, this is a problem that, this is a Gordian knot that no one can figure out how to untie. There's no way she could possibly leave the North Pole and go spend the time with her family, something that pregnant women routinely do all the many times. And all she does is sit around in Santa Claus's office that features a Zardos like fireplace

of Santa Claus's face. That's an amazing piece of set decoration. Dan, is that in the other movies? No, I don't think it was. And then when he comes down the chimney into it, it opens its mouth and goes like, whole, whole, whole, it's crazy. Yeah, but I'm not in that for the TV show, but I think that it's introduced in three. It's what it, what it, like, it's almost worth the movie being created just so that that exists. It's so frightening. It's $1 million guys all on the screen. It's a, it's a somewhat

manufactured conflict, but like it does make sense that like she wants to be with her husband when the birth happens and he is super tied to being at the North Pole being Santa Claus. Yeah, that's true. And you have kids. Would, I mean, what if your job delivering presidents made you miss the birth of your child?

Yeah, as a UPS man with those, take shorts of yours. I mean, yeah, well, the shorts thank you. They do show off my gams in a way that I'm very happy with. I mean, that's the thing about being a UPS guy is, you're not just a somebody to deliver his presents. You're a cultural and religious institution that goes back hundreds of thousands of years. And so you really, the UPS driver is such an important part

of every child's holiday season. Second only to the Hestruck, because every year, there's gonna be a new Hest part of every child's holiday season. Second only to the Hestruck because every year there's going to be a new Hestruck. And you've got to buy I'm March is on. There's a new Hestruck every year, Ellie. It's a fucking, it's just part of life. You have to accept it. Yeah, it's a to quote Ben Franklin. There's nothing certain in this world, but death taxes and a new Hestruck every year. Let's go get it. I thought when you said that the UPS driver was this cultural thing, you were going to talk

of, of course, the cave paintings of all the gals and the stinopool being horny for the UPS guy. Yeah, yeah, that goes in and let's go. I mean, you can't go see them now in person because you can see the pictures of them. Yeah. If you, you know, there's a whole her talk documentary about that. It's not even a cave of forgotten UPS fantasy. Anyway, see it in 3D because they painted the way they painted on the rock so that the fallus of the UPS fantasy. Anyway, see it in 3D because they painted the way they painted on the rock so that the fallace of the UPS driver points right out at you using the natural rock project. I like to think I'm speaking for fans of the show everywhere where I say, I need to hear somebody use the phrase bad dad Santa dad.

Oh, you're right. He is. That's exactly the exact. Definitely. Yeah. I mean, that's definitely the case. He, uh, so he is also kind of being a bad Santa, not like in the movie, bad Santa, but he's kind of neglecting his duties in anticipation for this for this checking list only once, etc. Mm hmm. Yeah. He's, he's, he's, his mind is neither on his work nor on the coming baby, because he's trying to do it all. So, can a Santa have it all? That's the question of the movie. Yeah, again, relatable. So as we said, the, it seems like the solution is for Mrs. Claus's parents to come up and

spend time with her during the holidays and during her birth. However, those in laws are not, are not aware of her, their son son-in-laws profession or I do. And I tentative. Yeah, I guess. Yeah, I want to say, having not really paid that much attention to the credits, I thought to myself, now if I was going to cast a man to play a sort of maybe disapproving father and law, who doesn't know that his kid, his, his daughter's married to Santa and has to be the subject of this elaborate ruse where they say that they're in Canada and not the

North Pole, et cetera, et cetera. Who would I cast? Robert Neal. Robert Neal. Alan Arkin. Alan Arkin, yeah. And lo and behold, there he was. Ta-da. There's, there's only one issue with that with you. And I'll mention this is that there's a line coming up where his wife Ann Margaret says

something about like, well, I know you've never been all that into Christmas. And I wanted to say, because I'm Jewish, but it never comes up. And that was the only thing that stuck for me was I was like, why would you cast such an obviously Jewish actor to play this part? But that makes sense. That's why you said to me. It's funny. You make sense. Because I want it, or like, when at the, you know,

spoiler alert, when they finally learn the identity of Santa Claus for him to be like, he's just like, this is great. As if like, he doesn't burn inside him. That's what we got. Santa Claus has. He's one of the number one anti-Semites on the world, you know, realization, but once we get there, we'll get there, when we get there, yeah, okay. So this will require a little bit of subterfuge. We get a meeting of the legendary figures. So these are some kind of a council of kind of a random assortment of names that somebody picked out. It's very miscellaneous. It's very much like the Guardians, you know, yeah, exactly. And so that do you do who wants to is it okay if I go through the

games or store for who's on the castle. You're very excited. Why don't you do it, Elliot? Okay, the council of legends. It has all all the all the most important characters all the topics. There's the Easter Bunny who is gross throughout the movie.

There's Cupid as played by Kevin Paul. Who's just like float around kind of like in Shrink and with like the old style like just like video comp compositing. Then there's the tooth fairy, the Sandman father time mother nature. Sandman played by Michael Dorn, dude. Get your fucking bat left baby. So I don't it's hard to be to recognize them without prosthetic, plastic prosthetic forehead ridges on it.

I'm considered it. I'm sure for this movie. And here's the, okay, guys, here's what we're going to play a little thing of mother nature and father time. And of course, Peter Boyle is, is father time, but he doesn't get to do or save. By the way, I want to say Peter Boyle, a character who in the first movie plays Tim Allen's boss. And then they just bring it back into a three because father time is the boss of a boss of a soul. I guess so. That guys, we're going to play the game of choose your adventure here.

Should we, if you want to hear me be slightly more woke than I probably need to be and read a racial subtext into some of the casting that I probably shouldn't, but it's there. Tell me if you don't want me to do that, we could just go on with the summary. Tell me that. I mean, I think I guess what I want to hear that. Okay. What I want to say is that so all of these actors, all these characters, these legendary

characters setting aside the fact that of all these legendary characters, they, they either belong with, except for the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the only holidays that are represented are either, Valentine's Day or Christian holidays, a setting aside that, that the only black actors, the only actors of color on this council are Aisha Tyler as Mother Nature. And Michael Dorn is the Sandman that the only two color on this council are Aisha Tyler is Mother Nature and Michael Dorn is the Sandman that the only two actors on this council are playing the sleepy guy who's always falling asleep and the woman who is connected to nature. And therefore I guess has more of a is it is is it is the earthy quality. Literally. And you can read into it less civilized quality.

And I know this is probably them trying to be diverse in their casting, but it's like, why can't a black actor be the tooth fairy? Like, why do the black actors have to be the characters who are either falling asleep all the time or are more in tune with nature than us white people? And I was like, this is them. I don't, I assume there's no, I assume they weren't like, of course, the sleeping guy has a black guy. You've given much more thought of the casting of Santa Claus three than anyone else. I'm saying that anyone ever has. Yeah. Are you saying this?

Sandman in Mike Tyson's punch out was also a racial stereotype in a video game that is otherwise super not racist at all. I would, well, the only reason I would say no to that is because the Sandman and that, the whole thing is that he puts you to sleep as opposed to this Sandman who is constantly asleep. And Soviet Russia.

And man, yeah, yeah. It's real And Soviet Russia. And man. Yeah, yeah. Or maybe it's or maybe I'm being into it wrong and it's a reference to the Sandman from the Apollo theater. Theater. But you know, it was just one of those things, the same way that in the. And the fucking Morpheus, I don't know. The same way that it was in like a in the movie Meg where the one black character was like, I can't swim.

And no, it's not because I'm black and I I was like, well, why can't you let black characters know how to swim? Like that's like the, I feel like there's a, I guess Santa Claus three, try a harder, but they don't really try. No, no, no, I think you missed the boat. I'm getting them to try anything. So we get the final member of the legendary figures who is who is. Santa Claus three. I know you're a 16 year old movie, but try better. It's never too late to change. So we get the, we get the subject of this meeting. Jack Frost, the legendary figure who has been causing a real problem around around the world because he is jealous that he does not have a holiday associated with himself. Jack Frost looks like one of those cherry poppin dannies dressed up in like a zizzou with like icicle hair, like Guy Fieri hair and

like multiple wallet chains. He looks amazing. Played a course five. I don't remember the lot of chains. He has like four wallet chains. You didn't see that. Yeah. Okay. I mean, maybe it's a watch far, but I don't know. You're, no, I mean, maybe it's a watch fall, but you're no, I mean, check fucking tape, everybody. Uh, so, uh, Jack Frost in trouble because he's he's trying to upstage Santa. He's using his frost powers. He's got magic, everybody. Um, and he's less popular. And they bring up the idea of the escape clause where, uh, was the escape clause mentioned

in previous Santa. No, these are all new things. New things are being invented to extend the brand. So as punishment for his crimes, of which they are legion, Jack Frost is sentenced to death. I mean, his crime seems to mainly be that he put up cardboard standings and malls that say like happy frost miss. Andy, like, Andy, like, caused like a snow storm in Mexico, which I'm sure you like to

fuck up the crop failure. Exactly. Yeah, that's true. That's pretty bad. They don't really mention the how it would impact the agriculture of the world at that point. You know what? I'm seeing one thing that could be a wallet chain in one picture, but I would call it

that. I'm glad Dan Lomba was on the case. I wouldn't call it a defining part of his character, but I do see. Okay. Well, I knew you busy, I let you go. I want more questions though. But one moment, that's it, and that's that makes sense. I want to say it's a, it's a, it's a role that can pass down through the generations. So yeah, one more question.

When you have a kid, you're going to murder yourself in front of him so we can pick up your jacket and he'll be the next Santa. Martin Short, a man, no matter what like you, uh, you got Dan, you got to give him credit. His last name aptly describes his height. Well, yeah, that's why I was going to give him credit for it. No, it's also going to get him credit for it. No matter what he's in, like whether or not you like the performance, he is not phony at in. Like he is really, he's going for it. Like he is the person who looks the least tired in Santa Claus three. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, he's he's he's he's he's he's very up for it. He puts on a

very good rendition parody a song of New York, New York later. He's great. That's my, my favorite part of the movie. Yeah. Got Martin Shorten and it have him do a big old time show biz type number. Like he's what it is. What he wants to do, you know? Um, okay. So they a lot of they, the council agrees to let Jack do community service to help Santa with the toy delivery, which seems like a mistake upfront, but it's okay. I mean, we need to have a story, right? So, uh, Santa decides that he's going to bring family to the north pole to make his wife happy. Now that he's got extra help from Jack Frost. So he first goes to visit his brother. I don't know. Uh, sister and brother in law is that just right. No family. No, that's ex wife. That's his

ex wife. And he's his son. Yeah. His precent of son. Thank you. This makes a lot more sense. So he has no claim on the no claim on the throne. No, no claim to the son. Thank you. This makes a lot more sense. So we have no claim on the, no claim on the throne, no claim to the co. So the dough fan, he goes to visit the family. We are introduced to a pair of farting reindeer puppets. Yeah. Apparently, are regulars in the series? Yeah, I, I don't think they got featured that much in the first one, but definitely largely in the second one there were a big lot of reindeer puppetry, a lot of reindeer reaction shots.

And when we say puppets, we're talking, you know, like, creature shop style animatronics, they're just like hand puppets of reindeer and west of the big flare. That would be a layer of, there's just two marionettes and Santa is like, come on guys, full of this leg. Sherry Lewis is standing behind them. So with a little bit of work, Santa's able to manage to convince his, what, ex family to join him in the North Pole.

I would say he convinces them. I think that they are like, they want to come and help their like, yeah know, you must be, yeah, having a hard time. And how do you define a family? I think it's really great that he's close with his ex, that he's close with his son, that he's close with his ex's new husband and with his and with their daughter, that he is not blood related to, but clearly has a very warm relationship with given by the fact that he always is inviting her to hug him, which could be creepy, but is clearly nice.

So he's saying a cause. I mean, yeah, I always wanted to clarify this plot for a point because Tim Allen just not want more people joining him at the North Pole at this point. This is just an extra set of stress that his ex's family will be there along with his end laws, along with Christmas. Yeah, although I don't know why you wouldn't want judge Ryan Holds coming your workplace. That's a mean to judge right hold through the entire series of who you manage seems perfectly nice. Yeah. Just give me a weeny whistle though. Yeah, that's true. So he I don't know it. I don't remember that person. That was some kind of

move. Like they do that in it. They do that in a public that was the thing he wanted as a kid. Oh, a weeny was a cost more. Aliens here. Right. So Santa Santa amelies him in a nice way. Okay. Yeah. Mike.

So he also goes to visit his in-laws this time with a little help from his pal, the Sandman, and his in law, and he manages to explain that he's taking them up to visit them in Canada, which is part of his ruse. He is convinced that they've never been to Canada. So they assume that if with a little bit of set decoration, they can make the North Pole appear to be Canada. So then they blast him in the face with some sleeping dust and then they all head up north. Yeah. So yeah, to recap, they've been drugged and taken to the North Pole. Under a post presences. Yeah.

Meanwhile, the North Pole is hard at work, changing all the signs to say Canada stuff, all the elves put hats on. So they just look like kids wearing hats instead of elves, Jack Frost is running around looking exactly the same. Well, Martin is Canadian. So he doesn't like to do anything. That's true. And he. That's what Canadians look like. It turns out they have huge frosted tips. Four wall of dreams. Four wall of dreams. And more years and yet more wall of dreams.

Thank you. And he tricks the, he tricks the head elf into explaining the process of the escape clause, which involves saying a specific phrase while holding a magical snow globe. Okay, it's all about snow globe today. Check. He has to say, he has to say, I wish I was never Santa Claus or whatever. Or at all, it's one of the, at all. And it's one of the things where it's like, well, if he could have said this in the first movie when he didn't want to be Santa Claus, why didn't he? What was, did he not want to be Santa Claus

in the first movie? He didn't. He was really, he spent most of the first movie not wanting to be, as anyone who has a life would not want it interrupted by suddenly having to take the first place. I feel like, I was like all about it. I had to do it.

Well, Ernest was just saving Christmas for a day. It like I'll be Santa for a day. I don't want to get him. He was the liaison to the new Santa. Yeah. Yeah. If I'm Leslie Jones, I just want to host the daily show for a week. I don't want to make a career at it.

Yeah. Yeah. Back like Stuart, you will. And kiss ourselves. You will appreciate this. The first Santa Claus is just one step removed from being a horror movie because this man's body changes without him doing anything. He can't do anything about it.

He grows beards that, you know, if he shapes them, they're back at the end of the day, you know. The weight gain is instant and ineradical. It's like the fly a lot. He is cursed to be Santa, unless someone else removes his curse by death as well. And the film never quite acknowledges how horrifying it is to have to to leave your life completely behind to become this legendary figure. Well, because why would they Dan? Everyone in the world loves Santa Claus equally and understands that Christmas is the greatest thing

in the history of human civilization. Everyone in the world, and it's a little human being in the world. What can possibly, sorry, I don't know why you look. I know, I am, I am, I'm not, I'm not. You got a little grin over here.

Why would there be any reason for me to take issue with the idea that Christmas is a universal concept that all humans. sounds like we compelled you to do a Christmas movie on our own podcast, even though it was in, it was a no may way me acquiescing to the majority culture that I have never been a part of and never will be a part of. So Santa arrives with his family and his in-laws who were asleep and drugged. They run around, they visit, they do all the normal stuff that you do when you show your family your place of business. Meanwhile, Jack Frost is hunting for the hall of snow globes and he's tricking the various

elves and sabotaging stuff while Santa tries to entertain his family and maintain his roots that they are in fact in Canada. And he is a lowly toy maker. A lowly toy maker who employs dozens, if not hundreds of children. Of children. Yeah. Who he claims are just what Canadians look like. Are very just very short youthful looking people with pointy ears. All of that. Yes, the cold weather it keeps them preserved.

Yeah. All of Jack Frost skull degree causes stuff to break. But luckily, Sam's father-in-law is kind of a man's man. Alan Arkins kind of like a like a how-to fix it guy. Mr. Fix it. So they're able to fix a lot of things and it seems like they've saved Christmas. Uh, so. You say that as if it's the most boring thing in the world. Like like

many plot points in this movie, it there resolved very quickly. There's no time to even mourn the loss of Christmas. Yeah, saved again. I'm going to put out this movie comes in at a lean 92 minutes like this is the shortest of the three. They do not spend much time on anything, including the whopping plot twist, which we're gonna get to later. Yeah, exactly. Oddly number two is the longest. And you feel it, Santa horny.

Okay. So, okay. That was the original subtitle. It's just the Santa Claus, Santa Claus to no subtitle. The Santa Claus, three of these kid clothes, because up until they printed the posters, the subtitle was the Santa Claus to Santa Hornie. And I think at the last minute Bob Eiger stepped in and was like, we can't, we can't, we can't put

Santa Hornie in the tagline. And they were like, look at the poster for a little mermaid. There's a penis on that poster. We're Disney. We can do whatever we want. And but finally, Prince on Disney plus do still have the Santa horny title. But if you get to say it, if you squint your eyes on the little thumbnail image, you can see the pitching other stuff like mistal horny. Again, it's not it's a horny part is the issue. Not that I don't like that. I think there should be another Christmas pun in there. Horny holidays, the Santa Claus too. Hormie holidays again.

What about Santa Claus takes on all comers? Santa Claus too, Santa does Dallas. It's not okay. One is to interfere to the plot. That's my main issue. The opposite direction. What were asking? I don't even come to do with the intergenerational gang bang title. We refuse that two meetings ago. Well, yes. And one person just lowers their hand. It would be the most exactly what they're going to break up. You guys got more porn parody titles.

We could keep going. So, I mean, ho, ho, ho, it writes itself. Yeah. Yeah. So Santa takes the little girl into the hall of snow globes. Santa Claus too. Hello, horny guys, guys, we have to recall all the prince. It turns out we're losing the bread. And this gives Jack for us the opportunity to sneak into the hall of snow globes, which Stan described the whole Snow Globes. Can you recreate the magical experience

of this little girl, see you at the first time? Well, I tweeted a picture of it. I said Santa Claus three in the Multiverse of Madness, because it's got like this weird like, I don't know, it's like this infinity of lights outside. It's, I don't, you know, the end of Krempus anyone? Yeah, it's like being Captain Nemo's submarine,

except for outside, it's not beautiful water creatures. It's just like space and stars. I don't know. No, it's kind of an art nouveau holiday portal to the madness of infinity, the depths of eternity and the dark abyss. And if you stare into that abyss, it stares back into you.

Consequently, it's full of Christmas cheer. So there's lots of floating CGI snow globes everywhere. Yeah. And it's also, and this room is hidden behind what a vending machine in the break room. Yes. Yes. It's behind like a red bull parody vending machine. So Jack Frost takes, yeah, Jack Frost takes the magical snow globe. The little girl sees him do it. She alerts her parents, which of course means he has to freeze them with his freezing magic. So we get no more judge-run old folks time to, no, time to click on, not catch a break this guy. Yeah. No, we do get to, at the at the at the very end, we will get to see him do what every actor dreams of doing when they get into the business pretend to be cold as CGI ises thaws off of you.

I'm lovely. Falls off. It's one of those scenes where I was like, whenever I see actors in a movie having to do something patently ridiculous like that without and I know that the effects are not there when they're doing it. There's part of me that's like, they shouldn't have to do that. And then they're probably like, well, that's their job pretending stuff. How's it? Like, there's that story. Yeah, they're important for you, well, yes. Yeah,

exactly. There's that story, Matt's, Michelson tells about being in an audition for read Richards and them saying, okay, now pretend your arm is stretching really long and him walking out and being like, I'm not going to do that. And there's probably that's like, yeah, Matt, stand up for yourself. There's also part of it. It's like, well, how is that any different from pretending that you've been been you've been unjustly accused of child molestation in the hunt? Sure. Like, either they're both pretending something that hasn't happened. You're the prince of Denmark.

Your father is killed like I don't know why that's any different than. Except how is that you're, oh, I'm dying on stage. Uh, uh, uh, uh, you're not really dying. It's no different. They're pretending your arms getting all straight. You're a family. If he could stretch his shit out super long, yeah, amazing. He could hold that fucking skull forever. I don't know.

Totally different ending for sure. He could have stepped polonious from across the room. It's so easy. Yeah. Now I want to see that where it's, is he's got, he's hit with radioactive cosmic rays in the beginning. And so when he steps polonious through the tapestry,

he doesn't run across the room real fast. Like, he's, um, oh, through the tapestry. He doesn't run across the room real fast. Like he's, he's, oh, man, he's fantastic. The principal, he's, he reaches across the graveyard to get your skull. Yeah. He's not to be totally awesome. Man, you got to give layer to some kind of power. That fight at the end is going to be super one side. Oh, he's the super scroll. He's got a big gay super super. That's right. Yeah. And I'll know Forten Bros is a nihilist or something. I don't know. Okay. And Osric is the male man that always comes. Really love. Really. Really. What about Rosencaw and his turn? Oh, no, I digress. Okay. So. Well, Rosencaw. Well, that's Johnny's from an white wing foot.

Yeah. Anyway, because there's there. Oh, no, it's his friends from college, right right? So Rosengren's a good turn out of the thing and Dr. Doom makes perfect sense. Richard's actual friends in college. Oh man. You know, it's amazing how well hamlet passed to the fantastic world. Does it? And Ophelia is the invisible thing because we don't make new stories anymore. It's just universal tales that are spun with different. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, see this still fucking stressed out. He doesn't even know the judge, Ryan old Guffrose. And he's super stressed out. So you would, because his wife still wants him to be around, but it's like he brought her family up there, dude. Like, that was the whole thing, right? Why is she so, why is she bragging on him? Like, they're here. Are you really, are you wrong? That's the thing. And I feel like this is the, this is the,

this is the stress a lot of older guys who marry younger women go through, where she's like, I want you to be here for our baby. And he's like, I had babies. I've done this before. This is new to you. Not the way that we don't need to be here. And it's doing a weak snatch motion while he says that. Well, it's worth running out

though. Santa is freaking out about this impending child and it's like, dude, you've been here before. Like, I mean, Elliot, I'm assuming child too, you were much more chill about the whole process than I mean, I'm also the whole thing was so much easier and, and yeah, much more. It was like, we've been through this before. We're not, it was still, it was still, you're so anxious, you're still frightened, but I didn't have the same feeling of once the baby is born, if I don't look at him constantly 24 hours a day, he'll stop breathing and die. Because I have to constantly look at him and make sure he's still alive.

But the second baby I was like, his body was fucking out. It's not, it's not based on my, my observing him will not change reality that much that, that it's the only thing keeping him alive. I don't know, raising a child at the North Pole has to be hard. I mean, what are the schools like? Is he going to be taken away by schools or like, Mrs. Quas? That's true. Do you have to protect him from the wolves? That's a fair point. And, but he, I feel like this movie is setting it up, especially for someone who we've established can stop time, right? To deliver packages. It's really established a conflict that one, kids cannot relate to. I do not think kids can relate to being pulled

in two directions by your job and the stress of starting a family. Kids shouldn't be really in this and two that he has magic powers. So it like he shouldn't be as he shouldn't be as stressed out. But it's a thing. I guess the thing is Santa Claus Santa Claus having to deliver presents on the same night a baby is due is a fake conflict you would never see in reality. But if it happened in real life, it would be pretty crazy. Yes. If it hadn't been real life, it would be that's I'm sure. Yeah. Yeah. I'm just playing devil's head real life. It would be better. I'm sure. Yeah. You got it.

I'm going to let just what I just playing devil said playing by are you afraid of the dark rules? If I was in this situation, I probably would be stressed, but it's not a situation that from the outside is that stress. Well, I mean, also you can't fold time in space the way that Santa has the cancer. Presumably he can deliver all the presents now to all over the earth in one night and be at the side of the do-low while his wife goes into labor.

The thing. Yes. And here's the other thing. Here's the other thing. Jack Frost fucking things up. That's San is problem for delegating to the wrong person. Exactly. That's not him.

And why it's like, well, Jack Frost, you're clearly trying to steal this holiday from me. Maybe I'll put you in charge. That's a bad, especially when you end. Yeah. He's a, I mean, it's a big villain performance. He's not pretending. He's a bad. We have to bring you in. Yeah, he's a, I mean, it's a big villain performance. He's not pretending. He's a good guy. But I, I want to ask the, like, the thing that bugs me out about Santa is like, so Tim Allen, you know, as Santa Claus in the Santa Claus films seems to be experiencing time normally when he's delivering presence. It's not like he's super, like speedy, like

he's within it, you know. So is every Christmas an eternity to him? Is he constantly like, like, you know, 365 days of the year he's with his family? But then like that one day he's away from his child is like thousands of years. Is that what's going on? He interstellar. Yeah, I bet that's what it feels like. And no time has passed for them or minimal time. It was so it's like he's traveling at the speed of light. Yeah. So it's a different thing.

So it's an interstellar. Except the opposite. It's the opposite. Yeah. And so yeah, it's like interstellar, but with holiday, you'll tie it to your ear. And yes, and yes, and yes, everyone in the world because everyone loves Christmas. And tell everyone,

because every single person in every part of the year is both equally loves Christmas and is equally beloved and rewarded by Christmas. Okay guys, we've had enough goofs. Now it's time for this movie to get focused serious right? Yes, I will wait. Wait, before you do that, I just want to say basically Stewart. So Santa Claus is experiences like the kid in that Stephen King story. Was it the John?

John, yeah, where he rips his fucking eyeballs out. It's so gross because for his family, it's been hours, but for him, it's been an infinite amount of time. Long John, dude. It's a long John, daddy. Yeah. So long to the thing daddy. Yeah.

Oh, man, what a good anecdote. What a good anecdote. That's how you end a story, Stephen King. It's or how you, how you, how King. It's it's or how you how you how you reach the high point in event horizon and then go downhill from there. Pretty much maybe maybe

maybe maybe my favorite they're not eyes out. Stephen King short story and they're making it into a movie and I cannot understand how that is possible. They are. That's not what you do. Maybe it's a 60 minute

adventure. Who knows? I mean, because it's basically all set up for a kid ribbon as eyeballs out, right? Yeah. Maybe it's a 60 minute adventure. Who knows? Um, I mean, because it's basically all set up for a kid ribbon as eyeballs out, right? Yeah. I mean, even 60 minutes is stretching this story quite a bit. Yeah. Okay. Maybe it's a, yeah, it's Andy, uh, I was going to say is Andy Rooney in that? I guess. I don't know what you mean. Six year or why not? Okay. See see it was on 60 minutes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's the bit. Alex just add more jokes.

Make sure it goes in there. Just bring up the magic drink powder on that. Spring and fart noises. Yeah, yeah. Like, you stuff on it. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Blings, yeah. Stuart, you were saying, let's get serious.

I'm trying to trap and make more jokes. Let's get in there with Alex. Alex, stop with the jokes and add in some serious sounds. I'm trapped making more jokes. Let's get in the house. Alex, Alex, stop with the jokes and add in some serious sounds, maybe a spooky organ or some kind of bump, bump, bump. I'm sorry, we can't get you in the rushy by the background. Thank you. I want to be a lone smile. Because there's nothing spooky here than getting tricked by Jack Frost into holding

onto a magical snow globe and being tricked into saying the exact words so that you enact the escape clause. Uh-oh. And at the last moment, Santa Claus realizes the enormity of what he's done. It all comes crashing down on him. And you see the look on his face. Tim Allen's performance, oh my lord, it's amazing. Yeah.

And he realizes the weight of all of his transgressions. It hits him all at once. It's like, it's, it's kind of like the end of Michael Clayton where he's riding in the back of that car. And you just watch the emotions travel across his face. It's, it's like, it's, it's kind of like the end of Michael Clayton where he's riding in the back of that car and you just watch the emotions travel across his face. It's incredible. Now I was finally learned that as the Bible says, the wages of sin is not being Santa Claus anymore. Dan, what are you going to say?

Well, so we've pulled it back to the future here, right? We've changed the past. Yes. Yes. But funny, you should say that. But I, I am confused by how time travel works in this because then we are back in present day of the movie. Tim Allen's life apparently has continued as it would have had he not been Santa in the meanwhile. Like, he just was dreaming. And now he leaps back into that

body. But now he has the memories and consciousness of having been Santa Claus. I do not understand. Well, it's like I think because he was it's like in time cop where he manages to fix the line. He does split. He does the splits. And you look at the time cop where he saves the day, which means he now has a child whose name he doesn't know. And he's going to have to pretend he remembers everything about their life up to this

point. It's time travels hard for the people doing the traveling. Alonso, you time traveled. What we can do. Well, yeah, yeah, I really don't want to talk about it. But the, what I think they're doing here, obviously, is this is the, it's a wonderful life section. Yes. Yeah. So in the same way that George Bailey and arguably Clarence, as the one person who knows the Bedford Falls version of all the awful people that he's encountering in Potter's

ville, Scott Calvin is now like, yes, possessed of the knowledge of having been Santa Claus, but also having also having continuous life, which means he forgot. He knew it until now because he's somehow become more successful and more terrible and like ruined a bunch of people's lives, but now it's all rushing back to him. This movie is very baffling with that stuff, but it does bring me to why this movie is a flashback. Because I have a suspicion this was like a tight 88, and then somebody at Disney was like, you know, this gets a little dark and scary now,

where Scott is no longer Santa Claus, where Jack Frost is Santa Claus and he ruins Christmas and everybody's miserable and the kid is like, boom, the, you know, the wife is unhappy. Everybody's sad and terrible and awful. And I think they thought that children would be too weaked out by this part. They need the reassurance of knowing it. If they know it's a flat-track kid. They know by the eels at this time. Exactly. Yeah. That actually, that makes a lot of sense considering my kids definitely, they do not, it hasn't yet gotten into their bones yet.

The thing we all know now going into stories where we're like, I know this kind of story, it's going to turn out okay. Like there's no way the story's going to end with Jack Frost being Santa forever and everyone's life in bed. But my kids, they haven't internalized yet and they get very anxious at the parts of movies where it looks like things are not going to turn out okay. So I get that. That makes sense. I mean, no way a defender of the Santa Claus three. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no that thinking quite a bit that they, that they were looking at it from a kids point of you and not an adult's point of view since so much of this movie otherwise feels like

it is probably adults point of view. Yeah. Indeed. So yeah, as we said, enacting the escape clause sends Jack Frost and Scott back in time to the exact moment. He became Santa Claus what 15 years ago, 13 years ago, which means we see Santa Claus die at least twice. Yeah. If you get off on that, oh boy, this is going to be great for you. Get ready. You're going to be spent like Dan, watching all the Santa Claus movies. Yeah. And so, and this ends with Jack Frost taking the code of Santa Claus, the mantle.

And that sends them hurtling back into the future where again, Scott is a successful, but very lonely businessman whose personal life is in shambles, his ex-wife hates him, judge Reinhold hates him because it forced his marriage to dissolve as well. All because he had a take care of Scott's son. It's kind of wild. It wrecked the father's son dynamic between judge and the son and and we've, that's seen it shown by the most horrifying thing of all that Scott's son doesn't want to spend time with his mom on Christmas Eve, but wants to drive around with his friends, a terrifying dystopian vision of regular life as it is done by most teenagers, I suppose. And speaking of terrifying visions, we see the North Pole has now been turned into like

a g-rated biff verse, where Jack Frost now Santa Claus is flaunting his status. He has made everyone aware. He is, for some reason, he has turned Christmas a time of joy into this like entrepreneurial capitalist thing, which is wild. It's basically turned the North Pole into like F.A.O. shorts. And there's like screaming reindeer and pens that record your voice. It would take a monster of Jack Frost level to turn Christmas into this capitalist mercantile, cash only society. And it's like, you have to and the one joke I thought was funny was in this part was other than the song, which I did enjoy was Jack Frost.

It's like a weird hybrid of Jack Frost and Santa Claus, which is even more Guy Fieri than before. Oh, for sure. Which makes me realize Guy Fieri is just Jack Frost and Santa Claus mixed into one person and he likes to eat crap. So that that that that Jack Frost is booming over the loudspeakers. Kids, make your parents buy you things that it shows how much they love you, which I think is just a funny just them saying the subtext of Christmas. But I guess he is he I mean, is he still giving out free toys is like are the free toys

now a lost leader for getting people in the door? I think it does not give out free toys at all. He only charged it. Well, but he does charge people to be on the nice list. So presumably the reason you want to be on the nice list is to get the free. All right. Is to get there. I don't know. It allows you to edit your tweets. It allows you to get some kind of status, etc. There's many. You might be able to block a not nice people, you know, et cetera, et cetera. There's many things to be in the nice list. You might be able to block a not nice people and drive them off the thing. This is the Walt Disney company telling you this. You know, the idea of, like, let's talk about

like parents having a bike ride for their kids. Yeah, you take your children to Disneyland and tell me how that goes. Oh, by the way. It makes this the most, one of the more subversive things about the parent company that I've seen in the, from a Disney movie. Since I, watching the old line king with my, with my kids a while back and it was like, when, when, when Ronat can start to start singing, it's a small world after all and, and

Scar goes, no, no, no, no. Like, at the, at that point, that was about as subversive as you could get in a Disney movie was admitting that that's an annoying song, you know. Yeah. I, this is, you know, I mean, the anti-capitalist message as hypocritical as it is, is maybe not a bad message, but speaking of weird messages in Santa Claus movies, I, I didn't talk about the fact that part of, part of Santa Claus too was Santa blaming Elizabeth Mitchell, you know, that maybe Santa's son would be a better kid in her school if there were some Christmas decorations around the school.

So like briefly becomes a strong Christmas thing. That is incorrect. That is a bad message. I don't like that. And he's still carrying that one through to the Santa clauses on Disney plus free makes it really. Oh, it's no problematic to wish somebody a Merry Christmas now. Yeah. What a surprise skirt. Tim. And it's funny that that joke is happening in a world where on Halloween, fully, I think a third of the houses we went to said, happy Halloween, Merry Christmas. And it was like, are you kidding?

Like not only do people still say Merry Christmas, they're saying it on a holiday that's almost two months before Christmas. Like it was and my kids and that was the thing that and that was the thing that bugged my kids. They were like, why is everyone telling us Mary Christmas? This is Halloween. Because the hallmark was already started in late October, Elliott. So we're all in the, we're all in the thick of it.

Yeah. Okay. You're like, you're like my busy season keeps creeping up for like you're an earlier end. So we do, this is when Jack Frost does put on a very solid parody of New York, New York. This is pretty funny. This is very funny. Martin Short sells it for sure. Yeah. And then Scott Manches sabotage the performance. He causes a big distraction. He somehow gets the globe into Jack's hands. And then he plays a recording of Jack saying the exact words to a, to enact the escape clause. This is taken maybe 10 minutes of movie. Okay. I want to, yeah, this, this dystopian

world where he is not Santa Claus. I was flabbergasted by how little time this takes in the movie. But then you can say, well, there are multiple things. One of them is along the lines of that. As Alonzo points out, yes, this is the, it's a wonderful life thing. And granted, it's a wonderful life. Also, that's true. That's true. Only has dystopia at the very end of the movie for much shorter time than everyone remembers. But the rest of the movie is filled with like a beautiful portrait of George Bailey's

life. Where's this movie, like up until the point that plot gets in. And it's not called, it's not called, it's a wonderful life, Potter's fill. Like this is called the Santa Claus 3, the escape claws. Yeah. And he escaped closes barely in the movie. But sorry, Daniel. No, it's just like this movie is an experiment of like, what if we make the whole movie out

of the padding? But also, I just like Santa Claus Tim Allen tells his like his exes and new husbands, like daughter Lucy, to steal the snow globe for him while he creates a distraction. I found that very upsetting where he's like enlisting the small child to do his dirty work. You do the dangerous part and I'm going to, I'm going to hog the spotlight and turn this into the Jack Frost stunt show. Yeah.

Well, you go, well, you go do all the hard part. But also then like apparently I guess it doesn't matter that Jack Frost said the words and was holding the globe at two different times. As long as he plays a recording of it, it's fine. They just need proof that he, you know, he could have said the words. I don't know. This is felt like a real like lawyer up Scott. Yeah.

And it's like if if if if Mr. McKessler played a recording backwards of Superman's name or something. Yeah. Yeah. That's yeah. Actually, why hasn't super never done that? That would be he solved the

whole problem instantly. He's just carry around a tape recorder and just play it back with it, but you're right. It's I don't think he would hold up in in clause court. Uh, Santa's got a lawsuit on his hands now.

But and just imagine how different it would be now making this movie when you can just have an AI have, have Jack Frost voice say whatever you want. Yeah. We just feed it in. Okay. Deep fake him. Yeah. Make a video of it.

So this no globe is like, well, I saw it and heard it. Yeah, you're not saying anymore. So we go back in time again. Luckily, it's not going to hurt your brains too much because the previous Jack Frost, Santa Claus thing that was there, that's not there. Okay. So it's just this current version of Jack Frost and Scott. I guess we get to see Santa die again.

Time travel splits off a new timeline each time. That's why there's that's why Kang is after the Yeah, that makes it interesting or something. Yeah. That's right. So of course, this time, Scott manages to put the code on and he is Santa Claus again in like less than 10 minutes of movie time. They get zapped back to the future. How crazy would it be if they went back and the other Jack Frost and Santa were there

and Santa was like, I've got to kill them all. Can't hold these extras running around. And each time they, he kills one to get stronger, yeah. Yeah. And he gets Jack Frost power, I guess that way. But unfortunately makes a rookie mistake. He buries them under the snow. That's going to melt in warm weather. Those bodies show up. You're in tea rubbed. Although by then, I guess he's at the North Pole. No extra edition treaty. And while blonde shows up, they're best. They're the only one. Class. Yep. So, yeah, that's a good name.

So he makes up to his wife. He explains some of his cause, what happened, I guess. And then he decides he reveals the SOS, that's right, secret of Santa to his in-laws. And we get to see Alan Arkin deliver the most berserk mom log of his favorite. I love it because they're just like they have a fixed like camera on Alan Arkin. They're like, he'll just sell this and he looks like he's funny because Alan Arkin be also looks so bored. Like he's doing the lowest wattage version of his already low watt persona of like,

and he's, what is he's piecing the pie? He's putting the pieced together Batman the movie from 1966 style where it of like, and he's, he's piecing the, he's putting the, he's putting the pieces together Batman the movie from 1966 style where it's like, yeah, yeah, Batman, yeah, toys, sure. And if, uh, if this is, so this must be a toy shop. And that toy shop. So who makes toys around the North Pole? Oh, you're saying not like it's, yeah, it's, he's led to it. It's literally the movie being like shows almost over. Let's wrap it up. Come on. Let's just do this. Well, I just felt like there's like told Alan Arkin to improvise this realization and

just let the camera run to be fair. He is one of the legendary improvisers. I mean, he's a founder of the compass flyer. He's terrific, but yeah, just keep the camera rolling stretch, stretch figuring it out. And by the way, and Margaret screen legend is like could her role could have been played here by like a vacuum cleaner? Like it's just given nothing to do. I'm delighted to see her, but she is not. You look, she looks fantastic. It looks like she hasn't aged today since Grumpy Old Men, which was like 12 years before this or something like that.

Like, you know, but it's, yeah, they give her very little. I mean, I'm hoping she and Alan Arden got to like have fun and catch up and talk about stuff. The lunch was time for her. We're, you know, I was great. Yeah, like Mike Nichols together. Yeah, she does. She does get to sing.

She gets to sing, I think, three lines of what the, that Mel Tormay, Christmas song, the Chestnut's rope in the Christmas song. Christmas song. Christmas song. The most uninvited title. This is it. It's the Christmas song. Are you sure there's a lot of Christmas song? No, they said the one famously so many Christmas. They have a whole, it's a whole genre. They've a name for it. No, no. So all of the magical legendary figures show up. Jack Frost faces justice for his crimes and he receives a magical hug that turns him into a fucking nerd and unfreezes the frozen family. In the aforementioned very cheap looking scene of Judge Reinhold and the actors who place

his wife, unfreezing. Now, obviously, this is a case where we're talking about digital animators probably working under a time crunch with no money, but it looks very laughably bad. Judge, the ex-wife, long career, nothing like that really jumped out of me, other than she was also Harrison Ford's wife in Air Force One. Wendy Cruz in his her name. Yeah. Yeah. Okay.

And then Mrs. Claus has the baby and everyone's happy end of the movie. Yay. Did I miss anything guys? No, that was, that was the end of the law three exhaust. It was the first for the first time in a flop house in a long time movie. I checked for bloops. And there were bloops guys. There were so many bloops.

Yeah. There were bloops of, uh, of the Easter bunny hitting on Ann Margaret. And look, I cannot blame that bunny. There were other groups too, but there were plenty of that. Yeah. It was like, I was like, I don't think that the, the makers of this movie have acknowledged how weird it is that a large human sized bunny man is hitting on an American right now. It seemed like a good idea on the set, but then later we like, yeah. There's the moment where he is, he's helping out and he's hopping

along and he goes, Oh, those pellets behind me, I'll clean those up. And I'm like, I don't want to joke in this about the Easter bunny shitting all over the floor of the factory. So that's not okay. And based on his size, those pellets have to be huge. They would be, I mean, they'd be the size of ostrich eggs. They'd be a stock soccer balls horrible. The size of a giant squid's eye, like horrible. But the, but the bloops, the bloops really gave me the idea that Tim, that Tim Allen was kind of like the king of that set and was just kind of doing whatever he, I don't know. I didn't, I, I don't know what, maybe I'm reading again too much of this, but it felt like there was a real power imbalance in some of those bloops, but anyway. All right.

Well, now, you know, what we do, we judge it. We give our final judgments. We don't just judge it, we Ryan hold it. Yeah. We're good. We're good. This is a good bad movie, a bad bad movie, a movie kind of like, I want to put this in context for myself.

The first Santa Claus is- Where does it fit into your life, the first Santa Claus is a weird sour movie that in a way that you may not recall and has a lot of stuff that I don't like about, you know, making fun of the new dad. Forget about the therapy stuff, just like for the health of your son, he's not treating Judge Ryan Hold very well, but it works kind of in spite of itself. It has a clear premise and by the end, sure, fine, whatever, the Santa Claus. What you're saying is not since Judge Ryan Hold was walked in on well masturbating. Did has he been this embarrassed on screen? Exactly. Santa Claus too actually is probably my choice for if you're watching it ironically

because it despite it being the longest one, it kind of moves more sprightly than this one did. And it has some really wacky doodle stuff in it, but you're like, why is this in a Santa Claus movie? But I still honestly might give this a marginal good bad. It's just so dumb and bright and it doesn't stick around that long. And it's really just a bunch of stuff that happens. It's amazing how it's really just a bunch of stuff that happens. It's amazing how little movies are just the most stuff that happens. No, but this is like, no, like usually the stuff

has some relation to the stuff that came before it. Whereas this just seems to be like jumbled stuff. But I kind of still dug it as a bad movie. But what do you guys have to say, Stewart? What do you think? Well, I'm gonna say it's a bad, bad movie. It, I mean, it, it obviously, I just saw Dan's self regard crumble when you said that. No, but I'm like, there's a certain, I don't know, like it's, like it's, I'll, hopefully,

forget that I ever saw it. It, I mean, it's just still like slim and like silly and kind of just slides off the brain right. Slemen silly sounds great to me. I don't know. Like, I mean, maybe if I had seen the previous installments, it would have captured the magic for me. I do want to point out you guys just came up with you guys just came up with two great Stephen King bad guy names, jumble stuff and slim

and silly. Yes. I'm going to, I'm also going to say a bad bad. I think frankly, if you, if you, if your kids love Christmas, you could sit in front of this movie and it wouldn't and leave the room and they'd be fine. But I think it's not worth a grown up watching, both either for a genuine, genuine enjoyment or insincere, ironic enjoyment. There's just, there's so much, there's so much other even Christmas stuff that you could watch for those kinds of enjoyments. It does, it just really feels like a movie that where everyone's kind of go, everyone

except maybe Tim Allen is going through the motions and he seems to really like playing Santa Claus some of the time and other times, be not really enjoy it. And I kind of would rather watch a documentary about the making of the Santa Claus 3. That was like really open and on, like the some kind of monster about Santa Claus 3. Like I'd like to see that more than I'd like to watch the movie.

Alonso, what about you? You've seen every Christmas movie as the stack up for you. Uh, believe me. I'm still working my way through it. It is a giant genre as just like songs. And there is thankfully no one has made the Christmas movie yet, but I'm sure they will. One of these days.

I think this is a bad, bad movie. I think the first one is a lot of fun. And I mean, yes, it is kind of, you know, I say it's maybe one of the best of the kids movies about a overworked, you know, middle manager. But this one is just, is so frenetic. Like this, it's one of those films where you can tell, like, okay, we're going to lose the kids if we don't pack every second with like noise and things falling down and running around crazy. Blah. There's so many cartoon sound effects.

Yes. And dubbed into scenes like, boy, I'm crazy. And I'm very impressed for that. If that's your intention, I mean, hiring Martin Short was the right call because he is great at doing that, like constantly doing stuff. Yeah. And the thing is, I mean, I love Martin Short, but I think so much of, you know, the thing that he brings to a project, it does ultimately kind of come down to the material.

And so like, he's giving all the Martin Short sauce that you want, but in the service of a really dumb script, I think. And so, yeah, I think this is, you know, we talk about like three quills as being like where the fatigue is really setting in. And I, this one, it's kind of like, where else is there left to go for this franchise? Of course, you know, jokes on me. It's a TV show now. TV show, that's the only answer. They decided to add even more of it to, I mean, it really, this is a strange moral to take

from the Santa Claus three of the escape claws, but it makes me even more enamored of the recent Planet of the Apes trilogy, which managed to like kind of up the ante with each movie in an exciting room. Yeah, how many other series? How many other series? Third movie in a series is still good. I mean, there's that, there's the evil dead movies.

Ninja three, the domination. That's true. Yeah, sure. I mean, well, that's what they finally realized. Halloween three season of the witch. Yeah, Ninja Turtles, three turtles in time. Yeah, of course. Yeah. I'm if you want to wait the host of Maximum Film. I'm a lot of D'Arealdy. Also the host of Maximum Film. And I'm Dreak Clark yet another host of Maximum Film. Every week we host Settle Up.

Usually with an illustrious guest and we talk about films. We have film news. We have film quizzes. We answer your film questions. It's like the maximum amount of film talk. That's why we call it Maximum Film. Maximum Film! Maximum Film.

Maximum Film, the movie podcast that's not just a bunch of straight white guys, new episodes weekly on MaximumFund.org. It could happen to you. You're all grown up now. A professional adult with diverse interests and hobbies, and one of those hobbies is video games. You just can't help it. They're so good now.

If that's you, we're here to tell you you are completely normal. I'm Maddie Myers. I'm Jason Shire. And I'm Kirk Hamilton, and together we form Triple Click, a podcast about video games. If you think you might be a person who likes video games, we hope you'll give Triple Click a listen. Triple Click, new episodes every Thursday on Maximum Fun. episodes every Thursday on Maximum Fun. Our show today is sponsored by Microdose Gummies. Microdose Gummies deliver a perfect entry-level doses of THC that help you feel just the right

about of good. You've probably heard about Microdosing. Lots of people are doing it, including this guy, Dan McCoy, who has tried the Microdose Gummies from Lumilabs, I've used them and enjoyed them. And they have helped me relax, sleep, sort of just be generally kinder towards the world. Hey, microdoses available nationwide. To learn more about microdosing THC code at microdose.com and use code, flop that's F-L-O-P to get free shipping and 30% off your first order.

Links can be found in the show description, but again, that's microdose.com code flop, Elliott. Thank you, Dan. We are also sponsored by HelloFresh. That's right. It's that time of the year, time to cozy up and save money by cooking at home. Come on, restaurants. We can do what you do.

This is the perfect time to experience the delicious taste and unparalleled convenience of Hello Fresh. If you're not familiar with Hello Fresh, use what you do. You subscribe to it. Check Save Money off of your holiday to-do list, and that's it. Well, maybe I should explain a little bit more.

Hello, Hello Fresh. Since you sent the ingredients you need in the mail to make great meals. I've used it myself. My family has really enjoyed it. I've really enjoyed the food. It's come, the ingredients do come fresh. They taste really good.

And they help someone like me who does not like cooking and also hates measuring things to get the best out of my kitchen instead of throwing away money on the food services industry. You know what I'm talking about? Stuart, food and drink services. No, thanks. Who needs them? Hello fresh. 25% cheaper than takeout and less expensive than grocery shopping and it offers vegan recipes in the menu every week with made without animal products of any kind. It does and

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That's hellofresh.com slash flop 65 and code flop 65 for 65% off plus free shipping. and And this message is from right, Nate Orion, Josh and Targaryen. And they say, dear Stu, we're commandeering the voice of your fave flapper to wish you a very merry holiday name withheld and a happy 2023. We know that it's been a hard year, but you're a delight to be around,

and we love you as much as you love elves and the calendar of Harptose. And that's a lot. Lovely message. That is very sweet. I like it. You put a lot of energy into that. I like it. Yeah. It says sweet as it is incomprehensible to me. I like it. Yeah. It says sweet as it is incomprehensible to me. Yeah. Yeah. Happy holidays to you, recipients.

A-N-U! A-N-U! You know, a thing that we do on this podcast is, is, is answer letters from listeners. Yeah. Why not? Why don't we jump into that? Just for a change. Let's do it. Um, let's do it. Grip it and rip it. That's what I say. I don't know that. But, uh, yeah, you don't want to rip it and then grip it because it's just harder to grip something. There's some

rips. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This first one is from Alan Lassley with Held who writes, Mark and if, right, have you seen my movie, the same, the same as three. I'm not going to say I do. Movie Alan Arquand I don't blame it for withholding. If you had a sandwich named after you as many celebs eventually do, what would you want it to be? Owners points if I can make and take it to work to eat and or bug you on Twitter about my attempts to recreate them. Many thanks. Alan last name withheld. Alan, I'm not, you know, here's what here's the thing.

I'm not going to try and make it about my personality. I'm just going to give you what I think will be a good sandwich. Yeah, that's what he's asking for. All right. I get, I mean, you're kind of challenging him in a way that is not a challenge. Dan McCoy. Yeah, let's see. What's the Dan McCoy?

You're going to get, you're going to get some. You're going to get a little like Chabata roll, like a sort of mid size one, you're gonna slice that up. Maybe toast for a little. Maybe. Put some. Hey, you're the boss. Put some olive tap and not on it.

You lost me. Some prosciutto. Okay, I'm back. Some arugula. No thanks. Maybe a little like sprinkling of balsamic vinegar or some lemon juice to get some acid in there. And hey, you can throw a little bit of provolone on there if you want. I like that you're giving so many options. You're not directing people. It sounds like it's not a man. It's a family of sandwich that is sort of like it's customizable.

It's like the Mr. Potato Head sandwich. Which normally is just a piece of bread, a Mr. Potato Head and then another piece of bread, not a satisfying sandwich. Oh, yeah. So, man, obviously, if you're going to do a sandwich based on me, you probably want to be tied in with my a lot of what I like to eat, right? You want to think you're eating like a steward. So, let's see, we're going to start with a layer of almonds. Yep, then a hardy scoop of protein powder on that shit vegan protein powder can handle the lactose.

And that shit vegan protein powder can handle the lactose. Then a couple of dried mangoes on top, a smear of almond butter. And then let's see, I don't eat a lot of bread anymore, but if I were, I would probably sandwich all that between two slices of a toasted almond, two slices of a toasted blueberry bagel, I think. Yep. Okay. Interesting. So a blueberry bagel, I think. Yep. Oh, okay. Interesting. So a blueberry bagel.

You got a lot less healthy at the end. I got a big one. I don't need a lot of bread. Is that not healthy for you? Should I cover the whole thing with maple syrup? It's not healthy. Should I wrap it all up in like a lettuce wrap or something, Dan? It's good.

You just wrap it in fruit roll ups. Yeah. What you want to do is you're going to freeze some sheet lard and oh wow. I guess you can do that. Okay. So that's two sandwiches out of the way. Okay. Either with the Elliott Kale and you got two, you got two options.

I mean, the sandwich I go to now, usually is a pastrami sandwich, but that's kind of boring. There's already a name for that. It's probably called the Sid Caesar or something like that. So when I was at the sandwich I would get for lunch when I worked at the Daily Show, I'd get turkey pastrami with pickles on it. And then I would have them toast the bread

so it would not be totally mushy. That's a simple sandwich. That's fine. Even simpler, the sandwich that I would have as a child, where it's just Hebrew National Salami on bread. That's all you have to do. Just like the original Earl of sandwich said, just give me a piece of meat, some bread on it, make it Hebrew National Salami. No other kind of Salami will do. And you're not going to be able to find it at a lot of places. So that's why I'm calling this the Hidden Aliuk Adeland sandwich. You got to find a place that serves the right kind of salami.

Alonso, what about you? So yeah, I was like, I was thinking, well, the sandwich thought I usually get it a deli is already out of deli, so I don't need to, you know, so that's how, like, if I wanted to make up something that was gonna have my name on it, this would not be like an easy take to work sandwich, but it would be a great make it for me in a kitchen restaurant,

especially because now your kitchen is gonna smell like this and not mine. It would be fried baloney with Swiss cheese melting between the pieces of the fried baloney while they're hot. On toasted Texas toast with a thick slather of dukes mayonnaise and maybe some red onion. Oh, that sounds good. Oh, that sounds like four delicious sandwiches you can eat. I waited a lifetime for somebody to ask me what my celebrity sandwich would be though. So thank you, Alan, less thing with hell. I mean, I love that you put so much thought into not just what's on it, but how you would

assemble it and like that you're interlacing the cheese with the meat and everything like that. That's how it gets all melty. It's great. Yeah. Yeah. It's like the people who got mad at subway because they weren't layering the, the, the, the stuff on the sandwich in the way that made the best use of the surface area. And they had a big campaign to have them testulate the stuff they were putting on the, on the sandwiches. Yeah. That, that was the biggest PR issue Subways have ever had, right? It was the biggest subway otherwise, has had a sterling brand, no issues with themselves or their spokespeople. Yeah, bread that smells artificial and tastes worse.

This is made from the stuff that's in yoga mats. I mean, you're talking to people who used to work in an office that was right next to a subway. Yeah, like above a subway, like basically. Yeah, but I mean, in New York for all of those subways, right? Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah, it's a subway. Yeah, like above a subway, like basically, I mean, in New York, all of a sudden, subways, right? Yeah. That's a good point.

Yeah, it's the, yeah, the, but it is, it is funny to have a source. I was like, I lost a lot of weight eating subway sandwiches. Like, yeah, by, you could take a couple bites and throw it away because you don't want more of it. The prospect of not eating suddenly seems more attractive. Anyways, this episode is brought to you by some way. Whoa, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, oh, by some way. We have another letter.

It's from Eli lasting with health. Eli Roth. Hopefully it's not Eli Lilly. Who writes? Hello. Anyway, this episode is also brought to you by Eli Lilly. Oh no. Hello, peaches.

Last night my wife and I decided to watch so I married an ax murderer on to be for the first time in some 25 years to see if it lived up to our memories. Probably not. And a couple of things really stood out. First of all, it was very heavily set in San Francisco with all of the cliched sites and neither of us remembered this. But more importantly, it came in at a tight 133, which I think is due to the use of not one, but two montages to yada yada yada over all the relationship developments, which leads me to my question. Our movie is longer these days because these cheesy montages have gone

out of style. I don't think that's why movies are longer, but I also don't have a better answer. Well, Dan, you just, you just saw Avatar yesterday, right? So why is that movie so long? Is it because there's no montages of them? I assume, I assume training to ride fish flying fish or something, you know? I mean, they're, well, I mean, they do train to ride fly fish, but it's not a montage. I mean, I was just watching the first one yesterday to prepare for learning the way of water. And there were a ton of montages and that one too. Yeah, there's not a

critique. Not of the same kind of type that I think that it being talked about here where it's like literally like a pop song plays and there's one scene of like, you know, someone getting something on their nose and laughing about it. And then add more pop songs skipping by the water or whatever the fuck they do in movies. It's hard to answer that question in December because all the movies are really long now because it's a one season. And you know, it's like, you are not going to be taken seriously. If you are under 215, the Academy won't even look at you. you know, it's like, you are not going to be taken seriously if you are under two 15. The Academy won't even look at you, you know. That's I was watching, I watched Tar the other night.

That's a long. It's a long one. And there's part of me that's like, I don't know if we needed so many scenes of her pulling her suitcase from one place to another, but at the same time, it provides kind of a little breather between the scenes of her being a horribly abusive person. Yeah. I wouldn't argue against the length in tar because I think that that is all sort of cumulative effect. Like part of the effect is, I wouldn't even argue against it in the way of water probably.

I mean, it's a little long, but that builds up so much like care for the characters before they get into the final fight. Like that's the thing that even though way of water is like, I liked it a lot. It's just it's a tight 184 minutes. I liked it a lot. It's still like one of, it's lower down on my like list of camera and film. It's but I still liked it. But James Cameron still has the ability to like, everything he's doing is, is to make you really

like want to hiss the villains and cheer at the end. Like the pay office is good. I would say that in general movies are probably longer because I would guess that a lot of it has to do with now they feel like, oh, we got to give people their money's worth. Like the way that streaming is so big now, they're like, we have to make this a movie. We have to make it worth your time. Well, that's what I was going to say is partly movie tickets have gotten so expensive, and it's so much effort to go to the movies now. If you have anything, like if you're a Dan McCoy or a Stewart Wellington, there's nothing holding you back, but like for a lot of people, not all people, but a lot of people, it's a big effort to go to the movies. So you kind of feel like

if you, I was, we were watching a Christmas story the other day because Sammy had never seen it. And I was like, they don't, I feel like there's no movies out like that anymore, but I feel like if I took my family of the movies, that's a hundred bucks if we buy any food. And then to see a movie like a Christmas story, I might be like, well, I just spent $100 to watch,

you know, something very fun, but like very light, you know. But I also think so many of the movies that come out now, the big ones at least, are in that are in the Marvel mold of like we're also going to service other, other things related to this. And like I haven't seen the new Wakanda movie yet, but it's hard for me to imagine that there's a real justification for it being like two hours and 40 some minutes long, except that there's so much that I assume they have to service in that universe, you know. I don't know. The other thing you might think, I mean, I think the black panther movies so far have kind

of been their own neighborhood of the MCU in terms of having similar to Wakanda. And thank you. Yeah. They are under their own dome, if you will. And so yeah, it's not like a whole ton of like, oh, and the Avengers are doing blah, blah, blah, blah. Then why is it so long? Again, I haven't seen it. It's a very stirring memorial. There's a lot going on. Okay. I mean, there, but there's also like, I've seen solemn meditations on lost. They're not that long, but I guess they don't

have. I guess it wasn't that much loss. Yeah, like, yeah, movies are getting longer. If I had gone to the movie theater and decision to leave was not over two hours long, would I feel like I was cheated? Probably not. And it's picking up camera. I mean, it used to be this was not considered a selling point. I remember when Paramount actually put out a thing saying that Titanic was two hours and 75 minutes to fool people in the thinking that it wasn't

longer than three hours. And then of course, it became a giant hit anyway, but maybe it's Titanic's fault. Actually, that all movies are long now. I don't know. Well, that's, I think that actually is. I mean, there were a few very tremendous. It's very, very tremendous. It's very, very tremendous.

I mean, James Cameron's movies are all over now. Yeah, but like their tremendous hits like Titanic and Avengers in game, you know, that are these Lord of the Rings movies, like they're very long movies and people are like, Oh, I guess that's what people like. Well, and you know what? And it's another, it's another ripple effect. And there's a number of these from the fact that there's fewer small movie houses and more big chain multiplexes where it used to be a movie couldn't be too long because

it ran, it cut into the number of showings you could do during a day. And but if, but like if you can find screens. Yeah. If you can run Avatar and five screens, then why not make it three hours long? Cause they're all it's you can you have infinite time. I remember when when multiplexes started and a lot of the thing was like, now you can have the screen some screens for the big movies and some screens for the little. Like, what have we displayed all the big movies with the same kind of philosophy

that is hollowed out every industry in the United States of America. What are the three of the three of the three? We didn't stream anything. It's like it's the idea of like, okay, I'll get us, I'll get this fountain soda. No ice please, wink. Because that ice is just taking a valuable real estate. Let's slow down. In this case, the ice are the smaller art house movies that actually make you think.

That add the chill. Kind of like the cool ice storm. Okay, well, let's move on to the the final segment where we recommend movies that we've seen that maybe would be a better use for these dwindling hours than Santa Claus three. Hard to imagine that's possible. I'm, you know, it's going to recommend Avatar. That being said, I mean, it is the thing I saw recently that I enjoyed the most, but I don't think it needs my help.

So that being said, I'm gonna. Yes, it does. It does, yeah. I'm gonna do a more qualified recommendation of a thing I enjoyed, but you know, wasn't over the moon about. I just watched the adult swim u-log thing that was put out that was, it starts out like a normal

u-log as one might have on a streaming service. And then I don't want to spoil the mini bizarre directions it goes into. It was directed by the person who made too many cooks, which will give you an idea. I will say that it works better as a bizarre unexpected TV experiment than like a movie in its own right, which is fair because that's what it is. I think at an hour instead of 90 minutes, it may have played better for me and it touches on some uncomfortable, like it gets pretty like extreme and touches on stuff that actually could be related to real life trauma. I don't wanna like get too specific

because, you know, the whole point of it. It does into history in a way, yes. Yeah, I don't wanna ruin anyone's surprises, but I would say that there's some material that it handles more globally than the material warrants, but if you don't- That's a surprise coming from adult swim. Yeah, exactly. But if you don't mind that kind of like goofball, like, horror stuff in your horror

movies, then that's fine. It's a very interesting thing. If nothing else, it's clever. That's what I would say. Stuart, speaking of movies that are probably a little bit too long, I'm going to recommend a movie that is probably a little too long that just dropped on Netflix recently. It's called The Big Four. It's a big old Indonesian action movie from writer director. I can't say his name, Timo Tiahanto, who made the night comes for us, which is a super bloody badass action movie. And he made some shorts in like the VHS series. This is a big action movie. It's also an action comedy, so it's filled with tons of very silly goofy jokes. It's kind of reminiscent of a series that I recommended recently, recently,

some time on this podcast, the Fable series, which are also like balls of the wall action movies that also have a ton of weird silly stuff. It's also clocking in at over two hours, which is unnecessary. But if you're looking for a fun over the top, very bloody action comedy, the big four is a blast. I'm going to recommend I and I was talking about movies are too long or whatever. I'm also recommending a movie that's over two hours. This is ridiculous. What are we doing? We're playing right into Hollywood.

I mean, I'm not complaining. I like long movies. Oh, okay. I have less time in my life to spend on movies. So actually, I like them when they're long too. Anyway, this is a movie. I saw recently that I like long movies. Oh, okay. I have less time in my life to spend on movies. So actually, I like them when they're long to anyway, this is a movie I saw recently that I liked a lot. I don't know why, but my last few recommendations, I feel like have all fallen into the category of women going for what they want in different ways. And this one is no exception. This is a movie called Mahanagar, which means the big city and it's

a Satyajat Ray movie. And about starting Matabi Mukherjee, I think I'm pronouncing it. Hopefully, okay. She plays a housewife in the 50s in Calcutta. And her husband's job is not paying well. They support themselves and also their son and also the husband's parents and the husband's sister, I believe. And she ends up having to take a job as a saleswoman, and that leads to complications in her family,

but also complications in her feelings about herself, and also kind of the way she interacts with the world, having this experience with the professional world. And it was a movie that I really loved, and it felt very real to me, and the conflicts that come up are not the like straightforward black and white. I can't have a wife that works.

This is, I'm the man of the house type of thing. The characters feel like real, kind of believable characters and the ending I found genuinely very, moving and very lovely and full of love between the characters and the film holds for the characters and the film too. And the performances are great in it.

And there's a real kind of like lightness and humor to a lot of it considering it's a movie about a woman getting a job at a time when women don't necessarily work and da da da. Like it doesn't, it's not a soapbox movie. It's very much a movie about people. And I really enjoyed it. So I loved it. And it's on HBO Max until they pull all the such a great movies off of HBO Max. So go see there. It's the big city. I think I think they're shooting to be the first streaming service to in fact have no content previously mentioned. It's it's it's great. It's like they're like, what if we only made tax

write offs? What if all of our money came from tax write offs? It's nuts. The numbers are working. What can I tell you? It's weird to be living at a time when there are so many very valuable brand names that are self dismantling themselves like that and Twitter where you're just everyone it's like a like a you know, what if we sold ourselves for parts? Exactly. Like, like, how much is this arm worth rip it off me doing? Yeah, I mean, it was like what like a year or so ago when only fans was like, we're not going to allow pornography anymore. And then I'm almost immediately we're like, whoops. I mean, if only other services took only fans. Yeah, for like, wait, okay, that was a mistake. Let's turn the boat back around. Hold on, everybody. Now we're calling it only porn. We got to be up late. We gotta play hard to watch.

Alonso, do you have any recommendations for us? I do. I was gonna recommend spirited, but it's a little late for a Christmas movie and it's awfully long also. So I thought, how long is it? It's a little over two. I bet it's a musical and that's loud.

You know, that's fine. And it should be that. But anyway, so I'm gonna thought I would go for a movie that I really, really liked in 2022 that I feel like kind of win under many folks of radar and is also only 98 minutes. And you guys may well recommend it at some point and forgive me if I'm repeating myself, but confess Fletch. Oh, yeah. The return of the Fletch franchise to the big screen barely, it kind of went straight

to streaming, I think, with John Ham stepping in as the iconic wise acre investigative reporter created by Gregory McDonald. It's directed by Greg Matola who did the day trippers and adventure land and a lot of like I think a lot of episodes of rest of development. Ham totally gets this character and it's a funny movie. It's the kind of like breezy crime comedy aimed at adults that we just got all the time in the 70s and 80s and nobody makes any more. And it would be nice as they did.

And this one is a really good example of that. Marsha Gaye Hardin has a supporting role as a Portuguese Italian contest who constantly calls him flesh, who is a, he's scarily funny, every throughout the film. This has been a very good year for Marsha Gayhard. And if you, uh, if you watched her on that, um, the Netflix show with, with, uh, Neil Patrick Harris or on CBS's, uh, uh, so help me Todd. But anyway, yeah, confess, Fletch, it's a hoot of fun, uh, ensemble cast of people and just like breezy and zippy and real entertaining.

Yeah, you rarely see Marsha gay harden just to like get to be that goofy. It is just like unleashed. There's a lot of fun. There's yeah, that's a movie that since I've seen it, I haven't rewatched it yet, but I keep thinking like, maybe I just want to rewatch that. Yeah, that's flat. Yeah, it's got that. So comfortable. thinking like, maybe I just want to rewatch that. That's flat. Yeah, it's got that. It's a comfort vibe.

I think part of what is like that, the flesh character is goofy, but not like a big character. So you can surround him with like big side characters that are funny. Like what's your name from a barben star who's really great. Any moment below. Yeah, she's fucking great in it. Yes, absolutely. That was a lot of fun. Well, she's fucking great in it. Yes, absolutely. That was a lot of fun.

Well, I haven't seen it yet. I only watch old black and white movies from other countries. Sorry, folks. I thought, so why are you mad about movies being long like these days? Rolls right off your back. I just did my list of movies I saw for the first time in 2022 and the big city was one of them and it's great. Oh, it's really great. Yeah. Well, speaking of things that were a lot of fun, it was a lot of fun to have you on Alonso. See? That's the kind of smoothness that Ali comes from doing the show for 15 years. And it comes and goes. Yeah. Segway King. Alonso, is there anything that you want to plug before we do our sign off stuff?

Sure. Yes. Please, as Ellie mentioned at the top of the show, check out my Christmas movie books. I have another book project that I'm working on now that'll be happening in 2024. So more on that later, you can read myself at the rap. And of course, check out my podcast, Linoleum Nife, which I've been doing for a mere 12 years with my husband Dave White, also breakfast all day with Kristi Lemire.

I'm a frequent contributor to Deck the Hallmark and here on the Maximum Fund Network, of course, you can catch me on Maximum Film with If You Want Away and Dre Clark. So please do. And it's always a delight to hang out with you guys and do the show and wishing everybody a very happy holiday. Thank you. Thank you.

Thank you very much. Thanks for joining us. There are a lot of great podcasts that you involved with. Linoleon Knife is a particular favorite of mine. And I feel like for any listener who hasn't tried it, you should. And if you like the idea, if you like that this episode had a mix of talking about a movie and talking about a sandwich that you could make, I feel like that's the kind of promise Linoleon Knife fills constantly. I feel like it's like, I want to know what Dave's been cooking and I want to know what movies they

watch. They've got about them. That's just good descriptions. I never heard of. Well, as for us, we are, as Alonzo mentioned, on the Maximum Fun podcasting network, go to MaximumFun.org, check out Alonzo Show and other shows, some of them are funny, some of them tell you stuff, some of them do both. One more do you want. Thank you to Alex Smith, our producer. He is at Howell Daudy on Twitter, although these days I'm like, should we even be telling people what our Twitter handles are?

Is that the thing we want to do? Who cares? But as long as, you know, it's happening, we'll just let you know, and maybe we'll check in every once in a while and say hi. Anyway, that was a real side tangent at the very end of the episode. But for the flop, that kind of that kind of elegance only comes with doing the podcast for 15 years. Stuart's nodding. I'm Stuart Wellington of the plot plot. Oh, I'm class. Damn, McCoy. Pod class. See? I'm I'm Ellie Kaylin. I'm not even going to try to say the name of the podcast because I'll mess it up. And we've had. Oh, we, what? This is your album. Oh, I want to start.

Oh, my God. Hi, I've got a lot of drowly. Thank you for this thing. Oh, man, you know, I'll take the heat on that one. I kind of mess everything up. No, no, no, no, we went over this earlier, but I had one instruction. I mean, it shows how it shows what a natural fit and what a great guest you are for us, that it's like, it's like we need a guest who's great at what he does, but also messes up sometimes

we mess up all the time. Make us look normal. Done. I feel like anyone who comes in is too professional. Make us look terrible. It just confuses us. Talking about you, Roman Mars, being so good at what you do anyway. Before the flop us, that's been us.

We'll talk to you next time. We don't have to do it again, Dan. Bye. Yeah, just tell Alex to like fade that last bit. Kind of out of all that. Oh. Oh. Oh.

Oh. Oh. Oh. Oh. No, but guys, I'm about to drink this water-loo pineapple-flavored celtzer. Is it going to have a positive effect on my loads, Elliott? Based on the erotic fiction I've read, yes, probably.

If you were an actor. And then it will pineapple maybe, but I think given that most fruit-flavored seltzer just sort of waved in front of a picture of that fruit, I think. Yeah, I told them he would not make a fruit move, it seemed a fizzy. But get back to us later and let us know.

Yeah, again, this is only based on my reading of the erotic literature from my very specific fetish. That, of course, is the Radist Buie series about a rat meat cooked food and then ejaculates onto it. So we always eat fresh fruit to a taste better. That's the secret ingredient. And they can't let the restaurant critics know or the health department because that would be, they'd have to be shut down a restaurant

or the customers to that matter. No one's happy about the arrangement. I'll just be the rat. And the rat loves it. But over the flavor profile. Maximumfund.org, comedy and culture. Artist-owned audience supported. and audience supported.