The Flop House - Ep. #419 - Cat Person, with Hallie Haglund

Episode Date: March 9, 2024

Stuart was antipodes-bound, for his Australian rambles, when we taped this one, but fear not! In his absence we recruited Hallie Haglund, noted STAR OF THE SHOW to discuss Cat Person with us, and thank god we did, because left to our own devices, we doubt that two dudes would be quite as effective at exploring the dissection of gender w/r/t hetero dating relationships that Cat Person brings to the table (straight from the hit New Yorker short story of the same name). Did we do it justice? Only one way to find out!Do you live in or around BROOKLYN, NEW YORK or OXFORD, ENGLAND? We’ve got upcoming LIVE SHOWS for youWikipedia page for Cat PersonRecommended in this episode:Waitress: The Musical (2023)One, Two, Three (1961)The River (1951)Cancel your unwanted subscriptions by going to RocketMoney.com/FLOP. Head to Squarespace.com/FLOP for a free trial, and when you’re ready to launch, use offer code: FLOP to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.”

on this episode we discuss Cat Person. Not to be confused with Cat People, which is multiple Cat Persons or Hat Person, the story of Jimi Rekwai. I don't get that. I love Hallease. Look. You know, because the question requires that big hat.

Get a hat. Oh, Hat People. Yeah. Hat Person. Yeah. It'll make more sense when you hear it later when you listen to it okay Hey everyone, welcome to the Flop House. I'm Dan McCoy. My name is Elliot Kalen and joining us today we've got a very special guest. Hi, it's Allie Haglin.

That's right, the star of the show is here. Stuart is not. Apparently he had better things to do and Allie did not have better things to do. Empty schedule Haglin, so they call her. That's not, she's doing us. Wow, if you knew the back bends I've had to do to make this work into my schedule. Yeah, she's doing us a real favor.

Actually, I should say she's doing us a real favor and both of these two folks are doing me a real favor for reasons that may come up later in the episode. I have to travel abruptly. And so Halle and Dan are recording at night on a Sunday night. Halle had to rush to watch this movie during her family time, I assume.

And they are, they're really doing me a favor. So thank you. Halle got to rush to watch this movie during her family time. Oh, sorry. You got to take care of the kids. Got to be done, folks. Sorry. I got an important movie business.

Now Hallie, are you excited to be back? I call my husband, folks. Sorry. Because you don't know his name. Yeah. So Hallie, are you excited to be taking the reins as not a fourth co-host, but one of three, one of the three Clopsketeers. I've done this before, Elliot.

It's your first time stepping up to the plate. It has. See what happens, reaching the majors. It's been a long time. No, I think it hasn't been that long. I've just been replacing you, so you don't remember. Yeah. I don't know any of that.'ve just been replacing you so you don't remember. Yeah. I don't know any of that.

I wasn't there, so I don't know if it happened. No, but it has been a while. So Elliot doesn't listen to any episode he's not on. Usually, in the early days, we would have, we were bad about scheduling ourselves until the last minute and then we would often have a third person replacement. In this case, it's been a while since we've had one of us duck out,

but Stuart is off chasing kangaroos and kissing wallabies, I guess. He's- That's what they do. He's busy. And Hallie, I think, yeah, last time, I think you filled in for me like when I had children and things like that.

Oh yeah, no, it's since I've been in LA, I think. Yeah, so it was not anything as exciting as going to Australia, so I guess maybe that's why I blocked it out of my mind, yeah, no it's since I've been in LA. I think yeah, so it was not anything as exciting as going to Australia So I guess maybe that's why I blocked it out of my mind. Yeah Yeah, that's exciting. Yeah I hear don't isn't there a thing about how Koalas have like Chlamydia or something there. I only bring this up because you sexualized Australian animals I only bring this up because you sexualized Australian animals in your short introduction. So I wasn't, you know, I would never have gone there,

but I hope he's careful. No, that's true. And there's many reasons not to have sex with a koala. That's just one of them. Yeah, they can't give consent. That's another important one. Yeah. I'm just sort of gentle.

They've always got their babies on their backs, which just makes it weird. Yeah, yes, inappropriate in many ways. That's why the Australia Tourism Board, they have their slogan, G'day, don't do it, mate. It's got a picture of a sexy koala. Yeah.

So speaking of sexy animals, Cat Person is a movie that we watched. I mean, there's, I don't know if that's an animal, but you know. Now, but let's get into, this is a movie that was based on- What do we do on this podcast, Daniel? Okay, hold on. Well, yeah, sure. Let me set it up for new listeners who are coming in confused.

This is a weekly podcast. We release an episode every week on a Saturday morning. But what do we do on this weekly Saturday morning podcast? Aside from sell sugary cereals to kids. Well, two Saturdays in a month, we watch a bit. I go after these messages and then roll our heads. And our heads change, which we'll be right back. Yep. I guess people are age.

Remember that. But yeah, half the time this is a podcast where we watch a bad movie, then we talk about it. And by say bad, we haven't watched it before the show most of the time. It has been decided upon either critically or commercially. This is not a film for us, the viewing public, and we judge it for you. Sometimes it's just a movie that we think might be interesting to talk about. So we haven't seen the movie before we select them. Showing your hands a bit, fellas.

No, not in this case. All right. We don't have to talk about the off weeks because that's not what this is. In this week we watched the movie and it was Cat Person and it was based on a New Yorker short story that was probably the most talked about New Yorker short story since Shirley Jackson's The Lottery. Yeah, I think not since the secret life of Walter Middy has a New Yorker short story been adapted to film so quickly, I think.

Despite perhaps not being a natural fit for adaptation to film. Which the third act of the film really points out, as it points up, as we'll see. Yeah, we'll get into it. I think both Elliot, well, I don't want to spoil that. We'll talk about it when we make our judgments. Let's talk about this movie, what happens. Well, I want to say, so were you,

were either of you familiar with the story beforehand? Because I had, I read this story when it was a new story. Did you do that? Yes. Yeah, it was all over the internet at the time. People were like, you got to read the story. I mean, I read it in print in the pages of the New Yorker magazine. As did I. As did I. The way all New Yorker articles are meant to be read in pieces while on the toilet.

Exactly. Oh no. I was on the subway, you know, it's just like. New York's toilet. Exactly. Oh, no. I was on the subway, you know. It's just like- New York's toilet. I read it online despite having a subscription to the New Yorker that I cannot seem to shake. I don't know who's paying for it. I don't know how it happens. It gets delivered to my apartment weekly and I toss it away because like while I enjoy the magazine, you know, to just have a subscription

is inviting stacks of unread New Yorkers in a way that I cannot take. Wow, that's cool. I can't believe taking off my fanny pack list. It's great. Oh, she's getting down to business. In case she sounds different, she's now fanny pack list. Now, this might be the only play.

I'm a regular New Yorker reader, but I am about eight to nine months behind at any given time. I read them in order, because why not? I'm a dork. But this is as good a time as any to use the thing that I can't use anywhere else, which is the Seinfeld spec episode

that I dreamed a couple months ago that was all about the New Yorker, where Kramer starts getting a mysterious subscription to New Yorker at his apartment that he doesn't know how it got there, but he becomes enamored of the magazine and he decides he's gonna read it cover to cover every issue and Elaine is like,

yeah, but you gotta watch out for pile up. You're gonna have to do with pile up. He's like, what's pile up? You're never gonna catch up. You're gonna, it's gonna have pile up. And Kramer becomes, he's like, no, I'm gonna defeat this pile. And so he has locked himself into his apartment

until he finishes all these New Yorkers and they keep coming and you can't stop it. And meanwhile, Banya gets a Shouts and Murmurs in and Jerry pretends it doesn't annoy him but he's so angry that he has to write a Shouts and Murmurs and he ends up stealing George's idea for a Shouts and Murmurs. And I had an idea for a scene where Elaine runs into David Remnick at a party and suggests a New Yorker moratorium

that they stop publishing the magazine for a year so everyone can catch up to it. And this is, I woke up and I was like, oh, it's too bad. The only show this works on went out the air years ago. It's a pretty good spec. That's like incredibly well developed. I feel like you should just write it.

Maybe I'll just write it. Maybe I'll do it just for fun. But yeah, this is the kind of stuff I dream. Either I have dreams that are someone is chasing me, or it's an entire story that I can then write down. So what's it going to be tonight? Let's find out. I've been having all these dreams where I speak,

where I'm speaking to people in Portuguese, which is very weird. I mean, do you speak Portuguese? Does that make sense? But not very well, especially now. It's like I'm trying to speak Spanish, and I keep speaking Portuguese. And I don't know where they're coming from.

Last night, I dreamt I went to Manderley again. So we all had weird dreams. No, but Dan, that's for the previous Mrs. McCoy to do. Oh, OK. So let's talk about it. So Catperson, essentially, I would describe the story for the previous Mrs. McCoy to do. Oh, OK. So let's talk about it. So Catperson, essentially, I would describe the story, the original short story, as it's a depiction of a,

it's a short story. It's a depiction of a moment in a young woman's life where she kind of gets, falls into a relationship with an awkward older guy. She mishandles it, he's weird, and it just ends on a sour note, you know. And as Dan said, it's not necessarily the most adaptable to a film story because the thing that,

I liked that story, but the thing I found best about it was that it was like how kind of tenderly and delicately it handled a situation where two characters are awkward around each other and are making bad decisions around each other. Don't know how to be the people they wanna be. What did you guys think when you read it? I mean, did you like it?

Did you not like it? Dan, I know it reminded you of the way you've been when you fall in love with other guys. Yeah. Oh yeah. I mean, it is reminiscent. I mean, I think that any guy who reads it, any woman who reads it is probably like, oh, this reminds me of bad things

that happened to me and any guy reads it's like, shit, did I act like this at some point? I mean, the thing about the story is he doesn't sort of reveal it. He's weird and you understand why his feelings are heard, but he doesn't reveal himself as sort of bad until the end, which is kind of literally the punchline of the story in that it punches you in the stomach where he reveals that he can only deal with his sadness over this relationship by lashing out and calling her a whore. And this movie is kind of, I mean, we'll get into it, but it's weird to me that it reaches that moment. And then it goes further in a way that- They're like, okay, we've hit the act two point of no return, time to get to act three.

Yeah. And they feel like they need to sort of reset the ambiguity about it in a way that then leads the like both of them to behave in wildly illegal fashions in a way that sort of I don't know like they're trying to like spin out this like sort of Balance past the point at which like the plates have fallen off the table. I feel like but maybe we'll get into it Let's let's get into it. Let's talk about it. Okay. So, no, wait, Halle, what do you think? No, no, she, we don't need to hear about her experience is not relevant to this. What? Halle, what did you think of that original story?

I liked it. I thought I'm geared up for this conversation because I, I didn't actually, I think I kind of knew that this was like a bad movie in the sense that it would be an option for us to watch, but I don't really know why people defined it as a bad movie. And I'm sure that I'll, you know, well, let's not get ahead of ourselves. Let's talk, I know, I have some mixed feelings

about this movie too, we'll have to get into it. But okay, let's talk about the story. So I like the, I'll just say I liked the story when I read it. All right. The, we start with Margot. She's a young college student played by Amelia Jones from Coda. She works at a movie theater snack bar and where she's hanging out at her snack bar. We hear the audio from a trailer for a horror movie.

She's at a revival theater. A tall guy with a beard, yes, it's Nicholas Braun from Succession. He comes up and orders red vines, and she's kind of snarky about it, and he does not respond. Cut to a night sky, in text, we get that old chestnut that Margaret Atwood quote

about how men are afraid of women laughing at them, and women are afraid of men killing them, and they wait until the last, they wait so long to put Margaret Atwood's name up, as if the movie is considering claiming that as an original quote that they don't have to attribute to somebody. I thought they were going, I didn't think they were going to put her name. That was fascinating.

Yeah. It's almost like you can feel the person with the finger hovering over the button that says attribute quote to and he's like, all right. And then X and then and puts it and I say he could be a she, I don't know. Margot is walking home that night, she meets a stray dog. She does the thing most people would do and try to bring it into her dorm, but her RA very reasonably I think stops her

from bringing a stray dog into the dorm. This RA is presented as a real snob. Real B-I-T-C-H. Exactly. Clear that in this case she's doing it because it's going to storm outside and she just has a soft heart for like, she's not gonna keep this dog forever.

She's just like, hey, I'll take you in for it. This dog seems very gentle. It doesn't seem like it's gonna cause a lot of trouble. I think this is your general anti-animal sentiment. I'm not anti-animals. I just think when you're living in a place like a dorm, which is a communal setting, it would be different if it was an apartment building.

I think she's a hero for bringing this dog in from a storm. But in a communal place where you don't know if people are allergic to those animals, you don't know if Sam's gonna run around peeing and pooping all over the place, that's for the students to do, to pee and poop all over the place. That's not for the dogs to do.

Maybe this dog is really smart. That's called college. Maybe this is kind of like a goodwill hunting dog and the dogs can turn out to be a super genius, make all the other students feel bad, ruin the grade curve. We don't know that. We do now, because we watch the movie and we find out the secret of that dog.

But anyway, that night, Margot wakes up to hear a woman crying for help outside her door. The dog has killed the RA. There's blood all over the walls. It's a nightmare. She wakes up from a nightmare. And this is one of the first of many fantasy sequences in the movie. Guys, how did you feel about the fact that she's constantly going into fantasy fugue states,

like Brian Benben and Dream On, except instead of old TV clips, they're fantasies? I will say that there are points later on that take us inside her thinking that are fantasies that I find very effective. This sort of symbolic metaphorical dream stuff I could do without. Yeah, and it feels like it is a way to try to, the movie is constantly running with hints or thingyms of women in peril or women feeling like they're in danger

or it felt like it was a cheap way to get her to hear a woman crying out for help, you know? And for the audience to be like, oh, what's happening? You know, this is, I know this story and it's, I don't know. So I think that this scenario made less sense than some of them, but I feel like when the intention behind them is motivated by like, she's scared and she's like imagining how she could be threatened,

then it makes a lot more sense than, I don't know. Honestly, I feel like I probably would have written this piece of shit, so like I'm very defensive of it. No, I agree with you though. Like there's stuff when she's, you know, has fantasies of like how things could go wrong or there's stuff that's like her justifying maybe her feelings for this man who,

she's constructing a world that doesn't exist because she's supporting this romantic fantasy. Like both of those are effective. Here it's just like, okay, well, we just entered into the movie. What's going on? Why are you wasting time with a dog fantasy? You could say it's a thematic foreshadowing of her bringing something innocent, looking into her life,

and it maybe becoming a danger to her, except the danger, as we'll see, is it's hard to parse how much of that is actually real or not, and how much of it she's feeding into. And so it's anyway, it's very confusing. It was like, if this was tar, I'd be like, doesn't have to be a dream sequence. There's a killer dog, she just goes about her day, but the tone of this movie is a little different. So Margot's friend Taylor. So obsessed with Tar.

Look, not only is it a great movie, there are huge pits of it in the city we live in, you know? Just lying there, you can scoop it out for free. Oh yeah, just take a mug, bring your mug down to the pit, just give yourself a cup of tar, slurp it down. You know, gum up the works. You can really taste the dead mammoth. It's great. So, Margot has a friend, Taylor. Her friend Taylor has a B-story runner, I guess, where she is mad at the co-moderator of her

feminist online chat group, because it turns out he's actually a guy who was using, who's pretending to be a woman in order to be an ally, but he didn't know how or something. And Margot goes to her biology class. She becomes so fixated on an aunt colony, almost hypnotized by it, an aunt colony case that she startled when Professor Isabella Rossellini taps her on the shoulder and this is a character does not be in the movie, doesn't need to be in the movie totally pointless. I don't care if Isabella Rossellini is in the movie that's a net plus for me. I don't care what she's doing, I want her to be in every movie. But why did she why did she want to be in this movie?

Like Cha-ching. Yeah, she must have gotten paid like 90% of the budget must have been getting Isabella Rosalind. I mean, most of her role is giving a speech about how Aunt Queens choose their sexual partners, which she was gonna give that speech anyway. Oh yeah, I mean, she loves that, that's her jam. She does those videos about bugs having sex.

She's so great, I think she's amazing. Those don't pay the bills, so she's like, oh, you're gonna pay me to do it? But this is another case in which she set up to be like, there's all this Aunt Colony stuff about like, yo. Do you think she actually asked that to be like written into the movie? Because I kept wondering like, why does this archeologist have an Aunt Colony? That's a good point.

That made no sense. She seems to be either an archeologist, an anthropologist, or an entomologist, or all three. She's a triple threat. They go, oh,ologist, or an entomologist, or all three. She's a triple threat. They go, oh, Isabella Rossellini, she's a triple threat. Archaeologist, anthropologist, entomologist, she can do it all. If she's going to find a society of prehistoric cave ants that have tools, then her whole career makes sense. But you're right, she's just kind of a general college professor.

She just kind of teaches everything. Yeah, I mean, well, and she's all this ant stuff too, like ladled on top of the dog stuff that starts the movie. It's just like, you know, there's a lot of animal metaphors being tossed around. And you're making a very good point. Choose your lane and stay in it. Are you an ant movie or a dog movie? The movie, ants?

I mean, your title says you're a cat movie. Yes, exactly. Thank you, Dan. It's so confusing. This kind of, oh, we don't have to choose what kind of movie we are, with what kind of animal we deal with. This is the problem with Hollywood today.

Thank you, Dan, for finally putting a name to it. So, and she also, they examine the bones from a female sacrificial victim, which this is a movie that so many of the details tie into this theme of the fear of women for men that at a certain point I was like, is there anything else going on in this world? It seems like everything is all about this. And I can't tell if that's good writing or bad writing. What do you think? Food for thought? I mean, okay, so here's my thought. I thought, like, I'm curious because I kept being like, oh, like I'm wondering if this film was like more

on the nose than most films, or if it's like this makes you guys more uncomfortable. And so it's like just as on the nose as most films, but it's like, uh, stop hitting with us over the head. Like women are afraid of men and I'm like, yeah, we are guys. I mean, that's completely possible because my, you know, like my reaction to the cat person story was like, oh, this is good. I'm not sure why it's setting the world on fire.

And I think that's because I am not on that side of it. So like it doesn't speak to me in the same way. You know, so I could just not be a good audience for either the story or the movie. But the movie does seem a lot more muddled in what it's doing. And maybe we'll get into that as we go along. So that night at the theater, Red Vine's guy, we learned his name is Robert, comes back,

he snarky back to her and she fantasizes about going into the theater and sitting next to him. But she doesn't really, she just kind of looks at him. And after the movie, he tells her to give her his number and she does, even though in the moment she's like, why am I doing this? And there's a montage of them texting back and forth with each other for days. It's lots of banter over text. It's so fun.

They just love it. Taylor is like, stop texting so much. Don't get involved with him. But they're interrupted by their musical theater friends coming in to promote their production into the woods and they start singing into the woods. Here you go, Elliot. This is something that has nothing to do

with the theme of the movie. Just a little bit into the woods. This has nothing to do with the theme of the movie, just a little bit into the woods. This has nothing to do with the theme of young women maturing through their encounter with older possible predators. Yeah, sure. And it was one of those things where I was like, you know what, this movie is really tapping

into the frustration I felt going to a college that had a musical theater program where the musical theater students were constantly bursting into the songs from into the woods. So, and I mean, and rent at the time, it was a lot of rent, but also into the woods. So it was one of the things where I was like, is this good or is it bad or is it just that it's, it's reminding me of a thing I don't like that I experienced. I mean, I'd like to point out that in literally the previous episode, you burst into the song,

the title song from into the woods. Yeah, yeah, but I did it in a fun way. Yeah, I mean, I guess you also got the lyrics a little bit wrong, so you know, you proved your bonafides as not a theater dirt. Yeah, there you go. I think it was something like, into the woods we're going into those woods. Hey, check out the woods we're going into them, into those woods. You just forgot that they also go out of the woods before they go home before dark That's right. They do that into the woods and out of the woods and home for that's right also That's true. What about the ones who live in the woods like the sloths? There's not a lot known about the science still has to do a little work Unfortunately, as a Belarus Leni has not done that work yet in her multifaceted

career. She's working from smallest to biggest. She's like the Renfield of scientists. So one night, Robert brings some snacks to Margo at the Science Lab because she says she's so hungry with, I guess she has, I don't know if she's studying or if she has a job as a lab assistant. Yeah, very unclear. Another unclear just like, we'll put you close to Isabella Rossellini.

Yeah. And they kind of talk awkwardly once he gets there and Aunt bites Margot and Robert smashes it really loudly. And she's kind of scared, but she shows him the storage room where the sacrificial bones are. No, she doesn't show him. He just goes in. And then he says, what's this? Making her go in and look at what it is. Now let me say one thing. Going into a door and saying, what's this? Doesn't make you a creep unless Jack Skellington is a creep. Checkmate Hallie went into a door, said, what's this?

Everybody loved it. Yep. Years later, they're still selling stuff at Hot Topic commemorating the time that he went into a door and said, what's this? And said, what's this? Now that he did with that information, I don't totally approve of.

Yeah. I don't totally approve of stealing Christmas and came out with Santa Claus. Yeah, and I don't know, did the lady who lost her arm really come out on top in that? What's her name again? The doll lady? Sally.

Sally, exactly. I mean, she could sew it back on though. She's a doll lady. But she shouldn't have to, Dan. She shouldn't have to. No, I'm not referring to the arm I'm referring to. She just transferred her allegiance from the professor, mad scientist,

to Jack Skellington, who never seemed particularly interesting. No, it's true. He was not a good romantic interest. No, but at the very end, I mean, he still calls her a friend, but still. Yeah, he's more taken up by his new Christmas hobby than he is any interesting.

Ladies, if your man is more interested in stealing Christmas than you, kick him to the curb. He is not the man for you. Yeah. Find a man who looks at you. Why is this Santa always the Santa? Find a man who looks at you the way Jack Skellington looks at Christmas.

That's what I'm saying, ladies. Someone man wants to unlock all your riddles. Anyway, so that's right. he just wanders into the room. Thank you for correcting me. And she goes in after him and the door closes and locks. And she suspects him of closing the door to get her in there with him. She fantasizes that he attacks her,

but, and she starts to panic. And he slams the door open so hard that it smashes the ant case, killing the ant colony. Professor Isabella Rossellini is as shattered as the ant case. We don't see her again for the rest of the movie, I think. I think she comes in to Montage. But metaphorically, she's done with. She's dead.

Excelsior. And that night, she decided to join her ants in the God Hill. So Robert walks her to her dorm and she says, I'm leaving for break, but I want you to keep texting me. And he kisses her on the forehead. And then there's another lots of texting back and forth, montage. She takes the train home to her cartoonishly,

kind of type A wealthy family. And they're all curious about Robert and her mom, Hope Davis, who yes, I used to see on the subway all the time, tells her that finding a man means accepting discomfort and bullies her into performing a sexy duet of my heart belongs to daddy at her stepdad 60th birthday. This is one of the strangest moments.

Definitely, like what? Yeah, and the thing, and what's especially bad is, I mean, it's all, it's supposed to be awkward. It's not supposed to be like, yeah, that was a great performance. I loved it. You know, it's not singing in the rain where the songs are enjoyable to the audience,

but that the audience at his party is like hooting and hollering and catcalling. The whole thing is so uncomfortable. It's supposed to be, but still. Yeah. Look, it's effective. It's a little confusing to me because so okay. She seems very sexy, right? Yeah. That's confusing. I'm confused by my arousal.

Sorry, I didn't understand. No, it's gross. It makes you think about this how baked into society. This is the idea is like, oh, I'm going to sing a sexy song about how my heart belongs to daddy. She's literally singing it to her father. To her stepfather. Yeah.

And so that about younger women and older men and all the end, how deeply that's baked in. Going back. Yes. No, no, no, no, no, no. Cause this is where I wanna put my foot down. Cause I do feel like actually this like taps into like a lot of really uncomfortable young women's experiences.

But like this seemed insane. Like I do not believe that this would ever actually happen, that a mother would ask her daughter to perform this like sexy dance number for her stepfather, and that she would be like, like, I wasn't actually joking, but like- I mean, I think Ellie just- There was not enough,

there was not enough performed discomfort in this scene to like make it make sense to me. I was like, what is going on? I mean, once she agrees to do it, they put their all into it. She is like, you know what, in for a penny, in for a pound, I'm gonna get every,

she's like, she's like Don Draper's wife singing, Zubi, Zubi, Zoo. Like she's just wants everybody to be hot and heavy in the room, which mean, I know that. It seems like a strange choice. I know that Elliot has seen several videos, you know, predicated on a similar scenario happening. I don't, which I don't, I don't like this.

I don't want to know. No, not a fan. No, thank you. Anyway, so the, I'm not even sure which, I don't even want to know exactly what kind of videos you're pointing to, but I- Implying things about your consumption of pornography. It's fine, don't worry about it. Dan, the only point I care about is when Sonic and Knuckles

are having a baby together. Because that's about the relationship they have about how they're gonna care for that child. And it's an emotionally committed thing that you can put yourself in, you can project yourself into the sun, you can project yourself into the knuckles. Thank you. You can feel cared for and safe.

Dan, the largest arachnid stone is the human heart. Yeah. Oh, no, wait, actually it's so. Don't touch it though. Like don't crack it open and try and like take a look. Yeah, don't try to give someone a heart job. That's not okay. Yeah.

No, bad idea. The only heart job you should get is handing out Valentine's Consensually to people who have ordered the Valentine's ahead of time We're delivering heart transplants if you were like the helicopter driver But don't let a dog eat that heart. Oh, that's a bad move. Don't let it you shouldn't have a dog in your helicopter anyway Let alone an Oregon transport helicopter. Yeah Don't let it, you shouldn't have a dog in your helicopter anyway. Let alone an Oregon transport helicopter, yeah. So after the party, she hangs out with her ex-boyfriend, who reveals, her high school boyfriend,

who reveals that he's actually asexual now. And that seems to kind of rile something up in her, and she texts Robert a sexy picture of herself in a nightie. And when he doesn't respond right away, she gets nervous and texts him that she sent it as a mistake. So weird that you used the word 90. I don't know, what would you describe it as? A nightgown.

Yeah, but like, I was just trying to say it at the same time. She was wearing a 90 in panties, you guys. He wants to say it in a cute way. Yeah, it's not just a nightgown, it's a 90. Yeah, yeah. Cause she was wishing him a 90 night. Yeah, it's not just a nightgown, it's a nighty. Yeah, yeah. Cause she was wishing him a nighty night. Yeah, specifically nighty night bugs, the only bugs Bunny cartoon ever

to win an Academy Award for some reason. Hallie's covering her face in dismay. Oh, we haven't even gotten yet. There's a moment in this movie that's coming up very soon. We're getting too very soon, where I feel like this movie was really speaking for Hallie and we'll get to that. Can I stop for a moment and say like one thing where I feel like this movie is really speaking for a hally and we'll get to that can I

Can I stop for a moment say like one thing that I like about this movie because like this movie is an interesting one because it's I I'll tip my hand a little bit like it's not so much that I think that this movie is bad It is an unusual adaptation of the source material which can be fine I just had a hard time getting the source material out of my head while watching it, so my feelings about this are kind of all over the map. But I do think that the movie was good at a lot of things, and one of them was

depicting how, you know, when you are dating in this day and age, like, texting can allow you to sort of get yourself out in front of your skis in a way that like- Yes, yes, very true. Get your hopes up, like establish a false familiarity and allow you to fantasize about what this could be.

Yeah. And I think this movie is actually really good at that. Yeah. In a way that I haven't seen. No, I agree this movie is actually really good at that. Yeah. In a way that I haven't seen. No, I agree. And in a way that doesn't feel, there's some things in the movie that feel a little false to me,

but that does not. I feel like these two people would text these things and they would get the incorrect impression from them. And it's not like, oh, you said this, but I thought you meant this, but you meant this, just the incorrect impression of how compatible they are or how comfortable they are with each other.

I do think a lot of that comes from the original story, but the movie is effective in adapting that part. In executing that, yeah. Yeah. And so it takes them days to finally text her back and he says, work has been busy. Taylor, her friend is like, cut this relationship off, get out of there.

But Margot accepts- She said that, she says, get your power back. Oh, that's right, get out of there. But Margot accepts Robert's invitation to see Empire Strikes Back at the theater she works in and she exclaims out loud, Star Wars is so boring. And I was like, did Halle write this movie? Halle, did you feel seen in that moment? I felt so seen. I was literally like, this is a movie for women. I really felt like, oh my gosh,

that like to be like, are you fucking kidding me? You're asking me to really felt like, oh my gosh, to be like, are you fucking kidding me? You're asking me to go see Star Wars. Not only are you asking me to go to my place of work, not only are you texting me out of the blue, but you're asking me to go see Star Wars. And I am caught between pretending to give a shit and also being really mad that you didn't realize that I wouldn't give a shit and also being like really mad

that you didn't realize that I wouldn't give a shit. Like I thought that was an elegant choice. Yeah, I think so too. And it just, it just me back to the moment in the Daily Show offices when you said, how much longer am I gonna have to listen to you guys talking about fucking Star Wars? Yeah, I think that was when Elliot and I

were arguing about Job of the Hut. Now I understand the Star Wars exhaustion and it speaks to a real, real thing out in the world. I mean, I know that there are also thousands of millions of women out there who love Star Wars, but I get what the- But I think not necessarily Star Wars exhaustion is so much as Star Wars indifference, being forced to care about a thing that, or pretend to care about a thing like Halle is saying, you do not care about, you don't have to deal with. But what about the Harrison Ford slender? How do to care about things like Halle is saying, you do not care about, you don't have to deal with. But what about the Harrison Ford slender?

How do you feel about that Halle? I shouldn't slander him. It was just like this has to be the most important person and she was like, yeah, whatever. I mean, I have affection for regarding Henry. Regarding Henry. No. Regarding, regarding Henry. So, all to say, Harrison Ford is in a lot of different kinds of movies and you don't have to pigeonhole him into,

you know. Sure. But, um. Yeah, he's in random hearts. Sure. What lies beneath? It was funny to me those like, Six days, seven nights.

There's a scene later on where he's like, yeah, I think I have a DVD of working girl around here. So even his idea of a movie for women still has He mentions that Harrison Ford is the wait you guys got that I was saying that he's in regarding Henry, right? Yeah, no, yeah, no, I understand. Yeah. No, we got it. Yeah. Yeah, we also were aware of that fact. Yeah We're J.J. J. J. Abrams scripted regarding Henry Movies JJ Abrams scripted regarding Henry. Have you guys ever heard of movies? There's this thing that Harrison Ford just said. I mean, what you just said, Hallie,

I feel like it's the subtext of so many scenes this movie is men saying to women, have you heard of movies? And what they're really saying is, let me explain to you about the movie I think is a movie. And I don't care what you think. He's, Robert's constantly being like, oh, you probably just like subtitled foreign movies

about Rwanda or whatever. And it's like, in his mind, those are the two types of movies, Empire Strikes Back and a subtitled movie that's super artsy about impressing things. But also the movie she said she watched the most was Spirited Away and it's like, all right, that's pretty fucking nerdy, God nerdy. Yes, that was a movie when she was like,

well, spirited away and he's like, oh yeah, I've heard of the director, but I haven't seen it. I've heard of the director. And it's like, he definitely saw that movie. He's definitely seen Miyazaki movies. There's no way he hasn't seen those. But he says he's like,

Harrison Ford is objectively the coolest guy, like the epitome of cool or something. And it's like, I like that as a moment of, he's so mature that his idea of what the coolest guy is, this essentially like a fictional pirate, you know, like a fictional wisecrack and pirate, you know. So the date is very awkward, they see Empire Strikes Back, his car is gross, she fantasizes, fantasizes about him murdering her again. In the movie, she keeps, maybe it's not a fantasizing, maybe it's a, she is catastrophizing, I don't know. In the movie, she keeps talking during the movie

and he just wants to watch the movie and is like very non-committal. And I've definitely been that guy where a woman has watched a movie with me and started talking and I've been like, yeah, yeah, but we're watching a movie. Like let's talk after the movie. I've definitely been that kind of awkward.

This is the point at which- You've been in a movie that you've seen like that many times that you're on a first date with it's like No, that's not the case. If it's a movie, it's always it's in this case It's been a movie I either haven't seen or a movie I haven't seen in a long time If it's a movie like if I was if I'm never gonna be on a date with another woman again Because my heart belongs to my wife, but if I was on a date with someone we were watching taking a Pelham 123 Yeah, we talked to that whole thing. I've seen that movie like 40 times. There you go

I mean I understand like I understand the movie wants me to like look at him as an asshole in this scene and sympathize with her, which I totally would if they were watching it at home. But in this scene, I'm like, yes, shut up. You're in a fucking movie theater. Stop whispering through the whole thing. I guess I'm defensive because I feel like she was already forced and not she was not forced. No This is this is what I thought it did so well was yeah Like pull the curtain back between like I really felt like her inner monologue was pretty

Accurate about like it's not like she has to go to this movie. It's not like she has to keep but she keeps like it's it's like a push and pull between like a fantasy of what this can turn out to be and a guilt with knowing that like this definitely isn't and there's no, like there's no vision of reality. It's just those two extremes. Yeah. Well, also Aunt Her coddling like his sensitivities

in a lot of ways. Well, that's the guilt. Yeah, yeah. And I think it's a, there's something about, I think you're right that like her inner thinking is so clear, but I wish the movie didn't have her like saying it all the time. I wish the movie would trust the audience to like feel those. I feel like the short story, trust the audience to feel and

understand those feelings without stating them outright. And the movie kind of doesn't trust the audience. But anyway, they go out for a drink, but she gets carded and she reveals she's only 20 and she starts to cry and feels dumb about it. And he kisses her ridiculously badly, just a very clumsy kisser. That was so funny. You guys didn't think that was very funny. It was very funny. No, that kiss I thought was very funny because it's like he's never even seen a kiss before. He doesn't know what he's doing. And I'll tell you that, that kiss I thought was very funny because it's like he's never even seen a kiss before. Like he doesn't know what he's doing. And I'll tell you that, that guy, I have not been. When I started kissing, I knew what I was doing.

Oh, yeah. Okay, come on. All right. Is that what Danielle told you? Yeah, I mean, I guess so. You're the best kissing I've ever kissed. Are you in the band's kiss? Because you're so good at it.

So they go to a second bar where Taylor tells, Taylor is talking to her over the phone in the bathroom cause ladies always have to go to the bathroom in groups. Even if they're not with each other, they call each other on the phone. But anyway, they, and Taylor is like, don't go back to his house and this date. But Margot was like, but if I have sex with him,

he'd be so grateful because he's such a, he's such a dork. And she decides to go home with him. No, but okay, okay, okay, no. But I think that like Miss Framestead a little bit because I think we're supposed to draw context from the fact that like she's just been told her, the person she last her virginity to, the like basically only serious relationship

we know in her life is asexual, was just telling her, it's not that I was disgusted having sex with you, I'm just disgusted about sex in general. And she is like, I think it's not just like, oh, he would feel like it's so grateful, so I should do it. It's also like, I think she wants to feel desired. Yeah, I think that's true too. I think those are two sides of the same coin. I don't think they're to feel desired.

Yeah, I think that's true too. I think those are two sides of the same coin. I don't think there's really different things. And she has a moment where the bathroom she's in, the wallpaper is just like lots of turn of the century women's faces and she kisses one before she walks out. And I really liked that.

That was the kind of small little moment that I thought the movie could have used more of. And one of them looked exactly like Michael Jackson, right? I didn't notice that. That one I didn't see, I have to admit. All right, well,, right? I didn't notice that. That one I didn't see, I have to admit. All right, well, go back. I didn't see that. Maybe I was watching it on a big enough screen.

And they go home, he challenges her to name an Indiana Jones movie, which again is a very, that felt very real to me. And she imagines briefly that there's a torture chamber there, she's scared, but also, like you're saying, Hallie, I think you're right, she wants to be desired. She likes that feeling. But once she gets into a super nerdy bedroom.

It's not like, okay, but you're putting it like, she likes that feeling. It's like she is vulnerable to that specifically in that moment. It's not just like women like to, I mean, women do like. No, but I'm not saying that. I'm saying just in this moment, I agree with you. I don't think it's, I'm not saying, as since Eve,

she has, as with all women since Eve, they have, you know, they've longed to be, I'm not saying that. Besides bring up fictional characters. Dan, fictional, fictional, hello. Eves? No, I'm just, I'm being provocative to get clicks. Yeah.

Elliot brought up Eve and you'll never guess No, I'm just, I'm being provocative to get clicks. Yeah. Yeah. Elliot brought up Eve and you'll never guess what Dan said next, you know. So they get into his nerdy bedroom and she has a conversation with herself. She's talking to her, to herself across the room in which they are like, what the hell are you doing here? Why are you doing this? You could leave at any moment.

You could say no right now. And they're having this conversation while she's allowing Robert to have this kind of clumsy, ignorant sex with her. Someone who has minimal to no experience with an actual other human person, it seems like, and is doing what he thinks he's supposed to be doing based on the pornography he's seen.

And yes, Hallie. Hallie Hadland to the flop house, yeah. I just want to say really quickly, you said his nerdy bedroom. And I think that I- He has a DVD of Minority Report. No, yes. Just laying out on a cabinet.

But that's not what is offensive of this. And it was so, I literally had flashbacks to like, any experience in my life where I was young and in that situation. And it's not just, oh, there's the Minority Report DVD. It's that there's a half-drunk slurpee and three beer cans. And you own this home home and it's like, not exactly a mess, but it's like, if I lived alone, I would never leave my home.

Like there's something like very immature about the way he takes care of his space. It's not just nerdy. It's like- Yeah, like you're right. That's true. Flashback to college age Dan who was not aware of how often he should wash his sheets.

Say. Yeah. Look, I'm being forthright and being honest. Like there are certain things that like I should have known, didn't really like sink in, like didn't like know how to take care of myself in those ways. No, and I was too lazy to learn.

And it was only later in life. I definitely had at least one time where women came back to my apartment and were like, this place is a mess. Like we're very open, saying the things that Margot does not say. They're like, this is a mess. You need to not leave papers all over the floor and things like that. And there wasn't like food all over, but I'd have like papers and books all over the place. And every surface becomes-

Chicken bones covering everything. Well, yeah, that's because I lived in the Texas Chainsaw Massacre House. That was leather faces stuff, that wasn't mine. I thought you were the girl from Girl Interrupted who keeps all the chicken carcasses underneath her bed. Different references. Yeah, go ahead.

Anyway, but or like every, I feel like when you're a. Different, different references. Yeah. Go ahead. Anyway, but, but, or like every, I feel like when you're a, when you're a young man, often every open surface becomes a place to put a thing. So I get that. That's true. And when you walk into that room, you're like, this is, this is horrible. Like you live in a style, you know, and you write this house is not so dirty that it's like, it's not like a serial killers pit, you know, but it is, it does show someone who does not show care in

What he's doing in the in the home that he lives in especially when he thinks he might be bringing someone home with him, you know I think you're right. It's just like a very like textbook like recognizable like like immature Even when like at their kitchen. Yeah, go ahead. Yeah, it's like there's there's all those pictures that go around online Where it's like some guys like all those pictures that go around online where it's like some guys like, I got my perfect apartment set up

and they have like a mattress on the floor without even a box spring. There's a big video game chair and a huge TV and that's their entire apartment. That's all the furnishings and you're like, oh, okay, like this is, I guess, yeah, this is what young guys do. Yeah, sure.

Well, and this is, I mean, this is another place too where I thought the movie was very effective and I, you know, Discomfiting in the sense that like they're having two different experiences in a way that like You can totally understand Why he thinks everything's okay like you're not like mad at him for it But like she's having the whole other thing going on and you're like Shit man like like it makes you just like worry about

Life and be like you know like it shows you the important of like constant active consent because she is totally like Like going through a thing with a thing kind of just because she sort of like decided maybe earlier that she wanted to and now she doesn't know what she wants. And on top of that the total obliviousness on his part that he is not recognizing anything that's going on with her. He's living out a fantasy that he assumes is reality and is not. Is the same for her. And this is also fueled by her fantasy earlier on, where one of the more effective things seeing inside of her brain, I think, is like.

Is how there's four different people that each represent one part of her brain. There's the swab, there's the nerd, there's the, I don't know if the other parts. The joc, yeah. No, but she has this fantasy earlier on where she's imagining him at his therapist Yeah. No, but she has this fantasy earlier on where like, she's imagining him at his therapist talking about her

and casting everything in a much more romantic way. And like even in a way where she's like, not necessarily wrong about things, like she's like, oh, you know, he wanted to share this movie with him with me because it was important to him and it was romantic to him You know like and she's not wrong about that, but she's also making all these kind of Pre-excuses for him and it's a very effective thing. I thought

So eventually and so she goes she has this experience is very unpleasant. She regrets the whole thing instantly They do they start to watch a DVD together in bed. It's like a European dubbed version of working girl, which is, and he reveals that he's 33 years old and that he was worried that when she went home for break, she would lose interest in him. And that maybe she'd like get back together with an old high school boyfriend and that the picture she sent him in her nightie,

I'm saying it again, was meant maybe for this other guy. And that's why he got, he was very hurt by it, because when she said that was a mistake to you, he thought, uh-oh, she's seeing someone else, but now he knows he should trust her. And it's funny because there's a way that they could play this that would have been, I think very funny, where he's like,

I know I can trust you, we're real. At the moment that she has decided in her head, I can never see this guy ever again. This cannot happen again. Yeah, Ellie, it's imagining a version where she's tugging at her collar. What's this happening? Yeah, she's just like, ooh.

Yeah, and she says, you should drive me home right now. And as soon as she walks in the door, he texts her to make more plans. And I have been the guy who wants to make plans again right away and annoys people like that, not a long time again. Then I reached the stage where I was like I'm never showing interest in anyone else ever again and that backfired the same way so It's hard

Let's go through your whole Anyway, so the year was 1994 so the next day But very mature for my age You are 12. I was 12, but very mature for my age. A little movie called, what was going on in 94? Was that Speed? A little movie called Shawshank Redemption came out and changed the way I thought about escaping from prison.

So the next day, Taylor tells Margo, you got to block him. Guys, good news. Speed was in 1994. So, look at Shawshank Redemption. Okay, come on, Dan. And so was Forrest Gump, guys. Shawshank, 94, Forrest, yeah, 94. What a blockbuster year for movies. I like that you said Forrest as if you forgot

the Gump part of it. Forrest, uh, uh, In it already. Remind me of your last name again. There was, I was driving, I was driving a, one of my sons to a doctor's appointment in Santa Clarita and we drove by the corporate headquarters of the Andy Gump company, the Porta Potty company.

And I was so excited. I was like, that's where their corporate headquarters are. And my son was not as excited that that's, if I wanted to get into the Porta Potty business that I was so close to it where their corporate headquarters are. And my son was not as excited that that's, if I wanted to get into the porta potty business, that I was so close to it, just a long commute away. That's where they dump it all. A dump dump. I was like, don't you understand kids,

you can't spill a dump without most of gum. Oh no, Elliot's disappeared. No, no, I just spent something up. It's okay Dan. His virtual background took over for a second. Yeah, Dan doesn't have object permanence, Elliot's disappeared. No, no, I just spent something up. It's okay, Dan. His virtual background took over for a second. Yeah, Dan doesn't have object permanence, it's okay. So the next day Taylor's like block Margo and she's like, he's suspicious.

He told you he had cats. There were no cats at his house. Did you see that? Why would a man lie about having a cat? Cause he wants to sound kind and gentle and loving and vulnerable. And Margo stops responding to Robert's texts and imagines him dying in a few different ways.

And then he sends her a montage of Harrison Ford roughly kissing women in movies, which I thought was a funny catch. That he's done that in a couple different movies. And Taylor takes the phone and runs into the bathroom and she texts him, I'm not interested in you, please stop texting me. And he responds with an apology like, I'm sorry, I didn't mean to, I didn't know I made you upset. Now they're at a pretty tame birthday drinks party for their Into the Woods friend. And they see that Robert is at the bar in the place that they're in. And her friends surround her like a herd of elephants protecting a baby elephant from a predator

so that he doesn't see her when they all leave. Which is a scene, this is one of many scenes that's in the story, basically, that this happens. But seeing it in person, and maybe you doesn't feel this way, seeing it in person, it went from being realistic to a little silly to me. The way they handled it. So I was trying to remember that,

because I did not go, I remembered that she saw him at a bar in the story, but that was really the context. I think they say something, I think she says something like they crowded around so that he wouldn't see me or something like that. I can't forget how she says it really the context. I think they say something, I think she says something like they crowded around so that he wouldn't see me or something like that. I can't forget how she says it in the story. But here it's like they're all shuffling together in one big crowd out the door in a way that maybe,

I was asking for that earlier, it seemed to be funnier. Maybe they pre-understood my criticism and they were trying to give it to me. I don't know. But that's the thing, I feel like this movie can't, it can't quite figure it in the same way. And it's a movie that's getting at similar things somewhat. In the same way that like, Promising Young Woman, and maybe we'll talk about this more

later, I also had issues with how the tone was all over the place. This one I kind of felt that way too, in some ways, that the movie cannot decide I think how real or how funny or how big it wants to be. Did you guys feel that way or am I reading too much into it? I mean, I know that opinions vary on this movie. It's controversial. I thought the promising young woman had a much stronger handle over its tone. I think that, yes.

I think that's true. The problem that I have with this movie is largely just like it's slippery in that way. Like there are things that are very goofy and then stuff that feels very you know like small and frightening and you know anyway. When I get thinking. How do you think? Oh yeah.

So here so I feel like I'm not actually able to like like not actually able to like, depersonalize this because I think that, and you guys as like people that I've worked with professionally who know things that I'm trying to write, like I feel like these are like themes that I'm so interested in seeing in creative works, and also like, you wanna be playful with them but you want to like

bring their true weight to light. And so I'm constantly like when people comment about tone in specifically these two movies and in general with like works like these I'm like is it just because because people are really uncomfortable with these kind of themes that don't exist in movies because they haven't existed yet? I mean, speaking for myself, it's not the themes, it's more that like, it's like I could see a version of this movie that is very extreme and is like didactic or like, you know, agit-prop

in the way that I feel like promising young woman is a little bit more. Where a promising young woman is like, I'm gonna make sure you understand this point. And this one has some of that. Or I could see a version of this that's like, really feels really real and like kind of beautiful in how awkward and uncomfortable the characters are

in what's going on with them. And this one kind of- But like, okay, so like, look at like Woody Allen. He's between all of that. Like it's neither, it's like real themes that people in relationships, you know, like let's cancel whatever, but like real themes that like people in relationships can relate to,

but also totally silly and absurd. And so is it just that it's more from the woman's point of view which doesn't happen at all, that is what makes viewers feel uncomfortable with it? I don't know. I'm willing to... I'm not, go ahead. No, no, no, no, no.

I don't think you're indicting. I just, I'm kind of willing to go with you on that because I generally think that if the movie entertains and if the movie has something to say and is communicating it to me. I am less of a tone policeman than like, I think a lot of people who critique movies, like I like a movie that where the tone is kind of all over the place because I think that that's truer to life. I mean, this one, it might be that like some of it makes me

uncomfortable that I, so I'm, you know, I don't know how to respond to it. I think with me it's more like the parts that are uncomfortable, I kind of wanted to be more uncomfortable. And it felt like there was one of the issues I had with it was the soundtrack is nonstop. There's constantly pop songs on the soundtrack, kind of underlining what's being done.

And it was like, I want to see, and one of the things that did it for me in a good way in terms of the tone, in that scene where they're in bed together and she's having the conversation with herself, is that the music that's playing is music that he put on. And so it's part of the scene rather than the movie kind of like nudging me in the ribs about what's going on. There were a number of different scenes where I was like,

I want to see this, this is going to be more uncomfortable and more powerful to me if the movie is not, it feels a little bit more real, so it feels a little bit less like it's, it's trying to soften what's going on by putting a soundtrack on this kind of ironic, you know, or trying to, there's a moment where, coming up where she's walking at night and she puts on her headphones

and she's listening to this Britney Spears song that I had not heard before, but which is all about Britney Spears, like, it's Britney- It's Britney, bitch, you haven't heard it, it's that. Are you reallyars song that I had not heard before, but which is all about Britney Spears, like, is returning. It's Britney bitch, you haven't heard it, that? Are you really that surprised that I hadn't heard that song? Come on. I mean, people have swag that says,

it's Britney bitch that they wear out. Okay, go ahead. I thought that was just what people were saying about her. I didn't know it was a song. Anyway, but in that moment, when she's listening to that song, and she's feeling something listening to that song, I was like, this is a really powerful scene for me.

This is really good because a song that she likes, that's why it's on her playlist, she's now, something about it, it is underlining the moment of fear and paranoia that she's in and the trepidation she's feeling. And I kind of wanted more stuff like that. And when you're saying like, what's the difference between this movie doing it and Woody Allen doing it? As like you said, setting aside a Woody Allen stuff, that. When you're saying like, what's the difference between this movie doing it and like Woody Allen doing it aside,

as like you said, setting aside of Woody Allen stuff, is that Woody Allen, not always, but for the most part in a movie like Annie Hall is just better at it. Like the jokes are funnier and the affecting moments are feel more real in that one particular movie. Fair enough.

I'm not comparing this to, these are complicated comparisons. Why not compare it to anybody? But I will say, I'm not willing this to, these are complicated comparisons. Why not compare it to any movie? But I will say, I'm not willing to like be like, this is the female Annie Hall, but I will say. Now who's this character? No. I like this character and it was like,

this should call this like a manly hall. Cause this is from a ladies point of view, talking about a man. But I think that like what you're, what's bumping you about this is like reiterating the theme of what she's struggling with, which is just like, I'm, like, I feel like my job is to like make this guy comfortable and like I'm not the star of this.

Like, I say as my husband brings me a martini. No. I could tell that was what was happening just off screen. I saw that look of like, maybe I texted for this. Who knows? No, I didn't, I didn't. He just brought it. Oh, that's very nice.

Ladies, get yourself a man who brings you a martini in the middle of your podcast. There he is. And looks at you the way Jack Skellington looks at Christmas. No, but the point is that like, I think that like a big part of this is that like her self-consciousness is, and women's self-consciousness,

or I won't speak for all women, but the part that I identified with is that like, it's really my responsibility to make this guy have a good time. It's not my, like, I'm not the star here. Like, like, why am I doing this? And that's like the, you know, her, her like inner monologue manifested as like the woman outside of her is being like, you can say no, like, why are you doing this? Just like, stop doing this.

You don't have to do this. And she's like, but he's, he's like here and I gave him all these reasons why it would be upsetting to him. And it's like all about like his experience. Yeah. And so to be like, the music you're hearing is like backing up his experience, like, makes sense. No, no, but I think that scene, it works really well, you know. Oh, I thought you were saying that you didn't like that. No, no, the scene where he's playing the music, it's more like when there's a part

where they're going to his house and it's like, they're in the bar and there's a song playing as she picks him up. This is me being like super just pedantic, but there's a song, like there's a needle drop song when she walks out with him from the bar. Then they go to his house, there's another needle drop song as they're going into the house.

And it was like, and this is something that I feel in a lot of movies is I'm like, let me live in this moment without the music. Like let me live in this awkward moment of her about to go into his house. He thinks one thing, she thinks another thing. They're both, they're in the same moment if they're not, they're in the same moment

if they're not, they're feeling different things. And there were times in the movie where I just want, something that I think the short story did really well, which is it kind of told you what was happening without telling you how to feel about it. And I feel like the movie is, it's a very delicate thing to do and a hard thing to do. And I feel like the movie is not as successful with that.

And maybe the problem is that I keep, like Dan mentioned earlier with him, like I keep comparing it in my head to with that. And maybe the problem is that I keep, like Dan mentioned earlier with him, like I keep comparing it in my head to the story. And maybe that's the issue. The more we talk about it, the more I kind of don't mind the movie being pushy, just in the sense that like, I don't know, it was effective at making me feel uncomfortable

and making me like evaluate how many times like, things in my relationship, I made them about me just because I'm used to like it being about me. And you know like I went set the stuff where he's like let me share this piece of art or media with you because like I do think that it's something that is you know mostly associated with men but happens with nerds of all genders where it's like maybe we don't know how to express our emotions well so we do it by forcing our stuff on other people and to just like I don't know to be forced to like sit in

some of this I don't know maybe I be forced to like sit in some of this, I don't know, maybe I'm coming around and like, I'll give the movie a little bit more in retrospect. I don't know. If this is about my birthday when I made you listen to that Japanese song. I loved that song, by the way. Yeah, I see you. Yeah, you made a movie.

I made a little video. It was really good. Anyway, anyway, we'll keep talking about this. We should get through the rest of the Pauli movie. So, Margot, he gets a text from him saying, I saw you at the bar, you're really pretty, I miss you. And she's instantly kind of paralyzed. And she and Taylor watch in horror

as Robert keeps texting saying, I don't know what I did wrong. I really think you should tell me what I did wrong. I don't understand. Was that guy you were with your boyfriend? Are you having sex with him right now? Is that what's going on? And then finally just says whore at the end. And this is where the original short story ends.

And it's rough, like it's a powerful end to that story, but the movie keeps going. And Margot now is very worried that at any moment Robert might come up to her, might surprise her, might be following her. She sees him getting into his car outside of the theater and reports this to a cop played by Liza Colonesias from the Bayer.

And I was like, you should be in the kitchen. What are you doing? That's your place. You're succeeding there. You're excelling. And she's like, he didn't break any laws. I can't do anything about this. Okay, question in this moment.

Did you guys think it was like a weird, I mean, it was clearly intentional, but like, I was like, I could believe this a lot more if it was like a male cop when they chose to make it a female cop, but maybe they didn't want to make it cliche by making it a male cop. I think that there was, I think maybe there's something there about, I think you're right.

They didn't want to be cliche or too obvious, and there's something there about maybe her having internalized the things that people say. Yeah. I don't know. Or just a cop message of like, don't think that just because a cop is like you in some way that they're your ally. I know it's, you know, there's a lot going on there, I guess. Yeah. Potential things.

To me, it was sort of this idea of like, yeah, you would think that this cop would be more sympathetic, but she has sort of just been jaded by being a police officer and has kind of taken this line of whatever is the least resistance for me as a public servant to not worry about it. But the other thing is when the movie is working well, and in this scene it's a little, it's sometimes working well, sometimes not.

When the movie is working well, it is riding the line of neither one of these characters is a villainous character. When she says he hasn't broken the law, it's true, he has not broken the law. He would like, this is, he's an awkward, kind of weird, kind of a little creepy guy, and he was not pleasant to be around.

And she found that out. She didn't treat him well, and he seemed, and he has not done anything. And so in these moments, I feel like the movie is doing the job of balancing that thing of like, which the story again does very well, where it's like neither of these people, it's not a hero and villain story.

It's not an unblemished victim and predator story. It is two people who are constantly making mistakes in the way that they handle this situation. And so there was some, I wonder if that was part of it too. It's just that trying to get, continue that theme of like, he hasn't broken any laws. Like there's nothing that he's done that you can go to the police.

Yeah. He was a bad date and she saw him getting out of his car once, but he didn't, he hasn't talked to her since then, you know, aside from these being mean on text you know so it's The I feel like the more I talk about this movie the more I like it But it's more because I like what the movie is trying to do then I think necessarily yeah that it achieves it You know I think the aim of this movie is so good and it's it's like it doesn't quite hit the bullseye Instead it's in that like third circle

outside of it, you know But the I mean it's I it's, I don't know, I don't know darts or archery or whatever. I don't know what that's called. But Taylor and Marko, they're like, we need to defend ourselves. The digital circle. Yeah.

Taylor goes, Marko, you need to defend yourself. They go to this self-defense store and they buy a ton of mace and a tracking device and to, in theory, put on his car so that they can always know where he is. I thought that scene was very funny, by the way. The scene in the self-defense place is very funny. Yeah.

I love how the guys immediately like, I could see why two beautiful ladies, like you might be worried about that. And she's like, we are not gonna be doing that. Back up. And she's like, okay. Calvin, read the room. He has a name tag on,

so she's instantly referring to him by his first name, which I think is very funny. And when he goes two words, Smith and Wesson. And it's like, there was just a lot, there were some good jokes in that scene. And he's just, you know, he's just a guy who's trying to work a job on his end. So he's like, I don't know, what do you want?

It's, yeah, everyone has clear wants in that scene. It's funny. Yeah. And two of the friends, two of the guy friends burst into the room to invite them to a costume party. And that makes them mad because they're already keyed up, you know, they're already paranoid. And that turns into an argument between Taylor and Margo and Taylor ends up storming out where they kind of indict each other's personalities to a certain extent. That night, Margot does. But their personalities are the anti, one as being highly, constantly skeptical of men and one as being too trusting of men.

Yes, one who's too trusting and one who's so skeptical that she hides behind the internet, according to Margot. And I feel like this is the way in the movie takes its turn where it's like the filmmakers kind of weren't quite sure what to do with it. And so they go for the path of like what a movie is supposed to do. Because Margot sneaks into Robert's garage to put a tracking device on his car, which is an extreme action for a character to take.

But maybe this character doesn't push to it. There's a dog in the garage. It's the dog she saw earlier in the movie. And Robert, here's the dog growling and comes out, and it leads to they get into a kind of semi, not quite fight and Margot accidentally maces herself and falls in his head and she wakes up in Robert's house. And he's very angry.

He's like, if you walk out of here like this, everyone's gonna think I did this to you. And then he starts going through their texts to prove that she misled him and led him on or was into him. Or he's just, he's angry and he's going through their texts to prove that she misled him and led him on or was into him or that he's just, he's angry and he's going through their texts. And I've never been this guy, but I know guys do this kind of thing

where they're like, you need to give me a reason. Look at these things he said. Meanwhile, Taylor is like- Well, I also think he's scared. I also think he's scared. Oh, I think he's scared. He's not just angry. No, no, I-

Because he's scared that like, sorry, go ahead. Well, looking at it from his point of view, which I don't, which when the movie is working well, I think you can do, he, this is a woman that he went out with once, she did, she ghosted him. He doesn't know why. Then she showed up in his garage and,

and trying to plant something on his car and now. Mace yourself and have a head injury. Yes, seems to be trying to entrap him in some sort of thing. So from his point of view, it's like, what is going on here? You know, what have I got to do? And this is what I was trying to get at earlier, where it's like, the movie in extending the film beyond the natural endpoint of the story is still trying to kind of keep up this ambiguity where it's like, yeah,

you understand why she is terrified and she is more maybe historical, definitely historical reason to be terrified. And he is yelling, but also she broke into his home and did something that would look very bad for him. And so the movie has turned into this weird kind of like the end of War of the Roses thing where it's more about like, I don't know, like how the mistrust between the heterosexual cisgendered sexes is going to tear everyone apart than it is kind of saying something more grounded

and real at that point. I don't know like it's it's I don't know how I feel about it. Like I'm kind of like impressed that the movie like took like a ballsy turn in adaptation, but it has gone so far away at this point too that it is I don't know something to see. at this point too that it is, I don't know, something to see. I don't know, how do you feel about it? I mean, well, we're not, I don't want to jump ahead, but I agree and I want to come back to that. Okay.

Elliot, go. Okay, I mean, we could talk about it now, but well, so meanwhile, Taylor, she walks into Margo's room, she's not there, she goes, oh my God, she knows what she's doing. She jumps in a lift car. We know because of dialogue earlier that she knows, but the driver of the lift car doesn't know

that the driver of the lift car is the online moderator that she was mad at earlier. But she just goes, we gotta find Mario. He's been impersonating a woman. Oh, well, yeah. And then opened a new, and then when he was kicked out by her, opened a men's feminist, you know.

He wants to be an ally. And she doesn't really understand. She doesn't, she's rightfully suspicious. That's weird. And Robert admits, this was the moment that seemed, that each of these characters has a moment that where I'm like, movie, I think this is not necessarily helping you.

With Margot, it is for me. And for Margot, it is when she decides to put a tracking device on his car, which seems like a big jump. And for Robert, it's the moment where he admits, yeah, okay, so that was my dog. I was following you so that we could bump into each other and meet at some point and I could ask you out,

is that so wrong? And that's something where I'm like, that's not a, he's like, and if we got married, this would be the story that would be told at our wedding. It would be adorable and romantic. And it's like, that is a, I don't know, maybe it's just because I'm not the kind of guy who like, follows haunts places right where there's a woman I know, so that I can pretend to be meeting her, which is the kind of thing

that happens in movies all the time. But like, has a Gucci, for instance. But the, but it's definitely like a, it's a moment when the character stops being an ambiguously creepish character to me and becomes like a little more overtly creepy. But he goes, and he's yelling at her and she's like, can you just help me get water for my eyes because of the mace? And he goes, you need salient solution. She goes, oh, you know that because you've been in this situation for it. And he goes, I'm a nurse. That's how I know that. And while he's going to get salient solution, she starts calling 911. But wait a minute, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, because this is one of the most important moments.

He says, I'm a nurse, you would have known that, you would have known that if you ever asked me. And I thought that that was like a very illuminating moment of they're both caught up in their own fantasies and as much as she's made him central to his fantasy, to her fantasy, as much as he's been made like the main character in her fantasy and she feels like she constantly, that she has not actually like engaged getting to know this person. Yeah, earlier, earlier, she imagines his therapy session where he's talking about her like

we mentioned earlier, and the way his therapist office looks, the way he's talking about it is so it's so not realistic you know not not realistic to his life. He's wearing a white cable knit sweater. Yes no I did I did notice that I'm like I love the fact that her fantasy version of him is you know like I, Chris Evans and Knives Out sort of styled, you know, guy. But I did think that that was like, I don't think it's like inditing of her, but it's like, it's very easy to lose sight of the reality that like, okay, if we're talking about real life, like a Woody Allen movie, she's 20, he's 33.

Oh, basically all Woody Allen. Oh, that aspect of like a Woody Allen movie, I think that real life is like a Woody Allen movie. She's 20, he's 33. Oh, basically all Woody Allen. Oh, that aspect of like a movie. I think that real life is like a Woody Allen movie. And I was like, some of them, but you're right. The younger women, younger women, older guys, is all of them, yeah. To say we're both like on equal, equal maturity should be expected of both of us.

They shouldn't because they're completely different ages. But I did think that, like, I don't know, that that's why I just wanted to pause because that moment struck me of like, oh, yeah, like they're making a point that she the movie. Yeah. Yeah. Very interesting in the way it shows how they're both constructing a fantasy version of the other person. Yeah. Yeah. And they're both oblivious to the real, they're not even interested in exploring the real person. Yeah.

That being said, it is a very good point that then leads to them fighting over the phone until eventually he is strangling her and she's hitting him in the head with bottles. They knock over a heater in the basement. The house catches on fire. Which wouldn't have happened if he didn't leave so many empty bottles around the house because he didn't clean up. Or plugged in heaters, you know? The house catches on fire, they're trapped in the basement. He climbs into a basement drain.

Which happens because he had real cats. He did have cats. He did have cats. I was worried, did the cats get away? I was worried about the cats. But the cats, they don't have anything about finding cats. Yeah. But the cats were being like kept warm by the heater, I think. That's why they were downstairs.

That's time to be the- I didn't notice that part of it, but- Well, that's why when she opened the door, the cat ran out. They ran out, okay. So, look, I just want those fictional cats to be all right, Halsey. That's my main concern at this point in the movie. The house catches on fire. They've, eventually she does joint, she's reluctant to follow

him into this basement drain, but eventually she does the next morning. Oh no, that, then Taylor and her driver arrive as the fire trucks get there and they sit through the night, the next morning they're still there sitting on the curb. She reveals to him who she is and he's like, oh, nice to meet you. You know, there's a tentative rapprochement between these two fighting moderators at once they've met in person. He never fought with her. He never fought with her. No, that's true. He was pushed out for assuming a fake identity. And the firefighters find Robert and Margot passed out in the drain but alive. Days later, Margo and Tyler ride their bicycles by the lot where Robert's house is. And I couldn't

tell if this was having gone to college in New York City where people do not mostly ride bicycles around unless it's like a city bike, which didn't, was not a part of the city at the time I was going to school. I couldn't tell if them riding bikes over by his house was a realistic thing because they probably wouldn't have their own car at that point, or if it was an unrealistic thing that was helpful in making them seem younger. Because there is a very kind of like E.T. quality to two young people riding a bike in a suburb.

So I will say, I'm actually, I feel like I'm, I don't know if I'm like implanting memories, but this whole layout of this movie, having, so I was an undergraduate at Yale, and this whole physical setup is exactly like New Haven. And I'm wondering, it's not supposed to, I think it's supposed to be like Michigan. No, and they shot it in New Jersey.

It's supposed to be somewhere else, but they shot it in New Jersey as well. But it looked, I'm curious to know if like the, because like that like projector was on the same, the way that they like lined it up on the street was like where our like the old movie theater was. And, or maybe I'm just like putting myself into the situation. But all I did was like, I had a like a cruiser bike that I rode around New Haven my whole time there. We had like the tassels on the handlebars and everything. Not tassels, but everything else.

It was like absolutely. Yes, I had a basket on the front. Did ET ever sit in it? No. Oh, that I know of. But even like his house that we're done, like, no. Even rockets looked very much like a New Haven block like of the houses and like the,

so I was wondering if like, oh, I wonder if like anyone who was making this was thinking about that or. That's possible. I mean, if Isabella Rosalini is gonna be a professor at a college, it's gonna be at one of the best, you know? No, but I'll just say, I don't think it is unrealistic because. Okay, for them to be on bikes.

All right, it's just outside my experience. Unlike most of the movie, which is very much my experience with the older men that I dated. So they go by the lot where Robert's house used to be, and they're like, yeah, his co-worker's sitting moved away, but he might've just told them to say that. The girl's still suspicious, and later at work, another nerdy creep hits on Margot,

similar to the way Robert did, and tells her to give him his number, her number. And she has this look on her face that's just like, here we go again, cut to credits. He was in Mad Men, right? That guy, that actor? He might've been, he seemed really familiar. I didn't recognize him, he seemed familiar.

I think he might be right. I know that casting my brain back. I think he was like the young advertiser who, remember like Don stole his thing and so he's like, you have to hire him. Like the, the sort of like a Nepo baby and whatever. We'll talk about it later. I don't know.

Is he- Yeah, he looked like- Sorry I have an instant Mad Men's recall. Yeah. Yeah, I am M. R, it's called. Also, I'm the movie. Yeah. Yeah, it's the end of the movie,

and now we're left to puzzle out the, you know, like take up the pieces. Will she learn from her mistake and not give her number to this guy who calls her a girl who's never seen the apartment? Or will she? Or will they get back together? Hallie's such a hopeless romantic.

The listener can't see that Hallie had double crossed fingers on that one, but she's so hoping for it. Well, and honestly, I had this like, like my babysitter when I was young used to make me watch Young and the Restless all the time. And I think this was Young and the Restless where there was like a, like, it was Marty and Todd. Todd had raped Marty. They were going through the rape trial

and then during the rape trial, Marty and Todd fell in love as like the defendant and... And the plaintiff. And the plaintiff, yeah. So I was like, is this Marty and Todd? Should they be together? These are the most unlikely of couples. You canceled the young and the restless,

probably for real, I don't know. Probably literally, yeah, probably literally. The daytime soap world has been shattered. Struggling, but yeah. So, wow, what a roller coaster you got. What a roller coaster we've gone on. I'm so glad we chose this movie. Actually the part where we have to tease us.

This is a Hallie Haglid choice. It's funny, yeah, I gotta say, I sent Hallie a list of possibles and Howlly responded in the way that you know that Howlly is like really into like, it was just all caps cat person, exclamation point. And it was a lot to chew on. Like a cat.

We should, yep, very chewy cats are. Let's do our final judgments whether this is a good bad movie, bad, bad movie, or movie, kind of like, I have to say, right off the bat, I'm not sure I can fit it into our arbitrary. We've had a lot of those lately. I know, but this one, here's the thing. I don't know, like I don't know it was totally successful for me, but I also don't know to what degree that is because it really defied my

expectations of what an adaptation of this story would be. And I knew that it was going to go into some weird directions in the third act. What I didn't know was that it would still be sort of trying to like pump up some of the ambiguity in the third act. Like I had heard like, oh you know he becomes a killer in the third act. Yeah that's what I heard also. But I appreciated that it didn't. Yes I I agree. Yeah, no, it's still, I don't know, it found a way, even as it got sort of absurdly heightened,

it found a way to try and thread a certain needle. Why, because sewing is women's work, Dan. Unacceptable. This woman's work. Anyway, what am I saying? I don't know. I'm saying that I think that I don't know if it's totally successful, but if you're interested in this, like it clearly made us have a crazy conversation where multiple times I'm like, am I an asshole right now? Like, you know, and that's valuable. So if you're interested in it,

I'm not gonna discourage you from seeing it. That's kind of where I'm at. That's my judgment on this. Hallie, what do you think? What do you guys have to say? Yeah, I mean, I feel like I was, after I watched it, I was like, I know this isn't a good movie, but I don't.

Well, I don't know. I was like, I don't feel like it's a bad, bad movie. Like I wasn't bored. I wasn't like, this is silly. I was like, oh, I'm so glad they're, that this is a movie that like talks about certain things. And so I think it, I would say, I don't know exactly how you guys define your parameters,

but I would say a good, bad movie. No, neither do we. I would say it's worth watching. It's interesting. Yes. Makes you happy. I think it doesn't fit into any of our categories. I feel like it is not as successful as I would like it to be.

Also, I think the main actress is very good. So that's another we haven't really talked about. But. Ooh, yikes. Wowza. Wow, sorry that I'm being so brave to say that when you guys won't. I think it's a movie that is not fully successful, but I think it's somewhat successful.

And yeah, I think in some ways it's worth seeing just for the things it's doing and it's trying to do. And I wish that it was like, I don't know, I wish it was like a little more consistent in what it's doing. And I wish it didn't have quite so many needle drop songs. I don't need so much music on this episode. And you wanted a happy ending with those two crazy kids got together.

Yeah. I didn't want them to realize, wait a minute, but you thought this, but I thought this. Aw, but I also, I think that I was, it's one of those movies where I told, I, I both admire them for taking the story to a place where it gets, it's extreme, but the characters are still, there's still not one character who's an out and out villain and one who's an out and out hero, but I also kind of wish that it didn't end in a place where they were in a basement trying to escape

from a burning house, even though I know that the metaphor is that if we can't come together as two or multiple sides and relationships, then a world will fall apart around us. We have to understand what we're doing. But it's a... But also... I just wish it was...

I think it wasn't bad, but I wish it was a little better than it was. But didn't you also think that, like that last image when they opened the drain and they're sort of like curved around each other. It was supposed to be some reference to like the archeology stuff of it's like kind of like a Pompeii situation of how they're like wrapped around each other. What I really wish is I wish that they were in a yin-yang formation to really hit it home.

I mean they were, or were they, I mean they, I don't think they were like head to feet, you know? I mean they weren't in like't think they were like head to feet, you know? Yeah, I mean, they weren't in like a 69 position. That's Pallie, that's not what I'm talking about. No, I mean, that is what you're saying. Pallie, that was the first thing that I thought of too, so. Wow, I guess I'm just a little more enlightened than you guys or not sexy enough, huh?

Yeah, can you work on your sexiness? Can you bring your sexiness up for the podcast a little bit? But it's definitely a movie that, like, it's a conversation starter movie, which is maybe all it needs to be. Can I ask you guys, did you ever feel bored during this movie? Well, that's the thing. It's two hours, which I think is too long for this movie. Too long for a movie.

But I was not bored by it, no. I couldn't tell if I was just like, oh God, I just like get an excuse to not be around my children or like not pay attention to anything that happens. So, but I was like, yeah, I definitely like wasn't, I didn't feel like it was a two hour movie. No, I agree.

I thought it was two hours. I think it's a little, it could have stuff come from it, cut from it, but there was no parts where I was like, ugh, come on. Like it feels like it was two hours. I think it's a little it could have stuff come from it cut from it But there was no parts where I was like, oh Come on like it feels like it moves relatively quickly, you know, yeah, so I think that's very successful about it Yeah, it's not that was not one of these movies where I was like, all right already like just get a room Oh, no, you did get a room. Oh, it's pretty awkward. Just get out of a room already like All right speaking of burning down or just get out of a room already, like, come on. Just burn down this room. Yeah.

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Well, because I'm here to tell you we've got some live shows coming up. One in a place that's very familiar to us and very dear to our hearts, and one in a very new place that we're very excited about. On March 31st, that's right, Easter Sunday, we're gonna be performing at the Bell House in Brooklyn, our old stomping grounds.

We love to be there. They're a great place to put on a show and they're just a fun, comfortable place to see a show. You don't wanna spend Easter with your family. I don't want to either. It's not even my religion. Go to the Bell House instead. At 7.30 PM, we'll be doing a show there.

Dan, can I announce what movie we're doing? Yeah, you know what? Let's do it. Let's have a little I announce what movie we're doing? Yeah, you know what? Let's let's do it You know, let's have a little fun. Okay, we're gonna be just we're gonna be watching Alright, I just saw the name of the movie. Oh, we're gonna be watching the garbage pale kids. Well, not what we're gonna be talking about We're not watching the garbage pale kids movie at the show. Yeah, if you're confused if you follow the Twitter page I may have said something about Superman Returns. You know what? We had to change him up We're gonna do garbage pale kids for a good reason. I don't know whether we're announcing that reason,

but it'll be fun. It'll be an exciting surprise if we're not. We may have, maybe we'll announce it in the future if we'll have to get permission, but we may have a guest who wants to do the Garbage Pail Kids movie. So that'll be us. It's a guest you will like. It's a guest you'll like a lot. It's a guest that, and Dan, feel free to tell Alex to cut this out if it's too much.

It's a guest who we gave a blank check to on what movie we would talk about at the show. See if you can noodle that clue. So that's March 31st, Easter Sunday at the Bell House. Gonna be very exciting. But we also in May are doing two shows in one night in Merry Old England, that's right We're gonna be in Oxford England two shows at the Oxford Town Hall as part of the Saint Audio podcast festival

We're so excited about this. We want to do a show in England for a very long time and Oxford's just a beautiful town You know, it's a beautiful city. It's a beautiful venue. We're doing two shows The 7 p.m. Show the early show we're talking about the Avengers not the Avengers It's a beautiful city, it's a beautiful venue. We're doing two shows, the 7PM show, the early show we're talking about, The Avengers, not The Avengers, that's the good one, with the Marvel superheroes. No, The Avengers with Uma Thurman and Ray Fiennes, that is the Hollywood version

of the British television show, The Avengers. And at 9PM, we're gonna be talking about the most important movie in British cinema history, Spice World, that's right, the only Spice Girls movie That's right, the only Spice Girls movie up to this point. Maybe there'll be another one who knows. They could do another one. They could do it. They could do it. They're also with us. Yeah.

They could reunite for another movie. So March 31st at the Bell House, Garbage Bell Kids. May 24th in Oxford, we're doing The Avengers and Spice Girls 2 separate shows. For ticket links and more information, go to flophousepodcast.com slash events. And I just want to remind folks, Max Fun Drive is coming up. This is what funds this show that you enjoy, I hope still after all these years, it is honestly as television has vaporized as a previously lucrative career has- Don't hold back, Dan.

Don't hold back, yeah. Gone up in flames, podcasting has turned out to be the wave of the future for us. So we would love your support during MaxFun Drive and I just want to do a quick mention of our MaxFun bonus content for members who donate at the $5 level or more what's going to be available for them. On day one, it'll be our Spawn LA live show. We are putting it up as our bonus content.

You can hear us talk about Spawn. You can hear my heartfelt farewell to the West Coast tour at the end of that show. And we're also gonna do a three episode series on the films of Graydon Clark. We already talked uninvited with Gillian Flynn on main, but we're gonna talk about some of his other movies, Joysticks, The Forsticks the forbidden dance one other that I can't remember But he's a schlockmeister extraordinaire. So we're gonna do you know more boco than ever before Stewart probably is gonna do some RPG stuff at some point can't confirm that for sure, but I know he always loves it. So That'll be coming up with Max Fun Drive. Back to you.

If there's ever a time to contribute to Max Fun for the bonus content, this is it. We're gonna be doing a lot. And I'm looking for it. As much as I'm not looking forward to talking about Garbage Bill Kids, I'm still looking forward to talking about the character of King Vidiot in Joysticks.

I'm looking forward to watching that character again. He's an amazing, maybe the greatest character in film. Before we finish with the promo section, I know this has been a long one. I want to mention I have my Hercules comic series from Dynamite Comics comes out character in film. Before we finish with the promo section, this has been a long one. I want to mention I have my Hercules comic series from Dynamite Comics comes out starting in April. My other podcast, the 99% Invisible, Breakdown the Power Broker with Roman Mars

is currently out now. Look for, I guess, Power Broker and my name or go to the 99% Invisible feed because that's where the episodes are. ["The Power Broker"] MaxFun Drive 2024. Max Fun Drive? What about it? It'll be the best time for someone to support the podcasts they love.

Oh yeah, Drive Exclusive Gifts, special events, and of course all the amazing bonus content. So what's on your mind? Check. Well, it starts March 18th and it's only two weeks long. And check. Well, what if they miss it? Well, they should follow Max Fun on social media or sign up for the newsletter at MaximumFun.org slash newsletter so they don't miss it.

Otherwise, checkmate. Who guests on Jordan Jesse Goh? I mean, we could just list Pat Noswald, Kumail Nodjiani, Maria Bamford, whatever. We couldn't remember all of them. So we asked my kids. Famous people. How famous?

I don't know, pretty famous. Ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ah, ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh Jordan Jesse Doe, a comedy show for grownups. Let us move on to letters from listeners. Listeners like you. This one, this first one. This listener or this letter? I'm confused. This first letter. Oh, from who?

Is listeners like you. This letter is from, not used specifically, but like you. This letter is from Hanuman, last or first name withheld, depending on which one, it's unclear which one Hanuman is, but Hanuman writes, as a mechanic, I find the dead car trope

poorly thought out in most movies. The lights are always on, brighter than any real headlights. The door dingers, digging away, but it never starts. So my question is, do writers do real life research on the things they're writing about? And we've got three television writers here. You can't take that away from us. You cannot even. The way I wrote TV, you can't take that away from me.

Yeah. Even if we're not currently writing for television. But who is these days? You cannot deny that we have all three written for television. So as three writers, do we do research? Is this a thing that we do? Question mark? I have an answer for this, but. Okay. Hallie, do you do research? Is this a thing that we do? Question mark? I have an answer for this, but... Oh, okay. Hallie, do you do research when you're writing?

You do, right? You do a lot of research. I mean... I mean, you led to Las Vegas for an elderly beauty contest. For research, right? Yes. So, I do do research. And I often feel like the research I do is insufficient because you know here we are

we listen to podcasts where so I feel like when I was a little bit younger and I would listen to I like had this like you know I would listen to, I had this, I would listen to like culture podcasts. Occasionally, when this whole crew was writing for the daily show, there would be times where I've heard of it. There would be moments where like, it's John's last show, it's Trevor's first show, it's Trevor's and and it was like um listening to podcasts that I really trust, respect, opinions that I admire and then I would hear them talking about something that like I knew so deeply about and I would be like, oh, you guys like, I have no idea what the fuck you're talking about.

And sometimes it would be like, well, I don't usually watch late night, but like I tuned in for this episode and I would be so angry. I would be like, well, then you don't know what the fuck you're talking about. All to say, I understand both feeling like I am self-conscious when I write things about doing research,

but that gets continually magnified about how little you know. Right now, I'm saying I was when people on podcasts talk about late night, I was like, you guys have no idea what the fuck you're talking about. But the whole format of late night or specifically daily show stuff that we did was like, hey guys, catch up with this like, presidential situation that's melting down in Brazil and then let's like have a really strong opinion about it. And so it was like, all right, yeah, I will engage and I care a lot and I'll read all this stuff. But also, how could I possibly know everything that anyone who really cared about that issue? I mean, I'm sure anyone who did was listening to it and being like, all right, well, there's

like a lot more nuance to this situation, you guys, so you don't know what you're talking about. So I would say, yes, I do do research and I'm self-conscious about not doing research, but I think of it's something that you really care about and you, or maybe this is the definition of really good writing when you watch something and you don't feel alienated by it because it's something you both care about and don't feel like the people who wrote it did not know what the fuck they were talking about, then that's good writing. But I also think, yes, I do a lot of research. I care a lot. But sometimes I wonder if it's the thing you care about most, maybe you shouldn't be watching a TV show about it.

Yeah. I think there's some, I think there's some truth to that. Cause definitely I do research for things, but there comes so many times when you're writing something and you're like, I know from our research, this is not the way that it would work, but the story is what's important here and not getting these facts exactly.

The same way I got so mad watching Mank, there's so many times in that where there are things where I'm like, well, that, they can't be talking about the Wolfman. That movie didn't come out yet. But then I'm like, nobody cares about this, but me really. And it gets in the way of the story wins. You know, when it's between facts and the story, often it's the story that wins.

Why can't I, like literally nobody remembers Studio 16 on the Sunset Strip exactly. Other than comedy writers. Everyone that I talk to every day. It literally is a reference point every second of the day that I, you know, so it's just like when it's your thing. Yeah, nobody knows how to recreate it. No, that's what I wanted to agree with Halley on the point of, yeah, if you are intimately familiar with the thing,

you're always gonna be disappointed by the way it is depicted. I would hear the same sorts of assessments of like, oh, they clearly did this on the Daily Ship because of this, and you have no fucking idea. You have a bullshit understanding. The thing is like, and that's like show biz. A thing that people, that's like widely reported about.

So people have like this idea that they understand it. And even so, they're wrong. But that's fine. You know, that's like, why should you know about it if it's not your thing? And likewise, I agree with Elliott, where I'm writing as a screenplay right now that, you know, like most screenplays

will probably remain unproduced. But among other things, for instance, I'm like looking into the workings of chimneys. I'm like, okay, does a chimney work like this? Maybe not, but it works close enough that for my story, I will write it like this and 90% of people won't give a shit. And that is so damn, this is a dark reimagining of Burke from Mary Poppins and I can't wait to see it.

Burke, exclamation point. But like, no, it's true. Like at a certain point, you have to make that judgment. Like, does this serve the writing that it is 100% accurate? Well, then maybe it's not as important. But I also don't think it's like a decision a lot of times. I think a lot of times you think you do understand. And so you're just like, I mean, I feel like- Well, that's the other side. Yeah, that it's just like, oh yeah, I get this. So, I mean, I think that's more the reality

than like making a conscious decision to not represent something accurately. I think it's like, oh, well, I read about something. I mean, are you kidding me? You guys, when we worked on The Daily Show, you didn't feel like 100% like, oh, I get this. Yeah, this is wrong. This is right.

The Daily Show is a special case. I was talking more about movies, but in The Daily Show, very much so. Yeah, in The Daily Show is a special case. I was talking more about like movies, been the Daily Show very much so. Yeah, the Daily Show, you'd also get a lot of people who were like, I read an article about this this morning. So yeah, I know everything about this. So I'm an expert. Yeah.

I remember one day where I was like, let's do this headline tomorrow because I'm gonna need to catch up on the Brazilian governmental meltdown that's happening right now and has been happening for the last 50 years, sorry. Like let me step in. And it's like, yeah, no, I get people's frustration with that.

And I think there's also- I just had a flashback to the level of immediate expertise that was expected during like my early years there, your like mid years there. Yeah. And it was like, okay. All right. All right. I'll write a financial headline today.

Also, I have made very unwise investments. I think just taking it back to cars for a moment. I think there's also times when a thing is done wrong in a movie or TV show because... Lightning McQueen is totally an act. He doesn't have eyes. The cars don't really have eyes. He wouldn't say Kachow. I've never heard a car say Kachow in my life. There's only one town where cars have taken over and kicked the people out and it's actually not a desert town. That's what they get wrong.

There have been definitely times I've been working on something where I've seen something happen where it's like, well, that's not how it would happen. And someone says, yeah, but that's how the audience thinks it happens. And so if the car goes dead on the highway and they open the door, I think there's like this assumption on the part of the person watching it.

Oh yeah, when a car door opens, it makes that ding sound. Or like, yeah, when your headlights are still on. And it's like- I mean, that's like the worst example because everybody drives cars. It's not like- No, but- Yeah, that's true.

But I think for a lot of people who, there are things like that though, where it's like, you drive a car, but maybe you haven't been in a car that goes dead in the real world. That's the worst example, Elliot. Have you drive a car, but maybe you haven't been in a car that goes dead. No, that's the worst example, Elliot. Have you driven a car like this? To our listener, I apologize.

Halley has really had to. Dan, go to the next question. Okay. This one is from Patrick Last Name Withheld from the original Cash Podcast. I'm just kidding. You can try and figure out which Patrick that is. Patrick says, hey guys, I just finished watching Ballistic X versus Sever

and prep for your next episode of Flop TV so that you can date this to when that would have been. I'm married Dan, I don't have to date a letter. You're gonna have to, but you could. But if I wanted to enter a web of seduction and deceit. A madam web. And I had to give, we're gonna watch that at some point. I was watching, sorry, let me start over again.

I just finished watching Ballistic X versus Severin. Prep for your next episode of Flop TV. And I had to give a piece of trivia you may not know. During the Overwrought finale, I thought the closing song, Anytime, by Sam Waters and Louis Biancielo performed by Mary Griffin sounded familiar. So I looked up where I thought it was from and I was right. It was also featured in the film from Justin to Kelly during the emotional climax of the film as a duet between the titular leads, which leads to my question.

Has there ever been a needle drop song so strongly identified in your head with one film that you cannot help, but think of that film when you hear it, Patrick, last name with hell again from the original cast podcast. I mean, the thing is, like, I mean, obviously there are some needle drops that are associated so closely with one movie. It's hard to hear stuck in the middle with you without thinking about the rest of the part. The number one, with a bullet,

you cannot think of stuck in the middle with you without thinking of someone's ear being severed. Just a stealer's wheel. Intended with the song, yeah. Originally. I don't know if there are other ones that people have, but that is... I was trying to think of an answer for this one, but it's like, these are the things that came to mind. One is, I think they play Sweet Home Alabama when we were introduced to Killer Croc in the movie Suicide Squad.

And now I associate that song with that scene, or with that movie at least. Two was, when I hear the song all along the watch tower, the Jimi Hendrix version, I always think of like Vietnam helicopters. And I don't know a movie that actually does that. There must be one, but I don't know what it is or anything. And the third is, in that similar to Patrick's experience, I was watching the movie Gunga Dinn years ago, the old 30s Gunga-Din,

and there was a music cue in it. And I'm like, I've heard that song before. I've heard that music cue and dug through my VHS tapes, because this was how long this was, and put in Citizen Kane. And I realized they had reused that cue in the newsreel section of Citizen Kane, which is all made up of music that they had in the RKO library. And it was one of those moments where I was like, I've heard this little tiny bit of music before. And it was very gratifying to find where it came from. But otherwise, yeah, it's what movie? What movie is it? Is it doing that Vietnam to helicopters to... Well, did I ever tell you? I wanted to do a sketch. I never wrote it, but it was going to be just like the most stereotypical music cues where it would be someone narrating like,

it was when I was in Vietnam, I'm like, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, do, and then it would be like, or maybe it was when I was stationed in Hong Kong, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, and then it'd be like, I think it was during World War II. Ba, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, da, I was in Italy, World War II. Ba-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da-da- So I was like, oh, it's just gonna be so cliche. But then I was like, as you're talking, I'm like, oh, not at all, cause we're from different worlds.

Yeah, what is it? So I was thinking about like, I was thinking about like, and then he kissed me because that's such an adventures in babysitting. From adventures in babysitting. Exactly. Actually, you know what? That reminds, so maybe the one that I think of the most

in this way, which that remind me of is. Be my baby. No, well, the beginning of Gremlins. Christmas, a song that has nothing else to do but with Gremlins other than it's at Christmas. But whenever I hear that song, I think of Gremlins. Yeah. Yeah, no, I mean, like that's a wonderful Christmas song

that has many other associations, but you're right. It will forever be grim ones to us. Hallie, did you have any other ones? That's a good example. I was thinking of, like, the, like, Be My, Be My, Be My Little Baby for dirty dancing. Yeah, yeah. That's for dirty dancing. The one I think of is, hello, loveable, you know, come over here, loveable boy. Yeah. I know, but that's like, yeah. And time of my life,

there's a lot of them in dirty dancing. Yeah, but I think that, I mean, that was literally the first. That was four dirty dancing. Was it time of my life? Maybe I was wrong. No, I think because Patrick Swayze, he seems on hungry eyes,

and I think he seems time of my life too. Well, time of my life. So if you've watched the documentary that I watched about the making of Dirty Dancing, I guess it wasn't written for Dirty Dancing, but it was original to it. Like they went through a lot of songs that had been, that were submitted to be the song for Dirty Dancing.

You know, they were looking through songs that were from music publishers that hadn't been released yet, I guess. But, and there's also a, She's Like the Wind, is that the, you know. Through My Dreams. He's saying that. Yeah, is that the, you know? Do my dreams. He's saying that. Yeah, he's saying that one.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Dirty dancing, what a great soundtrack for dirty dancing. It's a great soundtrack, yeah. Hits of the 50s, 80s and today. Yeah. Well, not today, but I guess that.

They looked at the future. They had a few Olivia Rodrigo tunes. Yeah, well, they're dancing and it's like, Britney bitch or whatever that song is that Halle says everybody knows, but I didn't know it. It's Britney bitch. All right, Elliot, you just text Sarv and ask if she knows. It would not surprise me at all if Sarv knows it.

I would surprise you if most people know it and I don't. Yeah, okay. She'll get mad at me if I'm not knowing it. Our friend Lauren Sarver previously mentioned on the podcast also texting me recently about Madam Web and how much fun we're gonna have when we cover it on the flop. I'm looking forward to it, yeah.

Let's move on to recommendations of movies we've seen that we would recommend, I mean, you know, maybe along with cat, cat person, if you like. You would actually say cat people. I was, I was so hard. I keep almost calling it cat people, yeah. Yeah, I mean, well, there's, you know,

there's two movies called cat people. There's only this one called cat person. And curse of the Cat People. Yeah. Yeah, there you go. I'm gonna recommend, I watched on Valentine's Day, Waitress the Musical. Audrey and I dialed it up on your VOD. No, like Waitress is a film that she brings up a lot

because, you know, it's a film that I think has this kind of like weirdly long tail. It's like a sweet movie, a movie with a lot of qualities. Like it's not, it has like a couple of like, maybe like flaws, it's not quite like fully formed. But unfortunately, Adrienne Shelley, the the writer director, you know Sad story. I will not repeat it. Look it up if you want to find out it's it's just very sad. She she passed away Uh, she was killed. Um, you're pretty close to repeating the story. I mean

Yeah, but she made this movie, Waitress, that was a lot of fun, a lot of bittersweet, Carrie Russell is very great in it, Nathan Fillion. And then it has the second life as a musical that Sarah Borrellas did. And I had never seen it on Broadway, but they have done this Broadway filming of it that I think they did actually during COVID, they brought the cast back and for a limited time

and did this filming and it was had a small theatrical release where it overperperformed greatly. Like everyone was surprised how well it did. And it is just a really sweet musical. Like all of the qualities of the film are there, plus then you've got these great songs that are very kind of nakedly emotional. I was talking to Elliot when we're on our West Coast tour. I saw the Back to the Future musical because we got discount tickets and my friend Mary

like loves Back to the Future. We're going to go, we don't care whether it's good or bad, we're going to see it. And it was like fun and dumb and like there's some good stuff, some bad stuff, but like the songs were just so terrible. But this, I only bring it up in contrast to like Waitress where I felt all the songs like really were emotional and sweet and kind of gutting some of them. And it was just a really lovely filming of this musical.

If I had any critique, it was that I think that the shooting of it gets a little frantic sometimes. Like I think that sometimes when you're shooting a theatrical show, the people filming it think like we got to jazz this up so it doesn't feel like we're just shooting a play or a musical, but you know, it's blocked to be seen from the front. It's blocked so you sit in a seat and stationary watch it happen. And some of these camera moves kind of

fucked with that a little bit. But other than that, I would totally recommend it. I had a great time watching it. What do you wanna recommend, Elliot? Hallie, why don't you go first? Cause I'm gonna take a little bit of time with mine for reasons that will become clear when I go. Oh, recommend, Elliot. Why don't, Hallie, why don't you go first? Cause I'm going to take a little bit of time with mine for reasons that will become clear when I kind of go. Oh, okay, sorry.

I'm sorry, I would have been more prepared. But you were so captivated by what Dan was saying about weight loss. I was lost, I was lost in weight loss. Honestly. Yeah. I would say. Um, honestly. Yeah. I would say, I have nothing. Sorry. I'm so sorry.

I don't have anything. No, it's fine. That's right. That's fine. You don't have to. You got a busy, you have a busy life. Yeah, no, I would bring, I only want to bring something with sincerity. And I got nothing.

So Elliot, give you. All right, I'll go. So I mentioned at the top of the show that Hallie and Dan very graciously kind of scrambled their schedules so we could record these episodes. The reason for that is yesterday I got the news, and I'd like to talk about this even though it's sad

because it's something that I want to talk about. I got the news that my grandmother had passed away, my grandmother Barbara Prichelle, who was a very important person to me, someone who was very much the matriarch of my family, and a very strong person, a strong personality, and a pioneer in the CD-ROM indexing world of the 1990s. And who, to make myself the protagonist of the story in a way that cat person should teach me not to someone who she brought so many things into the life of and she's the person who introduced me to theater. She's the person introduced me to many of the types of movies I like the most. She introduced me to the opera. She introduced me to fine art. She introduced me to fine music. You know, She was someone who lived the kind of stereotypical life of a New York, sophisticated, liberal

Jewish lady, but lived it very well. And she was 95 years old and she just passed away yesterday as we're recording this. And so we're recording this early because I have to go home for the memorial. But I wanted to recommend two movies. One is her favorite movie, which was 123, the Billy Wilder comedy from 1961. This is James Cagney's last starring role, where he is the executive who's in charge of the Coca-Cola office in West Berlin. And the head of the company sends his daughter to be watched there because she's in love

with somebody that her dad doesn't like. And unfortunately, it soon turns out that she is sneaking across the border into East Berlin to be romanced by a communist and ends up pregnant. And he has to figure out how to solve this problem of how does he turn a pregnancy by East Berlin communist into a marriage with a West Berlin capitalist, basically. And it's a really funny farce, and it's one that my grandmother was a big fan of and made sure I watched multiple times. And it was just, I can't ever think about it without thinking about her. And so she's someone who I just want to make sure her memory was known better.

She is a prolific letter writer to the New York Times. So if you Google her, a lot of what comes up is letters she wrote to the Times, criticizing or complaining about things. And the first time, for years, I wrote a weekly humor column in a free newspaper called Metro. And I'll forget after the first column ran, my editor was so excited. They were like, we already got a letter about your column. And it was like, I loved Ellie Kalin's cock-eyed view of the world, signed Barbara Prichelle.

And they had no idea, because she has a different last name. They didn't know it was my grandmother that was writing in. But she was a very important person and I've been spending the past two days kind of like, you know, thinking about her when I haven't been helping my son with his California missions project,

which has been a huge weight on everybody's souls. But I've been thinking about her a lot and something that kind of helped me with thinking about it was not just thinking about all the things that she brought into my life. She introduced me to the Marx Brothers, she introduced me to Money Python and John Cleese's comedy, she introduced me to Preston Sturges,

all these things that are very, very important to the point of almost sacred to me. And I think that's a very important thing because it's a very important thing because it's a very important thing because it's a very important thing because it's a very important thing because it's a very important thing because it's a very important thing because it's a very important thing

because it's a very important thing because it's a very important thing because it's a very important thing because it's a very important thing and it's a very, it's funny, it's a strangely complimentary movie to cat person because it's also about a young woman who has a crush on an older man that is obviously Unworkable, you know, but it's much more innocent in some ways and and more mature and others and at the end of it There's just a there's this kind of voiceover Narration where they're talking about Kind of the eternal quality these cycles and it was just very moving for me at the moment

So I was all a teary and so I thought I would recommend those two movies. One, two, three, which is just like a silly movie. Like it's a real farce of a movie and super fast moving and super silly, which was her favorite film and the river, which just kind of helped me through that moment. And recording this episode has helped me through that moment too. So I really appreciate Dan and Halle. You being there for me. Thanks.

Well, anyone who made you is the best. Oh, thanks, Halle. It's very sweet. That's nice. What should I say after that? Well, we need to sign off. I know that. If you have it in your heart, go and give us

a good review on iTunes. There were a couple of bad reviews that we got for political reasons that made me very sad. So if you want to cancel out their vote, go to iTunes, give us a five star review, make them pay. And if you like podcasts, if you like the sort of shenanigans, go to maximumfun, maximumfun.org.

We got a lot of great podcasts over there on our network. Again, we're gonna do the drive pretty soon. So we'll be doing some special stuff with some special guests. Look forward to that. And thank you to our... Hallie raised her hand as if she was one of the special guests. Sorry, Hallie.

I think she is. She's a special star. She's more than a special guest. She's ramping up to... No, she's... She's a member of the family. Yeah. Yeah.

When you're here, you're family. And Hallie is first among those. But also I would like to thank our producer and editor, Alex Smith. He goes by the name Howell Dottie on various socials. You can find podcasts and Twitch streams and all sorts of things done by him. Music, he is a very creative man in his own right

on top of helping us. So look his stuff up. And that's it for the Flop House. I've been Dan McCoy. I've been Ellie Kalen. I have been. Ellie has been. Good night.

Good night. Unless you're listening to this in the morning, in which case, good morning. I was playing Uno with Sammy today and every single color that we put down, I'm yellow, da-booty, da-booty, da-booty. It was great. Oh, Danielle hates it so much. Yeah, that's what I was about to say, Danielle must hate it. Okay.

Okay, she hates it.