The Flop House - Ep.#442 - Joker: Folie à Deux

Episode Date: January 18, 2025

For our first full episode recorded and released in 2025, we wanted to start things off with a bang, so we watched the sequel to a love-it-or-hate-it film, except this time around most non-John Waters/Quentin Tarantino folks seemed to just hate it. That's right, it's the further adventures of that notorious clown prince of stair dancing, the Jokester, in... Joker: Folie à Deux, the film that got the lowest Cinemascore EVER for a "superhero movie." What will WE make of it?The two LA fire-related fundraisers Elliott mentions in the episode:https://www.gofundme.com/f/help-pjtc-rebuild-after-the-eaton-canyon-firehttps://www.gofundme.com/f/aid-for-denison-familys-fire-lossWe’re in season 2 of FlopTV! Pop in for individual episodes, or get a price break with a season pass! Peruse the full line-up and/or get tickets here! And hey, while you’re clicking on stuff, why not subscribe to our NEWSLETTER, “Flop Secrets?!”Wikipedia page for Joker: Folie à DeuxRecommended in this episode:Thirty Day Princess (1934)Babygirl (2024)Good Morning (1959)Go to Squarespace.com for a free trial, and when you’re ready to launch, go to www.squarespace.com/FLOP to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Go to RocketMoney.com/FLOP today.

Hi, Floppers. Before we start this episode, I just wanted to remind you we are in the middle of FlopTV Season 2. That's right, the one-hour internet televised Flophouse TV show is here for you the first Saturday of every month through February. Just go to theflophouse.simpleTix.com and get your tickets or season pass for this all-new Flophouse TV stuff. For covering movies we've never covered before, we've got video segments, it's amazing. Just go to theflophouse.simple-ticks.com for Flop TV Season 2. This time, it's personal. On this episode, we discuss Joker. Oh man, we got a Pepe LePee situation going on over here.

Dan, stop assaulting that cat. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Hey everyone and welcome to the Flophouse. I'm Dan McCoy. I'm that Stuart Wellington. Oh, that one. I'm Elliott Kalin and I don't want to start things off on a negative note, but... On this all positive podcast? Your performance reviews on this all positive podcast. We're only saying good things about things.

I wanted to apologize if the recording audio quality on my side of things is not at its tippy top. I am not at my home right now. We're recording this during the time of the Los Angeles fires of early 2025, because 2025 just couldn't wait to get the bad stuff out right off the bat. Just wanted to do it early. And I'm okay.

My family and I, we left the city because our house was a little bit too close to where we were comfortable with being, when it comes to being close to fire. But luckily for us, we've been very lucky and it seems like our house is okay and we'll be returning to it. But I wanted to say, you'll be hearing this a week later,

but a lot of people have been devastated by what happened, both emotionally and also in terms of losing their homes. And so I wanted to encourage anyone listening to even though this was a week ago, and hopefully by the time you're listening to this, those fires will be put out. Please do, if you can, donate to any one of the number of excellent causes that are available to help people.

There's so many of them that honestly I'm not sure which is the one that I want to point people to specifically. The one that comes up a lot is the California Fire Foundation. But there's a number of other good ones. If you Google, how can I help Los Angeles Fire, there'll be a lot of good options for you. But two personal ones that I wanted to draw attention to, if that's okay with Dan and Stuart, and I help Los Angeles Fire, there'll be a lot of good options for you. But two personal ones that I wanted to draw attention to, if that's okay with Dan and Stuart, these are not organizations for people

that paid for ad space spots. And I know that Dan is really kind of like a stickler about this issue. That's right. Mm-hmm. That he makes me pay when I promote my own stuff. There's two GoFundMe's that are especially close to me. One is for a family named the Denisons.

Their son is one of my younger son's best friends. Their house was unfortunately completely destroyed. They lost almost everything that they own. And there's an aid fund just for helping them restock as they are finding a place to live in the meantime. If you go to GoFundMe and you search for aid for Denison families' fire loss, that's D-E-N-I-S-O-N, aid for Denison families' fire loss.

Please, if you feel an interest in donating to help them, or in addition to something that's a bigger issue, is that the synagogue where that same younger son, he's just a bad news kid who has a, who is cursed, the synagogue where he went to preschool and which is kind of our Jewish community in the area, PJTC, the Pasadena Jewish Templin Center, was completely burned to the ground. And it was very traumatic for us seeing the pictures of this place that we used to take him every single day,

and that we still go to for events just destroyed. And so if you go on GoFundMe and you go to help PJTC rebuild after the Eaton fire, again search for help P as in Paul or Pasadena, JTC rebuild after the Eaton fire, any amount that you can help in getting them off the ground would be fantastic. They've been there for about a century as a synagogue and Jewish center. And that building just needs to be rebuilt

because they, you know, it was destroying the fire. And so those are two that would mean a lot to me if any listeners wanted to help with them. But otherwise, if you'd rather help in the broader sense with one of the larger organizations, please do so wherever you want to donate your money or goods if the place are accepting goods. As a Southern Californian, I would greatly appreciate it.

And as a friend of the Denizens, and as a kind of unofficial member, we never fully joined the synagogue, but we do buy tickets to the high holy days sometimes. As someone who spends a lot of time around PJTC and is very close to a lot of the people who are members there, those are two GoFundMe's that I would really appreciate it if people donated to.

So thank you very much. I'm completely safe, and so don't worry about me. And if you wanna mail me like an envelope full of 20s, I'll donate it to this stuff. I'm still worried about you every day, Elliot. I'll just skim a little off of 20s, I'll donate it to this stuff. I'm worried about you every day, Elliott. Thanks. I'll just skim a little off the top and then I'll donate the rest. Yeah.

Well, we're very glad for that. Obviously, we're very glad for that. But also, as you say, this will come out later, a week later than when we're recording it. God willing, the news will still be the same then. But for all those who've been- The news that LA will be on fire? No, Dan. No, we want news will still be the same then. But for all those who've been- The news that LA will be on fire? No, Dan. No, we want the fire to be over by then.

I don't want that to be. No. The news I'm about to say, God willing, will still be the same. As far as I know, all the MaxFun workers and hosts in the area are safe and well. And we hope that that continues certainly. But obviously many, many, many people have been impacted terribly by this. So I'm glad that you started off with this plea.

Thank you. Yeah, it'll be hopefully by the time you listen to this, those fires will be out and people will be safe. But a lot of people are gonna need help getting their lives back on track, back together, and especially people in the area of Altadena, which is very close to where I live and where a lot of the people we know live.

And so, yeah, if you can help out to help all those people, that'd be wonderful. So without further ado, let's start talking about something positive and fun. Let's start this comedy show. Joker Folly-a-doo, a laugh riot. Well, with a name like that ado a lot with a name like that You know the name like that. That's a comedy right and it's written by famed comedy director comedy director

You've got the hangover director. It's got that the classic clown prince of crime the Joker It's got the word folly in the title and just like Stephen Sondheim's funniest play folly So, you know, it's gonna be a laugh, L-A-F-F, Ryan. Right guys? That it is, that it is. Now have you guys seen the first Joker movie? From now on we will refer to it as Joker One. Didn't we cover Joker on the podcast or did we not?

No we did not. We did not do it. Oh we should have, because I did not like it. Yeah I did see it. No, I mean I think I didn't like it, but I don't know if I would have had fun talking about why I didn not like it. Yeah, I did see it. No, I mean, I think I didn't like it, but I don't know if I would have had fun talking about why I didn't like it. And you know what, we can talk about it here.

It was a case in which I did not like the movie, I did not hate it as much as the people who really hate it do, because I think that like, at least I saw that there was skill in the making of it, even if I didn't particularly like what it was doing, and so much of it was stolen from other movies. It feels in some ways like the first AI movie where it was like, computer, put the Joker in Taxi Driver,

Joker, put the Joker in King of Comedy, and the computer was like beep boop, but you're right, it is the first Joker. It was a largely panned and unsuccessful, wait, all these Oscars? What? One best actor, that's why there are now, I believe the same number of Asian women

have won best, have won acting awards as people who played the Joker, which is two. But the, it was made a billion dollars, it was a huge hit, I mean, I didn't like it. I felt like it made a billion dollars, it was a huge hit. I mean, I didn't like it. I felt like it was production standpoint, acting standpoint, excellently done. And I thought it was all towards a goal

that I did not appreciate and I did not enjoy or connect with. But clearly connected with a lot of people. It made a billion dollars. And that can't all just be because the music and the costumes and everything were fantastic. But Elliot, it connected with people in a way that Todd Phillips did not appreciate,

and thus Joker 2 enters the picture. This is the curious thing. I wonder if, because everyone's like, Joker 2 has taken the piss out of the fans of Joker, and I wonder if that is the deliberate case where if he is just so not aware of what people connected to in the first movie. I don't know.

I mean, I know that he, I forget the punk guy that he started out with a documentary about, but I think Todd Phillips has this part of him that wants to be mean, that does not want people to connect with these things. But also, I think specifically, I do get the feeling that he has a being his bonnet about how like the real Joker fans connected in a way

that he's like, no, no, you're not supposed to like, want this. You know who also had that experience? Fucking Martin Scorsese when he made Taxi Driver. And he would see him in theaters and people would applaud when Travis Bick would shoot people. Even in his reaction to the thing that happened and being upset about it,

he is following in the footsteps of somebody else. So I guess with this one he decided he was like, I'm not doing a Martin Scorsese movie, except maybe it's New York, New York. Actually, you know what? He is stealing from Martin Scorsese a little bit. He's like, I'm gonna do my Bob Fosse movie now. I'm gonna take from All That Jazz,

I'm gonna take from Chicago. And the whole time I was watching it I was like, oh, this is like Pennies from Heaven, which is not Bob Ozzie, but with the Joker in it. You know? The guys- Yeah, yeah. Speaking of the Joker, let's fucking talk about this shit, dude.

Let's talk about it. Stuart, you loved the first movie, right? You saw it, you saw it used to pick, right? I did not care for the first movie. It was not a Stu's pick. I felt like- That's a coveted sticker, by the way. Yeah, it is. Whenever I'm having a segment on the Stu's picks. Stu's Pick? That's a coveted sticker. We're having a segment on the Stu's Picks.

I felt like the message of the first movie was like, life sucks, doesn't it? Isn't life shitty? Aren't people shitty? Joker. And I was like, I don't need a movie to tell me this. Anyway. Yeah, I mean, there's elements of that.

So Joker, Folly, I do, which what means madness of two or something? Yeah, it's something like that. Is it referring to the madness of making a sequel? Oh, maybe, I like that. In the medical sense, it refers to a shared delusion, like a delusion that sort of reinforces, between two people.

And also, I feel like it's sort of- A heavenly creatures, let's say. They're going for like a more. What a fucking movie Heavenly Creatures is. Oh, what a great movie. And also like in a more foo, you know, like a crazy love. Cause I assume they're trying to have like two of hearts, two hearts that beat as one, two of hearts.

I need you, I need you. That's what I got from it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Okay, so the movie opens with a Chuck Jones-esque cartoon. I say this is more tech-savory or Bob Clampett-esque. I was waiting for Ellie to come in. Yeah, that's why I gave you guys space. I don't know, we've been working together for a while now.

Yeah, yeah, thank you, Arthur. Glad you left it. Okay, so there's a little cartoon. You knew Chuck Jones was on my mind because I just rewatched Gremlins and he makes a cameo appearance in it. So the movie begins with a cartoon and the cartoon is kind of a recap of the climax of the first Joker film,

but it has a slight spin on it where Joker is bedeviled and tormented by a shadow version of himself, which seems to be committing crimes or whatnot. And then that shadow self basically frames Joker for... Because Joker just has a song in his heart and it frames Joker and he gets beaten up by the police. He just wants to have a laugh, you know? I gotta say, this was a strong opening to me.

Yes. When this started I was like, oh, maybe this will be good. Like, the animation is beautiful. The way it's put together is really good. And it feels like, oh, they're doing, it's not just, I mean, they're still taking a style that someone else pioneered, but it was like, oh, this wasn't what I expected at all

from the start of this. And it's speaking on a metaphorical level that I enjoyed. So yeah, what did you guys think? Yeah, I mean, this was the high point of the movie for me. What do you think? Right at the start. It sums up the movie, of the movie for me. What do you think? Right at the start. It sums up the movie, like the themes very well. I do think there's like a certain part of it

where I'm like, I mean, look, I do feel people who have mental illnesses that cause them to be violent, which is a very small portion of mental illness, it's been pointed out very frequently that, you know, they're more likely to be... Movies make it pretty clear that there's an army of maniacs that are out there all the time. And the fucking New York Post! Yes, movies tend to...

Well, that's like a movie in newspaper form. Blame mental illness when those with mental illnesses tend to be victims more often than perpetrators, but it's an odd thing where I do think the movie, it paints the themes well, but it's also sort of like, you should be really sad for this murdering guy. Well, that's part of the issue with the movie is like, hey, this guy who you saw kill all those people, he's really the, he's the one who got hurt here.

But also, I don't know that the cartoon, I don't know the cartoon and the movie are buying into the mental illness storyline. To me, it felt more like this was about, there's this duality in his character that everyone has, but it's particularly bad in him. That he has the dark side of this perverse id. Yeah, I do think he rejects that by the end himself

in the movie. But that's the note it kicks off on. Yeah, we'll get there. So it then cuts to live action. Arthur Fleck, played by Joaquin Phoenix, looking very malnourished, beaten up. This, what seems like at least a year or so later after the events of the first film, is currently imprisoned in Arkham Asylum, awaiting trial.

There has been a TV movie about him, and we see him, we are introduced to him emptying out his piss bucket with all the other inmates. He is tormented by his guards, the lead guard Jackie Sullivan, played by Brendan Gleeson. I checked, I checked. Hitting a similar note from Paddington too. But he's on the other side of the bars this time.

He's a prisoner. But I checked. All his fingers were there, which makes me think there was some trickery and lying on the set of Banshees of Inisheeran, you know. Yes, but movie magic. I'm glad that you answered the question that I had which is is that supposed to be a piss bucket? because Liquid out like a lot of liquid. He's been saving it up. He's been saying I thought your question was gonna be is that the same

Characters in Paddington, too. Yeah Okay, so he he has to meet his lawyer Played by Katherine Keener. Her name is Mary Ann Stewart, who is pushing him. She is very protective of him, and she doesn't seem, honestly doesn't seem to have, seems to have his best interest at heart, and she is pushing for a plea of insanity with like an edge on like a disassociated behavior

or like multiple personalities. Yes, she's trying to sell the idea that he has multiple personalities and that Arthur Fleck cannot be found guilty for the crimes of the Joker because he is a he's a sick individual rather than a criminal heinous you know perpetrator of horrible violent crimes. Yeah. Katharine Keener can't be unhappy when she shows up in a movie. Oh, he's good.

This movie has a great cast. Yeah. Like Steve Coogan shows up in one scene and I good, always good. This movie has a great cast. Steve Coogan shows up in one scene and I was like, didn't expect that. Great, yeah. And I think they're all doing, I would say good work with what they are told to do. Maybe what they are told to do I don't agree with,

but they're executing it very well. Much like the film Megalopolis, there are a number of performers who are doing what they need to do in this film, even though they are running a great race, even though the race is headed towards a cliff, basically. So Arthur gets set up for music therapy. I'm going to jump around a little bit.

Yes, that's fine. This is actually, this movie clocking in at, what, two hours and 20-some minutes. I would say is padded Yeah, I was saying to you guys over text. I think there's a great 20 minute short buried in this two hour and roughly 20 minute Movie yeah, I mean the point has been made before but this movie to sum it up is Essentially a court case litigating the first movie Yeah, and which is an interesting choice. But you don't even get to the court case

until over an hour into the film. It's true. A lot of the movie is, this is how depressing it is to be in jail. And it's like, yeah, it sucks. I get it, like, that's what Shawshank Redemption is about. We saw that. Like, you don't have to do a show that's all of that.

There's a version of this movie that shows Joker. Yeah, Elliot's saying like, who cares? The American prison industrial complex has been fixed already. No, I think from a storytelling point of view, there's a version of this movie that opens with him pouring out a piss bucket, him getting beaten up by the guards, and then suddenly he's at his trial.

Basically, or suddenly he's meeting Lady Gaga's character. There's just a lot of, a lot of this movie is atmosphere and the atmosphere is let's just say urine scented. You know? There's a moment where he's being like, right near the beginning where he's being taken by his guards from one wing to the other wing and they go through a, like they go from one building

to another outside and it's raining and all the guards open their black umbrellas and the rain is pouring down on him and he looks up and when he looks up you see all the umbrellas are different colors. Yeah. And then it cuts back to them having black umbrellas. And I'm like, movie you're trying too hard here. It's, this movie has, it has a lot of style,

it has a lot of ideas for how to present a story that does not have a lot of ideas in it. You know, like I think that it's got at heart, again, just like the first movie, the production is great. But what the production is doing is not up to the level of what everyone else's talents are, you know. So Arthur gets set up for music therapy in a like a lower security wing.

And that's where he meets Lee Quinzel, played by Stephanie Germanotta. for music therapy in a lower security wing. That's where he meets Lee Quinzel, played by Stephanie Germanotta. You might know her by her stage name. Dan? Lady Gaga. Yes, indeed. So she immediately takes a liking to Arthur.

Turns out that she is familiar with his case. She has watched the TV movie many times, and according to her, she comes from a similar family background as him. She is familiar with his case. She has watched the TV movie many times, and according to her, she comes from a similar family background as him. Like, this is true love immediately. And this is a very different take on Harley Quinn than we've seen.

The exact opposite of the traditional take on Harley Quinn. One that fits in this movie, but not elsewhere. Yeah, well, I was going to say, because usually, you know, spoiler alert for the rest in this movie, but not elsewhere. Yeah, well, I was gonna say, because usually, spoiler alert for the rest of this movie, usually Joker is sort of the manipulative character in the relationship, the abusive one. In this film, sort of she is shown to be kind of the poisonous one.

Finally. Leading him down. Well, no, I mean like that's, it's an interesting thing because it's like, well, I mean at least this movie's not buying into their like genuine like mad love bullshit where like you see like. Yeah, that sucks.

Relationship goals, like people think, no this is a terrible relationship. But. Do people really say relationship goals for Joker and Harley? There are some twisted types online. Oh, so the late Cormac McCarthy, yeah. Yeah, exactly.

He fucking would love Joker. He would love it. But they replace that, they do that by making Joker the victim, kind of. There's no kind of. Joker is excluded. I feel like between both movies, he is the victim here. They present him as relatively, despite a guy who murders people,

I feel like the movie bends over backwards to make him as sympathetic as possible at all times. Yeah, I mean, yes, he's the victim of life, but even more so, yeah, within the relationship dynamics, she seems to be the one to see him, but she sees the legend of the Joker. But really, he's a sap, and she sees the figure. Instead of doing the problematic,

the Joker seducing a woman into a life of crime and a kind of violent relationship, they have gone to the much more progressive women are liars who will lead you down the garden path in a better way, which is, you know, finally we're making some moves. Finally women can be blamed for problems in Joker movies. It just was very funny because it was like, oh, so you're going for the, literally the oldest story,

which is a woman leading a man wrong, you know? It's a, but as I was just saying. She's like, yo dog, eat this fucking apple. And he's like, what? He's like, I mean, this is the movie, I wouldn't have surprised me if there's a scene in a movie where she hands him, a scene in this movie where Harley hands him an apple and he takes a bite

and the movie just stops and get it, flashes on the screen a bunch of times. But I will say this, wait, I just want to say, as the person who's currently writing the Harley Quinn series for DC Comics in comic stores now, I thought I was going to be more irritated by their handling of Harley Quinn, but this movie is so outside the world

of the other DC Universe characters that it didn't, it only bothered me in terms of, oh, they're just presenting her as like a, as a manipulative bitch, as opposed to, oh, they've done something to this character. She's so not the character, so it's fine. Yeah, and within the questionable strictures of the character they've given her,

I think Lady Gaga's doing a great job at being this kind of hidden sociopath, has all these conflicted facets of her personality, is drawn to this, but is ultimately a sickness for this relationship. It's compelling. She's doing a good job with a weird version of this character.

Yeah. And so finally finding somebody who seems to understand him, this leads us to our first musical number from Arthur, where while watching the TV, he kind of bursts into song in front of the other inmates. Like a lot of the songs, I would say, you guys can correct me, but they seem to be standards. Yes, there's no original songs in the movie,

as far as I can tell. They're all kind of like standards and great American Sogmuk or like 70s and 60s. Or yeah, later. I mean, there's Stevie Wonder in there. Yeah, but they're all well-known songs. It's not an original musical, you know. And I would say Joaquin Phoenix has a, let's say, non-traditional singing voice. Lady Gaga, obviously, very talented. The remix has a, let's say, non-traditional singing voice. Lady Gaga, obviously, very talented. But I would say, I don't think any of their versions

add anything to the songs that they're singing. No, well, the weird thing with Lady Gaga is you've hired someone who has an amazing voice, but she is playing a character who cannot, who is not a singer. And so I read a little bit her talking about like, she had to sing in a different way and breathe in a different way than she normally does

because this character does not have that training. And so even her singing is not great a lot of the time. There are times later on when it's more fantasy, when she sings really well, but you get a lot of a great singer and a great actor kind of like doing hushed, not great versions of songs. This is something that I think could work really well in small doses in a movie,

but this movie is also kind of like slathered with the characters. It's like whenever they don't know what to do with the characters, they start going like, hush little baby, don't say a word. Like they'll just start like whisper songs to each other. I would say that none of the musical, I could be wrong, but none of the musical numbers

add anything except for runtime. No, I don't know about that, because I do like a bunch of them, and I love whenever Joaquin Phoenix is in a fantasy musical number and is playing the Joker, playing to the audience, doing a lot of that stuff of like mugging and doing kind of hand motions.

I love all that. He does a fantastic job at that. That's really good. That's the number in the courtroom later. I feel like it's probably the highlight of the movie. Okay, I want to say there were a couple that I liked. I liked his first number when he first breaks out in song and like does a whole thing around the room

with like the inmates watching TV and he's just He's doing it all with personality because as you say his voice isn't like amazing He does a fine job But like it's not his strength and I liked if if they could see me now as that are escaping because it's a more dynamic Scene overall what's happening? But in general, it's one of these like, oh, I guess this is a musical for the same reason you referenced Pennies from Heaven before. Like I never really, I've never seen the mini-series, which I understand is better, but I never liked the movie because it only seemed to be like, hey, you like the fun and escapism

of musicals? Well, guess what? Life is shit. I'm gonna rub your face in how life is shit and we're gonna put some songs in there so it's even more ironic and it's like, yeah, I get it, man. It's not blowing my mind with this, but yeah.

It is similar to that. Did you guys like my version of Tom Waits doing Hush Little Baby earlier? I loved it. That was pretty fucking cool. Hush little baby, don't say a word. Oh yeah, I love it. The devil's creeping in the bottle. That kind of stuff. It always turns into something about the devil or drinking.

So, and also, I feel like, I don't know if this is done explicitly. Stuart, he should be your favorite singer, Tom Waits, because you love Waits lifting. Mm-hmm, I do love Waits lifting. You're always lifting Waits. And he's like, put me down, Stuart. And if you're going to ask me what my favorite drum was, I'd say it's the toms. So, I don't know, they don't make this explicit,

but I feel like the start of these musical numbers coincides with him stopping to take, like, secretly not taking his medication, which he makes reference to later on. Oh, that's possible. To be honest, I kinda, yeah, I think I missed the connection there, but I bet you're right. Guys, I watched this movie twice. Oh, Stuart, I'm gonna give you a hug for that one.

So that's falling apart. Falling apart. Yeah, yeah. I just wanna, I don't wanna stop the forward momentum too much, but that brings up a question. Why not dance? The movie keeps stopping the forward momentum. It just brings up a question for me

about how this handles the music too, that I wonder how you felt about where it is all of the musical numbers are either dreams that he has or fantasies that he has. It never like truly seems to bleed into reality except for maybe the voicemail he leaves her on the phone and that handling like I kind, I kind of, I don't know, I kind of wanted to see it break the bonds and mess up those lines a little bit more.

But what do you guys think? I don't know, I mean, I feel like that's part of why it, I feel like that's part of why I feel like my attitude that it doesn't add much is because it always feels like it's outside of the narrative. I mean, I think all a musical number needs to do, this is just not to take you down, Stuart, harshly. I feel like all a musical number needs to do in a movie to add something is just be enjoyable. And there are some that accomplish that.

But I agree that the rubric is so clear where it's like, this is the stuff they feel like they can't say out loud. So they sing it. And it does feel like once you've cracked that code, it's like, all right. And it's not like the songs make different points throughout, like a great musical, people are expressing different emotions through songs. And with these, it's mostly the same kind of

two or three emotions. But I think, but I do, I wish that they had a, I guess that's the difference between an artist like Todd Phillips and an artist like Bob Fosse is when you watch all that jazz, there are parts where you're like, this man is breaking down. I don't know where the line is between what's real and what's not real anymore and what he's presenting as in the mind, the character and what's happening in there. Or like a Synecdoche, New York, which is not a musical, but as a similar sort of breakdown in reality where it's like there's a certain. Oh wait, let me let me re-categorize some Nectar Key New York in my DVD collection. You had it in the musicals, no music section.

Right next to a raging bull. But I think there's a maybe that's maybe that's a the difference sometimes between a craftsman and an artist, is an artist making a messiness that is more powerful in some ways than a well-crafted straight line. Maybe this is just because I finished reading Sam Watson's book about Francis Ford Coppola, and he makes every one of his movies sound like a phantasmagoric, kind of like,

messy thrill ride, but maybe sometimes art needs to be messy, and entertainment needs to be clean. And this one is like entertainment trying to be art maybe? I don't know. I don't know how to say it, you know. I don't know how to say it, but I'll keep talking because that's what Elliot Kaylen does. And before we jump even further,

we do have to point out that like, the choice to make this movie arguably a musical is also part of that, like, the edginess of it and pushing back against some of the fans, right? Is that the feeling, like, that there's an effort to be like? I'm not sure about that. I think that that's possibly part of it, but if so, it's bungled so much by Todd Phillips, like, even though this is clearly, as far as I'm concerned, a musical,

like it breaks into full musical numbers all the time, like Todd Phillips actively was like, don't call it though a musical though, even though there's a bunch of musical numbers in it. I mean it's as much of a musical as Amelia Perez, which is considered a musical. But I wonder if that was deliberate. I feel like every choice you made was deliberate. Like, you want this? Well, I'm giving you this. You want a Batman movie?

Well, I'm giving you a musical. Because the fact is, like, Hollywood always likes to say that people don't like musicals. But I don't know about Joker fans in particular, but for most audiences, I think if they know going in there will be music, they enjoy it for the most part. Like Wicked was just a huge hit and it wasn't, and I bet you there's some overlap between people who like Joker and people who like Wicked. It's all nerds, right? And like, I think the, and also like even incels like music. I mean, they don't necessarily like the great American song book.

They're more into the kind of stuff that Stuart listens to, where it's really harsh and it's all anger at the world. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yep, it's all bring me to life by evanescence. But I do think the movie is doing certain things to push back at the audience watching it. But I don't know if making it a musical is necessary.

Also, if you cast Lady Gaga in your movie and the audience comes in not expecting some music, that's on them. That's their problem. That's their fault, you know. So let's keep speaking of Lady Gaga. Oh yeah. In the middle of watching a movie.

Is she in this movie? Yeah, well, I'm talking about her right now. In the middle of watching a, the inmate's watching a movie in the like less secure wing. They're watching the bandwagon. Thank you. With frozen air, yeah. Uh huh.

Where the song best entertainment comes from, which becomes a motif in this one, yeah. Lee sneaks off to smoke a cigarette and she starts a fire in the piano, which causes a big ruckus. And in the tumult, she and- It does start a big ruckus. Yeah, fucking, yeah, why'd you interrupt me?

I was running. So in the scrum, she and Arthur like temporarily slip out, like they temporarily escape. They don't leave the grounds, but they basically like run around outside and dance together. It's fun, I mean, I will say this about this movie. It is very, if it's messy in any place,

it is messy in the amount of security precautions around Arthur Fleck, who is somehow treated as the most dangerous man in Gotham, and also allowed just free reign, especially in the courtroom scenes. It is bonkers, the amount of rope that the judge gives him. Where Arthur's- I'll allow it.

He's like intimidating a witness on the stand in the moment, and the judge is like, watch yourself, counselor. Like, it's like, intimidating a witness on the stand in the moment. And the judge is like, watch yourself counselor. Like it's ridiculous. But anyway, yeah. They kind of- There's nothing in the rule book that says a joker can't be a lawyer. So they get recaptured.

He gets dragged off and put into solitary. He's visited by Lee in solitary confinement where she explains that she's leaving. They're trying to separate the two of them. Makes sense she's leaving, they're trying to separate the two of them that he's a bad influence. Makes sense, she's leaving. Yeah, thank you. And in the, but before they go,

she smears some Joker makeup on his face and they have sex. And I mean, I think that this is a fuck you to Joker fans because it is clear that Mr. Arthur Fleck lasts about five or six seconds. I mean, I have to say he's a virgin. He's gotta be a virgin, right? Yeah. Like, what's the, well, I mean, especially because, yeah,

he looks at her like, okay, that was cool, right? That was good. He's like, damn, that's some gorilla glitz. That's how it goes. He's like, sorry, I rocked your world, Harley. Yeah. Are you gonna need a minute? Yeah.

Okay, well, I'm not going to make any of these jokes. He doesn't light a cigarette after it, which is weird because he's smoking throughout most of the movie. For the first like third of the movie, his lines are, got a cigarette or can I have a cigarette? That is it. So shortly after this, he is set up for an interview with Patty Myers, played by Steve Coogan, and it seems to be a live broadcast... I love it when Steve Coogan does an American accent.

I love when Steve Coogan does an American accent. And he is able to play a jerk that's not over the top a jerk, in a very perfect way. He is, I mean, I've heard mixed things about him as a human being in terms of just being a jerk, but when it comes to his performance, he is my favorite asshole in television and movies. He is the best at playing an oblivious asshole,

a jealous asshole, a competitive asshole. He's so, I think he's so funny. And here's so, he's still gonna play an asshole reporter, but even then it's like, the movie is like, isn't this guy a jerk? Look at the way he's treating our beloved Joker. And it's like, one of them is a murderer and the other is just an interviewer.

Hold on a sec. And so this interview seems to be broadcast live, which is kind of wild. And his lawyer, Catherine Keener, is hesitant to have him do it, but she thinks he's prepared for it, and she has this very, like, mothering aspect. And at this point, Arthur, like, goes to kiss her on the lips,

and it's one of these moments where it's like, oh, yeah, this guy is so unused to anyone being nice to him that he becomes, like, obsessed with them. So the interview basically devolves into him singing a love song to Lady Gaga, Harley, through the TV. At this point we also learn that Harley has, that Lee is kind of famous and has been doing interviews about him. This is one of the weird things is that because it's so through Arthur's perspective, I had a hard time understanding what Lee's relationship

with the rest of the world was. Like by the end of that movie, at his final court day, she is wearing Joker makeup on her face and the police are escorting her past a crowd into the court basically. And I was like, does the defendant's girlfriend usually get like, who clearly is a bad influence on him, she's dressed up like him when he committed his crimes,

like is that the kind of thing that they need to make sure is in the room with him? I mean, that's a pretty cool outfit. You don't want that to get ripped up by a crowd. I mean, to be honest, it's the most Harley Quinn outfit she wears in the whole thing, you know. It doesn't look that different from the outfit Harley Quinn wears in my current run on the book. Harley Quinn from DC Comics in the whole thing. It doesn't look that different from the outfit Harley Quinn wears in my current run on the book,

Harley Quinn from DC Comics, in stores now. And can I just buy that at a store? You can just go to any comic book store, it'll be on the shelves, ask them to order the next issue for you if it's not there. I'm gonna think about it. Do I get it behind the counter, go into a special back room or anything?

Nope, not at all, should be right there on the racks, right there on the regular shelves. You can go into that special back room, Dan. There's some interesting material. Yeah, if you want to read Faust, you know, Blood of the Damned or whatever it is, then go to that back room. But stay in the front room if you want Harley Quinn, written by me, yeah, from DC Comics.

Okay, so. Yeah, Dan, if you want the kind of books that Glenn Danzig publishes, go to that back room. Oh, that's super scary and also kind of sexy. Speaking of sexy and scary, Joker, follow you too. Yeah, so the trial begins. The DA, Harvey Dent, is the prosecutor. Assistant DA? I'll let you go on. Yeah, it's fine. They are seeking the death penalty,

and again, his lawyer is pushing for a multiple personality diagnosis. One thing that I liked that this movie didn't do, although I guess it's on Arthur's side, so I don't see why, is so many of these movies have a lawyer who is like, you can't kill my client because he's criminally insane. And the movie presents them as if they were the real villain,

you know, and Catherine Keener's character, I feel like, maybe it's just because I'm so sympathetic towards any character played by Catherine Keener, even in Being John Malkovich, where she's kind of the villain. Like, but I think, I feel like she is not presented as a person who has a wild, like erroneous theory. Instead she's trying to do her best by her client. She is not presented as a person who has a wild, erroneous theory. Instead she's trying to do her best by her client.

Yeah, she doesn't seem to have an additional ulterior. She's not using him for something. Yes, yeah. And also during this time, Lee shows up at the trial, and during a recess she even interrupts Catherine Keener's character while she's giving interviews to like yell at her and make a big scene,

and she makes a statement that when Arthur gets out, they're going to make a mountain out of a little hill and then walks off, and one of the reporters is like, what does that mean? Which is pretty funny. Yeah, she's mad because in the course of trying to prove that he did these things because of his abusive childhood, all these things happened to him,

the fact that he dealt with this by creating this Joker figure who is to blame, he's mentally ill. Harley feels like this is making him look weak, like a fool. Like it's it's tearing down the legend of him that she has fallen in love with. And this is something I wish the movie was like a little bit better at handling, because it's clearly what it wants to handle, which is the idea that this is a guy who has had a bad had a hard life and was broken by it and committed a crime.

And to the outside world, he has become a figure that they can project their anger about the world on. But we never see the outside world, when they're like, there are crowds of people out there cheering for the Joker. We almost never see those crowds. Lea is our only representative from that, and she's so close to Fleck that it's hard to, like,

I know it's so, they made a choice to make it all through Joker's perspective, but I do wish we had a little bit of a better idea of how the outside world is seeing him, because he's so clearly a broken guy who committed a bunch of crimes, and his biggest crime was killing a talk show host on TV, so the idea that other people are like,

yeah, he's taken down the systems that we need taken down is kind of ridiculous. Like if somebody went on the air and killed Jimmy Fallon, I don't think that all these people would come out of the work being like, yeah, it's time to take on the system. Except Dan would. Except Dan would?

Well, because the system Dan wants to take on is Jimmy Fallon. Yeah, well, except the people who love the movie Joker have this sort of sympathetic, like we live in a society attitude that I think that this movie is explicitly taking on in the character of Lady Gaga and being like, look, this is the real sociopath,

the person who thinks that this is a good thing and projects their own feelings onto it and wants to kill even though they haven't had a tragic life, all this stuff. But I think she's so clearly, I mean, from moment one, I don't know if you guys, from moment one I figured like, oh, she's playing a game.

She's so clearly not a sincere character, whereas we live in a world where someone murdered a healthcare company CEO and that person became a hero to broad swaths of the population. Like that's what Joker's trying to get at. And I feel like there's a, in the real world version of it, it's so much more... Well, it makes more logical sense that someone

would be hailed as a folk hero. Yes, it makes more logical sense for taking that kind of hit. Maybe the movie hits me differently than it would have otherwise if a very similar circumstance hadn't happened in a more, in a clearer way. I don't know. Also, the guy wasn't wearing fucking clown makeup when he did it. There's something about the, they're bringing in especially the end of people wearing clown makeup as like a go-to thing.

I guess it's not that different from wearing Guy Fawkes masks or anything like that. They're all Spartacus at that point, you know? I guess so. That was the funniest thing at the end. Well, I guess we'll get to it. There's a guy who's driving Joker around and he's wearing Joker makeup and he's like,

get your head down, get your head down. It's like, well, you're the one wearing Joker makeup. Yeah. It's not gonna stop somebody, it's you. So at this point, Arthur explains his plans with Harley to his lawyer, who's like, actually, you know, she doesn't come from the same background as you.

She actually lives on the Upper West Side. She has a healthy family life. She has a Ph.D. in psychology. She was able to check herself in and out at will. Did you guys, did you guys, did this affect you at all? Maybe I'm reading too much into it. I'm sure I am.

They're like, she's from the Upper West Side. Her father is a doctor. And I'm like, oh, she's Jewish. I get it, okay. She's an evil Jewess who is leading him astray. Thanks, movie. But maybe I'm just reading too much. Maybe I'm just too prepped, you know, for that.

I mean, I think that there's a context as a Jewish New Yorker that, or I mean, New Jersey and who lived in New York for years that you're applying that like makes sense. But I think the movie is just trying to code it as like she had a privileged upbringing. Is Quinzel a Jewish name? It was probably Quinzelovski orwinzelovitch. They changed it. And then they changed it to Kwinzelos Island. Yeah.

And I do like... Because Ellis Island was for non-clowns. And Kwinzelos Island was for clowns, if it were reading the United States. I'm sure this has been addressed before, but at one point... The statue of Lafferty. That's where we're going. Jerry Lafferty? I'm sure this has been addressed before.

Yeah, man, right down the line he They make a point at the start of the trial to say the people of New York Verse the state in New York versus Arthur Fleck. So I'm like, yeah, okay officially Gotham is New York is part of New York Yeah, okay I mean, I feel like Eric Adams would be totally fine with a joker running around If ever there was a mayor who would fit in a Batman movie, it is Eric Adams for sure. 100,000, if ever I could see a mayor where Two-Face

or the Joker or the Penguin would show up in his office and be like, we've gotta make a deal, and him going, oh, okay, man, let's figure it out. Like, it's Eric Adams for sure. You mean the mayor who, when he won the primary that he was definitely going to win no matter what, he was like, we did it, so I got myself diamond earrings. Like, yeah, I pierced my ears.

It's like, yeah, cool, thanks. I'm glad that was the promise he made. Okay. Again, wait, so we have the guy who shot the healthcare executive. We have Eric Adams. The real world is doing such a better job of being a gritty Batman movie,

or realistic Batman movie, than the Joker series is. You're upsetting me. Dan, it's Batman's world, we're just living in it, you know? So Arthur confronts Harley about this information. She reveals that she did it all so that they could be together, and guess what? She did it for the nookie. She's pregnant.

She did do it for the nookie, in fact, and that led to a pregnancy. It can happen the first time, Dan, so don't. It can, that's true. Okay, so when I do it for the first time, I'll remember that. Yeah, don't use that. You could get pregnant the first time, Dan,

so please, you be safe. I don't want you to get pregnant without wanting it. On the other hand, she's smoking throughout, so she's like, I'm pregnant, takes a puff, blows out smoke, and I was waiting for Arthur to be like, I'm pregnant, takes a puff, blows out smoke. And I was waiting for Arthur to be like, well, stop smoking, but it doesn't occur to him. No, it doesn't.

He's too busy singing songs. Okay, so he, around now, he, I can't remember the exact order, but I think he dismisses his lawyer at this point. Yes, he takes over his own. He's gonna defend himself. The state brings his former coworker Gary Puddles. Wait, this is after though.

He shows up in court in Joker makeup and they're like, you're your own counsel. A lawyer has the right to dress their client however they wish for a court. I looked up all the pertinent casework on those. There is no way, there is no way I could see if Donald Trump, because he's the president, the elect, if he went in and he was like,

I'm painting my face like a clown, then I could see them going like, oh, well the rules don't apply to you. Yo dude, if you go to a fucking boardwalk somewhere, there's gotta be a Donald Trump in Joker makeup. Like t-shirt. But the thing is, that same t-shirt, you could wear it to make fun of him or to support him.

Depends on who's wearing it. That's why it's a fucking genius move, dude. That's why you could sell it that way. But the idea that the judge is like, Sure, it smells like weed and incense, but he didn't wear that shit anywhere, man. Again, that is also part of the Venn diagram in the middle. The idea that the judge is like,

yeah, you should probably dress the way you did when you committed the crime that you're on trial for, and then when this witness comes in, I'm gonna let you lean right close to him and talk and yell at him, and also, you get to interrogate him in a Southern lawyer voice. Like, he never butts in. The judge explicitly was like, okay, you can be your own lawyer as long as you don't turn this

into a circus, and then he doesn't stop it the moment he starts doing the like, I'm just a poor country lawyer. Dan, he literally walked in in clown makeup. Yeah, like that's nothing gets more circus than that. Yeah, that's true. But I did say this about the Southern lawyer voice. He sticks with it for a long time. I just heard I didn't like it when he started and then at one point I was like damn it. I got to respect it. He's still doing it. He's still doing it.

Yeah, a commitment to the bit that was unmatched. So his former coworker, Gary Puddles, comes up, and he is a character who, I feel like, based on the first movie, you would hope that he is gonna be sympathetic toward Arthur. He was Arthur's kind of one friend. And of course, the picture that he paints is one of Arthur being dangerous and scary.

And how he has lived in fear since these killings happened. He's been terrified since, like, you know, the Joker tries to be like, I didn't hurt you. Like, you're my friend. He's like, you didn't hurt me? What are you talking about? Like all of these things have ruined my life in certain ways. the Joker tries to be like, I didn't hurt you, you're my friend, he's like, you didn't hurt me, what are you talking about? All of these things have ruined my life in certain ways

and this is a moment in the movie, and Arthur's genuinely affected by it, and I was thinking about why does this moment in the movie, this is a scene that works for me. I was gonna say the same thing. I think this is effective. This is the best non-musical scene in the movie to me. The only thing I don't like in it

is the shot of the phone book scene in the movie to me. The only thing I don't like in it is the shot of the phone book that Puddles is sitting on to get to reach the witness stand. I was like, unnecessary, but you're right. Then when he says, I'm afraid, I'm scared all the time, and Joker drops his voice and goes, you're my friend. Like, I wasn't gonna hurt you, I'd never hurt you. And then when the guy's like,

you're the only one who didn't make fun of me. Basically, why did you do this? I think it's the only real emotion moment in the whole movie, basically. That's what I was going to say. I think that this movie wants to be a movie about, like, you have empathy for the wrong things, right? Like, you love this legend of the Joker,

you should not feel that way about it. You should feel sad for this mentally ill man. You should be sad for the damage that has been caused. You should feel empathy. But this is the only scene in the movie that I think actually has any empathy, whereas the rest of the movie is very mean to all of its characters.

It reminds me of something Todd Salons once said, where someone asked him, like, do you like any of your characters? And he's like, I love all my characters. That's why I have to make these movies about them. And it's like, really? Because all your movies are just putting people through hell. So I don't know if you're communicating the love

that you feel for these characters. And I think this movie is a little bit like that, where it thinks that it is making Flex sympathetic, I guess, by like shitting on him and beating him up constantly. But this is the one moment where he connects with another human being in a genuine way. Yeah, I agree.

I thought this was, I was like, oh, if this was the movie, this would be a great movie. And they also bring his former neighbor, Sophie, played by Zazie Beetz, to the stand, and she had a relationship with Arthur's mother, and a lot of her testimony is basically saying all the horrible things Arthur's mother used to say. No.

And it's very much a like, and it's painting, again, painting Arthur as a potentially dangerous, certainly pathetic figure, and no amount of like clown makeup can make him get the strength back that he was, I think that he was hoping to have going in full Joker outfit. When it comes time to call his own witnesses,

he says he has none, which I feel like don't you have to let the judge know in advance who your witnesses are? You are supposed to give them, I think, a list of witnesses at that time, because also there's the whole discovery period where both sides have to share whatever evidence they have. I mean, there are surprise witnesses, I guess, so maybe there's... Again, almost all my courtroom knowledge is based on my cousin Vinny. Which is supposedly the accurate one of those movies.

And your cousin Vinny is a great lawyer. I mean he got Harvey Firestein off the first couple times. Harvey Firestein? I meant to say Harvey Weinstein. Thank you Vinny. Terrible Harvey Firestein. I said Harvey Wirestein because I was trying to say Harvey Weinstein. I didn't want to say his name, so I guess it turned into Weierstein, and then I chose the wrong direction.

So forget it. I won't make any more jokes with him. Nothing like hearing Harvey Weierstein get off. Okay, so he... Go on. My cousin Vinny is a great movie. Let's just get to that. I was going to keep pretending Stuart has a cousin Vinny, who's a lawyer, but let's not worry about it. Arthur, then, before wrapping up for the day, Let's just go with that, yeah. I was gonna keep pretending Stuart has a cousin Vinny, who's a lawyer, but let's not worry about it. Arthur then, like before wrapping up for the day

and before deliberations and whatnot, he ends up like mocking the guards at Arkham Asylum, which means that when he goes back, led by Britton Gleeson, they beat him up real bad and assault him and strip him naked, and there's, what, is there an implied sexual assault? I think that is implied. Yes. I don't know. I wasn't sure.

And then they and then they and then they kill the other guy, right? They kill their guy. They kill his friend. Yeah. This causes him to Arthur when he goes in to give his final statement. He renounces the Joker. He takes full responsibility. Now he now he sits on a stool and holds a microphone like he's performing a show,

but he's just giving a speech. Do you think he had to ask ahead of time, can I have a stool and a microphone? Because nobody else uses a microphone unless they're in the witness box. Yeah, I'm sure he had to. He set that up in advance, yeah. He said to the judge,

can I have a stool and a microphone? And the judge was like, there's no rule that says you can't, just don't put on a show. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Um, the jury comes back after deliberations, it was super short, they find him guilty on all counts.

There is a, as soon as the sentencing happens, there is an explosion from a car bomb outside. We get classic movie tinnitus sounds. And some Arthur manages to drag himself outside. He's wandering the streets. He bumps into a guy in Joker makeup who then rushes him to a car. He is being escorted.

He's being driven away by these Jokerfied fellows who, as you mentioned before, is like, stay down so nobody sees you. Stay down so nobody sees you. Meanwhile, two guys with joker faces are driving away from the scene of the car bombing. The cops are like, oh, I only see two clowns in that car. There are probably only two clowns in a car.

Surely no more clowns can fit in the car. If I know something about clowns in cars, it's hard to get more than two of them into one. This is the sequence where the movie, very briefly, for like five or six minutes, becomes Bo is Afraid, and I was like, oh, okay, it's turning into Bo is Afraid. I liked most of that movie.

Okay, great. Yeah, so he eventually, like he escapes from them, and he goes running down the street. They chase him for a little while, and even after he escapes from them, they're shouting like, hey, we still like you. He ends up at the stairs near his apartment where he runs into Harley who is in full.

The famous stairs. The famous stairs. Maybe the greatest moment in cinema history when he high kicks down the stairs to the da-da-da-da-da-da-da, hey, da-da-da-da-da-da song from the first movie. When you saw that moment, wasn't it like, oh, finally film has reached the reason it was invented? It wasn't like flash entering the first movie. When you saw that moment, wasn't it like, oh, finally film has reached the reason it was invented?

I mean, it wasn't like flash entering the speed force, but it was pretty good. You're right, flash entering the speed force. That's the only time I ever stood up and cheered in the theater. You reminded me how unexpected, like even now I can't really wrap my head around the fact that that was the song they chose. I told you, I think, did I ever mention this on the-

Rock and roll number one, is that what it's called? I don't remember which number. It's not Mambo number five, because that has a little bit of Jennifer in my eaves. It's just the eaves of the house. Beer? So, I saw, before I'd seen the movie, I kept seeing on Twitter this one tweet that was like the greatest moment in film, the apotheosis of the Joker, and just showed that guy walking,

showing him one of the steps, and finally I clicked on it to hear the sound, and it was the, da-na-na-na-na-na-na-na, hey song, and I thought it was a joke video that somebody had made in order to make fun of that moment, and then I watched the movie and I was like, that's the real song they used?

Like this is ridiculous. I think it's Rock and Roll Part Two. You've been Jokeredified. That's right, Rock and Roll Part 2, this equal, Judgment Day. So he finds Harley, he is so excited to find her, but she rejects him. She wants the Joker, she does not want Arthur, and she abandons him, and he is then picked up by the police. He's recaptured, he's taken back to Arkham Asylum.

Where... So all the fans who were like, saw him being taken away in the car, and were like, this is it, this is when he becomes the Joker. That fantasy is shot down instantly by the police taking him in again. Yeah, and Arthur, both Arthur and the fans,

fantasy is destroyed. And they're also like, oh man, we made it through two plus hours of this movie. Time for the real movie to start. Now it's gonna be good. Time for Batman to show up. So they, while walking alone down a hallway, he's confronted by another inmate who tells him a joke

and then stabs him to death. It's not much of a joke. No, I mean, I'm not, I just said it was a joke. I didn't qualify. Okay, fair, fair point, fair point. I didn't say it was like a super hilarious joke. He says, Arthur, do you want to hear a joke? And Arthur says, yeah.

I mean, like Arthur, this is one of these cases where he seems to, he goes out in a moment where he tries to be like a nice human. Like he seems like he's like, oh, you know, someone's connecting with me. You know, connect with him as a normal person. Like, yeah, I'll sit here through your increasingly unfunny and insulting joke.

And then he gets stabbed for it. Yeah, he gets shanked and he collapses on the ground. And in his dying moments, he thinks about Harley. He smiles a little bit, and in the background we see that inmate carving his own face up, and that's the end of the movie. And did you think this was in any way supposed to be a tip like, okay fans, you want it to be a Batman movie,

here's how the Heath Ledger Joker got his smile, like was it just totally unrelated? I think it is a tip of the hat, it is done in a way that you can interpret how you feel, but I think the fact that he's carving it into his face, the smile on his face, yeah, is referencing that, and it's like, surprise, you just watched two movies about a Joker, not the Joker.

There was no article, we didn't make any guarantees. We never called the movie The Joker. You can't sue us. It's kind of tough. How's Arthur Fleck in Joker going to get out of this one for part three? I don't think, oh, Stuart, oh. It would be so funny if they hired somebody,

now they hire like, who's just like an action filmmaker? I'm trying to think of one that's around now. That they hire one just to do a joker 3 where he does get Out of it and walking Phoenix is like And running a crime gang and they got all the stunt choreographers that from the John wick movies But it is a lot of it is a lot of movie to never have him really be the Joker. And he's just a Joker. He's just a guy, man. Okay, so that's the whole movie.

We talked about the whole movie. We talked about the whole movie. There is no credits scene, I'll tell you right now Stuart. Thank God. Having watched it twice, I shut it off before any potential credit scenes. Our reward is getting to pass judgment on this film in our final judgments, whether this is a good bad movie, a bad bad movie, or a movie kind of like, I will say, it's not a movie I kind of like,

it's a movie I sort of respected in a weird way, like, I'm like, well, I see what you're doing movie, and I gotta say, I guess you're successful at it I just don't necessarily care to see the thing that you're trying to do like and you know part of the point is the movie's trying to alienate me so I guess good work but the movie did exactly what it wanted to do which is make you not have a good time so I guess I'm going to say bad, bad, but I also like, I'm surprised I didn't absolutely

hate this after being sort of prepped to by the world. What do you think, Stuart? Yeah, I mean, I would say this falls into the bad, bad category for me. It is obviously, it is professionally made. A lot of talented people worked on it. It's well acted. But the, it is like a big mess

and it's in a way it's like so self-referential. I find it to be more interesting than the first Joker, which felt Joker 1, which felt very direct, very specific, like such a simple, straightforward kind of piece of trash. And this one is like kind of reflecting on it, but it doesn't, maybe it has stuff to say, but I don't like the way it's going about it. Guys, this may shock and terrify you,

but I'm gonna say the first half of this movie, except for that cartoon opening, I would call a bad, bad movie. But once it gets further into the trial, I guess, at times it becomes a movie I kinda like. It doesn't sustain that, I don't into the trial, I guess, at times it becomes a movie I kind of like. It doesn't sustain that. I don't like the ending. But I do like that. Maybe it's because I disliked the first movie so much that this like was was operating on that curve. But there are times when I was like, some of these musical numbers are really like, and there is one

genuinely emotional scene, the one we were talking about between him and Puddles, and the acting is all really good, the production's all really good. I think that first really monotonous, repetitive hour of the movie hurts it a lot, but I think after that, it's starting to become a movie. I kind of like, and I stand by my statement that there is a good 20-minute movie

kind of buried in this, or maybe even a good hour and a half movie or hour and 15 minute movie buried inside of it. But it spends so much time wallowing in its own despair and its own unpleasantness and grimness that I don't really like it. But there are parts of it that I kind of like.

So that's why it's a kind of like rating. But that's also partly because I dislike the first one so much that if this is like, it's one of those things where it's like kind of like rating. But that's also probably because I disliked the first one so much. That if this is like, it's one of those things where it's like, Joker fans, if you really liked that first movie, then anything that is an attack, like a direct rebuttal to that, I'm probably gonna like a little bit, because my tastes are the exact opposite of it.

Yeah, it's like, Joker 1 fans, this is what it's like to have enjoyed The Last Jedi and then watch, what? Rise of Skywalker. I can't remember the fucking name. Well, I wonder if, and there's part of me, what it's like to have enjoyed The Last Jedi and then watch Rise of Skywalker. I can't remember the fucking name. I wonder if, and there's part of me, I also wonder like, so much of how you feel when you see movies affected by where you are in your life when you see that movie. Like clearly, Taxi Driver is a much better movie

than Joker, like it clearly is. But when I saw it as a young man, when I felt very alienated and very disaffected and very lonely, that movie spoke to me in a way that now I find very uncomfortable, that it spoke to me in that way, because it's clearly about a person who's driven to madness, and there's a reason why other people

keep him at arm's length. And there's probably wonders, if when I was 14, if Joker came out, maybe I would've been like, yeah, I get it. Like I'm unhappy all the time too. So, and then I would've seen Joker follow you, and I would've been like, what, huh, what? Hold on a second.

When's he gonna fight Batman? Huh, what? When's he gonna beat Robin to death with the crowbar? That's cool stuff, this isn't cool. Joker did that? I mean in the comics. Somebody should lock that guy up. You know what?

They should kill that guy, Stuart. I don't care what Batman says. At this point, his death toll is in the thousands. They should kill that guy, Stuart. I don't care what Batman says. At this point, his death toll is in the thousands. They should kill that man. They should execute him, you know? Yeah, I mean, I try to kill him every time I play Injustice, the video game, and my opponent selects the Joker, which I feel like is weird that the Joker and Superman

can fight it out Mortal Kombat style, but... That's true. You know, games are games, you know? Games are games. You know, games are games. You would think Joker would last about a second in that fight, except that Superman won't kill. Joker will. Hello?

Hannah? Yeah. It's Clint McElroy. Hi, Hannah Rugg. Oh my God, hello. I don't know if you know who I am. Oh, I do. I love the Adventure Zone.

It is probably my favorite D&D podcast. You've been a faithful member of Maximum Fund since March of 2019, and this is them rewarding you as our Maximum Fund member of the month. It's awesome. I love it. So what made you decide to become a member of Max Fun?

You know, it was so long ago. I'm not sure what the exact moment where I decided was. I think I've kept it up intentionally because a lot of those different podcasts have been there for me when I felt really alone and sad and just needed something to laugh at. Well, that's Hannah. Thank you so much.

Thanks for being a member. Thanks for being a Taz fan. Thanks for all the nice things you had to say about me specifically. And I guess my kids, I guess. If you're a MaxFun member, you can become the next MaxFun member of the month. Support us at MaximumFun.org. Join. Jackie Cation, hi, and welcome to the MaximumFun.org slash join. Jackie Cation, hi, and welcome to the MaximumFun.org podcast,

the Jackie and Lori show where we talk about standup comedy and how much we love it and how much it enrages us. We have a lot of experience and a lot of stories and a lot of time on our hands. So check us out, it's one hour a week and we drop it every Wednesday on NexmaFun.org. Let's take a moment to thank our sponsors this week. Those look at our sponsors. Joker. Oh no. No, the first sponsor is Squarespace who supported this episode. They're the all-in-one.

Well, they're sponsored, the episode was sponsored in part by, I tried to retrofit into that sentence construction, didn't really work. Sure, sure, sure, sure, sure, sure. If you're wondering what it is, say you're the Joker and you need a website, you go to Squarespace. That's how you do it.

Thanks, Dan, that was seamless, the way you tied that into our episode. It's a platform for entrepreneurs to stand out and succeed online. You can use it to build a beautiful, more personalized website that's tailored to your unique needs and craft a bespoke digital identity that you can use across one's entire online presence.

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make it look good, go to squarespace.com for a free trial and when you are ready to launch, go to squarespace.com slash flop to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Also, this podcast is sponsored in part by Rocket Money. So this podcast is sponsored in part by Rocket Money. Rocket Money, the exciting sounding service that helps you keep track of your budget, where your money's going.

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you probably are subscribed to a bunch of stuff you don't even know you're subscribed to. Every once in a while, you got to go in, you got to purge. You don't even know whether you're getting it all. Rocket Money can help you with that sort of thing it has over 5 million users and has saved a total of 500 million in cancelled subscriptions saving members up to $740 a year when using all the apps premium features So cancel you on run to subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Go to rocketmoney.com slash flop today. That's rocketmoney.com slash flop rocketmoney.com slash flop.

We've also got some Jumbotrons and here's one of them. Hey floppers, y'all are nerds and stuff, right? Some of you probably run a WordPress site or develop on WordPress, and some of you probably know about Gravity Forms. This is for you. Gravity Kit adds essential functionality to Gravity Forms. Build powerful apps with no code in minutes using Gravity Forms with Gravity Kit. Generate dashboards, charts, exports, and more using Gravity Kit add-ons. We have a

30-day guarantee and fully functional demo sites. So are you a WordPresser? Check out Gravity Kit. So visit gravitykit.com slash flop. That's gravitykit.com slash flop to save 50% off on Gravity Forms add-ons. We've got a personal Jumbotron as well. This is a message for Denise and the message comes from Brendan and it says, a very happy birbthday. I don't know if it's a typo or an in-joke, so I'll just spell it out, B-E-R-B-T-H-D-A-Y. A very happy birbthday.

You are a social justice trailblazer, an incomparable dog parent, and the love of my life. Here's to a new year of silliness, spontaneity, and good, bad movies. And of course, lethal dirgs. Sonic beggy hands and jumps abound from Rufio, Cassidy and me, your birb love Brendan. So I think birb earlier was a purpose.

I think that's a typo. That's a very sweet message from a birb. Very cute. I should mention before we leave the promos section of this podcast, did I mention that I'm writing Harley Quinn for DC Comics and in comic stores now? You know, tell me about it, tell me about it. Anyway, it's just, it's really fun.

I'm writing a whole run on Harley Quinn, the DC Comics series, and it's in comic stores now. If you'd like me, please buy it. Is it like the movie we just watched? It's actually nothing like the movie we just watched. It's a much more traditional take on Harley Quinn. Let's say that. In that it is fun and funny,

and she's a wild character with her own rules that she plays by. But I should also mention, we are coming to the end of FlopTV season two. Everybody, it has been a great time. We have one more episode left, which is February 1st. The first Saturday in February. We saved the one, I don't know if I'll say the best, but certainly the one that meant the most to me as a kid for West,

Ninja Turtles 2, The Secret of the Ooze, that's right, the debut of the hit song Ninja Rap, that movie itself. Dan, I think you said you've never seen it? I've never seen it. I don't know how. I've seen the first. I've seen the third. I've not seen secret of the moon. Well strap on those samurai swords buddy because you're in for a wild ride. You are. That's the Flop TV season finale on February 1st at 6 p.m. Eastern. Sorry, 9 p.m. Eastern, 6 p.m. Pacific. Go to theflophouse.simpletix.com for tickets. If you haven't already bought any tickets to these shows, they're super fun, they've been going great.

We had a great time talking about Ski School 2 on the last one. And if you haven't watched any of them, you can still see the recorded videos from all the shows. If you get a season pass, which is six shows for the price of five, you get access to all the videos of the previous episodes and those will stay up through the end of February, right?

So even if even if you don't even if you aren't able to catch us on February 1st You can still catch those episodes and it'll be really fun. It's all sequels this season We did RoboCop 2, Break-In 2, Caddyshack 2, Highlander 2, Skisql 2 and now Ninja Turtles 2. It's been really fun guys And there's only one episode left. Yeah. And if enough people like it, maybe we'll do a third season. I want to say I'm doing the presentation for this one and I know I say a lot of the time, oh I'm excited about this, I'm excited about this. It's just because I realized, you know, the fun thing about the presentation for me, sure, like look, I love making everyone out

there in flop land laugh, but mostly when I'm like look, I love making everyone out there in Flappland laugh, but mostly when I'm writing them, I'm thinking about whether I'm going to make Elliot and Stuart laugh, and that's a recipe for a good time writing these things. I got very silly, and I'm looking forward to doing it. That's gonna be, that was certainly my thinking when I did my video for the last episode where I taught everybody some common skiing terms

that they should know the meanings of. Really informative, yeah. Yeah, so that's Flop TV, season two. One more episode left, February 1st. Go to theflophouse.simpleticks.com. Thank you. Let us answer a couple of letters from listeners. Dan, lettuce can't answer questions from listeners.

It's a vegetable. All right, oh, in that case answer questions. Letters. It's a vegetable. All right. Oh, in that case, cabbage. Some letters from Lister. What? Arugula. This letter is from Finn Last Day Withheld who writes, hey, floppers, I was recently talking with my mum.

That's a subtle hit that this person is from the UK, I believe. My mum, Liz. Not a mummy. Could be too. And her best friend of 50 years, Laura. They were telling me about the trip. Is that also a British thing? That best friends of 50 years are named Laura?

Yeah, that's... Well, the next thing is certainly a British thing, taking a trip to Italy. They were telling me about the trip they took to Italy. I'm thinking of the movie, Trip to Italy starring- Starring famous asshole Steve Coogan. Jokertooz. Yeah. Steve Coogan.

Anyway, this is a- Jokertooz, yeah. I'm like second sentence in on this thing. They're telling me about the trip they took to Italy in 2001 and mentioned they'd spent some time- Wow, space Odyssey. Staying with Laura's aunt Helen, an actress who lived in Rome.

This triggered something in my brain and I asked if Helen's last name was Sterling. Laura said that it was, and then I had the great pleasure of saying, have you ever heard of a movie she made called Castle Freak? Wow. Laura had never heard of it, so I pulled it up on Shudder

and the three of us watched the opening sequence. When the camera first cuts to the face of the Duchess Dorcino, Laura said, that's her, that's Auntie Helen. And as the Duchess was whipping her deformed son with a cat of nine tails, Laura started cackling and saying, oh, Auntie Helen would have loved making this. When Helen's character died at the end of the scene, I turned the movie off and Laura made me teach her how to start a Shudutter account so she could show her daughter this previously unknown footage of a beloved family member. Yet another beautiful family moment,

courtesy of your podcast and the cinema of Stuart Gordon. Keep it floppy, just like Giorgio's very much attached ding dong, Ben last name withheld. Oh, New Zealand, New Zealand. New Zealand. Oh, okay. That's why you read the whole letter first, yeah. Yeah, I did neglect to read that part.

That is so sweet, that's such a sweet thing to be like, hey, here's your aunt with a birth to four son. And I hope they did not watch the rest of the movie after that, she's not in it, and it's something I'm terrified of. They signed up for a shutter account, so they have the whole movie.

They can watch it whenever they want. Along with Psycho Goreman, other... Other good reasons to watch the rest of the movie. Yeah, there's plenty of good reasons. Anyway, that was... Jeffrey Combs and Barbara Crampton's insane chemistry. Yeah. I was very charmed by that.

It was very charming. And we have a second letter here. It is from James Last Name Withheld who writes, Dear Peaches, recently I found myself enjoying walks, having an afternoon cup of tea, getting excited about birds in my yard and listening to Steely Dan. My question for you is, is this what middle age is?

And I have to say that in my experience, yeah, pretty much. Also old age, yeah. I do only have one Steely Dan album that I listen to very infrequently, but that is more than my youth when I would make fun of the very idea of Steely Dan being anything anyone would want to listen to. Which is ironic since they called you Steely Dan

when you were still shoplifting for a living. That was after the dildo that the band was called. I see. I thought it was after the band. I didn't really listen. After the same sex. It went back to the original.

Dan looks a lot like that metal dildo. I feel like I have, in my middle age, I do enjoy walks much more than I did before, and birds. And birds, man. I'm still holding the line against Steely Dan. Maybe I'll break. Have you guys ever walked and stood at the edge of a pond and just looked across the expanse of water for a little while? Yeah, yeah.

You ever done one of those? That's really wonderful. That's pretty cool, yeah. Pretty good. Then after a long walk, have you ever had a good sit? Oh, I love a good sit. have you ever like had a good sit? Oh, yeah. I love a good sit. What about like a cold glass of water?

Oh, wild man. Delicious. Well, I guess this is our next podcast. Yeah, I mean this kind of a... Have you guys ever smelled of fresh baked bread? I've baked it. Oh wow. I feel like it's more we're doing the podcast of Joe para talks to you at this point Yeah, that's great. I if only um

Well, those were letters You guys ever given a hug to somebody that means a lot to you I mean that I did before I was in middle-aged also, I don't know Yeah, probably not enough. I mean that I did before I was in middle age also. I don't know. Yeah, it just hits different. It hits different. It does hit you different, that's true.

Hey guys, have you guys ever looked at your kids and been like, let me memorize this moment because I know they're gonna grow up so fast and they're not gonna be this age forever. Do cats count? Yeah, they do count. No, cats don't. Muscles and meatball, every time I look them in the eyes.

I mean, I do occasionally drive myself to tears thinking, these cats won't be around forever. And then I'm like, why am I thinking this? Stop it, Dan. Yeah, you should stop that. It's helping your day. Yeah, it's not helping at all, yeah. Take another edible, Dan. Calm down.

And he's like, but Brain, I've had seven already. Uh-huh. Okay. Well, let us move on to recommendations. Let us can't move on, Dan. It's the vegetable that can't move on. We have to move on to recommendations. That's why Cats in the Cradle is called that, Dan, because cats are children. That changes the whole movie. It's just the whole song, if he's singing about his cats the whole time.

Yeah. Meow meow meow meow meow, dad meow meow meow meow meow meow meow Yeah, it takes me back. Well, I fed my cats just the other day. Uh-huh. Yeah, keep it going. Let's recommend I don't know enough about cats recommend You know, they'd lick themselves, etc. They lick themselves in the very same way They lick themselves, et cetera. They lick themselves in the very same way. Let's recommend movies that may be a more rewarding way

to spend your time, particularly since the Joker 2 is so long. I'm going to kick us off and in honor of Elliot, I'll honor him in the smallest way because the poor man is so stressed by recent life events on the coast. I will honor him in the smallest way by recommending. Don't recommend backdraft, Dan.

That would be super sensitive. That would be very taxing. A 1930s movie. Oh. I recently watched 30 Day Princess from 1934, a movie that is on Criterion channel right now. It is part of the Love and Disguise collection. That's Disguise.

Love and Disguise? Like, not Disguise. Oh, not Disguise, oh. You know, you got stuff like Lady Eve there. You know, Major and the Minor. There's deception in a love story. But, 38 Princess. Oh, this is why you were deception in a love story. But, for eight princesses. Oh, this is why you were texting me

about Sylvia Sidney. Ah, that's why. You put the, Mr. Policeman, I gave you all the clues. And unlike Harry Hula, it took a long time to put those clues together. You did it right away. No, I put this on because of Cary Grant being in it, and I saw the screenplay was co-written by Preston Sturgis

and it's a 70 minute movie and I was like, okay, you're winning me over. But really the headline here is Sylvia Sidney who I had seen, I realized later on, I had seen her early in her career in a couple of things, Fury, Sabotage, but didn't put her together with the woman that I, the parts I knew her best from, Juno and Beetlejuice,

grandmother in Mars Attacks, at sort of towards the end of her career when she was a much older woman, but here as a very young actress, she's sparkling, she's very funny, she didn't get a chance to do comedy a lot, I understand, but she's great here in a dual role as a princess and as a sort of brassy dame who's an actress

who's hired to pretend to be a princess. And it never hits like kind of the screwball pitch that maybe I would want for it to hits like kind of the screwball pitch that maybe I would want for it to be like super funny but it was definitely a charmer of a movie and I enjoyed it so 30 Day Princess Stewart that sounds good I'm gonna watch it I'm gonna watch that when I get back to my home I'm gonna recommend a movie that just came out on Christmas Day. It's pretty scary. It's called baby girl Just kidding it's not scary at all. It's supernatural and just doing what your body wants. Um, it is

Yeah, it is supernatural So space natural or super compound word natural? Baby girl stars, Nicole Kidman. Wait, she's a kid and a man? Webster's dictionary defines baby girl as. Baby girl and kid man, it's very funny that kid man stars in baby girl.

Yeah, it makes a lot of sense now. Well, we'll get to some more of these. So Nicole Kidman plays a high-powered executive who's got a family and a long, what, 19-year marriage, and she starts up an affair with a young intern at her job, played by Harris Dickinson. No jokes there, no jokes about Dickinson. Okay. Okay.

It's a perfectly normal name. I don't understand even where you would start making a joke about aets. Okay. Okay. It's really perfectly normal. Okay. I don't understand even where you would start making a joke about a name like that. Okay, so... Ha ha ha. And the... it is a... like, it is an erotic thriller that plays with power and control and how Nicole Kidman's character is like kind of secretly longing for a loss of control or giving herself over to someone else's power.

And it ends up like it's a movie about like yearning and wants, specifically like wants that you have trouble voicing or you're embarrassed by. And I found it to be really well done and sexy and funny. And yeah, it was a good time of the movies, you know? Take to your parents. I've been wanting to see that. I have a digital screener through the guild and have not been able to make time yet. It's got Tony B in it, Antonio Banderas.

I love Tony B. Yeah, Tony B. Tony billionaire. Tony billionaire, famed cartoonist? Yeah, yeah, the artist of sock bunkie. Yeah, sure, sure, bodies, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Dink and drinky bro.

I think, I think. I think. I may have made a mistake in introducing my younger son to Tony Miller's work. He did these books called, I'm forgetting the names of them now, he did these two books about a character where mice make a character out of trash and a little girl kind of becomes his friend and he's like Billy Hazelnuts, that's what it's called.

So he's always like, let's read Billy Hazelnuts again and I'm like, but we're not looking at any other Tony millionaire stuff, right? Because I think you're ready for it. I have a movie I'd also like to recommend. And then we'll put this episode to bed, shall we? Yeah. I recently watched a movie I liked a lot. It was a Japanese movie from 1959. It's called Good Morning. Is it from Yasujiro Ozu? Yes, it is one of the masters of Japanese film. You can tell because his movies, a lot of them have titles that are just a time of year or a time of day

and are very hard to keep track of. I believe I recommended his movie Early Autumn at one point already, but it might have been Late Summer. I don't remember. But Good Morning is a, it's kind of a, it's a short little slice of life movie about the people who live in a very small neighborhood. And the main, if you can call it the main story, is these two brothers who want a television.

They really want their parents to get them a TV so they decide they will not talk until they get a TV. And this has caused those problems for them, it causes problems for their parents. But there's a couple other kind of small subplots that are running throughout the neighborhood at the same time. And ultimately, it's kind of a movie about how important the little things that people say to each other, good morning, how are you, the things that do kids seem pointless or

boring, how important those things are in just keeping people close together and connecting people. And I thought it was a really beautiful movie, but at the same time, there's a bunch of fart jokes in it. The kids have, they have a trick that they like to pull with their friend where they tap each other on the forehead and then fart afterwards.

So I was like, this movie, this is a really sweet little movie, but it's also got fart jokes in it. So how can you go wrong? It's called Good Morning from 1959. Well, guys, you know, it was good to see you all. I am glad, Elliott, you were able to join us. We weren't sure if it was going to happen.

And I'm glad that this is actually, as you said, a respite for you from things rather than another horrible thing to deal with. I'm glad you are all well over there. And... Yeah, me too. I feel that way too. Thank you Stuart. Thank you. From Dan it sounded insincere, but from you it had real heart.

Wait, hold on. And I would like to thank our network Maximum Fun. Please check out the other shows on the network. I'm sure you'll like at least a couple. They're all good shows. I don't know people's taste. I don't want to over promise. I'd like to under promise and over deliver. Fair point, fair point. Thank you to Alex Smith, our intrepid producer. He goes by the name Howell Doughty on various socials. You can listen to his

music, you can watch his Twitch streams. He does a lot of great work under his own auspices. Yeah, best in the biz, that guy. We went out for a little holiday meal down in Nap Town, Indianapolis, where we were at a bar and some women offered us free Justin Timberlake tickets and I got to say, we considered it. Yeah. I mean... So that's a show of how great Alex is? Yeah.

That's a sort of magic. They didn't offer them to me. They offered them to Alex, unless maybe they were too intimidated to offer them to me. Yeah, maybe. It does happen. It'd be. Anyway, thank you, as always, for listening. For The Flophouse, I've been Dan McCoy.

I've been Stuart Wellington. And I've been Elliot Kalin saying, if your wallet happens to be as full as your heart, please do reach out and help the people affected by the fires in Los Angeles. Thank you for listening, and thank you for being there for us. Bye. Bye.

Bye! Hey Stewie! This is your brother Huey. You want to hear this song I made? Listen to this. Right? That's how it goes in Back to the Future. Yeah, he's like, hey Alvin, it's your cousin Leroy Chipmunk. You want to hear that new sound?

You want to hear it? Listen to this. Christmas is coming. Christmas is coming. Christmas is coming. Christmas is coming. Christmas is coming. Christmas is coming.

Christmas is coming. Christmas is coming. Christmas is coming. Christmas is coming. Christmas is coming. Christmas is coming. Christmas is coming. Christmas is coming. Christmas is coming. Christmas is coming. Christmas is coming. Christmas is coming. Yeah, he's like hey Alvin. It's your cousin Leroy Chipmunk

You want another new sound you want to hear listen to this Christmas time is here my guys I mean I guess it's called Alvin and the Chipmunks because it's like, you know Paul Revere and the Raiders or whatever but like Alvin's also a chipmunk, you know, yeah Yeah, it should be Dave and the Chipmunks. It should be Dave Seville in the chipmunks. Yeah anyway Dave's such a fucking dork. He is. He's a jerk. I mean that's his that's his part. He's like fucking John Arbuckle He's defined by his pets rather than by anything he does like Jane Goodall. Yeah a Lot. Thank you Somebody had to take her down

Alex leave this shit in What do you got? What do you got? That imposter. Okay. No one else is brave enough to say it. I'll just say it. Without David Greybeard,

Jane Goodall's got nothing, you know? Yeah, yeah, yeah. What's she gonna do, find the cure for cancer and lose it? I don't think so. No. It's been done before. Maximum fun.

A worker-owned network. Of artist-owned shows. Supported. Directly. No, it's been done before.