The Flop House - Ep.#452 - Summer Camp

Episode Date: May 24, 2025

The Flop House is headed to Summer Camp! A few weeks of sun, swimming, hiking, crafts -- we're gonna make each other SO MANY FRIENDSHIP BRACELETS that our circulation is gonna cut off! We're gonna have so much fu-- what? It's just a movie? But... it stars Diane Keaton, Alfre Woodard, and Kathy Bates, so with those actors it's gotta be at least a little fun, righ-- it's not? Oh, poop.Wikipedia page for Summer CampRecommended in this episode:Dan: Final Destination: Bloodlines (2024)Stu: Bull Durham (1988)Elliott: Little Murders (1971)Head to squarespace.com/FLOP for a free trial, and when you’re ready to launch, use OFFER CODE: FLOP to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.

On this episode we discuss Summer Camp. Starring Mark Herman. You know, that's summer school. What did I watch then? Hahaha, that's great. I like that. What else, he said summer school and you said what did I watch? Clearly summer school. I didn't want to summer school. Hey everyone, and welcome to the Flophouse.

I'm Dan McCoy. I'm Stuart Wellington. I'm Elliot Kalin. That's right, the Elliot Kalin from the Flophouse. I'm Dan McCloy. I'm Stuart Wellington. I'm Elliot Kalin. That's right, the Elliot Kalin from the Flophouse. Uh huh, yeah. That's how I know you. Yeah, your face looks familiar to me. Yeah, does my face look familiar to the listeners of this podcast who are looking at me right now? Yep. Hey, this is a podcast where we watch a bad movie. No, no, there's more.

Hold on, don't turn it off yet. You're like, just a podcast? A generic podcast? No, thank you. There's more to the premise than just that. It's not just a delivery medium. It also has content, Dan. We watch a movie that either audiences or critics rejected or both, and then we talk about it. In this case, it was a both.

We watched. Yeah, it was a both. We watched a film called Summer Camp starring Diane Keaton and Alfre Woodard and Kathy Bates and Beverly D'Angelo and Eugene Levy and Dennis Haysbert. Uh huh. Yep. And there's thatvy. And? Dennis Haysbert. Uh-huh, yep, and? There's that, oh, Betsy Sidaro. Yeah, and?

Nicole Richie. And? I don't know who that guy is. Josh Beck. Okay. So this is a star. Charlene was like, is that Johnathan Silverman? I'm like, how old do you think Johnathan Silverman is?

Yeah, because he's been frozen for 30 years. When the single guy ended, they just shoved him in a cryogenic unit. This is a star-studded cast. It is studded with stars. They took a star stutter and they just punched stars into the leather of this. Also, it has Eugene Levy and Dennis Haysbert, so that's two certified studs. And this is also, this is in the new genre, which is what we would call a book club, a movie where you take some older actresses

and you put them together in sort of a shaggy comedy. And that's kind of an evolution of, I think, an even older form, often like British actresses, older actresses sort of get together for like a heartwarming comedy or a little bit saucy. It's the latest version of what, in the oldest, oldest, oldest Hollywood terms, you would call a woman's picture.

A picture that is about women having feelings, going through some kind of relationship with other women or between women and men that is about more about their emotional up and downs than it is about like a tightly plotted, you know, Crackerjack story This this is the but now they're all kind of like Saucy comedies or kind of like lazy comedies as opposed to in the in the 80s They would have been like your your steel magnolias that kind of thing in the 40s They would have been like you're now voyagers. You know, so that this is the new this is the current version of it Yeah

The current version is the least tightly plotted version. As I put on my letterbox, it felt like the screenplay was falling downstairs. Like, scenes were just sort of... Dan, you should save that kind of stuff for the podcast. That's good stuff. Yeah, well, you know, I recycle it. I'm earth conscious.

Yeah, I feel like your letterbox reviews are just these dazzling, if you're not subscribing to Dan's Letterboxd, you should. If he's dazzling the reviews, and your podcast recordings are often you getting angry at us for interrupting you. But if you were bringing out Golden Diamonds like that, we'd never interrupt you. I love Dan's Letterboxd reviews.

This is not a burn at all. This is a moment of honesty. Very kind of both of you. If anyone pays people to review movies, you should hire Dan because he can do the job amazingly. He's great at it. For reviewing movies, or if he has to, he'll take his top off, he doesn't care.

That's true. Or my shoes and socks. Speaking of taking tops off, let's just get it over. Mid-middle range, I'm not into. Let's air this it, let's just get it. Let's just get it over. Yeah, let's air this before, you know, it gets weird. But yes, Beverly D'Angelo still looks incredible. Ageless, what a beauty. Yeah.

She can still get it despite what Dan is trying to argue with me. Did it get weird or did it just get weird? I feel like, I think he said, I have to say this so it'll get weird, yeah. I mean, this competes with- If I can't get weird with you guys, so it'll get weird. Yeah, I mean Weird with you guys

My therapist he hates me the thing I wrote down on my notes is at one point Diane Keaton You know repeats to herself. They forced banking to repeat to herself. I'm a bad bitch over and over again I'm like do I have a new kink now? If Diane Keaton wasn't your kink before, you got a problem. I don't know you then, yeah. There's a moment later on when they're about to go rafting and I was like rubbing my hands together being like, how covered up will Diane Keaton be for this?

How many turtlenecks is she wearing? How many scars over turtlenecks? Is there some kind of broad brimmed aquatic hat that she can be wearing? The craziest thing is in that specific scene of the three women, she has the smallest brimmed hat. Yeah, it's true. Usually she likes a big hat.

What universe am I in? I love her. I mean, any movie with Diane Keaton in it, to a certain extent, is gonna be at least a certain level of good to me. I mean, I've seen some bad movies with her in it, but it's almost impossible for me to not enjoy Seeing her in a movie even if she's not playing a Diane Keatney character

She's great in reds I love her in that and just not a character that you would think of as a Diane Keatney character You know I just I do love that. They're just like we are we are dressing her the same no matter what movie it is I think that's more of a Diane Keatney thing. I'm wearing the same clothes no matter what I just think it's great. I think it's great. I think it's great. I think it's great. I think it's great.

I think it's great. I think it's great. Probably, yeah. Yeah, you know, this is not a wonder. But then that's a throwback to, again, old Hollywood type way of treating actresses where an actress had a style, and actors too, and that style would carry from picture to picture.

And I feel like with Diane Keaton, it's a similar thing. It's like, this is what Diane Keaton dresses like, and it's great, it works so well for her, everyone loves it, why would you change it? You know, why bother? Well, what you were saying about always being happy to see her though, I wanna say that dovetails into something

I just wanna say that like me. Dovetails into? I don't wanna get ahead of ourselves with Final Judgment. Like we actually really tend to like these types of movies here at the Flophouse, because it is like, oh yeah, we get to see these great performers doing things that and unfortunately don't get to do other stuff But this may be one of the shaggyest versions of this kind of thing that we've gotten thus far

The highs of like 80 for Brady for If this this movie so shaggy that it's almost a DA. Because there was a shaggy DA once. OK, guys. So shaggy, it's going to claim that it wasn't him when being caught. Exactly. And do you have a shaggy reference that you can throw to? It's so shaggy, it hangs out with a large dog. And that's the one I was up to. Three completely different shaggy. We did it. We did it.

OK, so let's talk about this. I'm really glad that you guys both, just to pull back the curtain, both Dan and Elliott thought they were doing the summary. It's a real mix them up. Something that would happen in one of these movies. And they both thought they were doing the summary, which is great, because I don't remember almost any of this movie. So I'm very excited about this.

Stuart needs to go to summary camp, which is what we're going to do today. Now, that's that. And now now as weak as that joke was, that is a thousand percent stronger than any joke in the movie summer camp, because there's not a lot of jokes in the movie. There's when I found that the one part that I really laughed hard at it out loud was when Diankeet is walking out of a room holding a pillow and just goes fucking pillow and throws it down, which feels like an ad lib. I have to imagine that was an ad lib. So, okay, summer camp. Dan, unless you'd like to do the honors, I'll do the summary.

No, I'll stay on my notes if there's anything incisive that I wrote down. Keep me honest. Yeah. So, we start at Camp Pinnacle. It is an undefined past time. It's roughly the 60s or 70s. Is it? I thought it looked like 80s, but maybe I'm wrong. It looked 70s to me, but all of these women were adults, or at least Diane Keaton and Kathy Bates were in the 70s. They would have gone to summer camp in like the early 60s, let's say. Well, they're playing Itty Bitty Pretty One on the soundtrack, which I think indicates, yeah, earlier.

Oh, I just thought it indicated a lack of imagination on the part of whoever chose the songs for the movie. So, they're at Camp Pitbull. Real quick, were you guys summer camp kids? Did you guys go to summer camp? I went to, nerd alert, I went to church camp several years ago. God damn it, you make me sick.

Which- The worst kind of nerd, religious nerd. I mean, it's basically the same as other summer camps, in that there were outdoor activities and everyone was obsessed with the idea that maybe we'd make out with one another, but there would also be Bible study every day. Oh, cool. I mean, I went to Jewish camp at one point. Yeah. So, I escaped from several camps while I was a kid.

So, summer camp and I were not friends. And I actually wrote a story for a book that came out years ago, an anthology that came out from Hebe Magazine, the magazine that was about making Jews cool and did not succeed. That the, about a story about running away from camp and almost getting away with it.

And so I had a very negative relationship with summer camp when I was young. Now it sounds like a lot of fun. If I went to a camp as an adult, I think I'd have a great time. But as a kid, when I did not love outdoor activities that much and also people were bullying me all the time, I didn't like it that much.

Stuart, how about you? Summer camp, did you ever do that? My summer camp experience, I went to soccer camp a couple of times where I'd spend like two weeks. Soccer torte camp, you would do a lot of like middle European baking, yeah? Uh-huh, delicious patisserie. I, yeah, it, yeah, so I would do that.

So I watched this movie with my wife who did spend some time at summer camp. Cause I'll tell you, your wife and I have one big thing in common is that we are East Coast Jews and that summer camp is a very big thing for, especially New York area Jewish people. Uh-huh, and she went to a summer camp in Pennsylvania, Camp Pointale, and she, in fact, like two years ago, went to a camp reunion.

She hadn't been back since they denied her application to be a counselor in training, which was a huge piece of trauma for her. That's a big slap in the face, yeah. Which, weirdly enough, my therapist went to the same camp, had the same experience. Isn't that strange? Are you married to your therapist? That feels like it's a complex.

I will say that I mentioned East Coast Jews, my wife who was of course a West Coast Jew, she went to summer camp, has a very strong connection with her summer camp, and my older son now goes to that summer camp. That tracks, that tracks for me, from what I know of your family. And of course you have an East Coast, West Coast beef.

So many have died in our house. Yeah, it's really good. A lot of drive-bys. Okay, anyway. So I bring this up because Charlene, while watching it, gave me color commentary on whether or not, A, this looks like a nice camp, or B, if they could do that at a camp.

Oh, okay, I'll be happy to hear Dan's commentary on my summary and your intake of Charlene's commentary of whether they could do that. So we're at Camp Pinnacle. There's a little narration from Ginny, who we'll learn is one of the titular summer campers. Mm-hmm, go on. Took me a while, while you guys were watching this part,

were you like trying to map the different actresses onto their young counterparts? Oh, I was immediately. No, it seemed pretty clear that the black one was Elfie Woodworth. And the one with the skinny one with glasses with Diane Keaton. Okay.

And the one who's kind of like, who was kind of like sassy, you knew was going to be Kathy Bates. Yeah, with this other accent. Okay. Yeah, with this other accent, that's true. So we're introduced to three campers. And the kid with the eyebrows, you're like, that's fucking Eugene Levy right there.

Yeah, exactly. So, I mean, I didn't know Eugene Levy was in the movie going into it. So, he showed up. Did you look at the credits? I didn't really do a lot of intense research. The dishes were calling. Yeah, I get it. The dishes were calling me. The dishes were a nice respite.

Toss salad and scrambled eggs. You hear the dishes were calling me. The dishes were a nice respite. Toss salad and scrambled eggs. You hear the dishes are calling. Didn't know what to do with them. So I think it was the, anyway, we don't need to get into parsing the Frasier theme song. So Ginny is narrating as an adult about how kids love summer camp, but nerdy Nora did not. Until she met bad girl Ginny and also nerdy Mary.

And the three of them became fast friends. Ginny of course talks Mary through her first period, which is about as, I mean, this is a movie that every now and then leans in a more off color or kind of like raunchy direction and then immediately reels back as quickly as possible. Yeah, I don't want to skip ahead too much, but there is a scene when they all come back as adults

where Kathy Bates' adult Ginny gives them the gift all of small radio-controlled vibrators. Vibrating eggs, yeah. And I'm like, this is gonna come back into the movie later on. And other than one quick reference, it does not. It seems like the setup for a raunchy. At some point in the draft, there must have been,

of this screenplay, there must have been a scene where they're controlling each other's vibrators. Like in that horrible- They get it mixed up. That Catherine Heigl, Gerard Butler, the ugly truth, yeah. Was that it, yeah, the ugly truth? So I have to assume that at some point, there was a scene where they were doing that.

That's the movie where the cat's name is D'Artagnan Yeah, so anyway they get put together in the sassafras cabin just the three of them they become best friends for years afterwards They're always being reunited at camp. They really love it now. It's 50 years later That's why I assumed it was the 70s I think they say 50 years later, but maybe not. And this isn't taking place in the future. No, I don't think so. I forgot to mention this takes place in the year 2245 when it's after the robot rebellion and humanity has gone

back to a 2020s level of technology. Yeah, they're all doing it as a bit. Yeah, exactly. Ginny is now a famous self-help mogul, Ginny Moon. She's determined to get her friends Mary and Nora to this big camp reunion. Mary, we learn, is a nurse who should have been a doctor. She either dropped out of med school or didn't go

because she got married young. Her husband is always annoying her. She minimizes herself, you know? Yes, she minimized herself and puts others before herself too much. There's a scene where she is literally giving life-saving resuscitation to somebody while her husband is calling her, being like, where's the peanuts at home? herself too much. There's a scene where she is literally giving life saving resuscitation to somebody

while her husband is calling her being like, where's the peanuts at home? And she keeps answering and it's like, just take your Apple watch off. Like just don't wear it. I don't like this. You shouldn't anyway, but it shows that she's always putting her husband first.

Nora meanwhile is a workaholic CEO at a science company of some kind. And Ginny and Mary ambush her at her lab, invites her to come with them in Ginny's RV. And as they drive, Ginny reveals she had a stalker once. This is another thing that you think is gonna come up as a plot point later on, doesn't. There's a lot of like,

there's a lot of things that are laid in as if they're gonna be important later than they're not. Now Ginny's a big branding of course, also is get your shit together, which is on the side of her giant RV, which is kind of like, you know, throughout the tour bus. Yeah, yeah, it looks more like a bus, but they call it an RV. And she drives it herself, right?

It's like she doesn't have a driver. I don't think no, no, that's a character that they're really missing. They could have gotten some like weird old grumpy. Think about what adds to spice world. You know, we solved this problem of whether there was a driver or not in the middle of... No, I'm just saying that I wanted to say that this is like the first indication that Ginny, while well-meaning, a lot of her help is kind of based on bullying, which will become a bigger thing as the film goes on.

She's very much in the kind of like Dr. Phil, Jordan Peterson, if you have a problem, it's on you and you've got to fix yourself and don't blame the world, it's your problem. You know, be tough, be tough and stand up for yourself and be a bitch, you know. The thing is, I blame all my problems on that dang Slender Man.

I mean, here's the thing, so you got to hear Slender's side of the story because he has a good reason for why he's doing those things. I mean, he does promote- Because he, you got to hear Slender's side of the story because he has a good reason for why he's doing those things. I mean, he does promote- Because he has trouble finding pants that don't fall down? He promotes that unrealistic body image, too. Yeah, that unrealistic Jack Skellington body image that's been held over our heads for too long. Ugh, yeah. Ideal boyfriend.

I tell you, I try to get people to be on- have a crush on me on Tumblr, but they only want those Slender Man Jack Skellingtons, you know? If I'm not the Onceler from the Lorax movie, they are not interested. Negative 3% body fat or nothing, sir. Slenderman Jack Skellington's, you know. If I'm not the Onceler from the Lorax movie, they are not interested. 3% body fat or nothing, sir. I want you to have the body of someone whose stomach is eating away at your own flesh because you're not feeding it enough, yeah. Yeah, I'm only dating guys who have contracted the thinner curse.

Yeah, Botman's disease. Contracted it. So this is the hardest part of my job. You've caught thinner. They arrive at the camp reunion. They meet Vic, who's a kind of... So this is Betsy Todaro, right? And I'm like, I couldn't tell what

Vic's role was supposed to be. If they're a security guard or a program director or just like a general all around counsel. She presents herself as if she is like their personal liaison who's working just for them. But most of the movie is her yelling at them for breaking the rules or things like that. And I kept thinking the way this part is written, I wonder if this was a male part and then they cast Betsy Zadaro. Because all the writing is all, it makes it clear this is like, I wonder if this was a male part and then they cast Betsy Sidaro, because all the writing is all, it makes it clear this is like an ex,

like this is supposed to be like a veteran who's like tough as nails. Oh, I don't know. I think it was just like, this is the Betsy Sidaro role. I mean, this is the kind of character that Betsy Sidaro plays. 90% of, yeah. My problem with this character was

it felt like they wanted her in the movie, they just had a part to toss out to someone and did not write lines or it's all, I feel like everything's improvised. That and a lot of the Josh Peck stuff feels like it is a lot of improvising and ad-libbing. Yeah, yeah. It's one of those things where we have these characters

who are all all they're like What are the stakes really like all these characters are seem to be well to do They are at this reunion where there's no campers. It's only Returning adult camp. I mean camps do that they don't know what I'm saying Is that these that they're like treated like these like if they break any of these in many cases kind of silly rules They really like come down on them and it feels so strange because you're like you're an adult like you're funny that they're treated like if they break any of these, in many cases, kind of silly rules, they really come down on them. And it feels so strange,

because you're like, you're an adult, you're fine. Later on, we'll get to the point where Diane Keaton is trying to break into the room where the phones are stored to get her phone. And then they're sitting in the camp director's office getting chewed out, and it's like, yeah, you're an adult, just leave, or just do whatever. What's the authority here?

But anyway, but this is yeah This is the this is supposed to be like the Paul Paul Blart mall cop Yeah version of comedy though where it's like oh this character with no actual power You know is on a power trip, which I never find his funniest movies want me to find it They really love Paul Blart mall cop. Oh, yeah. Why? Blart con over here. You got that tattoo on your belly that says blart life. Yeah. Blart is hard.

We meet a couple of the other characters here that are, their old summer camp either chums or romantic interests who are now older. Of course, the popular girls are there led by Beverly D'Angelo. And there's also the, their old crushes are back. And they are, of course, Stevie D played by Eugene Levy. I gotta say, and Tommy played by Dennis Haysberg. Yeah. And they get out of the car to the strains of Sharp Dressed Man. And I gotta say, this is the one time I think in history that Eugene Levy has gotten a slow-mo, sexy intro.

And I'm not sure if it's supposed to be a joke. At first, I thought it was a joke, that, oh, this older guy, they're trying this way. But throughout the movie, they just treat him straightforwardly as like he is a handsome, sexy man. Well, the thing is, the movie made me realize, I'm looking, I'm like, oh, Eugene Levy is handsome. He just plays like such a goofball,

like fumbling slow all the time. I'll give you a secret. Even people in movies who are considered not handsome are handsome in real life. Like even, like I'll often, I'll watch singing in the rain and like Donald O'Connor is supposed to be like the goofy sidekick. He's a very good looking man.

Even the goofy side, but next to Gene Kelly, he's not, you know, stellarly handsome. But like even the, even Eugene Levy, yeah, like the idea that like, oh yeah, he's a good looking guy. Yeah, he's had a career in television, the movies for 50 years. Yeah, of course. I mean, I would rather they let him be funny in this movie.

As we, like I, you, as we were texting on the Flophouse chain and I actually said to Audrey, like, it's an odd movie where it's like, Eugene Lovey does not make me laugh one time. Is not even trying a lot of the time. I think he has like kind of, he has the kind of lines that I think are supposed to be joke lines in the hands of like,

like who's a handsome star who's not a funny guy, who would have those kinds of lines. Like, I don't know. Well, I don't know what point you're making so it's hard to say. I don't know, like Harrison Ford or something like that. The kind of lines where it's like, oh, this is like the handsome guy is making

like an along the way remark. That's not supposed to be like a huge funny joke, which just shows he has a sense of humor. You've got Eugene Levy, who's a genuinely incredibly funny person. So, but yeah, it's strange. So anyway, but their crush is so up, the ladies have to give up their phones.

Nora and Mary don't like that. Nora, she wants to do work, and Mary's gotta keep in touch with her husband who's connected to her as if he was her child. And there's a moment where Betsy Sidaro's like, listing all the things they might have, and she's like, iPads? And I'm like, you know these women have iPads?

Yes. And so there's also, there's a moment where they see that their cabin is full of bugs. I'm like, ew! And I'm like, okay, we'll get jokes about rustic stuff. No, no, no, this is still in that kind of what's your name? The one who did something's got to give Nora from no no no Nancy Myers

I'm like well, I thought this would be more Nancy Meyers eat Then we see how Kathy Bates has had their cabin glammed up and there's a lot of yeah Top chef kitchen style panning shots of how nice the cabin is now. And she also gives them the aforementioned egg vibrators which do not play into the plot. It's not a big thing, but I wanna highlight a moment that I found baffling just in the sense of like-

It's not a thing from the movie Big? Yeah, it's not a thing from the movie Big. It's from this movie. It's that Johnny fucking keyboard, right? The dance on it. No, I said it's not a thing from the movie Big. No, but that is a big thing from the movie Big. It's pretty big, right?

It's big in two ways. That's true. And that's what I'm saying is not. Tonight we're serving big two ways. It's a giant keyboard from the movie Big. I'm supposed to do this, I don't understand. It's also just the movie Big. Supposed to dance on it with Robert Loja.

Let's get him out. Oh no. No, let's do it. Oh no. No, we have it bring his corpse out. We can do this. No. No, it's not a major point, but I want to bring it up.

So it's not from the movie Major Pain. God damn it. To me, this is just emblematic of how like shaggy this movie is put together, because like we get the moment where they see the pretty committee, they're like, ugh, you know, gross, they're still like they were, whatever.

And then- I'll say. And then Jenny takes out her phone and plays like a TikTok she made about how if you don't get the love you deserve, you should take his ass to the dumpster. And the women have this reaction as if this was pertinent to anything that happened before, like that this flowed naturally

from the scene before when it has no reference to anything. I mean, later on, you know, like there's stuff about Alfie Woodard's character's husband, Mike, and how shitty he is and how he needs to be taken to the dumpster, but that is not the scene that preceded this. And I'm like, am I going mad? Like, why is this scene here?

What's happening? And I think that's just kind of the way the movie is in a lot of ways. It's not a tightly structured movie. Also we find Beverly D'Angelo's character now is enamored of Ginny because Ginny is famous. So the idea, so you think they're setting it up for like, oh, the popular kids are now mean adults

and there's gonna be tension there, but there isn't. Like it's just not, this is a, let's call this movie easy going. We've been saying shaggy. This is a, if this was from the 70s, people might be like, oh, it's that laid back shaggy 70s charm. Classic Altman-esque.

Exactly, but it's, it doesn't, I mean, it's not good. So it doesn't achieve that, but it's, it is a very- The sound is so crazy. I wouldn't even call this movie Slept Together so much as kind of like, uh, scattered, like they scattered scenes on the ground and it's up to you to pick them up and kind of put them in some kind of tent shorter. Pick it up, look at it, or just put it back down.

Who cares? Put it back down. Yeah. Uh, so the ladies go have drinks. They accidentally knock over some, an hors d'oeuvres tray leading to a food table falling over. And it begins this running gag of Josh Peck's character who works at the camp. The ideas they keep talking about how he keeps screwing up and get, and having to get jobs the table falling over and it begins this running gag of Josh Peck's character who works at the camp. The idea is they keep talking about how he keeps screwing up

and having to get jobs that are kind of lower on the totem pole, but he's not really screwing up so much as the ladies are messing things up for him. Like he's not really doing anything wrong, but the movie always assumes that this character is kind of like a loser, but it just doesn't gel. It doesn't make sense. Well, also I have to say in my own notes, right,

you know, like As we said, we had some confusion over who's doing the summary, so I was also taking notes, and I didn't register him as an important character until sort of halfway through the movie when I'm like, oh, I should start noting down what this guy's doing, because by the end, he becomes important. Go all the way back. He is given no, like,

the movie does not do the job that most movies do that underlines, okay, these are the things you need to pay attention to as you watch the film. Because I think the truth is that until maybe the last 10 minutes, there's nothing you need to pay attention to. Exactly, that's true. It's a real wallpaper of a movie.

Anyway, they meet up with Tommy and Stevie Stevie and there's a lot of awkward flirting all around, awkward innuendo. But Nora is mostly annoyed at how hard it is to do work at the camp. She yells at Vic, she gets embarrassed in front of Stevie. That night Ginny's annoyed that Nora's working and she's not present. She doesn't know how to not work. But luckily she can't do work on her phone while she's river rafting. They go river rafting, Nora falls out of the raft, they have to pull her in. Hello, Harry, you're in soon, right? I was very excited also because I was like,

I'm like, how are they going to shoot this? Because that's got to be a stunt actor. Like, and you know, it doesn't really look like Diane Keaton until they haul her back in. Yes, I think it's fair to not push Diane Keaton into River Rapids. I was going to say, I can't believe this movie would throw Diane Keaton into the River Rapids. There's also a later scene where Alfred Woodard is, you know, riding a horse around and falls off a horse. You know, spot the stunt double. It's a fun game you can play with this. But again, I'm happy to not have Alfred Woodard thrown off a horse for real.

I'm not saying she should do it and certainly not her summer camp. It's not for summer camp. Yeah Of all the movies to break a collarbone for summer camp is not the one And it just kind of goes on on like that for a while and you keep getting the same notes of Mary's talking her husband on the phone. He doesn't really pay attention Ginny's kind of bossy Nora's trying to work He doesn't really pay attention. Ginny's kind of bossy. Nora's trying to work. Stevie shows up and helps her sneak into the cell phone room

and they're about to kiss when Vic catches them. Oh no, Stevie kind of talks them out of trouble, but not exactly. And when Nora gets back, her friends are disappointed that she didn't kiss Stevie. They're like, spill the tea, spill the tea. She's like, oh, there isn't really any. And so the girls then-

I'm gonna keep the tea in my cup, thank you very much. Yep, and the girls have a little talk about marriage and loneliness. Is it right to get married? Is it not right to get married? Is loneliness worth the independence that you get? And this could have been, there's a couple scenes where it's like, this isn't funny,

but I kind of would love to see these actresses playing characters of their age, talking realistically about the feelings of being at that age and the choices you've made, and now you're living with the results of those choices, which is what this movie is about, but like, it's also... It's like past lives like that. Yeah, yeah, kind of, yeah, but it's also supposed to be kind of like a bubbly nothing, and so you're not going to get that deep into those themes or into those moments.

The next day, it's Archery. Nora almost hits people with her arrows. At one point, she almost fires one backwards behind her, which is hard to do. There is a scene early on when they were kids where they meet Dennis Haysbert and Eugene Levy's child characters. Younger characters, yeah.

Because they shoot one of them with an arrow. Yeah, they shoot Dennis Haysbert with an arrow. And it sticks in his stomach. And he still has a scar. The story is told that then that Mary, as a kid, like glues the wound shut, which is, I have to say, having been to summer camp, if you got hit with an arrow, you would be taken away from the camp

and brought to the hospital. Like, that's not the kind of, I hope that Charlene pointed out to you, Stuart, that like at a real camp, the kids were not allowed to do the first aid for a projectile puncture wound. She said that all tracked, that all made sense, based on her experience, yeah. And so they-

There's some very sexual pottery making here too. So Mary goes off with Dennis Haysbert and they do some phallic pottery that then turns into vaginal pottery. Yeah, and there's some fingering of the pottery that happens as well. That's true, and Nora and Stevie do some flirt archery and they hit the bullseye together. Mmm. Mmm.

And Dan, I think in your letterbox reviews, you said something about sexual tension you couldn't cut with a chainsaw. You said something about it being not since... Not since... Oh, now I'm forgetting the name. What's that real sweaty movie with Kathleen Turner? Body Heat? Not since Body Heat, thank you. There's been so much palpable sex on name. What's that real sweaty movie with with Kathleen? Body heat? Not since body heat. Thank you. There's been so much palpable sex on screen. You said that right? Yeah, I mean that sounds like me. That sounds like the sort of thing I'd say. And then you just said awuga awuga and then it was four siren emojis.

Yeah. I think you put it on your list that you just titled heat alert. Yeah, he was like you guys looking for a third? That's right. I got real horned up watching this. that you just titled heat alert. Uh-huh. Yeah. He was like, you guys looking for a third? Yeah. That's right. I got real horned up. What is this? And so Ginny just keeps telling Mary to leave her husband, not in clever ways, just saying, you should leave your husband. He sucks. They give Nora, I guess they're like trying to give her like a sexier outfit, but it still kind of looks like a Diane Keaton outfit.

And they get, which is again, it's a certain kind of sexy. Can't improve on, can't put a hat on a hat. There's no, you can't get more than 100%. And then she gets her to call herself a bad bitch. This is one of the big, I assume this was, if there had been a trailer for this movie, I don't know what it was, this would be the trailer moment. And they also give Mary a makeover.

So everyone's, it's a lot of, you know, sprucing each other up. I'm just imagining if like after the bad bitch moment, it really like turned into like, it took a turn and like turned into like sort of a neo-noir where she had to become like a bad bitch. She gets caught up in a murder scheme or it becomes like a faster pussycat kill kill.

And now she's like kidnapping Eugene Levy and ripping his clothes off and like scratching his chest and writing like, writing like cock on his forehead with a lipstick and things like that. Yeah, one like cock on his forehead with a lipstick and things like that. Yeah, one of her arms turns into like a gun, like she's a cyborg ninja. Yeah, yeah, and she has sex with a car,

and she goes to a metal baby. Yeah, sure. Yeah, good stuff. I would say this movie checks a lot of the boxes. I was definitely expecting there to be a scene where they all accidentally do drugs, right? There wasn't one of those. Yeah, they missed out on that.

Or on purpose. You know what? For this movie, there should have been a scene. Like an Ayahuasca trip or something? Ayahuasca trip or even like they accidentally eat edibles or something like that. A lot of Kathy Bates, Jenny Moon's character, like the jokes for her is mainly her just like

saying celebrity names, right? There's a lot of like, oh, I was having a threesome with like Dr. Phil and Oprah or something. Yeah, it's a lot of like celebrity name drops or like just kind of like, like vulgar talk. Like she's a little more earthy than the others, you know. She's more rebelazian, you know. Even on like a more, on a more basic level, like's a whole genre of camp movies that I feel like this movie does not. Yeah, like Pink flamingos.

Yeah, yeah, that's right. Friday the 13th. The Apple, yeah, camp movies, yeah. No, I just don't think that this is like. You were going down a different comedy path than we were going down. It still works. Still works, that's true.

I mean, it's a little more literal. That is, Friday the 13th is a camp movie, but yeah. But I feel like they could have gotten a lot of juice out of just like, just taking the tropes of other like summer camp comedies and really doing them rather like older actors. There is a food fight scene. Yeah, that's true.

It's true, that's the one time they do it. And there's no one's ever done like taken all the cliches about summer camp movies and made like a parody comedy about that. They've never done it. They certainly didn't do it as a movie or a six episode television series. It never happened.

But you're right, Dan, they could have just, to do like the summer camp scenes in the parent trap, that kind of thing, but with older people, as opposed to kids. Now if they were to do that, they should do a little bit of off the wall casting, maybe with like a SVU actor in a comedic role. Oh, you're still on that side of the map?

The same one, yeah. It's like, where are we? I mean, I think, did he, was he on SVU at the time? I guess he was, right? He's got to have been. He's always been on it, right? Yeah, so yeah, it's like The Shining. Yeah, there's a picture of SVU from 1925.

Chris Maloney in there. He has a picture of his fucking cheeked up tush. He does have a cheeked up tush. Everybody does right? Like what are your tushes made out of? Yeah, but like he's packing some serious cake back there, man. This is we're going into. You haven't paid attention. No, I haven't't I haven't really paid that much attention to it how cake Melonians yeah, well you're missing out guys. I'm gonna go. I'm gonna go to too much information Audrey's Audrey's taking some photos of me in my underwear the other day just cuz she's like We are Underwear the other day just cuz she's like damn. No, we are Not not in a sexual way well sort of but not not really but she's like look at what yoga's done to your butt

Yeah, I gotta say I've got cheeked up cakes Yeah, Dan's dragging a wagon. Yeah. It's finally happened. I never thought it could happen. You were finally built like a Pixar mom. Nope. Yeah. Stupid Thicc McCoy, that's what we call him.

Yeah, he's like the American Godzilla back there. Yeah. Yeah, Dan gets up on the street asking where he got his BBL. So that night, Ginny is hosting a sort of public therapy session where like people take turns getting therapy from her in front of everybody. She reduces Beverly D'Angelo to admitting that she is an approval seeking phony, which is the kind of thing that would mean more if we had seen her actually being like not nice or in any way. Like it feels like finally she's getting her comeuppance,

but for what? There was no, there's no come to uppance from, you know. And I mean like the movie's, the movie's doing this on purpose because Jenny is going to get a kind of a comeuppance. But it did seem weird to me because I'm like, oh, well Beverly D'Angelo is being like really vulnerable and Jenny's reaction is like, okay, now go sit down.

It seemed really mean. I think she is, I mean, she's not good at this. I mean, here's the thing, here's the secret everybody about celebrity kind of therapy things. They're often not very good. Like they're, I think it, the main thing about therapy, for me at least, is that you can't do it en masse. Like you've got to, it's gotta be a personalized thing

about who you are. And so the idea that she's just like speed rounding therapy, like maybe it's on purpose. The idea that like she's not, she's bad at this. Cause at the end, well, she'll admit she needs to get her shit together, you know? But anyway, she's prepared. So Ginny starts practicing her keynote speech

for the other two. And it's just full of her regular kind of like, deal with it, you know, stand up for yourself, idiot kind of stuff. Yeah, basic, you know, stand up for yourself, idiot, kind of stuff. Too aggressive. Yeah, basic like social media therapy influencer type. Yes, and they're like, they start to give her critique of it and she gets defensive.

The next morning, uh-oh, Mike, Mary's husband shows up and he is mean to her, he didn't give her permission to stay all this long this summer. I do kind of like the idea that her husband showed up and he's like, where are the peanuts at? Yeah. The idea that her husband showed up and he's like, where are the peanuts at? Same place I told you last time. He's like a dominating baby is the thing. It's his need and his, his district need.

Have you met many old men? There are a lot of dominating babies. That's true, that's true. So, and she's like, no, I'm not gonna go home with you. And the other ladies are watching from afar and seeing all this and And she says no, I'm staying here and his her husband leaves Mary is relieved and the other is really proud of her and she's like they like what do you want to do? She goes I want to go horseback ride a fucking horse

Which she knew that which we know because we saw it earlier on she want liked as a kid Unfortunately, there's a minor mishap. She gets thrown in the mud by the horse. Don't worry, she's okay. Yeah, she's okay. I was like, every bone would be shattered. And also, this is where I get really mad at the Josh Peck character too, who's like, he's like doofy in the rest of the movie, but here he's like, he's like, oh, oh, like, oh, she shouldn't be riding that horse.

He stands right in front of the fucking horse, so it throws her. I'm like, she was doing fine, man. What is this? What is this bullshit? Yeah, he is doing his job badly there. The girls have dinner with the guys, Ginny won't stop bragging about how important she is,

and a Tommy, Dennis Haysbert, chokes, and Mary saves him at the Heimlich, which leads to a food fight. It's dumb, this seems just dumb. And it literally has someone yelling, food fight, which like, I've been in food fights at Suffer Camp. No one ever yells it. People just start throwing it.

Once you get food hitting you, you know you're in a food fight. Like you don't have to have it announced, you know. For someone who's arguing. No one ever goes, war, when a war breaks out. Like you know you're in one when you're getting shot at. Yeah. I mean, technically Congress is supposed to go war before it happens. The power of the executive office has been expanded so much since the War Powers Act

that that piece of legislation, though never overturned, has effectively been overturned in practical terms. Anyone can shat war these days. Wow, I can't believe we're now being classified as an educational podcast, right? And we're being deported. I have to just make sure that this never gets found out by the TSA because they won't let me back in when I talk about it. Anywho, too real, let's go back to summer camp.

Let's go back to something that is not real at all. So there's a big food fight, they leave, Nora and Stevie escape to the kitchen, which even though it's the dinnertime session of camp, the kitchen is deserted and totally clean. So I guess the staff made the food, cleaned up and left. They're incredible. Yeah, they're just great. And they do end up kissing. She ends up kissing him,

because she thinks he's going in for a kiss. At the cabin, Mary gets mad at Ginny for being so bossy and judgmental, and they argue, they all get into a fight. That's right, it's the end of Act Two. Time for the heroes to get into a fight and be mad at each other. And they learn that Ginny was hiding a cell phone,

and she reveals- This is like when Spider-Man gives up his powers, right? When Spider-Man would be like, I don't want my powers anymore, and he walks around, powerless, right? And he just walks around. This is what Spider-Man gives up his powers, right? When Spider-Man would be like, I don't want my powers anymore, and he walks around. Kind of. And he just walks around. That's what he fucking does in the movie! You're too bossy! My memory of Uncle Ben telling me to be responsible.

You're trying to boss me all the time. The way you said it, it said as if it goes, I don't want my powers anymore. So he just walks around in his costume, just solving crimes without using any of his powers. The powers were a crutch. Did you see when the Knicks won their game the other day? You can guarantee I did not see that. But there was a guy dressed up in a Spider-Man suit

with Knicks memorabilia dancing in a circle of hundreds of people. And I'm like, this is the most New York thing I've ever seen. Unless he was holding a pizza in his hand. Yeah. The only sports thing I've ever seen. Unless he was holding a pizza in his hand. Yeah. But the only sports thing I'm aware of recently was that they've retired the scoreboard on the, for when, I think it's when the Pirates and the Phillies play. So that no long, if there's no score, it no longer looks like it says poop on screen.

And that was a sad moment for baseball when they retired that. Yeah, that's too bad. So anyway, that's the kind of sports story that gets onto my radar. Yeah. Is when a graphic that says, proof is retired. So they all get mad at each other.

And Ginny admits that this whole summer camp reunion, she funded and planned the whole thing, just to have an excuse to get her friends together because she didn't expect that they would want to spend time with her. Nora storms out. This is when she has her best line of the movie, fuck you pillow, and she just drops a pillow as she's walking out. She sneaks into Ginny's RV and spends the night responding to work messages.

Oh no, she's hit rock bottom, which for her is working too hard. The next morning, Stevie finds her there and he gives her a talk about being a workaholic and she runs after him like, no, no, wait, I can change. Mary on a hike runs into Tommy, pours out her troubles to him and like the perfect man that he is in a movie for ladies, he just says, I just like to listen to you, doesn't try to give her advice or solve her problems,

doesn't try to tell about his problems, he is just there to listen, a perfect partner because he is doing for her what she does for her husband, which is just be at her beck and call emotionally. Her love language seems to be what quality time? Is that probably? Yeah, attention. And hiking and pottery.

And hiking and pottery, yeah. Norin Stevie, they talk about setting limits at work and how he had a heart attack at one point and spending more time with his kids. And I gotta tell you, as someone whose current work status is killing, is being dead, you know, being murdered by work. This really spoke to me, you know, this really spoke to me. For anyone who's listening, don't worry, I'm not dead yet.

Well, yeah, please don't get murdered by work. I'm trying, I'm trying my best. It's a real game of cat and mouse between me and work right now over who's going to get who You see that ever seen that movie is it assassins the one where it's antennae Banderas and so this is loner He's trying to kill each other. That's like that between me and work right now. So Jenny's trying to write her speech and She she's having trouble and she runs into the camp employee Josh Peck who keeps getting trouble. And he's the one who's basically like, you're too controlling, she's really rude to him,

but then she shows him up, he shows her up, because he knows more about how dangerous Dear Scat is to just leave around than she does. She doesn't know everything, you know. Well, also, he just, I mean, like he just very calmly says something like, that hurt my feelings. Or like, that was me and you hurt my feelings, and it seems to get through to her in a

way that everything else hasn't. Yeah, and I'm impressed by the that kind of subtle viral marketing for Hallie Hagelin's newsletter that hurts my feelings Oh, that hurt my feelings look at look it up on sub stack as seen as mentioned kind of in summer camp But you're right someone's saying to her. Hey that was to you what you cross the line instead I guess she maybe she's just used to being rewarded for this kind of brash behavior. No one has very just so boldly said to her, directly said like, that was mean. And despite so much of her advice

basically just amounting to establishing firm boundaries with other people, I don't think she's used to people establishing boundaries with her. Yes, very good. This is a well-written movie. Yeah, exactly. So these are rich characters. I mean, they are rich characters.

They have no financial problems whatsoever. I mean, that's part of the genre though, right? I feel like a big part of the genre is that like, of like, you know, older ladies doing stuff that they don't have financial troubles with. Yeah, more time to have a book club and drink wine. Also the genre of movies, which from the most part now are rarely about people with any financial issues But you're right. There is a there's a fantasy element of like I don't have to worry

Yeah, like I saw I saw black bag and I'm like man. These guys are fucking loaded. They have so many lights on their table These spies have the nicest house with so many fucking lamps on their like just sitting on the table It's crazy But for real for true because you used to see spy movies where the spies were glamorous at work But not necessarily like wealthy on their own, you know, like a spy was supposed to make you More like a slow horses thing like the Harry that Michael Caine what Harry Palmer movies for those the ones like where they're, what's his character, his spy character

from like billion dollar brain and things like that. Yeah, or they would have to like, you know, they'd have to keep like a knife in their shoe. Like that would have to do double duty. They couldn't have a separate, they couldn't afford a separate knife and a separate shoe. Yeah. That's very good point. Yeah, if you had a phone in your shoe,

it was because you couldn't have both. Exactly, yeah. Yeah, James Bond's car is full of gadgets, but they had to use a pre-existing car it's not like sure even though it's a luxury car it's not like they made him a special car you know whereas now he'd get a special car anyway yeah and when he asked for gadgets they're like they're in the car like yeah man said you want a car they're all in there they come preloaded look you said you wanted a thing that sprays

poison gas we had to put it in a pen because like then we could call it part of the office supply budget. That's the only way we could get it through. So, Nora and Mary discuss Ginny's issues, and they realize they're not great friends either. They don't remember their friend's birthday or anything like that. That night, Ginny gives her speech. It looks like Mary and Nora didn't show up.

Once again, one of Stuart's favorite things, empty seats at a performance. He loves it, loves it. Ginny gets upset on stage. She speaks honestly from the heart and Mary and Nora walk in and she comes to an epiphany about friendship and needing to not be in control. She says, better, it's better to be together than to have your shit together. And this is one, this is one thing I want to say about this movie.

This is not a good movie. It's a comedy that's not funny. It's a, it does not get through to real emotion in the characters. It is skating by constantly on the charisma of these leads. But I will say this, I recently read the book, A Liar of Orpheus by Robertson Davies. And in it, he makes the point that even bad, trite, crappy art can still embody a truth, you know?

And sometimes those truths come through even truer because you don't have the glittering brilliant artifice of a great work of art to distract you. And there are two moments in this movie, the one where Eugene Levy is saying to Diane Keaton, you can't make your whole life about work. Like I did that and it was wrong and it almost killed me. And this moment where she says,

it's better to be together than to have your shit, like it's better to connect with another person than to seem perfect. And I was like, movie, you're bad, but you're saying real things to me that are good for me to hear at this point in my life at the moment, you know? And so those things being true messages

does not in any way make this a good movie. But it was one of those things where I'm like, movie, okay. At least the message is not like, girls gotta do it for themselves, you know, something that is not a real thing. And normally when that happens, I'm like watching, I'm like, girls do gotta do it for themselves. I haven't really thought about it that way, thank you.

You're right. It is so funny when you're watching like a piece of shit that speaks to you all of a sudden and you're like, should this matter so much? Am I an idiot for connecting? Well, it's like there's a... There's some... One of the reasons I left The Daily Show when I did was...

Also, I didn't want to work there anymore. And I was burnt out. Too much Dan McCoy. And the allegations. Too much Dan McCoy. And what? And the allegations. Yeah, that too. I had to leave. I'll be too funny.

Oh, wow. Good save. Wow, Dan saved your ass right there. Thank you, Dan, I appreciate it. After all things I've said about you, was that I went to see two movies around that time. It Follows, where I was like, I love this movie. There's more things to do in life, and I feel like there's a deep, meanest movie,

and Kong Skull Island, which is a very fun movie, but there's a point in it where the guy goes, you go looking for a war, you're gonna find one. And I was like, I bet that hit more people harder than everything I've done at The Daily Show about war and like getting into it. The idea that like in this monster movie, yeah,

if you're looking for a monster to fight, you're gonna find a monster to fight, even if there wasn't one to begin with. You're gonna make that war-proof. And I was like, oh man, you can say true things in silly movies or like, you know, goofy movies. You know, the goofy movie obviously has no, not a lot of things in it.

Yeah, you can say there's amazing shit in the goofy movie. Yeah, Powerline's song has a lot to say to us. God, I gotta watch that fucking movie. Well, at the same, we're gonna have to do the goofy movie obviously has no... Yeah, you can say there's amazing shit in the goofy movie. Yeah, Powerline's song has a lot to say to us. God, I gotta watch that fucking movie. Well, at the same... We're gonna have to do the goofy movie at some point. Like, it's maybe the most demanded movie for us to do. So, that night, the ladies talk about how Ginny's life has been empty because she's been so focused on seeming perfect, you know, or whatever. They're a real family and they make up.

The next day, they use a canopy, zipl make up, the next day they use a canopy zipline ropes course. The movie is effectively over, but I guess there's this ropes course at the camp they were shooting at, so they've got to use it. And Ginny hires Josh Peck, he's now her social media marketer or something like that. For some reason, he's never shown any aptitude for it. Well, she has basically sabotaged his camp career,

so we might as well help her with this. Yeah, Nora has an epiphany, and she lets them help her in the ropes course, and she's gonna quit her job. Ginny gives another epiphany speech, this one I don't like. The movie has sold, it's sailing past the close, you know? And so Nora quit her job, Mary decides to leave her husband,

and then they zip line to- Well, not just that, Mary also, and look, I don't wanna close anyone down before their time. Many wonderful things can happen. Don't bring her down. In old age. Oh, don't bring her down, Dan. But Alfie Woodard is in her 70s

and the character at the end of this movie is like, I'm gonna go back and become a doctor. I'm like, no, don't. Four years of medical school now Can you met someone at that age having to do a residency where you're working like 20 hour days like don't do it Yeah, don't do it. But Dan, it's just a fantasy movie. It doesn't mean that's why they ride away on a Pegasus at the end Like what the end of Madea or whatever Madea's family reunion?

Yeah, yeah. Where Madea flies away with two, what, dead children? What happens in there with that thing? And Jason's like, what did I do? Oh man, oh boy. I feel like a real idiot. I feel like a real heel. How do I apologize for this one? Oh man, what a great character. Man, Greek mythology and a lot of great ass characters. But the fact that Jason is a hero, he ruins his family life, he puts on a hockey mask

and he just starts stabbing summer campers. Oh man. Oh, what a hero. That's, there's the, well, I mean, that's one of the great things about all the Greek myths is it's like, look, here's the secret. Everybody's a piece of shit, right? Like, The gods?

Shit. The gods? Piece of shit. The hero's piece is a shit. The Minotaur, probably the best guy in the whole thing. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I guess like, who's other, I guess there's no good guys in Greek myths, which is great.

Yeah, that's probably what spawned the God of War video game franchise. Somebody's like, all these people are pieces of shit. Somebody should invent, somebody just murder them all. Yeah. So anyways, they zip line away, summer of 69 plays, and then we get outtakes and bloops. We get bloopers, and I want to say one thing that I want to, you did not, the one thing I want to say about this.

You heard the siren song of bloops and you kept it on. Is there's a scene where Nicole Richie and Betsy Sedaro are clearly improvising, and Nicole Richie comes the closest that the movie does to making me laugh with one of her lines and made me think about how she's been really funny in some sitcoms later in her career and back in the old days

when she was hanging out with Paris Hilton, people were making such fun of her and it taught a real lesson about how you shouldn't write someone off in a way that I'm like, you're talking about art hitting you in weird ways. I'm like, you're talking about like art hitting you in weird ways. I'm like, well, that made me think more than anything else in this movie is just like thinking about the real career

of this actor. I feel like a very real thing that people I think are just coming around to, I think at least culture is coming around to is that Paris Hilton and Nicole Richie knew what they were doing. Like this is a bit- Yes, I think so. Like this is a bit.

Yes, I think so. That it's a bit. And at the time all these people are like, oh, these characters are like, these people are dumb. And I'm like, they're doing a bit, guys. I mean, it will, I will say in defense of the people who did not get that they were doing a bit, I think there was, it was a time when there was the idea of, oh, you're famous for being rich and pretty.

And now you get a TV show where you get to just kind of like, it seems like make fun of ordinary people. I think not getting the level of irony that they are the villains of that show, that they're supposed to playing dumb and not living in the world we live in now where being rich is the single most important thing and the only thing that matters in the entire world.

That we live in such a fallen universe at the moment where all that matters is money and that a computer can make a picture of Jesus with five boobs, just with a verbal prompt. You know, like, I think at an earlier, more innocent time. Jesus with five boobs is so much better than the vast majority of AI. I guess that's true.

So, it's because I can't help it. I'm an imaginative human being. I can come up with new ideas. Yeah. But I think that we lived in a simpler, less, at a time when now it's not like irony is dead so much as reality has become so ironic that nothing matters.

And so when that TV show is on, I get people not getting that bit. That being said, Dan, I know what you're saying, which is you shouldn't just discount somebody because you think you know who they are rather than really paying attention to who they are. So we all learned something from Summer Camp. So that's the movie, yeah. Yeah, well learned something from Summer Camp. Yeah, that's a good movie.

That's the movie, yeah. Yeah, well that takes us into final judgements, whether this is a good bad movie, a bad bad movie, or a movie we kinda like. I'm gonna say, like I said, this is a type of movie that surprisingly we often enjoy at the Flappas, or maybe not surprisingly, but it's not geared towards three middle-aged men per se.

You mean a movie filled with beautiful older women that we wouldn't like it? That's crazy, Dan. You're making it creepy again. But as much as I like the performers, I do think this is kind of like, it's definitely the weakest one of these that we've watched. I don't know if it's the weakest full stop

or that will ever exist, but I was, I will, I will say bad, bad, even though there are elements about it that were enjoyable. Somebody make a worse one. Stuart, what do you have to say? Someone's going to make a worse one. Yeah, this is a bad, bad movie. It just, it has, it's, it's very scattered.

It, it, it just doesn't put any, it feels very effortless in a bad way. Yeah, not effortless in a Michael Jordan way. Yeah. Yeah, it seems to rely on the charisma and talent of the cast, and I don't think it gives them enough to work with, it's not very good. I will, I'm gonna surprise you guys.

I think this is objectively a bad movie. It's barely a movie. It's, there's a joke I've always loved from Mystery Science Theater for the movie, The Screaming Skull, where they say, this is about two minutes of a movie and 90 minutes of Styrofoam packing peanuts. And that's what this movie feels like also.

But I will say, this is one, maybe because it's not trying at all and it is so entirely resting just on the my residual enjoyment of this cast there were I did find I did find it going down very easy and It had those two moments where I was like, alright, this movie is saying true things to me almost by accident You know and so in the end it was movie I kind of liked but it is bad It's not worth watching and it's very like, but I think it was almost like, if this was trying to be funny and failing, I would have hated it.

But since it is not trying to be funny, I can't discount it for failing at something it's not even attempting. You know, so. It's easy, breezy, beautiful. Well, there's a reason why I put it on and don't remember that much of it, because I'm like, yeah, it's just,

yeah, the drugs. It feels a little bit like, but it feels a little bit like when you're watching commercials in a row, during a commercial break on a TV, when you're watching TV, and the commercials are neither annoying enough to be memorable nor are they funny or cool enough to be memorable, and you're just sitting there

letting faces that you recognize play over your retinas and you're just kind of like, all right, this happened. If there's anything that pushes me towards not liking it, it's the soundtrack. Like the needle drops are just dumb. Like I'm not a fan of those needle drops, but overall. Don't get me wrong, you play a ZZ Top song, I'm gonna like that.

He's gonna get up and start boogying around the room. Yeah, do a little Texas two-step around my living room. Yeah. But I will say that objectively, this is a bad bit. get up and start boogying around the room. Yeah, do a little Texas two-step around my living room. Yeah. But I will say that objectively this is a bad, bad movie. Yeah. Hi, is this Sam? Yes, it is.

I'm Brenda, host of Secret Histories of Nerd Mysteries on Maximum Fun, and I'm calling because you've been named Maximum Fun's Member of the Month for May. Wow, I'm really excited to hear that. I love being a member. I like all the bo-co, and I just, I enjoy all the shows that I listen to. I just, I love Maximum Fun. As our Member of the Month,

you'll be getting a $25 gift card to the Maximum Fun store, a special Member of the Month bumper sticker, a special priority parking spot at Maximum Fun HQ, a special member of the month bumper sticker, a special priority parking spot at Maximum Fun HQ in Los Angeles, California, just for you. I can't wait to see what the bumper sticker looks like. Oh yeah, I am obsessed with bumper stickers. What's your message to people thinking about joining Maximum Fun?

I mean, if you really like the shows, I think it's like a really good way to help support them. I'm really happy I'm able to. Thank you so much for listening. Thank you for making your show. Become a Max Fund member now at maximumfund.org slash join. It's hard to explain what Jordan Jesse Goh is about, so I had my kids take a stab at it.

Probably weird stuff. You talk about... Jobs that are annoying. Uh-huh. Hmm, business. I think you probably learned your lesson after talking about business a couple of times. Growing up jokes that I don't understand and there's no point in making. And...

All the podcasts are boring. Subscribe to Jordan Jesse Go, a comedy show for grownups. Hey, this podcast is sponsored, of course, by the support of Max Fun listeners. Thank you to all who are members, but it is also specifically this episode sponsored in part by Squarespace. If you offer services on the internet, well, you need a website. Squarespace gives you everything you need to promote your services and get paid. How?

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with no experience required. So, head to squarespace.com slash flop for a free trial and when you are ready to launch, use offer code FLOP to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain. Elliot, you probably have things you wanna plug. You do things on the side. I do too many things on the side.

I've got stuff to plug. I'm just the same old regular stuff. Regular listeners know that I have a couple of ongoing projects. One is my other podcast. Sorry guys, I'm just the same old regular stuff regular listeners know that I have a couple of ongoing projects One is my other podcast. Sorry guys. I'm cheating on you with Sean Hayes that podcast. It's okay. I like to watch from the window My podcast clueless on the smart list network, which is a you know 12 to 15 minute long usually puzzle podcast Please try to check that out my series series from DC Comics, Harley Quinn,

continues to come out monthly, and I'm having a lot of fun writing it, and the art looks amazing. And finally, there's my new children's picture book, Sadie Mouse Wrecks the House. It's out in store shelves now, and we just had a signing yesterday, as we're recording this,

at Once Upon a Time Books in Montrose, California, and it went really great, and a bunch of floppers showed up with their kids and it was really wonderful. So thank you so much to the listeners who showed up. Thanks for picking up Sadie Mouse Rex the House. I think your kids will enjoy it. You didn't have a Salman Rushdie situation? I did not have a Salman Rushdie situation. No, I didn't. Yeah, everything was fine. No one tried to assassinate me. So that was a hilarious joke, Stuart. Dan, can we talk to Stu about this?

Like this is going too far. But anyway, thanks floppers for coming out at Sadie Mouse Wrecks the House on Bookstore Shelves. Go to your local independent bookstore and say, get me a book where a mouse named Sadie wrecks the house. Nice. Stuart, what about you? What do you got to plug?

Well, I don't know. We reopened our bar, Commonwealth in Park Slope. You should go check it out. You should go to my Twitch channel, Stuart Wellington, and watch me paint models once a week. I usually do in the afternoons on Fridays. Yeah, that's about it. I got nothing else going on. Hey, as long as we're plugging things, you know,

I don't actually mention it that much, but I've got a personal newsletter. It's called Dan McCoy's Special Interests. You can, I don't know, you can just Google that. It'll come up, Dan McCoy's Special Interests. It's probably also the URL, I can't remember. When am I supposed to know everything? Yeah, and it's certainly, you have no way of looking it up now.

So what do we do next on the podcast? The next thing is let's answer some listener letters, letters from listeners. I'm pulling you up right now and here we go. Hi, floppers. Hey. This is from Joanne, the last name with an L. Hi, floppers.

Fabrics? Mm-hmm. Well, that's Joanne, but yes, sure. Thanks, thanks for correcting me. I don't want those Joanne fabrics people who are like already sad about the, you know, all of it going on business. Yeah, I can't win today.

To come for us, you know. Yeah, Stuart, you're just hitting so many hot button topics and Ron nerves. Yeah, I'm so sorry guys. Joanne says, I was ecstatic when Halle recommended Dangerous Beauty on the Better Man episode as it finally gave me a reason to write in after listening for 15 plus years. Wow, thank you for listening all that time and not writing in.

We appreciate your restraint. Just kidding. Hey, just kidding. I attended a fancy all girls high school that required everyone to take one- Stuart, you were just telling me about a movie about something like that. Yeah. I have required everyone to take one semester of Italian Renaissance art. At the end of the semester, our teacher decided to screen Dangerous Beauty. The main character's mother, played by Jacqueline Bissette,

is a former courtesan who decides that her daughter must also become a courtesan. There's a sequence where the mother trains the daughter in the ways of the courtesan. It is all part of the story. And also become a courtesan. There's a sequence where the mother trains the daughter in the ways of the courtesan. It is all pretty tame until she brings in a handsome stable boy and forces her daughter to watch her give him a hand job.

Imagine about- We've all been there. Which part of that scenario? On which side. Imagine about 20, 15 year old girls screaming in absolute horror when they realize that this poor girl has to learn how to give a hand job from her mom. I've seen and forgotten a lot of movies over the years, but that scene will live in my mind until the day I die.

Anyway, do you have any particularly memorable classroom based movie watching incidents to share, whether from elementary school, high school, or college? Best wishes, Joanna." The only two things I can remember, not as striking as that, I remember of course we watched Chandler's List in school and people had to get permission slips for watching an R-rated movie. To watch something with Jews in it, yeah. Yeah.

Well, it just struck me because I understand why the school has to do it, but on the other hand, it was like, oh, the people who grow up in the most restrictive households who arguably would benefit the most from seeing this movie are not gonna see it under that circumstance. But I also remember in middle school, I think it was like the last week of school

when the teachers have given up and nothing we're gonna watch is of educational value. Yeah, we once watched Empire Records in a biology class in high school at the end of the year. We watched Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade and I was the only one who laughed at the like, is the, you know, that's the Ark of the Covenant. Are you sure? Pretty sure.

And like the teacher like coming by like, eh, I'm Dan. This guy's getting a passing grade. You and me, we're the real ones. We like Indy. I had kind of the opposite type experience in a classroom once, which is my AP government politics teacher was out sick one day in high school, and so he had, he was supposed to watch Roger and Me, the first Michael Moore movie, and our substitute put it on, and then about five minutes in, he turned it off and said, this is on American, and he said, just

read, just read or do your homework for the rest of the class. That's incredible. It was so funny. I remember, I definitely, I think it was in high school, we were doing like stream of consciousness stuff, I think we were reading Portrait of the Artist or something, and so as an example we watched The Wall, and we had to get our parents to sign permission slips.

Sober? Yeah, and like one of the the kids complained to their parents, and so there was a little bit of a stink, because their parents were like, this is inappropriate for kids to watch. It was really funny. And then the next year we watched... Too boring for children.

We watched 1776, and I was like, man, why's that Boy Meets World guy singing all these fucking songs? Why is Mr. Feeny doing all this singing? Amazing stories all around, just like that series. Yeah, that's what the series Amazing Stories is all about. I just got presented. Do you think when they were trying to come up with a fucking title for that thing,

they're like, what do we call this show with all these amazing stories? Oh, wait, say that again. What? The show is full of amazing stories. That's it. Amazing stories. Can we shorten this? This is from Pete last name withheld who writes a while ago I asked you what I could do to be less like Dan or what Dan would recommend that I might enjoy. Why would you want to be less like Dan or what Dan would recommend that I might enjoy. Why would you want to be less like Dan? Dan's a wonderful person. He's a real sweetheart. Thank you.

I think our president would be a lot better if he was more like Dan. Yeah, I agree with that. This was just a minor update to my Dan-itis. How many Tinto Brass movies has our president seen? Probably a few, actually. Yeah, you're probably into it. This is just a minor update to my Dan-itis situation. I've blown out my knee and torn my ACL. So that's horrible. Just sorry to Pete. Yeah, sorry to hear that Pete. You know, but here's some encouragement. I'd say that my knee is back to being at 95% but the other knee deteriorated to make up for it.

So. That's terrible. And just think about it, Dan's ACL healed, but he got years of complaints out of it. So that was worth it, right? Yeah, yeah. Think of all the free drinks he got from sad people who wanted to make him feel better.

Just keep up with your physical therapy. That's the advice. But now let's move on to recommendations. Because you're like a bit of a teacher pleaser, right Dan? So like that makes sense. Well, like, yeah, you're trying to like, when your doctor gives you physical therapy, you're like, I gotta do that,

the teacher wants me to get this done. Is that true or no? Or is it entirely because you're motivated to improve yourself? I wouldn't say it's because I'm motivated to improve myself, I am motivated to, you know, like, my body is important as a way of walking around. And there's like a certain amount of knee vanity

tied in with that. Yeah, exactly. I want to have the sexiest knees. Well, that's the thing, he sees those slender mans and he's like, I gotta have knees like that, where you don't even see them. It's just a straight line up. It's impossible to have knees like slender man.

You gotta stop trying to reach a goal But he's so tall too. Like he must have knee problems like support all that. Oh for sure You guys think slender man can hoop? Good I'm not sure but it's funny to think of it Sure, but it's funny to think of it. Just later, yeah. Let's do recommendations of movies that we've seen recently or not so recently that we've enjoyed.

I'm gonna recommend. It don't limit me. Yeah, I would never. I would never, Elliot. Thank you. By the time this is out, well, I mean, people are already singing this theater, the theaters, I don't know. But I got to see an advance screening

because I had a critic friend.'s flex and everybody who invited me to an early screening of Final Destination bloodlines Which I very much enjoyed I have enjoyed Basically the entire Final Destination series even give me a quick ranking even the weakest one. I've enjoyed a little bit Just the one for four is the weakest one. I've enjoyed a little bit just the weakest one for four is the weakest. Yeah, I Well, that's the one where they're tracking down death and they're trying to kill death with different death traps and they keep escaping Of the previous ones which one is the one where the soldier plays He plays cards and he gets the thing that lets him see desk death and he catches him in a bag and that episode of the storyteller right

that's something of Jim Henson storyteller not final destination thank you um of the previous ones I think personally I would go three two five one four but a lot of them are grouped pretty closely. But this new one, really enjoyed it. Probably the best one, I would say. The one we point about it is it doesn't have like, you know, she's not bad, but like, I don't think the lead has the charisma of like Mary Elizabeth Winstead or even like Allie Larder is also like... Let alone a Diane Keaton.

Let alone a Diane Keaton. Cast her in a final destination. I would love her kind of like bumbling through a final destination would be amazing. But she's got to survive. She's got to somehow like be the only one who like is able to survive through like dithering. So... That's basically like a Mr. Magoo baby stay out situation. Yes, exactly.

I don't think the new one ever gets better than its opening sequence, which is amazing, but I do think it has a lot of fun. By this point in the series, you know what to expect out of these movies and the movie knows that you know what to expect and plays some fun games with you and your expectations. And I saw it in sort of fake IMAX

and the whole audience was hootin' and hollerin'. Are they showing that in 40X? I'm sure they have to. They have to. Yeah, they kill you at the end of the movie. Whoa! That's part of the experience, yeah. That's part of it. Dyr, what do you got?

I am going to recommend a movie that's kind of on theme with summer camp. I rewatched the movie Bull Durham, a sexy baseball comedy. They don't make a lot of sexy baseball comedies anymore. Just the one. Everybody wants some? That's kind of sexy. Yeah, I guess you're right. Yeah, but there's not a lot of baseball in it.

No. It's not really about the baseball. In some way, well, I mean, I guess Bull Durham is about the baseball. I remember watching it as a kid and being like, why isn't there more baseball in this movie? And then as an adult, I'm like, why isn't there more sex in this movie?

But it's so fun. It's a great movie. As somebody who doesn't really care that much about baseball, I feel like the movie does a very good job of translating what Baseball means to people to a person like me or at least communicating what baseball is for somebody who is not interested It also it helps that the leads are all incredibly charming I'd kind of forgotten what a sex symbol Kevin Costner was and he's just like man He's just lighting that screen on fire, baby

I'm so you saying being like, you know, like all-purpose American dad not the American dad from the TV show So not all-purpose American day He's not Steve Smith is that his name Stan Smith Yeah, I work in animation which means I know the names of all the characters on the shows I don't like. You know American Dad. Yeah. But it's... Yeah, I see American Dad sometimes at events in the industry, yeah.

Well, like Kevin Costner and Susan Sarand. We nod. We don't really know each other, but we recognize from other events. We just nod. Yeah, of course. And you guys have probably mentioned, like, hey, we should work together, but you never really follow up. You don't actually intend to work together.

No, we don't actually have that conversation, no. Okay. Maybe this is all just in the fantasies that I write or the text I write to Dan. Sure, yeah. So what I'm saying is that Kevin Costner, Susan Sarandon, very hot, Tim Robbins, fun, great movie, check it out. When are you going to launch Bolderum with your baseball fanatic son, Ali? I feel like it's not really, again, the type of baseball movie that works best for an 11-year-old. That being said, we have our go-to baseball movie in our house. League of their own, the greatest sports movie ever made. And so we watch that quite a bit in our house.

But your son loves that Susan Sontag speech, right, in Boulderm? Yeah, yeah, that's true. He really relates to that. I mean, it's a great speech, Dan. It is a great speech. But the thing is, he has a lot of issues with Son Tagge's later work. So that kind of muddies the water a little bit, yeah. Dan, what movie are you gonna recommend?

I already did. Oh yeah, that's right. It's my turn. So I'm gonna recommend a movie that is kind of the exact opposite of Summer Camp, I think, in every way, but it still says something true. It's just kind of bitterly true.

This is a movie I may have recommended in the past on the show. It's a favorite of mine, but recently, I just wanted to watch something that I knew I would get something out of, even if it wasn't always sweetness and light. And so that movie is Little Murders, starring Elliot Gould and Marcia Rod from 1971

that Alan Arkin directed, written by Jules Pfeiffer from his play of the same name. And for anyone who's not familiar, it is one of the kind of darkest comedies that is still funny to me, that I feel came out of like American in the 60s, 70s. It's not quite as grim to me as Where's Papa, a movie I do not find funny, but it's still really grim. And- Do they ever answer the question? They do not find funny, but it's still really grim.

And they just keep- Do they ever answer the question? They do not answer the question of where Papa is, no, but speaking of the movie that I'm talking about now, Little Murders, it's kind of like a nightmare vision of New York as hell in some ways, but not the kind of like brightly lit, kind of like Martin Scorsese taxi driver in New York as hell,

and more like a city that just grinds people down with real casual kind of disrespect and violence and and filth and this the acting in it is great. It's real over the top caricatured view of the world. There's some amazing monologues in it. There's a monologue that Elliot Gould has about his experience as a younger man with a government worker who was spying on him by reading his mail. That is all this one take monologue speech that really hit me really hard. I went back and rewound it and watched it again. And it's just a really great movie that I find it really funny. It'll make you feel really bad, but the performances are great.

And it's just, if you want a movie that's going to challenge gonna Challenge you to a certain extent little murders is a really good one for that I saw that movie when I was like 12 or 13 because not the right time to see even even as a kid for some reason I loved Elliot Gould Comedy I watched this and man did it horrify Movie yeah, I love when you watch a movie with a monologue like that and you're like, I gotta rewind it. I think the last time I did that was, what was that, Resurrection with Rebecca Hall? Oh, that's right.

Where you're like, what is happening here in this movie? Yeah. So this is one I highly recommend it. It's not going to be for everybody, but I think it's really amazing. So that's Little Murders. I will say one thing, try to avoid reading any summaries of it because There's a there's a thing that happens in it That should be a surprise and I remember once our good friend met Carmen who helps us with our flop TV stuff

He I recommended to him and he got it from Netflix when Netflix still mailed out DVDs and the summary on the envelope Gave away what happened as if it was something that happens in the beginning of the movie and Made him really mad. So don't bother looking up summaries of it. Just go Yeah, I don't know why you're reading summaries of the movie you're about to watch anyway But go see it in the theater where it's playing in 1971. Yeah, I guess Well, that's it for this episode I want to thank our producer Alex Smith Well, that's it for this episode. I want to thank our producer, Alex Smith.

He goes by the name Howell Doddy on the internet for all sorts of musical and Twitch streaming enterprises. That's a name that isn't naturally understood how it's spelled. So I'm gonna spell it out for you. Spell it out. I feel like we don't do it that often. It's H-O-W-E-L-L, that's Howell,

Dawdy, D-A-W-D-Y. And I also want to thank our network, Maximum Fun. If you go to MaximumFun.org, you can find a lot of great other podcasts. They say comedy and culture. One of those things applies to you. You like comedy, you like culture. Which one?

Maybe both. Maybe both. Is it possible? Who knows? Someone say comedy is part of culture. You never know. Someone say culture is part of comedy. How long is the podcast we're doing here?

I just want to stretch it at the end. Oh, okay. Well, anyway, for the Flophouse, I've been Dan McCoy. I'm Stuart Wellington. I'm Elliot Kalin. Okay, see you later, bye. Suckers. Bye.

["Beat Juice"] Do you like beat juice? Beat juice triggers. I actually do like beat juice? Beet juice triggers. I actually do like beet juice. You can't beat it. Good for the heart and from what I hear, a natural Viagra. So if you got a little bit of penis problems, then you can try to take it. How's it working for your penis?

You're drinking it right now. I mean, I'm like at least at half-mass. There's all these misty pics you keep sending. I'm drinking it right now. I mean, it's... I'm like, at least at half-mast. But it's all this talking about. There's all these Misty picks you keep sending. Ever having troubles downstairs? Just open it up like a sandworm, shove a beat in there. Man, I was so close to coffee going straight into my sinuses with that one.

That would have burned your sinuses. Yeah, I would not have enjoyed that. No, not at all. Should we do this recording or should we keep saying gross things that no one wants to hear? Let's talk about this grandma camp movie. Maximum Fun. A worker-owned network. Of artist-owned shows. Supported.

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