The Flop House - Ep.#457 – Red One, with Linda Holmes

Episode Date: August 2, 2025

Elliott had to dip out for an episode, so... how do you replace a troublemaking little scamp? How about: with the comforting, easy presence of Linda Holmes? We deserve a vacation too, y'know? And in this episode, we make good on a promise from Linda's last appearance -- to have her back to discuss that hearty slice of Christmas "content," Red One. Back then, Linda sounded surprisingly fond of it. Is she still? Will the two extant Peaches agree?Tickets for Flop TV Season 3 are ON SALE! It's our once a month (Sept-Feb) video livestream -- like a TV version of our show, but more so! This year the theme is FLOPSTERPIECE THEATER, and we’ll be discussing one significant bad movie per decade from the 2000s back to the 1950s! Dip your toe in with a single-show ticket, or get a discount with a full season pass!Subscribe to our NEWSLETTER, “Flop Secrets!Wikipedia page for Red OneRecommended in this episode:Dan: Superman (2025), Extra Ordinary (2019)Stu: M3GAN 2.0 (2025)Linda: Shattered Glass (2003)Head to squarespace.com/FLOP for a free trial, and when you’re ready to launch, use OFFER CODE: FLOP to save 10% off your first purchase of a website or domain.

On this episode we discuss Red One. The movie where we learn how Bruce Willis, Helen Mirren, John Malkovich, and other old stars got into this mess or whatever, right? Right. Hey, everyone, and welcome to the Flop House. I'm Dan McCoy. I'm Stuart Wellington. And surprise, surprise, who's here? Elliot Kalen.

Oh, no, hey. You look different. Yeah, I'm feeling good. I'm feeling good. Elliot, you know, I don't know. He's got some nonsense. Some bullshit going on. And by that, it means a.

busy, you know, like a busy social life. He's just goofing around on a beach somewhere. He's on a beach. Yeah. Having a banana daquiry. No, we've got Linda Holmes back, of course. Of course we do. Who better?

I'm so delighted to be here on my dog's favorite podcast. Now, I'm glad you brought this up. Your dog's dog's favorite podcast. That's right. There is this, you put an Instagram story up about this actually about how you, the dog had gotten used to hearing the podcast in bed. And so now if the dog gets lonely, if you're not ready to go to bed at the same time as the dog that we are there to. I have a tendency to use the back catalog of some of my favorite podcasts as my kind of like soothing audio, you know, I've done this with like various

shows, but I do it a lot with this show. So the dog's very used to it. This is calming down time. And so if he, you know, if he's in the, if he's upstairs and he's kind of, you know, grumpy and whining at me, I just pick up my phone and I play a little episode on the Sonos speaker up in the bedroom for him. And he settles down right away. It's just, it just brings him a sense of calm. Isn't it wonderful? The funny thing is, that's also how I calm Dan down. I put him in on the couch. I fire up an episode of his favorite podcast, Talk Tua.

And it just puts him right to sleep. Yeah. Should we sing the dog a lullaby or something? I feel like you should do some sort of targeted. No, it's just what it is. It's just perfectly what it is. Yeah, I feel like with Elliot not here, all of a sudden we're a singing podcast.

He just wants it exactly as it is. Okay. Well, that's good. Uh-huh. You can't change things, Stan. Friend to the animals. Don't try to exert control. But I am here with my, I am no Elliot Kalin,

but I am here with my willing heart. in my list of famous people I have seen on Broadway. Oh, great. That's pretty. Excellent. Well, so we're going to talk about Red One today, and part of the reason we were going to do it now was for it to be Christmas in July. And it was only as I was sitting down to watch that I realized that because of the schedule, this, of course, will come out at the beginning of August. So that reason has gone away.

But the reason still exists that we promised that we would have Linda Beck to defend. this, I assume her favorite movie. That's what we do. That's what this show's all about is bringing guests on to defend a movie they like. That's right. That's right. When I was on here talking,

I think when I was talking about trap with you guys, right? Yeah. The Josh Hartnett classic trap. I think we all liked it. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think Linda liked at least.

Yeah, I liked at least and I still think he's very good in it. I still think he's. And by the way, if you have not seen him in, fight or flight. It is a killer. You must see it. It's like... Does he get trapped on a plane? Yes. And it is essentially Josh Hartnett fighting assassins for like an hour and a half. And it is, I would say, 49% John Wick and 51% Shark Nato,

plus or minus 2%. Right? And he's got like, he's got like bleach blonde die job, right? Perfect. Yeah. And at one point he's like, he's like high on toad venom. There's like it's a, it is a whack-a-doodle movie and I absolutely loved it. Closing in on like crank territory right there. Yeah, and it's incredibly bloody. I enjoyed it very, very greatly. But anyway, when I was here talking about Trap, I mentioned that I had seen Red One

and I had enjoyed it in 4DX being thrown around like a sack of potatoes. Or a presence. Or presence, exactly. And so I find myself back here, having watched it again to see whether I still like it. Without the additional D.

Yes, without the additional D and also without the timing of the fact that the first time I saw this movie, it was a week after the election in November of 2024. So it was like the end of a long season. And, you know, I work in a newsroom. And so, you know, just like a bit of heavy time for people, you know. I was probably going into it hoping that it would be like a good time. So I was curious when I got into it this time, whether I would still. like it, without the pressure of, you know, wanting desperately to have a good time. Yeah, I mean, the world's gotten so much better since then, right?

Yeah, since everything is cool now. Just everything. I had imagined you were going to say, like, oh, you know, like, and, of course, the first time I saw it was a time that there was a gas leak in my home. I was high on toad venom. It wouldn't, it wouldn't, no, I went out to an actual movie theater. I got air blown in my face. It was, it was.

Does that interrupt the. ability to snack in the movie? I've never done 40X. I can say that I went to see Twisters in 40X which you know like

left 40X and then came back to it because it was like everyone wanted to see it that way. I heard it was great in 40X I mean we had a lot of fun other than like it was one of the wildest screenings in terms of like

weird shit going on around us that distracted us for the first half of the movie but once those people were thrown out. It was fine. But I can tell you that Audrey, for some reason, decided that this was the time to get nachos. Yes. And if you're getting thrown around. It really, like, people think it's just going to be like a vibrating chair, like a massage chair or something. No, this thing throws you around. And it is serious. Fortunately, at the beginning of that screening, I did find the button on the arm of the chair that said water so that I could turn it off. Because, listen, I, I,

I'm a good sport. I'm a game girl. I don't want dirty movie theater water sprayed in my face. That's not, that's over the line. That's over the line. So I just got the, you know, the chair throwing me around and the, and the breeze blowing in my face. There were some snow explosions that happened. And there are these things that like poke you in the back, not entirely pleasant.

But, yeah, so that was my first experience of Red One. Now I got to enjoy it at home. The way, believe it or not, I think it was originally intended to be seen. Yes. This was supposed to first be just an Amazon release. And then I read on the Wikipedia page that the Rock saw Oppenheimer and said Red One in IMAX would be a game changer. Yeah. That was his quote.

That's what I heard. Man, he's right. Well, no. Red Run in theaters was a bomb. It was, however, a huge, you know, hugely viewed on Amazon Prime. I don't quite understand, though, still the economics of that idea

because it's like, at this point, people have these services or they don't have these services to do, like, a huge movie as like a lost leader to get people in the door. I don't know who's subscribing to be like, I got to see that red one.

I mean, you know, the only time we've subscribed for something is when poker face came out on peacock, and we subscribed a peacock for that. That's good. Still to this day, maintain that subscription. That's worthwhile. It's not a bad service. People make fun of that one for some reason,

but I feel like it's got... Yeah, I mean, all the, the UI on all of them is terrible. Yes. Sure. But so it's hard to complain as one being worse than the others. Yeah. Yeah. And I do...

That one is the traders, too, right? Traders is great. Sure watches the fuck out of the traitors. Although I feel like Traders U.S. is, despite outside of Allen coming and his little outfits, and attitude, he's got a lot of attitude. Outside of that, I feel like it's not as good as the other ones. Like, UK Traders is awesome. I would agree with that. Australian Traders is awesome.

I think on the whole the fact that the U.S. traders is much more interested in celebrities and famouses. Yeah. Well, specifically like people who. Specifically reality show people. Yes. I think hurts it. But, yeah, I mean, listen, Alan coming in his little outfits is a lot. Yes.

It takes you quite a ways. It gets me through the door at least. It gets you quite away, especially after they added his dog. I mean, come on, man. But I will say, as what I promise will be my last piece of wind up. I do have a long history of being a liker of made for streaming action block bumpers. They're not like block busters, but they're like maybe they'll bump your block a little bit. Like, they're not like I was the person who liked, I liked Redmond.

notice more than most people. I liked the gray man more than most people. I liked the Kevin Hart Heist movie Lyft, which was on Netflix, which I think no one saw. You haven't even said like Carri-on or something, something that was genuinely liked. Carri-on was good. People genuinely like that. And I liked that. G20 with Viola Davis as the president. Oh, yeah, yeah. I like that too. I mean, the thing is, is I would vote twice just for those shoulders alone. I mean, she is yoked. So I am sort of like, I have a history for whatever reason of being kind of in the bag for these sort of cheap, disposable action movies. I don't know why. So this is all the history that I bring to Red One.

Okay. Well, let's dig into Red One. I'm going to be... But now the gloves are coming off. I'm going to be driving this. Good luck. Apologies, if I ever get too detailed. You guys can.

Without Elliott here, though, I feel like... Pretty detailed. I'll do my best to interrupt constantly. Okay. So at the beginning we get a little preface where the kid version, who will be Chris Evans' characters, takes a key from his relatives. They look exactly alike to you.

Well, I kind of liked that they didn't, like, try and find a kid that looked exactly like. I wish they had stuck Chris Evans' head on a little kid's body. He could do it. He's got their range. He does have the range. Yeah, it's true. What they should do is, like, do an opposite materialist

and make him six inches shorter. Do they make him taller and materialist? Not him. Oh, who? Pedro? Yeah. You haven't watched materialists yet? You know, I was all...

Don't want to be in the conversation. I was all in for it. Like, you know, I liked past lives, not as much as you. But I liked it, and I like all those people. And then there was, like, such sort of mixed word on it. And there were other things. I just never got around. Okay.

Interesting. Interesting. It's only okay. It's only okay. But it's got, you know, I can't miss a DJ theater movie, you know. That's what you call her. My favorite crazy person. Did we see Madam Webb together, Stuart?

Or was it? No, I watched it by myself. And a guy was like, one for Madam Webb? Yep. So, okay, young kid, Chris Evans, steals a key from relative to show his cousins that Santa doesn't exist. There's a cash. presence upstairs and we get a too short cameo from Mark Evan Jackson as his uncle who insists that Santa is real.

So this does bypass my problem with a lot of like Santa Israel movies where the adults don't, like the adults don't think Santa is real and then I'm like, well, where did all those presents come from? But anyway, we flash forward 30 years. So what maintains the economy if Santa's, real. Who's buying all the stuff? Well, you still buy presents for

non-Santa presents. There's the ones from your parents. I don't. Santa. I just wait for Santa. I think Santa would have to have like a sideline in crime to obtain the funds to run all this

stuff. Yeah, and that's the kind of in the weeds that this movie gets regarding the science and reality of the Santa situation. But go on. We go forward 30 years adult Chris Evans A.K. Jack O'Malley, A.K.A. the wolf is some kind of tracker, super hacker.

He's MacGyvering, a distraction. I'm like a bad guy. He's like a bad guy. Yeah, he's a bad guy. But like for someone who apparently is like a criminal who does work for all these like mercenaries all over the world, like he's more of like a, you know, he's a comedy bad guy. He's got a... Yeah, he steals candy from a baby, literally.

Yeah, he's got a big city New York accident of some kind that he's put on. East Coast. Anyway, he's MacGybering his way into a security center to implant a USB for some reason as a job to pay off gambling debts. As you say, he steals some candy from a baby. And then we get the title drop, Red One. That's when we stand up and cheer, right? Yeah, immediately. It's like the flashes enter the speed force.

And we get to see the titular red one immediately. He's J.K. Simmons. He's the real Santa. He's a jacked Santa. Yeah. How do you feel about that? I have to say, like, if they're going to use a thing we know about J.K. Simmons as a quality of Santa Claus, like they went with lifting.

I would maybe have gone with singing the fugue for T. Tin Horns from Guys and Dolls. Like, I might have, like, incorporated that into Santa, but they go with the lifting. Now, one of my friends commented on this movie that it was like if Spike TV was starting to get in on the Hallmark movie thing. And I think part of that is, like, this jacked Santa thing. So, yeah, you see J.K. Simmons working out, which is the thing we all know, right? From, like, Instagram and, like, well, I mean, it's hard to miss, I feel like, because

At this point, yeah, he's made a point of it. I actually did not know until just, like, this month that he was a singer, that he'd been on Broadway. I saw one of those, like, YouTube, I'm talking about all my roles things. And he was talking about how, like, when he was looked at for whiplash, you know, the director didn't know that he had a background in music. Yeah. Oh, yeah. He's got a beautiful voice. Yeah.

So that was exciting. I immediately sent Audrey videos of him singing. He was wonderful. He was in this really, really successful revival of guys and dolls that Peter Gallagher was in and Nathan Lane was in. Oh, that one? Yeah. I mean, I feel like was that a bigger surprise

than finding out that Mads Mikkelson was a ballet dancer? Maybe. I mean, because like Simmons is known for like being like a gruff dude. Did it give you the ton of? Mummy butterflies the way, finding out Mads Mickleson was a ballet dancer. Yeah, not the same. Not the same. He's got that grace.

Anyway, so he's posing as a mall Santa to get out amongst the kids, hear what's up in the world. Some asshole influencer tries to cut the line, and we meet The Rock, who's his security, Santa's security, with a totally normal name, Callum Drift. Hell yeah. Oh, hell yeah. That's like, man, that's like a, that's like a, that's like a, first draft D&D character name.

We get a little... First drift. My mistake, sorry. LA's not here to call me on it. So he backs the influencer off. After, you know, his shift as mall Santa, we get a little talk back and forth where we learn that the rock is losing

his Christmas spirit and wants to quit. Retire an, yeah. Santa's motorcade goes to the airport. Yeah, the whole thing is very like action movie, like dealing with a VIP or a president and like they're like the rock is like Santa's Secret Service, right? Yeah, I know he's treated as a head of state

Santa is sort of. Yes, very much. And there's so many people involved in this fucking process. They like, when they take off on their sleigh, there's like fighter jets following them. Like how, what's going on? How do they keep the secret?

They're just really, they're just really good. Also, yeah, I guess that must be it. At this point, why do they keep this secret? Like, why do they let it be thought by, you know, many, apparently that Santa does not exist if he is, in fact, someone who exists and gives presents to everybody? You would think a move that spends so much time with the logistics of everything else would take a second to think about that part. Anyway, well, so as he takes off, just because it'll become important at the end, Santa says, Cavalame, his magic version of mush to his flying reindeer, which... Is this in canon, guys?

Is this... I did not look up Cavalame. Not that I don't know. I don't know that. I looked up some other stuff that we'll get into later, but not that word. Yeah, you looked up Bonnie Hunt feet. I would add, by the way, the reindeer are also quite jacked. The reindeer are also just...

They have been drinking a lot of... Mountain Dew or what's the new one? What's the one that... Code Red? No, that's not new, I guess. No, I'm like, what's the, like, is it cert? Not surge, but what's the one that like, that some, like, influencers are hawking?

I don't know. Oh, man. Crunch. I don't know that much about influencers, influencers and soda pop, buddy. I have a friend with, like, a son who spends all his time on YouTube, and so he's very into YouTube-based food and drink. All I know about influencers and liquids is that they,

use expensive bottled water to do everything. Yes, right. So Chris Evidence, Chris Evidence. Now that is a thing that's going to stay with me that I'm going to work on. Chris, sometimes I think I have some sort of a phagea and I get worried. Elliot and I text about it all the time. Really? No.

Chris Evans sent some coordinates to someone mysterious. And Santa arrives at the North Pole, which is, of course, a bunch of CGI mush, just gray CGII nonsense. It's like winter Dubai, right? Yeah, yeah. Basically. Yeah.

Creatures are getting ready for Christmas. We get Mrs. Claus, the aforementioned Bonnie Hunt, another person who's not in the movie long enough. Yeah. And so The Rock, we get follow up on him wanting to quit. he hands in his resignation letter and he and Santa have a heart to heart during weight lifting. Yeah. And I'm like, wow, that's a serious overhead press he's doing there.

I'm like, oh, he's going to squat three plates. That's pretty good. That's like the max I've ever done. And they just starts overhead pressing it. And I'm like, there's no way. He's got to be magic. Yeah. But then they like, later on, they make a comment that it's okay that he eats cookies because he burns so many calories or something on Christmas Eve.

I'm like, what the fuck? Look, dude, he's magic. You don't need to talk about calories and shit. Yeah, I guess this is like a reason to explain why he's, you know, a jacked Santa rather than the traditional jolly round man that we all know. But I don't know. Give me a rounder one. He can be jacked and round at the same time.

Yeah. So, yeah, Santa doesn't want the Rock to go. They talk about it, but this is the first year that there are more people on the naughty list than a nice list, and calumdrift is just fed up. Yeah, I don't believe that. Like, what about during slavery, dude? That's crazy. And Santa says that they can't change people,

just see who they really are and believe in them. Will this have some thematic significance later in the movie? Who knows? I can't imagine. Probably not. Meanwhile, an armed mercenary team are approaching the North Pole, like it's the beginning of Scrooge. and The Rock notices that there's something wrong with some of the security lights

and they can't find Red One, aka Santa. He's been taken with Naria Liam Neeson in sight. He's more sludgy CGI where there's a chase. He catches up to the sled, but Santa's not in it. Uh-oh. Yeah, Charlene was asking, Charlene spent like 10 minutes asking me my thoughts on when there's sequences where the rock is like sliding down, like, sliding down, like slides and stuff.

Yes, like he's on a roller coaster track. They're like, she's like, so do they film him, like, pretending to be sliding down something? I'm like, I don't know. I think The Rock is one of those performers that's really easy to animate because he doesn't have any hair or anything. So he's like a default guy, like default strength build, basically. You told Charlene, like, hold on, let me text Todd Vaziri. Todd.

Yes. How they make rock slides. Well, the thing that I think is interesting about this is that I was thinking about, While I was watching this opening, is it like, I think all the effects, like in that part where there, he's outside and he's sliding on these tracks and he's falling. Like, all that stuff I think looks terrible. And yet I think some of the, not all, I think some of the, like creature stuff is cool. Like, I like the big security polar bear. I like that guy.

Garcia. Garcia. And a lot of the non-effects-based parts of this movie look better. better than this type of movie usually do. Like, Jake Kasden's the director, and he's a reliable, you know, journeyman director. It's crazy because he doesn't have, like, a famous dad who's ever been or any famous relatives, right? Exactly. He got there, I just got there the old-fashioned way.

But, no, I think, like, parts of it look really, really cheap and terrible. And other parts of it, I was like, yeah, okay, like the, you know, Garcia. And, like, I said, the reindeer, I think, are, like, pretty cool. but then other parts of it is like sub-sci-fi channel. Well, I liked a lot of the monsters in Crompice's cavern of weirdos. Yeah. It felt like a lot of those were masks unless the CGI is so good. And I'm getting so old that I can't tell the difference.

No, it could be. It could be. And I wouldn't say it looked like great per se, but I found the killer snowmen that come up later on pretty fun. Oh, yeah. Those guys are cool and kind of creepy. And they're all kind of hot frosties, too. They are.

They are hot frosties. They have well-defined. You see some glutes, yeah. It's true. Okay, well, Lucy Liu appears in the movie. I'm glad to see her because I've been watching elementary with Audrey. Have I talked about how much I think Johnny Lee Miller's performance is inspired by Sam the Eagle from the Muppets? You have not, please.

Because he doesn't turn his neck at all when he acts. I love it. It's true. That's true. That's like his whole thing. I love it. Well, she appears on the screen in the North Pole situation room to yell at the rock about Santa being kidnapped and to say that they picked up some kind of tracking device that paints the North Pole that they've traced it to the wolf.

So back to Chris Evans, who's down and out. He's being reamed over the phone by his kids' mom, Mary Elizabeth Ellis, the waitress from It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia. He's a bad dad, hacker dad. We learned that, among other things, he needs to learn how to be a better father. That's going to be his arc. She wants him to pick up their son, Dylan, from school. He's in trouble for doing some shenanigans that sort of follow in his dad's footsteps. And they have a conversation in the car.

It sort of makes it clear that while Chris Evans isn't the greatest role model, they still have a pretty good relationship in that he's a teen boy who actually talks to it. his dad, wants to talk to his dad. Yeah. And the kid mentions that there's this winter jazz band pageant thing that night playing it off like it's dumb, but it's clear that he wants his dad to be there. Although he doesn't get the message. The wolf is not listening. No.

It's too early in the arc for listening. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. As apartment, he's surprised by a bunch of law enforcement and gets to show off some of his Captain America moves. He almost gets away, but is zapped by the... Lucy, who does a terrible job of interrogating him in the next scene with a lot of vague questions or statements like, we know what you did and who hired you to find him. Yeah.

Which for a man who, like, does a lot of this work seems very nonspecific. I do like that they zap him with these special guns that you have to, like, touch somebody with to knock him out, and then they have to touch him with a different gun to wake him up. Yes, yes. It's efficient. It's efficient. And I think the reason why she does the interrogation that way, the reason why it's written that way is that what they're really going for in this interrogation

is him gradually realizing what's going on. They're going for him gradually being like, what are you talking about? Who are you asking about? Because naturally he's eventually going to figure out that they're talking about Santa Claus. And so I think if she came in like to, if she came in being like, why did you help kidnap Santa Claus? You wouldn't have that slow, like, him figuring out that that's what she's talking about, which is kind of where they're going, I think, with the interrogation.

I think that's where they're going. I don't think it particularly works because we know this is a movie about Santa Claus getting kidnapped. Yeah. You know that, but he doesn't know that. I understand, but I feel like wasting our time doing this cliche is less interesting. Well, I like the idea. I didn't realize that they had a different wake-up gun. I like the idea.

They're like, oh, sorry, I left the wake-up gun back at the office. We just have the sleepy gun. Yeah, there's a lot of stuff where he's like mentioning things, and they'll be like, oh, wow, is that the headless horseman? And they're like, yeah, he's real, ho-hum, boring. Yeah, well, that happens at the bunker that's sort of the headquarters of M-O-R-A, more the mythological oversight and restoration authority, where Lucy Lou is presumably the chief of that operation.

The director. And, yeah. Evans, we skip over him being like, this is crazy by him seeing the Headless Horseman, which is pretty good proof right away that creatures and beasties exist. And he learns that he accidentally helped kidnap Santa. And The Rock shows up. He introduces himself as the head of ELF,

which is Enforcement's Logistics and Fortification. ELF. Mm-hmm. I get it. I get it, guys. Electric light fork is struck. Yeah. They play electric forks.

Mm-hmm. So we get some of the films most cliched writing in this scene. Like, this is like, I'm going to spoil some of my reaction. Like, some of this movie worked for me, but the main problem is how many. like cliches or piled on cliches in this movie, like just on a screenplay level. And we get Evans being saying the line, are you saying Santa Claus has been kidnapped?

And also he gets to say... Slower for the trailer, please. They're talking about him and he gets to say, I'm right here. Oh, yeah. I do get that one. That's true. But, you know, he has no loyalties.

He finds people so. Lucy Lou decides just to pay him to find the guy he helped lose and we've got our mismatched buddy team for this action comedy and The Rock. And I want to say like this movie

could have been so much more insufferable if Chris Evans' character was Ryan Reynolds. Like this feels like a Ryan Reynolds character and Evans does everything right that Reynolds would do wrong. like

think about how bad the materialist would have been if it had been Ryan Reynolds oh man in a way I kind of wish they did that swap so it actually become

like serious bad movie yeah I mean I think like when I watched Chris Evans when I became a fan of Chris Evans in his time in the MCU I was very like I am super into

Chris Evans handsome dork right but it has turned out later that I am way more into Chris Evans' hot dirt bag. Like, that is even better to me. That's sort of what he's doing in materialist. It's what he's doing in this. It's kind of what he's doing in Gray Man.

Like, when he's a dirt bag, I'm very, very into it as I am in this movie. Or, you know, an asshole. Like, that's a good gear for him, like Knives Out or Scott Pilgrim. Or Grey Man again. Yeah. That too. Oh, such a hot dirtbag. Well, of course, you know, a pro like the wolf has actually does have some idea of where the money man who asked him to do this is he put a tracker on something or other.

So they go, they need to go to Aruba. The rock reveals that toy stores are transit stations for Elf. They can zap people all around the world. So they go to Aruba and he has a... By the way, as you were saying toy stories or transit stations, I'm literally like nodding along happily. Stewart is shaking his thing. I hate it.

They like walk into this massive toy store and I'm like, do these even exist anymore? I thought they were all out of business. And then they go through, they use a special key and go through an employee closet that connects to a different, to a closet in an Aruba toy store. And they, in the process,

they scoop up a whole bunch of toys, which they will later use the Rock's arm bracer to distort alter the reality and make it a real thing. Yeah. This is a,

I'm somewhere between the two of you because I'm like, well, if you're going to make this movie and I don't recommend it, but you're going to make it, like you got to do some of this stuff, right? You got to be like, okay, let's, like, what are the Christmas things

that we can work with here? But it also does feel like they put up a, big whiteboard, and they're like, Christmas, go, toys, toy stores, what do you do with them? Like, we got to go down the checklist, you know? I do like the reoccurring. This movie got at least three laughs out of me, and one of them was when they're in the mall in Philadelphia, and there's a woman angrily complaining on the phone about essential oils.

And then they end up going into a mall in Germany, and there's a woman in German complaining about essential rules. Yes. And Chris Evans clocks it, so I guess he speaks German. That's an unknown. Yeah, interesting character trait.

But anyway, Santa's being held by our villain. Turns out our villain is Kiernan Shipka, Miss Madman, Sabrina herself. She's draining his magic energy and some kind of Santa tank.

Some of this is like a lot of order grouping things rather than, she's trying to duplicate some kind of a weapon, which is a revealed to be... This is all what I call the blah, blah, blah section of the movie.

Yeah, she's got a weapon that's like the snow globe. She wants to use it. She says, I'll start with the first name on the list. And her magic list reveals the name Aaron Abel. And I'm like, there's no way that's the first name on the list. There's no like Aaron Aronson, Ardberg, Ardvark. Like, come on. You know, you should put all these...

You should put all these in a letter. And you should send it to them in the event they make a sequel. Dear Santa, I was very disappointed in your movie. And here's why. Also, I would like a opponent since your... I love that Linda's basically saying like a blanket to the flop house. Go tell it to the Marines. To elf.

Yeah. Exactly. Well, we're in Aruba now. On the beach, they're in Warton. Charlene made a comment. She's like, oh, I guess somebody wanted to go to Aruba. And I'm like, there's no way. in the world.

They went to Aruba for this. Yeah. Yeah, it looks like they just threw some sand. But, yeah, on the beach, there are more thonged bikinis than I was expecting in Red One. And Evans uses his scumbum-bom powers to detect other scum-bums and locate the bad guys. There's a fight where the rock changes size from rock-sized to off-sides. I kind of like this. You liked Little Rock?

Yeah, yeah. Wasn't that a show Little Rock? Rock? Yeah, it wasn't it? Wasn't that a state capital? Yeah, I think it was, it is a city. It's also, there was a show, I think, Young Rock, I think was a show. I think that's true.

Well, he's not young, he's just little, because he clicks his little heels together and he gets small. Yeah, he gets small and then big. Right, Ant Man. Yeah. It's pretty funny, though. But he only gets like, he gets like, he doesn't get tiny. No, just enough to be distracting.

He gets, like, scale model size. He gets like if you were making a model of the rock To like show somebody how you were going to costume him or something But you didn't want it to be like six and a half feet tall You would make this scale model of the rock That's how big he looks Yeah because the rock is too big So if you need to print him

You're like I got to do this at what like 60% This is a mechette of the rock We want to build a rock It's a figure It's a figure Yeah A rocket So we do

Christmasy We meet the middle man Who's played by Nick Kroll He makes a meal out of this one guys Yeah No he's always good for a big performance He won't give the name of the woman who employed him Because she will hear it

So the rock says write it in the sand And then Evans reads it aloud anyway like a doofus and it's Grela who is an actual figure from Scandinavian mythology a kind of a troll queen The guy that Hanselho shot

No that's That's Grilo instead She hears her name From across the globe And possesses Kroll This is I think a fun bit Like he gives He gives a lot to this.

He's possessed. He enjoys this part. He's like, I'm not going to be in this movie long. I'm going to do the most here. He enjoys being possessed by which. Yeah. I mean, I get it, guys. So through Kroll, she outlines her plan.

She wants to punish everyone who's ever been naughty. And she sends some snowmen to attack them. These guys are hard to fight until you realize you, you can just yank their carrot noses off and kill them. And they have freezing powers and they're ridiculously jacked. And they all pile out of an ice cream truck. I got to look more like these snowmen. Yeah, yeah.

We get a little vignette of Aaron Abel acting like an asshole and getting trapped in a snow globe left by the bad guys. And I'm supposed to, I guess, zap immediately back to Greya, but Greala but doesn't. so I don't know I don't know why this scene is in here necessarily I don't know I think they're trying to show that it's not quite ready yet also that it does something when you open the box

and they need to show the stakes so that later on when somebody opens a box you're like oh no they're just trying to introduce the idea that these snow globes are no pointo you open the snow globe you touch it and like Aaron Able you scream inside your car

and then you disappear. I think it's such a shame, right? Because this really killed the snow globe industry when they put it in this movie like this because kids were terrified of them. Gigantic lawsuit, I think, from the snow globe industry. But this is defamatory. Didn't they have like a baseball stadium

where they were just like burning snow globes? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Throwing it was in Philadelphia. They throw them onto the field, you know. And previously, previously kids loved snow globes, their favorite toys. Just shaking them, look at them after the event. Their favorite toy is their phone, I think, forever.

Yeah. Yeah, that's true. So, okay, the trail's gone a little cold, but Lucy Lou and our team look for unauthorized magic and find one at the home of Santa's adopted brother. So they go to Germany, where Evans on the way gets a phone call about this concert from Dylan's mom that he should go to. but he's busy saving Christmas

and we get another heart to heart where Evan sells the Rock he's staying out of Dylan's life because he doesn't want to disappoint him and the Rock is like well that strategy is clearly not working so we're going to get a Christmas change of heart I think.

Should be a good dad, hacker dad. Fingers crossed. Fingers crossed. We get a little info dump outside of Santa's brother's lair about how they used to work together but the brother got interested in punishing people more than punching the naughty, more than rewarding the nice.

So Santa took the list away from him. And of course, Santa's brother is revealed to be crampus. Of course, yeah. Everyone's favorite Christmas-themed villain, I guess. Demon, semi-villian. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, man, as Evans later says. Yeah.

So Evans immediately ignores the Rock's warning. not to touch anything inside of Crampus's home and steal some gold which gets them caught and in prison the rock gives him a little quiet lecture about there's always a choice to be good or not be good

and he also says the line I was one day away from retirement which I was happy to hear because why do it if you're not going to say it? Exactly. So I do like there was a little bit where they have to distract some hellhounds by the rock, what, altering the reality of his little rubber chicken keychain to turn

into a chicken that distracts the dogs, only for it to show up right when they're leaving so that the chicken can come back to them. That was a cool character. I like that one. Helpful rescue chicken. Yeah. That's very D&D to me. That feels like a very D&T move. They go to see Crampus. He's in the middle of this slapping game where creatures slap each other to unconsciousness or death? What do you think of the slapping games, Stuart? Would you ever... I'm a gamer boy.

I put me in. Okay. I like this because I thought it was... I think it's extremely weird. And I think this movie is at its best when it's more weird. Yep. And I think the idea of them just slapping the shit of each other is weird and funny.

I was into the slapping contest, yeah. Yeah. And this is a rare moment where The Rock is... is presented rare moment in his career where the rock is presented to be less tough than someone else. Yes, that's true. There's no, you didn't put in the, in his contract, like, the rock must be shown to be able to beat any crampuses.

Yeah, can't. That's true. He can't be shown as getting the shit slapped out of him by a mythological figure. That's true. I mean, it's a good thing they didn't have Vin Diesel playing crampus or they couldn't have done it this way, I think, because wasn't that the, wasn't that the rumor was that they would, didn't allow each other to beat them up in the, or was that, is that him and Jason Statham?

No, no, that was, yeah, it was him and Vin Diesel. The understanding I had was, yeah, that all fights had to sort of be interrupted at the end, so there was no clear winner. Yeah. Oh, boy, yeah. So the Rock tries to appeal to crampas' of brotherly affections.

Vin Diesel's history with being a street shark spokesperson, I think would have really translate well to him being a good crampus. Not to deride the guy who was playing crampus who was doing... Yeah. He was also an iron giant.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. And the guy who plays crampus I think is a Game of Thrones guy, but he is doing his damnedest to sound like Nandor from what we do with the shadows. He was a street shark spokesperson. Yeah, he was like,

there's a commercial of Vind Diesel selling street sharks. Okay. You haven't seen this? Maybe. I don't know. This is, it slipped my mind if I... Okay, we're going to pause the podcast,

and Dan's going to Google this real quick. It's going to change your life. It's like Googling Vin Diesel with hair, which is also a very fun thing to look at. At first it sounded to me like, you know, like the street sharks, you know, would amongst themselves, you know, come up with like their feelings on a thing

and then Vin Diesel would come out. Oh, yeah, that's what, yeah, the street sharks are... He's a representative for street sharks. Yeah, it's the... He's like the big slam moo is really standing up for trans rights. It's the most bureaucratic part of West Side Story. So Prampus says, look, I'll let you, the wolf, Jack O'Malley, Chris Evans,

I'll let you go to deliver a warning to Mora to not do this, not sneak into my lands, but I am going to keep Callumdrift forever as my prisoner has punishment. And so... Nobody ever wants to imprison anybody temporarily. Have you noticed that? And things like this, it's all. he's like you're going to be imprisoned forever in the snow globe you're going to get bored of him for a while right exactly it's like how long do you want to feed this guy have you seen him yeah i've

seen what he eats have you seen what the rock eats it's crazy i mean i don't think they're gonna keep up with his regimen then he's gonna look yeah yeah he eats uh eats one of those steaks that tips your whole prehistoric car over i mean he is called the rock right that's a that's a that's a Flintstone's name. It's true. It's true. Also, in terms of, like, their detective work or whatever, it turns out that Santa is not there, that Rila just came there to get the original evil snow globe that she's now

manufacturing. Because she and Grampus used to date or be an item of some flavor. Yeah. So, again, Evans is free to go, but he takes the Rock's words to heart about seizing the opportunity to do the right thing. and he says he recognizes another betting man in crampus and challenges crampus to a slap fight against the rock for their freedom. And the rock, of course, is like WTF because crampus is, you know, like a winter god, essentially.

Yeah. And he is overmatched until Evans pickpockets the risk doohickeback, which allows him to slap crampus harder. and also zap some rock and sackam robots large so they can escape. I think that's cute. I like the rockam-sockom robots. I did like the rock-and-sacom robots. But now they're a true team.

They leave to save Christmas. But Evans again accidentally says Grilat's name, which makes her manifest a piano in the road in front of their car, which is playing the dance of the sugar plum fairy. And it has a present address to Jack O'Malley. That was a good line when, Chris Evans is like, does this sort of thing happen to you a lot? Yeah.

And the rock's like, what, a player piano in the middle of a road in Germany? No, that's rare. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, he is wisely suspicious of this mystery magic piano present. He doesn't pick up the snow globe and tell Dylan phones mad that he is not at this jazz. Badgent performance. Guys, TV and movies show people using FaceTime, like, all the time. Do you guys face- Is this a thing that I just don't do and everybody else is doing?

Should I be FaceTime? The young people might. I don't personally, because the percentage of the time that I wish to be seen is not as high as it is, perhaps, for Chris Evans and his son. I like having, I like being seen a lot, but I also feel like it's hard for me to get the angle right. so it's not just all nose hair. Right, sure. I would say that, like, definitely, like, phoning is sort of mostly off the menu. It's primarily text, and I will FaceTime, but only with, like, family.

If it's, like, this is, we got to see each other face to face every once in a while. Yeah, yeah. Make sure my dad didn't get a really weird haircut or something. I do have, like, I have a couple. Like, I have a couple of people that I still talk to on the phone. And the great thing is that now it's like, now it's like really special. Like, I have a friend who lives in Wisconsin. And she calls me, like, sometimes from her car when she's on the way home from work,

she'll just call me, just so we can chat. And, like, it's really cool because, like, nobody talks to me at the phone anymore. So she calls them, I was like, yay! Because, you know, my little phone lights up, which usually just means it's something about work. But it's like, oh, it's someone who just wants to chat and say hello. So I agree. Phoning is mostly gone, but it's not completely gone. And when it comes back in my life, I'm always a little bit glad.

I will say that the one person I will have a phone conversation with is the absent Elliot Katelyn. Every once in a while, we will have a phone call to reaffirm our friendship apart from this business enterprise long running. That's really important. Yeah, we have to have a lot of it. It's always like, Elliot, you need to take more time off. Yeah. Yeah, it's a lot of me just, yeah, you're killing yourself. Yeah, you're killing yourself.

And sometimes I'll get a phone call. from, I'm always excited when I get a phone call from Hodgman when he's driving up to Maine or something. Nice. I absolutely believe it. Yeah. Entertain me, Stuart. I'm like, oh, I'll try.

This is what a bar is. This is what beers we have on tap. Okay, so the Rock realizes that if Griloh wants to mass produce these snow globes, the one place to do it is the North Pole. So Santa must actually have never left. It was all a fake out, a diversion. He calls...

Do we address that Chris Evans and his son both get sucked up in snow globes? Oh, yeah, sorry, sorry. I, we sort of... Yeah, we got diverted in the middle of it. Yes. Dylan had phoned him mad about the... Not being at the performance

in sending this dumb snow globe instead. And he's like, no, don't touch the snow globe. He gets sucked in. So Chris Evans says, you know, I'm going to get sucked into this snow globe. Find me. Find me. Very last of the Mohicans.

Yeah. I mean, if you're going to steal, steal from the best. So romantic. So romantic. Find me. So yes. Again, the rock realizes, okay, he must actually be at the North Pole. Santa must have never left.

It was a fake out. He calls the pole. He realizes that Mrs. Claus is actually one of Grila's shapeshifting sons. Yeah, yeah. You're like, your foster parents are dead. House wolf. So in the globe, the snow globes, that is, Evans tells Dylan that look, we're not here because of anything that Dylan you did. I'm sorry, I've been a bad father and their hearts figuratively grow three sizes, shattering them out of their globes where they reunite with the Rock and Lucy Lou who have snuck back into the pole.

and they realize that Kieran and Shipka Grila needs Santa to power the sleigh so she can deliver her evil presence so they can't let the sleigh take off and there's a chase and a fight and they free Santa but the Grila takes her giant troll form It's pretty cool I like it

They have no hope of fighting her until Crampus arrives having had his predictable change of heart Do you think Kiran Shipka mocapped all that? I don't know Oh, actually, that's a good question. I don't think so. That thing had a lot of arms.

I don't know what you'd gain necessarily. I mean, she might have a lot of arms. We don't know. Yeah, we know. It's true. It's true. It's true. It's true.

It's true. It's true. Yeah, I heard that about Mad Men that that's what made it such an expensive show to produce. They're just cutting out all the extra arms. Yeah. They considered putting them back in for totally killer, but still they didn't think it worked. Yeah. Wow.

There's a cut where she has that. and cold. Totally killer. Oh, okay. Anyway, more CGA fighting. Greala grabs the rock to kill him, but an awaken to Santa, yells his magic reindeer word, and the rock slips from her grasp, and she's butted by those hyperdrive antlers into the sleigh of snow globes. She gets trapped her inside. They trap her inside. And there's some brief, unsinimental making up between Santa and Crampus,

and now we've got to deliver presents. It's Christmas time. Evans and his kid get to ride on the sleigh watching Santa deliver billions of gifts at warp speed. There's a lot of Pimp particle growing and shrinking.

Do they text his mom why he's missing? There's a call where, like, Dylan's like, you won't believe where I am. And, you know, with no context for the mom, I assume she doesn't believe where he is. Yeah, it's true.

You're like, what is your jerk, dad, have you doing now? Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's one of your dad's con men friends dressed up as soon. Santa can't believe that, Jack. There's one moment I like in the present deliveries where Santa steps on a bulb accidentally and an elf swoops down to replace it to erase any evidence of him ever being there.

I thought it was a good bit when he was taking him cookies off plates and there's a shot of him taking a macaron off a plate and then putting it back. Yeah, because earlier in the movie, it was established that he doesn't like macaroons. Yeah. And Santa, I'll eat all of your macaroons. I love those things.

You heard it here, folks. Mail Dan, macaroons. Mail Dan, all the coconut macaroons that you left there. As the sun rises, the rocks he's father and son reconnecting and the music rises to and he says to Santa, He says, I almost lost it.

And Santa says, it's easy to lose it. The important thing is to keep trying, which, given the state of the world, I found more moving than the film deserved. Yeah, yeah. That's the plot of the movie losing it, right? Yeah, that's what it is. Well, this is because he looks over

and he sees Chris Evans and morphed into his child version, right? Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yep. Anyway, they all have... Which means really Dylan should not be there. Because, like, if we've morphed back to dad as a child, And, like, Dylan should really not exist yet.

He should exist only as an idea. I think he sees people as children, not his eyes are time-turners. It's not time travel. I hear you. I hear you. Your way's good, too, I guess. Yeah, no, I mean, both work. Yeah.

Well, they have a moment of pride over saving Christmas, and we get Santa Claus is coming to town, blaring over the credits. And that's the tale of Redwood. Amazon made a point of telling me that that was, Mariah Carey singing. Were there any bloops or any post-credits things? Because I turned it off immediately. No post-credit stuff.

Okay, okay. Sorry, I was distracted because Barbara Crampton sent in the line that she recorded for Fly Scraper. Oh, that's a me. And she said, here you go. Hugs and kisses. Oh, man, she's the best. Yeah, I thought about you, Stuart.

We did a whole Pop Culture Happy Hour episode about post-credit sequences. And I thought about you, the guy who never sees them. Yeah, those words don't make any sense to me. Post-credit sequence, that doesn't make any sense. Yeah. The story is over at the credits. I took the anti. Listen, I was the lady who left too early at sinners.

Jesus, no. You're the second person I talked to and did that. Yeah. Because that one actually, like, raises the movie up significantly. I know. That's the death by temptation moment. I had totally loved it. And but I, you know, I was at a press screening and I was trying to get to my car.

I was like, okay. You're like, that's a credit. Movies over. I know who won. I know, dude. I never do that. I usually stay and I didn't stay. And then like it took forever for like my buddy that I was meeting after to get out of

there. And he was like, did you see the part where blah, blah, blah. And I was like, no. You're like, I did not want to risk seeing the name of a single grip. So I was the you in that situation. Wow. I'm so sorry. You with many other, many other movies. But no, I don't think this one didn't have any as far as I know.

Well, let us do our final judgments on Red One, whether this is a good, bad movie, a bad, bad movie, or a movie we kind of liked. So I scoffed at the idea of Red One when you said you had enjoyed it when we talked last. I have to say I'm not I'm still going to come down on on bad bad because it is such a cavalcade of cliches that on just on like a story screenplay level I can't see my way clear to enjoying it but I will say for a bad bad I liked it a lot more than I thought I was going to it was a lot more watchable than I assumed I think that between, again, Jake Kasten is a reliable sort of, like, working director, Chris Evans in particular I enjoyed, but the whole cast is doing a pretty good job. Even I'm getting tired of this type of thing for The Rock, but this is less annoying than this type of thing for the Rock usually is. So, like, it's, I will give it my highest possible recommendation, which is marginal.

I like it better than I thought I would. Even bad bad is still a scale. It's still a scale. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I would say I'm going to kind of be with you. I'm going to say this is a soft bad bad for me. I'm just not, I'm like so tired of the magical thing is real actually and here's all the rules. I find it takes a lot of joy out of life and the movie.

But I think that the two leads are very winning. As long as Dwayne the Rock Johnson is not running for office. I still think he is a very fine, passable movie star action hero guy. Chris Evans, he's great. You know, it's fine. I wish there was more, I guess, women in this movie, but there's a couple of women in it, but they don't really get to do anything.

And, yeah, like the, yeah, it's not my bag, but I'm not too mad at it. I feel like you guys feel an obligation to let me down easy that I assure you it is not. I am by far in the minority about this movie and saying that it is a movie that I kind of like. I think the reason it worked on me is that throughout, I think almost the entire movie, Chris Evans thinks he's in a comedy and the rock thinks he's in the North Pole has fallen Slash Taken 4 slash something incredibly serious.

Yes. And I think the fact that he, I think even for him, I think he he leans into the silliness part and the kind of up eyebrow thing less than he does in most movies and stays very, very severe. As does like Lucy Lou and, you know. And I think the fact that most of those people play it like super, super, super straight is what made it funny to me. I can't really, like, I can't really make a good argument on its behalf other than Chris Evans hot dirtbag. But watching it again, I was like, I'm probably not going to

like this, watching it, like, outside the context of, you know, really needing to be entertained at that particular moment and, like, having this weird 40x experience where I was just so happy every time they stopped shaking my chair that I think it gave me a rush of, like, affection for the movie every time they stopped beating the hell out of me while I was in my seat. But honestly watching at home, I still liked it. I still liked it. I still liked it even as a summer movie. So what can I say?

It is what it is. I am that girl. Yeah. And I look, maybe I was... She said you don't have to let her down easy. No, no, maybe my language was gentle, but I actually, yeah, it is marginal for me. Like I came so close to being something. I was like, I kind of like this, but...

That's right. To me, it's a good one to watch for me in the future. If I watch it at Christmas, I will watch it with, like, a lot of, like, fast forward button because I really did mean it when I said, like, to me, I like Karen and Chipka, but most of the, like, actual bad-y stuff is very, like, blah, blah, blah, I don't care. Just tell me what they're fighting over and get me back to the buddy movie. How do you think this one compares to some of the other, like, Christmas kind of actiony movies, like something like Ernest Saves Christmas?

What was the violent night or the holdovers? It's emotional violence that is in the holdovers. It's definitely not up there, I think, with like the best Christmas action movies. But it's also not down there with the Christmas movies that make me hate Christmas. Such as. Oh. Come on. You got to spill the tea.

You got to name name. I can't, and now, of course, I'm completely blanking, like, probably... How do you feel about, like, the Hallmark Christmas movies? Love them. Okay. Love them. If you're going to talk trash, I was going to tell Alonzo to turn off the podcast. No, no, no.

The interesting thing is, like, those have markedly improved in the last few years. Yeah. I think they had some executive shuffling maybe, and I'm not sure if that's going to continue. But those that actually, like, they're much more endearingly written than, than I think people who only watched them like 10 years ago would necessarily be aware of. They write some pretty cute ones. I love those. I would imagine the writer pool has grown for that, like the people who want to write those movies.

I think that's right. I actually know somebody who I knew from like an old job who writes for them, who's a good writer and writes like good, cute movies. And I'm always so excited when he has like a movie that's running. So yeah, I mean, I thought you were going to say, where does this fit? on the scale of these, like, cheapo streaming blockbusters. And I think on that, I think on that scale, this is, like, probably top half of those. Yeah, yeah, that's fair.

But like I said, I have, like, a weird soft spot for these. I don't know why. It's one of my most inexplicable. It helps that it's not dreary. I think some of them end up being, like, weirdly dreary. Like, I feel like the gray man was too dreary for me. I get that. And one of my friends who saw this said that she wished it had been, like, more colorful,

that the color palette is very, like, even the Santa suit is like a red leather that's kind of a, it's a sort of a dark red, like, almost a maroon. She wanted like a more Christmassy, like red look. Yeah, but they're not trying to go for that. They're trying to go for like serious, cool, like, leather guy. It's like TV. Exactly. So tired of that digital dreariness. I was thinking the same thing.

Yeah, I get that. I like the polar bear. Hey, it's John Moe from Depression Mode. Every week on our show, we have honest, humane conversations with artists, entertainers, and experts about what it's like to live with an interesting mind. I just interviewed Gavin Rossdale from the band Bush. You might be wondering, what would a successful, handsome, popular musician know about mental health? turns out lots. All the time we're like, we're forced into happy situations, sad situations, challenging situations, happy, sad, challenging.

And it just never ends. And why should it? You know, we're just the sum of all these journeys. Check out Depression Mode with John Moe every Monday at maximum fun.org or wherever you get your podcasts. Have you been looking for a new podcast all about nerdy pop culture? Well, I have just the thing for you. Secret Histories of Nerd Mysteries. Secret Histories of Nerd Mysteries is a weekly pop culture history podcast hosted by me, host Austin. And me, host Brenda. We've already tackled mysteries such as what happened to the puppets from Rudolph the Red Nose Reindeer, a Snoopy Mexican, and why do people hate Barney so much? From theme parks to cartoons to 80s, 90s, and 2000s nostalgia, we tackle it all.

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Now back to the show. Well, let's move on to letters from listeners. If you're a listener, maybe this is your letter. Who knows? Is your name Ben last name withheld? Well, let's see if this is your letter. As I write this, I'm listening to the Venom Last Dance episode. I have neither read Venom nor seen any of the movies or even the Ramey Spider-Man 3.

This means that when I listen to or passively ingest venom-related trivia, I am deeply confused about how he is represented on screen. He can be worn like clothes, but he's also Eddie Brock's internal monologue. Eddie Brock can transform into him But also Venom can hold on to Eddie Brock Are Venom or Eddie Brock Or both of them biting people's heads off He slash it can dance Just some of the challenges

I face in movie nerd podcast land I mean yeah the thing is like all of that is accurate And like having seen it I'm like yeah of course When you lay it out like that It seems crazy Have any of you guys been so completely lost by the description of a movie that you had to see it to understand how it worked on screen.

Thanks for the great memories and for being such great companions to my growing older. Long may you endure. Peace, Ben last name withheld. This is such an interesting question I wanted to pose it even though I don't know if I can think of a good example. I'm sure there's stuff where I'm like, wait, what? I will say like my immediate question.

connection to this question is also about listening to episodes of this show, where I haven't seen the movie, whether it's like a new episode, old episode. Some of it is, like, some of the, with the kind of catalog episodes are things that I've never even heard of. And I'm like, I never even heard of this. Never saw it. Never heard of it. I have no idea. And sometimes there have been things where I'm like, okay, I'm going to sneak in and like see what this actually looks like. Like, what does this? I remember, oh gosh, I can't, I'm trying to remember what it was. I don't think it was when you did food fight it was one of the animated ones the description of the animation was so evocative that i was like i have to actually go see what this animation was like

yeah so i think like i think it can come up anytime you're hearing people discuss something that like no matter how like specific the visual description is you just really feel like you want a reference so it's not uncommon for me to go in and like you know look up something but i think other than that, I usually now am so like overexposed to imagery from movies and stuff like that that I usually have at least some reference

point if it's something new and something relatively popular. Like, I don't care about Venom either. But I sort of knew some stuff about Venom just like by osmosis. There is, it's not exactly this where it's not like I can't get my head around it, but I was

thinking that like sometimes I read criticism. I read reviews. And either because they don't want to reveal something or because the movie's tone is hard to describe, I'm like, I'm not sure what this movie is. Like, I need to see it to understand. And one of the things that I had that experience with is the movie, a good one, which is a very simple story about a girl going on a camping trick with her dead and her dead's friend, but the way, like, criticism around it went, I'm like, I don't understand. Is this like, is this a thriller?

Is this a drama? Like what, like, I was trying to fit it into a box. And having seen it, like, I understand what it is. And like, I don't think it needs to fit into any kind of box necessarily. But like, I don't, I kind of also get why. It's hard to write about because it's so much about tone and small things that you have to see it to understand. Well, and the other thing that sometimes happens for me when I'm talking about movies is that depending on how much distance there is from the movie, this is more of an issue with new things, that sometimes you really do want to talk about the essence of something in a way that people would consider to be spoiling it. And so sometimes you're talking around things in the movie so much that.

it's really difficult to convey how the thing actually looks because you can't talk very specifically about anything. And so that can be, I think, a reason why sometimes people feel like the thing is just not, they can't get their arms around what in the hell you're talking about. You're trying not to say what happens in it. And like, so I think, you know, that can come up to. I had this experience talking to Stewart just recently because I mostly enjoy Mike Flanagan and Stewart's more of a doubter, but I saw Life of Chuck and I was like trying to be like, no, I enjoyed it. And I was trying to explain it in a way that makes me interested but not reveal what the whole deal is.

I think I ran into that exact thing with that exact movie when I wrote, I wrote a review of that movie and I had exactly the same experience. It's really hard to describe. But you don't want to sound like you're being like, oh, I can't even describe it to you. It's so like, you know, it's not that. it's like trying to actually explain how that movie is structured is you feel like you're giving away something that maybe the person has the right to experience in that right because that's always my mindset about spoilers is like am I taking away an experience that the person has a right

to have right yeah yeah and and with life of chuck it's like yeah anyway I mean that I still haven't seen me essentially like not that complex a story but but everything that makes it work you know you can't tell someone it doesn't feel right to yeah it doesn't feel right to lay it out you know quite the quite the way you would feel like you need to yeah i mean i can't i i i feel like there's got to be an answer but uh but for me it's just like i guess it's like all the movies uh it's all the movies uh that christina shows at the uh ridiculous sublime screenings at the nighthawk where every time i'll read the description i'm like okay well Well, I'm in. Sign me up. I'll see what kind of madness I'm in for.

I trust our friend's taste when it comes to weird silliness, but we've got to see it. And it can happen the other way around, too. There are times when I see something. And then I think, I'm not going to really feel like I have had a complete experience until I hear other people to explain this. That's how I felt. You guys did not do Wolfman, right? The Wolfman with Christopher Abbott. No. The Lee Wanal Wolfman. Christopher Abbott's in that? The one that was...

With Julia Garner. Yeah. I had high hopes for that because I liked Invisible Man so much. And then... Exact same. And then it is not good. It is not good.

And the way that they transform him into Wolfman is very strange. And I was... When I got out of that, I was like, I really want to read a bunch of reviews of like whether I am completely off about how weird I thought this was. Anyway.

Good question. Ben, last name withheld. The next letter is from Searsha last name withheld Who writes Recently someone on blue sky Brought up how strange it was That a best picture winner like Forrest Gump spawned a successful chain restaurant

That was actually comparatively kind of fine Peaches I can't make any judgment calls on this Yeah I've never been Peaches in a world where I'm more of a what Dick's Crab Shack or whatever That's the guy Is that a...

I don't remember. Chain? Probably. Okay. I don't know that one. Dan's more of a tilted kilt kind of guy. In a world where Oscar nominees had theme restaurants, what would be your go-to order? The Conclave Clam Linguini?

The Happy Hour, Mank Frank. The zookeeper $3 bucket of oranges? Thanks for all the laughs and the Boko, Sircia. Yeah, the Lidia Tar, Serfantirf. Serfantar. Serpent tar. Your Lord. That's great.

The conclave clam linguine is pretty good, but it has to come with a little vape on the side. Mm-hmm, mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah, I think, you know, I mean, first of all, I just want to say, don't kid a kid or Sersia. You wanted to just, you just wanted to show us how many good ones you had come up with. I agree you did. I agree you did. I absolutely all hail you.

Yeah, I think that it would probably be something like, I think I would have to work backwards from like what the movie is that I would want to have like the theme restaurant of a particular movie. But the problem with that is that Best Picture nominees are often so grim. Like what do I want to do, eat it like the Oppenheimer restaurant? It's not going to be Japanese food. That doesn't sound fun. We're eating at the parasite restaurant. I don't, that doesn't sound good. That's pretty awesome, actually.

You have to eat under the table. Maybe La La Land Lobster. Oh, yeah. You know, you'd have to pick like a relatively upbeat movie. Otherwise, you just end up in a really strange place very quickly. How about Sean Baker's An Orange Julius? It's a Russian restaurant or are you. It's true. That's true.

It's basically just Tatiana's out in Brighton Beach, which is great. You should go. Yeah. You're getting a kickback for that? I wish. I wish I could get a table because I see every time I go there, there's always like a bunch of like older guys. It's middle of the afternoon. It's summer. And there's always a couple older guys there smoking and drinking so much beer and vodka and like eating the, you know, the heaviest food. so jealous of how sweaty they are. It's the life. Let's do recommendations, movies that we saw that maybe we can recommend

with a fuller throat than... I see Dan's finger hovering around beneath the Valley of the Ultra Vixen, which I think you already recommended, right? No, I didn't even mention it. I don't think... Yeah, I saw that it was a 35-millimeter screening of what they claimed was the only extant copy

of Beneath the Valley of the Ultra Vixen that was at... Streaming is just killing cinema. Yeah. No, I was... In passing, because it will not require my support, I'd like to mention that the most recent Superman had a similar message of, like, hey, we can all make choices every day to be nicer.

And it's a better movie overall than Red One. I will allow that. Yeah. I enjoyed it very. much but I don't think it needs my voice thrown behind it so I'll say I finally caught up with a movie that I kept seeing trailers for right before COVID and I was like oh you know I'll go see that that looks fun and I saw this trailer so many times and then COVID it and I never caught back up with it until just recently it's extraordinary um it's a sort of a low key

super natural comedy starring Maeve Higgins. And some... Will Forte. Claudio Dorje, who's always great. Always so great. Bring back, what, killing it?

Yeah. It's almost like so gentle and low-key that like watching it not in the theater, watching it at home, like some of it you know, almost passed right through me like a ghost. but it's sweet and funny and creative and it's nice to see like a little small supernatural comedy so I would say go ahead and check it out, Stuart. Yeah, the movie I'm going to recommend,

I think by the time this release certainly came and went from theaters and it hit the exact spot that I think Linda was talking about when you were talking about seeing Red One and that is Megan 2.0, which is a very silly, more of an action movie than the first one. The first movie is kind of a horror comedy, and this is more of an action comedy. But it also reminded me of 90s action thrillers,

like species and shit like that. I think it's still very funny, and I think it's weird, and it gets some good performances. And the action sequences, I think, are actually pretty well done. And I do like that even though, at this point, Megan is almost entirely a digital character as opposed to, like, a practical one. I like that they still kept, like, the uncanny valley element

where she still looks weird. Like, she still, there's something off about the way she looks. Like, they didn't try to make her look real. Yeah, I'm with you on, like, I feel like we're a small club of people who liked the Megan sequel. I mean, what were people looking for in a Megan sequel? I think they wanted more of the same, and I like that this swerved and was sillier and stranger, but like... But I feel like the tone is so similar that it's...

Yeah. Maybe not to defend a movie, but, you know... No, of course not. One would never. I... After what it did? After what it did. So I, if you're looking for a recent movie, I would have gone with a...

drop with Megan Fahey where she's a good one in a restaurant enjoyed that one very much but still can't get over the fact that guy showed up for a date with a single mom they've been talking for months they go to a nice restaurant and he is dressed like shit he is dressed however like a like a chris evans style dirt bag but not as like a like a b tier josh hartnett dirt bag that's a that that is a really fun movie i liked it i liked it a ton but then when i was preparing for a recent NPR conversation that I was part of. I watched a bunch of journalism movies. And so I watched, you know, I rewatched all the president's men and, you know, a bunch

that I've seen before. I watched The Insider, so on and so on. And I really, really, I had never sat down and watched Shattered Glass all the way through. Oh, yeah. Which I thought was really good. And if you don't know this story, Stephen Glass was a writer at the New Republic and got caught essentially fabricating in whole or in part a whole bunch of magazine pieces that he had written. And I like a lot of things about this movie, one of which is this really tremendous cast that it has.

And you go back and you're like, holy shit, there's so many people are in this. It's like, you know, those two women who don't get to do a whole lot, but they're in it. Like, that's Chloe Seveny and Melanie Linsky. Yeah. And Hank Azaria is his boss at one point. But the thing I love about this movie, the thing that I responded to the most was Peter Sarsgaard playing his editor who goes through the most amazing, oh shit, oh no, oh shit, transformation as he gradually figures out how bad this is. Because he comes in as the editor and mostly inherits this problem. And, like, you see it dawning on him.

Like, this isn't great. like this might not be great like oh this might be really bad and he just in the face he has been the best thing about so many things that i've seen him in he was the only thing i liked about the tv version of presumed innocent which was mostly but he's really good in it um and he's so good in this that i just i was really glad i watched it's one of those things where every once in a while npr asks me to like prepare for something and i go back and watch a bunch of catalog movies that there's no particular reason i've never watched them. I just haven't ever watched them. And this was a good opportunity to do that. So Shattered Glass, you can find it on streaming. I thought it was great. Really, really enjoyed it. And it's a

strong Hayden Christensen performance. It is a strong Hayden. I don't mean to leave out, it's got a lot of. It's funny, because his name is Glass, and Glass is made of sand. But he hates sand. Okay. It's a much better use of his vibe, though, than those

Star Wars movies. Yeah, I think that's right and I think this and little Italy well and I think this is are you saying you like this better than awake um but I think I think this is a pretty good use of of him as a somebody who is a little bit of a cipher like I don't know that this movie ever really tries to explain to you why this guy is like this yeah he just is and and does he feel bad like maybe a little but mostly it's about the problem that this creates for all these other people and how hard he tries to keep from being found out. So anyway, I was really, I was really glad that I caught up with it.

Yeah, that was a good one. Well, thank you so much, Linda, for being here and giving us an excuse to watch a movie that I did want to address on the podcast, but we kind of like missed the first time around. Is this our chance to start doing some plugs? Because I have plugs. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I was going to ask whether our guests had plugs, but maybe we'll let her end the plugs. Do you have a plug before that?

I do have a plug. Sorry, Linda. I'm jumping in the plugs. Not at all. Today I'd like to plug a, I've mentioned this before, but my wife, Charlene, is opening a studio gym in Brooklyn, New York, called Jiggle Studio. It is a body positive workout space that is going to have a variety of different classes, everything from traditional classes like step aerobics, some kickboxing, some Pilates, as well as like dance, as well as some like newer. non-traditional classes like hangover recovery and things like that we're very excited about it we tried to do a Kickstarter a little a little under a year ago and we didn't have much luck and we

had a variety of different struggles with the space but we're finally going to be opening sometime in august or september and if you would like to help support us and help push us over the finish line we are running a couple of campaigns for tank tops and t-shirts You can find it by going on the Instagram, following us on Instagram, which is Jiggle underscore Studio BK. And if you check the link in the bio, that'll link you to the campaigns. But we're very excited. And if you're in Brooklyn, get ready to move your Tukas. Get ready to jiggle.

Love it. Absolutely love it. I will just say first that it is a great time to support your local public radio and television station. That's all I'm going to say about that. They could really, really use your help. That's where I have, you know, made a bunch of my career. But on more cheerful note, my most recent book, which came out in February, is called Back After This. It is about podcasting, in part. And I rolled up a lot of what I have learned from my long career in this kind of form. and it is like part rom-com and part like about influencers and part about podcasts and part about

every terrible meeting I've ever been in at any media company. And so again, it is called back after this. You can find it anywhere that you buy books. Co-sign. It's a fun read. Oh, thank you. And also I read the audiobook. So if that is your preference, you can hear me read it to you.

And well, thank you for. being here and while we're thanking people i'd like to thank our network maximum fun if you go to maximum fun.org you can find a lot of other great podcasts um you know we're lister supported so uh we rely on people like you and so why don't why don't check some of those other things out um and thank you to Alex Smith he is our producer he goes by the name howell doughty uh he is also a talented musician He does Twitch streams, look him up on the internet. If you like us, I bet you'll like his stuff as well. But that's it for this episode.

So for the Flop House, I've been Dan McCoy. I've been Stuart Wellington. And I've been Elliot Kalin. Bye. Bye. We're going to make it fun, Dan. You're going to fix your day. We're going to fix your day, Dan.

I hope so. Are you having a bad day? Did I show up late? No, no, no. You didn't do anything. I just woke up a little sad. Wrong side of the bed? The whole, everything.

Everything is sad. You got to grasp on to your joy, Dan's very important. Dan's just mad that they are not going to release the Epstein files. Yeah. Aren't we all? I mean, he voted so that he would see what has. what happened with the Epstein files. Right. Right. Of course.

I think it is absolutely kind of amazing that, like, maybe this is the thing that actually makes a dint? We'll see. At the most traction anything's had. At long last, the thing that everyone could have assumed was true before. Anyway. It's not our problem for the next little while here. It's not our problem.

None of this is our problem. Our only problem is red one. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It's a red problem. Okay, here we go. Granted Grimlin committed suicide behind. Maximum Fun. A worker-owned network. Of artists-owned shows. Supported directly by you.