The Flop House - FH Mini 103 - Siskel & Ebert, with Matt Singer

Episode Date: May 18, 2024

We finally got our pal Matt Singer, author of the wonderful book Opposable Thumbs: How Siskel & Ebert Changed Movies Forever, on the show to talk about the team who defined movie criticism for a generation. Also Dan leads a silly Siskel & Ebert related half-game.Catch us LIVE in Boston!Get 20% Off and Free Shipping with the code FLOP at Manscaped.com.

Hey there, floppers. This is Elliott speaking. Before we begin this week's, let's be nice and call it nonsense. I just wanted to make sure you knew about the live show stuff we have coming up, in case you miss it later in the episode or just can't wait to hear about it. We are still in the streaming window for the Flophouse Sinks Speed 2, our virtual online video event. Just go to stagepilot.com slash speed and you'll be able to see that whole show with exclusive footage that the in-theater audience didn be able to see that whole show with exclusive footage that the in theater audience

didn't get to see through May 19th. After May 19th, of course, it goes back to the Flophouse vault where it will never be seen again for a long time. Then on May 24th, we will be in Oxford, England as part of the St. Audio Podcast Festival. We're doing two shows in one night, 7 p.m. and 9 p.m. Two totally different shows, totally different movies,

totally different presentations, totally different questions. It'll be great. And then for something even more completely different, on July 26th, we will be in Boston in person at WBUR City Space. We don't know what movie we're doing yet, but it'll be a fun show. It's gonna be all new stuff.

You're gonna love it. So that's the Flophouse Sings Speed 2, streaming now in Oxford May 24th and in Boston July 26th. And now on with our regular nonsense. Hello and welcome to this Flophouse Mini. That's what we do every other week when we're not talking about a bad movie. We talked about kind of whatever we want to talk about. And this time-

They're not the boss of us, we can do what we want, right Dan? Yeah, unlike the regular episodes where the movies show up holding a gun and they're like, talk about me, and I'm like, I don't wanna! Honestly, if we wanted to, we could spend that time, you know, like, I don't know, ranking our favorite Ben & Jerry's flavors or something else.

Damn. But we don't. Doughboys did it. So, this sounds so much more fun. The scar giver attention must be paid to the scar giver. Well, let's introduce ourselves so we all know who that was. I'm Dan McCoy. I'm Stuart Wellington.

Yeah. I'm Elliot Kalin, the last of the regular three, but who's this joining us today? Why, it's Special Gets. The scar giver! Oh, God. No, we have a critic and author, Matt Singer, specifically here in connection with his current blockbuster number one best-selling book about

movie reviewers. Absolutely. Well, this is what, I mean, I wanted to start off saying like, okay, the book, of course, is last year's Opposable Thumbs, How Siskel and Ebert Changed Movies Forever. And honestly, I would have asked Matt to be on earlier, but he was doing Good Morning America, and I'm like, let him cool down from taking a press tour of real things before I bother him about our show. Not a real thing, man. Yeah, I guess that's true.

I do have mass and matter. But anyway, I just like, it's a great book. I wanna compliment Matt, not only because I fear that sometimes that he might be annoyed at me when I show up in his letterbox comments to argue something, but also just wanting. Notting his head vigorously. No, shaking my head vigorously.

The opposite, the exact opposite. While I may argue in the letterbox, I do not argue at all with his writing ever because Opposable Thumbs is really great. Like I tore through it and I'm sort of amazed not only by the amount of research it must have taken, but also the skill it takes to then take that research and turn it into something that's sort of breezy to read.

So thank you for writing a book that I was like, I gotta get this book, and not just because I know this guy immediately. And while Dan might argue with you on Letterbox, you're only gonna see me come out when you are reviewing what, like, Slimer flavored potato chips on your Instagram. That's true. Which I'm like, this is, I'm enraptured by this content.

In addition to being a incredibly talented writer and critic, Matt is also of course a masochist. I was going to say a horrible masochist who loves punishing myself by eating the worst movie related food. Yes. It's true.

It has to be something that at a certain point you were like, why did I make this a thing that I do? Why? Yes, regularly. As a matter of fact, last night I got a text at like 11 o'clock at night from our friend Griffin Newman who texted me and he's like, I am out on the if I hop menu. And I was like, wait a minute, what? I thought he, now I knew that there was also

a Baskin Robbins if menu. I already knew about that. So I thought he made a mistake. I was like, oh, do you mean the Baskin Robbins thing? Ah, very funny. He's like, no, there's an if one too. And he sent it to me and this thing has blue pancakes with fruity pebbles and like vanilla mousse. It's got a French toast sandwich. It has a pizza omelet, which could be one of two different things just based

on the title. I mean, it is so, so much. Just every item is so, it looks like it was made specifically to punish me for something I did and And that so yes, and that was one of those moments where I was like How did this become a thing that I do because and and I have to do it by myself now unless one of you guys want to come because Griffin who came recently and At least shared the I hop Wonka menu with me is already like there's no way I'm putting any of these things in my mouth. So I'm in real trouble.

I think Dan's health is doing pretty good these days. He should do a lot of yoga. He should do that shit with you. It's true. I've lost some weight, so maybe I should put it back on. Yeah, in the cause of if, yeah. Yeah, the most important cause. Matt, I want to thank you for putting in to focus

and into perspective. The argument in my house right now is that my kids really want to see if, and I do not want to see it. And so, but knowing that I would just be putting the movie into my eyes and ears and not actually ingesting it as food into my stomach makes it a little bit more understandable that there's a worst scenario that I could be. There's a worst form of if to literally ingest.

Now, would you rather, and I love that I'm- Lindsay Anderson's if starring Malcolm McDowell? I love the idea of like British school food. Yeah, yeah, a lot of like puddings, a lot of like boiled meats. Beans. Yeah, I can only imagine the- How do we turn the ellipsis into foods? Maybe it's a food with like three little portions.

It's a progression in like three little portions. It's like a, it's a progression in some way. Yeah. The fucking Imagineers over at IHOP are like, okay, we're gonna need the Matt Singer bump. What kind of fucked up, nasty shit can we put on here? I don't think it has anything to do with me in all sincerity, but I genuinely have been wondering, like, who are the people that work over there?

Who are, whose job, someone's job it is to be like, what kind of messed up shit can we make this time? Sounds like you got your next book. You got your next book right there. Cormac McCarthy. Yeah, the late Cormac McCarthy was like, my ideas that are too twisted for literature, I put them in the IHOP menu.

Yeah, Matt seems to be gonna write Movie Food Nation. Hold on, let me write that down somewhere. Wait a minute, this is good. So yeah, I was gonna, my idea was, I talked to you a little bit about Cisco and Evert, old interview style, like normal style, and then the second half we're gonna do kind of a game, but not really.

You'll see when we get to it. Don't oversell it. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like to undersell and not over-deliver, but deliver about where you might have expected originally, you know, so it still seems like a game. But after the under-selling, it seems like over-delivering because our standards have been set so low.

My secret. Okay, so I think a lot of fans have like, a lot of movie people have a particular fondness for Roger Ebert specifically, because I think he wrote with like a lot of personality and personal liveliness, and his writing was sort of better preserved, and of course he outlived Gene, so he had more.

So first off, make the case for Gene. Make the case for Gene. Because I feel like, no, I feel like, you know, Roger is more remembered. I don't think that's a outrageous statement at all. I think you're absolutely right about that. And it's something I kind of thought about when I was doing the book.

I mean, I think this is one thing that I really appreciated about Gene that I... If I knew it as a kid, it certainly... I kind of... Doing the research and revisiting all the episodes, watching all this stuff, it definitely kind of made me appreciate it anew, which is that he was absolutely, in any other profession, he would have been described as honest to a fault. In this profession, perhaps it would be honest to a plus, to a benefit, and he was absolutely

fearless about saying anything he believed in any scenario, in any context context and to anyone. You know like he wouldn't just say honestly sometimes very mean things on Siskel and Ebert and then he would go on the Tonight Show and schmooze with the guests. He would say these things on Siskel and Ebert where you know it was

just him and Roger and the crew and then he would go on the Tonight Show and then say it to the faces of the people he was talking about. He would just be absolutely transparent about the fact that he didn't like something or flip side, maybe he liked it. But you know, there's the very famous viral clip of Siskel and Ebert on the Tonight Show with Chevy Chase where Chevy Chase is there to promote three amigos and Carson asks both of them like, you know, I don't want to do a Johnny Carson impression.

Do it. Do it. Do it. Do it. Do it. Do it. Do it. Do it.

Do it. Do it. Do it. Do it. Do it. Do it. Do it. Do it.

Do it. Do it. Do it. Do it. Do it. Jimmy Carson, that's right. So he asks, like, what's the worst Christmas movie? And I think it's Roger who goes first and is like, I can't in any good conscience recommend Three Amigos. And Chevy Chase, it's the Tide Show, the old school tonight show where the guests just hang out on the couch all night. So Chevy is sitting right there next to him. And he kind of like, kind of smiles and everyone,

the audience goes, ooh, and it keeps going like the whole segment becomes this sort of bears that night every every Friday Johnny Carson's audience would be bears it's the thing they called it they called it barely an audience Fridays yes yes I should have mentioned that you're right that's an important context that I left out but you know it becomes this kind of dance between them where Chevy's not trying to get too upset he's kind of playing with along with them, but they're being honest that they think his movie sucks and That was not an isolated incident. They would they would both do it

But really gene I think of as the guy who was he you know like Roger liked having friends with filmmakers Yeah, he would be honest, but he would go to film festivals he would schmooze he would have Jean would always say and I really believe it he had like no interest in socializing with filmmakers hanging out in Hollywood he didn't have a lot of filmmaker friends as far as I know and as people told me when I you know did my research and stuff he really didn't care so he didn't really spare their feelings. And again, in another, like, you know, like maybe in another world, that's

not such a great thing, but as a critic, I really respect that about him because. You know, he was never tempering his feelings to make a publicist happy, make a filmmaker happy, make anybody happy. He was just going to say, uh, what he honestly thought. And I think there there's a value in that, at least as a film critic. Yeah. Well, I mean, that actually plays into something else I had in my notes about how they could get

kind of hilariously mean at times. Like Roger's famous, I hated, hated, hated this movie, I hated it, I hated every, you know, like, of North. And I was wondering about sort of that pull no punches criticism. Like I feel like you see it amongst assholes on the internet, I mean, perhaps sometimes us even. Yeah, we're assholes on the internet, yeah.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I feel like it's less common amongst major. Normally you gotta pay to see assholes on the internet. Ha ha ha ha. Ha ha ha ha. Jesus Christ. I'm not a major. I'm normally out of pictures of you assholes on the internet. Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha. Ha ha ha. Jesus Christ.

No, I just like, I feel like it's less common. I mean, like, there's fewer big critics these days, so maybe that's just part of it, but like I feel like they had enough clout that they didn't have to worry about access as much maybe, and that's, I don't know, do you think there's anything in that or? Well, I mean, you're not wrong. I mean, they did get to a certain point

where they were quite powerful. I mean, there was a, in the early days of Entertainment Weekly, they did a, I think they called it the power list or the Hollywood list, something like that, where they ranked the most powerful people in Hollywood and they put Cisco and Ebert at number 10, which put them below the head of Disney, the company they were syndicated by at the time, Michael Eisner, but it put them above Jeffrey Katzenberg, who was sort of the executive

overseeing the part of the company that they worked for, which is sort of surreal. And it does speak to the degree to which they were seen as these kingmakers at the time. And there are examples of studios getting angry at them for mean reviews and for doing exactly what we're talking about. There's a famous story of them being on, I think it was Regis and Kathie Lee,

and they were there promoting an Oscar special or something. And of course, because they're film critics and they're on a talk show, the hosts are asking them like, is this movie good? Is that movie good? And they started going off on, I want to say it was nuns on the run. Just mercilessly making fun of the movie. And you know, like they're trying to be entertaining, which they often really were very good entertaining talk show guests.

And the studio that was involved with that, and I want to say it's Fox, to be entertaining, which they often really were very good entertaining talk show guests. And the studio that was involved with that, and I want to say it's Fox, could be wrong. It's been a little while since I did this research. Can you check your poster of nuns on the run that I see right behind you in the room? Yes. Yes. The studio got furious that they did this and they banned them. You're banned.

You're banned from all screenings forever because they claimed that they objected not to their reviews, they were entitled to their opinions, but that they were making fun of it on an appearance that had nothing to do. They were on a talk show and they were just making jokes, cracking easy jokes or something like that. They had this whole big thing and they were completely unfazed. They said, that's fine, we'll go pay

and see the movies when we can see them. We'll write reviews if we can in time, if we can. And if we won't, we won't cover your movies and we won't review them on our show. And supposedly they privately between the two of them discussed this and like made a bet about when the band would be reversed. And Gene thought it would last one movie and Roger said, we'll be invited back before the same studio has another movie.

And he was right, the band did not last a movie, the very next movie that the Fox or whoever it was had, they were invited back to the screenings What movie the studio was like we need these guys to see this they're gonna love it Exactly, but I mean again like that just shows yes, they they definitely had the juice and this is like we're talking about the early 90s I think and that's you know in that period they definitely had the juice. And this is like, we're talking about early 90s, I think. And that's, you know, in that period, they definitely had that aura about them,

whether it was always true or not, that they could make or break a movie. There was definitely a period where they were seen in that light. So this is a bad movie podcast primarily. I'm gonna focus sort of a little. Let's not live in ourselves, but okay, sure. I mean, you think of us as sort of a culture

and what, baking podcast, maybe? Yeah, baking and general lifestyle. Educational, yeah. I've been meaning to get onto scented candles at some point in this podcast, and I just never find the time usually. You guys razz me for being into astrology, but Elliot's scented candles,

fucking multi-level marketing scheme he's been trying to pull. That's an interesting way to describe people helping people to find the best candles with the best scents. Well anyways, bad movies are our purview. I was gonna focus maybe on Siskel and Ebert and if not bad movies, movies they disliked. One thing I wanted to say is they seem to have

particular issues with certain movies. Stuff that you might categorize as a blind spot and I'm thinking most specifically about their version of a, to a lot of horror slasher movies in particular during the eighties. And yet there'd be moments like the one where like Roger Ebert gave Last House on the Left four stars. And number one, I just, you know, I was curious

as you watched so many of their reviews, like whether there are other things you're like, oh, this is like a blind spot of this person or that person. I was curious as you watched so many of the reviews, whether there are other things you're like, oh, this is like a blind spot of this person or that person. And also, what do you make of the moments where they sort of cut against the tide? Cut against their own tide or cut against the?

Their own tide, yeah. Like, do something like, give something like Last House, a rave. Right. Those moments are fun because I mean to give you an idea of like when I was when I was doing the research I tried to watch every single episode of the

show as many as I possibly could. And at the time the you know like not every single episode was available online but the vast vast majority was. So that was part of the fun of like watching every episode in order and like kind of trying to game it would be a movie would come up and sometimes I would

know what they what the review was if it was a famous movie, you know, like I knew they gave speed to cruise control two thumbs up to speak of a bad movie. You know, I knew that that Roger gave die hard thumbs down but gave speed to cruise control thumbs up like I knew stuff like that but then there down, but gave Speed 2 cruise control thumbs up. Like I knew stuff like that, but then there were times. On the same day. Yes, which was weird. So Die Hard's already a famous movie by then.

He just kept bringing it up. He just, he couldn't, he hated it, he kept piling on. So there were, but there were times where I wouldn't know and it was sort of fun to be like, well, what are they? Like, is this going to be one of those movies that surprises me? And many times there were surprises like that. In terms of like horror specifically,

yes, they definitely gave a lot of negative reviews to horror movies, mostly in like the period, the early days of the show. Like they both liked Halloween, but then it seems like so many bad Halloween knockoffs came out in the years after that, that they really grew very sick of just maybe slasher movies in general, but just like bad, you know, schlocky exploitation movies. And there's so many that they actually did, whether you agree with them or not, and you

know, I'm not, if I'm not judging anyone, if you love late 70s, early 80s, like exploitation movies and slasher movies, wonderful. But there's a really interesting episode of the show where they did a whole episode about this phenomenon. And I think if you just type Google, Siskel Ebert slasher movies or something like that, it'll probably come up, but the title is something like

Extreme Violence Against Women is like the name of the episode. And it's an interesting, you know, it's a very interesting like half hour. It's almost like a like a prototypical video essay in a way, you know, pre YouTube, because they're showing clips from the movies and making arguments about them And again, you might agree or disagree, but it's a very interesting like half hour to watch it It's a work of film criticism on television, you know to the people who dismiss always dismissed Siskel and he bread eyes Oh, it's just these two guys. They give thumbs. They've ruined film criticism They've turned it into this binary thing Like it's sort of puts the lie to that,

whether you agree with them or not. That sounds, bring up something that I hadn't really thought about enough, I think, which is that they were also reviewing at a time when if it was gonna be in the theaters, basically, they were seeing it, right? And now we live in a time where there's so many different outlets for movies

that you as a critic, you are not going to see every thing that's potential that's coming out. So one day they might be watching a big classy Hollywood movie and the next are going to be watching kind of cheap schlock. And so they were probably also, it must, if you really don't like that stuff, you're being reminded constantly of what else you could be watching at the same time. That's right, yeah. You're watching stuff that now probably wouldn't reach the level of being reviewed by a major critic in the same way, I'm guessing.

You're absolutely right. In that time period, being like the daily critic at a big newspaper like the Chicago Sun Times, the Chicago Tribune, really was to try to see as many movies that are opening in that town every week as possible and so that you know they probably were not seeing everything a lot of

weeks but they were seeing a lot of stuff and and and it's it's pretty interesting because like. If you watch those really early episodes you'll see like they're not just going to like press screenings like they'll they'll say I went to the so-and-so

theater this week and I saw this weird horror movie that you know, so and so attacks and here and it's like it's it's much more like I'm just going to the movies to see what's playing and here's what I saw. And it does have that survey

quality to it whereas you're right now, a there's so many movies coming out all the time every single week it literally would be impossible for any person to see them all and even at the you know B. there's almost no film critics at newspapers or

magazines doing that sort of approach to the job anymore. And see the man you know the newspapers that do care enough to do this kind of stuff like the New York Times A. they don't cover everything and B, they have multiple full-time critics plus

they farm out stuff to freelancers. So yeah, nobody is seeing as much as critics like Siskel Niebuhr did in that day and age. So yes, part of it might just be right. They didn't have a choice. They had to go see these horror movies and if

you're seeing two of them every week for three straight years, even if you like that kind of thing, it might just be right. They didn't have a choice. They had to go see these horror movies. And if you're seeing two of them every week for three straight years, even if you like that kind of thing, it might get a little tiresome. Yeah. Well, Dan was born too late, I think. Dan would love that lifestyle. Oh, Dan would have really been haunting

those Times Square theaters, or whatever the Times Square equivalent of in Eureka, Illinois was. Making my job to just be in a movie theater all the time, sure, I'll eat it up. You can have that job right now, Dan, if you work in a movie theater. Wait, hold on.

No, but that's the part of it, actually, the answer that I zeroed in on, like a similar thing, where, yeah, if there were that many post-Halloween Yeah, if there were that many post Halloween slasher knockoffs and you're also predisposed maybe to think that like, oh, they're too violent or whatever, but like just being tired of it, being tired of it. And I was wondering, sorry to diverge from Cisco and Libra into you, Matt, but I guess based on what you said,

maybe you don't have to see as much to make this be true, but other than superhero movies, which is sort of the easy mode answer, is there something that you're just like, maybe now in a vacuum you would like it more, but you're so sick of that type of thing that you wonder whether you're like verging into like, I just can't, I can't anymore with this.

You might like a blue pancake with fruity pebbles on it if it wasn't. Yeah, that's probably the right. Yeah, that's probably the right answer. That's what I'm sick of, yes. Poisoning myself slowly year by year. Matt, have you had to eat any promotional pop tarts for unfrosted yet?

You joke, but there were like, Did you get to eat any promotional pop tarts for unfrosted yet? You joke, but there were like, uh, uh, uh, track pops. If you've seen the film, there were like branded, uh, with Jerry Seinfeld's face. And I went to the grocery store looking for them. I was going to eat unfrosted pop tarts. I love that shit. Now I'll keep looking. I haven't found them yet.

But in terms of movies, you were going to say, what's the, is there something that you're like... No, I want to hear more about his vor content. I'm honestly kind of like Dan in the sense that I kind of, I never got to have that Siskel and Ebert experience and I kind of think I would,

I might enjoy it. Maybe not after, I mean, to have that Cisco and Ebert experience, and I kind of think I might enjoy it. Maybe not after, I mean, they did that, in the case of Gene for 25, 30 years, in the case of Roger, 40 years. And so maybe by the end of it, I could see how it could become exhausting, but I don't know. I started doing this thing recently where you

know I'm going to press screenings and most of the press screenings in New York you know the ones that I can go to because I have kids and I have to work during the day are like evenings but they're early evening and so I've started to

go to movies like make it a double feature and go afterwards to see things and I've been I've been doing it more and more now that my kids are a little older and I feel like I don't have to rush home and I'm also sleeping more so I don't feel like I'm on the verge of complete collapse all the time. And I'm really loving it. I'm enjoying going to movies.

Last week I saw the TV glow and then afterwards I went and saw Challengers. And I was like... Oh wow, that's a fun double feature. I was like Vin Diesel going, the movies. You know, like I was really... I was digging it. So, I don't know, I guess, you know, like I am fortunate that I do get to see a lot of stuff and write about a lot of stuff, but I wouldn't mind seeing more things and getting to cover more things.

It's sort of the double-edged sword of, it's never enough, you know? Like, I wouldn't mind seeing some more. Maybe not 30 slasher movies in a month, but I could stand a few more in my life, to be honest with you. You know, when I was a kid, my parents basically never took us to the movies, like to the theater.

Like, that was what I wanted to do on my birthday, because like, I was like, yeah, finally, a chance to see a movie in the theater. Barton Fink, Barton Fink. Yeah, exactly. It's like, sometimes. And sometimes I wonder whether it's like, that Harpo Marx story where he like loved

licorice black jelly beans when he was a kid, but there's only one ever in a bag. And then when he was an adult, he's like, I'm just gonna buy a fuck ton of black jelly beans and eat them till I'm sick. And yeah, anyway, this is not therapy. So are you sick yet? Have you blown yourself out like,

have you smoked entire carton of cigarettes yet? I might be approaching sick, but let's move on to another question. And that is just one thing that kind of hit me in the book is how shows like, say, The Flophouse or any other cultural discussion show would not exist without Siskel and Ebert, because they kind of, like the ones who made the format big,

the idea that you could just talk about movies and people would find entertaining. I don't know, like what do you think the down river influences? Did you think a lot about this? I know that you sort of get into it at parts of the book. I, absolutely. I mean, I do think that the whole sort of movie discussion

industrial complex is kind of, Stuart is fist bumping. It's kind of, yeah, I mean, the big, the thing that is interesting, that's different though, is that the world of movie podcasts, which I love, I used to host two different movie podcasts, and I listened to a lot of podcasts, including yours. There's a bunch that I listen to every single week.

There's others I kind of dip in and out of. You listen to ours first, right? Ours is the first thing I listen to. Always. Always. And then you listen to the episode again. I listen to the one that you guys had me on every week over and over, and then I get to the new ones because it's all about me.

But then I dabble into the other ones. No, but this is the, but I really did think about this though is like the difference though is that, and you guys are a perfect example, like you guys are friends. You enjoy talking to each other and conversing and there's a certain, to a certain extent, you guys would be doing this whether there was a podcast involved or not. You may be not at this length, maybe not this regularly, but you would be talking about movies,

you would be making jokes, you would be watching things. Like, and that's true of the, frankly, every single podcast I know of. You know, I can't think, I don't know of an example of a podcast that's been going on for any length of time. That's two people who hate each other or are intense rivals who really like,

who don't socialize, can't stand each other and have a professional relationship only. That's like that, that's the part that's different. It's like the discussion part is what kind of filtered down into podcasts. But that aspect is not as present. And that's something I find interesting is that like of all the podcasts that are out there,

there isn't one like that. Maybe that's a niche that someone or waiting for someone to fill, I don't know. And it's not like I sit listening to the Flophouse or any other podcast going, boy, I wish these people hated each other. But it is something that's an element of that original formula. Give us five more years, Matt. We'll get there.

Yeah, you'll get there. I feel conflict is a big part. Like, I feel like that's part of the appeal of the Doughboys, is there's like a little bit of conflict there. Yeah, they do sometimes have a little tension of conflict there. Yeah, they do sometimes have a there's a little tension there. Yeah, but it but it's not like a but yeah, and that's that's a that's a good example, I suppose.

But it's like I don't see the Siskel and Ebert podcasts in a real strict way. You could say well, this podcast has two people they're very intelligent critics. I'm interested in their thoughts. They have different perspectives. There's lots of examples of that.

But in terms of like, and also these people kind of can't stand each other or at least they use, that's where it started. Maybe now they go, they can kind of get along. They respect each other now. They have reached this sort of understanding or mutual respect, but it all started from, this guy pisses me off and I'm going to kind of tell him

to his face. Like that energy, I don't know of a podcast. Look kind of tell him to his face, like that energy. Yeah. I don't know of a podcast. If there's a podcast out there like that, I would be interested to hear it. Please tell me about it. Well, the fact that they were brought together, right, from the point of view of like,

these guys will argue with each other. Like these are, yeah. Yeah, they will. And that, yeah, and that the relationship kind of continued to be that way of like, being professional colleagues, rather than, you know, they wouldn't be like best man at each other's weddings or anything like that.

Right, and they weren't, they literally were not. Although Gene's daughters, I think, were the flower girls at Roger's wedding, he was, Gene was not the best man at Roger's wedding. But yes, you're absolutely right. And it's like, it's a good point to note that like, even though it was, we think of it as Siskel and Ebert,

that's the name I certainly think of, even though it wasn't always called that. Like it wasn't like Siskel and Ebert got together and said, we're gonna make a show. They were in the beginning, they were hired guns. You know, they were brought in by other people to host the show. And to some extent, maybe it was the thought

that they would argue, but I think even more than that, it was just, it was a Chicago-based show, and they were the big critics in town. And they were the ones who really kind of approached it as, like, I don't really like this guy, and I'm gonna make that a part of this, you know? Because, I mean, I genuinely believe if Roger Ebert had created the show,

Gene Siskel would not have been his cohost, his choice and vice versa. They would have found somebody else to do it with. They would not have wanted to do it with the other one. It was only because they were sort of put together and they kind of didn't have a choice, but they both sensed this is a good opportunity that they went along with it.

Instead it would have been Siskel and Shallot. Or, you Instead it would have been in Siskel and Shallot. Or, you know, whoever else was... Siskel and Whipple. Shallot and Whipple is a real... Oh my Lord. Wow. And they hate each other. If that's not a sketch, a sketch comedy sketch for an audience of one person who's named

Matt Singer. I don't know what is because that sounds great. Hello teachers and faculty. This is Janet Varney. I'm here to remind you that listening to my podcast, The JV Club with Janet Varney, is part of the curriculum for the school year. Learning about the teenage years of such guests as Alison Brie, Vicki Peterson, John Hodgman, and so many more is a valuable and enriching experience, one you have no choice but to

embrace because, yes, listening is mandatory. The JV Club with Janet Varney is available every Thursday on Maximum Fun or wherever you get your podcasts. Thank you. And remember, no running in the halls. If you need a laugh and you're on the go, try S-T-O-P-P-O-D-C-A-S-T-I. Are you trying to put the name of the podcast there?

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And that is to say that, hey, you can still, for a very short period of time, if you are listening to this, when it first came out, I believe this episode will drop on May 18th, so you still have a slim window of time. This is the last weekend. You can watch our video on demand This episode will drop on May 18th, so you still have a slim window of time. This is the last weekend. You can watch our video on demand,

Flophouse Sinks Speed 2 show. That is a beautifully shot and edited version of a live show we did in Los Angeles with a little extra behind the scenes stuff as well. You can watch it in your home at your leisure until midnight on May 19th. And if you're interested in that, go to stagepilot.com slash speed.

We also have a couple of shows in Oxford, England at the end of May, that's right, International Flophouse. I mean, I know we've been to Canada before. Fine, fine, fine. But we are going across the pond, as they say, which is a misnomer. I'm not sure that you all know this, but it's much larger than a pond. Yeah, it's true.

On May the 24th at Oxford Town Hall, we are gonna be doing two shows, one at 7 p.m. It's about the Avengers, the one with Ralph Fiennes and Uma Thurman, not the one with all your favorite Marvel heroes, and at nine we'll be talking Spice World. We're gonna stop right there. Thank you very much and discuss Spice World. If you're interested in tickets for those,

or any of the shows, the one I previously mentioned, or the one I'm about to, you can go to flophousepodcast.com slash events and look into that. Yes, there's another show to plug. It is live in Boston. It is on July 26th, so you got a lot of time, but don't delay. Why not do it while you're thinking about it?

We'll be at WBUR City Space, Movie TBD, but we had a great time at City Space before in Boston, a great show. Stuart almost killed me with a presentation about cars. Can he reach those heights again? Perhaps, we'll see. And if you're interested in any of these shows again, just go to flophousepodcast.com slash events.

But now, back to the show. We're back. Since we're a bad movie show, I wanted to spend the second. Well, we're a good show about bad movies, right guys? Yeah, yeah, yeah. You were just telling me how you needed to get out of here at a particular time. I wanted to spend the second half of the show on their dog of the week segment.

Siskel and Ebert were not above some goofy stagecraft, especially early on in the series, and they would have an actual dog, Spot the Wonder Dog, and they would highlight a movie they thought was terrible. So, and I'm- I do think they were like, it's a new show, maybe it stays about movies, maybe it becomes a show about dogs, we don't know. Who knows?

Yeah, go on, sorry. No, I mean, this is one of the fun things that, you know, like people who've only seen the later episodes might not realize. And I knew about the dog of the week, but until you really watch it, you don't. First of all, there is multiple dogs. There were to to my knowledge, there were three different dogs. They replaced dogs whenever they felt like it. There was

spot the Wonder Dog. There was Zeke the Wonder Dog and there's one other one and then when they went into that was at PBS, the original incarnation of the show. Then when they went to PBS, they were worried if they brought the dog with them, they'd get sued. So then it became the stinker of the week, and they had a skunk on the set with them. Literally, Aroma the educated skunk was sitting next to them in the balcony. And I could tell you stories about the skunk if you want. Then eventually they got sick of the skunk

because they're sitting next to a skunk for God's sakes. And they told their executive producer, we don't like the skunk, the skunks, we're done. We're better than this, aren't we essentially? Yeah. And they convinced the producer, let's get rid of the skunk. And then the producer came to them and said, boys, I got a great idea.

And they were like, well, what do you want us to do now? He's like, all right, you didn't like the skunk of the week, but what about the turkey of the week? And they said, oh, God, you want us to be in the balcony with a turkey? No, no, no, no, no a turkey vulture Yeah, something more dangerous, please exactly. So anyway, uh that was and that was the end of all the of the weeks But yes, the thing that's amazing about them is that

this On the flip side of well if you watch these old episodes, you'll see they're doing actually pretty high level criticism. If you watch the episodes where they do Dog of the Week, it's like watching the origins of Mystery Science Theater 3000. They're not doing criticism, they're just,

these movies are there to be teed up to make jokes and they're watching them on a screen and they're sitting in a theater. It actually feels a little like, like Mystery Science, or 3000. I've never asked, I would love to know if like, you know, the, the people involved in the origins of MSC 3K, if that was in the back of their minds at all. But it's something I've wondered about. I don't think we know anybody who knows Jules.

We don't know anybody who had any access. No way to find out. Yeah, we have no access to those people. They don't know those people. Not familiar with them. Don't know the show you're talking about. Yeah, but it's something I have wondered about and it is fun to go back and watch. I should ask him about that.

He always would say that he was inspired by an image in an Elton John album cover. There's an image of a silhouette of people sitting in front of a screen for the song, I've Seen That Movie Too or whatever it's called. I don't know if El how John's on that one. And he always said he was inspired by that. But I wonder.

I'll have to ask him sometime. I mean, I'm not going like, obviously they stole Siskel and Ebert. It's just- No, no. That's how I'm going to present it to him. Yeah. You should. Please do.

Yeah, so I've accused him of plagiarism. I mean, maybe I, because these are literally the two shows that so like infected my brain when I was 12 years old with Cisco and Ebert Mystery Science Theater, they were like the things I was obsessed with, that now I can't, I see one and I see the other. But I'm telling you, they're not sitting there going, hmm, yes, this is a treatise on the lost innocence of men. They're going, look at this stupid movie,

look at how silly they look. They're cracking jokes all the time and they're cutting to them in the theater looking at the movie on the screen. You go, well, that's kind of interesting. It's sort of the prehistory of that sort of thing. Just something kind of interesting. This bit is halfway to a game,

halfway just chatting about some movies. It's gonna, I'm gonna talk about a few dog of the week movies here. I'm gonna ignore the ones that they're obviously wrong about like The Brood or Miss 45. But- The Brood is fine. It's no dog of the week. It's not a dog of the week.

Compared to the level of most dogs of the week, it's not a dog of the week. Compared to the level of most dogs of the week, it's not a dog of the week. That's fair. I like the Brutal. Anyway, so I've got some titles. For each one, I'm gonna ask two questions. One, can you tell me anything about this movie? This probably will mostly be for Matt,

who will see his, whether he retained these dog of the week segments. Right. And two, do you think the public agreed with Siskel and Ebert. And for the purposes of this, if the IMDB rating average from users is below five, they agree it's a Dog of the Week. But if it's above five, it's not quite dog level.

So, first one I got here is The Island of the Fishmen from 1979. So this is the Island of the Fishmen from 1979. So this is the kind of movie that nowadays I feel like a critic would not bother to cover. This is the difference I'm talking about, yeah. Yeah, anyone know anything about Island of the Fishmen? It's a great name. It's a pretty, it's an evocative title if nothing else.

I'm looking, so I'm looking in my notes from this period. Cheating? I am full on cheating. Well, I'm curious in my notes from this period. Cheating? I am full on cheating. Well, I'm curious if there was anything notable from any of these reviews. Yeah. And this one I don't even have in my notes, so perhaps I didn't even find this episode

when I was looking and watching them. A scoop for the paperback, the updated edition. I did keep track of, you know, every episode I watched I took very copious notes of each movie know, every episode I watched, I took very copious notes of each movie, the dogs of the week, the votes on each movie, and any notable stuff that happened, I would write down. But this one isn't even in my notes.

That's how obscure this one is. Before I tell you just a little bit about it, would you say it's a dog or not a dog in the eyes of the IMDb voting public? I'm gonna, I would guess that it's a dog or not a dog in the eyes of the IMDb voting public? I'm gonna, I would guess that it is a dog. I don't know. I'm gonna say if the IMDb voting public is voting on this movie,

they are the kind of person who would like a movie called Island of the Fishmen. So I'm gonna say not a dog. Good point, good point. Between you guys, Stuart, if you wanna land, you can, but you seem. I was checking the IMDb page. Okay. Another cheater, I'm the only one playing fair.

Not a dog, just barely at 5.3. It's about a prison ship that sinks into the Caribbean and prisoners and a doctor washes shore where they discover a strange couple who invite them to stay at their house. And apparently the doctor does a little investigation, finds out what the pair is up to and why prisoners keep disappearing mysteriously.

I'm guessing it has something to do with Fishman. Yeah, I mean, put money on Fishman. Unless the doctor's name is- That's a classic Fishman scenario. The doctors could be named Dr. Fishman. Yeah, toss in a little IMDB trivia, future director, and then head of publicity and marketing for New World Pictures, Jim Wynorski,

came up with a title change and did a little additional filming so they could release this as Screamers in the US. Let's keep with the island theme. There's Frankenstein Island from 1981. Does anyone recall anything about this film? Frankenstein Island. I don't.

But now that you mentioned the other movie was Screamers, I do have that in my notes. And I can tell you, Screamers was reviewed as the dog of the week on the episode where Siskel and Ebert reviewed Raiders of the Lost Ark. Wow. They liked Raiders more than Screamers? Hard to believe. Amazing. Did they like Raiders of the Lost Ark?

They did. They did. They gave it two, two. Well, in those days it was not thumbs. The thumbs had not been invented yet, but they gave it, they gave it two yes votes in the early days of the show. Not as catchy. Everything got a yes or a no. The, uh, in the early days of the show. Not as catchy? Everything got a yes or a no. The uh... Not nearly as catchy. Frankenstein Island sounds like one of the Hotel Transylvania sequels.

Yeah, for sure it does. The one they wear they go on vacation, yeah. Yeah. I don't know anything about it, but I can tell you, I'm looking at my notes now. And it was, this was an Ebert Dog of the Week. Sometimes they would both have a different dog of the week on An episode they were both seeing so much crap. They would often each have their own Double dog day. Yeah up or down vote dog or no, but no dog

Matt I vote dog. I'm gonna be voting. I'm gonna probably be doing straight dog most of the dog. Yeah, I'm straight dog Let's make it three dog This is a dog. This has a 2.0, the lowest score of the bunch. Despite, listen to this, when a hot air balloon already crashed on a boat island. Was it Ebert who said there's no good movies with hot air balloons in them?

Yes. That was one of Ebert's, like his rules, he has that like little movie glossary that he was, you know. Which is crazy since The Wizard of Oz is maybe the greatest movie of all time. And as a hot air balloon, he's got a very- Great Muppet Caper. That's a good one with a hot air balloon.

Yeah. Anyway, the dittisons of this hot air balloon discovered Dr. Frankenstein's ancestor carrying on the family work, carrying on. You mean descendants's an ancestor? I don't know, yeah. That seems to be miswritten, whoever wrote that. Yeah, along with a race of mutants

and population of Amazons, trivia, John Carradine only appears as a floating image during the whole film. It's the same shot of him all the time, sometimes repeating dialogue, and sometimes with new dialogue. Wow. Let's race on to this movie Dirt from 1979.

Do you remember anything about Dirt? Dirt. I don't remember anything on Dirt. There's also Dirty Tricks was a different dog of the Dirt related Dog of the week. Hmm. Ah, here we go dirt This was also an Ebert dog of the week. Cisco had his own separate dog. I could tell you I don't want I don't know if that's also on your list. I don't want to spoil it. No, tell us ruin dance game What was this? Yeah dog of the week that week was named demonoid

Followed by rated R The most famous dog of the week that week was named Demonoid. That sounds pretty good. That sounds pretty good. That sounds. It feels like a title that should be followed by Rated R. I don't know, I think I would like that. He's playing at your cousin's house when his parents go to sleep. Would you call this what now in the eyes of the public, dog or not a dog? Elliot, I'm going to go to you first. Was it called Dirt?

Dirt. I'm going to say dog also on this one. I could be wrong, but I'll say dog also. Well, I like the movie Mud. And Mud. Presumably this is a prequel. Yeah, Mud's a pretty wet movie, so I guess before they went to the swamps,

see it says Dirt. Yeah, I'll say this is a dog. I'm gonna say not a dog. Wow. Matt, your iconoclasm has paid off because this has the highest score of the bunch with a 6.8. Wow.

And I'll tell you, this is apparently a documentary. Wow. The footage is from between 76 and 78 about varied types of off-road competition through the US and Baja California. There's no trivia for this, but the soundtrack lists the songs, Snow Climb, Swamp Buggy, and Jeep Ridge Runners.

Well, yeah. All right, I have some fun trivia for you. Are you ready? I'm looking at my notes now. Yeah, yeah, try to pause. This Dog of the Week appears on an extremely notable episode of not Siskel and Ebert, but to sneak previews at the time.

It is the same episode where they reviewed Gates of Heaven, which became a really big movie as a result of their review. I actually spoke to Errol Morris for my book and he credited them with this review and then they kept bringing it up on episode after episode. He literally said they gave me a career by talking about my movie Gates of Heaven. So same episode. They also, and a little more, they also reviewed Escape from New York on this episode, but that did not get two thumbs or two yeses up. One of the two men gave it a no vote. Would you care to guess? I'm now hijacking your game with my own game.

Wow, wow. Oh man, that's a treacherous game master. Siskel or Ebert, who gave Escape from New York, the immortal classic, a no vote? Ebert famously gave The Thing a bad review. So I'm going to guess that Ebert also didn't like Escape from New York. I agree. I'm gonna say Siskel.

I don't know. Yeah, Ebert, I think he had a bit of a blind spot for Carpenter, even though he liked Halloween. The correct answer, the host that gave it a no vote, is Roger Ebert. Oh. Mm-hmm. That Errol Morris, sorry, go on. It's funny to me, I feel like as Roger Ebert. Oh. That Errol Morris, sorry, go on.

It's funny to me, I feel like as Roger Ebert got older, he got softer on that type of movie. I remember near the end of his career, there was a Gamera movie and a lot of his review is about, you know, when you're young, you like movies that are well-made, like a movie like Air Force One. And then you get older and you wanna see movies

that have like, show you things you're not gonna see. And you kind of get tired of movies like Air Force One. And then you get older and you wanna see movies that have like show you things you're not gonna see and you kind of get tired of movies like Air Force One. And it's like a, I always found that to be a really memorable review where he's basically saying like, my taste has changed somewhat and I prize different things about movies than I maybe once did.

So maybe he came around to ask him from New York someday. I don't know, maybe. And that Errol Moore story just made me think, I feel like people who don't like film criticism, are people who are just like, oh, it's people wanting to ruin the fun, want to like snooty people. Or like Matt, who's a Marvel shill, right?

Yeah, like snooty people or shills, or like, yeah. There's all this kind of negativity and I feel like what we've lost in having influential film critics is people who will champion good movies and actually like move the needle on them and like help sort of the art from that. Well luckily we have Dan's letter box for that.

Thank you. I'll champion some bullshit from 1983. Dan's letterbox is like, four stars, cheeky, directed by Tinto Brass. Really gets at what it's like to have a butt. Yeah. It's truth in art. We have two more of these, let's get through them

so we can get everyone out the door. He's like, I just watched this movie, I did not like it. Here's my Let It Rocks review, three and a half stars. I mean, I like it, but God damn it, I respect it. Anyway, the next one, the Vampire's Night Orgy from 1973. Speaking of butts. It feels like night is unnecessary there. A vampire is going to do everything at night, especially in Orgy.

The day Orgy was the original one. This is the sequel. This one's not in my notes either. I wonder if it has an alternate title like Screamers did because it's not coming up. Well, we'll get into an alternate version. It's also known as Network. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I'm just gonna, you know,

in the interest of actually moving us along, I'll say this is a dog with a score of 4.8 from the public. Close. And... Not bad, that's pretty respectable. Yeah. Something about that orgy was a let down. I would say...

If it had been a daytime orgy, boring. The fact that it was a nighttime orgy, that was what really appealed to me. I feel like it's hard to get a higher score than that when your movie has the word orgy in the title. Well, I wanted to say I'm surprised, I was looking at a list of these, I'm surprised at how many horny sounding movies

ended up on Dog of the Week, knowing how horny Roger Eber was and how cheerfully open he was about that fact. Look, when he went to the, when he did his job, he took off his pervert hat and put on his report hat. You know, it was pretty cool. That's right, yes. Well, all I know about this is the IMDB plot says,

a busload of tourists stops in to visit a small European town. What they don't know is the town's completely inhabited by vampires, sounds pretty standard. But from the alternate version section, it says this film, like many Spanish films from the late 60s through the end of the Franco era, shot its racy scenes twice, once with the actor's nude,

and then again with clothes on. The covered versions mostly appeared in Spanish prints, but not always. The nude scenes would be included in the dubbed versions that were offered for sale elsewhere. This film has three scenes where the actresses are nude and these appear in an English dub print retitled Orgy of the Vampires.

So they moved Orgy, I guess, to the front of the title. Yeah, you had to really grab it. Literally emphasize the important. And on a similar note, we'll close out this whole shebang, this whole weird deal with a movie called The Kinky Coaches and the Pom-Pom Pussycats from 1981. It is amazing to me that this is a movie that they've reviewed at all.

Okay, so this I have in my notes. This one I do have in my notes. Yeah. Siskel, this was a Siskel Dog of the Week, and I actually wrote down a quote from his review. This is from Gene's Dog of the Week comments on this film. Quote, also there's very little nudity in the movie. That's disappointing. Yeah.

I mean, with that title. Yes, if you're going to see the kinky coaches and the pom-pom pussycats, I mean, look. I will say it does have, it is also known by the less intriguing title, Heartbreak High, which is wildly generic after the kinky coaches and the pom-pom pussycats. I think that's an Australian sitcom,

like a euphoria style show on Netflix right now. Yeah. Ebert's dog of the week on this episode was called the much less excitingly titled, A Hard Way to Die, rated R. I mean, I don't know, I wanna know what that hard way to die is. What if it's about like prostate cancer though?

Like it's a really sad movie about a brain tumour. It's a Mike Lee movie. On this film, I just want to note, plot wise, it's a football sex comedy, but the top three build actors are not who you would necessarily expect from a movie called The Kiki Coaches and the Pop Pop Pussycats. Laurence Olivier. And those are John Vernon, Norman Fell, and Robert Forster. So there you go. Three. Wow. I can see them playing teachers and coaches in a sex game. I guess part of it is like I'm imagining them. They play the pom pom pussy cats.

That's the thing. That's the surprise. That's the surprise. That's the twist. I am imagining them as older men, I think is part of the problem is, as I mostly knew them. But before we go.

Oh no, this was when they were young bucks. Yeah, they were just real hot humps. Chasing around pom pom pom, pussy cats. Before we go, obviously we focused a lot of bad movies, but I wanted to end on a positive note because Ciscal Ebert, as we said, championed a lot of movies. You close your book with an appendix that's really nice

where you highlight some buried treasures, 25 movies that are more forgotten these days, but got two thumbs up from Siskel and Ebert. And I wondered if you might pick, you know, just one dimension that off the top of your head that, and then, you know, people can go buy the goddamn thing if they wanna know more.

Yes, yeah, that sort of, that idea was kind of like my attempt because it is a book about film critics and, you know, like it is fun to watch them just make fun of these terrible movies and I enjoy that too. But, you know, like I also was inspired to like be a film critic by the show and it really introduced me to a lot of stuff and to the idea of film criticism as a thing in the first place. So I definitely wanted to put a little, at least film advocacy in the book. And that was what inspired, yeah, this appendix that has these 25 movies. As you said, it's all like movies that got two thumbs up or two yes votes in the early days, but they're not the gates of heavens or the do the right things or those kind of movies.

I'm thinking of like one that I should recommend because I've seen it having like revival screenings for the first time in a really long time is this movie Household Saints. I think it played the New York Film Festival last fall in like a revival screening and I've been seeing it kind of popping up in art houses in different places I think it might be playing at the Jacob Brooms Film Center this month in May I'm not sure when this podcast will come out but I'm pretty sure it's it's part of this like festival that they're doing of like restored recently restored movies and I think they're even showing

a documentary about the making of it. But for a long time this movie like it was shown and it got good reviews. Sisclinibur gave it two very enthusiastic thumbs up. And then it kind of faded away and it for a long time you couldn't find it. It might have come out on VHS maybe but it like never got released even on DVD and you had to like really track it down and it's just really, if you look up the IMDB page, it has all these great actors in it. A lot of New York actors, people from the Sopranos you might recognize are in there

and it's a movie about sort of like, it's sort of like a cross between like a 90s indie drama mixed with like a film about religion and spirituality and faith, which is something that isn't always in those movies that are a lot more like, you know, like I think of that period a lot more like Tarantino we knockoffs. More like a boondock Saints. Yeah, yeah, it's all attitude and people, you know, a lot of profanity and you know, I like a lot of those movies too, but this is something that's a little different from that period and

this was the I think probably of the 25 movies that are in there this or there's like one or two other candidates were like my favorite of all those movies. Everything that's in the appendix. I went out of my way to watch so it's all things they liked, but there's some things that they liked that I don't like, and I wasn't gonna put it in the book. It all had to be, it had to make it through my filter too. And of all those movies, this was, I thought,

like one of the biggest like blowaway surprises where I was like, wow, this is one of the best like 90s movies that I've seen. And when I wrote the book, when I did the appendix, I had no idea that it was about to be restored and now it's playing in some theaters and I hope that means within the next year or two it'll be out on some form either on streaming or on home video. So that's one that I would absolutely

recommend like Household Saints. Keep your eyes peeled if it pops up at your local art house. Yeah, does get a release on vinegar syndrome vinegar syndrome. your local art house. Yeah. It does get a release on vinegar syndrome, vinegar syndrome. Yeah. Yeah. Paging vinegar syndrome or one of those labels weird. Yeah.

We need, we need one of those. So that is, that's one. I mean, I could give you more if we have time or if you want, but that would, that's the first one that jumps out at me. Cool. I think we got to close up the balcony, but that's the first one that jumps out at me. Cool. I think we gotta close up the balcony, but. Oh, interesting. As they famously said on the show,

well, we've got to close up the balcony. And then they'd sweep up the spotlight. Yes, and then they locked the doors. And that's when the movies would come to life when no one was around. But thank you, Matt, for coming on the show and talking with us and for writing a book. I really enjoyed it and everyone listening should read.

Before we sign off, I wanna say thank you to our producer, Alex Smith. Check him out on the internet. He goes by Howl Dod Dawdy, most places there. He's got his own projects you should see. MaximumFun.org is where you go for other podcasts on our network, Maximum Fun. Check those out.

But for this Flophouse Mini, I will say goodbye. My name has been Dan McCoy. I'm Stuart Wellington. I've been Elliot Kalin and remain that same person and we've been joined by... The Scargiver! I mean, Madsinger! No, we're doing it again! Madsinger! The, comma, the Scargiver. Ha ha, sick. Maximum Fun, a worker-owned network of artist-owned shows, supported directly by you.