The Flop House - FH Mini 131 - Hostesses with the Mostesses

Episode Date: June 28, 2025

Dan confuses Elliott by combining his beloved comic books with his hated fruit pies, in a discussion of Hostess's superhero-based comics ads.Subscribe to our NEWSLETTER, “Flop Secrets!

Hey everyone and welcome to the Flophouse Mini. As you all know, if you're listening, probably, the Flophouse is a podcast where we talk about bad movies normally. But in this case, we're going to do something a little different in that it's an off week. And off weeks are when we do our Flophouse Minis. And for this mini, I wanted to combine something that Elliot loves with something that he hates and watch them fight it out in his brain.

Fried chicken and Kokomo? Close. Marvel Comics and Fruit. Ah! Because in the 70s and 80s, Hostess did a series of comic book ads for their fruit pies. And of course, these ran not just in Marvel Comics, but also in DC, Archie, Gold Key, and Harvey Comics.

And some of the ads were for non-fruit treats like Twinkies. But I'm gonna be focusing on Marvel and fruit pies. And the premise of these ads were usually that superheroes were foiling crime with the strategic deployment of fruit pies. The fruit pies would distract the villain often and they'd go, I don't want to steal these millions when I could have these delicious fruit pies. Exactly.

That makes sense. Take that Thanos. Take that Finn Fang Foom. Thanos is like, I love death, but even more I love cherry pies. Finn Fang Foom, would a fruit pie be enough to even interest that guy? Well, the thing is, Fin fang foom can only be put to sleep by a special herb. So if that's one of the ingredients in Hostess Fruit Pies,

then it would be- Yeah, he's done that, yeah. Yeah. Anyway, we're gonna look through some of these ads, and obviously, this is not just for Elliot. It's also open to Stuart, but I especially wanted Elliot's insider knowledge of comics, and I- And I'm just here to keep him honest. Yeah, you're, yeah.

And I wanted to, we're going to look through these things. I wanted to rate each of these installments on a scale of one to 10 in two categories. The first category, of course, Fidelity's of the Material. How much does this feel like a regular adventure that these heroes might have? You know, how on model is the characterization, et cetera. So this really ties into our, the Garfield movie episode just last week, which was very off model for that character.

Yeah, that's true. And the second category of course is, how well do we think the pies would work in this situation? Is this a plausible deployment of pies as weapons? So, what's the score rating? It's a one to 10 on each of these. Is 10 the best or worst? 10 is the best in this case, yeah.

Sorry, what was the question? That was a solid 10 joke, Dan. And you gave him nothing. I'm so distracted by seeing whether I understand how to Share my screen dance like I'm confused by the rules of my own game That that's working right Elliot, no, I can't see nothing you can see nothing I mean I can see your doctor Okay, well hold on. Let's see if we're gonna go back down. Yeah, my eyes the guys do nothing Oh now it's sharing and I'm seeing a very small window. Well, I'm gonna maximize it. So

dude I'm sorry that I was accurately reporting what I was seeing to you feel like there's no better podcast than hearing middle-aged dudes fiddle with technology. Here we go. So of course, this first one, I got to get move this screen sharing thing out of the way. We've got to press the play button on the top of that it might it might just show that the image and not the whole thing. At the top, go to the left, and.

Good tip. And there you go. Check that shit out. Okay, so thank you for bearing with us. This one is called the fame. Because there's no way to edit any of that. It has to be shown in real time. Impossible.

Yeah. You know, I think that part of the charm of our show is how ramshackle it is. At least. That's what we tell ourselves. Yeah, it's convenient that it means that we don't have to do as much work. Now anyway, this one's called

Thing and the Ultimate Weapon. The Thing and the Ultimate Weapon. The Thing, sorry. The The was hidden in the tea. Of course, The Thing from Fantastic Four. First Steps. Is here. In theaters soonish?

Yeah, maybe already in theaters. Some purple hooded fellow has the thing under a hydraulic press. It says it is the power to push through a planet. It will certainly keep this strange looking human in his place. He calls it an atomic hydrolo press, press which is I do approve as an unnecessary Complication of what it actually is which is a hydraulic press. Yeah, you know and Of course in the grand tradition of villains he narrates what's going on he says look his hands dig into the metal as if it were paper and

This art is by Sam Keith, right? Yeah, because the characters all have huge hands and feets phone cord Threads coming off their clothes and Wolverine is naked. Yes. Yeah, exactly thing, you know pushes this press off I mean comes at this a electro man this robot man and The robot says it is time for the ultimate weapon Torggo, I guess this is a Torggo from Manos the Hands of Fate It's Torggo the assistant to the master from Manos the Hands of Fate. Is this? Yep, Torgo the Assistant to the Master

from Manos the Hands of Fate, the man with goat legs, yeah. Here portrayed as a kind of somewhat Kirby-esque robot. Yeah. Yeah. Thing is not enjoying this. It says, sheesh, just what I need another challenge. They fight, you know, things are the things I've said. He's like, oh, fighting's boring. Here, here's some Hostess fruit pies,

apple, cherry, peach. And the robot, despite being a robot, is eating these pies and says these are very good. And the thing says, do you like the light tender crust and the real fruit filling? Everyone does, everyone including Metal Man, apparently. But not me, the Metal the metal men of course DC characters Yeah, thank you. Don't know if they like fruit pies, but this this is a generic metal man Torgeau

Yeah, so but Torgeau says you're right. This is better than fighting and This what someone's well, I guess the hooded purple guy is a different guy. He says there's two of them now Oh, no, there's always two. So there's two in the first panel. It's just hard to make them out. Yeah. Oh, okay.

Yeah, I couldn't tell that was two in the first. But he says, they're more to the strange human creature than brawn. I would only wish that we too could enjoy some hostess fruit pies. I mean, it seems like if they went into the room, they could just get some of these pies. Part of it for them is the kink

Of watching them eat pies. Yeah. Yeah, they're they're pie cucks. Yeah So, you know first off, you know my question is fidelity to this Is torgo a known fantastic four villain or is this my knowledge? This is not an original Fantastic for Four character. This is an addition. These two hooded characters who are just kind of vaguely, perhaps, alien villains. One of them has kind of a green hand, whereas they look like Orko a little bit from Masters of the Universe.

They kind of look like the tall man's henchmen that have been shrunk down when he puts them through the tuning forks. Yeah. As far as I know, Torggo is not a character that that thing has encountered before or any Marvel character before. But the name Torggo... But he's the ultimate weapon. He's the ultimate weapon. Torggo is, he looks very Ultron-ish,

and Torggo certainly is the kind of name that a lot of Marvel characters from the old timely monster days would have had. Goo-gam, that kind of stuff. I do love those like Kirby- style metal lines on his body. That's just sick. I love that. So, okay, maybe the villain's not close to the comics,

but what about the characterization of Feng here? He seems to be the Feng we know. He says, no overgrown toy is gonna keep this blue-eyed pretty boy tied down against his will. It's been established as canon. He does have blue eyes, because he's everybody's ever-loving blue-eyed thing. Ampetunia's favorite nephew. And when when Torco comes out, he goes sheesh, just when I need another challenge, that sheesh is very thing.

So yeah, he's on character. This is on brand for him. Now normally he would just keep punching the robot instead of offering the robot food. Yeah, that seems like more of the third act. Yeah, that seems like more the kind of thing what Reed Richards would come, Mr. Fantastic would come in at the end and be like, wait, my electro-spectrometer detects that this robot loves fruit pies and gives it to him, you know. But I think, you know, he's a man of the people, though,

so he would certainly share his fruit-filled pastry, rather than be selfish about it. Does he have to ingest, like, a shitload of calories, because he's the thing? You would have to assume so. He must burn so many calories just carrying the mass around. Yeah, who eats more? The thing or concrete? So do they ever talk about how much concrete eats in those stories? They must, right?

That's the kind of thing that concrete stories would totally mean. Dan, text Paul Chadwick. Yeah, Dan, you have Paul Chadwick's number, right? Yeah, okay. I mean, similar to concrete, you have to assume that all the floors in the Baxter building are reinforced because the thing weighs so much, you know, much as concrete's floors had to be reinforced, you know. Oh, yeah.

So in a... There should totally be a thing, concrete crossover. I don't know why there hasn't been. If there hasn't been, they should do it. Yeah. I'm going to call it realism, even, if there hasn't been, they should do it, yeah. I'm gonna call it realism, even though obviously there's no realism to be had, it's a superhero comic, but realism will stand in for fidelity to the source.

What's your realism score, would you say, for this one? I'm giving this, in terms of realism in the Marvel Universe, I'm giving it a 10. This is the kind of story Thing would have found himself in, in issues of two and one. The comic book where Thing would team up with a different other hero each week

or each month and often with a B-list hero having a B-list adventure with a B-list villain. But I, so I'll say in terms of fidelity, the original source, I'm giving it a 10. In terms of would this really work, I'm gonna give it a one. I think that the robot would not express interest in the fruit pie.

It's possible that if you can get it to eat it, it would gum up the internal works and break the robot. But I don't think it would be that you would convince the robot to love fruit pies rather than fighting. No, I have to agree with you. I don't think that these hooded figures, presuming they're the ones who made the robot, would have programmed the robot with taste bud technology. No, TBT.

Yeah. So, okay. Well, letT. Yeah, so, okay, well let's... Okay, number one down. Uh-oh. It's called Daredevil's Daredouble? I put the question mark in it, actually that's an exclamation point, but... Yeah, an exclamation point outside of the quotes

around Daredouble, it's quote, dare dash double, quote, exclamation point, which is an interesting way to, I guess it says Daredevil's Daredouble dash double, quote, exclamation point, which is an interesting way to, I guess it says daredevil's dare double is the whole phrase. It's an exclamation point at the end of that. Okay, I understand now. There's sort of an explanatory box in here. It says Ron Rainey, known to film buffs

as the man with 999 faces. Yikes. I like that. Has retired from the silver screen, but not from his love for disguises. And he's admiring himself in the mirror saying, yeah, I look perfect wearing this daredevil costume. I can steal anything and daredevil will take the blame.

That's actually a really good plan. Yeah, I mean. It's a great plan. Assuming he doesn't get caught in the act. As someone without daredevil's powers or fighting prowess, it's very likely that he would get caught in the act as someone without daredevil's powers or fighting prowess It's very likely that he would get caught in the act of stealing the money Yeah, and then he can't say no I didn't do it daredevil did because again He would be the one holding the money in a costume. Otherwise a great plan. Well also

I mean fortunately he has daredevils impressive physique as well Mm-hmm very muscle the guy But it seems to be working. There's you know newspapers are saying dare saying Daredevil goes on a rampage, crime wave, et cetera. There's an anchor saying that Daredevil has stolen millions in two weeks, which is very successful robbery. And so Foggy is reading the papers. Daredevil's best friend and law partner, Foggy Nelson.

Yeah, he's saying, Matt, I can't just believe this about the Daredevil. And Matt says, neither can I, Foggy. Of course, he really can't believe it. But he has a plan. He has a hunch that the fake Daredevil won't be able to resist hostess fruit pies. And Dan says that as if he's describing it. But Daredevil literally thinks to himself, I have a hunch the fake Daredevil won't be able to resist these hosts fruit pies

What's this based on? Just the quality of the pies, you know specifying that yeah Yeah, and sure enough that night Daredevil fake daredevil is stealing other stuff from the storefront Yeah, so this is the storefront legal services, which is Daredevil and Foggies at that time. Oh, they're legal company. They had a storefront law office, you know, because they want to help people stealing legal files, I guess.

He's loving it. He's laughing. It's hard to tell from the sack what's in there. But he's clearly the fact that he chose to steal something from right next to or in Daredevil, the actual Daredevil's office. Hell's Kitchen's pretty small. Yeah, it's pretty small. It's a bad stroke of luck for him. Again, if you want to steal millions,

at the time Hell's Kitchen was not the place to go. But, that's what it is. Yeah, you gotta watch the movie, How to Steal a Million. That'll tell you. That's real up to date, yeah. Daredevil says. Yeah, you gotta find that Brewster guy. Take his stuff. He wants to give it away. Yeah, daredevil says find that bruiser guy Take his stuff

He wants to get rid of it. Yeah. Yeah There he is right on time. Thanks daredevil. All right, you phony you've got the pies now taking it. Okay. Okay He was there stealing pies. Oh, yeah So he seems to be so okay if I'm understanding this correctly, I miss understood that Law Offices. So he seems to be, so okay, if I'm understanding this correctly, I'm missing this with that. Classic honey pot, guys. Daredevil seems to be putting out boxes of fruit pies and then in panel four, the fake Daredevil is stealing them.

If you put boxes of fruit pies on the street outside your office, it is no longer stealing. If someone takes them. You put a sign that says, not for stealing. But it is a trap to catch a thief. To catch him, that's true. Because that's true, he is the thief. Yeah, Chris Hansen's waiting around the corner. And in the last panel, Daredevil magnanimously says, but I'll let you finish that Hostess cherry fruit pie

before I do, before I take you in. And Ron Rainby, the man of 1999 faces, has a look of mania. He's taking the mask off as a way of acknowledging, you know what, I'm not the real Daredevil, I've been sunk, you know. Yeah, and he's enthusing real fruit filling, light, tender crust, maybe curtains for me,

but what a delicious exit. So, okay, now what do we think of the Fidelity as a realism? Realism is this. Now, I like, they've got, so this says on the side, copyright 1976, so this is pre-Frank Miller Daredevil. Daredevil was pretty goofy at that time. So I kind of, the storyline of someone pretending to be Daredevil in order to rob places,

that's a very Marvel Comics storyline. That's how Chameleon first came into the comics, who's pretending to be Spider-Man to steal things. There's all characters, Bullseye has pretended to be Daredevil, Craven's pretended to be Spider-Man. Characters are always pretending to be the heroes. And so, the uh, so, I'm gonna say, Red Skull at one point was in a cloned Captain America body, and I think he was wearing Captain America costume at one point.

So, I will say, that's good fidelity to, certainly 70s Marvel too, a hero dressing up as the bad guy in order to commit crimes. Um... The other way around, but yeah. Once, once again, it's hard for me to believe that in the 70s Marvel too, a hero dressing up as the bad guy in order to commit crimes. The other way around. Once again, it's hard for me to believe that he loves fruit pies so much that he is going to show up in costume,

in his felonious costume to take those fruit pies and then stop to eat and then be like, you got me. He's already got millions, but he doesn't have those main pies. That's true, there's no way to get those pies with millions. There's just no way. So the fact that he doesn't try to run away and continue to take the fruit pies when it just stops, maybe he just knows he can't run away from dairy.

The taste of a pie that you steal is so much better than the taste of a pie you pay for. That's why all those hobos, you know, like float in the air when they smell a pie. Yeah, they don't float into stores and then give you know, give a couple dollars They don't feel the floating a float over to an ATM Well, I mean these are on house people but we're thinking of cartoon hobos. Yeah, I'm time period. See ya. Yeah These are these are these are cartoon hobos A few top hats. Yeah, it was back in the day where ATM just stood for ass to mouth,

like Dan always tells me. Yeah. That's what he says. He calls those the good old days. But you're right, Dan, we should make clear we're not talking about real-life, unhoused people who float along pie sent to where pies are. Yeah. So I'm going to give this, again, a 10 for fidelity to the original comics,

and I'm going to give it a... I think I'm going to give it a 3. Because again, he's a human foil. It does make a little more sense that this fellow would be distracted by a box of pies. And like, as an actor, maybe he doesn't have a lot of time... In his busy career, he hadn't had time to eat pies now that he has access to them.

He's been so worried about his physique that this is a real treat for him. At the very most basic level, he needs sustenance and he also can taste things, as opposed to the robot Torgo, who neither of those things are true. We're assuming cannot, yeah. Now guys, you brought up Frank Miller before.

This one in my research is purported to have been done by Frank Miller. It's the Human Torch in... The Human Toich? The Human Toich in the Ice Master Cometh. Okay. That's a very Marvel title. They loved to do puns on or plays on kind of like Titles of things famous titles, but also cometh was a big thing for them, you know

It's always you know or low a something, you know, that was big. So I'm going to points for that. Yeah a little Little box says the city is in the middle of a deep freeze And the human toys he say yeah Is living up to his threat to put us into a new Ice Age. And we see the Ice Master, he looks kind of like, what's the Rankin-Bass character? Like a Jack Frost type? Mr. Freeze Master or whatever. Sure, I don't know.

The Cold M miser or whatever It looks like like the ice king in that there's a there's a Wizard of Oz comic where they Would they deal with an ice king and he looks like that? Yeah, and he says Shanna wears Wizard of Oz comics. They're really good Even you're not hot enough to melt my heart of ice flame interesting The Wizard of Oz comic is also about someone melting a heart of ice interesting. Okay, it's funny This has flame face specifically when the whole body is Inflamed as an insult. Yeah Spidey is often called the web head when his again he has webs over his arms as well in his feet. Yeah

The human torch says he's right. His power is not just ice. It's life-stealing cold and You know, he flies off, the ice master taunts him, saying, leaving me cold, hot shot? And he says, getting me something that will warm you from the inside out, ice master. Hostess fruit pies, which he tosses. All for me. I assume they're warm now.

Yeah, a flaming hand has been holding them, yeah. Yeah, and again, a lot of waxing poetic about these pies. The ice master says, what crust? So light and tender, and I'm warming up to the real fruit filling. Guys, real quick, was this during a period of time where people were really concerned that the crust wouldn't be light and tender enough?

I guess so. I mean, that's always the concern with pies. You want it to be very light and tender. And certainly a packaged pie with a shelf life. You know, you want it to be mushy, you know? But you know, we have the end to see the human torch flying over the no longer frozen city saying things are warming up again now that the ice master has warmed up to the goodness of Hostess fruit pies.

Underwhelming, an underwhelming adjective. Just goodness. and now that the ice master has warmed up to the goodness of hostess fruit pies. Underwhelming, an underwhelming adjective, just goodness. Well, I like how it implies that there's something helpful about them, which is not the case. I do like that the panel where the ice master is eating the pies, it is, he's like starting to melt.

Yeah. Like in that eating the pies is he's like starting to melt. Like, in that eating the pies is killing him. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah. Now, so I'm going to say this is, in this one, the human torch is being a little generic. He doesn't feel like himself. I feel like I'm not getting a lot of human torch from him. He doesn't seem like Johnny Storm. The hothead.

Yeah, exactly. Hothead, a kid, like the youngest member of the team. But I assume this is very accurate to all the other times the ice master showed up. Oh, sure. Ice master, big deal. Ice master, huge villain, huge villain. You'll see him in the new movie. Yeah. I will say, if this is Frank Miller drawing it, I kind of believe it if only because of

the panel placement. There are some vertical panels in here, and's something that Frank and a lens some very Much wider than they are tall horizontal panels and that's kind of stuff Frank Miller would be Experimenting with quite a bit. Yeah his daredevil run So I believe it the character the character art the drawings don't look too different from his earlier stuff But I'll say yeah, this one is a little bit but less Infidelity the characters I'm gonna give it more of a five, you know, they didn't give the human torch any powers He doesn't have or anything like that the ice masters a new addition to the Rogues gallery But in terms of winning over the bad guy, I'm gonna give this an eight, you know

I mean the ice master I totally believe this guy has never had a fruit pie and it would win and it would blow his mind Yeah, I would fucking rock his day It does look like this was drawn by a guy with an affection for fedora hats. And ninjas, yeah. And complicated political views. Complicated? Nah, I guess you're right.

If anything, too simplistic. Oh, look, this next one has our old friend Iron Man. He is our old friend, isn't he? Yeah, we know way back. The savior of the MCU here. Yeah, he says... Steel Jesus, they call him. Iron Man versus the bank robbers.

So just kind of... Oh, my favorite villains. Generic goods. I mean, they have dope-ass outfits for having such a generic name. Yeah. But again, Iron Man's Rogues Gallery is pretty crappy. So I totally I totally buy it Yeah, when you're when you're making your second Iron Man movie and your villain is the whiplash then you know You're not dealing with the best rogues gallery, you know

We get kind of an unnecessary explanatory panel up up at the top just saying like, you know Robbers are holding hostages at the bank. We can pretty much see that from the drawing But meanwhile outside Iron Man Cleverly is saying we need a diversion to give us time to get through the door before the bank robbers harm anybody Now they're demanding that food be sent in says like one of the SWAT Cops, they'll get no food from us. That's the hardest Yeah Negotiator, I guess it's time for me to throw some tear gas

at protesters for no reason. Yeah. Iron Man says, wait, that may be our big break. Iron Man's always thinking, you know, that's classic Iron Man. Sure, yeah. Iron Man's ironing. And wasn't he always drinking too?

He couldn't drink. Not always, not always drinking, often, but not always. Now here's the thing, Iron Man, next panel, he says send in these hostess fruit pies. I believe Iron Man eats fruit pies. It's one of the few foods that will fit through the mouth slit in his mouth. That's true.

They're slot shaped. And you know, something like Tony Stark, you know, he probably eats a Soylent, you know, he just, he doesn't care about food. He just wants something to eat stuff in his face. It's just sustenance, he's a tech guy. He sure he just know something he's stuffing his face. It's just sustenance He's a tech guy. He thinks he's gonna he's gonna evolve his body past physical needs. Yeah Yeah, he's gonna be doing crimes of the future

Plastic plastic, yeah, this is interesting. This is a new wrinkle on the fruit pies thing He says I'll listen in on their conversation with my cyber helmet receiver. So he's bugging the fruit pies. That's kind of a new wrinkle. And make me less less eager to eat a fruit pie, knowing that it might be helping Big Brother keep their tabs on me. I do love this next panel. Yeah. Well, why don't you describe it? OK, so the bank robbers have received a cart filled with fruit pies.

They are tossing their guns aside. They say, hey, hostess fruit pies, give me that cherry one. I'll take that apple. They are, the plan is working all too well. Just throwing their guns away at the mere sight of them. And having heard the guns clatter upon the ground. Yeah, Iron Man bursts. With his cyber helmet receiver.

I'm assuming through the wall. Yeah, he says, now's the time for little heavy-handed miss. Yeah, and he's These days while fruit pies scatter about yeah and and the Robbers Put their their finger on their fatal law. They say who we never should have put down our weapons Yeah, just a truer words have never been spoken ooh, we never should have put down our weapons. Which is, truer words have never been spoken.

But another one says, but who could resist the real fruit filling and the light, tender crust? Yeah, it's always the light, tender crust. Each one says a different thing, Huey, Dewy, and Louie style. So, what do you guys? And then there's a little flag that says, you get a big delight in every bite of Hostess Fruit Pies.

Yeah, now again, I'm going to jump in here. I'm going to say in terms of Iron Man characterization, I'm going to give it an 8. He is a tool. He's a total tool. He's a total. He's on the side of authority. He really he's always going to be helping the man keep down these the people who just want to rob a bank. I will say they're bank robbers. They're not good guys, but I would totally see him working with the cops where a Spider-Man would stop these bank robbers

the cops would be like, hey, you stop, we got some questions for you. And he'd be like, sorry, more fruit pies. And he'd throw them to them. But I think again, I think it is difficult to believe that they couldn't eat the fruit pies with one hand while holding their gun with the other hand. But you want one in each hand.

Yeah. But if these guys, they can't even come up with a cool name for themselves other than the bank robbers. So I'll believe it's going to happen. So I'm going to give it an eights all around. Eight for character representation and eight for this plan would work in stopping these bank robbers. Yeah.

I buy it. You buy Hostess Fruit by? I have in my life. You truly have lived, haven't you Dan? For decades. It's more of like a... I've been known to buy a fruit pie in my time. Yeah. In high school. Anthony Bourdain over here. Hello, this is Alex. Hello, this is Alex. Hello, this is Katie.

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Our old friend Daredevil's back again for another bite of that pie. Daredevil versus Johnny Punk. Now, of course, we all remember Johnny Punk. Sure. Classic Marvel villain. What do we got here? Johnny Punk is saying,

in the next set, we raise the decibels to mega pitch. The high frequency sound waves will lock their brains. They'll do whatever I command. Now that's just science guys. Johnny Punk, I'll say this, that is science, it is punk. Johnny Punk, I love this character's design. He's got a classic punk mohawk. It's not a tall one, but it's kind of,

it's like more of a Travis Bickle one, slightly taller than Travis Bickle's. From the neck down, he dresses like American Flag, the character Ruben Flag from the American Flag comics, and I love that outfit. Look, leather jacket, shoulder pads. Neck tie, which is an unusual. Dan, there are plenty of punks that wear ties.

No, it's true, I guess it's the items together. It's playing on different ideas. Exactly, exactly. He looks cool, he looks cool. And the name Johnny Punk, that's a cool name. That's super cool. Now, Daredevil is hanging from a building outside and he says to no one in particular, my hypersensitive hearing picked up Johnny Punk's little plan and it's not my idea of

crowd control. Good one. He's just snarking to no one. I do like the sign that says, you can see the marquee, it says, Tonight, Johnny Punk. Yeah, so he's already a headliner, unless he's a villain that announces where he's going to be. Very Batman.

And Daredevil, sorry, go on. I like this next panel, Daredevil goes in, and the sound guy who works for Johnny Punk goes, hey, look who's horning in. That's a good joke. Daredevil has horns. Oh, right, right, right, right. And Johnny Punk says, "'Back off or I'll blow the roof off with sound.'"

First off, using alf twice unnecessary. And then with sound, I like that. Daredevil again, he's thinking to himself, this is an internal monologue this time, "'My radar senses enough electric potential "'to do just that gotta think He has to tell himself to think how about hostess fruit pies before you turn on the Jews and Johnny punk says sure I sure dig the real fruit filling now this shows now

This is very not punk so you dig something come on. Yeah, what is that daddy? Oh apple and cherry. That's a dynamite duo Johnny punk has to give it up. He says, sharp move, Daredevil. You've got us, but we've got the goodies. It really didn't seem committed to this plan. No, well, he's saying they've kidnapped the British sketch group, the goodies, and kill them if Daredevil doesn't let them go. And Daredevil says, better a hostess fruit pie than the fruits of crime, Johnny Punk.

And he swims away saying, and thanks to hostess, I don't have to listen to his music anymore. Wow. A real James Bond dissing the Beatles moment here. I will say, I will say though, again, okay, there's a couple things in here that I think are very Daredevil and some are not. I don't buy Daredevil as a guy who listens to punk. I would believe that a guy who is a lawyer with a deeply Catholic kind of faith and sin and redemption background

is probably not keyed into the punk lifestyle or necessarily the punk sound. But when he says, so I'll give him points for that, I don't think Daredevil would listen to punk. If he was like, now to sit back for this Johnny punk show, I'd be like, no way, Narc, you don't like this. But when he says, my radar senses enough electric potential to do just that. This is, I don't think that he can do that

with his radar sense. That he can sense how much electricity is in there. It's really more of a second sight for him. So I'm gonna say it's a mixed bag for Daredevil in terms of characterization, but I feel like Johnny Punk is the character find of 1976. So. Yeah.

Yeah, I could totally see, and I could see he's a punk. He probably hasn't eaten that much lately. You know, he's gonna go live in a squat after this. I think he would end, he would stop his crime for some fruit from free food, you know. So good scores all around for this, other than maybe some deductions for the realism. Oh, the thing's back.

Oh boy, the thing. The thing has returned. This one's called The Thing in Earthly Delights. Oh, weird. So there's sex in it. And so we're inside a New York deli. Sexiest place on earth. There's a UFO outside, aliens are coming in,

and the deli owner or proprietor, he says, I've seen everything, but never, and someone says, they're after us. And helpfully, the alien explains why they're here. He says, our appetite for earthly delights will soon be satisfied. Prepare for uplift." But the thing crashes in saying, "'Not so fast, bub.

You're not taking anybody anywhere.'" And I'm not sure what the thing is doing here. He seems to be tying. He seems to be taking the energy ray that they shot the people with and using it to tie up the aliens. Yeah, this is confusing. But then the thing says, if it's early delights you want.

There's some real story problems with this ad for Hostess fruit pies. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Early delights you want for your trip. Take these Hostess fruit pies. Cherry for you, apple for your friend. No, he's got them in a big box. Yeah, yeah.

Well, he's boxed them into their tastes of fruit pies, for sure. You look like a cherry Well, he's boxed them into their tastes of fruit pies, for sure. You look like a cherry man, he says. And their countenance has changed entirely. They are nothing but smiles. Later after the thing has untied the Space Invaders and they're again, velling over these pies.

Oh, very nice, Dan. Wow, yeah. Thank you. Nice finish there. In honor of Ben Grimm there. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And the deli. Yeah. Taste the light tender crust and the real fruit filling. This must be what earthlings call delicious. Yeah. It's a real mitzvah, right? And they zip off in their ship. Yeah. Thing has knocked us over the whole thing. Yeah. Yeah. The owner says, I think that's knock us over the whole thing. Yeah. Yeah Says I always thought hostess fruit flies were out of this world now they are

So yeah again, so they were These are not scrolls they seem like kind of generic aliens They've got a little bit like they've got pointy ears and kind of bald pointy head So they look a little like scrolls. They look a little like the impossible man who was is a fantastic four character he's the from the planet pop-up but yeah they they're pretty I feel like thing is getting the short end when it comes to the bad guys he's dealing with me so they were they were totally gonna have sex with these two guys right they just say our appetite for earthly delights as they take a man in a suit and fedora and

And or maybe it's a pork pie hat and and the proprietor of a deli So, I don't know if they're gonna have sex with them if they're gonna eat them both I don't know you make a good point that does seem to be but whatever whatever unearthly unholy appetite was about to be sated Thing has done that with fruit pies. Yeah Yeah, I'm gonna give this this one low marks all around. Low marks on realism? Yeah, I think, I mean, Thing does say, you're Y-E-R instead of you're, so that's kind of like him, but he just kind of comes out of nowhere.

The plot, I don't see why the aliens give up so easily. Also, how is he tying him up with laser? Yeah, how does he, he's super strong, but he's not so strong that he can bend a laser with his fists. So yeah, this is pretty low marks. I'll give it a 2 for is this plan gonna work? Is the thing as strong as the Hulk? The thing is not as strong as the Hulk. And this is one of the enduring wonderful things about the thing is that he is not the strongest there is.

He's very strong, but he's not the strongest there is, but he never gives up. So there've been a number of stories where he fights the Hulk. He pretty much always loses, but the whole point of those stories is he can't really be defeated because he's never gonna give up. And there's a great story, a one issue story

where this character, the champion, comes down to Earth and he challenges all the strong guys to a fight. And Thing is the last one, and Thing goes like 90 rounds with this guy until he's almost on death's door and thing says you can keep you can kill me but I'm too stupid and I'm too ugly to give up I'm still gonna keep fighting you and the champion is like I won but I've so much respect for you that I'm gonna spare your planet you know like that what you showed me

today so that's the thing is not as strong as the Hulk but he's got more heart you know no that's the thing's real as strong as the Hulk but he's got more heart, you know, no, that's the thing's real superpower is heart I think we're closing in on the end. I've lost track on how many we've done and I accidentally closed the window that shows But this one for the first time we're seeing our old friend cap Captain America in fury unleashed because Nick Fury's also here Although ironically fury is not unleashed in it. He's in danger and Cap has to save him, yeah. Cap busts in through the metal door, he punches it open, he says,

the trapster's at it again. One trap leads to another. Now this is- Elliot's bouncing his seat. He's lost the trapster. Already I've got an issue with it. I mean, the trapster is a villain, but he really just uses a glue gun to get,

it's not like he comes up with different traps. The Trapster, as you know, used to be Paste Pot Pete. And he had like magic glue that was super strong, and eventually he had changed it to a glue gun. And one of the fun things about him in the comics is he'll show up and say, the Trapster's here, and they'll go, oh, hey, Paste Pot Pete. And he's like, that's not my name anymore. It's always very fun.

He just sets up different traps. How does the Trapster feel about the fact that Spider-Man invented web fluid and shit? That's basically his whole deal. But he's also a Spider-Man and a kid. I don't think he knows that Spider-Man invented that when he was a kid. But there's Oreos and there are Hydrox. You can have them both. One's more popular, but doesn't mean Hydrox is not around,

unless they've went out of business and I don't know about it. Well anyway, here, Fury explains the deal, even though we can see it in the drawing. Fury says, better not come any closer, Cap. The Trapster's goon has to be by the neck. Here's, okay, I'm gonna stop you right there. I also will point out that I love the classic buccaneer boot design of Captain America.

I wish Chris Evans had buccaneer boots. The things that I wish they would do in the movies, I wish he had buccaneer boots. I wish he had the wings actually sticking out of his head. I like at least that they're painted on. He's got those gloves that have a little bit of extra opening, like they're a little loose, you know? It's just very flowy, I love it. So this goon, I got two issues with this.

Let me just talk about it, okay? Can I finish, can I finish, Dan, before you continue on with this? Is that the idea that Trapster has goons. Trapster is a B or C lister. He's not hiring goons, he's working for somebody else. He's probably working for the wingless wizard or something like that, you know, as part of the frightful four.

But this goon, he also looks so much like Nick Fury's villain, Baron Von Strucker, all he's missing is an eye patch. And I was like, at first glance, I thought this was Baron Von Strucker. And I was like, Von Strucker is working for the Trappster? That doesn't make any sense. It should be the other way around. No, it's just a guy who looks like him.

Fury probably made the same mistake when he saw him. But it's just the idea that the Trappster is kind of hiring people to do things. Maybe in the 70s, he was doing a little better. Maybe he was riding high and he had the money to do that. But usually the Trappster is the guy who's like, working for somebody else. Well, I mean, Elliot, in this version,

he's riding so high that he can afford to not be in the middle of the action. He is watching on a monitor from a different room. He chuckles to himself, ha, we'll see how Capture America solves this dilemma. I mean, it's not really much of a dilemma or a trap. It's just like the goon has Nick Fury by the neck. But anyway Cap says my strength and my shield won't solve this mess, but strategy

I don't know why the strength and shield wouldn't solve this mess All he has to do is beat up the guy who's choking Nick Fury guys The shit the thing is is his fucking shield immediately is involved in his plans. Yeah. That's true. He says, okay, you big overgrown Goliath, I bet you can't wait to get your hands on these hostess fruit pies. And he throws the shield like a serving platter with pies on it.

I would think that that would mess up sort of the aerodynamics of it. Do you tape them to the fucking shield? They would shoot off with centrifugal force. Maybe he found the Trapster's adhesive, and his super adhesive, and he attached them that way. I don't know, maybe. But the goon is, again, he's loving it. What is Fury compared to this great taste?

Real fruit filling, light, tender crust. And Fury compliments Cap, as they run away. Hostess fruit pies, that was using your brains cap and Traps are curses fate. He says hostess fruit pies curses Captain America's as smart as he is strong So yeah, yeah, yeah Tender crust I guess sometimes he uses other traps to this one I feel like this is a, the idea that Nick Fury couldn't deal with this goon,

I think is a little out of the ordinary. I think this one, I do like that Captain America has a smile on his face in panel four, that's something I miss. The character used to smile a lot, and now he very rarely does. He's always kind of gritting his teeth in anger. But yeah, this seems like the fact that they just run away

and Trappster's like curses foiled when he's still on the loose and they're still in his hideout. Yeah, I think there's some real issues with this one. Not as many issues as with the thing alien story. But still, this one fails to pass the smell test for me. So, what, a five, would you say? Yeah, I think a five for all around, yeah. Okay, well. You know Yeah, I got like a five for all around. Yeah.

Okay. Well, I'll say a five, five for characterization, maybe a seven for whether the fruit pie plan would work. Yeah, he doesn't get to eat a lot probably. Yeah, he doesn't committed to. Not delicious flaky crust. And this is just a job. If you're a goon working for Trappster,

why not stop for a fruit pie? Like come on, this isn't a great job. Okay, this is the final one. I remember this one being an oddball adventure. Interesting. It's called The Incredible Hulk and the Green Thumb, and there's a lot to take in here. I'm gonna move the picture a little closer

because there's so much stuff going on here. And this art style looks really familiar, but I can't put my finger on who it looks like. I don't know why this went down. Is it Charles Burns? Yeah, it's probably Charles Burns. It's probably Charles Burns, yeah. So, there's an explanatory note up top.

It says, the Hulk has been befriended by cousin Betsy, the plant lady, and the the sign on the window for her shop identifies her too as cousin Betsy the plant lady it's odd it's you can see it correctly inside the shop it's not backwards are they inside they might be they might be outside and she's got a lot of plants on the outside a lot of a lot of there could got a lot of plants on the outside, a lot of flower shops do that. It's true, there could be a lot of plants on the sidewalk. Yeah.

Yeah, anyway, she says, now my dear green thing, I'm only too happy to take you in, sorry, take you in with all my other, er, all my vegetables and plants. And Hulk is dazed as he often is. Hulk says, Hulk no remember how he got here, but Hulk happy. Finally find place where Hulk can find peace

and nice cool shade plant to sit under. Oh yeah, nobody ever tried that. And Betsy explains to these sort of plant creatures. Job from Lawn Mower Man? Yeah, that one. She explains to these plant creatures she has all around her, oh, my beautiful plants, my own little gang,

what fine specimens you are. Rhoda, Mary, Artie, I want you to meet the Hulk. That Jade Giant is going to join us in our next. Now you just say so, Artie is clearly an artichoke, Rhoda's probably a Rhododendron, Mary's like a marigold. This is good stuff, this is good. Yeah, it's good.

That Jade Giant is going to join us in our next robbery of diamonds. Can't say diamond robbery and other precious things. What a specimen and so green and Hulk Immediately rejects this Hulk no join strange plants Hulk no like people or plants Hulk want to be alone. That's funny He's clearly liked that nice cool shade plant earlier. Yeah Yeah, I mean, I there's one thing I know about Hulk.

He does like to be alone. Yeah, that's true. That was Hulk's famous slogan, Hulk want to be alone. I do remember that first issue of the Avengers where Hulk is dressed up as a, what, a clown robot? The circus is pretending that he is a robot strong clown. Yes Very odd. This was in the first issue of the Avengers the basis for the hit film You that would have been really elephants. Yes. I want to see that in a movie so badly

So he's a clown and a robot. That's how he's so strong Because he's clearly the Hulk Betsy, I warn you green gargantua, join us or else the arty choke chokes. Go get him arty. And Hulk doesn't like this. Hulk always. She continues, see green Goliath? When I talk to my plants they listen.

So I like this, there's a lot of text in this one. Yeah, a lot of text. Hulk always wind up saying, double crossed first by puny humans, now by puny plant, now Hulk mad. Oh, you don't wanna get it. You don't like him when he's angry. And he gets stronger, yeah.

Now this is very strange. Hulk is not supplying the host's fruit pies in this one. Hulk turns Artichoke upside down and shakes her, and diamonds and fruit pies fall out of, I guess, between the leaves of her artichoke head. That was originally the title of the Prince song, by the way, diamonds and fruit pies. And Mary says, forget the diamonds, save the delicious hostess fruit pies. And Artie says, with the real fruit filling and the light tinder crust.

Yeah, we get it. Oh, the apple cherry lemon. Yeah, she stored these fruit pies in her head. And then they're being led away by cops. A criminal gang of plants that love juicy hostess fruit pies. What next? Yeah, no shit. And in the distance we see Hulk jumping away as he does, saying, next Hulk go find peace in city,

far away from green things. Oh, he find peace in city far away from green things This is by far the best of them it We have got the other ones. They're like, yeah, you know what? This is a this is a pretty basic superhero story pretty basic Marvel story There's a bad guy. The super hero is gonna stop him He stops from the fruit pies. This one, this main character is so perverse and the way we find the information about her is so strange that she's like, join me Hulk, join me with my other plants and then so casually in the second one, by the way, we also robbed diamonds. Okay, I guess that she says it right in front of Hulk and he gets mad that the fruit pies are already hidden. They've also also been stealing

fruit pies, I guess, or she just buys them and stores them in the artichoke. That's what they wanna save. And then by the end, it's not even like he stops. I don't know how the police get there. I don't know how they know. I guess they're just called because someone says, the Hulk is fighting a plant monster.

Go deal with this. And the Hulk could not care less that they have been stopped with fruit pies. He's not offering them to anybody. He's oblivious. He's got places to go. Yeah, been stopped with fruit pies. He's not offering them to anybody. He's oblivious. He's got places to go. Yeah, he and the fruit pies never interact.

And the straightforward version of this would be Bruce Banner is getting mad and he starts to turn into the Hulk. Another hero gives him a fruit pie. It calms him down because he likes it so much. And he turns back into Bruce Banner and he still likes the fruit pie. That's the straightforward version.

Anyone could tell that story. But some genius stepped in and said, no, I want to try something different. I want to challenge the basic narrative and I want to do it in a way that leaves the reader with more questions than answers. Maybe that answer they'll find will be inside a fruit pie, but I don't know. They're just going to have to look. And I feel like they also wanted to soft launch their cousin Betty and plant Robbers getting yeah

Yeah, maybe they're ready for the big time They yeah, they feel like such they feel like DC villains too So it's almost like Hulk like jumped into a DC comic in the silver age Understandably mad. Yeah Shazam gang. Yeah. And you mentioned that the song that came to my mind, Stuart, was of course, Diamonds and Fruit Pies by Joan Baez, later covered by Judas Priest. What a, you know, what a song.

We both know what memories can bring. They bring diamonds and fruit pies. And so, yeah, I'm going to give this one 10 for the Hulk. He does not want to be a part of anything. He loves sitting under nice cool shade plants. And then he jumps away, does not care about fruit pies. And I'm gonna give it, yeah, of course this plan works. It's not even a plan.

It's just things just happen. Because that's life, Dan. When you make plans, things just happen. Yeah. When you make plans, like this is not sell fruit pies as a crime fighting tool. That's what I love about it. It is an ad sell fruit pies as a crime-fighting tool. That's what I love about it. It is an ad for fruit pies in which the fruit pies

are almost negligible. Almost not even part of the prostate. Because it's not even, in the other ones, it's kind of assumed the only way I can solve this problem is with fruit pies. Here, the fruit pies, they're just a side element to Hulk beating the crap out of this plant and then jumping away.

This one admits that there are some problems that can't be solved with fruit And I appreciate that I appreciate the honesty of that that not all problems are fruit pie problems Yeah, cuz I'm sure there's a version of this story where they're like, okay So Hulk is fighting these plants and he has to give him fruit pies to stop fighting him and they're like but Hulk wouldn't give a shit Well, so plants wouldn't want to eat fruit pies, right? That's what fruits are. That one plant says, save the delicious hostess fruit pie and Artie Choke says with the real fruit filling and the light tender crust.

They're humanoid plants. He's so obsessed with it. He's saying this out loud while he's being held upside down. Yeah. Yeah. Well. Yeah. It's a, this is, here's the thing.

Sometimes someone takes kind of like a junk art form and makes art, what's been called termite art, you know? And in this case, we've seen a lot of craft go into the other ones. I think there's less craft in this one, but there's more art, if you understand what I'm saying. Yeah. Yeah, I do. Well, thank you for joining me

for the most educational mini we've ever done. I'm just glad we've done two minis in a row now telling people about the Marvel Universe, you know, which is, that's great. I don't mind it. Equally important corners of the universe. Yeah. Well, when that Hulk and the Green Thumb movie comes out,

people will know what it's all about. People will be ready. Thank you for listening. Thank you for listening. Thank you to Maximum Fun. Go to MaximumFun.org to check out all the other great podcasts on Max Fun. Membership of listeners like you in Max Fun is what keeps us going. Thank you to Alex Smith.

He goes by HowlDotty on the internet. You can check out his music, his Twitch streams. He's got a podcast that I've been enjoying very much. It's a very strange concept. It's just a man and his giant possum friend talking about stuff. It's funny. Check that out too. What's the name of it?

I believe it's called the Big Howl and Possum Podcast. But for the Flophouse, I've been Dan McCoy. I've been Stuart Wellington. And I've been Elliott Kalin, not enjoying these delicious hostess fruit pies, but it really makes me wish I could. Wait, with the real fruit filling and the light, tender crust? You know it. A worker-owned network of artist-owned shows supported directly by you.