The Flop House - FH Mini 138 - In the Pantheon

Episode Date: October 4, 2025

We've made it no secret that we at The Flop House are proud to have been included in the newly-published, The Podcast Pantheon: 101 Podcasts That Changed How We Listen. On this episode we welcome the author of that book, Sean Malin, to the show, to help us discuss the MOVIE pantheon, and which canonical films we could all live without.See The Flop House LIVE IN CHICAGO this November!And, if you prefer to watch us from the comfort of your own home: Tickets for Flop TV Season 3 are ON SALE!Subscribe to our NEWSLETTER, “Flop Secrets!

Hey everyone and welcome to The Flop House. This is a Flop House mini. What is that? You say to yourself because you're confused. You're confused and alone. The Flop House normally is a podcast where we talk about bad movies. But every other week we go a little off model. We do what we like, mostly still movie related, because, you know, there's a brand.

And this case, I am in charge. But it is inspired by our guest, Sean Malen, who wrote The Podcast Pantheon. I'm holding it up for the camera that we have here, but not that you see 101 podcasts that change how we listen, which, you know, risks people scoffing at it by including the Flop House in that 101. We're the one, right? Yeah, we're the one. We just made it. But we're honored.

Welcome, Sean. Thank you. Yeah, I'll face whatever challenges shall come our way from that. It was worth it. It was worth it. So no one but me knows what we were actually doing today, which is the way that we enjoy playing these mini, sort of springing things on one another.

And I know that Sean has said that this book, The Podcast Pantheon, was sort of inspired by the review books of yesteryear, that attempted to set or start conversations about what the canonical works in various media are, like Rolling Stones, a 500 Greatest Album Guide, et cetera. And it got me thinking about lists in general, the big lists of canonical films. And so for this, I'm going to run through some of the big list in film criticism, some of the title is found there.

And because we're iconic last here at the flop house, I'm going to have us discuss which title, if we had to pick, if we had to, which title we would kick off these lists. We would boot into the outer darkness. And I'm going to start off with...

We'll be judge, jury, end executioner. That's right. Okay, I can do that. I'm going to start off with, now don't worry, you're going to hear the number 100. I'm not going to do all 100 movies. Oh, okay.

It's going to be the top five of this. Go for it. Let's do this. like it when a movie stretches a bit super long for comedy's sake so maybe he would do it. I mean, I did, I think he referred to in our previous episode the egg dying

sequence in an Easter bunny puppy as his pick for a tour to force sequence of the year, even though it wasn't even a new movie. Yeah. No, this is a this is of course AFI's 100 years, 100 movies list. One of the sort of

lists that was sort of put out in the world to drum up interest in the movies in general. AIFI stands for Alien Amp Farm Institute. What? Yeah, that first A is really doing double duty. It's two different A. It's two different words, yeah. I see.

You just pronounce it once. Yeah. No, of course, the American... It's actually Alf financial instruments. These are new innovative financial instruments that Wall Street is playing with that are based on Alf, that lovable alien, Gordon Shumway from Melmac. Alph is back again. You can't get rid of him.

Lock up your cats, everybody. Alps back. He's hungry for cinema. Yeah. Why haven't they done an alf reboot yet, guys? They've done two, I think. They've tried to make them into a talk show. I'm ready to.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, thank you. Get the Disney team that did Lion King and everything on there, yeah. But do shot-for-shot remakes. Oh, I was thinking like a Mufasa, like an Alf Mufasa. Okay. Origin story. To be honest, Mufasa would have been a much better movie if Al-Bel. had played Mufasa in that movie.

Yeah. Or if he's riding Mufasa around for a while, he's like, I'm your best friend, right, Mufus? Hey, Timon and Fumba, nice to meet you. Wait, I've got something here. What is this? Alfasa. Is that anything?

Alfa, yeah. Oh, okay. Alfa Romeo, which is, of course, the Italian Alf. Oh, boy. This is, of course, the American Film Institute. Oh. Never mind. So the Alf stuff was not relevant at all.

I'm sure we can cut off Alex if you do I'll be so mad Alfx What if Alf was our producer Alex Yeah That would be also very fun Although I would again have to keep my cats far away

Yeah 100 years 100 movies The top five on that list But he doesn't actually ever eat a cat Right So it's all smoke no fire right He kills me cats off camera There's a lot of blood

Man, I just don't remember And it gets all caked into his fur And then Willie has to shampoo him in the tub Yeah, that's why he and Willie are so close Right, just because Willie's seen everything Yeah, exactly Willie, you've got to help me hide the evidence Okay, so they're less close than bound together by blood

Yeah, exactly Okay, well anyway Knowing what I know about you, you've got to help me So wait, Willie also has done something horrible Why else do you think he's... How else do you think he got wrapped up in this web of seduction and deceit? Come on. Okay. So what we've got here at the top, we've got...

I've got pictures, Willie, that kind of stuff, yeah. Jesus Christ. We've got Citizen Kane. Oh, yeah. The Godfather. Very little Alps in Santa Blanca. Raging Bull. Okay.

And singing in the rain. You can stop there. Just knock them all off. Who cares? Just get rid of them. So tell me those. And so what are we doing, Dan? We're going to knock one off.

We're going to knock one off. Not because we don't like it. And name these again. Name these movies again? Citizen Kane. You got it. The Godfather. Oh, what a movie.

Casablanca. Sure. Lever. Raging Bull. That guy was so ragey. And singing in the rain. It was so rainy. Who's going to go first?

I came up with this infernal plan. I'm ready to, you know, court some ridicule. He's jumping in front of some bullets here. Because I've got my answer, too. But if you want to go first, Dan, I'm happy to let you go. Obviously, they're all great movies. I'm not saying that any of them are not. I've never been, despite being a male of a certain age, I've never been a godfather guy.

I'm like, yeah, okay, the godfather. Like, maybe I just don't. You have a problem with the length? Is that what Elliot was saying earlier? No, it's not the, I just like, I don't feel the same, like, romance about the mafia. Dan doesn't understand the concept of family, you know. I understand that it's a metaphor. for like what it takes to get ahead in America, sort of.

But I don't know. As my movies go, I've always been a good fellow's guy. So I'm surprised in because for me, the one that I would knock off of that list is a different Italian-American director from the 60s, 70s, New Hollywood era. And that is, A Raging Bull, I think, is a beautifully made movie.

It's always left me a little cold. When I finish it, I'm like, I don't know what the purpose is of telling that story. Like, I don't know what I feel. feel that guy's rage and his pain and his frustration and the downfall and everything. But I'm always like, this seems like the story of like an asshole who is not, whereas Godfather to me is about trying to, is it about how America operates, about avoiding the sins of the past and things you have to do to protect your family, but that they also drag you down and consequences.

I find Godfather be such a beautiful movie. So it's interesting, but we can disagree. That's fine. Sometimes movies can just be about a character. and also a type of character. I think it is, I think a raging bull is illuminating about, you know, someone who feels so many emotions, but feels them on like sort of an almost animal level

and does not have the skills to do anything positive with them. And because, you know, I think it's a great movie. It was part of, listeners will know that it did appear in my top 10 meet on film movies for the part where his wife burns his steak, and he gets mad, yeah. What about you guys? Sean, Stuart, what do you think? Yeah, I mean, I'm just going to chime in with Elliot.

I would say, of those, I think, I have the least affection for Raging Bull. And also similar to something Dan mentioned earlier about how Goodfellas is for him, the mafia movie, I feel like it's really hard not to look at the rest of Scorsese's film, you know, career and see films that I have a deeper connection with. Yes, I agree.

If you had put Goodfellas in that list, the list you put together while you were working at the AFI. Not me. I think Goodfellas still would have been the movie that I would have pushed off the list. But I think it would have been much harder for me than Raging Bull. That's interesting. The gap seems so wide between Raging Bowl and Goodfellas to me. Like I see them with such, like I love Raging Bowl and I like Goodfellas a lot.

But I hate to like, am I allowed to say that singing in the rain is like, I love singing in the rain. I love all of them, but am I allowed to say that it's just like soft shit? Like the other thing, I'm not like the intense guy, but I'm like, you can say anything you want. Those four other movies, I'm like, whoa, those are like hardcore. And then I'm like singing the rain. Oh, nice. You make an interesting point.

I think that in terms of criticism and in terms of scholarship, the hard and the grim often gets elevated over the joyful and I think what singing in the rain does is so beautiful and so hard to ploff which is such a joy all the way through the same way that it baffles me that Wizard of Oz is not in that top five

when I think Wizard of Oz is maybe the most amazing movie that ever got made. It's so beautiful and it's so like magical and the fact that it is now the number one attraction at the sphere I don't know exactly how to feel about that but I feel kind of happy about it

even though they mangled that movie to make it that way but that I think it's very easy to be like raging bulls the inner torment of a man and it's easy to kind of push aside singing in the rain because it is ultimately kind of like fluff in a way like the fact that it's about this like traumatic moment in movie production history when a lot of people's livelihoods disappeared as silent in the sound but it's done in like a real fun way and the best part of it is literally dude just dancing in the rain and singing in there like the title of the movie pays off that guy does sing in the song in the the rain, you know. But I think that's a really good point. Like, it's so, I feel like I am so, like, I experience, like, rage and sadness in films that, like, moments of genuine joy are so rare that I, like, cling to them, whether it's, like, the moment in, what was that, Hustlers, when Usher shows up at the strip club, and they, like, all run out there, and I'm like, I feel like I could punch a hole through God right now.

But also, like, Stewart made the, uh, this motion earlier. And when I see movies about movies, I'm like, that's what I think of immediately. Like, I love singing in the rain and I love being shown it in film class. But I'm also like, how many times do I have to see movies that celebrate the art of movies before I'm like, who gives a fiddly fog? Like who, it doesn't matter. Wow. Lokey roasting the studio. Wait, for our listeners at home and also me who was looking away, what motion was this?

It's a very human motion, yeah. It's the most human motion. It's the classic jerking off a horse motion. Also a monkey motion. Yeah. A monkeys also love that motion. Yeah. Okay, well, you know, sorry, Raging Bull.

You got the most votes. You're out of here. Okay. It's no longer a movie. Yeah, it's now no longer a movie and it gets thrown away forever. No one's allowed to watch it. And I want to reiterate. You've been canceled, Raging Bull.

For us not like you quite as much. much a couple of us. I want to reiterate for our listeners that this is a completely silly exercise, that these are all great movies. This is not the canon that we're putting together. For LARFs. Guys, I just pulled up Just Watch, and it says Raging Bowl isn't available anywhere now. Oh, no.

We've erased it from existence. I mean, to be honest, with today's streaming licensing things, it wouldn't surprise me if at some point Raging Bowl was just unavailable somewhere. You'd be like, this movie? No one can see it. They'd be like, sorry, the company decided it was a better tax benefit to just never show it to anyone ever again. I mean, like, as I've mentioned this before, but for the longest time to live and die in L.A. wasn't available digitally anywhere until like Amazon just put it on Prime.

And I'm like, uh, thank you, I guess. Yeah. The only way to like get it back is to put David Zazloff in it and then put it up in it. That's what they did. Isn't that what they did with, uh, isn't that what they did that with Wizard of Oz for the sphere? Yeah, he's in it. And David Zazloff shows up in it. The what?

He's incredible in it. Amazing performance. Yeah, yeah. He's the tin man now. Yeah, yeah. Sticking with the AFI, there's another list here that I think... Is this going to be 100 years, 100 laughs? Yes, indeed it is.

Wait, did they put David Zazlov at the beginning, like a Michael Eisner or like when that Pixar guy's like, hey, here's a Miyazaki movie. And I'm like, yeah, just show me the movie. I don't need to see you. No, it's not like an introduction. I think they use computers to insert him and the guy who owns the sphere into the background of a scene, you know? Weird.

Which, you know what, whatever. That's the smallest thing. I don't like that. So it's like Space Jam where the droogs are like... Exactly. The droogs and Baby Jane are just watching this basketball game, loving it. I think the thing that bothers me less about the sphere mangling of Wizard of Oz where they cut it down and they change the framing stuff is that like,

you can only see it at the sphere. It's not like, it's not like George Lucas where he's like, boom, there's only one version of Star Wars now and it's not as good. It's like you're not going to, it's not like you're going to buy a DVD of Wizard of Oz and it's going to be the sphere version. It's extremely easy to avoid this terrible version of this movie. Can you buy the sphere version? Well, you can buy the movie sphere and you can edit the scenes in with the movie Wizard of Oz.

Cool. So Dustin Hoffman is dreaming everything in Oz. Hey, speaking of Dustin Hoffman, 100 years and 100 laughs. Don't you do not. Turzy is off the list right off the bat. Tutsi's on there. Kick it off that list right now. Okay.

We got some like it hot. Oh, you know what? I was too quick to jump on Tutsi, maybe. I don't know. How is it, wait, is this the, wait, what numbers are these in the list? These are the top two. So apparently the funniest thing in the world is, yes, is drag. Oh, now I can't trust anything on this list.

Dr. Strangelove or how I stopped learning, how I learned to stop worrying and love the bomb. A movie I love that I don't find very funny. Yeah. Yeah, but you don't have to judge it on the basis of laughs. Yeah, it's only called 100 years, 100 laughs. That's the list, man. We're talking about what movie we want to get rid of it. I think it's just one laugh per movie.

If you laughed at it once. We guarantee you one laugh for movie. It's the part where George C. Scott falls down because he's so excited. Annie Hall and Duck Soup. Those are the top five there. Elliot, you've already started talking. So we get to throw them all out or we just throw out one? What?

Throw them all out? I will say this is a tough one. I shouldn't, you know what, Dan, Sean Stewart. I apologize that I'm monopolizing the one on this one. I just assumed Tutsi would be on there and I got mad. but Some Like It Hot, one of my less favorite Billy Wilder movies, and I love Billy Wilder, and he has such funnier movies, and it's amazing to me the top two movies are both drag movies.

That's really bonkers. I saw the recent stage production of Something Like It Hot, and it was really fun. I'm going to jump in here and say... It was modernized. Here's what I'll say about Some Like It Hot. Actually, I would push off to a C. Some Like It Hot, the problem I have with it is it is timed for watching

with a theatrical audience, and so there are pauses in the rhythm of the movie that really slow it down when you're watching it at home but which work, I'm sure, very well in a theatrical setting because I know they were literally like that whole scene where Jack Lemon says a joke and then dances with Maracca's

they were doing that partly because they're like, people are going to laugh, we need to give them room to laugh. And so it probably works better with an audience. Elliot, I want to say that I share your general mehness

about both Some Like It Hot and Tootsie but I would push Tootsie off as well because there's stuff in Some Like It Hot that I find funny. mostly the Carrie Grant impression. That's what I thought you're going to say. Yeah, Tony Curtis's Carrie Grand impression. I mean, there's funny stuff in it.

Marilyn Monroe is really good in it. You know what? Some like it hot. I wouldn't put it at number one, right? But Tootsie is a movie I find just I don't like it at all, you know. It's not even the number one Billy Wilder, which is strange. But like I have to lose it because I worked at the Hotel Dell in Coronado Island. And they used to have, like the employees would walk under a little hallway that had wires,

hundreds and hundreds of wires completely open and dangling over your head. You just thought you were going to die in a bad fire, like a 1920s fire. So I'm going to lose it because it's like triggering. Otherwise, I love the movie. Stuart, do you ever thought about this? Yeah, I mean, I would probably say Tutsi for me. I think of the movies listed, that's the one I like the least. All right.

I think clearly, I think duck soup, Annie Hall, let's not get into a controversy about it. And Dr. Strange lover, I think we're all better movies than that. than the first two on those list. But Tootsie's the only one. I remember it was like a few years ago. My wife and I were like, you know what? We haven't watched Tootsie in a long time. And I'm like, that was the one my professors always told me,

if you want to write a classic comedy, watch Tootsie. And we watch it, not one laugh the entire time, except for some of Homer's lines, I guess. But it was just the way he treats Terry Gar is so mean. And I know it's supposed to be like, oh, he learned to be a better man. But it's like, he's still a pretty bad dude at the end. And it's just inexcusable.

He could save the president from people who kidnapped him. let's uh what is that was that was that he said he's a bad dude yeah oh yeah yeah oh like the video game bad dudes yeah like i was like was that the plot of tootsie too was that he was going to have to get in drag again to save the president from kidnappers um let us move on to uh the sight and sound list here we're going to get into some interesting um trouble because like there are a couple movies here at the top that i haven't seen but the sight and sound list and i'm i'm both uh not good with uh french pronunciation despite having taken it for years and i'm not going to try and do the numbers in french but we've got up top we got jean dielman uh 23 quad de commence uh 1080 broxel i don't know

vertigo you pronounced it perfectly thank you vertigo citizen cane Tokyo story and in the mood for love and i i have never seen either jean dealman or in the mood for love Oh, wow, in the mood for love rocks. I believe there's a 4K restoration in rep screenings now. I'd like to go out and see it. John Doman's great, too. Tell me again, what are the, all of them, John Doman, Tokyo, Murray, Vertigo, Susan Kane, Tokyo Story, and In the Mood for Love.

I'm going to toss myself off a bridge instead of kill any of these. I love these movies. What a great list. Sight and sound. I'm like, wow, really bringing it out. Yeah. That's the hardest one of the three so far, I think. I agree.

That's a great list. Whatever movie I toss off, I'm going to feel bad about. I think I've only seen Vertigo Citizen Kane and In the Mood for Love. I've never seen Tokyo Story or Jean Diehlman. So I can't, I'm not going to throw out movies I've never seen. So that's really tough. I don't know which one to pick. Yeah, they all rock so hard.

I'm going to feel bad about it. I think I might throw off Tokyo Story because there are, Ozu movies that I like a little more than Tokyo Story, but not because Tokyo Story is not great, you know? Yeah, I mean, I think the idea is that for the most part, these lists are going to be challenging

to pick a movie. The 100 years, 100 last one was pretty easy. Yeah, it was pretty easy. If we're going to force ourselves, I, you know, like Stuart, I'm not comfortable tossing something off I haven't seen. So of what I've seen using your rubric there, Elliot, there are Hitchcock

movies I like more than Vertigo. So I guess I've got to get rid of Puerto Rico. I was going to say, of the three on that list that I've seen, I think the one I have like the least connection to is Citizen Kane. So, I mean, it's not a bad movie, obviously, but I like Vertigo and in the mood for Lovemore. Yeah, I feel this, this one was a hard one. Sight and Sound heard us by forcing us to do this.

Wait a minute, Sight and Sound didn't force us. It was Dan that forced us to do us. I'm the insidious game master here. He's the torture, torture. Painful. Yeah, I think I'm just going to get rid of, I like all these movies. very much and I like them equally.

I'm going to have to get rid of vertigo just as like another punishment for the Brits for all they've done to us, the pain. Very good point. Very good point. When they taxed our tea, that was rough. That pissed me off. It's hard for me to toss vertigo because I love that. Yeah, they're really grow in my ears.

So good. That's a tough one. Those are all good movies. Yeah. I would recommend any of them. Unless you do you want to sit and watch a woman cut a potato up for a while, in which case, Gene Dillman is really the only option you have. haven't. Yeah. Right before we take a short break, I'm going to do another equally important, equally respected list. And of course, it is the list of nominees for the Oscars stand-up and

cheer moment. Oh. They only do that the one year? Once. And everyone made so much fun of them. They stopped immediately. That's so lame that they didn't just do it again. Do you think that they're like, didn't it having the same year as Will Smith slap Chris Rock, are they, like, doing a false equivalency there? Like a false correlation?

I don't remember. I don't think so. I don't remember. I don't think so. I think the problem was that the next year, there were no movies where people stood up and cheered. So just nothing was eligible for the prize. Well, a bunch of ushers were like, don't do that.

And they're like, oh, right, we shouldn't do that. Yeah, the ushers were like, don't do that. Yeah, then they went to the hustlers. And people were like, yeah, yeah. Yeah, they said, yeah, because that's one of his fucking songs. That's his song, yeah. So, of course, of course, we all remember. We all remember what's on this list.

All I remember is. All I remember is. For the audience. Yeah, for the audience. For the audience, we should of course mention they might have forgotten that when Flash entered the speed force, that was a big stand of a cheer moment. I don't remember any of the others.

We've got Spider-Man No Way Home, the Spider-Man team-up. Then we're just talking about the movies, but of course I'll tell you what the moment. Sorry, thank you. The Matrix, Neo-Dodging Bullets. Dream Girls, and I am telling you. telling you, I'm not leaving, or going.

You were cheering so hard, you couldn't even hear the lyrics. I couldn't hear the lyrics. I was just, Avengers Endgame, Avengers Asimble. And, of course, the winner, Zach Snyder's Justice Lee, Flash enters the Speed Force. I feel like when that happened in the theater, Dan, you stood up so fast, you got a headache and passed out. I thought I had entered the Speed Force. And the popcorn bucket that was on your lap fell off of you. And so you were just passed out covered in popcorn, yeah.

Yeah. with a rapidly deflating bonner. Yeah, sticking through the bottom of the popcorn bucket. Not that rapidly deflating. Dan was alone in the theater. That's the strange thing, yeah.

Stewart made himself laugh so much that he put his head down. That's my own stand of a cheer moment. Yeah, you're way down. Crazy how divorce these are from like what the Oscars actually awarded. Like, the only one that they care about is Dreamgirls.

Like, what are they trying to do it? Yeah. I mean, the other ones are all like, yeah, they're all just like, Yeah, this movie made a bunch of movie. I mean, it feels like it is there. I remember when around the time that the, like, that I think Dark Knight was not nominated for Best Picture or whatever, where people were like, what is this? They never nominate the movies that people care about.

And so this, I think, was there being like, well, we're going to give so kind of BS award. I mean, all the Oscars are BS awards. We're going to give some BS award for like big popcorn movies, but they can't all be just superhero action movies. So we've got to put something from Dreamgirls on there. but also they're like all from different years right like it's such a weird it's a weird idea for them to do it feels very like they didn't put a lot of work into it um okay so we got to pick one to kick off yeah man probably the fucking one the speed force one because at least all the other movies i liked a little 100% it's the worst movie by far yeah all the other ones there's

you could legitimately say people did have a strong reaction in the theater to say it doesn't usually stand up and cheer. It was like, whoa. Or like, I remember seeing Dreamgirls in the theater and people love, there was applause in the theater after, I'm not going. Yeah. And the, but I didn't see, I didn't see Justice League in the theaters, but I have to assume people were not like, if there was any moment even that they were cheering in that, it was not necessarily entering the speed. Like, it feels like they just picked a random moment. It was the credits. It was the end. They're like, oh. They said, it's over. And goodness.

Finally. Um, well, all those Avengers were coming out at the end of Avengers at the game. People were cheering in the theater. Which I thought was funny also because it's like, You guys know this is planned ahead of time, right? This is not, it's not happening spontaneously right now. I'm not sure they did know that. I think it would bring some people out. I get escorted out. He's like, because this is a live stream, right, from what, Avengers headquarters?

Well, let's take a short break and then we'll be back with more of this useless exercise. Hey, it's Sue the subway train Hey, guess what, Sue? I just inherited a game show And I have to continue it because there are people out there Who like to curl up into a ball and listen to it Yeah, it's a podcast where listeners submit game show ideas For others to play on air Well, it is, in fact, the dumber the better

Right, right, it's called Dr. Game Show. Some curled up balls consider it a tradition, while others call it a train wreck. No, not you, Sue, it's Dr. Game Show. If you're the sort that likes to listen to people competing for refrigerator magnets, then curl up

into a ball and listen to Dr. Gameshow every other Wednesday, maximum fun.org. Are you a five-star batty? If you answered yes, then Black People Love Paramore is the podcast for you. Contrary to the title, we are not a podcast about the band Paramore.

Love Heremore is a pop culture show about the common and uncommon interests of black people in order to help us feel a little bit more seen. We are your co-hosts, Sequoia Holmes, Jewel Wicker, and Ryan Graham. And in each episode, we dissect one pop culture topic that mainstream media doesn't associate with the black people, but we know that we like. We get into topics like Gingerale, The Golden Girls, Black Romance, Uno, and so much more. Tune in every other Thursday to the podcast that's dedicated to helping Black people feel more seen. Find Black People Love Paramore on Maximumfund.org or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, Flop House, listeners, if you live in the Chicago area and have no plans for the evening of Sunday, November 16, we have added a late show, a late live show after our first show sold out. We will be talking about K-9, starring Jim Belushi, known worldwide as one of the two Belushi options. The show is at Sleeping Village at 9.30 p.m. And if you go to the events page at Flophousepodcast.com, you'll find a link to get tickets. Also, the Flop TV season is in full swing, but you can still get individual tickets or a season pass and not miss anything, because all of the episodes will be available on demand through February of 2026. But if you want to join us live, those shows are our show. on the first Saturday of every month.

It's a video stream where we're covering film flops starting in the 2000s and going all the way back to the 1950s with additional presentations, pre-tapes, questions from the live chat. So if you want to see those shows, go to theflophouse.com. That is, T-I-X for Tics, for tickets and more info. That's theflophouse. dot simpletakes.com. Now, back to the show. And we are back. And of course, we are kicking off movies off of lists of top films because why not?

What better thing can we do on this Saturday afternoon when we're recording this? And the next esteemed list that we'll be talking about is, of course, Elliot Kalin's top four on Letterbox. What do we got here? We got the taking of Pelham, one, two, three. Seeing it. This is the recent one, right? Nope. No.

Nope. The original one. We have Shadow of a Doubt, the Alfred Hitchcock picture. The Miracle of Morgan's Creek by Preston Sturges. And closely watched trains, a gym of the Czech New Wave. I'm told. Someone said the shining jewel in the crown of the Czech new wave. Yeah.

Wow. Fireman's ball attack. Ironman's Ball is great. Fireman's Wells Great. Snow closely watch trains. So what do we got here? Yeah, just like looking on that list, I think I've only seen one of the four movies taking a Pelham, one, two, three. So I'm going to

kick that one off because I want to see the others. Oh, okay. That's fair. That's fair. Because I trust Elliot's opinion and if you put these other movies on there, they've got to be great. And I don't want to kick them off before I see him. Like all right-thing people and New Yorkers in particular, I love

taking a Pelham, one, two, three. I love Hitchcock in general. I love Shadow of a Doubt. I also love Preston Sturgis, but Miracle of Morgan's Creek is not one of my favorites, so I have to go with that one. Like, there are at least two or three Sturgis movies I like more. What are you going to put on the Lady Eve?

No, thank you. Hey, we can disagree on these. I mean, I like the Lady Eve, but I just don't like it as much. I'll tell you what mine is last. I've also never seen the Sturgis film. And it's interesting because, like, these are, I like this top four,

just because they're not the first movies I would think of for any of the filmmakers that you've chosen, but like, I don't know. Yeah, I like Stewart's criteria. Like, let's just eliminate the one, you know. If you've seen it, take it off. So I also have to lose Pelham. Even though it's a, I watched it recently for the first time

during COVID. And it's a pretty unbelievable movie. I do have to say. But it's so much fun. It's dead to me. I mean, I hate it. Cancel. Yeah.

Elliot, which is your... Just put a bullet in the back of its head, yeah. Which of your film children do you like the least? Now, this is the tough one for you. The thing that I think is the saving grace of this list is that I'm not saying these are the greatest movies ever made. And I'm not saying that these are the top, top movies, but these are my favorite movies. But I actually, I think I'm going to have to read. I haven't been on Letterbox just so long because my life does not give me time to do recreational things.

Too busy, yeah. Too busy. Yeah, too busy. and I think honestly I might have to take off closely watch trains because lately

I think because it was at I'm thinking about Wizard of Oz the Sphere I've been thinking about how much I love the Wizard of Oz and like how special

that movie is to me and I'm it should be on that list in my might even bump it up a little bit to and bump some of the other movies down like taking Pell 1 23

that's always going to be the number one spot um shadow of a doubt I just love it particularly and it has a it was shot in the town kind of next over from my wife's hometown, so I've been to a lot of the

set, the places that it was shot and I'm really excited by that, but also Miracle Morgan's Creek, that was the second Sturgis movie ever saw. My grandmother took me to see a double billet film forum years and years ago of unfaithfully yours and Miracle and Morgan's Creek and unfaithfully yours is pretty good, but seeing Miracle and Morgan's Creek

I'm like, I don't think I'd ever seen an old movie that silly, you know, in some ways, but closely watch trains I love but I think I might have to take it off and slot Wizard of Oz in that slot and then put CWT right afterwards you know

okay well I'm not gonna you know I'm not gonna let myself get off the hook the next list is Dan McCoy's top four on letter box

so we got here bikini car wash company manual in space it's got everything it's got a manual it's got space what more do you want manual's got to be in something

why not space them's the rules North by Northwest Animal Crackers The Marks Brothers picture The Third Man And the Thing John Carpenter's The Thing

It's a good list It's tough is a toughie I'll go last on this one Just because it's my own Can you repeat him? Do the Oregon North by Northwest For Hitchcock's film

Animal Crackers With the Marks Brothers The Third Man and the thing I guess if I'm going to have to pick because I think these are all great but I would

I guess I just am not the biggest Marks Brothers fan and so I would probably put animal crackers of those four I you know again I think it's good yeah

thank you Stuart for being very thoughtful about my feelings no but I mean just in general like, I don't know. No, I don't care about your feelings. It's important. Yeah, I mean, I do care about it.

You know, in the third man, when they go up in the big, it's like, what is it? Like a, the Ferris wheel. And it's really high up. That scared me, so I'm taking that one out. And the Zither is super annoying, too. I love that movie. Wow, shots fired.

You introduce a Zither into your score. I can't, I don't know. And his name is Lyme? That's a fruit. That's messed up, man. You have to find random criteria if you can't do it otherwise. I can't, at the merit of these films, it's a perfect list. I can't really do.

Animal crackers is a snack that I don't like that much. Exactly. I think it's going to be, this is a tough one because it's a very good list. I think I would either push off, I think it's going to have to be North by Northwest under the criteria of not my favorite Hitchcock. a wonderful movie but not my favorite of his whereas the thing

although the thing is not my favorite John Carpenter movie it's his best movie but it's not like in the mouth of madness which is not his best but which I just I love how much weird stuff is crammed into that movie

and how the movie like at the end there's like two fake endings because it's almost like the movie is like wait wait wait wait wait I got more movie to show you I got more stuff to throw at you but what if this happened

but what if this is it you know but the yeah so I think I'll unfortunately push off North Midwest if only because also we've talked about Hitchcock before in other lists we got Vertigo on one list

we got Shadowdown on mine and the thing feels like a real newcomer you know and it's so well done you know it's got such a eight score it's almost as good a score as the third man The thing is probably the only one on that list The thing is the only one on that list that Roger Ebert was like

stinker Elliot Ebert also said he also said like blue velvet was a stinker. You know, he was... He had to apologize for knocking the Simon and Garfunkel score for the graduate. He literally wrote

in his review like, these songs are immemorable. Like, that's exactly the word I would use. Elliot, I would like to thank you for pointing the way for me where, as you say, these are favorite movies, not necessarily the best movies.

And so even though it is arguably the best movie on my list, I have the least personal, sentimental affection for the third man. So I guess I'll have to lose that. I love that. That's one I used to watch a lot when I was like a teenager.

It's an amazing movie. Yeah. The, I'm curious how, do you have, do you have, just find Animal Crackers the funniest of the runs of the movies? It's my, it's my vote for the funniest. And, um,

uh, I remember, you know, at the daily show, I was like, writing a larry lambasted for loving animal crackers no no i was i was i was writing a larry willmore piece with um with jason ross and jason of course was mostly writing it because he was more senior to me by far that's what it's like when you're working with jason ross this is a writer that this is a comedy writer who uh the it's the i would say to people sometimes that writing with him was a little bit like going on

a long car ride with your dad we're like he's just kind of silently writing it and every now and then you say something and you kind of see if he's going to react to it or not No, a great guy. I love him, and he's a great writer. But, you know, Larry's a student of comedy and loves the Marx Brothers. And the, you know, the most bonding that occurred was me saying that, oh, I love animal factors. He's like, yes, yes, that's my favorite one. It's got the most good bits, you know, so no higher authority than Larry Wilmore also agrees.

He knows what he's talking about. I would disagree, but he knows what he's talking about. I think the funniest one is H-feathers. You don't have enough time to say the full title. I don't know time to say horse. Well, I did a little research on our guests. I don't know if his top four is up to date. I was worried about this.

Sean Malin's top four in Letterbox. We've got Being there. We've got Being John Malkovich. We have the unbearable lightness of Being. So the Being trilogy. What is going on with all the beings? And then Mr. Being. And then the pleasure of being.

robbed another being. It's a gag. I mean, I mess with my letterbox, my top four all the time, because, you know, I'm a professional working critic. Like, I'm not going to give free shit to letterbox. Like, that's just, like, dumb thoughts that I have. I don't put, like, professional shit there. So I mess around all the time. I used to have the American, you know, American pie, American made, blah, blah, blah. Those are definitely not my top four. I just thought they were four funny movies to, like, represent a wide swat of things. I do like all four of those movies. But we are locked in.

We've got to eliminate one. Wait, which one's being there? Being there is Peter Sellers. Right. It's a Hell Ashby movie. And honestly, that's my pick for what I would... I haven't seen the last one mentioned the pleasure of being robbed, but... What's that? I...

Yeah, it's a safety movie. It's there a super early movie around the same era as Daddy Longlegs, and I would immediately eliminate that because it's a good movie but yeah i mean it's very it was made cheaply it's got a kind of intensity to it but it's like you know it didn't change film history it opened up the safeties to what they are but it's not it's not it's like an hour and a half tummyache type movie yeah you're just i mean that's what there are i just think it's funny when you say tummyache that kind of thing it's a very like hardcore gritty new york shit yeah okay well i'll trust you on that but i haven't

seen it so i'm going to go with being there which I always found a little facile in its satire, a little 70s like, oh, look at this, you know. Take down the, I'm showing how society is really, I don't know. I love that you're like mad at a movie for going, look at this.

Most of the experience of movies look at. Yeah, most of them are like, hey, look at this. Like I said, they're books for your eyes. Yeah. I'm going to have to kick off being John Malkovich because I find John Cusack's ponytail unpleasant. Although, again, I'll tell this story Every time I talk about this movie

I took my mom to see that in the theater And this was back when my mom was drinking So she was a lot of fun And she fell asleep in the middle of the movie Before that, though, when he first got to that office That's, you know, in the what, 33 and a half floor or whatever My mom loudly said to the entire theater What a terrible place to work

And I'm like, Mom, you're not wrong And then she fell asleep and then woke up during the final chase. And I'm like, I wonder what she thinks is happening. This is, that reminds me of when the same grandmother that took me to the press and surges movies, we went to see the movie Courage Under Fire when that came out. And around the time that one of the characters commit suicide by driving straight into a train because he's so ashamed of what happened

in the mission where Meg Ryan's characters killed, my grandmother just turns to me very loudly goes, this is a very serious movie. I was like, what did you expect, grandma? You think it was like a comedy called Courage Underfire? Ah, family. Yeah. I'm going to...

What are you? What do you kick on? Sean, you already... Sean picked pleasure being robbed. Yeah. Oh, right. I'm going to follow your lead, Sean. I'm also going to say the pleasure being robbed. It's good, but it's...

I've never seen the unbearable lightness of being. Maybe I'll see it at some point. So I can't kick it off according to the made-up rules that we have. And being there and being... Personal rules. You can make up any rule you want for your own... Oh, then I'll kick them all off what movies I like. Take compel.

One, two, three. Shadow of a doubt. But being there for all that Dan doesn't like it, I really love. And being John Malkovich, I really love. That was one that hit me really hard when I was a freshman in college when it first came out. And it was just very exciting. And it felt like, oh, I'm seeing, it felt for the first time like I'm seeing the new movies of what, like, my generation of moviegoers are going to be really excited about. And it's not Magnolia.

The other movie that came out, I think, the same year where someone I knew, went and saw it like 10 times in the theater because he couldn't get enough of it and I'm like that's not the one for me being John Malcolm is the one for me but being there I really love

there's a there's a I think it's I think it does hit that satirical point and I find it very beautiful at the end but you know Dan you can you can poo poo it because of all the great movies

you've made oh wait a second huh what's this oh man he's got you there Dan all right lock him up give me several million dollars and I'll make a movie to prove you wrong

all right you're on oh I got Sean Do you have several million dollars on the hook of this now? I do, and I'm happy to loan them out to you guys. That'd be wonderful. That'd be great. Well, if Stewart didn't see where this was headed already, he's also sitting right next to me so he can literally see.

Now, Stuart, the iconoclast that Stewart is only has. When they came for Elliot Kalin and the sight and sound list, I said nothing. Stewart, being in an iconoclast, of course, only has three movies on his top four. and those movies are You can't force him to pick a fourth movie Castle Freak, head of the family, and the Invisible Maniac. Now, I just want to say up front,

you know, we've talked about movies being kind of our favorites, but I think in this case, I've chosen what I would say objectively are the best movies ever made. I don't think I've seen any of the three. What are they? Whoa!

Yeah, Castle Freak? Castle Freak, head of the family and the Invisible Maniac. Now, for listeners who have joined us relatively recently and don't get the bit, this was for a long time the Holy Trinity of Stewart's movies, films that he would recommend over and over again.

During the recommendation segments of the podcast, I would recommend these movies every other week, rotating. Specifically, I recommend a Castle Freak and was talking about how the titular freak rips his own ding-dong off and then people started writing letters into me and then people were tweeting at the director Stuart Gordon and he was like, no, that didn't happen.

It was a real mess, but I still think I'm right. So it was a, you know, it was often a fallback, I think, when you maybe forgot that you were going to have to recommend something and hadn't seen something or... Or I just thought it would be funny to do. RIP, Stuart Gordon. Yeah, RIP to a master.

I feel like the height of this, the height of this bit was when someone tweeted at him, and did the Castle Freak rip his own ding-dong off and Sir Jordan just tweeted back, no. But also then, if you went on Amazon and looked up any of these movies, it would say, customers had also purchased

head of the family and Invisible Maniac. So people are really getting the... The Flop House influence. Yeah, the Flop House bump in the Star-Wilent trilogy. Never before has somebody crushed me with two letters before. Yeah. And Stuart Gordon just saying no. But on the upside, you eventually got to meet Georgio,

the Castle Freak when we hosted... Jonathan Fuller, yeah. Castle Freak screening at Alamo Yonkers. And it's weird, the glossy, the 8x10 glossy he signed, it did say I ripped it off myself, so I don't know. I guess that's canon. I guess the

glossies are canon now. Who do we believe? The director of the film or the glossy. Of these films, while it is fun to talk about, there's more assault in the Invisible Maniac, so I guess I'm going to get rid of that one.

I mean, they're all full of assault. These are not, there's not movies that have respect for the human body or the female body in the way that perhaps we would like to believe we have. But again, they're movies. You know, they're meant to horrify. And I guess Invisible Maniac is more to titillate, I guess.

But they're sort of horrify, yeah. Mm-hmm. Yeah, so I think they're all good. I left one off for a reason because there can only be three. I don't know. I would say, of those three, all jokes aside, I would say, yeah,

I mean, I feel like the Invisible Maniac, though it does feature a guy being killed with a submarine sandwich and another guy being killed with a Mario stomp on the head, I would say the Invisible Maniacs. It has the most gross stuff in it. It's probably, well, I think it's also kind of the weakest of the three. Like head of the family, I think it's a very silly movie that is kind of, it's that like fun in a way,

a full moon kind of way. And I think Castle Freaks great because it's a Stuart Gordon movie. I'm going to add Citizen Kane since we've seen it on a bunch of lists and then take it off of your film. Thank you. Thank you. Just to put Orson in his place fully. Yeah, he's had it too easy for too long.

Yeah, if anyone had an easy time in Hollywood, I actually have a pamphlet about this for you guys. Well, I get, but good news for Orson, this made me mad the other day. They go, this company is like, as an AI experiment, we're going to have it recreate the magnificent Inbersons. I'm like, come on, don't do that. What do you talk about? The lost 45 minutes of the magnificent Inversons, they're going to put into a large

language learning model and see what it's fits. out. It's just going to be a very large Orson Wells, like late in his life. Yeah. It's going to be 45 minutes of him talking about French wines and yeah. But that made me very mad. The, but yeah, which one am I going to take

off this list? I don't know. That was a smooth move, adding a movie and then taking it off. That really sidestepped that. That was very clever. That was outsmart a demon in a folk tale, clever. Yeah, yeah. I didn't know we were recording with John Constantine.

I don't know I think I might remove even though Invisible Maniac I think is a little more questionable I might remove head of the family just for variety You're going to mess with the head then you said I am going to mess with the head

and see if I'm dead That's the one thing you're not supposed to do Oh no I did it Well that was the end of my silliness Sean before we sign off Is there something, is there more you want to say about the podcast bathroom or anything? I didn't really give you. Yeah.

Does anybody on your show know that you're in the book? Do they know that you guys earned your spot by being one of the most important podcasts ever released? Thank you. I've done a little promotion. Yeah. Please do. We're getting better at owning our successes. Yes.

Yeah. It's taken a lot of therapy for me to do the same. Like the book is coming out and I have to be like, oh, yes, I'm proud of. of what I've done. But I don't know. I mean, the three of you are in the book. You say shit in it that you've never said on the air. There's exclusives in there.

Exclusive Stuart Wellington content. Full-color photos of us in the book. You're early too, right? You're like in the early pieces. I think because you put it in order of best, so we're number one or two. Something like that. And I was joking about how it kind of starts off like, you know, this podcast started.

it off with some questionable stuff, but then it got good. But honestly, like, if anyone's coming to our podcast, they probably should know that. Like, maybe don't start at the very beginning. No. Start once we got good at doing it. I don't know. I think I love the podcast because I heard that stuff and, like, watched the growth. I don't know.

You know, people can do what they want. But you should at least embrace the fact that in this book, you are among the funniest chapters. I mean, Like, the chapter is funny. Like, it's just enjoyable to read.

I don't know if it's as good as an episode, but I think if people like you, they'll giggle. And you don't get that in a lot of books now. They're all very, like, you know, everything's so serious. Yeah. But also, like, I mean, I, you know, as a podcast listener, I respect the, the editorial voice of the, like, the ones that I'm familiar with, I'm like, yeah, yeah, these are good podcast so I'm excited to then use it as it's intended to be used and be like I'll check

out some of these other things I don't know about it's also quite an honor just flipping through seeing some of the other shows on there because there's some really great podcasts in this book were there did you were there any interviews that you really want to do but weren't able to do like were you like I want to talk to Obama and he's like no way yeah and and in a second an edition or expanded edition in success. We have a lot more that we would add to this, like 1001 plus another 101. Because there's so many amazing podcasts out there,

not that there wasn't like a big selection process. You know, it took months and months and months to whittle down. But yeah, there were a lot of people who were just not available or chose not to participate. And I basically said, fuck you, you're dead to me. Take them off the list. Yeah, you're not the canon. No, yes, there were people that I wanted to talk to, and it just didn't happen on time.

You know, you have a schedule to publish, so. Was there anyone that you were surprised that you were able to interview? Anybody who you were like, oh, wow. Oh, sure. Yeah. I mean, Conan O'Brien is amazing in the book. He wrote pages of material for the book. I'm like, why, why?

Yeah. The office lady, I thought were going to be. impossible to reach because they're so, like, world famous, you know, even before their podcast. But they were really helpful. And they talk about like eating cheese of the book, like their whole schedule is mentioned. That was pretty great. And then there are people who are like, you know, pseudonymous people, like Marlowe Mack, who has the podcast, How to Be a Girl.

Like Marlowe doesn't give a lot of interviews to protect her daughter who's trans, but she agreed to speak with me, you know, over email pseudonymously, but still pretty rare. that was cool you guys were pretty accessible I have to say it wasn't that hard which is not as not as impressive

nor as surprising we were running after you like hey hey hey but you are all which I think is weird people don't know yeah they don't know these are characters we play

all the details we get about our real lives are completely fabricated yeah yeah no it doesn't even have any cats oh my god really no you guys were so

nice to be in the book and Max's fun for providing all the licenses and stuff. Like, it's just awesome. I was so excited. And I've been listening to you guys for a decade. It was fun. It's nice. You're easy work with.

It was simple. And you have a couple of, like, book launch events coming up. There's going to be one next week. Yeah, I don't think this is going to be out in time. Do we know when it's coming out, Dan? Let me, I was not prepared for this, but I'll figure it out. I should have been. I don't think Sean's surprised that we weren't prepared to know offhand what day.

I believe this should be coming out on October 4th. Yeah, okay. So if you're listening to it on October 4th, we have an event at Book Passage in San Francisco. We're going to have a bunch of famous podcasters, Glenn Washington from Snap Judgment and Spook will be there. The Ear Hustle folks, Erlon Woods and Nigel Poor, and then Vanessa Lowe of Nocturn. Oh, it's going to be an amazing event at Book Passage 3 p.m. in San Francisco. And then in Austin, I'll be at Book People, which is really exciting. That's my old hometown bookstore.

And then in November, I'll be at the Miami Book Fair with Dan Leibatard and Stugat's from the Dan Leibatard Show with Stugat's, if you could believe that. Yeah, there will be events all over. And I'm sure the four of us will do something down the line as well. I don't know when or where, but we'll have virtual events all throughout the end of the year and then early into next year. And of course, if and when the book does well, maybe there will be a second thing and there will be more.

Yeah, like the movie version, we'll play ourselves. Yeah, sure. I do think there should be a film adaptation or five. Yep. I think so. Let's figure it out. It's a big book. Yes.

At least get to a third one so you can do the podcast Pan Three on. Oh, wonderful. Yes. You know, I'm available for writing a copy. For writing a title punchup. For putting numbers. We'll get a room together. I'm going to have to put a number in this title.

But nobody knows how to do it. One guy. One guy with a rhyming dictionary. Knows how to do it, you mean. By the way, Dan, you can cut all of this promotional shit out. I just wanted you to like celebrate the fact that you're in the book. Oh, no, no, no. No, we'll keep it in and double it.

We know how the game is played. We know how to scratch, scratch. Scratch backs, yeah, yeah. Yes, that's what it is. We've listened to Backscrach fever. Yeah. It's because we're deeply honored by being in the book. And we want to say thank you to Sean for joining us for the silliness.

We want to say thank you for putting us in the book in such great company. And as long as we're thanking people and entities, let's thank our network, maximum fun. Go to maximum fun. Let's thank Cthulhu of the younger us. There's still from species. I'll mention that there are other Max Fun podcasts in the book. Bullseye is one.

I know I'm forgetting another, at least, that's in there. Query with Cameron Esposito is also in there. Oh, awesome. So thank you to our network. Check out the other great podcasts, including ones in the podcast, Pantheon. And thank you to Alex Smith, our producer, who goes by the name Howl Dottie

on the internet. his workout as well. But for now, that's the end of this show. For the Plot Pass podcast, I've been Dan McCoy. I've been Stuart Wellington. I've been Elie Kaelin. And we were joined by Sean Maylin. Maximum Fun.

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