The Flop House - FH Mini #23 - Flop Etiquette

Episode Date: February 6, 2021

We talk with Joel Church-Cooper, creator of the show Brockmire, about what it's like to talk to actors about their less successful projects.Also, the Flop House VIRTUAL LIVE SHOW, is TONIGHT, Saturday, February 6th, at 9 pm Eastern! Just $10! Buy a ticket HERE! And if you want exclusive, only available for a limited time TOUR SHIRTS, go HERE!

Is that Doc Hollywood? Are you talking about Doc Hollywood? Yeah, I'm talking about doc I'm talking about for lover money We're talking about the plot of the TV show B&B I don't know I thought that was about about Sean Cassidy the X-man member who can scream real loud if Only Elliot if only no, it's a show about a if only Elliot, if only. No, it's a show about a criminal who gets out of jail and he goes to a small town in Pennsylvania where he is at a bar and the new sheriff who just arrived in town gets killed. So he becomes the new sheriff. And this is said in modern times and the main, the main criminal mastermind is a former Amish guy. A former Amish guy.

Yeah, he's no longer an Amish person. But he's still like badass. Like imagine like the most badass Amish guy. Yeah, sure. Did you guys ever see that documentary, Devil's Candy, which is about Rumspringha and the Amish people? I've heard of it, but I haven't seen it. I used to work at a video store and it had maybe the best cover

to grab you in a video store ever, which was an Amish girl on the back of a carriage smoking crack. Oh, that's pretty good. Because it's like they go super hard in Roomsprinca and then they do a bunch of drugs and have sex and they were there for it. But there's a whole ex-amish criminal contingent who sells them the drugs. Like in this banjo. and have sex and, you know, and they grew there for it. But there is a whole ex-omish criminal contingent

who sells them the drugs. Like in this banch show, Banchi. And I really like Banchi. Like in Banchi. Hey guys, let's start this episode. Sure. This episode, are you referring to Anthony Star, the star of Banchi, the TV show?

It's exactly what I'm referring to. ["The Flop House Mini"] Hey everybody, welcome to The Flop House Mini. That's the off week episodes of The Flop House, where we're not stuck talking about some dumb movie that we watched, but instead can talk about whatever we want. Hi, my name's Elliot Kaelin, who's with me tonight? Uh, me, Dan McCoy, I guess. Hey, and it's me, Stuart, number one podcast,

Banche Fan, apparently. Yeah, the only one of us guess. Hey, and it's me, Stewart, number one podcast, Banshee fan apparently. Yeah, the only one of us who knows the plot and stars of Banshee, and we're joined today by a very special guest. We're joined by Joel Church Cooper. Yes, you know him. He's the creator of the IFC series, Brockmeyer. He's been a writer for Hulu's Future Man.

Thank you for being with us today, Joel. Guys, it's real pleasure, you know, first time, long time, and, you know, I just, I love it being a part of the world. I love making this para social relationship into a social relationship. Yeah, it's been two, it's been one sided for too long. Now, by first time long time, you mean first time podcast guest, long time band chief fans. Just about band sheet before the show or during the show, if Jordan leaves that stuff in. We'll see.

Maybe she'll just keep that in her own special vault to listen to whenever she wants to. Yep. Hearing someone talk about Files. Different elements of the TV show Banshee. Yeah. Like how I feel like the third season kind of goes off the rails. But we'll talk about that later. A file folder on her desktop labeled Stuart ReBanshee. on her desktop, labeled Stuart ReBanshee. It's dip in whenever she needs some stew Banshee takes. Now, every now and then, she's just feeling the urge. She just can't quit cold turkey.

She needs to ease off the stew Banshee takes. Now, Joel is here to date for a very important reason. Joel is a successful Hollywood television person and he has worked with several famous people who have done, let's say, less than, there have been in projects that are less than the best. And now Dan and Stu and I, we've long been just, just the class clowns in the back just throwing spitfalls at strangers, you know, just... That's not what I thought you could say. I think we could be like, so Dan's Stu and I, we said. I think we're gonna be like, so dance, dance to tonight.

We've been long been at the peak of Hollywood. We've never been involved in a project where embarrassed by so we would know, not know anything about it. Gwale is suggesting that we're like, like a statler walled orphan, Gonzo trio. And how did we, Gonzo is in the show, Stu? He's not, he's not a side-hackler. Gonzo is one of the stars of the show. He's the ganzo, the great.

He's the in-house artist. Yeah, I was giving you the credit of being the ganzo while Dan and I are statler and walled-orfer. Okay, that makes sense. That makes sense because ganzo also Jewish. So, uh, Is that canon? I mean, we all knew, we all knew that the signs were there,

that the stereotypical Jewish love of being shot out of a cannon and having sex with chickens. I mean, you have a just shy of sexual relationship with chicken, I think. It's entirely, I mean, it's an oral fixation with chickens, because I eat them a lot. I don't know if I'd call it sexual, though it is a sensual pleasure. But anyway, the reason that we have Joel here today is not to talk about my possible Freudian relationship with, and it's not like they're living chickens, Dan. They're all dead-fried chickens, cut up in pieces, which makes it sound worse now that I think about it. Now, Joel's worked some very famous people,

and I was wondering, I want to talk to him about, when you're working with someone who is very famous, who has been in a really famous bad movie or bad TV show, how do you handle it? How do you not just want to talk to them about that all the time? Because the closest I could come to it on the daily show, who's talking to daily show correspondents, and they didn't care about the bad stuff they made, I think I've told the story before about going out to Mio with John Oliver and him saying, he was a group of us and him saying, I'll pick up the check and we said, no, no, no, no, and he goes,

no, I got paid for the love guru today. And we go, okay. And he said, but by my paying this, you are all complicit in the making of the love guru. And we went, no, and that's the closest I've ever been. So Joel, what do you do? How do you handle that situation? Pop quiz hot shot.

Well, you know, the whole thing, I think, with dealing with actors, a little bit, and sort of about their past and stuff, is like, you can't go too hot or too cold. You can't go too fanboy and you can't go like, that was a real stinker, you know? Because either way, they get cringey. Like, they don't, you know, there's certain things they want to talk about about their past or others. But mainly, when I'm working with an actor, I just sort of let them, if they want to talk about their career,

they can talk about their career. I'm not going to press too much. Meanwhile, I'm of course dying inside to talk to them about either the thing that they were in that I loved or the thing that they were in that I thought was the worst piece of shit ever. And I want the juice behind it. But you got to let them come to you a little bit.

I think it was my relationship to, like, I work with Hank as area for, you know, almost a decade on different variations of rock-mire. And it was two years in before I revealed that I was the biggest Simpsons fan all time. Because I just didn't want, I also kind of didn't want him to know he had that power over me, you know? Like, I just wanted to be like, oh, I'm just a guy who just, oh, I know you from things. And then-

Did you pretend you didn't know the Simpsons? Was he like, yeah, when I did the Simpsons, you're like not familiar with that. Yeah, I'm working this house. And I'm like, oh, is this some cartoon that you guessed are done? What is this again? Is this a cartoon that you're just a big fan of?

Because you're like obsessed with these characters, like you're doing voices all the time of them like I get it was it difficult for you To wear a shirt that didn't have the Bart man on it when you went to work every day I wore the Bart man, you know where he was a little off color and didn't have the right number of ridges So I could fool him to thinking that I wasn't a huge fan It just look like Bart's are not necessarily true fan No, you're just you're just close you just had to be closed with whatever clothes you could buy on the street at that moment That was your explanation. Yeah, it was it was it was a it was a prank

I was thrown on the street without a shirt and I had to buy whatever was available from a street vendor. Yeah, yeah. But this kind of is a good sort of introduction to this conversation because one thing about working with actors and they've been in things that you've seen and a lot of times it's the most important thing to you, they're a participation in this. When you think of them, you think of them in this project, right? Like, Hank in the Simpsons. But for them, it's just a gig.

You know, on most movie actors, even if they're the star of the movie, they work 30 days on that. Television show, it's a little something different, but television show, they filmed it that day. Usually very few actors go back and watch it again. Now there's an entire industry of them watching, rewatching the show on podcast form.

That's a new thing. Most times, you know, actors don't go back. And so once I did reel the hang that I was a Simpsons fan, sometimes we would do something and I would quote the Simpsons, sometimes his own dialogue back to them and he'd be like, what is that? What's that from? And I would be like, oh, it's from one of the classic season three

to nine episodes I know by heart. And I just thought that since it, it's, you know, it's from one of the classic season three to nine episodes I know by heart. And, you know, I just thought that since it was you, you would know. And he was like, you know, man, that was like a half an hour in the 90s. And I said, I mean, I, this is on a much different level, obviously. But I'll talk to say a listener at the bar and I'll have a couple of drinks in me. And they'll have a couple of drinks in me and they'll have a couple of drinks in them. You know, this is a different time pre-COVID. And now people start drinking after COVID. Yeah. They'll refer or they don't do it at a bar with me as the main. There

here. But the somebody who'll reference a bit from an episode and I'm like, I got to tell you at least the first 10 years of this show, I was pretty drunk every episode. So did Hank Isary, he's that ex-hease every time? Yeah, he's famously sober, so no. He just, you know, like, it's especially recording jobs, like, you know, and he's a professional, so he'd bangin' out three or four times takes and just move on. And like, there's like famous things like from the Poo Chi episode, the whole thing about fireworks, you know, the fireworks factory gag of like, you know,

like they keep promising they're gonna to the fireworks factory and then they never do and Mill House goes crazy and he goes like, when are they gonna get to the fireworks factory? You know, and so I put that in flop house terms that's like in the movie, glass. And they keep saying they're gonna go to the tallest building in what Pittsburgh building and it never happens.

Philadelphia. They're the same city. Anyway, that's M. Night Shyamalan's fireworks factory, right? So in right terms and in show terms, sometimes I'll be like, and I've probably said, I know I've said it to Hank and I'll be like, it's just like, it's like, it's the fireworks factory. It's the thing we're promising. If we don't do this and I had the hanks, like, I don just like, it's the fire factory. It's the thing we're promising. If we don't do this, and I had, Hank's like, I don't know what you're talking about.

And I was like, there's an episode of The Simpsons called Poochie, you know? I'm like, man, you're on that thing. It's the Poochie episode. It's the most famous one because it's about the business that we work in. And it's very inside baseball, but done very well. People love it because there are scenes

in professional writers rooms at TV shows. No, it is true that like, you know, for someone like me watching The Simpsons, like, that's the most important thing to me because like that's the show I grew up with and watched over and over and for them it's just another day of their life. I remember when like, you know, Elliot and I were working together when John was on the daily show. And like, John would come in at the end of the week and stare up at the cards on the board because he'd be like, okay, what did we do this week? I don't remember. Like it flies out your brain right away. There would be Friday mornings where the interns were the PAs. I don't remember whose job

it was to redo the card bulletin board that laid out what we did on the show. We them too early in the morning and we disemble for the meeting at the end of the week and we look at the board and it would be all new blank cards and we would not remember what happens that week. I think it was a good week. It reminds me of I think George R. Martin has like a couple readers that he asks questions of so he'll be wait, what's his character's hair color again? I better call Susie. Like Susie's read all these books. And like for him, it's just like a thing he made up, you know, so it doesn't, I guess, doesn't have the same level of I hate to write to you too. Oh, Stewart. I don't, I don't think he reads the books himself. I think he just kind of makes them up and writes them and then forgets about him. But he's having an extra crisis right in front of us.

Oh, I mean, to be fair Stewart, it is. It makes them up. Yeah, it's not, it's they're not real chronicles of actual history, you know. And he is a special case where he does forget that like he does have chronic amnesia like Dana Carveen blank slate. So that's why it takes so long for the books to come out. Because every morning it has to be reminded that he writes these books. Well, then I want to make rights these books I don't want any

I don't want any clean slate fans Clean slate, sorry not blank slate clearly. Ellie was thinking you blank check the book the book the book the movie about a kid who gets Dan is clearly thinking of of blank man the novelized adaptation when he said the book Anyway, so so but going back to the bad movies of it all, you know man the novelized adaptation when he said the book. Anyway, so, so, so, but going back to the bad movies of it all, you know, so like, you know, I, I, I, I, I just, you know, I come at this as a fan with everything you start off as a fan, right? And then you want to do it.

And then you try to do it and you usually end up copying the things that you like. And then you get beyond it. And then if you're lucky enough, and you, you know, you, you start working and you start working with people that you respect. And especially if you get an obsession of power, you know, like if you were lucky enough, and you start working and you start working with people that you respect. And especially if you get in a position of power, like if you were on your own show, like I did on my show, Brockmeyer, you can cast people that you've seen in things.

And that's a great thing. And so we cast Amanda Pete in the first season. So lucky to have her. She's such a great actress. It was a part that was really, I sort of envisioned her in mind for. And so to do it, it's great. And, you know, she's on set. And this is my first of, and probably, you know, TV writer for five years, but this is the first job of time as a showrunner. I'm on set

shooting the show. It's great. And she starts talking about Aaron Sorkin and working on Studio 60. And it hadn't hit me yet that like Studio 60, my comedy obsession from, you know, whenever that was out, but in other than I watched obsessively multiple times episodes laughing at the work, because Studio 60 is my kind of sort of bad movie, bad TV show. My personal favorite is really talented people who've gotten to a point in their career where no one says no.

And everyone's just smiling and going, more, do it. Yes. And especially writers who, because I feel like I'm a similar kind of writer and I can sometimes come at things, right? No subtle glances, no. I try to like really write the line that says it or whatever, and which can go wrong a lot of times, and sometimes you're too purple. So I think my own fear of becoming that, I gravitate towards your life itself, your studio 60s.

You know, we can all think of that example of the personal, you know, project that goes wrong. The personal project where the artist is like like this is my statement that I'm making to the world about what is most important to me. And then it comes out and people are like uh, this book of Henry should have stayed close. The Henry is a great one. It's, you know, it's the newest one. And, And so, you know, with Sorkin, he clearly has this obsession with SNL and with comedy, and despite like a real misunderstanding of comedians

and how comedy works, it gets made, what it's like to be around them, what comedians talk about. Like that show had no bits in it. No one did any bits. No. It was just meaningful. And always seriously talking about comedy

as if like it's like for death. We're literally there's a scene halfway through where Nate Cordray is showing his parents around and his mom goes like, so this is where you do the skits and he goes, there's sketches mom sketches and he storms away angrily because in Sorkin's mind that's what comedians do. They take it so seriously. It's the, I mean, Jimmy Fair, I hate the word skit over skit, but I would just internally roll my eyes. I wouldn't let angry. Well, but I feel like in a real comedy place,

he would have said, yeah, yeah, there's Skit's mom and then would have said to his writers, yeah, my mom called it a skit and they'd be like, they'd be like, oh, maybe he's not a skit and they would just be called skitches from that out of the office. And three generations of employees later, they would still be calling them skitches and no one would remember where it came from. I feel like that's the way that. And then the Christmas gift would be like an off brand Disney, like Lilo and Stitch, what do we call a skit? It's like, lollily and skit. And people would be like, this is amazing.

And it'd be like, I don't understand anymore where this can't, it's like when a meme gets turned into something so completely different. And you're like, yeah, yeah, well, that's based on a Japanese cartoon about a dog that pee is on the cat. And you're like, really? Then why?

I don't understand. You'll see a meme and you'll be like, what the fuck is this? And then the first comment is, oh my God, I can't like, this is so me or something. And you're like, I don't, what? How then the first comment is, oh my God, I can't, like this is so me or something. And you're like, I don't, what, how? How did this connect with you so deeply? And then you spend the next four hours

going through rabbit holes trying to figure it all out. And by the end, you find out that George R. Martin just makes it out. I saw Stuart, this isn't how I wanted you to find out. I'm sorry, it just came out of me. I mean, I feel like I went through that though. The first time I saw the butterfly meme, I'm like, okay, I need to see six more of these and then I will kind of get the general idea of what this thing is One is that one Dan describe it describe the meme to me and what this is the best way to communicate them

bookish looking Man he is he is oh yeah, yeah, okay, I know the one you're doing. Yeah, and he has a book I think he actually has a book he is a nerdy looking Yeah, and he has a book. I think he actually has a book. He is a nerdy looking Japanese team boy, but like the handsome Japanese team boy nerd and a butterfly is a lighting in front of him. Yeah. Yeah Label everything in there like it's a fucking Tom and Thomas Nassikartin Yeah, everything gets labeled sure So so my first is like third day on set. I am as she mentioned Sorkin. I immediately have the not so brilliant idea. Oh, I will talk to her about Stu 60

and see if she can give me some like juicy backs, you know, what's it like, whatever, or and maybe she'll, like, you know, maybe she'll get like the, maybe she's like one of the people because it was a, I wasn't alone in my studio. So it's 60 obsession. It was a very comedy writer, improviser, you know, thing that everyone, you know, I watched

every episode. It was a show behind the scenes of SNL that in the end was a three part. They ended the there one season with a three part episode about a kidnap and rescue or Nate Cordrice cast member's brother was kidnapped by the Taliban and the NBC executive had to buy it. And they watched the rescue from the director's booth of the studio because Sorkin at that point just had lost the plot and was like, I don't know, a West Wing idea that I forgot about.

It's a, like you're saying, it is a, it is set in a world where comedy is treated as seriously as the things that on the West Wing were in the newsroom. And like the series opens with the, like a real network style, the head writer, like walks off. He hates how bad this show has gotten. And then they hire a new head writer and there's a press conference where the new head writer is introduced to probably 40 reporters in the lobby of this big like fancy building. And I just remember like when I became head right at the daily show

I don't think they even announced it. Like I think the only like if you didn't watch the credits you wouldn't know there was a new head writer. But you also. But you also. But you also. But you also. But you also. But you also. But you also.

But you also. But you also. But you also. But you also. But you also. But you also. But you also. But you also. But you also. But you also. your big opening episode move. So that was that that I mean, it's also the fact that like, and it was strange that like Mark McKinney was on that show.

And who from one of the greatest sketch shows of all time. And yet like the sketches on it, it was almost like they were like, how do we make these the least funny sketches in the history of the world? Like you're saying sketches, right? I'm not just here now. I'm at sketches because they're named after

Skidch Anderson. I mean, so much. I'm at sketches because their name after Skidch Henderson. I mean, it's about to. Yeah, the sorkin to like good sorkins a lot of fun. Bad sorkin is awful. But like, he can write a joke. He can just he just write it in the context of like these are the characters I've established as the work like he'll he will write a funny line. But then writing about comedy, he seemed to be laboring under the misapprehension that everyone in comedy got into it because they want to make serious points about truth.

And the thing is, comedy can be good at that. People laugh because they recognize the inherent truth and something, but it's not like people get into comedy. We're like, yes, yes, I'm going to expose things. That is... No, no, you get to, you start telling so jokes about serious things when you realize that the jokes about silly things you've been telling

have failed to fill the emptiness inside you, that you thought you could fill with the laughter of others. And you're like, oh, I see, I'll fill it with people nodding and saying, oh, yes, oh, yes. And then you do that and that doesn't fill it either. That's when you start doing just straight dramas. And're like okay when people cry when they see me on screen That's when it'll fill the hole that doesn't do it either and you realize eventually There's only one thing that can fill that hole and that's a doctor implanting a hole filler

Which is something they do There's only one thing they can fill that hole and that's the grave digger above your grave when you die I mean Would you have a fucking shovel So wait we've delayed the this the story to Gravedigger gravedigger should have a plow front so we can move that to it does not and I've this is a hobby worse I know been on a lot that gravedigger should have a plow on a front and it doesn't so I apologize Anyway, Julia saying so she brings up so again

So you're finally gonna spring all those sweet Walk and talk I'm only hope yes, we're just walking in a circle around the sets While people look at papers that have nothing written on them And That was the thing we used to do. And the thing we used to do in the Daily Show Offs is we just pick up a piece of paper off a desk and glance at it and say, this is good stuff.

And that was our studio, 60-bit. But OK, so you're talking to a lot of it. So I'm talking to a lot of it. And I'm really excited to get into this juicy business about the show. And this goes back to the earlier thing about the actors not having the same relationship. she was not aware that there was a group of people who made fun of that show or cared about it still

or cared about to make fun of it. And she was, I would, in a professional way, resistant to the idea that it was bad and that she would be complicit, be kidding on. And it wasn't the greatest move on my part. It was a very early showrunner move of mine. And then immediately I talked to her a little bit and she politely sort of was like,

I'm not going to do that. Why? And then she sort of explained her experience on it and her experience is one of very real and it was one of a working actor of, she got a big part on a big show and it was one of a working actor of, she, you know, got a big part on a big show and, you know, it was an ensemble. It was, the hours were great. Her best friend Sarah Paulson, they got to hang on, you know, set together and hang out in each other's dressing rooms. She got pregnant on the show.

They, they were really cool about her hours and like, and she got to deliver Aaron Sork and monologues and, you know, it didn't work out that great great but she's been in worse things and she's been in better things and like why are you bring it up five years later? It was a real like I just they they said Eli Wallick was an old writer and it was kind of funny that you know he was talking about 1950s comedy and everyone gathered around him like he was an old sage and it was just funny. But don't you think it was crazy that the writer's room was so dimly lit on the show? And there were like six writers. And like SNL is like 30 writers, it's unrealistic.

So she wasn't really playing along. And for a good reason, which was that like, that was a good gig for her. But there was one sequence where, because she got pregnant, they didn't really know what to do, and it sort of threw his storyline off, and so he was like, oh, I'll just get her together,

Bradley Whitford, and it'll be a phone relationship, and she can just do things over the phone. And so as part of that, Bradley Whitford had this one scene where he was like, I love you on the phone. There had been no indication of a relationship between them, he was like, you know what, I realized I love you, and I'm gonna come get ya. And then she was like, okay, it was very aggressive.

And in that sort of a way, like, not the greatest to the female characters in their agency. And she was like, yes, because I was pregnant and they wrote around it. What's your problem with it? And I was like, oh, yeah. That's, oh, yeah. He was just being a good producer and helping you.

I'm sorry, you know? I mean, I think this is a great thing to remember because it's a weird thing for us to say as a bad movie podcast for sure. But, you know, these things are not like things to get mad about. We can all lighten up. But, like, I, no, I mean, particularly in this age of the internet,

you see this so much vitriol, like, why did this person who I, like, an actor, I like do this thing? I feel like I've got this relationship with them that means they won't do this shitty series. And it's like, yeah, but you know, a lot of people are just working actors like they are doing things They're all sorts of factors that go into people's personal lives

The make decisions and you know what like art sometimes is like six on the list Yeah, and also and actors because they're the most visible part of a thing they often get they get this hunt stuff hung around their neck That's not really their fault that it's bad and that they didn't have them I was thinking a lot about how like how cat woman is always gonna be the Halle Berry movie cat woman But like Halle Berry didn't write it or direct it or produce it like she's in it I mean, but it's not fair. It's not like she was the pizza. I've got a lot of work after No, this but it's not like she was but it's not like she was the guiding force behind cat woman.

For her, it was like, do you want to be a superhero movie? Well, how much are you going to pay me to be in the superhero movie this much? Then yes, I will be in your superhero movie. We're like how, and it all gets forgotten eventually, like how a lot of people forget that George C. Scott did a sitcom for one year where he was the president. And it's not something that comes up a lot

when you talk about George C. Scott, but I bet there was a time when he was walking around and someone was like, oh, Mr. Scott, I'm such a big fan of yours. And he was like, oh, what about Patton, the hospital, Dr. Strangelove? He goes, I love that president show that you did. Tell me all the amazing stories behind it. And he's like, I don't know, I did it for a year.

Like I don't, I don't remember. And he said it like George C. Scott. So it was like, I don't know. Because that's what he sounds like, you know. Well, I would say like something, I try to think of too is like sometimes you can be good and do your job well as an actor. And then you just run into the wall

that you're writer and your director sort of put in front of you, right? Like, Kirsten Dunst in Elizabeth Town gets saddled with manic pixie dream girl, right? Because I would argue because she does what Cameron Crowe wants so well. She sort of nails an aesthetic that he's looking for, and the movie is not good,

and you want to talk about another bad movie of when you get to the point where no one says no. And is that a bad performance, maybe, but maybe it's just a good performance of what he wanted it. And so as an actor, you're so vulnerable, because you're the only thing that people see, and you have the least power. The sound guy has more power than you. The camera crew has more power than you.

The writer, the director, the editor. But that's because they have electric power, which is that runs the world. That's that kind of power. That's why they call him Best, which is, you know, that runs the world, you know, there that's that that kind of power That's why they call them best boy because he has the most power on set, you know, he's plugging in he's plugging out He's the he's the guy who literally stands by the switch that turns on the electricity for the set and goes Stay on my good side You're the best boy. Don't turn the power off. You're the best boy They call them best boy because he's the guy who has to run to best by if they need something.

Exactly. That's why they named it best by because there was a bit of best boys running around town going to different hardware stores. Yeah. A little best boys. Yeah. Do you have a foreplugger? As a child, he was bitten by Pete Best and he gains the powers to have almost been

in the Beatles and became the superhero Vest Boy. And unfortunately, when he grew up, people still knew him as Vest Boy, so he still went by that, even though he's an old man now. But this is a good point though, these things are so collaborative that no one should either get all the blame, or even all the credit which I like I don't know I've only I've only ever written on the one show but like there have been times in my life where people assume that I'm a lot smarter than I am because they like the daily show so much I'm like oh no no no most of us are dumb you know Dan goes talk to me for a few minutes yeah and it's like I this is kind of like what I was saying about new mutants, what you're

saying now about how like, I know on your Taylor joy as a great actor from seeing her and other things. So I'm not going to get too mad at her in new mutants for like having an accent that's really silly. I'm going to be more like, if anything, I'm just going to be like, oh, the director should have told her not to do that accent. I'm Jesse Thorne. On the next bullseye, we've got the one and only Ted Danson. We'll talk about his new show, Mr. Mayor, about cheers and about the secret to success in comedy.

I mean, I feel like one of your signature comedic moves at this point in your career is gazing. at this point in your career is gazing. You do a lot of interesting gazing. I also love this gazing. I love that. And if I'm not, I'm gonna start, because that's great. That's Bullseye. Find it on maximumfun.org and PR.org and wherever you get podcasts. Welcome back to FireSide Chat on KMAX with me in studio to take your calls as the dopest

tour on the West Coast, Oliver Wong and Morgan Rhodes. Go ahead, Collar. Hey, I'm looking for a music podcast that's insightful and thoughtful, but like most of it helps me discover art and thin owls that I've never heard of. Yeah man, it sounds like you need to listen to Heat Rocks every week, myself, and I'm Morgan Rhodes and my co-host here. Oliver Wong talked to influential guests about a canonical album that has changed their lives.

Guess like Moby, Open Mike Eagle, talk about albums by Prince, Johnny Mitchell, and so much more. Yeah, what's that show called again? Heat Rocks deep dives into hot records every Thursday on maximum fun. Nothing I was thinking about about this is like you know I used to host bad movie nights at my house and I've been to cat screenings and you know lots of bad movie you know midnight shows and I went with my comedian friends and my writer friends and my improviser friends and I've never known an actor who was into bad movies in the same way. It's not a you know when you go to acting school or acting class and

they make you be an animal for 20 you know minutes or they make you be the personification of regrets. All of these things that are just like ripping your insides open to get you as most vulnerable as you can to get your, you know, whatever guard you have as a natural human being and just destroy it, you then I don't think can go and watch someone on screen be like, they're so stupid. Look at that. They're not even doing it. Wow. I think... They think they're cats. Exactly. They look at that. They were so excited to get that they told their parents

they're dumb. They don't have... You saying this has brought me to a shocking revelation and I don't know. You can all decide whether this is significant or not. I watch a bad movie or TV show and I am mostly inclined if I'm going to sing a lot. Anyone to blame? To blame the writer. And that is my job. So what does that mean? No, I agree. It's, you know, something's the fault. I think

it's usually, especially in TV, which is so much of a writer's medium where the writer's really controlled. It's the only artistic field where the writers have power. So when there's something bad in TV, I've worked on things that didn't turn out great, and we were all in the room, and we were trying our best. For different reasons. When I look back at what went wrong went wrong? Usually it was we were unable We maybe went in the wrong area. This wasn't that funny as funny as we thought it was in the room or We it was funny to us

But we didn't translate it to the actors and ever made it to the page in that way or was a room bit that never should made it to the script You know there's all kinds of things and usually when something that I'm a part of and TV Isn't successful. It's it's our fault of the writers' room. Yeah. I've never really thought about this before, but the way you described acting school is really like being an actor is choosing to be inducted into a cult where they break you down so that you just do anything, like you'll do whatever's on the page, and it's such, it's so like, it's really terrifying to me, and there are times in my life where I'm like,

you know, what if I worked at it? I think I could be like a so-so actor, like I think I could be an okay non-professional community theater actor, but the way you described it, I don't have the guts for that, to just enter in and just become like, you know, this person who,

like in the Marines, where they tear you down completely so you'll just take orders. That seems so frightening to me. Actors, you got what it takes, and I don't. Anyway, here's the script. I mean, you're going to do a love-dum stuff in it, so go do it. I'll stand up for actors now, you know, as I don't know if you guys know this, I'm a credited actor. I do. I'm a tube man PsychoHormann. We're all aware. We're all aware. Well, it's your, so we'll see. You know, like pull your, you know, exposure

self, your vulnerabilities. Of course I did. It couldn't you tell us all in the screen, Dan? You did seem to be just sort of a brain in a tube. I mean, Dan, do you understand how vulnerable you are a sort of a brain in a tube. I mean, Dan, do you understand how vulnerable you are if you are a brain in a tube? Anybody could just knock you over. He doesn't even have a skeleton system. He has nothing. He's the most vulnerable he could be.

Yeah, you're fucking hard out Christian bail. Don't tell him that, Dan. He'll think it's for a part and he'll do it. Yeah, but this is kind of a good segue to another sort of story about talking to actors about bad things, which is that I worked on a Gary Shanling pilot right before he died. And as part of that, I got to hang out at Gary Shanling's

house and sort of talk to him for, you know, we were in the sort of scripting stage, so it wasn't too much. It was probably like three meetings totaling like nine hours. And what he really talked to me about the most was his experiences on Larry Sanders and his experiences on what planet are you from, which is this terrible movie that he made that he wrote and started and that Mike Nichols directed. And he was telling me this because you know he hadn't done a show since Larry Sanders and his friend and agent who I knew Barely but kind of brought me in on this project was trying to get him back out there and trying to get him to sort of He was you know, he'd really found a kind of Zen

Guru-esque lifestyle in his personal life where he was very satisfied and he was very happy. But in his professional life, it was really this thing hanging there of he had such a bad experience of later Sanders. You can watch the documentary about it where essentially his manager stole money from him

for different ways. And then when he sued them, bugged his phone to listen to his conversations for the case, which, you know, this was, it was Brad Gray, who was a big time, Hollywood guy, and they were best friends for years, and it was such a personal betrayal that he just, though, it was, you know, 20 years later, it was just right on the surface. He just couldn't, and then talking about working, and could he do this project with me and could he play this character.

He would just talk about it because it was just like, you know, basically like, can I, is this going to hurt me like that hurt me, you know, like it was still so raw. And he also talked about what planet are you from, what he wrote as sort of his, is starring vehicle to break out from TV to film. And he worked on the script for a long time. And then he hired, it was an amazing cast. It's like John Goodman, and that Benning, Greg Knieer, Ben Kingsley.

It's just a, you know, all-star cast. And what he described is basically, and they're both dead, so I can sort of talk about it, but also talk about other places. But what he talked about is, Mike Diggles just didn't like him, kind of personally,

and didn't think he was a good actor and didn't think this, and didn't, like whatever, I think they thought I was kind of a defending your life, kind of slightly raised comedic sci-fi premise that actually gets in a larger questions and it just wasn't there. And I think Mike Nichols, you know, maybe a weekend was like, oh, this isn't good.

You know what? Let's knock off at 430 and collect our paychecks and go home. And Gary Shanling was like, this is my film. You know, this is the thing that I've been working on forever. And that it's, let's stay till midnight and do 100 takes and improvise. He was, he loved improv. And the fact that my nickelols would just look at him and go like, no, it's never gonna get better than this. And what I've sort of heard about my Nichols is that he was very direct and could be withering. He could be funny and clever and affable,

but if it wasn't, he was direct. And Gary Shanling was like the most sensitive person you will ever meet in a way where it was like his superpower If you think about Larry Sanders like what that is so good about it is like the little Social interactions the the the sort of toxic masculinity how it you know how it shows itself in a gesture in a way of how ego gets punctured These are really hard concepts to put into a script. And he was just, he would pick up anything. And whenever you talk to him, he was always, he would always have the conversation with you you were having. And then he would, he would also

be having the conversation about the conversation you were having. So he'd be like, okay, so you took what I said like this, but actually I not didn't mean like that. And I could see by what you're doing now. And he was always dead on, right? So here's this human membrane that is like picking up everything and then you have this comedy legend who was like, you don't got it kid. And so he would describe like having panic attacks and like not wanting to come out of his trailer and it was not something that was like,

you could be like, yeah, but it was dumb, right? You know, it was like, what he was like. Yeah, but it was just a job. Yeah, yeah, but it was like a bad movie, but like, you was just a job. Yeah, but it was a good bad movie. But like, you know, but you did good things and now it's a bad thing, like so what? It was like, I spent years of my life on this to be tortured by my hero is how he sort of phrased it.

And I'm sure my knickles would have his own version. I wasn't in his living room, so he didn't tell me that. But you know, if I look at it. The Mike Knickles version would be like, did I make that? Oh yeah, I guess I did. Yeah, nice guy, Gary Shanley. Yeah, anyway, like, I look at the Mike Nichols version would be like, did I make that? Oh, yeah, I guess I did. Yeah. Oh, yeah, nice guy.

Gary Shanley, anyway. Yeah, yeah. Like, I get the way that you meet your high school bully and he's like, hey, nice to see you, man. And it's like, you were. Like, I have nightmares about you and he's like, yeah, I don't know, high school, am I right? So what do you do in these days?

Like, I just don't remember it. Yeah. I mean, I think, I think Mike Nichols has done what he did, 30 movies. Like, you know, he did some stinkers. And I think he knew the feeling of it. And he was just like, I mean, I think I think Mike and Gullis has done what he did 30 movies like, you know He did some stinkers and I think he knew the feeling of it and he was just like I'm old this one isn't it Let's get through it and yeah, he's like he's just shouting. He's like we got a wolf on our hands This is a wolf everybody. All right, let's get this done. It's a wolf and you know Maybe if they had done the work that Gary wanted they could could have rescued it. Or maybe I'm probably leading to the Mike Nichols at all. It was a misspegotten premise that was sort of never going to get there.

And, you know, going home at 430 is always nice. But clearly, like, but Shanling, like, he just, and he brought it up, I think, because we were working on something, and because it was like, I was trying to coax him back into the world of acting and TV. And he was very happy to be a guru to so many powerful people, you know, to Judd Happetow, to John Favreau, where these people would show him everything they were doing. So he had this, so he still was feeling artistically heard and important and he was so happy in a sort of personal life with the basketball game and he had great friendships. And like, and there I was asking him to like take the leap again and he was telling me,

but I got hurt so bad. Like how do I know you're not going to hurt me in his own way? And the last thing he ever said, he died a little bit later, we ended a meeting and he was looking at me sort of critically and he said, I'm uncomfortable with your certainty, with your level of certainty. And I said about what? And he said about everything. I just said to my friends, I said anecdote,

and they were like, that is the most accurate thing anyone has ever said about you of like, that is a thing. Like when I pitch and when I talk, I'm very certain, and then someone pitches me the better idea and I go, you're right, that's better. Now I'm certain you have the thing, and that's gonna be the thing. Like when I pitch and when I talk, I'm very certain. And then someone pitches me the better idea and I go, you're right, that's better. Now I'm certain you have the thing.

And that's gonna be the thing. But it was sort of a, it spoke to his ability to sort of look you and really see your essence and to just nail who you were as a person. And that, and he was telling me basically like, I'm unsure of you. And we were still in the sort of pilot stage

and then he died the next week. And you know, but he's still left me with something. I mean, he was just known for that. And so I'm not telling the story to sort of to shed on Mike Nichols, you know, who's a genius and has done some of the best weeks of all time, or to shed on Gary Shanley who did arguably the best comedy of all time

and maybe two of the top 10. These are great artists who did something that didn't work. And, you know, from Magnicles, it was probably just a job. But for Gary Shanling, it was Wounded Care's whole life, you know. Very rare is the actor who takes a paycheck gig and then doesn't invest something of themselves in it. And he was the kind of, he was a writer actor,

so everything he did, he put everything into. And so when it failed and it was bad and it was mocked, it hurt him so that he was still telling me these stories 20 years later and it was like it happened yesterday. You were basically in the position of, you were the government agent who shows up at his cabin where he's chopping wood and he's got a long beard and you're like, we need you for another mission and he's like, no, I can't do it again. And then, but instead of going out for the mission, he has you sit down for like three hours and kind's like, no, I can't do it again. And then, but instead of going out for the mission, he has you sit down for like three hours

and kind of like, like lays the whole story out for you so that you know how badly he got hurt on that last mission. And then you walk away and you're like, yeah, maybe you shouldn't, yeah, oh, okay. I totally get why you don't wanna do this mission now. I mean, hearing all this makes me feel kind of guilty for basically everyone involved in any movie we've made fun of over the years.

I'm sorry Chris. I'm sorry Chris White. I'm sorry. You know, name another person. Name another person. Well, you see all the movie we did in the past. Yeah, I guess that's true. I mean, I guess you guys do a nice job of separating the actors from it, even in your

new mutants episode last week. Yeah, and Taylor Joy took a shot on Accent and I didn't see the move, but it seemed to be guys they didn't really hit. But you acknowledge that she's a great actress and probably the next big thing that it's gonna be in all these great movies and Queen's Game, it's great.

So I think you guys do a nice job of keeping it focused on where the mockery should be focused on. Well, I hope so. I mean, even the screenplay stuff, though, I say that I'm more inclined to blame the script, but you know, almost all of these movies, unless it's something like food fighter, whatever, some like a fringe nonsense.

Like almost all these movies are from people who have done work before and will do work, good work again. You know like like I don't want to make fun of I don't want to like dismiss someone unless they're a miserable human being like on the basis of like oh maybe they've had a couple of stinkers in their professional life I mean there but for the grace of God. I know, but if you only let yourself that, you just be just Chevy Chase movies, right?

And like, you know, that's a short podcast. That's, that's true. It's a simple podcast. Chase in our own tales with that one. It's what's called Chase and Chevy. Oh, and you just, I mean, that's a lot on the nose, but okay, welcome to episode five of Modern Problems, where we end real modern problems. We're talking about modern problems again. Join us on our

other podcast cops and podcastersons. So I think the other thing to keep in mind also is that like there's a certain I mean the thing that I loved about cats the most joyful movie going experience I had in the year 2020. Which again, not saying that much since I only went to the theater twice, I think in the year 2020, but the other one was one spot of time in Hollywood, which I also loved. So like that, you know, but that the, to see someone try so hard for something big and fail at it, is it gives you kind of like the reverse hope of like oh this is better than living in a world where every movie was

just kind of like mediocre where every movie was just kind of like the kinds of thrillers that were churned out in the 90s where it's like okay this is fine okay oh another one of these great and now oh now the secretary of defense is gonna tell them why they need to save all those hostages okay now they're doing it and Harrison Ford says get off my plane and the movies over okay that was acceptable like you want to live in a world where people are trying and failing because it means that they are also

trying and sometimes succeeding uh... and rather than not trying the extravagant foolishness of it is it here i mean cats is case to the fact that it is that theory. I mean, cats is case too. The fact that it is that you can, in every frame of that strange creature, you're like, oh, the people making this really cared about cats. Like they really wanted to do this right.

And maybe there is no way to do this right on film, but they tried it. And all the performers, like you can't fault them in that one because they're doing exactly what you're talking about, Joe, where they're like, yeah, I'm making myself vulnerable and I'm doing this role. Like, I'm gonna be this cat. I'm not gonna wink at the audience and be like,

isn't it dumb that I'm rubbing my head on another person's head and we have CGI for all over our bodies? Yeah, I'm not gonna billy-zane my way through this movie. Yeah. Although, no, I wanna see billy-zane's cats where he does all the parts. Wow. But, you know, like, I want to see Billy Zayn's cats where he does all the parts. Wow.

But, you know, I want every movie can have the passion of cats or Vel Kilmer's Mark Twain show that he used to do. Like then, yeah, I want everything to have that passion. Well, you're like, this is not working, but I feel like you are entering a sort of mystic, ecstatic state at how much you are trying to make it work. Yeah, and, you know, cats was, I saw it opening night at the arc light at a 10 p.m. screening with about half,

a crowd with about half gay. Everyone was familiar with the musical. Everyone was a little drunk and kind of knew what we were in for. I was sitting next, we were, I was a group of people who love bad movies. I was sitting next to a guy who do a post for a living. And they would, we whispering in my ears, like, look in the back right corner, it's not rendered.

And everyone's drunk, everyone's singing along, everyone's shouting, I was, I kept shouting, what size are they? That was my bit, which was killing, because they kept, you know, they're changing from scene to scene. And then a sort of collective mania hit by the time scramble shanks came around and we were all drunk.

Everyone started standing and stomping to scramble shanks and we the collective delirium and I've been chasing that high you know that was I had that about two months before the pandemic and I don't know that that was the happiest I have been. I have, you know, maybe never I can remember being physically in my body. So like, you know, I can't, whatever they did to do that, thank them. I think every one of them. I think Rebel Wilson, James Gordon, for the improvs that clearly should not have been included, but Tom Huber thought they were funny. I think I think I don't want

to be like, like suddenly turning cats into woodstock and pick, oh man, you had to be there. But the thing is, there was something really special about St. Cats, like early enough in its run that not everyone knew how crazily, catastrophically strange. It wasn't intended, catastrophic, dude. But if you saw it early on, like there would be a good portion of the audience who was there to see cats because they thought cats was gonna be good.

And then just like the feeling of like, as everyone realized the movie they were watching but still like sort of like overtime gave into it and we're like you know what this is a better experience than what I originally intended to have. You know in 2019 in the movie Hustlers there's this amazing moment this like pure moment of joy when Usher shows up at the strip club. And little did I know that 2020 would top that moment of joy with a railroad cat just

showing. There's something about that moment when Skimblechank shows up, it's the moment every movie wants to have when the movie is starting to like lose a little bit of steam and then suddenly there's this huge shot in the arm and you're like, what? How do I have more energy than when the movie started? Like what is going on? He's so he's so but she's got the little cat mustache. He's got the little. Yeah, the spenders and the idea the idea of like he's the railroad cat. We got to make him look as much like a Mario cat as possible.

Like if Mario was a cat, he's skimble shanks. You immediately got to go Google skimble shanks nude to see how muscular his fucking butt is amazing. It's insane. Everyone, everyone listening, go, go look out, go find skimble shanks, but on the internet. There's a few pictures out there. It's amazing. Actually, I had it, not on your work computer.

Early on in the pandemic, when cats first came out to buy, I immediately bought it. And then my wife, who I think I went to one screening with, didn't really get the whole thing. It's not a huge back movie fan. It does not like cats. It was not the bonding experience. I wanted it to be. But my five year old really liked it sincerely.

And it was like the perfect, like that's who should like cats. Perfect pun intended. Perfect. And so, and so like, it was about maybe three weeks or four weeks into the pandemic. In quarantine, we're initially, you know,

the first wave of going crazy. Me and her, we were watching it together and then we would both go nuts when Skabel Shanks came out. But it's like it's, and there's something about how in the movie, in the movie when he shows up, the other cats are like Skimble Shanks, fucking Skimble Shanks is here, like Skimble Shanks here, like they can't, they cannot get to themselves.

I think he's after a couple of like more dad beat numbers and like he like almost literally burst through the wall like the cool eightade man like it just appears like up Like in a window or something like hey skimble shanks That's one of the internal lied one of the few internal logic problems with cats the movie is Clearly Skimble shanks should win the fucking contest of the jellicle ball. Is there a better cat? I've seen all the songs the whole movie is one by one the cats come out and see like i'm dimple dangle and i do the dimple dangle dance and you're like okay and then this fucker comes out blows a roof off the place and it's

no consideration for the jolka ball he should be in the goddam hot air balloon like him too much he's no he's here's my theory about scramble shanks scramble shanks has been chosen to go to the heavy side layer so many times that he has taken himself out of consideration. And he just shows up to perform as like the half time show to be like, yeah, I could win again, but I don't even want it.

Take it. I just want to show you that I could win. If I try. He's just been reincarnated a thousand times like the Dalai Lama. Like he just keeps going up and coming back down and just to like be one among us. I like to bring his mustache to it.

They bring his mustache and some other mustache is to a kitten and they have the kitten kind of see which one it paws that. And when it picks his mustache, they know that this is the reincarnated, re-cardated Dolly's skin full shanks. They put a little railway in front of them and he just starts tip tapping away and they're like, there we go. We have found our skin full shanks. There's a moment when they're all on the train where all the other people who are in all the other catch from nuts, Skimble Shanks go, woo, woo, and you can see on that moment, even the characters in Cats are looking at each other

being like, can you believe we're at what a good time we're having? Like, this is like, like, they realize the movie has gone insane and they're loving it. Like, yeah, that was all improv. Everybody was just super into it. Well, that's the thing about Catch the Movie. If people don't know, it's an all improv movie. They just got together on the set and they just made it out.

Well, Alie, you know, last year around this time, you made a joke about having a yearly cats show. And I think we kind of did it. I'm sorry, Natalie. I'm sorry, Jenny, that we didn't have your back. And also, and also, Hallie, who is very mad that she was not on the cats episode. And I said, you'll be on it when we talk about cats again. And also, and also, Halley, who is very mad that she was not on the cat's episode. And I said, you'll be on it when we talk about cats again,

and apparently it's not on yet. Listen, there's more. There's more. I don't want to take away any of anyone's opportunity to talk about cats. You guys can do another special episode. I think the audience will support it. I don't know.

After you talk about scramble shanks, you have to have the chocolate cake. You're not going to go back for the appetizer. There's no, we're not going to go back you talk about scimble shanks, you have the chocolate cake, you're not going to go back for the appetizer. Like, there's, there's, I got, we're not going to, we're not going to go back and talk about Buster for Jones after we gave it all up on scimble shanks. It's not fun to be an actor in a bad movie, especially when you care, right? And so I wrote a pilot with Toe for Grace that we saw, but never got made. And, and we were talking about things and, and he sort of talked about it's similar to the Gary story of like just how

He's like tofer as a hardcore nerd like you know, he likes all the nerdy comic book stuff He like he likes all of the you know, he does Stewart and this might you know be of your interest He does recut movies and is in his and an avid in his basement. That's what he does. So he has a one movie version of the prequels that he cut down. And when we were working together, he was working on a one movie version of the Hobbit, which I was very excited about because I was like, that's probably the best version. The one without the just watching sores of the barrel. The barrel seems exactly like.

Just two hours of them singing while they throw plates around Bilbo and he goes, huh, what, huh? Just a half an hour of the barrels getting stuck and then having to like push against a wall to get back down on the river. So yeah, so he, you know, that's what he does for this fair time. He, you know, I'll, another little secret behind the business.

Very few actors know how to work in Avid and do it for their own amusement. And like he does it because he just like, he wants, he likes to, he just likes old classic movies and he likes comic books and he likes, you know, the sci-fi stuff and like genre and like That's one of the things we were we were working on a genre thing and like that's where his passion is and him getting to be in Spider-Man 3 Was like a dream come true for him and he just talked about the excitement of Getting the role if we all remember back to those housey on days spider-man 2 was the pinnacle of of genre cinema at the time

So to be the new villain and the third one he was just Yandes, Spider-Man 2 was the pinnacle of genre cinema at the time. So to be the new villain and the third one, he was just, I think possibly still it might be my favorite superhero movie. Yeah, still my favorite superhero movie. Either that or Superman 4, but for different reasons. And I think coming off too, there's no way you think 3 is going to be the movie that comes off of that movie, you know? And so he was just, he was so excited.

You certainly, you certainly don't think, hmm, I think Sam Remy is gonna completely lose interest in these characters. And you know, what he basically, without getting in too much detail, what he basically described is like he showed up to set and like his excitement was not matched by the rest of the crew and cast and director and it just instantly was sort of like oh this is one of those slugs and then you're like well maybe it'll cut together like you know butter and like it'll be great and then you go to the premiere and you go oh no it's not and then you know now when they do the listicles of like worst No, no, it's not. And then, you know, now when they do the listicles of like worst comic book characters, it's like the picture of him with the tips. And like the tips weren't his idea, the frosted tips,

you know? It was like, he was like, this is my interpretation of Venom. Sony, you know, you go with me or I bounce. Look, look, I've done a lot of work on my own preparing to play Venom before now. I've just been slathering myself with oil every day to feel what it's like to have a symbiote covering your body. And let's, we're just gonna do, like, it must feel, I mean, one Venom is such a super cool character.

And to be like, I get to play this character and the director of the movie is like, yeah, I don't care. Maybe he just falls out of the sky next to Spider-Man. And then, and that's how the costume gets to him and jumps on him and you're like, are you not gonna put any extra effort in? Like it literally just falls out of the sky and lands next to him. Okay, I guess, but then my character, he gets a lot of attention, right?

No, the first time we see you as men, I'm your literally just gonna be kind of like walking across a wall in an alleyway. So I get a big reveal, not really. The audience is gonna be like, oh, did I just see Venom for the first time? I didn't realize, hold on a sec. Portofer.

And I think it's useful for people who love bad movies and people who love the podcast, just to remember that most times people are busting their fucking ass, even on something they know isn't very good. Just be out of professional, a sense of professional duty, and a sense of the passion for the art, and then a thousand things out of your control happen,

and it becomes Spider-Man 3. Yeah. So you're saying we should laugh all the harder at them when they fail, knowing how much of themselves they've invested in this. Yeah, it's a real accurate representation of how bad they are. They were really trying to run and they tripped. That's what's funny. If they were just walking, it's not as funny.

I think you're making a good point. It's something we should all keep in mind as we try to be the best people we can be and the best movie fans we can be. And Dan and Stu, I think we should keep that in mind as we go on be the best people we can be and the best movie fans we can be. And Dan and Stu, I think we should keep that in mind as we go on to the next movie we're gonna do an episode about which is Hillbilly Elegy. Uh oh. Fuck, fuck, fuck, fuck.

Yeah, it is, as our guests observed earlier, you're getting late over here. So we should unfortunately wrap up and we will thank you very heartily for being on here and I will ask you if you have anything to plug shortly thereafter, Elliot quickly plugs our live show which is the evening of when this is coming out. Well I think you just did a great job right there. That's the evening.

Somebody just hit the fucking nitrous button. Take it, it's will be available. Take it, it's will be available right up until showtime at, what is it, the Flophouse podcast.simpletics.com, I think. Is that right, Elliot? Yes, podcast, simpleTicks.com, I think, is that right, Elliot? Yes, Dan, that's right. Tonight, the night this episode is released, if you're listening to it the day after it was released, sorry, you missed it, but maybe you didn't allow me to explain.

We'll be watching and talking about, well, we already watched it. We'll just be talking about Teen Wolf. That's right, Teen Age Wolf, the movie that has everything. Novelty T-shirts, basketball, a very sweaty Michael J. Fox, and incredibly unsafe use of a van. That's right, we'll be talking about Teen Wolf tonight, Saturday, February 6th, that's today at 9 PM Eastern, 6 PM Pacific, it's gonna be like a full flop house live show,

there's gonna be presentations beforehand, we're gonna have an audience Q&A at the end, somehow if we can get the tech to work, find out and see. We got a couple other special surprises, we got some more segments in this one than we usually do. I think you're gonna like it. It's only $10 a ticket.

And if you invited a hundred people over to your house and you just paid for one ticket, we can't stop. You please don't. But, you know what, do I don't? No, no, no, no, it's a super spreader. You know, I mean, it's now a bad time to invite a hundred people over to your house. We don't be responsible for that.

But from a financial point of view, just do whatever. So anyway, that's the flop house dot simpleticks.com. Don't put the WWN. Remember we told you that's gonna mess up that URL. Where are you mentioning it now? I'm sorry. It's mixed just go to the flop house dot simpleticks.com tickets will be available basically up to the time the show is on and if you cannot watch it tonight, that is okay. The video will be archived for one week. One week will be ableived for one week, one week, we'll be able to archive that video and you'll be still have access to it.

So by that ticket, watch it, we're talking Teen Wolf, it's gonna be a lot of fun, and I got a special shirt just for the occasion. So if you wanna see that shirt, you better go to theflophouse.simpletics.com. And I also wanna say thank you to our guest. Thank you, Joel Church Cooper for coming and spending this time with us.

And for teaching us a valuable lesson about not being such dicks, we talk about bad movies. And yeah, as I promised, also, if you have anything to plug, feel free. Sure, you can follow me on Twitter. It's Church Cooper on Twitter. And you can follow me on Letterbox,

which I am really enjoying. If you all you film nerd fans out there, it kind of has the feel of what Twitter used to be, only even more micro-selective, you know, it's just a fun time of people talking about their criterion channel. So if that, or you can follow Dan McCoy and find out what movies he's watching stoned.

I agree. I agree. It's a candy. Which I like to do. So I join me on And it's been real pleasure to listen to you guys. And it's been nice just to hear the sounds of people who are watching this video. And I'm really excited to see you guys and I'm really excited to see you guys

and I'm really excited to see you guys and I'm really excited to see you guys and I'm really excited to see you guys and I'm really excited to see you guys and I'm really excited to see you guys and I'm really excited to see you it's been real pleasure to listen to you guys. And it's been nice just to hear the sounds of people having fun and friends talking, which is something that used to be a huge part of my life.

And now I kind of only live ficariously through the friendships I hear in podcasts. And it's wonderful that I still get that chance. So I want to thank you guys for that. Thank you, that's as touching as it is say. I appreciate it. Alright. But we're all living in that world.

That's a world we're all in right now. Let's sign off. Thanks. Once again to our guest, Joel Church Cooper. I'm Dan McCoy. I'm Stuart Wellington. I'm Elliot Kaelin and our guest has been... Joel Church Cooper.

Good night everyone. Bye. Bye. I'm Elliot Kaelin and our guest has been... Jolture Scooper. Good night everyone. Bye. Bye!