The Flop House - FH Mini 31 - Stu Sees Saws

Episode Date: June 12, 2021

Stu's always asking if we'd like to play a game, so it was probably only a matter of time before he'd turn to the topic of Saw. He recently ran the series, and wants to talk to Dan and Elliott about it. And what would any Saw-related media be without a twist? In this case, a radical shift in the episode after the ads. We hope you enjoy!

Hey there, welcome to another Vloghouse Mini. That is right, it's a mini episode of the Vloghouse Podcast, a podcast about bad movies. Is tonight's mini going to be about bad movies or is it going to be about something else entirely? You better listen and find out. My name is Stuart Wellington, and I'm joined by... Hey there, it's me, Dan McCoy. Wow. Hey, it's Miele Kaelin continuing the theme of all of us saying hello as if we were recognizing you at a party, but not really remembering where we know you from. Hey, you.

Just don't call somebody big guy. I've gotten that before and never, never makes me feel good. I've never gotten that. Never got it. Never look at big guy. I've gotten that before and never never makes me feel good. I've never gotten that never Big guy never gonna call big guy. What do you get called? pocket mouse Yeah, skinny smalls. Yeah, sporto. Yeah, sporto. Redo Yeah, Momane Don Ponda, baby Rideau. Yeah, Momane Don, Ponda Beba, Sniggle Tooth, a man of man, Chief Chirp, really any Star Wars character I've been called. Yeah. Now, listeners are probably assuming you guys just going to continue naming Star Wars characters for the rest of the episode. And I could do it. You mean

99. Let's get into the droids. Everybody. Yep. This, yeah, this episode is not a living wookieed idiot. Now it's this may go on. Let me just say, that is something that we did in the car this past weekend where my son wanted to see how many, he wanted to see how many Harry Potter characters he could name. And then I bet him I could name more Star Wars characters. And then eventually he told me to stop naming Star Wars characters. Yes. That's what the listening audience has been trying to do to their phones for years.

But that's a thing. You don't, you don't hear. See, the first, the first couple of Star Wars characters, it's charming. Everybody loves that shit. Then you get a little bit deeper and people are like, oh, yeah, I guess I remember that. And then after a while they're like, fuck, stop, dude. Yeah, there was a lot from my wife of, you're making this up.

You're making that one up. I said, nope, Kalladi Mundi is a real Jedi elder. Kiyadi Mundi, yeah. And, uh, yeah. Kiyadi Mundi, that's what it is. And did she, how did she react when you mentioned Elan's sleigh's bagano? It was, but it was around the time I got to kit Fisto

that she said, none of these are real. Yeah. Oh, oh, he's real. And he's incredible. He and he's spectacular. Yeah. So let's do what are we going to do today? So, uh, guys, what do you like to?

Do you want to play a little game? Sure. Okay. George, do you serve Ed reverb to your voice just then? Jordan, go back, make sure that sounds super fucking scary. Cause you know what? That's right. Tonight we're doing an episode of

Saw Talk, Talking Saul on the Sock Walsh. And the Saw, Saw the Madaguna universe feature as talked about by me, Sarah Wellington and my co-hosts. Dan McCoy. And Elliott Salon. Oh wow, you're already getting into the- Just me a while, like, sawdomatic.

Didn't like, you know, sawdum addict. Hit my brain immediately as what it was. I mean, by the time he said saw and saw calls, I was on board Dan. And he says saw pun. Uh huh, now, and yeah, and, I mean, we're all son of files.

Uh, and I just a little bit of background for anybody who has not been, uh, anxiously following my Twitter feed over the last couple of weeks. Uh, I, uh, I recently threw up my back again. It's a reoccurring problem.

Please do not write any email to Dan to give me advice on how to take care of my back. I have already have a physical therapist and it's going much better now. But I was kind of out of commission for a little bit and I did what any right thinking person would do. That's right. While lying on the floor and pain, I made the decision to watch all seven of the main franchise saw movies in order because they're all on HBO Max. As if you didn't watch the side movies like Sawlow. Yeah, a Saw Wars story. Yep.

Do we have other ones? I bet we can think of some. Rogue Saw. Well, there's also the Saw Walk adventure, the battle for Endor, yeah, sure. Yeah, it goes, yeah, it's more. Yeah, see, when you said Saw Low, I thought you were talking about

Salow 120 days of Sodom, but. I mean, it's possible he was. Yeah, I was talking about the Woody on thumb, sweet and low down. Mm, it's called either saw low down or sweet and saw down. Yeah, well, saw and low down or sweet and saw down. Yeah, well, in any case, let's move on. Starting Saw and Pen.

I think what had actually happened was I started watching the first Saw movie because spirals and theaters now or was in theaters, I don't remember. And time is not a fixed continuum. It could be all at the same time. You're like Billy Pilgrim, you know, experiencing all at once. Yeah. Thank you, Elliot. continue it all at the same time you're like Billy Pilgrim yeah you're just doing it all at once yeah thank you Elliot so and I I

did a Instagram live where I made the I made the bold claim that I was going to run the series and and watch all the movies and you know what I actually did it and we're gonna talk about it today here on the population story now Dan we talk this is this is Stewart saw Mitzvah. He finally did it. He watched all the movies. Now luckily, as I explained in the email when I was talking about this mini with you guys,

I mentioned we just got to make sure we watch all seven movies before tonight. So I'm really eager to hear about your favorite traps. I'm sure you do. I think you may have gotten our text chain mixed up with maybe a different text chain that Dan and I are not on. I do actually, I will say that I did see that Stuart was doing this and I'm like, for some dumb reason,

seeing as I didn't even like the one song movie that everyone seemed to think was the good one. I was like, oh yeah, I'll do that too. Why not? I also like to waste my life. And then I bailed after number three. So what? Yeah.

What did you, well, we had actually talked about Saw three here on the flop house many, many years ago. I think it was one of our, it was like our third or fourth episode. Do not go. Please do not go back and listen to it. I'm sure I said something horrible on it. So please I'm the fucking worst you said you're seeing you're very sorry Thank you. Yes mature show in those days. Elliot is yeah, I feel like

Elliot's really getting to the spirit of the game. Dan you gotta catch up or you're gonna get your head saw it off So That's like So, uh, that's like, just like John Kramer, aka Jigsaw, the Jigsaw killer, I wouldn't actually be sawing your head off. It would be you not succeeding in the trap that I set for you. So, right, right. No court could convict me. No court would. It's not his fault. Yeah. Uh-huh. So that's, that's how Rube Goldberg got away with all those murders. So, uh, a writ of habeasaw. Yep. So, I mean, it's barely upon, but sure, okay. Yeah. I don't know. Dan, you're a son of a-ile. Why don't you, uh, for those at home who maybe are not familiar with

the Saw series, can you give us a quick, uh, quick rundown of what the Saw series is all about. Saw nopsis if you will. Thank you. It's about there's, again, a not killer named Jigsaw who not only is named Jig Kramer's name is Jeremiah Ignatius this Saw. merely a kidnapper and torture of humans. The older traps. He takes, like he's dying, he's a terminal, he has terminal cancer, is that what is, and he believes that because of this, there are people out there who are squandering their lives or being evil and that's bad too. Honestly, like his motivation is pretty fuzzy to me even though it seems like it should be pretty simple, a pretty simple like I'm teaching you a lesson thing, but it doesn't seem like there's a lot of consistency to his ethos anyway, because he wants to teach these people lesson he puts them in these death traps where they have to make a

choice and the choice usually is you know like will I go through this painful thing to preserve my own life and thus appreciate it more and Everyone of these movies has like at least two more twists that it needs They've got weird chronologies Later on jigsigsaw, or sorry, John died. John was dying. Yeah. He has passed away and, you know,

he has accolades who are doing that, killing. And soccolites. Yeah. Anyway, that doesn't mean that actor Tobin Bell doesn't show up for flashbacks, because these movies are full oh flashbacks. Now the first one, yeah, I mean, this was the, it came out in 2004, rewatching it, very 2004 experience.

It is, it was made like, exactly. It's crazy. The, it's, it's just that it like, it's, it's so heavily edited. It's super choppy for a series of movies where the horror of it is that these people are trapped in a situation and going to die. They're edited to the edge of their life. At no point actually feel like you're stuck in the situation. I'm sure it's just a disguise, the fact that they had literally like no money to make at least the first one.

And then the layer ones, when you think they'd have money, it feels like every single movie, they didn't actually like, they just let the cast do their own hair and makeup and show up and their clothes from home. But you know, who knows? So.

Well, also, I mean, having rewatched the first one, I mean, what you say is true, but also like, it is positively, you know, restrained as filmmaking. Oh, yeah, yeah, compared to some of the later, the later abuses of editing. So yeah, the first one, obviously, the whole, the premises, people get kidnapped. They have to go through a series of challenges and there's like clues. It's basically like an escape room mixed with, I don't know, like an episode of like a really grizzly

episode of Fear Factor, where Joe Rogan makes you dig out your own eyeball to get the key to take the bear trap off your head. So the first movie ends basically everybody's dead, huge hit, everybody loves this movie. It's the biggest deal. So of course, it has to make more. I mean, everyone ends up dead.

How is it not Hamlet? Tell me, what's the difference between that and Hamlet? That's, I mean, it feels like Carrie L.A. was brings energy that would not be, that would not be out of place in a Hamlet. Like he is, he is chewing every ounce of that scenery, which is just a tiny little bit like basement bathroom. So it's not that much to chew. No, no, but he chewed it all. Not a lot of scenery.

Now, how would you compare it to his Academy Award nominated role as Bobby Wobbly in the UG Love in the Cleveland Adventure? Maybe. Or Big Blown Adventure? Miss remembering some details about that, Elliot. I mean, he didn't mean, he was just nominated was just nominated well he doesn't does he saw his leg off in uglifes

i mean he is always wobbling maybe it's because it's like is not so i was wobbling now eliot uh... what do you think when you got out of the movie theater back in two thousand four fresh out of seeing uh... a screening of saw uh... actually did not see it in theaters. I have to admit. Did you see it at home on home video? I saw it on home DVD video.

Yes. So I was taking bets with charlena so whether or not you'd ever actually watched SAW because it doesn't necessarily seem like something that would grab your attention. It's not an old movie. I like horror stuff. And I remember at the time, there were a couple of movies

like that and hostile and like jeepers creepers where people would be like, they're back, kind of low budget, like B movie thrills are back. Like it's great. And then I'd watch them and be like, I mean, these are kind of like the not that B movies I enjoy, you know. So I did of like the not that the movies i enjoy now uh... so i was i did not continue the saga

on the subject further chapters eight no problem uh... so after after the first movie they made a sequel a sock was i as i've already previously mentioned dandy was saying that named after a sock the uh... pokemon character and the uh... the reoccurring character, of course, John Kramer. And one of the one of his, the Jigsaw's previous victims, the character named Amanda. But the main character in that movie is played by Donnie Walberg.

He plays a police officer. Whoop big surprise. That's what he always does. Now, Dan, you were saying that this was a repurposed script, or is there any other reason why it's super messy and extra muddy? Yeah, I, during my brief joining you down the path of saw, that was when there was only, that was when there were two footsteps in the sand. It was later on, it wasn't because I was carrying you, it was just because I left. So it's just a foot steps and then Dan saw it off his own legs,

and that's why there's only one set of footsteps after that. And there's definitely one set of footsteps because I watch most of these movies while trying to recover from my back pain by walking slowly on a treadmill. I just realized also we kept saying foot steps. I'm going to say footprints course of course, but yes, I did the research and Yeah, this was this was a repurposed script for another movie much much as say

Your later die hard or like how like Remlins 2 was originally not aremlins movie and they just made it into one by adding more Gremlins Because originally only had some Gremlins Yeah, they weren't the main characters. Yeah, but maybe that's why I'm so confused by the philosophy behind John Kramer. Yeah, and I feel like I'm gonna I mean I might ruffle some feathers amongst the the the the son of files out there, but I ruffle some feathers amongst the, the, the, the son of iles out there. But I think Saw 2 is the worst of the franchise. I certainly the worst of the ones I saw. So Saw saw saw saw. Yep, exactly. Saw 2. I don't need to go to and do it. The traps are kind of boring, not particularly exciting.

There's flashbacks and the whole thing kind of ends in the same place that the first one ended, which is Donnie Walberg's stuck in that basement bathroom again, like, whoop, we're there again. So saw three begins whole new dude, a dude gets the, but this, the interesting thing about saw three is the guy who gets it's, it's one person who's captured and he has to go through like a carnival fun house where he is, he encounters other people that are in traps and he has to try and save them.

So it's a little bit of a twist. Trying to keep the franchise fresh. Does it succeed? Not really. But the so he goes around. He, we did, we talked about this for what? Like how long was the episode? Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. But I will want to, I do want to say like, yeah, he has the choice of rescuing these people who, the thing that links them is they all maybe could have saved his child who died in a car accident and I never saw it white

Understood what John Kramer wanted him to do or didn't want him to do like was was like Jigsaw did he want him to kill these people or save these people? Like for him, what was the moral choice that he wanted him to make? Yeah, I mean, because so early on, like the the the Jigsaw's motivation is that he is dying from an inoperable brain tumor and he tries to like he tries to kill himself by like driving off a cliff, but somehow he survives because he has that will to live. He wants to see if these people have the same will to live.

So even though he drove off a cliff to kill himself, he has this mythic will to live that allowed him to survive. He feels that the crucible in which all humans can become better and stronger is by being in a death, life and death situation and choosing life even at the cost of their own body, basically. So it is weird that there's also, he also, the moral element of it's kind of weird because that's, it's kind of vague. It's like basically whatever he, whatever the plot needs

or if they wanna give a character a backstory, like if you've done drugs twice, he's like, fuck it, you gotta chop off your own arm or these ants are gonna eat you. But it's also like- The ants, the ants are just punching and going just a job, don't blame us. And like we're just working men, we gotta get this done.

Like every like eight out of 10 of his victims, or I guess their victims are police officers. Yes, I would say very much so. So he's also targeting police. We do that by tickets, or. Yeah, did they apply for this experience? Yeah, yeah. It's a lottery system.

You have to do as you get into a virtual queue on the internet. Oh, wow. Let's see on my resume that my jaw perfectly fits a bear trap. It's a unique skill the so So he's constantly he's targeting the police but the same time whenever so he doesn't seem to have, he, he seems to hold the law, at least the upholders of law and contempt. But then he'll constantly be also using other victims like criminal record as like receipts for why he's doing this to them. So it's like, what the fuck, dude? So it's probably a mistake to look for consistency in the mind of John Kramer fictional movie villain.

Although what's interesting is starting I think it's starting in saw two most of these these sock walls are all directed by the same person. They're almost all directed by Darren Lynn boozman boozman I don't know at some point I think you decided that this was gonna be his magnum opus because after saw three Shit starts getting really weird because at the end of saw three John Kramer has been killed by the guy put through these tests his acolyte Amanda has been killed as well and you're like I guess the nightmare is over no no no not so fast the nightmares just be getting because there's four more fucking movies and saw four is weird because it gets we find out that donny walberg's been kept alive for some reason and it's a sort of thing why would you why would you kill donny walberg i mean other than the obvious

reasons of when you have someone with a rock charisma of a donny walberg so the interest so it used the same kind of formula saw three where there's obviously lots of flash forwards and flashbacks and it follows one a police detective as he goes through like the lesson he's supposed to learn is that he's like he doesn't think before he acts. It's the weird shit. Yeah, these lessons are getting very specific. Yeah, it's more minor. It's better to give than to receive. So he goes through another abandoned warehouse full of traps.

And he encounters a trap house. Yeah, multiple victims that almost every single case he fails to keep them from getting their like limbs ripped off their body. But the movie climaxes with multiple storylines, cutting back and forth to where we have one police detective sitting in a chair that is like hovering above like a car battery or something, something an old electrocute him. And then the only thing keeping that guy

from being electrocuted is Donnie Wahlberg hanging from a chain standing on a block of ice. And the movie at the end of the movie, two other giant blocks of ice smashed together, Ewok style and smashed Donnie Wahlberg's head, which is hilarious. And then the other guy doesn't die. It was a it was a it was a trick because that guy goes on to be the new acolyte. I can't remember his name. I think it's Hoffman and he's like the bad guy for the next bunch of movies. And you look at this guy and he's supposed to be another he's another police

detective, but you look at his hair. You look at his general face and everything and you're like, this is a bad guy. Like this, this is like the villain in a Zalman King movie. I do not trust him. But a lot of people trust him for a while until he starts killing them all. Now I'm sorry to jump back for a second, but after the structure of the saw movies, they constantly jump back and forth. After Tony Walberg's head is smashed by two blocks of ice that while he's standing on

another block of ice. Is there like a scene at the end of the crads for the police come in and they open this locked room and like just like a bunch of a bunch of water comes out. But they're like, how did Johnny Walberg die? How did his head just explode? A kid at summer camp sitting around a campfire figures out the mystery. Is that kid in cyclopedia around? I mean, I would love it if there was a saw sequel where it was a crossover with

encyclopedia brown and bring him in to solve the mystery. So Saul. Saul. Yeah. Thank you. Well, what it has in this is that is that Jigsaw, John Kramer, has kidnapped, or possibly Detective Hoffman, maybe he, you know, he did, captures kidnaps Bugs Meanie

and is making Bugs Meanie go through his, through his trials because of all of his various wrongdoings. And, and Encyclopedia Brown has to save him, yeah. But the real test is whether Encyclopediaedia brown is going to save the guy who's put it who's given him so much torment that's the good is real or offman that i went for the thought of offman which is a step down in terms of ill in names yet but it does he take on the mantle of jigsaw or just calls himself

offman well they they keep saying like i thought the jigsaw killer was dead and it's like somebody's still doing it who is it and it's like obviously this dude so the the fifth the fifth saw movie shows up and I was very I'm sure it wasn't released it wasn't produced it just shows up. Well, I'm doing it. Do it subscribe to the soft the. Huh? Only only saws. It only goes for seven months. The so the thing, the thing that is notable about Sov 5 is that the main character in that movie is played by the dude who played Luke from Gilmore Girls,

who I have not seen in any other thing at all. So it was pretty crazy. So when people are watching Gilmore Girls on like a rewatch or something, they're like, whatever happened to Luke. Well, he got killed by Jigsaw because that's what happens in soft five. Now soft five, that kind of shit seems to it's the same sort of shit. It's a ton of jumping back and forth. We learn that Hoffman is the new Jigsaw and he like kills these guys and then this other guys like, oh, I'm figuring out this Hoffman guy. I don't

trust him. Turns out they face off and then like one guy thinks he kills the other guy's like, oh, I'm figuring out this Hoffman guy, I don't trust him, turns out they face off and then like one guy thinks he kills the other guy, but it was all trap, Luke dies, Hoffman survives, move on to Saw 6. And Saw 6, I think, is actually probably the best one. Now it's all good. They'd finally figured it out. It only took them five years to work the bugs out.

Now I'm trying to remember, one of these featured features like a group of like five people, and it is very much like just a series of escape rooms that they have to get through. And it had a really gory, pretty gross sequence where they have to like stick their arms in a box that has a buzzsaw blade to like drain the blood out of them and they need to get a certain amount of blood to open the door.

And like, and there is a pretty gross like bit where they like they may should do it and the guy like falls down and the his partner is like, we did hit any like lifts up his arm and it's like clearly split half and I'm like, I don't think he cares anymore like it's fine. Yeah. He's toast. He's roasted. Get him out of here. He's been jigsawed. Now, this is where my memory gets a little bit fuzzy.

But I feel like saw seven is where some people on, you know, some reviewers on Letterboxed and on IMDB said, this is where the series goes downhill. No, no, no. Series went downhill starting with part one, but part seven happens. And it's again, it's Hoffman is making, you know, he's been figured out, he's killed a whole bunch of other police. They're on his case, they think he's dead. Nope, he's not dead whole bunch of other police. Uh, they're on his case. They think he's dead. Nope. He's not dead. He's sneaking around.

And then the whole thing at the end of the day, it looks like he's managed to get away for he. He's managed to kill Jigsaw's wife. Now, I haven't even talked about Jill Tuck, wife of Jigsaw. Now, Jill Tuck, see, this is where things get a little bit weird. Donner of Friar Tuck. Sure. Because Jigsaw's motivation before was that he was dying of cancer,

but we learned later on that he's motivated because his wife was pregnant and then she and she was like a social worker and at the clinic that she was working at, like a drug addict was robbing the, wanted to rob the clinic while she was pregnant. And he slammed the door against her belly as he was like exiting the scene and that causes a miscarriage which makes Jigsaw go down this path of vengeance. So it's kind of like the whole cancer thing

seems like an afterthought at this point. Like I feel. Yeah, so he also just doesn't like crime. He also doesn't like crime. He's just a basic, doesn't like crime. He's basically a Batman. Yeah. Right?

I mean, you know, I, or a little bit, he's like, I don't see anything different between the two of them. I feel like he's like Batman and the Joker mixed together, which finally, finally. Have they done that yet? Yeah, it's a joke man. Yes, they have done that.

Okay, was it, did it work? Was it good? I didn't, I didn't read it. Oh, no, but I did taste it and it tasted like paper. Oh, so not great. So the most exciting thing for true So fans is that in part seven, Hoffman is eventually killed by a surprise saw accolade because saw, jigsaw, John Kramer always has a backup plan.

And that is, uh, Cariel was returns to the series minus a foot because he chopped it off, but he comes back to the series despite having contract disputes with the creators of Saw. They wrote that into the movie? The contract is pretty not right there. Unless, I mean, I read that in the Wikipedia entry, but that could have been part of the original script. So, he shows up and then they kill the bad, the bad jigsaw with other jigsaws.

And that's the end of Saw 7, the final chapter. From the internationally acclaimed creators of Who Shacha comes the movie podcast Maximum Film. Star and producer and film festival programmer Dreaklark as a woman bound by passion. I saw this eight months ago on the festival circuit, and I loved it. Film critic Alonzo Duralde as a man corrupted by greed. Why watch one home art crisis movie when I can watch seven?

And comedian Iffy Wadiway as a man protecting a love that society simply won't accept. I think Pacific Rim is a perfect movie. And if you can't accept that, then I want you out of our lives. From the makers of the movie podcast, Hushacha comes Maximum Film. That's right, we changed the name of our show to Maximum Film. But don't worry, we're still a movie review show that isn't just a bunch of straight white dudes. So tune in to Maximum Film at MaximumFund.org or wherever you get your podcasts.

I listen to Bullseye because Jesse always has really good questions. What did John Malkovich wear when he was 20? To the... I don't know how to describe it. There's always that moment where Jesse asks a question that the person he's interviewing has not thought of before. I don't think anyone's ever said that to me or acknowledged that to me and that is so real. Bullseye! Interviews with creators you love and creators you need to know from MaximumFun.org and NPR.

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to ask you your favorite saw traps and maybe your other favorite performances by Star of the Saw movies, Tobin Bell. But honestly, I had a really fucking bad day today. There was a flood in the basement of one of my bars. Again, if you are listening and you want to give me plumbing advice, just email to Dan, he'll pass along. But so I really don't have the,

it feels kind of silly at this point. What do you guys want to talk about? What do we want to talk about? So this is just sort of like, three-play time. How are you guys want to talk about? What do we want to talk about? So this is just sort of like three-play time. How are you guys doing? This is sort of like, you know, this is like, you know, free swim. Yeah, this is recess. Dan, you just went to class. Dan, you just went to Niagara Falls. We wanted to talk about Niagara Falls. Niagara Falls. Yeah, I don't know what to say about it. It's you know, don't go on the

made it. Well, you can go on the made of the miss. Here's the thing. In 2021, the way that they handled going on the made of the miss, you can't buy tickets online. You got to go. The made of the mist for listeners who don't know is a famous boat that goes through the falls. Yeah. Yeah. It's just not it's not just a made that lives in the mist that gives you piggyback Yeah. It's just not, it's not just a made that lives in the mist that gives you piggyback rides. But it's not something that's made of mist, you know, like a vampire sometimes.

So if you want to go on this boat that goes under the falls, you, or not under them, but almost under them, you go and you like scan a QR code on your phone and then like they tell you when you can come back and wait in line for about an hour and- Look what is Jake's on charge of this? Dan, I'm surprised you got out of that one. Oh boy. Well, the main of this was wonderful but they go so close to the false.

If you want to be dressed in freezing water without doing it it for some sort of charity go on the made of the mist You also having to go on like it was basically oh, sorry, say so I was just saying you also having to go on like a Unseasonably cold weekend. Yeah, it was it was frigid and perhaps that was the reason why fully one half of my family got sick with a cold after being trished in in water. So so Dan's review of Made of the Mist is amazing. One of a kind of experience. Too cold you get wet and minor inconvenience in applying for the ticket.

So are there any marvels of you know, American geography that you guys want to complain about? I want to read dense reviews around the country. Grant Canyon, breathtaking, majestic, too hot and inconveniently located. Not enough guardrails. How would you get a true like having been to the Grand Canyon, you walk up to the edge and you're like, holy shit, I could just fall. I mean, that's what that's why they say why you walk up to the edge and you're like holy shit, I could just fall. I mean, that's what that's why they say why are you paying for the whole canyon when you're just gonna use that edge? Yeah, no the Grand Canyon, the safety standards there are basically the same as like the Death Star.

Well, I'm just like big open spaces without rails who cares. Well, like I feel like it's unrealistic to put a rail around the whole thing, right? No, I wouldn't want to write. Although, what a Tony Hawk level that would be, right? Yeah. It would be amazing. How many points would you get for that shit? So this new freeform structure is going great. Yeah, yes.

So, let's just to recap for listeners who might just be joining now, just tuning into the podcast. Stuart took us through the whole saw series Then we had an ad then Dan wrote it gave a withering review of the made of the mist and the agro falls boat and now we're just gonna You know talking talking great canyon. So that's that's the flop house to premiere bed We're pivoting into our new podcast talking canyon. I mean, this is a flop house mini Which I believe my contract states I can do whatever the fuck I want. That's what it says.

It says that language. And I quote, where a cane can be a kid. Yeah. So I mean, that's, they knew what they were getting into when I started, when I started talking to scary saw voice, they could have just dropped this rollercoastercoaster we don't we don't usually like to pull back the curtain too much on our business affairs for listeners but when we were negotiating the contract for the many extension of the regular series the side letter contract that Stewart did fight very hard for the lawyer to include the language don't want to grow up don't want to grow up I want to be a toyserous kid yeah yeah the Yeah. And the lawyer kept advising Stuart.

You guys own your own show. You don't have to do this. I don't understand why he's here. Yeah. And he's like, this is a super dated reference, dude. And I'm like, have you listened to our podcast? And then you said, now put in the lyrics to the My Buddy song. Wherever I go, he goes. Uh-huh.

Uh-huh. So I think since we're talking about horror movies kind of tonight, I would also like to mention that this past Wednesday, the fifth issue of Elliott, Kalens, Maniac of New York was released in news stands everywhere. That's right. Comic book specialty stores, not Newstans. Comic books are almost never available on Newstans these days. I've seen Archie Digest sell over the place. Right, but a maniac in New York doesn't tend to be shelved

in the supermarket checkout line along with the Archie double digest. Yeah, when are you going to have double digest of maniac in New York? We don't have enough material yet for a double digest, but there will be a trade paperback coming out later in the year, collecting the first five issues of this maniac in New York story. But, yeah, the fifth one came out this week. It's on comic store shelves now, unless it sold out. But issue number two is getting a second printing.

So, maybe this one will someday, or the trade will be coming out if you miss it. I was thinking of going actually like going out to a comic store today to get your comic and then these skies opened up and the deluge happened lightning cracked and Audrey came into my room and the cats came running into my room and I did not go out and get on glad you didn't break the storm Dan because we're recording this on a Tuesday and new comics don't come out to Wednesdays because you would have arrived at the comic store Drimston said and they would have said sorry dude come back tomorrow. I mean that is very good. No, okay

Well, they all give it a try. Yeah, come come come come. Xer the one medium the one pop culture medium that comes out on Wednesdays, right? It's like, yes. Unlike, like books come out on twos. Almost everything else comes out on Tuesdays or Fridays, right? Or sometimes Thursdays for movies, you know, but not for all movies. And Sunday's of course is when God comes out and goes, yuhu, at all the people at church and then goes back in. Yeah, Dan, while you were, while you were, unless you're Jewish, then he comes out on Saturday and goes, yuhu, at all the people at church and then goes back in. Yeah, Dan, while you were, while you were failing, when he comes out on Saturday and says,

yuhu, while you and your family were hiding in your room from the from the lightning and thunder, I was in my basement with water well above my ankles, furiously trying to pick things off the floor, so they don't get soaked. It was really cool. And I was in California where it was, drive a bone which will not be good come fire season which starts any day now and lasts until forever. Now I don't want to take us too far back down the country road which just came down,

but I just, I don't think that, yeah. The fact that there're these archie digest That was the that was the alleyway we didn't walk down Just the idea that in this day and age an archie comic can be Alasman impulse by like a pack of go Well, because Stan it's not it's not an adult that's usually I think driving this purchase It's a kid saying oh buy me buy me that, buy me that. Yeah.

You don't think it's a person who's like, well, I've read all of these magazines that are here and this Horoscopes book and what else do you see there, like a... This time life special about biblical prophecy next to this time life special about Star Wars, next to this time life special about about Star Wars next to this time, life special about the British Royal family. Yeah, about Princess Diana. Yeah. All the Sudoku I've done. I've already picked up John Wayne's favorite barbecue recipes magazine.

Oh, oh, this is interesting. It seems like a tale of a young man torn between two lovers. Archie. And his best friend, Juggett, seems to be something of a false taffy and character, of, you know, a slave to his own appetites. So obviously, the duality of woman kind. Black hair and yellow hair the two kinds feel like so obviously What is Dan Archie?

Elliott's Reggie and I'm jug head. How does this work? I mean, I'm clearly Dilton Yeah, you are a real I think Stuart you're probably a jug head Dan is either I'm probably more of a mr. Weatherby To be honest. Yeah, to be fair to be fair I think you're maybe Stuart's Archie and you're mr. Weatherby to be honest. Yeah, to be fair, to be fair. I think you're maybe Stuart's Archie and you're Mr. Weatherby and I'm a Jughead's dog that has adventures in space and times sometimes. Oh man, so we talked a lot about Saul and Archie. Dan, if...

Okay, now wait, so if you made a saw movie and you cast it with the Archie characters, just spin that scenario for me, or saw an area, just make for me how that would work. Is it Archie and Jughead and Regia's Saw, or is it that Archie's Saw and Jughead and Regia in the room, is Betty Saw, who is a Veronica?

Who is it? That's those are good questions. I mean, I feel like the obvious choices that Regia would be some kind of Jigsaw, Aka Light character, like you suspect him immediately and your suspicions will be confirmed at the very end, but you will realize that none of your actions, every single action you've done will lead you to a situation

where you're getting crushed by, I don't know, like a giant anvil, or I'm trying to think. Well, if it's Jughead, like a giant hamburger. I mean, who's the closest to a villain? Mr. Lodge. I mean Mr. Lodge could be a saw. There's actually, you know, Mr. Lodge is the hero of that story. The fact that he hasn't, he hasn't. No, it's true.

He has a sawdust. The shiftless, charmed, personal, the elus, lay about is a, now there is a sawtrap in the beginning of Saw 7, which is also the only movie in the series that's in 3D, where we have a love triangle, where there's two men and the woman they both love, the woman they both love, are in a situation where they're all trapped between like three chainsaws and they can like,

they can control who gets chainsawed, but they like, somebody's definitely getting chainsawed as the answer. And so I feel like that's like written right there. That's Archie, that's Archie Bate right there. Okay, so you do with Archie, okay, now the Muppets. You're casting the song, we'll be with the Muppets. Who's playing who?

Gonzalo is saw. Okay, goes with that thing, he's got a spiral nose, sure. And was it like Fuzzy and Kermit are trapped in the, in the time? I didn't even get to ask. Statler and Waldorf. Speaking of, you mentioned Ganzo's spiral nose. We didn't even mention the fact that I think,

Dan, you saw a spiral in the movie theater, right? I did see a spiral. Yeah. So how does it tie into the full mythology of all seven movies that i explained in a hundred percent accurate also want to know how it ties into the uzumaki series which is what i think of one thing of spirals uh... you know it does not end them up tied into the

market and tied into the muppets to and maybe throw in some of the dinosaurs in there you know what i've which ones up talking about not the mama anyway continue i i i i don't want to spoil too much of it, since it is still out there in theaters for people who might want to see it. But it's out of theaters you can spoil it because it'll gun, and it'll never be able to see it. You'll never be able to see it again. Back to the diss retailers. The villain in it is another one of your thoughts. We've sent the Fox and the Hound back to the Disney Vault

to serve out its sentence for the crimes that committed. Yeah. No, you know, it's another one of these movies where you will not be surprised by who is revealed to be the latest saw accolite. But it's not, you know, it's not one of these direct saw accolites. The meaning of the title is sort of that it spirals out. People are now being inspired by him.

Oh, okay, okay. Well, now you're getting to the point where I assume it's long enough ago that you have people who could not have known the original saw and are now learning about it either second hand or their, their, their accolites of acolytes of acolytes or I feel like about it on snopes or something was saw real. Let me look it up true Okay, snopes says it's true. He was real. Let me learn more about him that kind of thing Yeah, let me watch the a&e biography about about saw. Let's see. Oh, yeah, interesting. Oh, so so Listen to the podcast. It's all about saw. I'm sure there's like And listen to the podcast that's all about Saw. I'm sure there's like a million.

I'm actually surprised. Like it is a shame that the all seven movies in the series ended before they could have some like, you know, like true crime podcast guy gets sawed to death. Like they did that new Halloween movie. So guys, we've had a lot of fun talking about Saw. Do we have any final thoughts? Elliot I think you're you mentioned you wanted to say something about the Saw

franchise. Yeah you're right I've I said ahead of time when I didn't know what the theme of the episode was I said Stuart I want to say about Saw so I hope this episode is about Saw. Saw is a franchise that I don't know particularly well. I feel like the first movie was not for me and I admire Stuart's grit in watching and sitting through all the movies. I admire his stick to itiveness and his sister. I admire his choice not to burden himself with children that would take up his time

and make it impossible for him to watch all seven song movies. And in under a week. So that's more than one a day, which is ridiculous. But more than anything, I'm glad that Stuart did the work so that I don't have to see the saw movies because I don't want to see Saw. Dan, top that. Jordan insert the team which top that wrap here. The whole thing. We're bubble scene. We bought the whole thing. We bought the whole thing.

We bought the whole thing. We bought the whole thing. We bought the whole thing. We bought the whole thing. We bought the whole thing. We bought the whole thing. We bought the whole thing. We bought the whole thing.

We bought the whole thing. We bought the whole thing. We bought the whole thing. We bought the whole thing. We bought the whole thing. We bought the whole thing. We bought the whole thing. We bought the whole thing.

We bought the whole thing. We bought the whole thing. We bought the whole thing. We bought the whole thing. We bought the whole thing. We bought the whole thing. So this reminds me, so we talked about a saw and cyclopedia brown crossover. I want to see a teen witch teen wolf crossover. I want more crossovers, more crossover movies. And then I want like, I want it to be saw. And so Jason and Freddie wake up and they're in one of Saw's traps. But then when they get out of it, Saw learns it's all a dream that the tall man has put him in. And then somehow we're going to get some critters in there too.

I haven't totally figured it out yet. And it turns out it's all going on inside of Michael Myers head. They're all different aspects of his personality that are all fighting each other. But just when it seems that we've gotten to the final twist, uh oh, the Mars attack salience coming. And now it's Michael Myers versus the Mars attack salience. I mean, I don't think I need to say this out loud,

but I might as well. That's of course, this is all trademarked the flop house. So if anyone tries to steal it, I guess it's't think I need to say this out loud, but I might as well. That's of course This is all trademark the flop house if anyone tries to steal it Don't steal it TMT. This is I wonder it reminds me that there was never a Or maybe there will maybe there was I don't know about it that like asylum or some other place didn't do like a low-budget ready player One that's all public domain characters like it's all like Robin Hood and stuff like that like Congratulations. You invented the League of Extr Hood and stuff like that. Like, congratulations. You invented the League of Extrord and Airgill. Oh, you're right.

No, but that's not the same thing. You know what I mean, but that is the League of Extrord and gentlemen. Now, I mean, I'd heard, I think I heard rumors that what is it? Universal wants to do a crossover between the Fast and Furious series and the Jurassic World series, which man, that sounds great. I mean, that movie better end with Dracula showing up and biting a dinosaur and it turning into a vampire dinosaur. You're right.

Well, that's like the, I'm kind of curious to see. I mean, we should watch the new Space Jam for this podcast, but the fact that they're like every Warner Brothers property will be showing up in this movie and that like, they already released those stills where like the droogs from Clockwork Orange seemed to be there at the game unless that was a mocked up thing but I hope it was I hope it was real that just like everything and like they're gonna at a certain point they're gonna have to pull in Rick from Casablanca to play in the game like oh man that's gonna be great yeah and just captain Reno. I was about to say that that would be a good excuse for me to wear my

Michael Jordan space jam jersey, but I find that I wear that almost every week. So yeah, it's just part of my wardrobe now That's your traditional finishing the soft ranch highs Celebration shirt. Uh-huh. Yep. That's and yeah to do that also to celebrate the fact that my back was feeling better I ran around the apartment. I gave imaginary people high fives It was it was great did a couple of pushups. So Dan Do you have any final thoughts on these saw franchise or you can you can pause saw and give a final thought on Niagara Falls? I got, you know, I can't be too down on Niagara Falls. I got a great lenticular keychain with my name on it. Thank you for your name. If you move it back and forth fireworks go off in the background and in the foreground my name Dan gets

Bigger and bigger and bigger and how is this so is this how is this Niagara Falls related? Does it say at Niagara Falls? On the other side it says Niagara Falls But all the the hotland tickular action is on What is this image imagine somebody is handing out fires outside a strip club and it says hotland tickular action is on. Do you, uh, what is this image? Imagine somebody is handing out flyers outside a strip club and it says hotland tickular action. And it's just all these drunk businessmen coming in and

being totally disappointed. Yeah. And the strippers are just like, Oh, uh, if you like move your eye, if you move your head slightly to the left, my, uh, my bra will disappear. And if you move it back, it's there again. Uh, yeah, that's, yeah, that's what they want. I want that bra back. So we've had a lot of fun.

Dan didn't tell me what the linticular keychain that says Stewart on it does. I guess that's going to be safe for the next mini. It's one way and it's carry always with a leg and you turn it the other way and it's carry always way. Is then his leg is gone. He's like, oops. Mm-hmm.

He's got his hands out and he says, what, what, what, I don't know. He's wearing a bathing suit on the beach and there's a bear trap that's pulling down the back of the bathing suit to show that he has a tan. Uh-huh. And it's called copper saw. There is a moment, I think it's in Saw 6, when the bear trap, the original bear trap comes back. Like that's the closest thing that series has to like,

because he never used the same fucking trap twice except for this one bear trap. And it's kind of crazy, because it's like, like you put all this work into making this fucking sick trap to kill people, and then you just do it once and you're done, like, why don't you use that thing a couple of times?

That's the beauty of the experience, is that it's here, and that it's just an memory first like, he's like the Christo of Tortures. It's just like an experience that he wants you to carry with you, you know. Yeah, I guess and they always involve like a cassette tape that says their specific name so you can't use it for someone else, right?

Yeah, it's a space man singing happy birthday to you and he says your name in the song. Yeah, he's like, like, lived in like, flipped in the little tab to you can't. I mean, you can't record over it. Scott, you can't record. You can't record over it. You can't record. You wanted to, but that feels a little... I would you want to at that point. What's so important that you got to record it

on that particular tape? So this, this, Dovetail is nicely into my final thoughts. I, you know, I, the Saw series is a series that I wasn't particularly excited about. I'd only seen the first, I'd seen the first three previously. And I like the series where you saw the first three and you weren't sure about it yet.

To be fair, I think the same thing happened to me with the Transformers. Like I like slogged my way through three of them, like maybe this time. Oh, it's like Lucy with the football. It's logged my way through three of them, like maybe this time. Mm-hmm. It's like Lucy with the football, like, just each time Michael Bay is like, you're gonna like this one, psych. The, so, I, what I will say is the series gets stranger and cheaper and more like a weird television show. The longer it goes on and so, I feel like I like the later movies more

because they are dumber and weirder and cheaper. So I'm glad I watched the whole series. Would I recommend it to anyone? Under no circumstance, I don't think they're worth your time. Maybe, Ellie, you should, you know, maybe while you're washing dishes, or, you know, if you want to take some time away from the family, or maybe if you want to spend some time with the family, you can teach them all about, you know, problem solving, getting out of traps. Yeah, reality problem solving, we're to buy hardware, how to use them only once. So, I think I go kids at time for our carry always always devil feature the princess bride and saw you're gonna love it

So what I will say is I think I totally nailed it We we delivered a perfect mini every time 100 100% kill rate. Yep. No scope did it again So for the flop house. I am Stewart Wellington saying, thank you to Max Fun, our network that puts this out. Thank you so much to Jordan Cowling, who helps make this somewhat listenable. Thank you to my two friends, Dan and Elliott, who want to spend this time with me Stewart and just hang out and chat and bullshit and like, you know, like ask me about my day,

and I'm like, it wasn't that great, guys. And they're like, okay, we'll talk about Saul, because that's what you told us we were talking about. I'm like, okay, let's do it. Yeah, so we're like, crack the whip. Yeah, boohoo, crime your river, tiniest violin, get with the saw. I, you know, I, just in summary, I've been Stuart Wellington. I've a damn McCoy.

I've been Ellie Kaelin. That's not a summary of anything you said before, really, but thank you listeners. Maximumfund.org. Comedy and culture. Artists-owned, audience supported. Maximumfund.org. Comedy and Culture. Artist-owned, audience supported.