The Florida Roundup - Ban on gender-affirming care; Florida’s culture wars 

Episode Date: June 2, 2023

Florida’s ban on gender-affirming care for minors also creates obstacles for adults to access treatment; former Congressman David Jolly weighs in on Florida’s culture wars

Welcome to the Florida Roundup, and thanks for listening. I'm Melissa Ross in Jacksonville. And I'm Danny Rivero in Miami. It's June now, which kicks off the LGBTQ Plus Pride Month. At the same time, Governor Ron DeSantis recently signed into law a bill that bans gender-affirming medical care, such as puberty blockers or hormone therapy for transgender youth. Now, the law immediately went into effect when the governor signed it May 17th. It criminalizes providing gender-affirming care for most children.

But here's the thing. It's also disrupting access to health care for trans adults. Mental health is so much better on HRT and testosterone. So the fear of like, what is going to happen if I'm not able to get my medication? How am I going to be able to to function? That's that's that's Noah Lovell. He's 30 years old and worries about losing access to his weekly testosterone shot. He spoke with Stephanie Colombini, who covers health care for WUSF and Health News Florida.

Stephanie joins us now along with WUSF multimedia journalist Dalena Miller. And we're also joined by Dr. Raul Sanchez, a pediatrician and expert in gender affirming care. Thanks all of you for joining us this afternoon. Thanks. and expert in gender-affirming care. Thanks all of you for joining us this afternoon. Thank you. Now, we'll be spending this entire hour with different voices from the community on this topic. And just for our audience, so you all know, this might be a sensitive conversation

for some listeners here. That's right, Danny. We are also taking your calls and tweets throughout the show as we spend the bulk of the hour looking at the impact of this law on Florida's transgender community. As Pride Month begins, we want your calls statewide. Give us a call right now. Share your stories and questions with us. It's 305-995-1800 or tweet us at Florida Roundup. Before we begin, let's hear from the sponsor of the bill, State Representative Randy Fine. The Palm Bay Area Republican spoke with WFTV in Orlando this week.

Take a listen. There's nothing in our bill, nothing at all, that would stop an adult from getting these castrating drugs. If it is very important for a man to use the women's restroom, Florida is not the right state for them. 305-995-1800. Daylena Miller, let's start with you and that statement from Representative Fein. What do you hear when you hear that statement that maybe Florida is not the right place for trans people? Well, Melissa, I mean as a non-binary person, I'm still a journalist first, so my opinion doesn't matter about what Representative Fine had to say, but as

far as the transgender people that I've spoken to, obviously they disagree. They say that trans people have always existed, they're always going to exist, and they have the right to exist in Florida and in the Deep South. And a lot of people might be fleeing the state doing GoFundMes to be able to leave, but a lot more of them are going to continue to stay here, and they say they're going to continue to fight. In that vein, we are at the start of Pride Month for the month of June. What are you hearing about how this new law and other recent bills that target LGBTQ rights are impacting the Pride celebrations around Florida? So some Pride celebrations have been canceled.

Port St. Lucie canceled theirs. Tampa's Pride on the River was canceled for this month because of the anti-drag legislation specifically. Some Pride celebrations are restricting their events to 21 plus and over, including Prides like in Sebring. St. Pete Pride is continuing all of their planned celebrations as planned. They do have some events that were already going to be 18 plus or 21 plus. Others are family friendly and open to anyone in the community. Interesting to hear. In a moment, I'll go to you, Stephanie Columbini. It's 305-995-1800. A recent published report showed that at the Family Research Council's 2017 Values Voter Summit, Meg Kilgannon of Concerned Parents and Educators of Fairfax County, Virginia, laid out a strategy for attacking LGBTQ plus rights by going after trans people.

She said the LGBT alliance is fragile and trans activists need the gay rights movement to legitimize them. If we separate the T, she said, from the alphabet soup, we'll have more success. Kilgannon then advising conservatives to do three things. Target health care for kids first, avoid religious arguments, and avoid name-calling trans people. We went on to see former President Trump announce plans in 2017 to ban trans people from serving in the military. Joe Biden overturned that ban when he took office. In 2019, the first bans on health care for trans youth popped up. This was a coordinated assault on trans rights led by a number of political action committees and conservative groups that have fanned out around the country.

And so today, 21 states have passed these kinds of bans, including Florida. So, Stephanie Colombini, this new law is not happening in a vacuum. Can you take us through the new statute and what exactly it says? Yeah. Well, one thing it does is codify into law rules that were already put in place earlier this year from state medical boards that restrict access to gender-affirming care for trans youth. It criminalizes doctors who would prescribe these treatments like continue. But there are some other barriers as well that are making it more difficult for adults to access care and those children who are exempt from that. You know, it doesn't allow nurse practitioners to prescribe hormones, which that's a huge part of gender affirming care in Florida is nurse practitioners taking on that role. It has to be a physician now. in Florida is nurse practitioners taking on that role. It has to be a physician now. State funds can't be used to help provide this care, which is also a blow to places like public universities

that had gender clinics. So it does a lot to restrict access in the state. You can call us at 305-995-1800 to join in on this conversation. I want to go to Renee calling from Ocala. Renee, thanks for calling the Florida Roundup. You're on. Yeah, this is the thing. There is no such thing as transgender people. People are people.

You have genders, a female and a male. That's it. There's no hybrid, we're this, we're that. All that stuff is just to bring you into this conversation. You are a pediatrician and an expert in gender affirming care. For someone who expresses that opinion that Renee just expressed, what are they missing or what do you want to express in response to that? So I think that usually people that will express an opinion like that maybe don't understand the amount of true research and study that has been done in understanding human sexuality, understanding gender. There's just been so many advances in the last several decades in our understanding of that. And I think sometimes society does need to

catch up to that. Often those statements can be made or are often made on non-scientific, non-social scientific grounds, more sometimes personal belief, religious belief. And it's just really important to kind of separate those things. And I mean, you know, we all have biases, right? And even myself, when I entered into caring for this population, roughly around five or seven years ago, admittedly, I didn't understand any of it. And I had to seek out, I had to understand and study and learn, go to conferences, really kind of understand the scope of of it. And I had to seek out, I had to understand and study and learn, go to conferences, really kind of understand the scope of this population and understand where they're coming from. And I can't say that I have the lived experience of a trans person,

but I can't, or non-binary person, but I can say that I can appreciate it and that there's just, there's so much, there's so many clinical parameters that have been established based on research in terms of the management of them that I think we can really feel safe in understanding that we should respect the population and listen to them and listen to their personal experiences. Stephanie, I want to bring you back into this. Stephanie, I want to bring you back into this. You were at the Florida Board of Medicine meeting in South Tampa this week, where members of that board were tasked with setting the rules for gender affirming care in the wake of this law passing. Can you tell us a little bit about what that meeting was like and what was decided specifically in the meeting, but it was a really emotional meeting. There was about 100 people there. Almost everybody in the audience was there to protest this new law. People are really hurt by what's going on and feeling the effects. We mentioned this law went into effect immediately last month when Governor DeSantis signed it.

And so that set off a whole string of issues where people have had their care disrupted. And one of the key things that this meeting was about, and that's causing some of these issues in care, is that the law tasked these medical boards with coming up with an informed consent form that patients would have to sign to get their medications. Now, there already are consent forms to start things like puberty blockers and whatnot. But the state is tasked these medical boards with coming up with their own forms and they don't exist yet. And so we've heard from patients that doctors have just said, OK, well, we can't keep your prescription going right now until we have this new form. So it's already disrupting care. And so members of the audience were making that clear to medical boards yesterday. And there was

definitely some contentious moments, but they did listen to people's concerns. And what we're expecting is that an emergency rule should be passed soon that would at least allow people to continue getting refills on their prescriptions until these consent forms are created. 305-995-1800. Heather in Williston, Florida. Hi, Heather. You're on the radio. Yeah, go ahead. Hi, I'm from Florida.

And it's just really heartbreaking to hear about this new event. It seems like we're going to lose a lot of good people. I've got so many patients who rely on this therapy, and they're great people, and they're thinking of moving because they're not going to be able to get the medication they need because their providers are saying it may be a crime for them to continue to write for these medications. I mean, we really need some politicians who understand the division of politics and church. It's really hard to see. And these are great people, and we would just take such a huge loss if they left.

Thank you for that, Heather. Dalena Miller, you know, we heard earlier from a caller saying she doesn't believe that there's anything more than male and female. Physicians know differently, as Dr. Sanchez just pointed out in that caller. People of good, good faith, can disagree about transgender care for minors. They might say that some kids should not be allowed to undergo therapies till they turn 18. But later in the hour, we're going to be speaking with trans adults about their troubles accessing care now in the state of Florida. And in the past, it was typically the conservative view that adults should be able to make their own health care

choices. So what does this law say about how this is affecting adults in Florida who are being denied care? Are you asking me? Yeah, Daylena Miller. Okay. I mean, you know, as Stephanie, you know, alluded to, the law is making it so that basically 80% of the providers that were providing care to people, you know, that gender-affirmed care, hormone replacement therapy, surgeries for a small group of these people. You know, we're hearing of people having their top surgeries canceled, you know, of people being told we can't we can no longer see you because we're physicians assistants and not doctors. There is a psychiatrist and psychologist shortage in the state. So it's just these laws are making it more and more difficult for trans people to access that care. You know, and earlier in the hour when we heard from the representative

who was a cosigner for this bill, you know, he said that there was nothing in the bill that would block people from getting treatment. But that's that's just not the case. A lot of people are struggling to get that treatment. Even the fully adult transgender individuals, some of which have been on hormones for 10, 15, 20 years, are having their providers come back and say, we can't continue to see you. We can't refill your prescriptions. So it is having a huge impact on people. The number is 305-995-1800. I want to go to Larry calling from Sebastian. Larry, thanks for calling the Florida Roundup. You're quite welcome. I just wanted to make a question. I want better understanding of it, so what can I do? What can I search on Google and so forth so that I can learn more about the transvestite issues.

I mean, is it normally a mental thing or is it mostly physical? You know, genes and so forth. Got it. Thank you for the call, Larry. And Dr. Sanchez, I think I'll put that to you. Larry calling really sounds like genuinely just trying to understand better about what it means for the fact that the transgender community exists and trying to wrap his head around it. Dr. Sanchez, where would someone start if they're really trying to educate themselves in good faith on this? I think that's a great question. So I look at

how I direct people based on what you're looking for. So I'm just going to say first, if you're a medical professional and you're interested in understanding more, there are some wonderful resources through WPATH. You can go to wpath.org and look at their standards of care. And that's just laden with research. And it's sort of the Bible of care. You can also, if you're a medical professional, look at the Endocrine Society's statement of care for the trans community that was published in 2017. And all you have to do is Google that sort of Endocrine Society 2017 trans care, and then you'll also get some great parameters. As a layperson, I think there's some great books. So since I'm a pediatrician, I generally refer people to books that are for parents to read.

And they're wonderful for anybody to read, to be honest with you, because it helps to, if you can kind of understand someone who's a trans child and then later trans adolescent and emerging adult, it really kind of is the same sort of information that carries on. So I usually recommend books. I mean, if you'd like me to, I can just say something. One book that I really love that I send people to, it's called the Transgender Teen Handbook. I believe the author, last name of the author is, I'm just trying to remember off the top of my head, is Brill, B-R-I-L-L, Stephanie Brill brill so it's the called the transgender team that's what it's called the transgender team that's a wonderful book and that's a great starting place thank you

and and doctor quickly um i mean this this new law will essentially ban a lot of gender affirming care for minors um what is the impact of that going to be now and in the long term? Yeah, it's scary. Yes, you're absolutely right. Well, it bans care for any new presenting minor, so adolescent. Let's be really clear when we say what we're talking about, because a child is technically a prepubertal and would never be offered any medicine or any type of transition medically. So we're talking about adolescence. And yes, but it also bans a person who, say, for example, is on a certain medication course, like a puberty suppressing agent, and at the point where they might be ready for more gender-affirming hormones, it would ban that access to move forward. And so it's created a system that's actually scary.

The problem when you start to have these kind of campaigns against the population and against their identity is those people want to then hide their identity. And we know that hiding and concealing identities increase mental health risks and increase problems, increase suicidality, desires for self-harm. It also potentially will make them seek illicit sources, such as online hormones that are not safe.

That they shouldn't be seeking. Yeah, I want to thank all three of you for being here today. Stephanie Colombini and Daylena Miller, both of WUSF, and Dr. Ryle Sanchez, a pediatrician in Florida and an expert in gender affirming care. Next, trans adults speak out about their trouble accessing important care in Florida here on the Florida Roundup. Kjell Kronström so E aí Thank you. Welcome back to the Florida Roundup. I'm Danny Rivero in Miami. And I'm Melissa Ross in Jacksonville.

Well, much of the attention surrounding the new law on transgender health care in Florida has focused on kids or teens. But the bill also targets trans adults. That's right. Under the rules, only physicians are allowed to offer gender-affirming care. That means nurse practitioners can no longer prescribe certain medications. And under some estimates, a majority of transgender adults receive care from nurse practitioners. So any health care provider who violates the new law could be charged with a misdemeanor. This has forced some health centers in the state to pause gender-affirming hormones and surgeries for their patients entirely. We're joined now by two people who are currently experiencing these challenges corinne mariposa is the director and founder of miami seed share and she's trans she joins me in

the studio in miami and also joining us is leslie schaefer who's an adult intersex hormone replacement therapy patient in jacksonville corinne leslie thank you so much for coming on. Thanks for having us. And so, Corinne, let's start with you. We've talked about it. The impact of this law on adults has been a little bit abstract. It's been a little bit in the background. A lot of the debate in the legislature around this was focused on adolescents, teenagers. But this is something that's already affecting you personally. And I can confirm you are an adult. Yes, I'm absolutely an adult. Can you tell us a little bit about what you've been going through these last couple weeks?

It started the day after this law was signed. I went to my regular appointment at my care provider that I've had for the last five years, and my nurse practitioner told me in the hallway that they could no longer legally see me, that the health services were going to have to be figured out because everything was changing, and they were scared of being able to provide to us what we rely upon to live for our opportunity to exist in this world. And that's being taken away as of day one, it happened to me. And I mean, you're kind of shaking a little bit in your seat. It's emotional. Yeah. And I mean, that happened day one. What did you do day two?

Where do you seek your care if that's the case? I'm fortunate enough to have some refills, but now that they have to rework these terms of care, it's up in the air. I feel like it's a ticking clock for how long I'm going to get to stay here in Florida. And I love it here. I don't want to leave, but I won't be able to stay alive in this state if they take away what I rely upon to exist in the world. It is not a life choice.

It is 100% what we need to exist. And Corinne, at the top of the hour, we heard one of the sponsors of this, Representative Randy Fine, say there's nothing in this law that would prevent an adult from getting care. An MD would be able to issue prescriptions or see someone, but I mean, a lot of transgender people get their prescriptions currently, or at least up till now, have from nurse practitioners. I mean, how do you respond to that? Because he says, no, you can get your treatment. Well, I can promise him that it is causing trouble for all of us. There's no way to even talk to some people about this. I'm happy to be here to try to explain to people what's happening,

but it's becoming impossible in this state for us to get to exist, and it's so offensive. When people say the things they're saying, these politicians, it's enraging. Let's go now to Leslie Schaefer here with me in Jacksonville. Leslie, thanks for being with us. Of course. I'm glad to be here. You're also an adult. You've been getting hormone therapy. Tell us about why you needed this therapy first. as my body developed through puberty, I required several different medical interventions to sort of assist in what they thought should have been my regular development. When I reached an age where I was able to take my health care into my own hands, I discovered through a series of different blood tests and different types of medical tests that my endocrine system was never producing the correct amount of hormones for either a male or a female.

Now, I think it's really important to point out that this is my biological sex we're talking about. This is wholly separate from gender identity. This is how my body functions. These sex hormones are important in your body for a number of metabolistic processes. It's not as if testosterone just makes you a boy and estrogen just makes you a woman. The balance of these hormones are very important for general health. So I also had begun seeing a therapist because of my gender identity, because I was placed into the role of a male throughout my life, which I never felt that I identified with. You know, I needed to explore those feelings. There may have been a biochemical cause behind mine,

but that's kind of neither here nor there. They're separate issues. And so to respond to something like Mr. Fine said earlier, the use of the language, these castrating drugs, the use of the language, these castrating drugs, it offends and it obscures the fact that hormones are necessary for life function of all people. Limiting an adult's access to drugs that, like the previous, like our other guest has said, are necessary for us to live,

whether it's to live in the sense of psychological affirmation or whether it's to live as far as body process or, in the case of a person like me, a combination of both of those. These are necessary medications. So in the wake of this bill's passage, what is your medical situation in terms of trying to access care? Well, very similar. I was notified the day after the passage of the bill by the APRN that I had been seeing for the past four years that I was no longer able to be prescribed these drugs. And so obviously that spun me into quite a bit of a panic. A majority of hormone replacement therapy patients in Florida are, as we heard earlier, are prescribed their medications through APRNs or nurse practitioners.

And so there really was nowhere for me to turn. practitioners, and so there really was nowhere for me to turn. I fortunately was able to reach out to some doctors through the Mayo Clinic and a private practice that is involved with the Mayo Clinic, and because of my situation, was able to explain to an MD the necessity of my continued care. Not everyone has those resources. Not everyone knows those numbers to call. Not everyone has the friend and support group that recommended me. So while I got very lucky, there is still a general sense of panic, both in my mind and the mind of the community, because we really, we have very few options. We don't really know where to go. mind of the community because we really we have very few options we don't really know where to go

corinne i want to bring you back in here um polls that have been done have found that most americans say they don't know anyone who is transgender and that seems to be one of the factors that is creating a very large gap of understanding with a lot of the population. How can that gap be bridged? Communication. We should be, as transgender people, the ones to help join the education. To all the cisgender people and everyone in the world, we are a super minority, and they are really enjoying picking on us. But it's up to us to connect. I'm doing events called Ask a Trans Girl, where people can come. It's a safe space for them to ask me any questions, because even the people who know us, our best friends, they've got some misinformation in their heads.

who know us, our best friends, they've got some misinformation in their heads. And the only way we can bridge that gap is by filling it ourselves and bringing people along with us so that not everyone's always against us. Does it feel like everyone's against you? It really does. It's very stressful right now. A lot of the trans folk I'm talking to, me included, are having a very hard time emotionally. We're scared. We might have to move. If we don't get the health services we require, we don't stand a chance. And we just want the opportunity to live our lives.

Leslie, you mentioned through being able to contact Mayo Clinic in Jacksonville, you are able to access care. But as we hear from Corinne, a lot of people are looking at leaving Florida that are in a position similar to yours. What are your thoughts about that? Are you planning to stay in Florida? Well, to be honest, not really at this point. You know, before finding the care that I was able to find, I'll admit that was on my mind immediately. I was considering driving over the state borders to somehow seek care, contacting relatives that I have who live in different states. Yeah, it is definitely, you know, engenders some panic. definitely, you know, engenders some panic.

Florida, you know, as far as long term, I wish I could say that I plan to stay here, but we're looking at another three years of Governor Ron DeSantis. And so I just don't really think that that's going to end up... Not if he's elected president. Oh, well, not too far. Let me ask you as a follow up i mentioned earlier in the hour uh the these laws impacting your community are not happening in a vacuum this has been a strategic coordinated effort to as i mentioned uh separate the T from the alphabet soup of LGBT. I'm quoting an activist at the Family Research Council's 2017 Values Voters Summit. And in the wake of that summit, we've

seen a wave of legislation affecting trans people. And so this is a political as well as a medical issue yes i am i definitely think that in many ways trans people have become kind of the scapegoat for uh cultural acceptance and and change uh there's always a new um a new boogeyman there's always a new enemy and you know it's always your neighbor it's always somebody who's just carrying on with their life as any normal American wants to

I would you know point out very importantly that the Stonewall riots which you know were at the beginning of Pride Month, were in part started by trans women. We have always been a part of the community. We are, and we're a part of the world. Like, we are people who have existed since the beginning of time throughout cultures. This is no different than scapegoating a racial group, a religious group, any other kind of group over something that, one, we cannot change. And two, that we have no power over, you know, legally.

We cannot just wake up and decide to detransition. We cannot just decide to ask our bodies to do things to fit in with the rest of society. We are here. This is who you are. Great. You're listening to the Florida Roundup from Florida Public Radio. This is who you are. Yeah. you living in the state of Florida, you're in Miami, obviously far from any neighboring state at the bottom of the peninsula. Where are you at with that? I have no idea. A lot of trans folks don't have, you know, family networks. I'm one of many that became homeless when I was in high school. We rely on our queer community to stand up with us and in support of friends,

but it's a big question. The future is, I have no idea where I'd go. And it's really scary. All I know is that I'm not going to make it without my hormones. So I will just have to go wherever I can continue getting what I need. And you mentioned at the beginning that you were able to get a few refills. Is that almost like a ticking clock? When you're done with that, you have to figure it out? How long do you have? It like a ticking clock when you're when you're when you're done with that you have to figure it out how long do you have it's a ticking bomb and I don't even know if they'll refill them anymore because a nurse practitioner sent those to the pharmacy for me so right now the clock kind of feels like

I've got two weeks and I'm I'm really hoping that I get more time for these things to be settled and discussed and for everyone to better understand what we're being put through because I think we're all kind of looking at a bomb that's about to blow up our lives. You know, Leslie, the last time you and I spoke on our local radio show, you pointed out that you'd known since you were a small kid that this is who you are. Can you, for our statewide audience now who doesn't believe in what you're saying, can you explain? Yeah.

This is who you've known you are since you were little. Since the earliest age. And, you know, I think there's a lot of, oh, there's this idea of like, either knew you were one way or the other. Like, I just known who I was my entire life. You know, I was not like male peers. I was not like the other male children that I was forced to socialize with. It was not something that could be taught out of me or cultured out of me

or spent enough time with the right people. It's just who I am. The older I grew and the more sort of societal context I accumulated, the more I understood myself. So I think that's kind of something that a lot of cis people might kind of miss out as far as trans identity, transgender identity. It isn't as if like we've made some kind of conscripted choice or as if that, you know, obviously. You didn't choose to be this way. No, I mean, this is what, this is just who we are. If you were to ask a six-year-old me. And I want to, not to cut you off, I want to thank you both so much. I know it's a difficult

time for you. So it means so much that you're willing to come on the radio and share your story with this audience across Florida. Corrine Mariposa, Leslie Schaefer, we wish you the best of luck and keep in touch. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Up next, people are moving to Florida in droves, but some families looking at these new laws say they might leave the state after this. Thank you. Welcome back to the Florida Roundup. I'm Melissa Ross in Jacksonville. And I'm Danny Rivero in Miami.

Well, lots of people are moving to Florida these days. In 2022, approximately 320,000 people packed their bags and flocked to the Sunshine State, boosting our population here by nearly 2 percent, according to the Census Bureau. That makes Florida the most popular state in the nation for in-migration. That's right, Danny. But at the same time, a much smaller number of people are actually looking to leave the state. And for the reasons we've been talking about, they cite the rash of the new hard right laws in Florida dealing with the LGBTQ plus community, schools, abortion and more. Recently, comedian Wanda Sykes talked about the politics of states like Florida in her Netflix special. Banning books. Well, we're protecting the kids. Well, if you really want to protect the kids, ban assault weapons. That's what's killing the kids.

Not the books i mean until a drag queen walks into a school and beats eight kids to death with a copy of to kill a mockingbird i think you're focusing on the wrong. One prominent Florida resident who's thinking about moving his family out of the state is David Jolly. Jolly, who was born and raised here, is a former Republican member of Congress and current MSNBC contributor. David, thank you so much for coming on. It's great to be with you all.

And we also want to hear your calls and comments for this section. You can call us at 305-995-1800 and tweet us at Florida Roundup. So, David, last month at an appearance on MSNBC, you said you and your wife are thinking about leaving Florida due to the hard right turn of our politics here. How did you come to this state of mind? Yeah, thank you for that question. And I kind of joke, I was trying to make a point, not make news. But at the same time, it's very true. It is something that my wife and I talk about every day now as parents of a four-year-old and two-year-old. I'm a fifth or sixth generation Floridian, depending on how you count it. And though I've worked in politics and media throughout my career, Florida is always home. And we are currently raising our kids in the Tampa Bay area.

the Tampa Bay area. I'll be honest with you, the first conversations about whether or not Florida was the right place to raise our kids came about between my wife and I for exactly the reason Wanda Sykes just spoke of, gun violence and the proliferation of guns, the relaxing of gun laws in the state of Florida. Look, I'm a first-time parent, and one of the scariest moments for any parent is the first time you walk your kid across the threshold of that schoolhouse, knowing that you are leaving them to the safety and security of others in an era in which school violence matters. My wife and I have an opportunity to have a seasonal home in very rural Pennsylvania, and so we can see the contrast between states and communities. between states and communities. But then given your last segment, that really was why we continue to talk about it, which is my wife and I come from white, evangelical, heterosexual backgrounds. But we believe in ensuring that our kids are exposed to all of the rich cultural and life diversity that is in front of us and to celebrate that diversity. And at home,

we can orient our family around the values that are right for us, but ultimately enable them as adults to make the decisions that are right for them. What we have felt in the state of Florida is that diversity of thought, that diversity of culture, not only is no longer appreciated, of thought, that diversity of culture, not only is no longer appreciated, but is being quashed and being insulted and being chained. And that's not an environment we want to bring our kids up in. We want to bring our kids up in an inclusive environment that celebrates diversity of thought first and foremost. And from there, diversity of culture. I worry about the future of Florida if we measure it on that metric. And of course, you were born and raised here, represented Florida as a Republican in Congress.

You're not someone who necessarily has views fully represented by the Democrats, but not by the current Republican Party of Florida either. What are your thoughts about that, the way the GOP has changed from a party that really used to be all about personal freedom, having less government intervention into people's personal decisions like their health care? Well, that's exactly right. This notion of the free state of Florida is really wrong. It's incorrect. You certainly don't feel freer today if you're a member of the LGBT community or you're a woman making reproductive health decisions. If you are a member or ally of the African-American community who is seeing majority minority districts be ripped away, the denial of black history in our schools and the banning of books.

If you're a migrant who now feels that you could be a victim of the governor's theater, Florida is not a freer state. And where I feel it has become more free is it has become more free to mainstream and platform some of the implicit biases that have existed since, frankly, the civil rights era, but we have tried to move the nation past. You know, Melissa, that the explicit acts of racism and discrimination are easy to see and measure, right? The flying of a Nazi flag, the hate crimes, the physical attacks, those are easy to see, as tragic as they are. But I think what we're seeing in Florida, most listeners probably feel, is a resurgence of the implicit biases that any culture tries to move past. I think under the leadership of our current governor, we are seeing the normalizing of implicit biases on race,

gender, sexual orientation, sexual preference, that as a culture, we have continued to try to grow past. We're reverting back to under Governor Ron DeSantis. You're listening to the Florida Roundup from Florida Public Radio. And I do want to go to the phones now quickly. We have Alex calling from Gainesville. Alex, thank you for calling. You're on. Hey, I was just wanting to kind of tell you guys, I am a transgender adult.

I'm a vet student at the University of Florida. I'm struggling to know if I want to leave this state to find better work out of the state or stay with my community that's here. I grew up in Volusia County. I'm from a rural area. Most people there who know that I'm trans in the rural area don't have a problem with me but it's just being like all these things that are kind of like the past course of the implicit bias is just it's gotten stronger i mean it's gotten stronger just within the past couple years because

back in 2016 there was a huge pushback when they tried to pass a bathroom bill. And the new bathroom bill that's now just got pushed through with no fight whatsoever from colleges and universities. Remember, UCF and UF fought against it, and now they don't. Yeah, the climate has shifted. David Jolly, almost out of time, and I appreciate that call from Alex. So, David Jolly, if you were to leave Florida, where would you go? Listen, we are fortunate, and this is important. My wife and I are fortunate to have other options and other opportunities, and I'm not sure every Floridian feels that today. So my wife was raised in the mid-Atlantic area.

Obviously, I have political and media relationships in D.C. and New York, but we love Florida for the same reasons that many Floridians do. We are fortunate to have choices not too many do. And so perhaps instead of leaving Florida, the answer is to change our politics in Tallahassee, ultimately change leadership in the governor's mansion. Well, I appreciate you coming on. He is former Republican Congressman David Jolly, MSNBC contributor and Florida man. David Jolly, thank you so much for being with us. Thank you. And thanks to all of our guests from this hour. It's certainly been an enlightening one, I hope, for many, many listeners out there on this issue.

Now, before we go, we want to take a moment to highlight the reporting of WUSF's Dalena Miller, who we spoke to earlier. This year, Dalena started an occasional series on queer spaces to showcase queer joy and stories of hope and resilience. Their latest story features St. Petersburg resident Sarah Smith. Sarah started a soccer meetup specifically for queer and trans people in St. Pete to bond over sports. Everyone wants to play sports. In Florida right now, trans people are being so taken out of sports so unnecessarily.

And sports are necessary. So, like, I don't know. I want trans people, I want gay people to have that. so like I don't know I want trans people I want gay people to have that now you can listen to and read the rest of the queer spaces stories as well as Dalena's series at wusfnews.org and I would encourage folks so you know Danny we got a call earlier in the hour from someone listening in and saying I just don't understand. Where can I go to read more about this? There is a wealth of information online and a number of books where you can try to understand the trans community better. And I hope that having the two guests on who shared their personal stories of their difficulties

accessing care just as Pride Month begins. I hope that helped people understand a little bit more of how this new law is affecting people's health care, Danny, here in the state of Florida. Right. And also, as I mentioned, I mean, some polls have shown a lot of the majority of people say that they don't have any transgender people in their life and they are not familiar on an intimate basis. So hopefully some of the voices that we heard from this hour help Floridians feel a little bit more familiar and more engaged in the topic because it is real. This is not a made up thing. It is not going away anywhere. And thank you for all the callers who called in this hour. We really appreciated it from across the board. Absolutely. Thanks again, everyone. It's an important topic. And as our guest explained,

not everyone is in a position to leave and move away if they can't access the care that they need. So that's something to think about as well. You can follow us on Twitter at Florida Roundup. We love to hear from you even when we're not live on the air during the show on Friday. Let us know your thoughts about this at Florida Roundup on Twitter. And thanks so much for being with us and listening. That's our show. The Florida Roundup is produced by WJCT Public Media in Jacksonville and WLRN Public Media in Miami. Heather Schatz and Bridget O'Brien are producers. WLRN's vice president of radio is Peter J. Meritz. Richard Ives is our Technical Director. Engineering help from Doug Peterson, Charles Michaels, and Isabella Da Silva.

Ariana Otero answers the phones. Our theme music is provided by Miami jazz guitarist Aaron Libos at AaronLibos.com. I'm Danny Rivero. And I'm Melissa Ross. Thanks for listening. We'll be back next Friday at noon.