The Florida Roundup - Black leaders rally in Tally; remaking New College; what is ESG and why does the governor want to ban it?

Episode Date: February 17, 2023

Hundreds of Black leaders rallied in the state capital this week to denounce Gov. Ron DeSantis. New College’s interim President Richard Corcoran gets a pay bump of nearly $400,000 over his predecessor. What is ESG investing and why does the governor want to ban it?

Welcome to the Florida Roundup and thanks for listening. I'm Melissa Ross in Jacksonville. And I'm Danny Rivero in Miami. Black lawmakers, activists, and the Reverend Al Sharpton marched in Tallahassee this week. Right here, we had to fight segregation. You're going to tell the whole story. Right here at Miami Beach, we couldn't go to the beach until we marched, until we sat in and went to jail. You're going to tell the whole story. You're not going to give no part-time story to our story. Our children need to know the whole story. The rally in Talley was an escalation of their ongoing criticism of Governor Ron DeSantis and the state's rejection of a new college board advanced placement course in African-American studies. Activists say DeSantis is harming education in the state,

all as part of a bid to increase his profile in a planned run for president next year. Now, for his part, Governor DeSantis is doubling down on the controversy, saying he may look to end Florida's relationship with the college board and their AP classes altogether. The board administers advanced placement classes for high school students, along with the SAT test. We're going to begin the hour here on the Florida Roundup with a closer look at the ongoing war over education in Florida and why some see it as a proxy war for other things. And the number to call us is 305-995-1800. Call us up live statewide or tweet us at Florida Roundup. As we welcome Dwight Bullard, former Democratic state senator

and political advisor for Florida Rising. Good afternoon. Good afternoon. Thanks for having me. Good to have you. We should note we did also reach out to the governor's office, but didn't get a response

as we talk about these issues. So, Dwight, the rejection of this AP course in African-American studies has become a national controversy and it's become a rallying point for the black community against the DeSantis administration this week in Tallahassee. That was a big part of the rally, but not the only complaint activists had. What were some of the what was some of the rhetoric that was said in Tallahassee? What's the message the rallyers want to get out? Well, we want to get out that it's bigger than just the one class. It's bigger than the AP course.

The AP course is the latest really attack on black identity, black history, black existence from the DeSantis administration. Whether it's the insertion of the governor and the redrawing of maps that eliminated black congressional districts, whether it was the attack on the First Amendment stemming from the protest in the aftermath of the murder of George Floyd, protests in the aftermath of the murder of George Floyd, whether it is the extension of attacks on other historically marginalized communities, what the rally was, was really a clarion call to anyone that will listen that we're, in the words of Fannie Lou Hamer, sick and tired of being sick and tired. that we're, in the words of Fannie Lou Hamer, sick and tired of being sick and tired. It's 305-995-1800.

The governor claims he took issue with this course because he claims it seeks to impose an ideology or a political agenda on students. That has also been his argument with a number of other controversial moves he's made. You see all of this as a systemic assault on education in the Black community. What's your response to the voters out there who disagree and who overwhelmingly reelected this governor? Well, I want to contextualize that the governor did not receive many more votes than he received back in 2018. So although he won by a larger margin, it's not as though the majority of Floridians are wholly endorsing these attacks. For those that have been consistent and even new supporters of Governor DeSantis, a lot of their support kind of stems from singular issues or issues

that they feel are of greater concern. But if you were to poll those individuals around what is CRT, they would have no real definition. What we're seeing is the absolute necessity of why CRT came to be, and that is to understand why systemic racism still persists. And what we're seeing by these attacks by Governor DeSantis is just a blanket racist bigoted attack on, again, just wholesale identity of people. As a former teacher in Miami County Public Schools and someone who's taught black history,

I can tell you that there's nothing in the AP curriculum or in the curriculum that is pre-existed or predating the AP curriculum that is controversial. What it is is a truth that people don't wanna confront around the real complete and holistic history of America. As you mentioned, everything from halting funding for diversity, equity and inclusion at publicly funded Florida colleges, erasing a majority black congressional district in North Florida, an election police force that's gone after disproportionately African-Americans. A lot of those cases in Florida have already been dropped.

The anti-riot law blocked in the courts for being overly broad. The Stop Woke Act, which bans corporations from requiring diversity and inclusion trainings in Florida, those have been struck down as a violation of the First Amendment. Some other moves by the governor have been challenged on First Amendment grounds. You've said before that you see all of these moves, particularly in the educational space, as a campaign tactic by Governor DeSantis as he seeks the nomination for president next year. How are these tactics likely to play before a national audience, in your view? Well, it's unfortunate that the governor is courting the worst of us. He's playing to the cheap seats. He's trying to incite and create a fervor among people

who have unfortunately had a disdain for the other or the othering of America in hopes that that group of folks will turn out overwhelmingly in support of him as a presidential nominee. Last time I checked, most presidents of the United States wanted to be the president of the entire United States. So it's unfortunate that the governor is choosing to use this line or this tactic to try to ingratiate himself

with one segment of the population that he feels are his people. If he were to check the stats, the state of Florida has a significant number of black, Latino, gay, lesbian, bisexual, handicapped, you name it, types of people. And what they're looking for is leadership from an actual governor who cares about them. What Governor DeSantis has proven time and time again is that he's only concerned about his own ambitions and his longer desires. Our number is 305-995-1800. That's 305-995-1800.

I want to go to the phones now. We have John calling from Miami. John, thank you so much for calling on. You're on. Hi, good morning, and thank you for taking my call. I just wanted to say that I think that pretending that there isn't a large portion of minority support for Governor DeSantis is a big mistake. There is a huge, huge portion of Black and Hispanic and all kinds of people that support what Governor DeSantis is doing. And you cannot break down people by their identity in the way that I think your speaker is trying to do. I also think that education needs to be educational. And I think that there's a lot of reform that's needed.

I think the public education system has been failing for a long time. And I think that any courses or classes that are brought into the schools need to be non-political by nature. And that's it. I'll take my answers off the bar. Thank you, John. Dwight, to John's question, Florida does and has for a long time mandated the teaching of African-American history. history. And under DeSantis, it did actually expand that mandate to require students learn about the Election Day massacre in Ocoee in 1920. So the administration and a lot of the governor's supporters argue that they are strongly pro-African American history in the classroom, just not for what they call indoctrination.

Well, to kind of speak to what the caller spoke of and also answer your question, when I was in the state legislature, and this still holds true today, there are only about 12 districts that are batting above average in terms of the teaching of African-American history based on the 94 mandate that you speak of. When the caller talks about the education system failing, I want to remind folks that Florida's had a right-wing trifecta of governors over the last 20-plus years, starting with Jeb Bush and now ending with Ron DeSantis,

that have had unilateral control over the direction of where education has gone. So this notion of mass indoctrination or education going off the rails, how can one party control the curriculum for that long, and then now in 2023 make the claim that education is too woke or has gone too far to the left. So basically saying if they've controlled it, how is it that kids are being indoctrinated? I want to go back to the phones, 305-995-1800.

Adam calling from Miami Beach. You're on. Hi. I just wanted to say that I think as badly as everyone is portraying this, what Governor DeSantis is doing is actually much, much worse. I have two children, one who attended the Miami-Dade public schools, one who's still in the Miami-Dade schools. It's an amazing, wonderful system with neighborhood schools and with magnet schools. And even beyond that, there are AP classes where students can get college-level education in science and math and history and art and foreign languages. And it is unbelievable that

the governor is threatening to cancel all of those or millions of students because he has some kind of dispute with the college board. I took AP courses and it helped me in college. It helped me 45 years ago when I was in school and to make a threat against all of the students of Florida when his target is the New Hampshire primary voters. It's unbelievable to put his political career above all of the students of Florida. Thank you. Hey, I want to ask you about that, Dwight. The governor's saying he might just cut ties with the college board altogether. They, of course, administer AP classes to high school students, the SAT test as well. What about this? Well, I agree with the last caller, the idea that the governor's

putting his own political ambitions above the education of a multitude of students across the state of Florida. As the caller pointed out, when I was in high school, when he was in high school, AP courses have been offered for a long time in a number of different subjects, including European history, Spanish language and culture, German language and culture, Japanese language and culture. So the idea that the governor has now has a beef with the college board goes back to the fact that when he was in high school, there were AP courses that were offered that he might have been able to take advantage of. So I don't know where this newfound disdain for the College Board comes from, other than the fact that they just fundamentally disagree with the governor sticking his hands in something he has no business sticking his hands in,

which is education. It was remarkable to see the College Board initially acquiesce and revise the African American Studies curriculum. The state rejected that revised curriculum, and now the College Board is essentially, I don't know how else to say this, trash-talking Governor DeSantis in this ongoing spat. In your view, how do you feel the College Board is handling this matter? Well, unfortunately, the College Board should have spoken out earlier, in my opinion. I mean, when they went back and said that we'll revise African-American history to meet the governor's concerns, that was where they made their first mistake. Because as we found in America, you can't negotiate with someone who's terrorizing a

particular subject matter. And that's what the governor's doing. He is being petty. He's being petulant in his approach. Instead of allowing education to be what it's always been, which is open dialogue, the expansion of critical thinking, and the ability for children and parents to have open discussion about subject matters that, guess what, are sometimes uncomfortable. But those are important for us to create progress and forward

movement. Phil in Fort Lauderdale. Go ahead, Phil. Thanks for holding. You're on the air. Absolutely. Thank you, everybody. I just want to say that this is an absolute petty use of this governor's power and a career play for presidency. Of course, this is just him pandering to a lot of Trump's leftover supporters. And, you know, I just have to ask the question, how did we get here? You know, already the rest of the country looks at us with such a stigma, you know, especially like in so many ways, not, you know, not just this issue, but to go into detail, the progress for the state is going backwards. And it's just a sad state to see this. And I'm surprised that, you know, a college board is even, you know, lacking on making a comment or, you know, allowing this.

But, yeah, I just I just really want this to I want this state to move forward and we need this huge change and to move away from any type of negativity like this. Thanks for that, Dwight. I'll, you know, go back to the top. We were talking about the this rally in Talley this week. A lot of the talk on that was about the potential presidential election. The story of black power in Florida has for a long time been about turnout. In 2018, black voters showed up in huge numbers, almost got Democrat Andrew Gillum, the governor mentioned. And a few months ago, you know, the turnout was significantly down for black voters. And we saw the margin for DeSantis really widen. I mean, is this something that can motivate black voters to come out? You would hope so. But, you know, Governor DeSantis has done quite a good job of suppressing the black vote, as I mentioned at the top.

The, you know, the dismantling of historic black districts in North Florida, the election police, the public arrest of returning citizens who exercise their right to vote, despite being okayed by his administration and given the right to vote. And so it's these kinds of tactics that you're seeing that are causing great concern and a level of voter suppression, especially among the African American constituency. We would hope that this moment will be a rallying cry for Black voters, but more importantly than just Black voters, all voters. As the caller said before, we need to get past this as a state. We need to get past the pettiness, need to get past personal ambition and get back to a notion of someone running to be governor and thus governing the state of Florida and wanting to do best by the people of Florida.

And I want to go back to the phones now. We have Gloria calling from Tampa. Gloria, thanks for calling. You're on the line here. Thank you. Thank you. I'm here. Please go ahead. You're on. Thank you. I sincerely think that education should be broad. Black history is so important in the United States and the whole world. It's a race that suffers so much. And we shouldn't be divided.

We call Christians ourselves. We should love everybody. We should accept everybody. We should accept the history of everybody and not be afraid. Thank you so much for the call. Dwight, any last thoughts? We only have a few seconds to go. Dwight, any last thoughts? We only have a few seconds to go. Just simply put, we want everyone to kind of see the importance of this moment. The rally was one that was multiracial in terms of its participants. I'm so sorry. We have to cut you off. Dwight Bullard. Yeah, Dwight Bullard. Thank you. More of your calls and tweets in a bit on the Florida Roundup from Florida Public Radio.

We'll be right back. Welcome back to the Florida Roundup. I'm Danny Rivero in Miami. And I'm Melissa Ross in Jacksonville. Well, a newly remade board of trustees at New College of Florida in Sarasota voted this week to give interim President Richard Corcoran a pay bump of nearly $400,000 over his predecessor. The board decided that Corcoran, a former Florida House speaker and state education commissioner, will receive a base salary at the small college of $699,000 a year, plus other benefits. That's twice the amount that was paid to the school's former president, who was recently ousted. And it's part of the DeSantis administration's controversial push to remake education in the state at the K-12 level and on higher learning campuses. Divya Kumar covers higher education for the Tampa Bay Times, and she joins us now. Divya, thanks for coming on. Thank you for having me. Absolutely. And I want to

mention you can call us, those of you listening out there, at 305-995-1800. Again, that's 305-995-1800. And you can also tweet us at the Florida Roundup. So Divya, I mean, just top level question. Why is the governor and his administration specifically working on higher education at New College in Sarasota? working on higher education at New College in Sarasota? Yeah, I think at the time that these high profile trustees were announced, they kind of gave a few reasons, one being enrollment at New College, two being the financial situation at New College, which has been debated to some degree, and the other being the culture at New College and wanting to bring the college back to its statutory mission.

And I think there's been some discussion on what that culture actually looks like. And Richard Corcoran will now be getting a salary of about $700,000 a year to run a school that has about 700 students, which amounts to about $1,000 per student. I mean, is that kind of ratio normal for a higher education, a state higher education school? for a higher education, a state higher education school? It's definitely not typical within Florida. I think like you mentioned, his predecessor who came into office in 2021 was making $305,000 at UF.

Ben Sasse, who was picked more recently this year, he is making a base salary of around a million, and I think there's about 60,000 students at UF. Might be misspeaking a little bit there. At USF, Rhea Law has a base salary of $655,000. There's about a little under 50,000 students there. Florida State University, which Richard Corcoran had previously applied to, the president there has a base salary of about $700,000 a year. And I think there's a little to New College is probably Florida Polytechnic. And I think the president there makes around 478. And can you give us just a little bit of background of Richard Corcoran? He's not brand new to education in Florida.

We don't have to go too deep into the weeds of it, but just tell us a little bit about who he is and what role he's played here. Definitely. And I think some of my colleagues, Jeff Solichek has probably reported a lot more on that, but he was picked by DeSantis to be education commissioner in 2018. And so a lot of his term was kind of marked by pandemic related things, keeping classrooms open, mask mandates. I think there was a lot of bringing the state into education. He also, while education commissioner, did apply to become Florida State University's president in 2021. And then he stepped down in 2022. And what are we hearing from politicians, people in the community, et cetera, about the decision to put Corcoran in the position to lead New College with, you know, this

pretty outstanding ratio for his student to salary? Right. I think there's a lot of students, faculty, parents who are very upset, who feel like, you know, this is not what they signed up for. They see this as a very political move. I think there are politicians on the left who spoke at the meeting. I think Anna Eskamani, who called this grift. I think people who support it feel like he's the guy for the job and they feel like he's best suited to carry out this mission. It's 305-995-1800 here on the florida roundup as we talk about the ways the governor is remaking education in the state 305-995-1800 so new college has known has been known for decades now as a unique kind of progressive school in Florida with a stellar academic reputation.

We've been hearing for some weeks now that students have been reacting negatively to this takeover by the new board of trustees and wondering what you're hearing about. What's the mood on campus this week, especially with Corcoran's entrance into the scene? Yeah, so I actually personally haven't been to campus this week. But from what I've been hearing, I think, you know, there is a lot of frustration, disappointment. I think, you know, there have been protests. Students continue, plan to continue protesting. There are students who are looking to leave um if they're able to um i think there's the sense that this is not the school they signed up for this is not the

education that they signed up for you know richard corcoran uh has been a highly conservative figure in Florida education for some years now. And he and other figures in the conservative movement have framed this takeover of New College as part of a larger effort to remake education in Florida and beyond in a more conservative mold. How do you see what's playing out on the new college campuses as part of what we're seeing, this overall push on a number of fronts to shift educational priorities much farther to the right than they perhaps have been in the past. And critics say, critics worry to actually dismantle public education at the K through 12 level. What are people saying to you about some of these perceptions? Right. I think, you know, there is kind of that sense of what is the bigger picture that people are kind of wondering about. I think there is a lot of fear, particularly from faculty, about, you know, what that kind of looks like.

I think, you know, the governor did mention New College as kind of part of his vision to reform higher education. And so I think it is kind of part of the bigger push to sort of reimagine what that looks like in the state. And I'm wondering, too, will we see more resistance, I guess, from donors and business groups if these kinds of moves are attempted at some of the bigger research institutions in Florida, the big public universities like UF, FSU, where faculty are tenured and have been vocal, at least until quite recently, about their concerns about what's happening on college campuses? That's a good question. I think a lot of it sort of remains to kind of be seen. I think a lot of faculty feel like that there are sort of union contracts in place that, you know, could prevent major immediate changes. But I think a lot of people are sort of wondering what sort of happens or how it all plays out. And let me ask you as a follow up. Professors

have tenure. The governor has talked about looking at ways to weaken tenure in Florida. What's the likelihood of that being successful? Do you know? Right. I guess I know last year the bill to sort of or I guess it's law now to kind of implement these five yearyear tenure reviews was passed. And the Board of Governors still hasn't adopted that regulation, but I think it's coming up that would sort of allow university provosts to kind of make that call. But every tenured faculty of make that call, but every tenured faculty would sort of undergo this review. And if they're sort of deemed not satisfactory, they could be let go. But I think that there's some, like, there was some discussion on whether there would be a, what the timeline would look like for them

to improve or if it was a sufficient timeline. And so that was kind of passed last year. But the governor this year said he had a proposal to be able to kind of call those reviews at any point in time for tenured faculty, which a lot of faculty feel like, well, then that doesn't really mean tenure exists. And that doesn't really mean tenure exists. And I think the people who support it say that it increases accountability. But I think people who kind of worry what that means is that it's kind of like taking away the ability to sort of pursue research that might not have immediate payoff or kind of curtail academic freedom and free speech within their disciplines if they sort of say something that might violate the spirit of a

different law. We're talking about higher education in Florida, different shifts going on, especially at New College in Sarasota. You can call us at 305-995-1800. That's 305-995-1800. I want to go to Marco calling from Miami. Marco, thanks for calling. You're on. Thank you. Yes. You know, I just feel like this governor doesn't have the interest of the people of Florida in his mind, and what he is doing is he's given this Corrigan a soft landing since he's termed limited and has to get out of the state legislature. We're going to look back at these times as this governor being the worst governor that the state of Florida has ever seen. He's almost like a George Wallace type of – he reminds me of George Wallace standing in the way of integration.

And his stand on history, I mean, he's really off base. The people of Florida should really be worried about this guy. He's really almost, you know, a righteous fascist. And we're going to see this in the history as the bad, worst time, worst governor the state has ever seen. Thank you. Thank you. Now I want to go to Herman calling from Gainesville. Thank you for calling, Herman.

You're on. Yes. What I have said previously to your other person on the line was that the more that Florida looks different from other universities and across the country, the less attractive the universities become both for faculty and for student enrollment. And to take any kind of radical position of control as much as apparently done now in both at the university level and public school level, this does not make Florida very attractive or contentious.

And people will hesitate and think about whether or not they want to take positions in the state. Got it. Thank you. Thank you for calling, Herman. You're listening to the Florida Roundup from Florida Public Radio. Divya, I do want to ask you a question. The DeSantis administration is urging lawmakers to pump more money into new college in order to make this transformation into a more conservative campus happen. How much more additional money are we talking about here? Yeah, I think, you know, this week they talked about $15 million for this first year. And then

I know previously, I think he mentioned there'd be sort of a recurring $10 million that comes to the school. And I think, you know, he sort of said their plan is to put their money where their mouth is. Marnie in Wellington, Florida. Hello, Marnie. Hi. So I have two kids. One is graduating from UF this spring, and my other graduated from New College a few years ago. And at any of the big state schools, a white Christian kid can find their way, right?

They can find clubs and teams and fraternities and sororities, and they're going to find somewhere they fit in. and fraternities and sororities, and they're going to find somewhere they fit in. What makes New College so special is that the majority of the kids there just don't fit in anywhere else. And at New College, these kids can be themselves. They are individualized. They don't just sign up for courses. At the start of each semester, they sit down with their faculty advisor, and they come up with a plan for what classes they're going to take and what their goals will be for each class.

And at the end of the semester, they either satisfy their contract or they don't. They don't get letter grades. My daughter, they have to do like a thesis to graduate my daughter transferred Russian poetry into English for her thesis an author named Pushkin what my daughter accomplished but most of all

this school has no fraternities no Greek life they have no teams except sailing their mascot is the, infinity sign or something. Or the null sign. And, Marnie, not to cut you off, but a lot of that is going to change. And quickly, your thoughts about that. Right.

And it's criminal. And I think the only reason DeSantis is doing it is because there's only 700 kids. And they're disposable. It's a small school yeah i want to thank you marnie i i i appreciate the call we're getting tight on time divya kumar is that why this is being done because new college is so small i guess like i don't you know i i you know I've heard people kind of say like that's what sort of makes them like a target I think you know people from the other side are

saying well no the school had issues before and they're there to fix them yeah I think that's some financial there were some financial issues we need to make sure that's given voice. So what are your final thoughts about this and what we can expect there in the coming weeks? And I think, you know, the tensions are not really something that are kind of going to be easily washed over. So I think kind of watching as things unfold, I think will really be really be interesting. Well, thanks for your reporting. Divya Kumar covers higher education for the Tampa Bay Times. Thank you. And in a moment, what is ESG and why does the governor want to ban it? We'll explain next on the Florida Roundup from Florida Public Radio. We'll be right back. Welcome back to the Florida Roundup. I'm Danny Rivero in Miami. And I'm Melissa Ross in Jacksonville.

Well, Governor DeSantis says he will propose legislation that would bar Florida and its local governments from using what's known as ESG. That's environmental, social and governance criteria when issuing municipal bonds. It's an expansion of his push against what he has called a woke agenda. DeSantis released new details on Monday about his plan to require that state and local government investments only be guided on what he calls potential returns. The governor previously said that the state's asset managers must stop using ESG investing strategies if they want to keep overseeing Florida's money, which includes over $220 billion in state pension funds. However, some analysts say that could cost Florida taxpayers potentially hundreds of millions of

dollars in secret costs per year if the state advances this bill. More on ESG and how it could impact different levels of Florida. We welcome Ken Russell. He's a former member of the City of Miami Commission, and now he's the director of U.S. Public Sector Engagement and Development at Longevity Partners, a financial firm that works in ESG. Ken, welcome on the show. Thanks for having me, Danny. And we want to hear from you for this from this segment. You can call us at 305-995-1800. That's 305-995-1800. And you can tweet us at the Florida Roundup. So, Ken, let's start with the basics here. Governor DeSantis says that ESG is really a kind of dystopian Chinese style social credit system that's not concerned at all with getting results for investors and returns

for investors. And so it should be stopped. In your mind, and I ask because it's not settled, it's not written anywhere. I mean, what is the definition of ESG? Do you agree with the governor's definition? Sure. Well, yeah, we need to start there. We need to start with do we believe there's climate change, that there's global warming and that global greenhouse gas emissions contribute to that. Well, the world of finance and corporations have decided that, yes, these are things they need to and want to address voluntarily. The industry is going towards environmental, social, and corporate governance metrics to make sure that they're doing good for the world as they do good for their bottom line. This idea that you have to have a binary choice between the environment or business is misplaced. It's good for politics, but the truth about ESG is it's actually very good for business. And is there one firm set of businesses that's like locked in that they are blocked from getting

finance from capital if banks or institutions are using ESG criteria? Like for example, If banks or institutions are using ESG criteria, like, for example, oil and gas companies, they might not have access to some kind of loans or firearm producers, private prison companies. Like, is there a set, you know, number of industries that might not be able to work with financial institutions? Well, it's not really about trying to block out certain sectors of industry. It's really about fund and fund managers deciding where they want to put their money. And their investors having the choice of investing in funds that put their money in responsible places. So it's not that by investing responsibly, we're going to hurt business. There is a way to actually show that you're improving it. Now, 90% of the S&P are utilizing ESG metrics. This is nothing new.

It started nearly 20 years ago. The United Nations asked a group of financial institutions around the world to come up with a report about this. And that's where ESG was basically invented. And the title of that report was Who Cares Wins. And they're talking about bottom line, not just the planet. And I mean, to that point, why now? I mean, Texas passed a law two years ago, really kickstarting states in the US talking about it. It's become, you know, last year it was CRT, now it's ESG. We have to learn these new acronyms. I mean, why are we talking about this now? Yes, it's certainly

nothing new, but the attack on it is. And if Governor DeSantis is taking a page from Governor Abbott's playbook, Governor Abbott started this over a year ago. His motivations were a little different. And he says blatantly that his position against ESG is more about protecting the fossil fuel industry, which apparently polls well in Texas. In Florida, Governor DeSantis is purportedly protecting investors against a woke fraud. You'd have to ask him why he's doing this, but it's certainly not helping his investors. You'd have to ask him why he's doing this, but it's certainly not helping his investors. Their municipalities and their bond underwriters are relying on ESG metrics nationwide and globally at this point. And to try to block them out of that market will actually disenfranchise or disable, handicap Florida investors. disable, handicap Florida investors. And so the governor says that he's using this, that someone using this criteria for investing is actually a woke agenda in disguise. Let's hear a quick

bite of what he had to say. Basically, I think what it's devolved into is a mechanism to inject political ideology into investment decisions, corporate governance, and really just the everyday economy. That is not ultimately something that is going to work out well for us here in Florida or in the United States of America. So, I mean, I want to ask you, the governor, in some ways, he's hitting certain populist notes. He's saying, you know, these banks, these people are not elected. They're controlling our lives. We need to roll them back.

I mean, I just want to ask you, he's a conservative saying that. A lot of times you hear people on the far left using some of the same arguments. I mean, what do you make of a Republican conservative governor saying these banks control too much of our lives? We've got to rein them in. Well, the irony is he's trying to

control their intentions of how they place their money. They want the freedom of how they invest their money. And Governor DeSantis is telling them that he's going to put in controls on how they do it. Now, if the financial industry, which is traditionally a very conservative institution, wants to put their money in places that reduce carbon emissions, greenhouse gas emissions, to put their money in places that reduce carbon emissions, greenhouse gas emissions, that should be their choice. There shouldn't be a mandate against that from the government. This is certainly government overreach into the financial sector. They wouldn't be doing this if it didn't suit their bottom line, and they've decided that

it does. You can't go on any multinational company's webpage now, whether it's an airline or a bank, and not find ESG criteria and objectives. And it's a good thing. You're listening to the Florida Roundup from Florida Public Radio. Well, Ken, a recent study from researchers at the Wharton School of Business and even the Federal Reserve found that a similar measure passed in Texas recently drove up taxes on the voters there. If this were to happen in Florida, would we see the same dynamic play out? Would Florida voters be paying more on interest payments? Would we see a financial hit here? Absolutely. The Wall Street Journal also

reported on this, that in Texas, because of their anti-ESG positioning and the way it had an effect on municipal bond ratings, even Texas, which has a AAA credit rating, is paying nearly 20% more on their bonds that they issue than California with a AA. And so these policies actually hurt finance, hurt industry, hurt the investors and try to manipulate and control a market that is otherwise freely moving in this direction. We're talking about ESG and why Governor DeSantis is opposed to it. Drew in Wildwood, Florida. Hi, Drew, you're on the air. Hi. Yes, I think we have a common theme here, whether we're talking about suppressing the activity of industry, business, corporate interest in bringing to attention the issues of the environment,

science, essentially, and the importance of how that informs us and how we do our business, but also education and trying to control the narrative, trying to control the conversation. One thought I've had that kind of touches on this, a strategy perhaps of what we can do, and I'm not quite sure how that could play out with new college, but perhaps in this way. It's occurred to me that we're dealing with kind of a, in a way, kind of like book burning, the banning of books and this kind of thing, suppressing of information and controlling the narrative, controlling the conversation. and controlling the narrative, controlling the conversation. And one thought I've had is to do a public marathon reading of Fahrenheit 451. Well, Drew, thanks for that suggestion.

Ken Russell, we're almost out of time. What are your final thoughts about this and what we might expect? Well, I don't think it's going to have a large impact on the financial industry. I think this is more about political positioning and speaking to a certain base about woke ideology. And this is not woke ideology. Stakeholder capitalism is capitalism. And yes, banks need regulations, but not when they're trying to do something good. There's no reason to hold them back. And, you know, it's interesting, too, given that Florida is really recruiting some of these big financial titans to set up shop here. Absolutely. And we at Longevity Partners, this is a global firm that helps companies figure out their ESG pathway and their net zero carbon pathway to being better corporate stewards of the environment and our planet. This is more profitable. It's more productive for your employees. You get more profitability and better retention. There's no reason not to go this direction.

And you all just opened an office here in Florida, correct? Yes. I've opened their first office in Miami. Their U.S. base is in Austin, Texas. So do you think then that this will actually come to pass in this state, or is it just rhetoric at this point? Well, if you look at the wording of the proposed legislation, it's not very specific. It says that, you know, prohibiting banks that engage in corporate activism from holding government funds. How do you define corporate activism? You know, that prohibit the use of ESG in all investment decisions at the local level.

How are they going to make cities who have home rule from using any metric in their decision-making process? So I don't know. I don't know if this will pass the legislature or if it'll get struck down later. Or not. But so good to get your insights. Ken Russell of Longevity Partners, as we talk about ESG and what that might mean. Thanks so much for being with us today on the Florida Roundup. We appreciate it. Thanks for covering it. And that is our show. The Florida Roundup is produced by WJCT Public Media in Jacksonville and WLRN Public Media in Miami. Brendan Rivers and Natu Tway are show producers.

WLRN's vice president of radio and our technical director is Peter Mayers. Engineering help from Doug Peterson, Charles Michaels, and Isabella Da Silva. Richard Ives answers the phones. Our theme music is provided by Miami jazz guitarist Aaron Libos at AaronLibos.com. I'm Danny Rivero. And I'm Melissa Ross. Thanks for listening, calling, and tweeting, and make it a great weekend. Thank you.