The Florida Roundup - Florida challenges NFL’s ‘Rooney Rule,' gas leaf blowers, birthright citizenship, Artemis II

Episode Date: April 3, 2026

This week on The Florida Roundup, we were joined by former NFL head coach Tony Dungy to talk about the state’s challenge to the league’s ‘Rooney Rule’ (01:10). Then, we spoke about the corrosion of trust among neighbors and how we can better foster community with author Maxwell King (21:00). Plus, WUSF’s Douglas Soule joins us to talk about a new state law that prohibits local governments from banning gas-powered leaf blowers (32:36). And later, we hear from one Florida family that is closely watching the Supreme Court’s hearing on birthright citizenship (37:30) and look at the Artemis II launch (43:00).

Support for Florida Roundup comes from the Everglades Foundation, working to restore and protect Florida's $1 trillion asset that helps to bring clean water to Floridians. Learn more at Everglades Foundation.org. This is the Florida Roundup. I'm Tom Hudson. Great to have you along this week. Today is Good Friday. It's also Passover. It's a time of community and reflection. So it's as good of a day as any to talk about what we think about each other. You know, it's become commonplace to describe America as divided. divisive and dismissive of each other. A new international survey also finds we don't think very highly of the values of each other either. A majority of Americans think their fellow citizens' morality is bad. We're going to talk about this a little bit later on in the program. So what does it mean to be morally good? And do you believe your neighbor is morally good? Email us now with your thoughts. Radio at the Florida roundup.org. You know, we've seen how the culture war plays out here in Florida over public education.

library books, diversity, equity, and inclusion efforts. So send us your thoughts, radio at the Florida Roundup.org. First, though, the latest front in Florida's so-called war on woke takes on the NFL. Attorney General James Uthmeyer says the league's Rooney Rule is against state law. The League's rule encourages NFL teams to interview non-white candidates for senior jobs, including head coaching positions. The NFL's use of the Rooney Rule violates Florida law by requiring race-based consideration. in hiring. Florida law is clear. Hiring decisions cannot be based on race. Uthmeyer wrote a letter

to NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell last week claiming the practice, quote, brazenly violates Florida law. But this week after NFL owners held their annual meeting, the commissioner said there is no effort to change. The Rooney rule is not a hiring mandate. It's intended to try to help. The son of the namesake of the rule, Art Rooney the second of the Pittsburgh. Steelers echoed that description. There was no action taken just a statement from the Florida Attorney General. So, you know, probably have some conversations with the Attorney General down there just to make sure he understands what exactly we do. It's not a hiring rule. The Attorney General did threaten civil action, though, if the NFL does not remove the Rooney Rule in Florida,

at least. The AG here took aim at the League's employee training program as well. Uthmaier wrote to the NFL, quote, stop discriminating based on race. Stop discriminating based on sex. Interview, hire, and train based on merit, end quote. Now, Florida has three NFL teams, Tampa, Jacksonville, and Miami. One of the three black head coaches in the league currently is here in Florida, Todd Bowles, with the Buccaneers. So what do you think about the Rooney Rule and how it is practiced on the sidelines and the front offices of your favorite teams? What do you think about the Florida, Jr.:, claiming the practice is discriminatory and against state law. 305-9-9-8100 statewide on this Friday, 305-9-9-5-1800.

Send us a quick email, radio at the Florida Roundup.org. Tony Dungey is along with us, the first black head coach to win a Super Bowl, a Hall of Famer, Tampa Bay Area resident, and, of course, coach won the Super Bowl with the Indianapolis Colts, the coaching career, Tony, of course, began here in Florida, the head coaching career with the Tampa Bay Buccaneers. Tony, welcome to the program. Thanks for your time.

Hey, thank you very much. Good to be with you. We really appreciate it. How do you describe the Rooney Rule in terms of whether or not it's a requirement or a recommendation? Well, the Rooney Rule is an aid. It was supposed to be an aid in helping people find the best candidates. And I totally get what the Attorney General is saying. hiring should be based on merit. And I think that's what this rule is all about,

but it was to help discover people who might be merited to get jobs. So I think the spirit of the rule was excellent. I'm not a fan of how it's being implemented and how it's being used today. But I worked for Dan Rooney in Pittsburgh, and I know his heart, and I know what he wanted to see the rule do, and I think it's a good rule. Yeah, I want to play you some sound from January of 2020. This was on the sidelines of the 49ers and Packers NFC championship game right before the pandemic. So going back a few years here, Tony.

But your criticism of the Rooney Rule is not just reason. This is something you were talking about back in January of 2020. It really is not working like Dan Rooney envisioned it. Dan put this, helped get this rule started. And his idea was that an owner, would have a system, what he wanted in place. He would have an idea of the type of coach he'd want, and then he'd research that.

I think people are using the interview to check the box, not really going after what really fits their situation. That was you on NBC back in January of 2020, still criticizing the rule here today in terms of how it's being carried out. Why is that? Well, Dan's process, and he followed that. He had a formula in mind.

he hired three coaches in, I want to say, 40 some years. And they all turned out to be fantastic. But he had a formula. He wanted a defensive coach. He wanted a young coach. He wanted a teacher and encourager. He laid all that out. And he hired Chuck Nolan in 1969.

In 1992, he hired Bill Cowher. And then in 2006, he was looking for another coach. And so he laid those parameters out. But then he said, I want to specifically. try to research the minority candidates because I don't know all of those candidates. So let me find and do some research on who fits this bill and interview a couple of minority candidates. He interviewed Mike Tomlin, who fit the bill perfectly. He ended up hiring Mike and Mike coached 18 years there and took the Steelers to a couple of Super Bowls. That was how it was supposed to be in

place. What has happened over the years is people have said, I just need to interview a minority candidate to satisfy the rule, and then I can go about looking for what I really want. And that is not the way Dan Rooney envisited. That's not how it should be done. And it's not going to be helpful to try to implement the rule that way. What do you make of the case of Brian Flores, the black head coach who was fired by the Miami Dolphins, who has since sued several teams, the league claiming discrimination. And he says that the league is, quote, rife with racism. The NFL

is denied wrongdoing. This is a case that is many years in the making and is still ongoing through the federal civil rights process here. What do you make of his complaint and his experience that led to this lawsuit? Well, Brian Florey is a

very good coach. He's in a position where he should be considered for some of these jobs. But I think with this lawsuit hanging over the heads, I think owners are very wary of saying, I don't know if I'm going to hire a coach who may be suing me and may be suing the NFL. So I think that adds a little something to it. I don't really think there's what you would say is absolute racism per se involved in the hiring process. I don't think there's owners out there who are saying, I really want to win a Super Bowl.

I really want to have the best team that I can have for my fans, but I don't want to have a black coach or a minority coach. I don't think that happens. I think what does happen is you have a lot of people in the decision-making process as owners who really don't. It's not their number one business. They haven't made their fortune by having a football team. And they don't know necessarily what goes into being a good coach. They know what they've heard in the media. They know people who have been around their building.

People have been around them. So they may not have all the ammunition they know. need to do a great job in hiring. But I just don't think we're at the point anymore where people are saying, you know, I want to win, but I don't want to win with minorities. Yeah. We're speaking with Tony Dungey, former NFL coach in Indianapolis and Tampa Bay, won a Super Bowl in Indianapolis for its black coach to do so, talking about the Rooney Rule, the effort in the NFL to diversify the talent pool for head coaches, business executives, and other top coaches, The Attorney General here in Florida, James Uthmire, has claimed that the Rooney Rule violates state law.

305-995-1800 is the phone number if you want to join the conversation. Coach, you mentioned you knew Dan Rooney. You played in Pittsburgh. Dan Rooney was the president of the Pittsburgh Steelers in the 70s when you were on the sidelines there for a season. Art Rooney has now operating the Steelers has suggested a conversation with the Attorney General here in Florida. would you say to the Florida Attorney General about this rule and about his complaint and his threat to civil action against the NFL? I would say that, yes, if the rule was mandating a quota or mandating that you hire or do things a certain way, then that would be a problem. I could see that.

But that's not what the rule is in place for. The rule is there to help people, supposedly help people in their search for the best candidates. And I think that's what we're going to. we need to do. And so I think if he understands what the rule is really there for, now it's not being implemented the right way. And maybe he's saying the way it's been implemented is wrong. And we could have that discussion. But what the rule is there for is to help in the hiring process and help owners discover the best candidate. Coach, he argues that the NFL requires teams to interview two minority candidates for head coach, general manager, and coordinating positions. Is that accurate in your understanding of the current Rooney Rule?

That's the way I've understood it. First, when it got put in, it was just a minority candidate. Now, I think it is too. But in any case, it's interviewing. Make sure you do research. That's all it's saying. It's not saying that you have to hire, that we have to get this. But I can see where if you didn't know the process, you would say, okay, that could be a little discriminatory.

but it's not saying you can't interview any other race of candidates, just that you have to interview two minority candidates. And it doesn't say you have to hire them. And as we can see from the last hiring cycle, there were zero African-American coaches hired. So it obviously isn't mandating anything. Yeah. Have you been contacted at all as an ambassador of sorts

to the Florida Attorney General, given your role, your senior role, not an official role in the NFL, but certainly a senior leader in this realm? I have not been contacted by the legal department here in Florida. And, you know, if I was, I would. What about I'm part of the NFL to be an ambassador back to? I have been asked by the commissioner at times to talk with owners who were in the hiring process. I have reached out and other owners have reached out to me and asked about.

candidates. They've asked if I'm interested in some jobs, which I had to tell them no. But, yeah, I have them on an informal basis, yes. Yeah. So the Rooney Rule came about after you were fired in Florida, in Tampa, and Dennis Green was fired in Minnesota 22, 23 years or so ago, despite winning seasons. Of course, you went on famously to lead the Colts to a Super Bowl. What was your experience in the hiring process and the role of race? without the Rooney Rule? Well, I don't think the Rooney Rule impacted my sense of how things were done. I know that, and this is 25 years ago, ownership had a different view of coaches and what was

successful. There was kind of a boilerplate, so to speak. This is what we're looking for. And in the 60s and 70s and early 80s, it was. was that rough, gruff, tough, older gentleman who commanded respect. And that's what a lot of coaches were looking for. And as a matter of fact, I can tell you a story. When I first started coaching with the Pittsburgh Steelers, another general manager from another organization told me, if you want to get ahead in this business, you need to shave your beard because you look like a player. You

don't look like a coach. I went to Dan Rooney, who was our president and owner at the time. And I said, do you really want me to shave because I want to represent the team? And he said, no, absolutely not. We want you. We hired you. That's what we want. We don't care what other people think. And he encouraged me to be who I am.

And that said a lot to me because I thought to myself, well, I can shave my beard, but I can't change who I am in the way I look. Right. But that was not what Dan Rooney was interested in. And that's not what I think owners should be interested in. But there was a time when that did play into things. I think we've gotten past that in a lot of ways, but I do think there are owners who don't know who the good candidates are. They go by the popular opinion.

They go by the news media. They go by talk shows, all kinds of things. And Dan was just trying to say, do your research, find out all the people in this arena that fit your description of what you're looking for and then pick the best person from that group. You know, there are no shortage of statistics, of course, in modern football, but I can't imagine there's any statistics around the correlation or causation between coach's facial hair and championships or winning percentage necessarily. So this intent of the Rooney Rule that you talk about, coach, of a process put in place, right? There's a lot of pressure, of course, on teams to perform now, to win this year,

and to, you know, put folks on the sidelines that are going to do that. you have argued in the past that you know slow this process down yes to help these um owners i think these are i'm paraphrasing your words to help the owners to help the owners make the best decision which argues around merit back to the attorney general's argument here in florida though is it seems like merely requiring interviews based upon race or gender uh attorney general with Myers arguing, affects the hiring decision and thus runs counter to Florida law. Well, if you look at the results, it obviously hasn't affected the hiring at all. So we could look at results and argue that.

But that was part of the whole process, too, and a reason for the rule was to slow things down. If you have to do research and if you have to look for different candidates, you won't be able to just make snap decisions. Now, one argument that I do have with the Rooney Rule, and one way that I think the Attorney General's point is true and valid, when I left the Indianapolis Colts, we had it set up in our, we knew what was going to happen. Jim Caldwell was my assistant head coach. He was going to take over for me.

It was set in stone. Well, because of the Rooney Rule, Jim Caldwell happened to be African-American, so we could just go ahead and go with the plan. But if Jim Caldwell had been white, we would have had to interview a couple of minority candidates, even though we knew we were going to hire Jim Caldwell. So that would have, you know, it would have been counterproductive. And that is one of my arguments with it. Sometimes you do have that in place. You've got a long time assistant.

You know what's going to happen. You know who you're going to hire. Then following the rule to check the box really does a disservice. to those you're hired, they're not really getting an opportunity. It's not a real interview. And, you know, it slows things down. Yeah, if you've built the succession plan already internally with your organization, what are alternatives to the Rooney Rule? Now that the League has been living with it for 20-some-odd years, it's expanded, it's changed, but are there alternatives to it? Well, you would hope that we don't need the rule anymore.

You would hope that people think, let me look at every possible. niche and cranny that I can find because I want to get the best candidate. But that's not always the case. And this rule was there to be an aid to help people. It's not supposed to be a stumbling block. It's not supposed to put obstacles in your way. It's supposed to encourage you to do your research and look at every candidate. I can tell you as an head coach hiring assistant coaches.

I did that and I scoured the landscape. I asked our scouts about college coaches. I knew a lot of NFL coaches and I knew who was good from coaching against them, but I had never coached in college, so I didn't know a lot of people in that landscape. Hey, tell me who are the good teachers, who are the good communicators, who are the good instructors in college football? And they came to me with some names that I hadn't heard of.

Lovie Smith, Mike Tomlin. even though they were African-American, I was African-American. I didn't know them. I didn't know Lubby Smith before I hired him. I did not know Mike Tom, but I did the research. And to me, that's what we want to encourage to happen. We shouldn't need rules to do that. We should say, you know, what, this is going to be better for you, for your team.

If you really want to win, you owe it to your fans and your team and your fan base to investigate every possible person you can. Yeah. Coach, we appreciate your time and your expertise in this. Thank you so much for creating the time on your schedule. Thank you. Thank you. Good to be with. Tony Dungey, former head coach of the Tampa Bay Bucks,

who then went on to lead the Indianapolis Colts to the Super Bowl, the only black head coach in the NFL to have a Super Bowl ring. He's a Hall of Famer as well. All right, coming up here on the Florida Roundup, we are going to talk about what we think about each other. A new international poll finds that the majority of Americans have a very low opinion of fellow citizens. So what do you think about your neighbors? And why? 305-995-1800. 305-9-9-8100 on the Florida Roundup from your Florida Public Radio Station.

Support for Florida Roundup comes from the Everglades Foundation, working to restore and protect Florida's $1 trillion asset that helps to bring clean water to Floridians. Learn more at Everglades Foundation.org. This is the Florida Roundup. I'm Tom Hudson. We are happy to have you with us here. I want to clarify something I said just a couple of moments ago that Tony Dungey is the first black head coach to win a Super Bowl in the NFL. Next week on our program, the rising price of life here in the Sunshine State, especially gas prices. I'm a courier, so gas is very important to me. I mean, I use my car to make money.

With prices rising, that's meaning I'm making less money, which that's not good. I can't even put 15 in the tank no more. I got to put at least 25 a day. if the gas prices continue to increase, then there could potentially be an issue at that. Those drivers were filling up their pumps, or rather filling up their tanks with pumps in Gainesville this week. The price at the pump is up about a dollar or so a gallon in the past month. It's an extra $15 or so every fill-up, so what, maybe once a week? It's a little more than a price of a pub sub meal at Publix.

$4 a gallon gasoline. It certainly gets a lot of attention, right? It is in our face every street corner with a gas station. You can see the price there. but, you know, it's not really gasoline that's been fueling the higher cost of living here in Florida. The price of eggs, for instance, has risen faster than gas prices over the past decade. So what prices are rising in your budget? That's what we want to hear from you for next week's program.

And if you didn't have to pay these high prices for gas, for instance, what would you be spending that extra $15 a week on? Let us know by sending us a note to the email address, radio at the florida roundup.org. radio at the Florida roundup.org. That'll be next week. Now, here in South Florida, we live on a corner. We have gates across our driveway. And when we go away on a trip, we make sure that we give one of the remote controls to open the gates to one of our neighbors. Last weekend, I was out doing some yard work, and one neighbor came by and asked if we could watch their house in a few weeks when they are off on a trip. And, you know, when I was growing up, in our kitchen cabinet, right above the refrigerator, there were some hooks. And on those hooks were keys to the

homes of three of our neighbors, and they had keys to our house as well. So I thought about this level of neighborhood trust when I read a recent survey from Pew Research. It found that Americans have the lowest opinion of their neighbors than people in more than two dozen countries. In the United States, it was the only place in the 25 countries that we surveyed in, where more adults describe the morality and ethics of others living in their country as bad than good. in Lesage is with the Pew Research Center. That's not to say that the U.S. is more moralistic or very judgmental around specific behaviors of what people in America are doing.

So maybe not specific behaviors, but generally we've got a pretty poor opinion about the morality of fellow citizens. When asked about the morality of specific behaviors like gambling or extra marital affairs, for instance, we tend to agree with each other. But generally speaking, we do not have high opinions of the general values of one another. So why do we think so poorly of other Americans? What do you think about the morals of people in your community? Cross the street, cross town, 305-955-1800 is our phone number. 305-9-9-8100, and you know you're going to keep it civil with us. Charles and Sarasota sent us this email. He wrote, I was born in Southeast

Florida 74 years ago and have spent most of my life here, the problem. I have with distrust of my neighbors is that most are recent arrivals. They see Florida in a different mindset from the ones who have been here a while. Many first encountered our state as tourists. They enjoyed the weather, but were oblivious to the realities of living in the tropics. Charles Wright's days on the beach are much different than days without electricity or fresh water after a hurricane. They get a bad attitude and rush around in a frenzy, unlike the more laid-back lifestyle of my youth. He concludes people used to be much more friendly and supportive of their neighbors than they are now.

Radio at the Florida. It's a beautiful day in this neighborhood. A beautiful day for a neighbor. Would you be mine? Could you be mine? Well, there's probably no better model of being a good neighbor and thinking highly of others, of course,

than Fred Rogers. Before he was a fixture on public broadcast, Fred Rogers was a student at Rollins College here in the Sunshine State, just outside of Orlando, where there's a statue of him today in his cardigan sweater and sneakers. Maxwell King wrote the book,

The Good Neighbor, the life and work of Fred Rogers. Maxwell, welcome to the program. Thanks for taking time out today. Good to be with you, Tom. What do you think Mr. Rogers would say about this survey finding the majority of Americans think their fellow citizens are morally bad?

First of all, I believe that he thought the single most important thing in the life of a child was strong community, certainly strong parents and strong neighbors, but he really believed that community, neighborliness was critical for young children. So it's something that he emphasized on his program and emphasized all through his life. And he was worried about the fact the community seemed a little bit less coherent today

than they did 50, 100 years ago. But I think Fred's perspective and my perspective for that matter is that these surveys really aren't right. And that's because the polls tend to be received by the people who are are being polled in a political context, in an ideological context. So their answers are about how they think some of their neighbors present in terms of politics and ideology. If you look at things in terms of what really goes on in the neighborhood, what matters to people, it's things like, what's the new store down the block?

Yeah, yeah. What can we do to help you? who won the high school football game. And so I think those polls are misleading because I do not think in day-to-day life, people do mistrust their neighbors a lot more than they used to. It's just that today we seem to funnel everything

through this political lens. And in terms of politics, there is a division. Maxwell, you're spot on. The survey did find that politics plays a role. And it looked across politics, not just in the United States, but the more than two dozen countries where the folks were asking these questions.

So what is the neighborly way to use politics, if there is a neighborly way to use politics, to view morality of others? Well, I think one thing that it's smart to do is don't go right to politics in the conversation because the things that bind our lives together are the everyday things that we share, the ways in which we can help each other.

So, sure, we're going to talk about politics. And I think there are ways to be. talk about politics in which you emphasize listening and sort of playing back to the person you're talking to, even if you disagree with their politics, playing back to them what you're hearing from that. So the emphasis is less on telling people what to think than it is on listening and understanding them. And I know that's exactly the way Fred would have done it. Yeah. I want to correct myself, I misidentified the college in Florida, Rollins College, outside of Orlando in Winter Park. My apologies to the good people of Rollins College and the alum.

Hey, Tom, you also took away Mike Tomlin's Super Bowl. I know, and I corrected that one as well. I'm 0 for two today. I know, I know. Well, it's just yet more evidence on this Friday that I am entirely human and none of this is artificial intelligence. Very little of its intelligence, some cases, Maxwell. Let's be honest with each other. Being human is part of what makes you good at your job. Well, I don't know about that. I'll let others decide that. Heidi has been listening in to us, Maxwell in Fort Myers. Heidi, thanks for your patience. You're on the radio.

Go ahead. Well, one of the reasons that I think people are pretty disenchanted with their neighbors is because of HOA and because they all created their own special Facebook group. And they sit in their home at Wild Post, and then they argue with people online. They think they can say anything they want. It's just amazing how much hate comes out of those things. Yeah, in your HOA's Homeowner Associations, that's not, how to describe this, it's not unique to Florida, but there's certainly lots of them in Florida.

And boy, yeah, there's, there could be some high, high stakes drama with HOA board meetings and other conversations, Heidi. How do you, how do you offer up maybe some solutions for folks? beyond just putting the screen down and going out onto the front porch as opposed to yelling at your smartphone? Actually getting out and meeting your neighbors, you know, we have an HOA that is just absolutely militant about putting out your garbage if you can believe that. And when we moved here from and no HOA, I put my garbage cans out one time.

well all the time now the day before because I'm busy and they come first thing in the morning and they said you're going to get fun and I said go ahead and try it you know I'm going to do it when it's my my convenience and