The Florida Roundup - Florida sees rise in antisemitism, historical markers and fact-checking Biden’s Tampa speech 

Episode Date: April 26, 2024

This week on The Florida Roundup, we spoke with State Senator Lori Berman about legislation targeting antisemitic speech and behavior (01:48) and then we discussed a report finding a rise in antisemitic incidents in 2023 with the Florida Regional Director for the Anti-Defamation League (10:06). Plus, an NPR Investigation into the fractured history told by the thousands of historical markers across the country (19:26) and later, we fact-checked President Biden’s speech in Tampa with PolitiFact (38:30).

This is the Florida Roundup. I'm Tom Hudson. Thanks for being with us this week. Protests over the war between Israel and Hamas have spread to colleges from New York City to Los Angeles. There have been encampments and protests at Columbia University, Emory University in Atlanta, Michigan State, and Indiana University, among other schools. USC canceled its main graduation ceremony over safety concerns. The protesters want the schools to cut their investments in companies doing business with Israel or somehow supporting its war in Gaza. Some of the protests have included anti-Semitic Logans.

Some Jewish students and leaders have said the demonstrations make them worry about their safety. Some Jewish students and leaders have said the demonstrations make them worry about their safety. This week was Passover, and more than 1,000 people attended a traditional Seder dinner at the University of Florida, what organizers called the largest in North America. But Florida campuses have not been immune, with UF and FSU both seeing some relatively small gatherings this week. Students at the University of Florida are the latest to join a wave of pro-Palestinian demonstrations. You can see several dozens of people camped out here at Florida State University in support of Palestine. Students with the UF Divestment Coalition took to the Plaza of the Americas to protest the treatment of Palestinian students on campus.

On Monday, Governor Ron DeSantis said if students violate a school's code of conduct, they should be expelled. In Florida, at our state universities, there's a code of conduct. You have a right to protest and stuff, but you don't have a right to harass other people. Now, Florida lawmakers have passed several pieces of legislation in recent years

targeting anti-Semitic speech and behavior. Lori Berman is a Democratic state senator representing Palm Beach County. Senator, welcome back to the program and thanks again for your time. Are you satisfied with the security of Jewish college students in Florida? In Florida, I think we're doing an okay job right now. I am worried about the fact that these other protests could spread to our campuses, and I want to make sure that when that happens, we are set up and ready to deal with the situation. What do you think is necessary for preparation should Florida college campuses, private or

public universities or colleges, see the kinds of demonstrations that we've seen elsewhere? I think the main thing is that we need to protect the Jewish students on campus and that we need to make sure that they are not being physically attacked as well as subject to slurs and verbal attacks against them. There's a 2019 law that legislators passed and the governor signed and a 2024 bill that worked to define antisemitism in Florida. The bill in 2024 passed the Senate and the House.

Do you expect the governor to sign it? I do believe the governor will sign it. I think that our governor recognizes that it is important to acknowledge that anti-Semitism is not okay. Unfortunately, he hasn't been as strong as I'd like to see with some of the neo-Nazis. to see with some of the neo-Nazis. We've had situations in Orlando where neo-Nazis have been out carrying signs and blatantly anti-Semitic and nothing has been done. But he does seem to care about it when it happens from the left as opposed to the right. And I hope that he will care about it for all when it happens from either side of the political spectrum. Why do you believe that state laws are needed? Are federal protections falling short?

I think state laws can bolster the federal protections. I do believe that we're going to see, you know, more on the federal level. We did see just now the Congress said that anti-Semitism is not okay. They just passed that law. But I think that our state laws need to bolster it also. And that's why I was really happy to see the anti-Semitism bill passed this year in the legislature. There's a lot of things that the bill does that I think are important. Specifically, we define anti-Semitism and we use the definition that's which was the

International Holocaust Remembrance Alliance definition. And it basically says that anti-Semitism is hate directed to Jewish people. And it gives 10 or 11 examples and included among those are examples are things like Holocaust denial, stereotyping, saying that the Jewish people control the media. So it makes really concrete examples in those 11. And why I felt it was so necessary to be in statute is because we do have laws that criminalize behavior, such as our hate crimes laws and our discrimination laws, discrimination in employment, discrimination in housing. And by having the definition, we can be sure that when we're applying those laws in the context of anti-Semitic acts, that it is, in fact, anti-Semitism.

It talks about anti-Semitism as making mendacious, dehumanizing, demonizing, and stereotypical allegations. Does this law, this potential law, it's a bill right now, but it essentially applies the 2019 law, which applied to college campuses statewide. Does this bill govern conduct or speech, in your opinion? This bill only, well, so what we have done by, we've defined anti-Semitism. The only way that conduct is defined is under the law. So there has to be a crime first before or a violation of law, such as the discrimination of laws, before it rises to the level that there can be somebody

arrested or some action in connection with it. So I want to make that real clear. action in connection with it. So I want to make that real clear. Unfortunately, people can make anti-Semitic remarks, and that is not a crime. Including under this legislation? Correct, correct. But when it rises beyond the level of just an anti-Semitic remark and reaches the level of criminality or discrimination in housing or employment when there's something done in connection with it, then we're starting to be able to have conduct regulated under this law. So it's not a crime just to say, and we're not making it a crime just by putting this definition in the law.

If you do a hate crime, if you ram into somebody's car and then say, I did that because you're a terrible Jewish person, then that is a hate crime. And the way the hate crime statute works is you get a higher level of penalty. You were already going to be charged as a crime for ramming into the car. Now you're going to have a higher enhanced penalty. charged as a crime for ramming into the car, now you're going to have a higher enhanced penalty. So this proposed law that you expect Governor DeSantis to sign does not govern speech, but rather it starts at the conduct level. And then if speech is made as it relates to the conduct, that's where this legislation would come into play. Is that accurate? Yes, absolutely. I think that's pretty accurate. I

do want to make it clear that hate crime, speech can rise to the level of a crime when it is, when it incites violence, when it, when it is so hateful that it incites violence. And then that decision is left up to the state's attorney's office whether they want to prosecute that or not. So there can be times when speech can rise, but it has to be a very high bar for it to rise to that level. The First Amendment is not universal. It's not a blanket free pass for anyone to say anything at any time anywhere. Right. It's like you can't say fire in a crowded theater. You know, the same idea. You can't say, let's go out today and kill all the Jewish people and I'm going to take a knife and come follow me.

That is actionable if you do something like that. And that second part is really important because that shows intent of the speech. The first part is, you know, frankly, Senator, debatable about whether or not that is protected speech, right? It is. And that's a decision based on the state attorney's determination, based on all the facts and circumstances surrounding that statement. With this legislation, does it allow space for Florida public university students or Florida residents to make critical statements about Israel and not run afoul of the law? Absolutely. And we amended the legislation at the end. It

went back and forth between the two chambers because we amended it to specifically have a sentence that says, criticism of the state of Israel, like criticism of any other country, is not viewed as anti-Semitism. And this law, as we've been talking about, the 2019 law and this legislation defines anti-Semitism. Is there interest in the legislation or legislators to expand this to other religious discrimination or hate speech? I mean, I would be happy to. And that's something that we can look into. If other groups come to me and want to, you know, have the same kind of protection in statute, I would be very happy to do that. Lori Berman, Democratic state senator from South Florida. Senator Berman, thanks so much for your time. We appreciate it. Thank you so much. Palm Beach County saw the highest number of anti-Semitic acts last year

in Florida. That's according to a new report that was released this week by the Anti-Defamation League. The ADL says the entire state saw a significant increase, including bomb threats, anti-Semitic pamphlets, and vandalism. Sarah Imans is the Anti-Defamation League's Florida Regional Director. Sarah, thank you for your time and for joining our conversation today. What is considered an anti-Semitic incident under the reporting by the ADL? So thank you, Tom, for having me here today, and it's a great question to start us off. So thank you, Tom, for having me here today. And it's a great question to start us off. So an anti-Semitic incident as reported by the ADL is any sort of incident, whether it's harassment, vandalism or assault based incident that specifically targets someone because they're Jewish. So that could be something like yelling an anti-Semitic slur at someone who is Jewish or assaulting someone or putting a swastika on a Jewish institution, those would all be considered anti-Semitic incidents. So it does include speech in addition

to conduct. Yes, it does. And has that definition remained constant throughout the years of research? So ADL has used that definition consistently over the years. As situations have changed, how we've categorized anti-Semitic incidents in our audit of anti-Semitic incidents has been updated to reflect the current times and how speech is being used. But that general definition has maintained its similarity. What did you find in the state of Florida? So just last week, ADL published its annual audit of anti-Semitic incidents. We've been doing this since 1979. And I'll say first, nationally, we saw a massive increase in 2023 in the number of anti-Semitic

incidents, jumping 140%. Here in Florida, the numbers are also shocking. We had hoped that over time we would see less incidents. But here in Florida, reaching 463 incidents, that was a 72% increase in the year prior. Most of the incidents recorded have been in the most populous counties in Florida, probably not a surprise. South Florida, the Orlando area, Tampa, and Jacksonville. What are some of the common circumstances of those incidents? And by that, I mean schools, college campuses, synagogues, neighborhoods,

kind of some of the location of these incidents. So we're certainly seeing anti-Semitic incidents most in most populated areas here in Florida and across the country. And those communities that have the most Jewish individuals residing in them seems to be obviously a hotbed for anti-Semitic activity. Again, the types of incidents that we see really range. And we've seen a huge uptick in the number of Jewish institutions that are targeted, especially after the war began on October 7th, and also visibly Jewish individuals. Orthodox individuals here in the state of Florida and nationally have been increasingly targeted with harassment or even assault. So that's an important point because there is a new state law in Florida that tries to prohibit just that kind of conduct.

It was a 2023 law that prohibits the harassment of a person for wearing anything related to religious heritage. Do you think that law is at any impact? Yes. So if you're speaking about HB 269 that was passed in 2023, this was legislation, very welcome legislation here in the state of Florida that prevented a bunch of the types of extremist related activity that we were seeing. So included in there is a number of different forms of harassment, but that is not limited to anti-Semitic propaganda or propaganda of any form, banner drops, laser projections.

And that law was very effective here in Florida. After that law was signed into legislation on, I believe it was May of 2023, we saw a huge downturn in the number of extremist-related incidents here in the state. We were experiencing a huge jump the year prior in flyers, again, laser projections, banner drops. That law was very effective. What about those being targeted, as you mentioned earlier,ah or a Star of David or some other type of identifying piece of information, but really strengthen the protections for those individuals. Do you think the law is working? Are folks being prosecuted or being investigated for these incidents? incidents? Certainly. We are seeing here in Florida that different jurisdictions are beginning to use that law and have been for the past many months to prosecute individuals, which is allowing

them to take these incidents more seriously. It's really giving law enforcement a tool that they didn't have previously that has become very impactful. And it's really creating a deterrent effect for extremist groups. So I'll say too that our extremist groups, especially the white supremacists who are very active in this space, they have not gone away, but they are not as active here in Florida. We know that they're active in other states, nearby states like Georgia, right Governor DeSantis, saying he has not been as strong as she would like to see him with some of the neo-Nazis in Florida, so the far right fringe. Given the language and tone of some pro-Palestinian protests on the left, what are your thoughts about how anti-Semitic laws are applied in Florida? It's a great point, Tom. So we've seen, obviously, that rise in white supremacist and right-wing extremism, I'd say, since 10-7 and even starting before that, but certainly with 10-7 as a catalyst. We've seen a rise in anti-Semitic rhetoric coming from the left, right, or from more progressive spaces on college campuses. We're seeing this erupt at many college campuses right now across the United States.

I think it's really critical for our elected leadership to be calling out anti-Semitism wherever they see it. So, and to be consistent, right? If we're calling out anti-Semitic rhetoric, the same rhetoric, we're often seeing the same rhetoric from more right-wing groups and more left-wing groups, and having leaders who are able to speak out against both, I think, is critically important. Here in Florida, that's been a little bit of a mixed bag with some of our leadership. There have been some leaders who have been very consistent, but I'd say I would encourage our elected leadership, both at the local and the state level, to improve their consistency of condemnation. Sarah, where does criticism and debate over Israeli policy and foreign affairs land in this research? So this can be very confusing, right? Here at ADL,

we believe that criticizing the Israeli government for their military actions, any of their policies, it's fair game, right? Just like here in the United States, right? actions, any of their policies, it's fair game, right? Just like here in the United States, right? It is part of our democratic process to sometimes criticize the United States government and their policies, right? That is not anti-Semitic in and of itself. Where it crosses the line is when we're actually criticizing the right of the state of Israel to exist. So when we hear things, we're hearing on college campuses and in demonstrations, calls like from the river to the sea

or globalize the Intifada. What these pieces of rhetoric really call for is the elimination of the state of Israel, saying that this is not a state that should exist. And that's here at ADL, what we believe crosses the line

into anti-Semitic rhetoric. Florida law requires teaching students about the history of the Holocaust. There are state laws passed addressing anti-Semitic conduct and defining anti-Semitism. What else can be done? How to address this significant increase that the ADL has identified in anti-Semitic incidents in the United States, but particularly here in Florida? I think it's critical that every single one of us and our elected leaders and our community leaders condemn anti-Semitism from wherever and however we see it show up. I always say to folks,

I'm the least favorite guest at my Thanksgiving table. Because if I have a family member who says something hateful or anti-Semitic or in any other regard off, I'm going to step in and I'm going to say something. And so it's critical that we do that so that we actually renormalize the type of anti-Semitism and hate that we're seeing show up more and more in our society. We all have to do that work. Sarah Imanz is the Anti-Defamation League's Florida Regional Director. Sarah, thanks so much. Thank you. The University of Florida has threatened to suspend or ban from campus students who violate rules during pro-Palestinian protests. Those rules include bans on bullhorns, camping, and blocking someone's path. UF also says staff

and faculty breaking the rules would be fired. Still to come on our program, the silly and the serious. Hundreds of historical markers around the state. What do they tell us about our history? 305-995-1800. This is the Florida Roundup. I'm Tom Hudson. Thanks for listening this week. On Martin Luther King Jr. Street in St. Petersburg, in the Design District neighborhood of Miami, and on the Overseas Highway in the Florida Keys. These are just three of the hundreds of historical markers across the Sunshine State and some of the thousands across the United States.

They mention the notorious and the newsworthy, and yes, the insignificant, like a 19th century alligator in Mount Dora named Old Joe. Old Joe reads the plaque was the largest, fiercest, and most respected alligator on the lake. Well, Old Joe got a historical marker. These markers often are plaques embedded on the ground or metal signs posted just a little higher than eye level. What stories do these markers tell? Who gets to decide what stories are told? And in the debate over history, what can these markers tell us? Email us now, radio at thefloridaroundup.org, radio at thefloridaroundup.org,

or call us, 305-995-1800. 305-995-1800. I'm Julia Cooper at the Hurricane Monument in Isla Morada. The monument sits next to the Matacombi Methodist Church here, which is listed on the National Register of Historical Places. Both the church and the monument are just off the overseas highway and across from a fire station, so there isn't much foot traffic here and no one has come along since I've been visiting. But I'm at a historical marker that's dedicated to a devastating hurricane that hit the Middle Keys in 1935. It does denote that the marker was written by Irving and Jean Eyster. Irving was a local archaeologist and historian. The marker starts

by saying people living in the Keys are always aware of the dangers of tropical storms and hurricanes. And while there have been plenty of storms, the Labor Day storm of September 2nd, 1935 was more powerful, concentrated, and treacherous. The marker goes on to recount details about weather advisories and the timeline of events of the hurricane, but then it also says the hurricane monument at mile marker 81.5 contains the remains of nearly 300 people who died in the storm. The piers in the bay at mile marker 73 in Channel 2 also serve as a memorial to those who lost their lives. serve as a memorial to those who lost their lives. I'm standing here in St. Pete at the corner of Martin Luther King Jr. Street and 2nd Avenue South, right behind the Tropicana Field and next to a U-Haul building.

And here stands a historical marker marking the spot where John Evans was lynched and murdered here in St. Pete in 1914. This is Grayson Docter with our partner station WUSF. The area where the historical marker isn't totally desolate, like there's a good bit of things going on around here. The street is pretty busy, consistent traffic, not a lot of foot traffic traffic but there have been some people to walk by or ride their bike by and we are located right next to a bus stop and in the midst of some parking lots like I said we're right behind the Tropicana field there are some apartment buildings around a few businesses so it's it's not an area, but it's not overwhelmed with people. Not right now. I imagine that on the game days, there are probably more people here who are walking by and reading the monument, seeing it and things like that.

DANNY WHITE, President, Pinellas Remembers, The purpose of it is to tell the truth. GEOFF BENNETT, This is Danny White. He's the president of Pinellas Remembers, which put up this marker in St. Pete. The marker is there to remind people of racial terror and factual racial terror appearances that happened in the city of St. Petersburg. Here's a little of what the marker says. The lynching of John Evans. Near the site on November 12th, 1914, a white mob lynched a black man named John Evans.

During this era, black people were burdened by a presumption of guilt that made them vulnerable to mob violence and lynching. So how do these historical markers appear? What do they tell us about our history and what markers have you run across? 305-995-1800. Our phone lines are open now live on this Friday.

305-995-1800. Laura Sullivan is an investigative reporter with NPR and she joins us now from Washington, D.C. Laura, nice to have you on the program. Thanks for joining us. Thanks so much for having me. Yeah. How are these decisions made about what gets a historical marker? Well, this was one of the most surprising things to me about this story when we started looking at there's more than 180,000 markers in this country so far. We keep putting more and more up. And I had always sort of had this idea that,

you know, this big group of sort of esteemed national historians was sitting around deciding what critical moments in our history was going to be put on a marker. No, that is not how this works. Anybody can put up a marker. And when we looked at this database, there's a public database of markers. It's crowdsourced by hobbyists. And when we looked at the database, we found more than 35,000 different groups and individuals and societies and towns and businesses have put up historical markers. They generally cost about $3,000 to make, give or take, and you just need someone to give you a little spot of land. So deeds, something that happened, tend to be pretty significant in this list of over 180,000 historical markers and the thousands here in Florida. Frequently, these are the subject of the markers. How have what deeds get noted changed through the years, though?

So when you look at these sort of markers and the trends of them, you see that they really started to take off in this country in the early 20th century. This is a time when people were hitting the roads in their new cars. And a lot of towns and cities were using these as a way to lure in tourists. So you would have something on the side of the row, you know, best, you know, blueberry muffins in the world kind of thing. And they could say anything that the town wanted them to say, which is sort of what we found as well. So, you know, and so it was a way to kind of bring people in. One of the most popular types of markers that we've seen as they took off in the 20th century is certainly about wars. We see a lot about settlements and the

frontiers. It's some of the two most popular categories. And then right at the top as well is industry and commerce. And the other way to say this is cool American inventions. So there's a lot of things like the first glass oven door. One of my favorites that I saw was the first bread slicing machine. I mean, America's full of cool inventions, and we love to mark them. So they're all over America. But this has led to a lot of states going a little bit overboard. Claiming ownership of the biggest wheel of cheese or something like that.

Exactly. 100%. 100%. I mean, well, yeah. I mean, like the states, exactly. 100%. 100%. I mean, well, yeah. I mean, like the states. Exactly. We've got three states, for example, that claim to be the birthplace of anesthesia. We've got two states, Kentucky and Missouri, that both claim to be the home of Daniel Boone's bones. I don New Jersey are claiming to have sent the first telegram. Texas is claiming to have had the first airplane flight by a man who was neither of the right In Texas, no less. Yes. Well, Kitty Hawk, North Carolina may have something to say about that. Let's go to the panhandle here in Florida, Laura.

John has been listening into our conversation in Panama City. John, you are on the radio. Go ahead. Yes, sir. The Gideon, like the Gideon Bible versus Wainwright historical marker in front of the Bay County Courthouse. If you read it, that's the basis for the Miranda decision where you get a free lawyer and all that. This is the you have a right to remain silent list of rights there. Yeah, that's it that's it that's uh most people do not know that you know florida is the home for that and all miranda is

is they have to tell you about that they have to tell you about the gideon versus wayne right you know you have a right to remain silent you have a right to an attorney. That's right. Most people do not know that, but if you read that historical marker, it's pretty lengthy, but it tells you that. Yep. And it... There it is. Mr. Gideon, they've got his picture on a traffic control box, you know, this was in the 50s, and even the judge told him, if you had a lawyer, you'd beat this.

John, thanks for listening and sharing that story. Yeah, I see the marker on McKenzie Avenue there in Panama City, Florida, and Bay County in the panhandle. Laura, how does, you know, a recognition like that tend to stand out for folks. Exactly. I mean, this is sort of the classic thing that you see on markers is the first time something happened. I mean, I think Alabama has the first 911 call. I mean, there's all kinds of things that we like to say, this is the place where, you know, this incredible thing happened. And that is something that America, unlike, you know, has sort of been at the forefront of using markers for compared to other countries.

There's also, in a lot of ways, sort of a darker side to markers as well, where over the course of history, they've been used not to really celebrate some of the best, but also kind of manipulate how some of the history gets told. And that's something that we also some of the history gets told. And that's something that we also saw during the 20th century. One of the newest historical markers here in Florida is in the city of Miami, marking something that happened 45 years ago. Arthur McDuffie was a former Marine. He was 33 years old and an insurance agent in town. He ran a red light while he was on his motorcycle one night and police officers beat him and he died a few days later.

while he was on his motorcycle one night. Police officers beat him, and he died a few days later. Historian Marvin Dunn was a driving force behind getting this marker that was just erected in February. Well, states, cities, counties, even the United States, don't like to mark bloody places. They don't like to memorialize places where dirty things happened in their provinces. So they don't just put up a marker like that and this is a pretty tragic affair now for

police officers involved in the beating were tried the trial was moved from Miami to Tampa it was an all-white jury the officers were acquitted the officers were white and McDuffie was black and the verdict set off riots in Miami when I wrote the narrative for that marker I sent it to the state explaining what had happened, and I indicated that Mr. McDuff had been beaten to death by half a dozen white Metro Day police officers. And the state rejected that wording and sent it back without the word white in it, just beaten to death by half a dozen police officers. And I told them, if they don't put the word white back on the marker, they should take my name off of it.

So, Laura, how is race handled by the markers that you reviewed in your investigation? We found a very fractured and manipulated telling of a lot of the tense moments in American history. We found significant distortions in the South when it comes to telling the history of the Civil War. We found more than 500 markers that glorify the Confederacy or vilify the Union or just falsify the reasons for the war. or just falsify the reasons for the war. It's a similar, even as the guest was saying, when we looked at markers that talk, that mention plantations,

almost 70% of them do not mention slavery. Even in Florida, we found nine of these markers that talk about plantations that don't mention slavery. We found more than 500 markers that talk about notable men and their notable mention slavery. We found more than 500 markers that talk about notable men and their notable houses without mentioning the force-free labor that made that kind of work possible. There's eight of those. So I want to bring this back to Florida.

This is a very contemporary debate in this state, as you're probably aware, Laura, as an investigative reporter. There's been a lot of controversy over black history in Florida. A state education standard includes lessons that require, quote, slaves develop skills which in some instances could be applied for their personal benefit, end quote. how are these markers reviewed through contemporary lenses of of of how history is understood and who got to wrote who got to write the original version? Right. Well, the fascinating thing about markers is that they've really escaped that kind of scrutiny. They've really flown under the radar of all of this conversation that's gone on over the past few years about how do we want to tell the how do we want to tell the country's history and the past and how do we how do we explain slavery and and and the markers and a lot of them that we saw really do this sort of same thing where slavery wasn't that bad and you know you were you were lucky to be a slave and it was a

good experience you know which i think a lot of humans might say, well, I don't think I'd actually want to be a slave. So, you know, there was a real push in the 20th century by groups that were sort of fighting this momentum of equal rights and civil rights to put up markers at this time, at the same time that civil rights was going on, to say, no, slavery wasn't that bad. Let's support the Confederacy. And it was a real manipulation. One of the groups that we saw that was doing this was the United Daughters of the Confederacy, which put up more than 600 markers glorifying the Confederacy and really making slavery sound like a pleasant experience. And this has been allowed to sort of go because it's very hard to – there's so many markers. It is very difficult for states. We talk to so many states and they're like, we have no idea what markers are in our state. And when you did, you'd have to go out and drive out to all of them to see are they still there?

What land do they sit on? Who owns it? You know, it's difficult. Laura, let me remind folks that they're listening to the Florida Roundup from your Florida Public Radio station. Laura Sullivan is along with us, investigative reporter for NPR, who's been looking into historical markers across the United States, more than 180,000 of them. Nancy has been listening in. Nancy, you are on the radio. Go ahead. of them. Nancy has been listening in. Nancy, you are on the radio. Go ahead. Hi. I live in Atlanta, Florida, and I was actually driving on 1792 in Atlanta as this story was coming on, and I drove by the Lawton Child markers that have the picture of the boots

with Walkin' Lawton. Walkin' Lawton, sure. Walkin' Lawton Child, and every time I pass that sign, it makes me smile since Lawton Child is one of the best governors that Florida's ever had. A little bit of politics and exercise all there. Nancy, appreciate you joining our conversation. Jean sent us an email mentioning a marker that was placed some years ago regarding my family. Jean says it's incorrect, even though we provided correct information to the private citizen that erected the marker. Jean also sent us this voicemail. I'm involved in creating an African-American heritage trail in Manatee County. We're identifying historically significant people and places to celebrate with historical

markers. Our aim is to create a connection to other counties through our markers and Florida's Black Heritage Trail already underway around the state. Laura, what are some of the best practices for Jean, who says that she's got an historical marker with her family that's wrong, and she's also trying to put together some new historical markers. This is something what Jean is sort of touching on is something that's happening nationwide, where it is actually very difficult to take down or even alter historical markers, not only because states, it's very difficult to establish ownership. Some of these things are 100 years old. What land do they sit on? Who owns it? Who do you have to contact? It's very

hard. And then on top of that, in some ways, it's easier to just put up new markers, which is some of what Gene is doing. And you see states taking this step as well, where they're saying, well, if we can't take the old ones down, let's add some new ones to this idea. A number of states, Florida is also having this conversation talking about what you can take down. Some states have made it absolutely illegal to remove or alter a historical marker that's on public land, no matter how wrong or offensive it can be. This is difficult. I mean, when we went out to Minnesota, we found that, you know, they are one of the rare states that's kind of taking a look

at the markers in their states and trying to address them. And so they they found 206 that the Historical Society, the State Historical Society, had some involvement in either paid for, helped put up. And and they tracked them all down. And by that, I mean, they had to drive out to all of them because how else are you going to see them? And they found that all 206 had a problem. And they found that all 206 had a problem. Well, Laura Sullivan, we're tight on time. Laura Sullivan, investigative reporter with NPR looking into historical markers across the nation. Thanks, Laura, for joining us. Thanks so much.

This is the Florida Roundup. I'm Tom Hudson. Thanks for being along with us. President Joe Biden made his first stop in Florida of the 2024 campaign this week. The state may have gone for Donald Trump in the past two presidential elections and Republican registered voters now outnumber Democrats. But Biden's visit came just days before the state's new, more restrictive abortion law goes into effect. Steve Newborn from our partner station WUSF was there on Tuesday. I'm standing outside the gymnasium at Hillsborough Community College's Dale Mabry campus where President Joe

Biden wrapped up about a 13-minute speech that focused exclusively on abortion rights. His focus on Florida is dealing with the upcoming six-week ban that takes effect next week and the referendum in November that would enshrine abortion rights in the state constitution. So he spoke exclusively about that and said he would veto any legislation coming from Congress that would enact a nationwide ban on abortion. And his big quote was, don't mess with the women of America. It may have been a relatively short speech, as Steve mentioned, but the president made several claims about his expected presidential opponent, Donald Trump, and abortion. Sam Putterman is with us now, Florida government reporter for our news partner,

PolitiFact. Sam, the former president featured prominently in the current president's speech this week in Tampa, but unlike the State of the Union address from just a few weeks ago, President Biden did not refer to President Trump as his predecessor as frequently as he did in Congress. Instead, he talked about President Trump. President Biden started by talking about the state's new abortion law restricting the procedure after six weeks. This is what President Biden said this week in Tampa. Florida is one of the 21 states in America where America can't get access you need for care. This adds up to one in three women throughout the United States of America have this limitation. Sam, how accurate is President Biden's statistic? Yeah, so we found that this

is accurate. And the number of women in the statistic is poised to grow when Florida's six-week abortion ban does take effect on May 1st. And barring any, you know, other legislative actions when it comes to Arizona's 1864 law that would take effect in June. But basically at six weeks, we talk about that being a total ban as Biden has talked about, because many women, you know, they don't yet know that they're pregnant and haven't had a chance to see a doctor. And we previously found that excluding Florida, around 21.5 million women and girls of reproductive age currently live in states that ban abortions completely or at that

six-week part point in pregnancy. That's almost 30% of women ages 15 to 49. And when you add in states that ban abortion after 12 or 15 weeks, that number of affected women grows to 25 million or about 40%. And then if you throw Florida in there, it's going to be even higher. grows to 25 million or about 40%. And then if you throw Florida in there, it's going to be even higher. So the president also spoke about that other state law, not in Florida, but in Arizona, as you mentioned, Sam, where there's a ban that dates back to 1864. And that ban is in force today. Here's what President Biden said in Tampa. And today, MAGA Republicans refused to repeal that ban in Arizona. Trump was literally taking us back 160 years. So, Sam, what has the former president, President Trump, said about this Arizona law?

Right. So this statement, it does leave out that Trump has criticized Arizona's recent legal action, you know, affecting abortion. So a couple of weeks ago, you mentioned, you know, the Arizona Supreme Court ruled in favor of bringing back this law of ban on all abortions except when a pregnant woman's life is endangered. Following that course ruling, the Republican led, you know, Arizona House. They did block efforts to move forward on a repeal. Since Biden's statement, the House did vote to repeal with three Republicans joining Democrats. We'd have to kind of see how that's going to play out. The Arizona court, when it first said it was OK, had concluded that because there is no federal constitutional right to abortion, it was enforceable. And Trump, you know, took credit for overturning that federal

right. But following the ruling, Trump did say that the Arizona court went too far and that it would be straightened out by state lawmakers. So he just leaves out Trump's criticism of the law. This balance between federal law or the federal Supreme Court ruling and states making decision came up later in the president's speech here in Tampa. I'll ask you about that in a second. President Biden did remind his Florida audience that Trump has taken credit for overturning Roe versus Wade because of his Supreme Court nominees, as you mentioned. But President Biden went further and said this, this week in Tampa. He said, there has to be punishment for women exercising their

reproductive freedom. So Sam, President Biden has made this kind of claim before. What's the truth of it? Yeah, so it's pretty misleading. In 2023, we rated a similar statement by Biden, mostly false. During that March 2016 town hall, Trump was asked if there should be punishment for abortion. He answered that there should be some form of punishment, with the host clarifying for the woman, to which he agreed, yes, there has to be some form. Do you believe in punishment for abortion? Yes or no, as a principle? The answer is that there has to be some form of punishment. For the woman?

Yeah. There has to be some form. But Biden does leave out when he says this that Trump retracted the comment the same day following criticism. He had issued a statement that same day that said he meant that positions should be held legally responsible, not women. So the statement was there on MSNBC back in 2016, but it was the clarification that same day that President Biden is not including in his critique of his predecessor. Correct. Exactly. Earlier this month, the former president, President Trump, did make a video statement about his position on abortion. And a lot of folks looked at that position saying, well, this is clarifying President Trump's position now, leaving it up to the states.

Here's what President Biden claimed this week in Tampa. Don't think he's making a deal right now with migrant extremists to ban nationwide abortion in every single state because he's making it. So what do we know for sure here? Yeah. So Biden has said this a lot lately that, you know, if Trump got back into office, he would sign a national abortion ban. The way Biden phrased it this time that Trump is making deals right now to do so is more careful since we, of of course don't know what goes on in private. But Trump's most recent public comments do conflict with this. As you said in his video on his abortion position, he did boast about appointing Supreme Court justices who overturned

Roe v. Wade. He did say that abortion regulation should be left up to the states. But he also told reporters a few days later that he wouldn't sign a national ban if it came to his desk. But this comes with the caveat that Trump has been notably inconsistent on abortion. And he has expressed support for a nationwide ban in the past. So, for instance, in 1999, he described himself as pro-choice. When he was president in 2017, he actually endorsed a 20-week national ban that failed to pass Congress. More recently, in February, The New York Times reported he floated a 16-week nationwide abortion ban and in March had indicated in a radio interview that he would back a 15-week ban. So while Biden's statement, you know, conflicts with

Trump's most recent comments on his position of a national ban, you know, Trump has wavered quite a bit on this subject too, which needs to be taken into account. This was the first campaign trip that the current president has made to Florida as the likely nominee of the Democratic Party. There was no Democratic primary in the state of Florida for Florida Democrats. What else struck you about the president's visit and speech this week here? One thing that was striking was that President Biden did use the word abortion one time that I heard at the very beginning of the speech. And it's something that he actually hasn't used very much at all in the past publicly. In the State of the Union, he very notably never mentioned the word once.

He would say reproductive health, reproductive freedom. He did that a lot in the Tampa speech afterwards, but he did actually say abortion. And this is kind of notable because a lot of abortion rights activists have criticized Biden for not being willing to use the word and being more open about that. And people have talked about his Christian faith and being a Catholic as part of the reason for that. So we might see a change possibly going forward in the campaign with some of his word usage. And it perhaps may be notable that it happened in Florida because that word is on the ballot for Florida voters in November. Exactly. And he talked about that multiple times about, you know, Floridians going out and supporting the ballot. So that definitely could have come into play

with his choice to use it. It's a statewide referendum on whether or not to have abortion protections put into the state constitution. Among the many questions Florida voters will decide in several months. Sam Putterman, PolitiFact, fact check, our news partner here on the Florida Roundup. Thanks, Sam. Thanks so much for having me. And I'm Tom Hudson. You're listening to the Florida Roundup from your Florida Public Radio station. Last week on this program, we were talking about older folks leaving retirement and going back to work.

Some by choice, others because they need the paycheck to pay for the rising cost of living here in the Sunshine State. Well, many of you emailed us and we wanted to get into that inbox here. Dominic sent us this note writing, I'm a 71-year-old single male. My income is Social Security and a small pension. I work as a substitute teacher that provides me with the additional income I need to maintain my financial solvency. Dominic continues, saying it scares me as I age because I don't know if my health changes what I'll do to maintain my financial safety.

I depleted my savings during COVID, Dominic says. Lisa sent us a note at radio at the Florida Roundup dotorg, describing herself as a native Floridian. Lisa said, I'll be 64 soon. After being married over 17 years, a stay-at-home mom of three children, my husband left us, got divorced as the pandemic hit. Alimony will stop soon. Lisa says, finding affordable housing, getting a job after raising children, insurance, groceries, very, very difficult in Florida.

Overwhelming. She says, this is not the Florida I grew up in. Mara says she's a 64-year-old female, owns a business in the Daytona area, and also works part-time with a chiropractic clinic. She says, my income after 12 years as a therapist has finally risen, but the cost of living has doubled. I used to rent a three-bedroom, two-bath house where I took care of my daughter, granddaughter, and myself. I had to move into a one-bedroom apartment that cost me more than the house did three years ago. I've been priced out of the sales market. My solution, Mara writes, moving to West Virginia when my lease runs out in June, moving in with my sister where we will split costs. And Jay finally sent us a very

short note. I'm 67 years old, retired. I find myself having to go back to work because I can't afford retirement. Our inbox is always open for you. Our email address is radio at the floridaroundup.org. Radio at the floridaroundup.org. We'd love to hear from you there. Finally on the Roundup this week, Floridians, we are a forgetful bunch. Uber puts out a list every year of cities where people leave behind the most stuff after they finish up their rides, and three Florida cities make the top 10 most forgetful. Tampa, Orlando, and a number one this year, Miami. It was quite a year of improvement for riders in one city though here. Last year's most forgetful place in Uber rides was Jacksonville. It dropped out of the top 10 entirely this year. Oh, and props to you riders

in Tampa. You've been on the forgetful list three out of the past four years. Apparently, you forgot to be on the list one year. That'll do it for our program this week. The Florida Roundup is produced by WLRN Public Media in Miami and WUSF Public Media in Tampa by Bridget O'Brien and Grayson Docter. WLRN's Vice President of Radio and the program's Technical Director is Peter Meritz. Engineering help each and every week from Doug Peterson, Charles Michaels, and Jackson Hart. Richard Ives answers our phones. Our theme music is provided by Miami jazz guitarist Aaron Libos at aaronlibos.com.

Thanks for calling, emailing, listening, and above all, supporting public media in your community. I'm Tom Hudson. Have a terrific weekend.