The Florida Roundup - Foreign-owned property; threatened historic buildings; digital bill of rights

Episode Date: May 5, 2023

A bill restricts people with ties to the Chinese government from owning land in Florida; a threat to historic buildings is averted for now; a bill aimed at boosting online data privacy clears the Legislature.

Welcome to the Florida Roundup. I'm Danny Rivero in Miami. My co-host Melissa Ross is out this week, but she'll be back again next Friday. Before we start, we should mention that the Florida legislature has just officially wrapped up the 2023 session today on a Friday traditionally known as Sine Dai. on a Friday traditionally known as Sine Dai. And this hour, we'll look at a proposal aimed at restricting people with ties to the Chinese government from owning land in Florida, a bill that's now heading to Governor Ron DeSantis for signature. The House and Senate voted yesterday to pass the measure, SB 264, that in part would prohibit the sale of property within 10 miles of military bases and other critical infrastructure to interests tied to the Chinese Communist Party or citizens of other nations on a list of so-called countries of concern.

Its passage follows statewide protests against the bill that critics call anti-Asian discrimination, and after much debate about it on the floor. But proponents of the measure say it's a matter of national security. Here's State Representative Danny Alvarez, a Hillsborough County Republican, voicing his support for the measure during floor debate this week. Today we talk about unintended consequences, but we take into no account what consequence will there be when we are under the boot heel of the Communist Party of China. The votes for the bill were not unanimous. The Senate voted 31 to 8 to pass the bill, and the House passed it shortly after in a 95 to 17 vote.

The bill came about partly in reaction to reports of the Chinese government buying land, especially agricultural land, across the country. And while China is the primary focus of the bill, other countries and other citizens of these countries of concern, they include people that are citizens of Russia, Iran, North Korea, Cuba, Venezuela, and Syria. What do you think about this? We want to hear from you. It's 305-995-1800. Again, that's 305-995-1800. And you can also tweet us at Florida Roundup. Joining us now is Dr. Wei Zhu, the president of the Jacksonville Chinese Association and past president Wayne Raiti of that organization. And we're also joined by Edgar Chen, who works in policy for the National Asian Pacific Island Bar Association in Washington, D.C. And also joining

us is Brian Bandell with the South Florida Business Journal. Everyone, thank you so much for coming on this Friday. It's great to be here. Thanks for having us. Absolutely. Thanks for inviting us in. So, Dr. Zhu, let's start with you. When you first heard about this proposed legislation, what was your initial reaction? Thank you for having me first. And I heard about this bill in early April, and I was really shocked. I didn't realize, oh, Florida was considering the same bill because I had known that Texas was trying to pass a bill like this. And I didn't know the impact was so fast spreading. And in Florida, we were already being impacted.

And especially I couldn't believe it passed the Senate unanimously. And I thought it was definitely, it was really, really dangerous situation. We definitely needed to stand up and speak out. We definitely need to stand up and speak out. And, Doctor, this happens on the backdrop of a dramatic increase in anti-Asian bias, harassment, incidents of violence that have happened across the entire country, especially after the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic. Do you see bills like this, measures like this falling into that same pattern? Yes, yes. Ever since the COVID-19 pandemic, we've experienced lots of hate crimes and discrimination

based on race and ethnicity against Asian Americans americans and this time it is not just discrimination amount you know by by just ordinary people against us it's it's a government uh behavior this time it's a legislation so definitely this uh legislation has taken discrimination to the next level you know this is what definitely encourages people, you know, to discriminate against us even more, even further, because they have legislation backing them up. And this bill does appear to be essentially almost a blanket ban of Chinese nationals

who do not have permanent residency in this country or U.S. citizenship from owning property. But it also, different measures of it apply to citizens of Venezuela, Cuba, Syria, Iran, North Korea, and Russia. Brian Bandel, I want to bring you into this. You cover real estate. You cover real estate. What kind of impact could this real estate market. By reading this legislation, it includes homes, includes residential property, because it just says all real estate. So developers in the past have gone to China and marketed Miami condos to Chinese nationals. They did this very aggressively for several projects. So they'll no longer be able to do that because downtown Miami is very close

to the port of Miami. And in the past, Venezuelan nationals who were not permanent residents or were not citizens bought condos here and commercial real estate here and houses here. So they would be excluded. In fact, if you look at data from the Florida realtors, 6% of the foreign buyers in the state of Florida were from Venezuela. It's not as big as the top market Canada, but it's still a pretty significant market there. And so this impact, you know, not just agriculture and all that, but, you know, buying a condo in downtown Miami, Fort Lauderdale, West Palm Beach or Jacksonville as well,, because of course, Jacksonville has a port pretty close to the city too. Right. And also airports and military installations, that 10 mile radius would apply to that. Edgar, I want to bring you into this. Just five years ago, Florida became the last state in the United States to officially repeal the alien land law that technically banned Asians

from owning land in the state, even if that law was not enforced at the time. But now this bill is heading to Governor Ron DeSantis' desk, which would effectively be a ban on Chinese citizens owning land here. I mean, what do you make of that timeline? citizens owning land here. I mean, what do you make of that timeline? Yeah, clearly, this is a step backwards. You know, Florida, as you said, was the last state in the union to have that alien land law measure. It was enshrined in the Constitution of the state. Our Florida Asian Pacific American Bar Associations, and we have four affiliates in Florida, worked very hard over the course of a decade to repeal that language. And what's happening here is that this is perpetuating a legacy of injustice that has traditionally targeted Asian immigrants. These land laws on their face simply held that folks who are not entitled to become citizens would be barred

from owning land. But the people who on the federal immigration books were who fit in that category were folks from Asia. So, yes, this this is an extension of something that we thought as a country we have far evolved past from a century ago. And you can call us at 305-995-1800. I want to go to Christy calling from Tallahassee. Christy, thanks for calling the Florida Roundup. You're on. Sure. I think we need to have some parameters around people from other countries that aren't citizens purchasing anything in the United States. of land and you're talking about agriculture, that kind of control is not, I think, healthy economically for the United States. So just kind of sitting down and looking at, okay, what can we bear and then what should

we really rethink and put some real boundaries around? Thank you for the call, Christy. You know, I will mention, I mean, similar concerns about foreigners owning a lot of real estate when it comes to agricultural land. I mean, that in a lot of ways was the underpinning of the Cuban revolution that brought about the communist government because of how much land Americans owned, which did not turn out very well for Cubans, I think I would say. So these are very prickly issues. Wen, I want to bring you into this. The bill says that it is meant to combat the Communist Party of China. Bill says that it is meant to combat the Communist Party of China.

But you've expressed fear that Chinese and Chinese-Americans who have actually fled that country and the Communist Party of China, that people like yourself are going to be caught in the middle of this. Can you tell us a little bit about that? Yes. Thank you for having us today and bring this bill to the public discussion. And I would like to – I have been saying all along this bill has unintended consequences we experienced uh profiling against us as asian americans or chinese americans in particular and the uh legislators said this is a preventive measure to target the chinese community uh communist party ccp But we are Americans. We live here. We are far from CCP. And when we have this legislation, and people would not read the fine prints in the law,

they presumably, they say, okay, we look like Chinese, we look like Asian, and then they will presumably, we will be Asian, and then they will presumably we will be, you know, part of that group. And then this is amazing, right? We go to this young couple is ready to raise a family search or hunting for a house. And the seller and the agent will ask him or her, are you American citizens? Do we have to carry our passport on the street to prove that we are American citizens? Just imagine that kind of situation.

And then just step back, think about World War II, what Jewish people experienced. In the beginning, they need to register their property with the country. And then later on, they cannot have a business. And then later on, they put it into internment. That's the fear, the anxiety we have experienced. And thank you for that. Dr. Zhu, I do want to address that

because a part of this bill that's going to the governor's desk will require that Chinese nationals and nationals of these other countries, if they own property now, that they register their property with the state. They declare certain things if not they can face up to a thousand dollars in penalties per day um you put get liens put on

their properties um is is that part of it concerning to you definitely because this well this is a great example of discrimination and the racial profiling because why only us you know chinese immigrants uh together with immigrants from all of the other six countries why only we are required to do so you know the immigrants from other countries from you know countries other than these seven countries, they are not required. Even if they are not U.S. citizens or permanent residents, they are just visa holders. They don't have to report their poverty

to this government department. So this is definitely based on country of origin. So this is definitely not fair. And I do know in the American West, I mean, there's a lot of concerns about Saudi Arabia buying a lot of farmland, and they are not anywhere in this kind of bill. Edgar, I want to go back to you. When it comes to how you envision that this might actually be enforced, I mean, what's your take on that? Do we know how this will be enforced? Yeah, Danny, it's what we don't know about how this law would be enforced that's really the most troubling. You had mentioned the registry and the

potential for forfeitures and fines of up to $1 dollars per day for non-compliance with this but i think our my fellow panelists have noted this uh question how are they going to research what constitutes a violation how are you going to to determine if a u.s born asian american person files an affidavit because they wanted to buy a condo in South Florida, that that person could be violating the law. Is it going to be because of their last name? Is it because of how they look? There are so many potential pitfalls here in terms of how you enforce this, what criteria you use that we just don't know about. And I do want to say something about other potentially problematic constitutional issues here. Look, there's a huge 14th Amendment problem. The 14th Amendment holds that no state can deny to any person, that's person, not citizen, within its jurisdiction, the equal protection of the law.

within its jurisdiction, the equal protection of the law. This legislation targets persons based on national origins. And, you know, while it does address issues like large swaths of agricultural land or land near military facilities, and does ban governmental entities and political parties like the Chinese Communist Party from investing in Florida, it also bans ordinary citizens of these countries from investing, even if they aren't affiliated with the government or ruling political party. Thank you for that. Brian, I do want to go back to you. I mean, I'm going to ask you two questions. One's short, one's a little longer, but we're getting a call, and I'm sorry I can't get up to all the calls, but Anthony and Kendall in Miami is asking, what about dual citizens, people with dual nationalities? And the other question I have for you, Brian, is what kind of immediate impact might this have?

I mean, I know people in Venezuela advertise condos in Miami. Are we expecting an immediate impact might this have? I mean, I know people in Venezuela advertise condos in Miami. Are we expecting an immediate impact on this? With dual citizenship, one of those citizenships would have to be the U.S. If the other citizenship is Venezuela or China, that would be a problem under this. There could be immediate impact if, say, you have property under contract. Imagine a condo developer. They're selling for a condo now. It's going to be done in, say, two years, right? You have someone in Venezuela that has it under contract.

It's very common that people in other countries will buy a condo in Miami, just rent it out, and never even visit it, right? So now you have a problem this person can't close on that contract because if they closed on the contract they'd be violating the law so unless they can get u.s citizenship or become a permanent resident they can't actually execute on the contract so now what do you do here and you might have the same issue with commercial real estate you know know, Brickell City Center was developed by Swire, which is based in Hong Kong. And it has a lot of holdings in mainland China. A billion dollar development. They built one of the most spectacular projects in Miami. A billion dollar development, I'll say just for that one.

Yeah. And now they're working with Miami Dolphins owner Stephen Ross to build the largest office building in Miami, you know, a company based in China. It's not a communist company. It very much is a capitalist company. But, you know, that based in Hong Kong, which is now part of China. Right. And Dr. Zhu, just last thing, what's next with this? Just very quickly, what are you all going to do? So definitely this bill will most likely be signed by the governor. And the next step, we have some legal organizations who take they would file lawsuits against this bill. So they're going to they're going to fight it in court. We want to thank all our guests, Dr. Wei Zhu, the president of the Jacksonville Chinese Association, Wen Rui, the former president of that organization. Also joining us with Edgar Chen, who works on policy for the National Asian Pacific Island Bar Association in Washington.

And Brian Bandell from the South Florida Business Journal. Thank you all so much for joining us. And still ahead, a controversial bill that would have brought about mass demolitions in historic districts has died. Stay tuned. Welcome back to the Florida Roundup. I'm Danny Rivero in Miami. My co-host Melissa Ross is out this week, but she'll be back again next Friday. Historians rejoiced this week after a public outcry killed a bill that could have opened the door to demolishing hundreds of historic buildings across coastal Florida. Two of the places that could have been heavily impacted include the city of Miami Beach and its protected collection of Art Deco buildings. That's one of the biggest collections of the

architectural style in the world. And also avoiding the bill is historic St. Augustine. The goal of the proposal was stated to be for resilience, to clear the way for new buildings to be built that meet modern flooding standards. A lawmaker who proposed the bill promises to bring it back next year. So this story, although it's over for right now, some people are breathing easier right now, it's not over. What do you make of this proposal? Do you support it? Are you against it? You can call us at 305-995-1800. That's 305-995-1800, and you can tweet us at Florida Roundup. To talk about these developments, I'm joined in the studio now by Miami Beach Commissioner Alex Fernandez and also Julie Courtney, the Historic Preservation Officer

for the City of St. Augustine. Alex and Julie, thanks for joining me. It's a pleasure to be here. Thanks for having us. Commissioner, let's start with you. I was at a rally earlier this week in Miami Beach and you were leading chants telling Tallahassee to leave Miami Beach alone. What were you referring to when you said that? Well, historic preservation law is something very unique. It's the only way we get to protect what is our history in a young city like Miami Beach or in a rather young region like South Florida. We don't have a lot of history, but the little history that we have,

people can identify with it in part through our architecture. And it's such a big part of what makes us a destination. The Art Deco District, especially the one in South Beach, has been a top tourist attraction in Miami Dade County for many years. And not only is it a tourist attraction, but it also generates important taxes for our

community and for the state. You know, the Greater Miami Conventions and Visitors Bureau tells us that 15% of all visitors to Miami Dade County indicated the Art Deco District as their top place to visit when they come to our community. And that equates to about $2 billion spent locally of people that come. That's cultural tourism that comes to our community. And when you apply the 6% sales tax to that, you're talking about $119 million in sales taxes flowing back to Tallahassee. Sales tax is the majority of the state budget. So that's state money.

That's Tallahassee money. And that's where this really didn't make sense. attacking representatives that don't represent Miami Beach or South Florida even, attacking our historic districts when it generates so much money to the state economy and when it generates so many jobs, it just didn't make sense. And when things don't make sense, it usually is an indicator that there's something fishy going on. And, you know, how do you feel now? I mean, just this morning, the session is over. This is dead for right now.

I mean, are you breathing easier? Well, I am, but we've won the battle, but not the war. I mean, the representative has clearly stated that he's coming back next year. So our work doesn't end now. Our work continues. And we have a responsibility. Listen, the same way that I felt that state preemptions should not stand in the way of historic preservation, well, neither should local bureaucracy. And I think as local officials, we have a responsibility to make sure that the complexities of our government don't make

it difficult for people to invest in historic preservation because it is important to our economy. But since it is important to our economy, we need to kind of cut the red tape a little bit and help facilitate the process so that we don't end up with bills like this again in the future. And Julie Courtney, I want to go to you in the city of St. Augustine. When city of St. Augustine officials first saw this proposal, when you first saw this proposal, did alarm bells go off? Did you understand what was actually at stake when you first saw it? It certainly did, because we were very much on edge from last year when the governor signed into law house bill 423 which was a very similar

bill but many of the coastal communities um are those that had buildings within the flood zones were not aware of it it was kind of slid under a building code update and there were so many cities even though we tried to kind of reach out to all the certified local governments, so many cities were not aware of that being passed until it was signed into law. So of course, we were on edge this year. You know, people anticipate opening season for baseball. We're always anticipating the legislation of the season that begins in March. And I actually had a colleague from Palm Beach email me about it. We didn't see it right away.

She remembered my emails from last year, and she asked if we were aware of it. So we immediately went into action. And it's been a team effort for sure. From our city attorney, our city manager, John Regan, our mayor, Nancy Sykes-Klein. We work closely with our legislative consultant. And, you know, they visited legislators in Tallahassee and tried to have one-on-one conversations and attend some of the committee meetings as well. And Julie, I mean, even before it was ultimately, finally killed this session, St. Augustine did get itself kind of carved out from the, you know, it would only apply to

buildings 200 years or older. So you did see some success, I guess. I do want to ask you, Julie, the stated goal of this is resilience. These old buildings are not built for floods is the argument. And I do want to ask you directly about that. I mean, when it comes to some of these very old historic buildings in St. Augustine, how do they fare when flooding happens like what we saw last year with Hurricane Ian? Well, it seems like in some ways they fare better because people back in the day actually thought about things when they were constructing them a little bit more mindfully. I mean, we have buildings that are made out of coquina here, but also buildings that are built on piers. So historically, I mean, when you think about it, some of our buildings have been here for over 300 years, and they have stood the test of time compared to some of our newer buildings that we have in the outlying areas.

I want to remind the listeners, you can call us at 305-995-1800 to join this conversation. And you can also tweet us at Florida Roundup. Commissioner, I want to go back to you. I see you nodding your head and smiling at what Julie is saying. Well, nothing can prevent a catastrophe like Ian from occurring. You can't, building codes and resiliency, quote-unquote resiliency legislation, can't stop something like Ian from occurring because the reality is that this really was not about resiliency.

If this were truly about resiliency, it wouldn't focus as much about demolishing low-scale buildings, which is what a lot of our Art Deco architecture is about. It's low-scale, two-, three-scale buildings, which is what a lot of our Art Deco architecture is about. It's low-scale, two-, three-story buildings, and then replacing it with the maximum height and the maximum density allowed under the code with zero review by a historic preservation board. That's not talking to me in resiliency language. If this truly were about resiliency, it wouldn't focus as much about what is being built above ground but it would

focus more about what's happening underground what's happening with aging infrastructure and the stress the new construction is putting into into into our our infrastructure and listen you just look at what happens in downtown Miami and Brickell anytime that we have a major rainstorm and you see these new modern tall buildings surrounded by what looks like a river on floodwaters it tells you that new construction does not necessarily mean a more resilient community and in a place like Miami Beach the reality is that our historic districts are on the main sandbar of Miami Beach.

That's where our more historic buildings are at. And our newer construction are in the areas that were dredged. It's actually the newer areas of Miami Beach, the man-made areas of Miami Beach, that were dredged from mangroves that are more exposed to the challenges of catastrophe. And I have to say, older construction in Miami Beach, it tends to have crawl space that allows for venting. It also allows for water to go in and out. So the whole resiliency argument was made by people that just don't understand historic preservation and didn't engage with local communities that truly do understand it.

And Julia, I want to ask you, the Senate sponsor of this bill, Republican Brian Avila from Hialeah Gardens, you know, in a committee, he said, you know, old places, places like the Palace of Versailles, Machu Picchu, those kind of places should be protected. While seemingly implying that Florida doesn't have anything that historically important that needs protection. but Florida doesn't have anything that historically important that needs protection. What do you make of that argument that, you know, there's just not that much history here, maybe with the exception of your city, St. Augustine? Well, we totally disagree with that. I mean, it's kind of an ignorant statement to pretend that there's nothing of value in the state of Florida. I mean, obviously people come from many different reasons, but there's many people who come to Miami,

to the Keys, like Key West, to St. Augustine, Pensacola, throughout the state really, that is dotted with historic districts, downtown neighborhoods that are full of historic homes and businesses throughout the state of Florida. So we would beg to differ. We know that people choose to live in St. Augustine because of its unique sense of place. We have seven historic districts, five local historic districts. historic districts, we and very few that the hinging point was well, we're protecting the individually listed and National Register properties. But that is, again, kind of a naive

thought, because most of our contributing buildings are very much significant as well. And the National Park Service would agree with that. I do want to go to the phones. We have Brian calling from St. Augustine, actually. Brian, thanks for calling the Florida Roundup. You're on. Oh, thank you for having me on. You know, I've worked over the years since 2004 on my own doing architectural design and drafting around the area.

And I've been involved in a lot of projects in the historic district. And it's something that we understand in the design community that we have to adhere to those historic standards in those areas. And I believe that there should be some building in those areas. But the same thing is, we have a Hilton that's downtown St. Augustine. And in order for them to have their hotel down there, it wasn't going to be a high-rise or anything that's a conflict with what the local aesthetic is. And when you go downtown, you can't really even tell that it's a Hilton unless you see the sign because they adhere to the historical standards. And that's kind of part of the whole thing.

We need growth, but not at the same time. We don't want to do it at the expense of the history of the city. You know, there's so much there. There's the Fountain of Youth. There's the oldest jail, the oldest schoolhouse, the fort. There's so many things there that we need to embrace and appreciate. And when we have big developers coming in and doing larger buildings and larger builds like that, it really compromises that. Thank you so much for the call, Brian.

Commissioner, I do want to go to you. I mean, what goes into maintaining these aging buildings, maintaining the aesthetics of the area? Because there is new developments in a place like Miami Beach. But how do you all balance that? It's not like nothing new can be built. Oh, absolutely not. And every month, our historic preservation board, you know, back in January, they approved demolishing even an existing building because they do have that authority. And they approve restorations of buildings. They do variances on setbacks. They do things to help make the preservation more economically viable.

And I'm going to be bringing forward more legislation to make sure that we help make historic preservation a more streamlined process and more economically viable through tax incentives. We currently have an ad valorem tax exemption that freezes your property value to what it is before renovation, and you stay at that property value for 10 years. We do that for single-family homes to encourage the restoration and the preservation of historic homes, and we got to do it, I believe, also for commercial property. Because the reality is that of every visitor that comes to the state of Florida, 46% of them reported a visit to a historic site. And that's pretty significant.

And so when the senator that proposed this speaks of there not really being that many historic sites in the state of Florida. Well, go to Bock Tower or go to the Venetian Pool in his very own district or go to a town like Mount Dora. You know, the state of Florida is filled with rich history, beautiful communities that truly do celebrate it. And that's why representatives that represent communities that understand historic preservation should be putting forward these types of bills. And one of the scary things about this bill that the caller kind of alluded to is that if we eliminate a community's ability to put conditions as to design or height or scale or square footage of replacement construction in a historic district, then you end up with incompatible construction. Incompatible construction

that's out of scale and out of character with the surrounding districts, with the surrounding properties. And then what happens? You start to devalue historic districts when in fact historic districts are the areas that usually appreciate in value quicker than areas that are not historic. And that is the thread that this bill would have done, not only to the history and to the character of areas, but also to their economy. And one of the things that, by the way, people need to understand, this wasn't only threatening historic properties. wasn't only threatening historic properties this was also about creating incentives that if people neglected just any property in any area even not a historic district they would have been able to circumvent any any review process they could have demolished and rebuilt something without any review this was without without hearings without oversight that's correct. Julia, I want to go to you and we're getting down to the bottom of it.

But can you speak briefly of what work resources, dollars, I suppose, goes into maintaining these very historic buildings in your city? Well, our historic building owners work very hard and our city staff works very hard alongside them to give them guidance, to give them resources. We spent a lot of time not only focusing on historic preservation, but also on resiliency. And we have our chief resiliency officer, our floodplain manager, who's also our building official that our historic preservation division works closely with. And we've come up with design recommendations for historic buildings on how to become stronger within resiliency. And that whole argument that they were basically just trying to make buildings more compliant with the FEMA regulations. This is not true as well, because FEMA, who basically holds the cards to all the money that is given with assistance, they too respect historic buildings and they have exemptions for historic buildings in these flood areas. So thank you. We're going to have to leave it there. I've been talking with Miami Beach Commissioner Alex Fernandez and also Julie Courtney, a Historic Preservation Officer for St. Augustine.

Thank you, Commissioner. Thank you, Julie, so much for coming on. Thank you. It's a pleasure. Still ahead on the Florida Roundup, a new digital Bill of Rights is awaiting the signature of Governor DeSantis. What does it mean for you? We'll be right back.

back. Welcome to the Florida Roundup. I'm Danny Rivero in Miami. My co-host Melissa Ross is out this week and she'll be back again next Friday. A wide-ranging bill aimed at boosting online data privacy cleared the Florida legislature this week and is expected to be signed by Governor DeSantis. Florida is following suit of other states that have adopted data privacy laws such as California, Colorado, Connecticut, Utah, and Virginia. A comprehensive data privacy proposal failed in the U.S. Congress last year. And this Florida bill was pitched as protecting users and children from big tech companies like Facebook, Google, and others. But some small businesses say they'll be caught in the crossfire. What do you think of this new proposal?

Are you concerned about your data privacy? this new proposal. Are you concerned about your data privacy? Give us a call from anywhere in the state at the number 305-995-1800. That's 305-995-1800. And you can also tweet us at Florida Roundup. Joining us now to talk about this is Brenna Goth, who covers state legislative trends and privacy laws with Bloomberg News. Brenna, thanks so much for coming on. Thank you for having me. So, you know, just to get started, if this bill becomes law, which it is expected to become law, what rights online will Floridians have that they do not currently have right now? Yeah, that's a great question. And I would preface this by saying

that there were some kind of late-breaking amendments yesterday in the legislature. So I think a lot of us who are watching this are kind of still going through the final bill language to really see what made it in there. But the biggest component of this bill for most Florida residents are going to be those new consumer privacy rights related to how big companies are using their data online. And in Florida, the bill really targets some of the biggest tech companies.

These companies have to do more than a billion in annual revenue. They have to be either getting a lot of their money from online ads or operated smart speaker or an app store. But for those big tech companies, Florida consumers would have some new privacy rights, including some more information about what data is being collected on them, as well as the right to correct or delete that data. And also, in some cases, really tell these companies that they don't want that data used or sold or used to really make decisions about them online. And I know that there's been several small business groups that have voiced some concern about that. Because I believe, I mean, the argument goes that if people are opting out of how this data is

used, that's how small businesses connect with, you know, potential purchasers and their clients and customers and whatnot. Can you tell us a little bit about why some of those small business groups are concerned about this new bill? Yeah. And I definitely think that's something everyone's going to be reading the final bill in which really closely to see if some of those concerns were alleviated or not. But there had been a lot of concern about people opting out of targeted advertising. And, you know, even big companies would say that targeted advertising, people providing some information on themselves in order to be able to sell ads is really what keeps some of these services free.

And, you know, a lot of us as consumers are using these services without paying anything. And for small businesses, it allows them to really target the consumers that they specifically want instead of kind of spending more money to target every consumer. They can go a little bit deeper and say, okay, these are the people who would maybe be likely to use my service and I can really put my limited resources toward targeting them specifically. And do any aspects of this bill headed into the governor's desk, does any of it touch on how content moderation happens within social media platforms, say? You know, that was definitely one of the big aspects when Governor DeSantis announced what he wanted as part of a digital bill of rights. And something that drew a lot of concern from the tech industry, there is a provision that would require search engines to give

some more information and disclosures about how they are prioritizing search results. And that's something that the industry definitely has taken issue with as a content moderation measure. And there's provisions in here, and this is one of the stated purposes here is to protect children online. I mean, if you're under 18, you're 16, you scroll through the Internet all the time. I mean, how will this change how these big tech companies, again, the ones that have a billion in revenue or more, how will this change how children interact with them? Yeah, so there are some specific provisions related to children under the age of 18 in this bill. And that is really significant because federal law does have some protections for kids,

but only ages 13 and under. So really expanding that age range would add some new protections for kids. And this bill really takes a look at how companies are collecting and using their data, as well as, you know, making sure that kids are not being kind of misled into sharing more data about themselves than they might realize by just how these sites are designed. about themselves than they might realize by just how these sites are designed. And that's something we have seen other states take on as well and was definitely a big push from lawmakers in Florida this year that many, many, many teens and kids under the age of 18 are using these sites. So how are they going to be protected? You're listening to the Florida Roundup from Florida Public Radio. And Brenna, I do want to, you know, other states have started to take some of these matters into their own hands.

The federal government seems basically incapable or unwilling to pass federal legislation in this way. legislation in this way. In Utah, the state government passed essentially a ban on minors using social media without their parents okaying it. This bill falls short of doing that, right? It doesn't ban minors from using social media? That's correct. The Florida bill does not go that far. Utah took a very aggressive stance and really passed a first in the nation measure that would essentially require parents to give permission for their kids to be on these sites under the age of 18. Florida took more of the approach of looking at protections for how their data is being used, adding some more limited guardrails, I think the sponsors of these bills would say. But Utah has definitely gone the farthest,

or other states maybe are following suit, but Utah was the first to go that far. And this takes place on the backdrop of Governor DeSantis' larger push to crack down on big tech. You know, he's in the past spoken about these big tech companies as woke corporations. He wants to take the task and whatnot. I mean, how much of this falls in line with that and how much of it is actually pretty bipartisan? You know, people across the ideological spectrum are supporting this. You know, it's a great point. And I think what we are seeing across the country is really

across the political spectrum, many, many state lawmakers, and also there's a lot of desire at the federal level as well to provide more privacy protections for people online. And so you're definitely seeing Democrat led states, Republican led states pass different types of state privacy laws. I think one aspect in Florida that it's a little bit different is the, really the focus on these big tech companies.

Some states have taken an approach that really a good number of businesses that are collecting data on residents of a state would fall under state privacy laws. But Florida has made it clear with this bill that it's really the big tech companies that are being targeted. And I think part of that has really been reflected in what Governor DeSantis has said about big tech companies, his desire to, quote unquote, increase accountability, you know, concerns about how they are operating in our society, any kind of political leanings that they may have. And so even in his comments at the, you know, back in February, when he announced some of these priorities, there was a big focus on specifically big tech companies.

He used words like surveillance and overreach and made it really clear that it was these types of companies that he really wanted to target over maybe a regional or more local company that still is collecting data on its users. And what was the more or less partisan breakdown of how these votes actually went? Did this measure receive significant or notable Democratic support in addition to Republicans? You know, there has been a lot of bipartisan support in Florida for privacy legislation and for proposals to protect kids on social media. And, you know, even apart from this bill, there are several others, you know, that didn't ultimately pass that touched on social media protections for kids that did have some Democratic co-sponsorship. And so I think that also shows you that there's really bipartisan desire to take action on online privacy. I think there's just, you know, sometimes some differences in really how that's achieved.

And last question here. Do you think that state legislatures like Florida pushing to do these things on their own will eventually strong arm the federal government into pushing federal regulations? You know, I definitely think a lot of people are thinking it will go that way. I've actually talked to Republican lawmakers in other states who have led privacy proposals saying that they hope that of a broad business and tech perspective, they're thinking a federal standard, you know, if done kind of in the way that I would like would be a lot easier because then they're not having to deal with kind of a patchwork of state laws. So I definitely think that federal movement is something to keep an eye on. Right. The more confusing it gets state by state, the more the feds is pressured. Brenna Goth covers legislative trends and privacy law for Bloomberg News. Brenna, thanks so much for joining us on the Florida Roundup. Thank you for having me.

And that will about do it for our program for today. The Florida Roundup is produced by WJCT Public Media in Jacksonville and WLRN Public Media in Miami. Heather Schatz and Bridget O'Brien are the producers. WLRN's vice president of radio and our technical director is Peter Mayers. Engineering help from Doug Peterson, Charles Michaels, and Brady Corum. Richard Ives answers the phones. And our theme music is provided by Miami jazz guitarist, Aaron Leibos at Aaron Leibos.com.

Happy Cinco de Mayo. I'm Danny Rivero.