The Florida Roundup - Live from Jacksonville: City criminalizes illegal immigration, a school district deals with rapid growth and a new women’s basketball league

Episode Date: April 4, 2025

This week on The Florida Roundup, we spoke about a local ordinance the city of Jacksonville passed that mandates jail time for immigrants without legal status with two city council members (00:00). Plus, we speak to the Superintendent for St. Johns County Schools about how the school district is managing rapid population growth (19:16). And later, we learned about a new professional women’s basketball team coming to Jacksonville in 2026 (37:14)

This is the Florida Roundup. I'm Tom Hudson. We are live this week from Jacksonville at Parker Station WJCT. Live music all hour long from Rikulus, a native from Jacksonville Beach. Rikulus, great to have you along for the full hour here for this special live in-person Florida Roundup across the Sunshine State. Well, this city we're in now, Jacksonville, is at the center of the effort over immigration enforcement. The city council passed what is likely the first in the nation city ordinance

criminalizing illegal immigration. The mayor did not veto the measure, but she didn't sign it either. So it will become law in Jacksonville without her signature. Now, it's a local immigration enforcement action that is unlike any other. It comes after the election of President Donald Trump and his campaign to crack down on illegal immigration,

and after the Florida legislature passed its own state-level immigration enforcement laws earlier this year. So how should a city enforce federal immigration laws? If local police don't arrest someone suspected of being undocumented, are they providing sanctuary? What is the power, the proper power, for local government and police

when it comes to immigration? So you can email us across the state, our inbox we brought with us here in Jacksonville. It's radio at thefl Roundup dot org radio at the Florida Roundup dot org we've got two members of the Jacksonville Council with us Nick Howland and Jimmy Paluso gentlemen thank you so much for being here welcome to Jacksonville WJCT in the Florida Roundup great to have you. Tom thanks for having us and great to have Florida Roundup here in Jacksonville.. Thank you. Tom, thanks for having us and great to have Florida Roundup here in Jackson.

Right on, great to be here. All right, Council Member Howland, let's start with you. You supported this ordinance. Why did you vote in favor of it? Yeah, Tom, thanks for asking. This is a terrific bill and first off I wanna thank Councilman Carrico and Sheriff T.K. Waters and my colleagues

for passing this bill. With this bill, our city is standing with the president, the governor, the state legislature, to lead the way, securing our borders, reversing the Biden wave of illegal immigration, and keeping our streets and neighborhoods safe. Tom, there's really no doubt, during the four years of the Biden presidency,

our border policies failed. If you look at a recent House committee on oversight, there were over 1.7 million known gotaways. That's illegal immigrants who've evaded border patrol, who are living here in the interior of the United States without documentation, and they've not been vetted by immigration officials. This law targets them. There's nothing in here in this law that targets the 47 million legal immigrants. This law targets people who are already living here illegally having broken the law. This law, its jurisdiction is Jacksonville.

Exactly. Not all of those statistics that you mentioned clearly are in Jacksonville. What was the impetus for you though to take federal immigration enforcement, the law that's on the books, and the need for some kind of local ordinance? It's been a problem here in Jacksonville, just like it's been a problem statewide and a problem in the United States. In 2024, Jacksonville Sheriff's Office, and Tom, just for listeners not in Duval County or Jacksonville, Duval County and the City of Jacksonville. The city of Jacksonville is not in Duval County or Jacksonville. Duval County and the city of Jacksonville are the same government. They're a consolidated government. So just in the city of Jacksonville, which is also Duval

County, there were 602 illegal aliens detained in 2024. Of those, ICE took custody of about 334. The rest either did a little bit of time or bailed out. What's great about this law is it doesn't change anything about the fact that JSO has to do lawful detention with reasonable cause. But what it does do that's different from state and federal law is it makes it a crime to reside within the county.

The state law only makes it a crime to enter in the county. So now JSO can use this law to detain folks until they can get them to ICE. And it keeps dangerous criminals, people who have already broken the law off the county. So now JSO can use this law to detain folks until they can get them to ICE. And it keeps dangerous criminals, people who have already broken the law off the streets. All right. Council member Peluso, what was your opposition to this ordinance? Well, thank you for having me. I love being on the radio. My father says I have a face for radio, so I really appreciate it. This bill is a stain on our county, on our city, I really appreciate it. This bill is a stain on our county, on our city,

and in the residents that call it home. I gotta say, I was taken aback when it was filed by our vice presidential member, Kevin Carrico, and what this does is it creates a new chapter in our city ordinance code, and that new chapter says prohibition of unlawful aliens. We are prohibiting people from being in our county. We're the first county to do this in the state.

And if you know anything about the nation, so if you know anything about the history of southern cities in particular with Jim Crow laws, with black codes, this feels very much like a sundown law to me. And for somebody who lives in an area of Jacksonville law, and I think that's a really good point. I think that's a really good point. And I think that's a really good point. And I think that's a really good point. And I think that's a really good point.

And I think that's a really good point. And I think that's a really good point. And I think that's a really good point. Now we're saying people aren't allowed to be walking on our streets. It's despicable and disgusting staying on our city. It spits in the face of what America represents. It spits in the face of the massive population of Jacksonville, which are non-white. But how do you respond to Councilmember Howland about the number of undocumented immigrants, the number of people who have crossed the border illegally, regardless of the administration that happened to be in the White House at the time?

Well, you used the term correctly a moment ago, undocumented, right? People are not illegal. Human beings are not illegal. That needs to be reminded to people time and time again. At the federal level... So they're called illegal aliens under law. That's the legal title, the legal words that's used. Others may use people without legal status.

So it is a civil violation. It is not a criminal violation. And for us to take a federal civil violation and for us to, in Duval County, say it is now criminal just to be in the city limits of Jacksonville. And if you are caught, you have to be in our jail for 30 days, a minimum of 30 days. Anyone that knows anything about the jail here in Jacksonville, on top of the fact that

it is a civil rights nightmare, the place looks terrible, but on top of that, it's overcrowded. And if we're going to put people in there who are just trying to walk our streets, just trying to live in our city, get a job, maybe drive their kid to school, what we're doing is we are putting our JSO officers in a position now where they're not going to get called to go into certain communities, because people are afraid that they might show up at their door and put them in jail.

And if we're putting our officers at risk like that, it's a total misuse of our ability to create good policy. Council member Howland, let me ask you to respond about how you think the Sheriff's Office is going to implement this law, because this will be the ordinance, this is on the books in Duval and Jacksonville. How do you anticipate law enforcement to enforce it?

Yeah, well the only people that this law discriminates against are people who've broken the law. That's claiming. That's claiming. By entering the country without legal status. Yeah. And it's really interesting to hear what my colleague says because sometimes the progressive

part of the Democratic Party likes to highlight countries they see as being very progressive in various policies they implement. Denmark, Sweden, Canada, all three of those countries which are commonly highlighted as places that are leading the way in progressive laws detain and remove illegal immigrants. Denmark and Sweden don't even give them access to healthcare or affordable housing. But those are... Canada has carried out mass deportations. Gotcha. So those are federal government level laws.

Yeah. This is a local government law. What was the need for this local law, given that you're talking about federal law and there are federal law does exist. And obviously we have the new state laws here in Florida as well. There is, Tom. Glad you asked. There is where a federal country, I mean, we're broken up into political subdivisions.

Yes, we are. From the country to the states to the counties to the cities. And this helps the county sheriff's office, the state officials and the federals deal with a real criminal problem we have, and that's illegal. But how do you anticipate the JSO, the officers, the deputies on the street to implement this law? There's tens of thousands of dollars included in this ordinance for mobile fingerprint scanners, for instance. You anticipate them literally taking fingerprints

on street corners, on traffic stops? No, I mean, this law does not implement stop and frisk. There are no changes here to the requirement guaranteed by the Constitution and the state constitution for lawful detention with reasonable cause. The fingerprint scanners will be used as kind of a third step. First of all, you've got to detain someone in a lawful way and for reasonable cause. Second, you ask for identification. Chances are someone here is undocumented and won't have that identification,

and then use the fingerprint scanners. This bill, besides making it illegal to enter and reside in Duval County also funds additional 25 fingerprint scanners for our really large 3000 member strong Jacksonville Sheriff's Office. And that they already have about 150. So that will give them what they need to now have one on every patrol to be able to find out who they're talking to, who they've already detained lawfully.

Council member Peluso, let me ask you, doesn't having this law, or if this law was not on the books in Jacksonville, if the city council did not approve this, would that, in your opinion, make Jacksonville somehow a sanctuary for illegal aliens under the law? No, no, there are no sanctuary cities in the state of Florida. The legislature made sure that many years ago. And so none of them exist. And Duval County, Jacksonville, Orlando, Miami,

Fort Lauderdale, Tampa, none of them are sanctuary cities by our state law. What this does is it places Jacksonville in a wholly different category than the entire 67 counties in our state. And we make it so that people can't even, I guess, drive through here. God forbid if you drive through the through Duval County right now. And that council member how one saying, you know, if you're not if you haven't

broken some other law, there has to be some kind of other reasonable call instigation. So we already have state law. So we are taking state law and we are ramping up to 100. The real concern that I have, law, so we are taking state law and we are ramping it up to 100. The real concern that I have, right, is not, okay. If you break the law, you break the law, right? We know that. If you do a criminal act, you should get penalized,

you should go to jail, everything else. That's not what this does. This takes normal, everyday individuals that are just living their lives and we are now putting them on a pedestal and we are using them, we are basically bullying one sector of the population. And if there's one thing that I don't like

and one of the things that I made sure when I got elected, it was to make sure that I don't bully any individual or make someone feel like they deserve less than the rest of the tax paying citizens of our county. Council Member Peluso, is there any version of immigration enforcement at the local level that you would support? At the local level, no.

It's a federal issue. I mean, what are we talking about here? So this is a federal issue that's been passed around from administration to administration for the past several years. And if you look back when George W. Bush was president, he was pushing for people to find a pathway to citizenship. It's a shame that at the federal level, we couldn't figure this out decades ago.

Instead, they passed the buck time and time again. It's not for us in the city of Jacksonville to do the law of our elected officials up in Washington, D.C. And for us to waste our time and energy on this, when we should be putting our time and energy into our parks, our roads, our children's education, that's what we should be caring about. I don't know. Jimmy Bluso is a council member here in Jacksonville.

We've got Nick Howland, also a council member of Jacksonville. We are live from WJCT, our partner station here in Northeast Florida on the Florida Roundup. Chad is with us from South Bank. Council member Howland, he says, this administration is using heavy-handed tactics everywhere, but immigration sweeps have illegal immigrants scared, I'm going to read out the question from a member, how and he says this administration is using heavy handed tactics everywhere but immigration sweeps have illegal immigrants

scared businesses are suffering. What what tell when was the question that they have illegal immigrants scared or legal immigrants scared legal immigrants. Yeah. And there's nothing in this law that targets the 47 million legal immigrants here in the United States. Nothing in this law. This law targets those who've committed a crime, who are here illegally, who slipped through our border without documentation and without being properly vetted.

If, you know, it's interesting, this law only targets lawbreakers. And if the law was so bad, then why did the mayor let it become law? If you're so upset, you know, not signing it and letting it become law? If you're so upset, you know, not signing it and letting it become law is the same thing. So let me just give the context for the listeners, right? So the mayor, Donna Deegan, decided this week, announced this week, she was not going to veto the legislation,

nor was she going to sign it. And so by law default, it becomes law, even without her signature. Yeah. Right, so council member Peluso? Yeah, I think the answer to that is- You support her decision? So what the mayor did was she knew her signature. Yeah, right. So, Councilmember Peluso? Yeah, I think the answer you add is you support her decision? So what the mayor did was she knew that by dragging this on

even longer, having to go back to city council to do X, Y and Z, we're just adding more fuel to the fire. This is a mayor who cares about the citizens of Jacksonville and making sure that she's doing things that she knows can affect their lives. And so I believe her administration was saying the other day, we know this is going to go through the courts. We know it's going to be invalidated. We know this is just a lot of noise rather than addressing the real problems facing our city.

And so by not by not allowing more time to go on over this debate, it's now over and done with. And we can allow the courts to do what they're supposed to do, which is rip this law out. My biggest concern we had a is that now we have this in our ordinance code, and we need to remove that chapter the moment that this bill gets invalidated. As I understand it, we actually don't have it in the ordinance code till we gavel out

of the city council meeting on April 8th. So by having not- And then will it take effect immediately? Yeah, by having not signed it now and letting go to law, unless she vetoes it by April 8th, it will go to law. And she's taking an action, whether to sign it or not sign it, she's deciding that she's gonna let it go to law. Mike in Southside asked,

do you really think the mayor would have been removed had she vetoed the bill? There had been some veiled and not so veiled language coming from the state attorney general regarding local elected officials and whether or not they support and approve certain immigration enforcement actions. Yeah, we've seen this administration,

we've seen the DeSantis administration, and we've obviously seen a lot of rhetoric come out of the state attorney general's office, that to me makes me really believe that they would have removed not only the mayor, but other council members, duly elected individuals. And I mean, this is what we see in third world countries, right?

And this governor has done that time and time again. He's removed two attorney generals. He's removed members from school boards. He's removed people that he believes had broken the law. And in many cases they hadn't. So let me ask Council Member Howland, do you think that the city council here in Jacksonville had to approve some kind of ordinance

regarding immigration enforcement at the local level? Well, at the end of the day, the number one job of local government is to keep its citizens safe. That's the number one job of the sheriff, it's the number one job of city council, it should be the number one job of the mayor. So yes, I think this bill was imperative. But you think there was a legal requirement from the state legislature to have to have some kind of local response? I think the legal requirement from the state legislature is for the counties and the municipalities to do everything they can to help enforce the state law and add to it if necessary to keep the streets and neighborhoods safe and to criminalize illegal immigration.

Question from Alex from Jacksonville Beach to the economic issue here. What's the additional cost to the police department to hold detain illegal immigrants until ICE arrives to deport them? It'll be part of their job. There's an additional cost with $76,000 for the additional fingerprint scanners, but this is part of what the sheriff's job is going to be in the next several years. And if he needs to add up and add more officers, it's allocated as part of the state law. But in terms of detaining folks under this ordinance before federal authorities take possession of them, are there state dollars that are going to help offset

some of that cost that the Jacksonville Sheriff's Office is going to realize? Now, don't quote me on this exactly, but I think the state law created a 200 million plus additional state dollars for that very purpose for the counties and the municipalities. Yeah, to that point, I mean, JSO claimed to us that it would be $60 a day

for an individual to stay within the jail. And that number seems wholly inadequate. And it certainly doesn't take into account the fact that you have to process individuals. There's so many man hours that now our officers are gonna have to take to go through the processing, whether it be at a traffic stop or something along those lines.

That's considered illegal, by the way. And so, you know, they got it. One officer now has to waste four or five or six hours of their day, then they have to go through processing. Then a judge needs to see them for first appearance the next day. It's definitely not $60 a day, what it is.

It's a massive cost, and it's going to place more individuals that are not violent in our jail. It's going to make them sit there for 30 days. It's a complete waste of time, energy, and money. Necessary to spend what we need to spend to keep our streets and neighborhoods safe. It's the number one goal of local government. Yeah, keeping our streets and neighborhoods safe

makes perfect sense. Regarding expenditures of tax dollars, is there an appetite and budget for the eventual legal challenges to this ordinance? Yeah, I mean, that's a guessing that that can happen. It's a hypothetical question, I understand, which is always tough to a lawyer. The constitutionality of these kinds of laws

is up to the courts to decide, but as a legislative body, the city council, we can't fear what might be deemed unconstitutional by a court. We need to enact the laws that we believe are right by the charter, by the state constitution, by the U.S. constitution to keep our streets and our communities safe. All right. Well, listen, council members, thank you very much for joining us here on the Florida Roundup

for a robust conversation. Nick Howland and Jimmy Peluso, thank you so much for your time here on the Florida Roundup. Great to have everybody, we're live this week at WJCT, our partner station in Jacksonville. Rikulus is along with us for plenty of music and we still love to hear from you. Email us radio at theflorideroundup.org. Coming up later on, we're going to talk about efforts to bring professional women's basketball to Florida, especially here in the First Coast, in Northeast Florida. You got a nickname for a team you want to recommend? Send us a note. Radio at thefloridaroundup.org. Still to come here on our live program, managing the

explosive growth in one Northeast Florida county and the demands that it is putting on public schools. That's still to come as the Florida Roundup continues here live from partner station WJCT in Jacksonville. Stick with us here on Florida Public Radio. We are back on the Florida Roundup. I'm Tom Hudson. We're live this week from partner station WJCT in Jacksonville in front of a crowd of a few hundred of our closest friends here on the First Coast who are well fed after their free

lunch here at our partner station. Great to have everybody with us. Ricky List is on guitar. Thank you so much for helping us out as well. Have a great time here on the Florida Roundup. Next week on this program, what does three quarters of 1% mean to you? Now a measure to cut the state sales tax by three quarters of 1 percent mean to you? Now a measure to cut the state sales tax by three quarters of one percent is making its way through the

state legislature right now in Tallahassee. The sales tax on your receipts could go down. Governor Ron DeSantis though he would rather see property taxes be eliminated. So coming up next week which tax would mean more money stays in your pocket? Which tax would impact your community more and the services that you expect? You can let us know by emailing now radio at the floridaroundup.org, radio at the floridaroundup.org, and we may share your story next week on our program. Now, buckle in. The fastest growing county in Florida this decade is just south of where we sit right now in Duval and Jacksonville. St. John's County, it has grown

by more than 20 percent since 2020 and it's expected to see its population double, double and it's expected to see its population double, double by the middle of this century, which is not that far away. This kind of growth means a lot more cars on the roads, certainly as everybody can attest to and the superintendent can as well. We'll introduce him here in a moment. A lot more demand for housing, right?

A lot of single family homes, apartments, condominiums, and of course a lot more students in classrooms. So Tim Parson is with us now, the superintendent of the St. John's County School District. Superintendent, welcome to the program on the Florida Roundup. Nice to have you. Thank you. Thank you for the opportunity to be here with you today. How was traffic today coming up from St. John's County? It was traffic as it always is between St. John's County and Dubo County. I will share that, you know, as a proud member of the Florida Public Radio team, bad traffic can be good for radio sometimes

but we can empathize nonetheless. So are there enough public school desks in St. John's County today? Well there is always going to be enough because here's it you know when you you talk about infrastructure in a community, schools have to be on time. So when a family moves in, you have to have a place for the child, and so, in our system, but it doesn't always mean that it's a permanent setting. So you can look in our systems. Kids get older, it tends to be, right?

Yeah, and so what happens is, as families move in, we respond to it as we should as a school district. And if I took these three years, right within this window of time that we're in now, we opened two K-8 schools this year. Each of them have a capacity of 1500 students. We'll open another one this coming school year in 2025 that has a capacity of 1100 and then in the next year open two more K-8s that also each have a capacity of 1500

students. So in St. John's we've been that world. So that's over 7000 new desks by back of the envelope there. It is and a three year window and the truth is that's not enough. I mean what you do in a system is those schools that we're building right now are for children that are honestly they're already here because the flow of dollars into a school district happen after the house is built, after the family is there, you're heavily dependent on property taxes. And so those property taxes don't increase until that house is occupied. And it can be two years down the window before

you start to see a return on that as far as an infrastructure and an ability to build the school. When the shovels are going into the ground though, there are impact fees that counties charge. And in St. John's County, it's about $20,000 or so for a home of about 2,000 square feet. That sound about right? Yeah but you're referencing to the total impact fees. Total right. The school portion of that is about five grand. Yeah. It's about 25% of it. Is it enough? Well I think it's not a lot enough alone and that's we have a good system that works but it is a system that works on the ability to get cash into the district at

the at the time you need it and and so what happens is you're building for the children that are already there because you're having a the revenue starts to flow as those families are there it You can't build on projections. You can't build on what you think are gonna happen because you don't have the dollars to do that. So you build as they come. So we do have portable classrooms in our system. We have almost 600.

We lease them because if we purchase them, they then become the standard. And that's what you are. You're a system of permanent capacity and a system of portables. The lifespan of those is very short. And so we have a belief system. So is this financial system working though for a county that's experiencing such explosive

growth like St. John's? Is there some other model that you're aware of or as you've tried to manage this, even over the course of three years that you've seen, you know, there might be a different way. Sure. I think it works as well in St. John's as anywhere in the state. I'm not trying to be arrogant about it, but we have impact fees that work well. We have developers that build big projects, and there is something called proportionate share mitigation.

There's a statutory requirement that they come to the table with us and most of our property of all of our schools that we've constructed in the last 10 to 15 years have been part of that mitigation. They know that they have to be able to share with the district, whether that's land or dollars or both. In almost all cases, it's both, and that helps us to move forward and then impact fees and then of course there's a 1.5 of property tax millage is really just for capital yeah and for maintenance of your facilities. I'll ask you about

property taxes in a minute. That's something that's on certainly everybody's agenda here but on the impact fees schools don't get any impact fees from commercial development from hotels or medical facilities. Right. Is that appropriate? Well, I think it is the it's the model of what impact fees are and should be. The impact fees are what does it by its title it's an impact fee. So we should only be able to charge impact fees if it's a residential and it's gonna have children and families that are gonna be in our system. And I think that makes sense.

Some members of the St. John's County Commission have endorsed slower growth to kind of, let's figure out some ways to perhaps take the foot off the accelerator. As you've experienced the impact on schools and the growth that you talked about, 7,100 new desks in the past, three years I think it was. Would you support some policies that perhaps

ease the development, slow the development? Well I think it's probably not the answer you might be looking for. I'm born and raised in Central America. Only an honest answer. Yes, I'm just going to tell you what I truly believe and think in all of this is that as a school system, we shouldn't be pro-growth or anti-growth. And we're really not. We're the infrastructure. So our job is as that happens in a county or as that happens in a system, as you mentioned

earlier, are the elements in place for us to be responsive. And so impact fees are important. They're an important tool in St. John's County. They're an important part of several funding mechanisms. So I would say our job as a system, my job is not to drive more growth or less growth. My job is to respond to whatever that growth is and to make sure we're supporting children. I suspect you would agree though, that the quality of and reputation of a public education school district does have an impact on growth.

Oh, yeah, it does. So, it's not the work that Tim has done, but it is the work that teachers and school leaders and others have done. So it does, it feeds itself over time. Jay in St. John's is in the audience here with us at WJCT in Jacksonville. With St. John's County Schools being top ranked in the state, he asked why, or she asked why, is our teacher pay so low, especially for experienced and high performing teachers?

Yeah, and I think when we look at that, teacher pay so low, especially for experienced and high performing teachers? Yeah, and I think when we look at that, teacher pay is comparable and is fairly tight all the way across the state, because it is a state system that generates what we call FTE or FEFP system. All these acronyms. Yeah, yeah, I gotta be careful with that. How much of the overall operating budget

comes from the state versus local taxes? Well, for us, it's a pretty balanced piece. Oh, 50-50. Yeah. So, back to teacher pay. Because we're a property-rich district. A big growth. Yep, yep.

There are other districts where that percentage is not that at all. But for us, it is that. So when you can go across, because people will talk about, gosh, you're the lowest paid or you're the highest paid, and you go all of Northeast Florida, the range is not very big. And we've been blessed in the voters of St. John's County in the past election of receiving a one mill increase. That one mill, 85% of those dollars are going right back into pay. One mill is a percent, it's not one million, it's a million, it's a figure of property tax language. Yes.

And so that's going into teacher pay. Yes, 85% of that goes right back into teacher and employee pay. What's a starting pay for a teacher? It is 48,600 something, 48,632 something of that nature. Yes. But looking at it in this year coming up, something 48 632 something of that nature yes okay but but it like looking at it and this year coming up it'll be that plus a forty five hundred dollar supplement because of the one mill that was approved this past year so we've

talked a little bit about property taxes which is a significant part of the revenue for schools and as you're trying to build schools looking to expand schools it's being driven to some degree by the capital the resources the financial dollars that you have about 80% of st. John's property taxes total property tax are paid by homeowners so it is dominant residential right it's single family homes particularly some some condominiums the governor has endorsed doing away with property taxes what would that mean in a school district that's experiencing and trying to manage explosive growth like St. John's?

Yeah, I think for us, if that's done without any regard for how do you replace the revenue or the ability of a system to operate, it could be very hazardous. It could be very, very tough on a school district. So I think any decision like that, that's a statewide decision, has could be very, very tough on a school district. So I think any decision like that, that's a statewide decision, has to be with the mind of if that's primary revenue is not going to come to a school system, how are we going to replace that and how can that happen? It could be hurtful.

Where is the voice of public education in that debate that is kind of happening both in social media and in the capital, but also in communities like Duval and Jacksonville and elsewhere. Yeah, I think I myself, I'm blessed and honored that I serve as president of FADS. It's the State Association of Superintendents. And we voice with both our local delegations and state delegations that just express and try to explain sometimes decisions that might be made by a legislator because they're so expansive,

can be helpful or harmful without them even understanding it. So we work hard to educate and spend time with them. I was actually in Tallahassee this week and I'll be in Tallahassee again next week in an effort to try to be a vote. You want to share some of the conversation with the superintendent? No. The superintendent of St. John's County Public Schools is along with us here as we are live from our partner station WJCT Tem Tim Horson is his name.

He has been a long time public educator here in the state of Florida. How many years? This is my 45th year. 45th year. How about that? Wow. Well, congratulations on the service to the children. You are listening to the Florida Rondo from your Florida Public Radio station. So Tim, let me talk a little bit about public education. We talked about the finances and all that gritty stuff and the growth management in St. John's. But because you've been an educator for now, I mean, almost a half decade, holy cow, contemporary news here.

The district, St. John's, has removed about 50 books, over 50 books from its school libraries. Are you satisfied with the process that's set up by the state legislature and the Department of Education regarding challenges to school books? Yeah, so I think it's really two-fold. When you say, am I satisfied by the state, it's really are the statutes that are now in place allowing locally For school boards and local decision makers to have that process. I am very satisfied with the process that we have Here's one thing about books We could be in this room today and we put a range to say I say it's in you say it's out

None of us will agree at the same place as to what books are acceptable and what are not. We use a district review committee that contains parents, media specialists that are trained in professional and teachers and staff. So it is a committee that we look to have a consistent tool for how we assess the decisions that we make about books. Describe a little bit about the consistent tool, the efforts toward that consistency, while at the same time acknowledging that it is a bit in the eye of the beholder sometimes. What one parent may say is perfectly allowed for their six-year-old or their 16-year-old. Another parent who may live right across the street may say not for my child.

And that happens every day. Yes. That's the reality of it every day. I have six children, okay. So I look at it, yes. And I look at it, would it be acceptable for my children at whatever age or whatever point? That may be right or wrong, but the honest truth is when this started, I read more young adult books than I ever read as a young adult because as I went through it, I felt like if I don't know

the book from start to finish, I need to be careful about offering a recommendation to our school board about a book being in it. What did you come away with? What were some of the criteria you were reading for and looking at that through the eyes of a parent of six children, but also through the eyes of a professional public educator with 45 years experience? Yeah, I think sometimes we underestimate children and kids and young adults, and that the world is when they walk across the stage as their graduates, guess what, we're not holding their hand, they're independent, so you can't be so protective and so sheltering of children that they don't start to understand the world, the range of the world. Now, I say that by the same token that I can read a book and say, if the theme of the book is lost by vulgarity

or sexual contact, then I would say it's not for us. And I will use language that probably, it's very political, book banning or book acceptance, and so that's not where I'm gonna live. I'll just be honest, I'm gonna look at is it right for children in St. John's County? We're gonna accept it and we're gonna move forward.

Is it not? It's St. John's County? We're gonna accept it and we're gonna move forward. Is it not? It's not gonna be part of our offering and our opportunity. Would you agree the pendulum has swung to the side of a real critical look and perhaps a bias toward removal first in consideration next. So where do you think this is going in Florida, which has had, you know, the, I think it's the largest number of books banned in public schools across the nation.

Yeah, I think it will eventually go to a place of, you know, what's that place of stability and what is the right place to be? I think part of the reason where it is is that for a long time there was just kind of a lack of awareness. Well, what are the books? So on the plus side of it, I think people now understand, well, what is the content? And I will tell you, it in no way compares at any level to what kids have access to. It's not even close. What is access to a young kid in today's world through their phone and through social media is far beyond anything in any book that I've read, very honestly. Maybe it's gotten us reading a lot more young adult books too, Tim. Thank you very much for being here, much appreciated. I appreciate it. Tim Forsum is the superintendent of the St. John's County Public School System. Stick with us here on the

Florida Roundup live from partner station WJCT this week in Jacksonville. We've got more to come, efforts to bring professional women's basketball to Florida. You got any team name ideas? We'd love to hear them. Email now radio at the floridaroundup.org you're listening to the Florida Roundup from your Florida Public Radio Station. We'll be right back. All right we are live here from partner station WJCT in Jacksonville. It is great to be along with you for a live Florida Roundup on the road here in the First Coast. My name is Tom Hudson. Riculus is along with us for a live Florida roundup on the road here in the First Coast. My name is Tom Hudson. Riculus is along with us on guitar all hour long.

How about it? Jacksonville Beach native. Great to have you with us here. We're going to have a song from him coming up in about 10 minutes. So be sure to stick with us here. College basketball championships, final four getting underway this weekend and Florida is front and center of both tournaments. Yes the Florida Gators men's team is playing in the final four. Go Gators. And the women's championship

is awarded in Florida here on Florida soil. It's the women's final four is in Tampa tipping off later today on this Friday. Women's basketball has experienced huge growth in recent years, accelerated by Caitlin Clark and Angela Reese. This year in the WNBA, I will say that I am an Iowa Hawkeye alum, proudly. Wow, that's impressive. Well, it is now, it wasn't so much for a while, and it's not because of me, of course.

It's all because of you. Well, at the league, the WNBA is expanding next year in California and to Toronto and Portland next year. Florida may compete for its own WNBA team right here in Jacksonville in the years ahead. We'll have to see. The city already is headquarters of the new Upshot League and the former president of the WNBA, Donna Rinder, is with us now leading both efforts. Donna the rest of the week. And we're going to be doing this for the rest of the week. And we're going to be doing this

for the rest of the week. And we're going to be doing this for the rest of the week. And we're going to be doing this for the rest of the week. And we're going to be doing this for the rest of the week. And we're going to be doing this

for the rest of the week. And we're going to be doing this for the rest of the week. And we're going to be doing this for the rest of the week. And we're going to be doing this for the rest of the week. And we're going to be doing this

for the rest of the week. And we're going to be doing this for the rest of the week. And we're going to be doing this for the rest of the week. shirt there, look at that upshot league. What are your hopes for this league? Oh, my hopes, my hopes and dreams come true all at once. Aspirations. Without a doubt. I think this is the time. I think that sports are more important than ever. I think the rise in appreciation for women's sports is fantastic and also about time.

When you look at communities and where we are, I just hosted Generation W, which is a national thought leadership event, and we invited the Harris Poll to come in. And we wanted to talk about who we were and what we think, and what's interesting was they launched a sports momentum poll. And what they found that despite all of our differences,

the one area we really come together, especially in divisive times is around sports, that our fandom is something that connects us in meaningful ways. And every community rallies around their sports. But that's always been the case, right? No, more so, but they're finding other numbers more so than ever before.

So Caitlin Clark, Angel Reese from the WNBA, the role that they've played. Amazing. Right, it has brought an incredible amount of attention and money, importantly money. $240 million last year alone. So how is Upshot trying to capitalize on this, to take advantage of this?

Well, first of all, there's a tremendous amount of talent in terms of this. And when we look at the WNBA, you brought up Jacksonville. I've been looking at WNBA team for this market for a very, very long time. And as you probably would understand, as the leader of the WNBA,

traveled across the country, met with governors and mayors, trying to know what a good market is. I love the Jacksonville market. I love all of us. What about Jacksonville? Northeast Florida makes it a prime market, in your opinion, for a WNBA?

I think we have the fan base, right? We have just a beautiful culture that loves to support sports, and we don't have a whole lot of competition. Can it support both WNBA and your new upshot endeavor? I don't, listen, the thing is that made us create upshot is because there's such a glaring gap in the marketplace for women's basketball.

WNBA has 12 teams now, they're gonna add the Valkyries, then they're gonna add two more teams, Toronto and Portland, then they're gonna add Cleveland. After that, NBA owners, my NBA owners who, you know, kind of said we love you but we're leaving you, they wanna come back. I wanna say too late, but honestly, they own 45 or 49% of the league, they're gonna come back.

So if you look at who they are and the money they've already put up, we're way back. So why should we wait? Why should we wait? We should go now, we should, and if you look at the number of athletes, quick data point. Last three years of drafting top WNBA talent, there were 108 athletes drafted. 20 of them, 20 over three years total made a roster. And not many of them made end year rosters. So you think of all that talent, plus other hundreds

of talent that's coming out now. So that's the talent on the court. That's a talent on the court. But you need eyeballs. I'm looking at them. You are here at WJCT. How many women's basketball fans do we have in the house ready for a final four in Tampa? So some nice, so you've got some converts though, some folks not raising their hands right? So. Oh it's always, listen that's the story of my life. I love that part. It's all good. Well you the story of my life. I love that part. It's all good. Well, you're a competitor by heart.

I am an athlete and I'm a competitor, but I also know what's good and what people like and what people like to rally around. And these are the kind of things, community-based goodness. So on the competition, though, you've got another league, a three-on-three league, Unrivaled, based in Miami, that has already been playing six teams, 14 games.

Is there a market for Unrivaled, for Upshot, for WNBA in Florida? Yes, without a doubt. Unrivaled, honestly, I see Unrivaled as a potential partner for us over time. Much different product based in Miami. Maybe they travel, maybe they come to our arenas. And it's a different game. So I don't have any issues with that at all none whatsoever What is any of this doing to player salaries and the economics?

Well, that's one of the big issues as well as the CBA which is a collective bargaining agreement The WNBA is in the process of initiating they have one more year under their current term the union agreement Yeah, a union agreement and so we'll see what happens. Yes, the player salaries will go up. How much? I don't know. There is an expectation that's way up here. Like, we've been doing this for so long, we need to owe us. But on the other hand, their owners have invested billions and millions and billions of dollars

at their own cost. We're going to see where it ends up. Unrivaled players are getting a minimum of $100,000 for a season. What's it look like for Upshot? I think we will be very competitive in what we're doing in terms of housing, benefits. We will probably be in parity with some of the minor league men's teams. It's more, actually it's probably bigger than the base

the years that I actually served as commissioner. And so what's necessary back to the WNBA? I mean, is that the brass ring here for women in basketball? It can be. I mean, it can be, sure. I mean, I think there are a lot of teams that will come in and say, well, that's where we ultimately want to be. And maybe we transition. We will be in Charlotte. There's an NBA team in Charlotte. I'll be meeting with their owners, I hope, soon, because they should be in with the Upshot League for now. Do you have the financial structure in place, ready to make that move? I love our model.

No, in other words, we would not convert right now. We're gonna build an incredible league, it's called the upshot league, right? We're gonna up everyone's shot. We're gonna give a place for players to play and be better. We're gonna front office, coaches, all of the development stuff and opportunities that aren't out there now and we're gonna create great

Entertainment because that's what we know how to do. You're gonna challenge me on that one, too No, I'm not no no no no I think If you find a great entertainment, you should go for that's an affordable. Yeah, but here but here affordable So did afford to find that ticket price ticket prices. Well right now we are selling a ticket price ticket prices well right now we are selling a ticket price reservation for tickets in every market at $44 for all four tickets no no no $44 that reserves you the place to become a season ticket holder gotcha now so the ticket price has been so you talk about us competing we have to talk about our fan base compete yeah right sure Valkyries is the first team to be added since 2008,

first team to add 10,000 season tickets. I think we can do that in Jacksonville. I mean, people say I'm crazy, but that's okay. This is for Upshot. You're still asking for a team name? We are. Yes, all right. So we put that out there to the hive mind

of the Florida Roundup audience. What do we got? Mahonda in Melbourne writes, "'My favorite teams are the Atlanta Dream and the Florida Roundup audience. What do we got? Mahonda in Melbourne writes, my favorite teams are the Atlanta Dream and the Las Vegas Aces. I went to my first couple of games a few years ago in Las Vegas. It was electric.

I think a WNBA team would be a wonderful addition to the area. I live in Melbourne and would be happy to drive up to the Jacksonville area. Awesome. I'd suggest the Jacksonville Jets. Jets? The Jets. Wow, I'm in New York. Jacksonville Jets. Jets? The Jets.

Wow, I'm in New York. Does professional sports need another Jets? Yeah, I grew up in New York, it's a little hard, but I hear her, yes. Thomas wrote, how about the Jacksonville journey? Whoa, I think Mayor, wasn't that one of our Mayor's programs? Okay, let's see here.

We've got one more from Miss Smith, the Jacksonville Bobcats. Go wildlife. Listen, like you guys have to love it. We've actually received a lot of names. The Bobcats were the Hornets before they were back to the Hornets. All right. Any favorite for you yet? I do. I do. You gonna share with us? No. You sure? I am sure. It's just between us. It is between us.

Right? Yes it is. Donna Rinder here with us, the former WNBA president. Thanks so much. It was a pleasure. Great to have you. I'm Tom Hudson. You're listening to the Florida Ronda here on Florida Public Radio.

Finally this week, some Northeast Florida music. Shall we do it, Riculus? How about it? Let's get underway with our musical guest, Riculus, who's been with us throughout the entire hour. Take it away, sir. Play us out to the weekend. All right.

Is it going? ["The Most Beautiful Thing I've Ever seen You were born when I was green And soaking into everything A diamond child with lion eyes Shining in the crazy sky Then you held the sun inside Your face and when you smiled oh-ho World begins to shine like a golden mystery You are the most beautiful thing I've ever seen Angels hide inside your hair and play with fire and gasoline For honey bees wax your halo and mother gets some rest

Clockwork birds will take you to your island in the sea where you chop off all your hair and revolutionize your dreams. Ladies and gentlemen, Rikulus here along with us at the live Florida Roundup. Rikulus with a K. The Florida Roundup is produced by WLRN Public Media in Miami and WUSF in Tampa by Bridget O'Brien, Grace and Dr. and assistance from Denise Royle. WLRN's vice in Miami and WUSF in Tampa by Bridget O'Brien, Grace and Doctor and assistance from Denise Royal. WLRN's Vice President of Radio is Peter Merich. The program's technical director is MJ Smith. Engineering help each and every week from the one Doug Peterson and the way back.

Thank you Douglas for everything that you do. Ernesto Jay back with us at our studios in Miami. A big thanks to everybody here at WJCT, your Florida Public Radio station here in Northeast Florida. Terrific hospitality and a big thank you to each and every one of your supporters of WJCT. Financial support for the Florida Roundup on the road is provided in part by Florida Public Media whose mission is to be a trusted, dependable, and welcome part of the lives of all Floridians. Here we go, our next in-person live Florida Roundup, May 30th in Tampa. Come on over to the other side of the coast with us, all right? May 30th in Tampa. It's the Friday after Memorial

Day, so wear your white pants and join us in Tampa. Thanks for emailing, listening, and being here with us live at WJCT in Jacksonville. Have a terrific weekend, everybody.