The Florida Roundup - Medicaid in Florida; support for gender-affirming care; Florida’s wildlife corridors

Episode Date: June 23, 2023

Hundreds of thousands of Floridians have lost their Medicaid coverage; a federal court blocks Florida’s ban on Medicaid coverage for gender-affirming care; how Florida plans to protect its environmentally sensitive lands.

Welcome to the Florida Roundup. I'm Danny Rivero in Miami. Hundreds of thousands of Floridians have lost their Medicaid coverage since April. That's when a federal mandate that prohibited states from dropping anyone from Medicaid roles expired. This protection, which was established at the beginning of the coronavirus pandemic, also kept people continuously enrolled in the federal insurance program without having to reapply for it. As states begin checking everyone's eligibility for Medicaid for the first time in three years, Florida now leads the nation in disenrollments. WLRN's health reporter, Veronica Saragovia, has been following this closely, and she joins us now. And also joining us is Dan Chang for KFF Health News, and he covers Florida and the South for that outlet. Veronica, Dan, thanks for coming on.

Thank you for having us. Thanks, Danny. I'm happy to be here. Thank you both for joining us. We also want to hear from you, our listeners on this. Have you recently lost coverage? Did you receive a notification that you might be losing Medicaid coverage? Are you a healthcare worker? You can give us a call from anywhere in the state at 305-995-1800. And you can also tweet us at Florida Roundup. So, Veronica, let's start with you. This mass purge of people being removed from Medicaid rolls, it's happening nationwide. How is it happening here in Florida, which is now the leading state in people being disenrolled. That's right. Of the more than 1 million people across the country, Florida has by now dropped more than 300,000.

And though they had identified close to a million people who no longer qualified that they needed to disenroll, and they were going to wait, first have, say, the people who hadn't used their Medicaid in a year or people who simply didn't qualify, say, because they had aged out or because of their income, they were going to take them out. But then they just really grouped everybody, even people with disabilities and sick children. And they've all, so many people have been dropped and about 80% of them still qualify. The Department of Children and Families in Florida, which handles Medicaid eligibility, the plan was to send out letters.

If you received a letter with a yellow stripe, that meant that you needed to confirm that you were still eligible, submit paperwork. They say they texted people, emailed, called, but a lot of people say they didn't receive anything and then, or they'll try to log on and they get these generic messages and they just can't seem to communicate and get the department what they're supposed to do so it's been very frustrating and and a lot of people are being dropped yes and so they're being dropped and you know something i want to put my finger on is is because the you know, part of this is federal policy that was in effect for three years since the beginning of the COVID-19 pandemic, which banned states from removing

people from Medicaid rolls. So there is somewhat of a backlog, I would imagine, of people that would have been pushed off of Medicaid. somewhat of a backlog, I would imagine, of people that would have been pushed off of Medicaid. But can you help us understand how much of this surge in Florida is because of federal policy and that federal policy running out and how much of it is actually Florida policies? Well, that's a great question. I know like during the pandemic, it swelled from, I believe it was somewhere around 3 million to somewhere over 5 million people in Florida.

And it is, it takes up a lot of the state budget. And if people don't qualify, Florida has very strict qualification. It's very difficult. In fact, like you almost have to, you have to be extremely low income. You have to have either a child with a disability or be disabled or be a caretaker of a disabled person. If you're blind, if you are pregnant, you will qualify. But certainly having, you know, they kept people continuously enrolled for those three years. And perhaps, I don't know if that had something to do. I mean, I know all of the health policy analysts I speak to say that the Department of Children and Families really are trying to help, but they're understaffed and overworked,

and part of it is a bureaucratic problem. And I will say from my personal experience as a reporter, is a bureaucratic problem. And I will say from my personal experience as a reporter, they have been trying very much so to help with information, which is not always the case. It's a big lift. Sorry, I just wanna jump in there that it's probably the biggest undertaking that Florida's DCF,

which determines eligibility for Medicaid has undertaken in recent years. And it did grow from about three and a half million Floridians on Medicaid before the pandemic to over five million. I want to say maybe about 5.2 million over those three years. And initially, ACA had said that they had already predetermined. And ACA is the department that. Oh, I'm sorry, ACA is the agency. Right. Correct.

They're the agency for healthcare administration. They manage and administer the state's Medicaid program. They had estimated before this unwinding began that about 900,000 people had already been identified as no longer eligible. And I think part of the problem here is that a good number of the people, or a good share of the people who are being dropped are being dropped because they're not responding

to these letters or DCF's outreach to try to redetermine their eligibility. So they're still eligible, but they're not, they haven't responded in some way or another. I do wanna go to the phones. We have a call coming in. You can call us at 305-995-1800. We have Wes calling from Tampa.

Wes, thanks for calling the Florida Roundup. You're on. Are you there, Wes? We'll continue on here. Dan, just following up on what we were talking about here, how do Florida's rules for being eligible for Medicaid compare to other states? Where do we stack up? Well, I think we're close to the bottom because as Veronica mentioned, it's so restrictive in terms of the eligibility. Single adults without independent children are categorically exempt. They can't get it no matter how poor they are. And if you're a parent of a child, say you're a single parent with one child, of a child, say you're a single parent with one child, you can only qualify if you make up to about 35% of federal poverty level. And I'm sorry, I shouldn't get those numbers beforehand,

but it's extremely low. I want to say about $8,000 a year in order for the parent to qualify. The kids can qualify if their family earns up to about 250% of federal poverty. So it's more generous for kids as all state Medicaid programs are. It's for the adults, the low-income adults, who don't have any other form of coverage, that this is really, Florida's policies really impact people's ability to get covered. And Dan, Florida is one of 10 states that has not adopted a Medicaid expansion. And this, if Florida did expand it, it would make nearly all low-income adults eligible for coverage.

So on some level, this is a decision that's been made by politicians in Florida. And you've reported on how this gap in coverage has led to fraudulent behavior targeting unhoused people in particular. Can you tell us a little bit more about what you found in that reporting? Yeah. So as you mentioned, in the other 40 states plus the District of Columbia, low income people, including homeless can qualify for Medicaid. And so what happens in states like Florida that don't have Medicaid expansion, except for Wisconsin, and I can explain that later. But what happens is that they're, they're insured if you're low income, and many of the people who are homeless in Florida are being

approached by agents and brokers who are signing them up fraudulently, because they don don't they don't earn the income that you need to earn to qualify and and the reason that they're doing this is because there are lots of plans under the the American Rescue Plan Act and then later the Inflation Reduction Act the the the subsidies that the federal government provides to people who qualify based on their income have been much more generous. So there are a lot of zero premium plans available in Florida where you don't have to pay anything per month. But the trouble is that when you go to use it, there may be copayments or deductible other out-of-pocket costs that you

can't afford, especially if you're homeless. So what's happening here is that most of the companies who sell insurance on the Affordable Care Act exchange pay their agents or brokers or web brokers a commission of about $20 to $30, according to the state's insurance broker association, and it's per member per month. So what's happening here is that they're signing people up who are homeless for the zero premium plans. Oftentimes, these individuals don't even know that they've signed up. They're being offered cash to do it, small sums from what I understand of $5 to $10. And the people who are homeless are getting hurt. I think a lot of people might see this as, oh, it's not such a big deal. You're insuring uninsured people. The problem is that people who are homeless may qualify for other programs that are much more suitable for them because they don't have any out-of-pocket costs.

So, for instance, the Ryan White program for people with HIV, hospital charity care programs. But part of what you're describing is just the increase in federal funding coming down is making a lot more people eligible because there's no money down in a way. So some parties out there are taking advantage of this by, you know, by registering people and, you. And there's business models being built up around this. Look, I'm not sure about business models, but I do know that enrollment counselors and enrollment navigators and also the state's Department of Financial Services and the Center for Medicaid and Medicare and Medicaid Services, which is the federal regulator that oversees the marketplace, have all said that there is a large amount of, well, I guess you could say fraud going on. These are people who are being signed up or perhaps signing up themselves without providing accurate or correct information. And in some cases, they may not know it. So, you know, the enrollment counselors in Pinellas and Hillsborough County told me they're seeing the same thing. Doctors at Jackson Memorial in Miami told me that it's become a big problem. And it's gotten worse lately. There's been going on really for a very long time, even since the first days

of Marketplace in 2013 and 2014. It was a story out of North Carolina. Just to clarify, when I said business model, it's unscrupulous business model. Correct. I want to go to the phones now. That's 305-995-1800. You can call us. Stephanie calling from Palm Harbor. Thanks for calling. You're on.

Hi, good morning. I just wanted to say something about the insurance industry i um was a medicaid nurse for a very large insurance company for 10 years um when medicaid was going to be cut and like you said, they do recruit people into the plans. I do agree with that. I used to work on a floor with a bunch of them. And so, but the sad part of what's going on right now is the last job I had there, I did for four years, and I was an appeals nurse. And sometimes you would get the most heartbreaking, I mean, letters.

These people really have disabilities, and they're losing their Medicaid at the end of the month. They can't get the appliances, things done in their home that they need and it was my job to help them so I would have to relook at their case and recommend to the doctor right you know how I felt about it it's just very sad that a lot of people did lose their Medicaid now right thank you so much for the for the call Stephanie really echoing some of the reporting and things that we've heard. I do have one other call coming in now. Tanya calling from Inverness.

Tanya, thanks for calling. Hi. Please go ahead. Okay. So I'm one of those who received a text. I didn't receive mail that told me about my pending whether or not I was qualified. So I went online, and it said that my family qualified until December of 2023. So I don't know if that means I was originally qualified until December 2023 and that I'll be kicked off as soon as they start, you know, kicking people off. Or, you know, I'm disabled by Social Security standards and I've been receiving Medicaid, but I'm confused and worried.

Thank you for the call, Tanya. Veronica, I want to put that to you. Yeah, for Tanya, I have seen, so in my reporting, and I will put this out there because she's an amazing resource, Vanessa Abrito, you can find her on Facebook or on Twitter. She's a community activist who has been putting out a lot of messages that if they give you a date for when your Medicaid will expire, that you shouldn't read, say, go through the redetermination process until 30 days before. But the best thing, Tanya, that you could do is turn to someone like a navigator. Epilepsy Alliance Florida has them, or the Florida Health Justice Project. These are all organizations that are experts in this and who can really guide you, because

the best thing to do is to get advice from the experts. But I will say it's really important that if you've been dropped, that the previous caller, Stephanie, mentioned appeals, that you do appeal that within 90 days of finding out, because that's how you can get your expenses reimbursed if you don't appeal within those 90 days and you're on your own. And we know that families in Florida have a lot of medical expenses.

And yeah. Thank you. Thank you. And thank you again for calling so much, Tanya. Yeah, thank you. Veronica, I do want to just follow up. Is the federal government doing anything? Do they have any involvement in helping people regain Medicaid coverage or other forms of coverage as a lot of people are getting dropped? governors across the country urging for states to take a one month pause and figure out what's

going on. Because like we said, 80% of the people in Florida dropped were actually still qualified. So something's wrong, you know, so what what can be done to get these people? Is it a paperwork problem? Yes, let's say three out of four people, it's a paperwork problem. And so they are saying but and I reached out to the Department of Children and Families and they haven't responded whether Florida will consider any kind of pause the analysts tell me that's not likely but that's all they've done nothing with real teeth I will say that Oregon is a state that recently got so the federal government can approve changes that a state will make to its Medicaid program. And Oregon recently got approval

from the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services to keep children who qualify at birth for Medicaid because of their parents' income enrolled continuously for six years. So that's, for instance, something that states can take initiatives to do that maybe the federal government's not leading the way, but could be a model for other states to follow. Thank you. And I want to go to one more call from this segment quickly. Wesley calling from from St. Lucy Village. Thanks for calling your own. Are you on, Wesley? We'll move on. Dan, you were about to say something. In terms of the federal government's role, you know, what the Centers for Medicare

and Medicaid Services, the insurance regulator for the marketplace has done, but the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, by the way, also works in partnership with the states to run their Medicaid programs. So the federal government has provided about a dozen waivers that would allow states to keep people on longer. So for instance, they're saying that you can use SNAP eligibility, perhaps, to keep people on. That's the Supplemental Nutritional Assistance Program. Food stamps. Right, correct. And there are other waivers that states could use to make it easier and to keep people on their on their rolls longer there are only two states that have it applied to get any

of those there's no one of those this Florida the other ones Montana every other state in the nation use at least one of these waivers to help with their unwinding challenges I think that's worth noting right so I mean just just to reiterate there's a lot at play here but at least part of it is policies that are coming from the state of Florida. Right. I do want to thank our two guests very much for coming on. Veronica Saragovia covers health care and many other things for us here in WLRN News in Miami. Dan Chang covers Florida and the South for KFF Health

News. Dan, Veronica, thanks so much for coming on. Thank you so much, Danny. You're welcome. Thanks for having me. Still coming up on the Florida Roundup, more talk about Medicaid, if you believe it or not. Florida's ban on Medicaid coverage for gender-affirming care gets struck down in federal court. More on that ruling just ahead. Hurricanes, lightning, flooding, and tornadoes affect the entire state of Florida, and the team of meteorologists from the Florida Public Radio Emergency Network keep you informed around the clock.

All year long, we're committed to providing in-depth weather coverage, both over the radio and on the mobile app, Florida Storms. The Florida Public Radio Emergency Network is supported by this station and Citizens Property Insurance, online at citizensfla.com. An experienced diver says the five men who went missing in the Atlantic aboard a small submersible likely died quickly. They died in two nanoseconds, so they instantly had no idea what happened. That is the best news I've heard in four days.

God have mercy on their souls. That's coming up on Today Explained. Tonight at 6.30 on WGCT News 89.9. President Joe Biden is 80 years old and he'll soon ask the American people for four more years in office. For a lot of people, I think it's a bit unnerving to have an elderly person in that job. How both Republican and Democratic strategists view President Biden's age and how voters might assess his abilities. That's next time on Think. Tonight at 10 on WJCT News 89.9. Welcome back to the Florida Roundup. I'm Danny Rivero in Miami. This week, a federal judge blocked Florida's ban on Medicaid coverage for gender affirming care.

The ruling isn't a complete surprise out of left field. It comes just two weeks after that same U.S. district judge issued a preliminary injunction on Florida's law prohibiting such care for minors. But it is significant. Thousands of transgender people in the state are estimated to use Medicaid to fund their treatments. And there's a growing list of court rulings that have been struck down in similar bans or restrictions in other states like in Indiana and Arkansas, just very recently. For more on this ruling this week, we're joined by two reporters, Gary Fineout with Politico and Catherine Varn with Axios. Gary, Catherine, thanks for joining us here.

Thanks for having us. Yep. Thank you. And I want our audience to remember that we are taking your calls. You can call us at 305-995-1800. That's 305-995-1800. And you can always tweet us at Florida Roundup. Gary, before we get into talking about the opinion itself, can you give us a little bit of background on this case and where it came from? And, you know, do we know anything about the plaintiff? Well, there are four there for on the Medicaid case, there are four plaintiffs. There

are two transgender adults and two transgender minors who were basically involved in taking different types of treatment, either puberty blockers or cross-sex hormones. And, you know, the the sort of the genesis of this case started last year when basically the DeSantis administration began advocating for prohibitions on the treatment and everything like that. And what happened was the Medicaid rule went into effect. There was also the medical boards in the state also enacted rules dealing with applying to physicians. And so that all started rolling last year. And so the first lawsuit that was filed in connection with this was, in fact, on the Medicaid rule. And that is the first one that went to trial. And that's why we got the ruling. The other case that you cited, which has to do with the medical board rules and a subsequent law passed by the legislature, there's a little bit that isn't quite as far.

And in fact, the ruling in that case only applied to the three people who filed the lawsuit and they got a preliminary injunction. Well, whereas this ruling that came out of Medicaid is one that follows a full blown trial. this ruling that came out of Medicaid is one that follows a full blown trial. Right. And can you tell us, like, just what was in that opinion written by District Court Judge Robert Hinkle? What what what does the opinion actually say about its decision to block this? Well, what's well, what Judge Hinkle did is he basically took some of the facts and testimony that was heard in the trial on the Medicaid ban and used the same language where he talked about how that gender identity is real. And then he went over the testimony and evidence that was put in place by the state. And basically, the bottom line is that Judge Hinkle concluded that the rule in place of forming and dealing with Medicaid was discriminatory in nature, that it violated Equal Protection Clause,

and that it also violated Medicaid laws and the Affordable Care Act. And he put all those together and said this rule, which was also codified this spring by the legislature, that it is not valid and it should not go forward. And then now, So the question is, what will the state do? Will they appeal it? They haven't necessarily said that yet. They. So that's where we're at. Thank you for that. I want to bring Catherine Varn in with with Axios. Catherine, I mean, just one thing to note is that this decision this week in North Florida, it follows federal judges in Arkansas and Indiana that have struck down parts of similar laws in those states. Just to help give us kind of the overarching view and context here.

I mean, do these three rulings tell us anything about where all these laws stand? tell us anything about where all these laws stand? I mean, these laws have been absolutely a priority of Republican state governments over the last year or so. And just now we're getting rulings on them. Sure, yeah. I mean, I think it, you know, is showing that the courts don't, you know, don't have a high tolerance for these laws and rules. You know, it's important

to note that gender affirming health care for minors and adults is affirmed and supported by every major medical association in the country. And there's a lot of science to back it up, which is not, which Florida has contradicted and said, no, there isn't enough evidence to back up the value of this care. But, you know, it seems like the courts are, you know, taking a different stance and saying, no, there is science to support this care. The mainstream medical establishment supports this care. So these laws are discriminatory. So it doesn't seem to fare well for the Republican strategy

in this area. I mean, the state could certainly appeal. And like Gary said, the state hasn't said whether they're going to yet, but, and the 11th Circuit of Appeals in Atlanta is more conservative and has been known to reverse decisions by the Northern District Court in Florida. So it could be overturned if they appeal. I'm not sure about the makeup of appellate courts in other areas, but any of these other decisions can be appealed as well. But I mean, at least for now, it's not looking like the courts are going to back up these laws. And Catherine, can you help us just understand where do the rest of Florida's restrictions around this gender affirming care stand after this ruling?

Yeah, so Gary mentioned the temporary injunction that was issued regarding the restrictions for transgender minors seeking gender affirming care. And that injunction applies, I mean, it's kind of gotten different interpretations. According to the plaintiff's attorney, that injunction should apply to all minors who want to get gender affirming care. But according to the DeSantis administration, it applies only to the three minors who requested the injunction. So there's some question of how broadly or whether or not the state of Florida is going to enforce the child restrictions for other children who

try to seek gender affirming care who weren't party to that lawsuit. And then there are also adult restrictions in place as part of the same bill, Senate Bill 254, that codified the restrictions for trans minors. And basically, the adult restrictions involve a pretty bulky informed consent process that actually the Florida Board of Medicine is tasked with sort of, you know, figuring out the details for. And they actually have a meeting this afternoon where they have proposed a draft informed consent form for adults and for adults seeking gender affirming care. So we'll kind of know more about those exact requirements as that process goes forward. But what was laid out in the law was at least that to start hormones or, well, to start hormones mainly for adults, they wouldn't be on puberty

blockers, but to start hormones, you would have to see a physician in person so that, you know, gets rid of telehealth as an option, gets rid of, you know, being able to see a nurse practitioner or a physician's assistant. So those are definitely two requirements laid out in the law. And then the Florida Board of Medicine may, you know, have more after this rulemaking process for the informed consent forms. Thank you. And I want to give our number again for our listeners. It's 305-995-1800. You can give us a call here on the Florida Roundup. Gary, I want to go back to you. You mentioned that there has been no official appeal made of this decision. But I am wondering, have there been any rhetorical responses from

the governor or other lawmakers in Florida in response to this to this ruling? I haven't seen anything in regards to the Medicaid ruling, which only came out about a day and a half ago. I mean, yes, there was a strong response to the initial the preliminary injunction that was filed the desantis administration and other people who supported the ban were quite vocally upset and called Judge Hinkle an activist judge and and so I believe would it would it would make perfect sense that they plan to appeal now I would say the important thing and I don't want to get too far into the weeds, is the decision on the minor ban, as noted, was a preliminary injunction. It's before the case has actually even kind of gotten underway. So I think the decision is, there's a whole legal decision as to whether or not you want to press and challenge the preliminary injunction right

away, or if you want to go ahead with a regular court case. So that all has to be worked out. And what I would tell you is the thing about the preliminary injunction, to the point that Catherine was making, is that if you read the ruling, it does specifically say the three plaintiffs. Right. It only applies to those three three plaintiffs. I think the issue is that it only applies to those three minor plaintiffs. Right. But to Catherine's point, if you are someone else and you know that that ruling is out there and you are denied treatment, then you could go into court and ask for the same standing that the other people got. And in other lawsuits of this sort, I want to use one in particular, the lawsuit over cruises, the Santa's administration had and all of that kind

of stuff. They have taken decisions where they've said, well, that only applied to Norwegian, but we're going to apply it to everybody until it's all litigated. So I think that's the issue. The issue is, are you going to go ahead and just say, well, as instead of getting other lawsuits all jamming up the system, do we just go it because these policies have really been a rallying point for the Republican Party over the last year or so. Does getting shot down in court? I mean, do you foresee that having any impact on this politically? No, no, not at all. I mean, I think I think there I mean, Governor DeSantis talks about these policies frequently at at at various stops. He did on his reelection campaign and he is doing it on his presidential campaign. So I would think that at this point in time, that from a political standpoint, they are not planning to back down. You're listening to the Florida Roundup from Florida Public Radio.

Catherine, I want to bring you back into this. Where, like, what are you watching? Because there's so much going on here with access to transgender care. You know, besides these lawsuits that are winding their way through the courts, are you watching any other part of this unfold in the real world impact, say? Yeah, definitely. I'll be keeping an eye on the Florida Board of Medicine meeting today. To Gary's point, you know, that, you know, will this have an impact, you know, on the the Florida Board of Medicine meeting today. To Gary's point, you know, that that, you know, will this have an impact, you know, on the political landscape? You know, probably not. You know, it doesn't the based on what the Florida Board of Medicine has proposed for

the informed consent process for adults. They, you know, put some stuff in here like, you know, you have to go through a psychiatric evaluation and a suicide risk assessment every three months. to undergo that treatment and trans people and their allies have pointed out that these are really, really strict requirements and put up a lot of barriers to care. Representative Anne Askamani, a Democrat from Orlando, sent a letter to the board, you know, critiquing what they what they've put out. So it definitely seems like, you know, they're continuing to put some pretty tough restrictions by them. I mean, the state the state is continuing to put pretty tough restrictions around care. So I'll be keeping an eye on that process. I've also heard kind of anecdotally of people, you know, adults who have prescriptions for hormones, but have gone to pharmacies and not been able to get their prescriptions filled. The main example I saw got worked out through the pharmacy company. So it turned out fine, but I'm certainly keeping an

eye on that. Like if trans adults are struggling to get their prescriptions filled or struggling to get care period. So definitely keeping an eye on the adult provisions for sure. I think those have gotten a lot less attention than the child, the transgender minors restrictions. And they're both super important. And I'm keeping an eye on both. But we're still sort of seeing how a lot of the adult restrictions are going to play out. They've only been in effect for, gosh. Yeah, not too long. see this week um an executive of gofundme actually came public saying we're seeing a ton of gofundme

pages with transgender people trying to fundraise to get out of florida so that's something i've been watching um i i i do want to go to the phones it's 305-995-1800 we have stephanie calling from jacksonville stephanie thanks for calling the Florida Roundup. You're on. Hi, sure. Thank you for taking my call. You know, as I think about just any state budget, certainly there's a finite amount of money that could be spent on important things and social programs. And of course, the three largest line items are always prisons, education, and Medicaid. And there is a finite amount of money.

And I think about the population and the percent of the population that this is representing. Like, I don't even know if we know what percent of the state of Florida are we talking about with respect to gender affirming and then prioritizing that and taxpayer dollars. And I think about women and those who are menopausal and who cannot get coverage for hormone replacement therapy. And I would venture to say, and I don't know factually, but that population is much larger than those seeking gender-affirming coverage and benefits through the Medicaid program. And so it just concerns me that we're rallying behind a very small group or population potentially of the state relative to other populations. Thank you. Thank you for your call, Stephanie.

And transgender individuals are about 1%. It is relatively small, but American Medical Association, other groups do take the position that those groups are deserving of healthcare and they consider this healthcare. We do have to leave the conversation there now. I want to say thanks

to our guests, Gary Fineout with Politico and Catherine Varn with Axios. Thank you both so much for calling. And just ahead on the Florida Roundup, how far is Florida going to protect its environmentally sensitive lands? mentally sensitive lands. An AI chat bot for lawyers that can read and analyze hundreds of documents in minutes that should cut down on billable hours, right? You know, when we got computerized, everybody said it would reduce bills. Didn't work. And I'm pretty sure this one isn't going to work either. I'm Kai Risdell. What legal AI will and won't change about the business of law?

That's next time on Marketplace. Tonight at 6, here on WJCT News 89.9. Chemistry is Kelly Clarkson's first album since her divorce, and she hopes it might help others experiencing heartbreak. It's like, okay, I went through something that maybe other people, maybe this will make them feel less alone, you know, when they're crying on their floor and their world is a dumpster fire, you know. I'm Juana Summers, my candid conversation with Kelly Clarkson on All Things Considered from NPR News. Starting at four on WJCT News 89.9. On the next Fresh Air, we remember former military analyst and activist Daniel Ellsberg, who died last week at the age of 92.

He made history in 1971 by leaking the secret study of the Vietnam War, known as the Pentagon Papers. And he was still leaking classified material and challenging government secrecy at the age of 90. Join us. Today at 1 on WJCT News 89.9. Welcome back to the Florida Roundup. I'm Danny Rivero in Miami. Governor Ron DeSantis has boasted record environmental spending in the recently signed state budget for the upcoming fiscal year. And that budget includes $850 million for wildlife corridors in the state and $100 million in recurring funding for the Florida Forever Land Protection Program. But the governor also vetoed $100 million from another conservation program. But the governor also vetoed $100 million from another conservation program, one aimed at keeping swaths of rural lands from being developed. From WUSF News in Tampa,

Steve Newborn joins us now to discuss these wildlife corridors in Florida. Steve, thanks for coming on. Are you there, Steve? We do want to hear from you on this on this show we have the the number it's 305-995-1800 that's 305-995-1800 you can also tweet us at florida roundup can you hear me now danny i can hear you now are here. Thanks for coming on, Steve. So let's get into it. So earlier this year, Governor Ron DeSantis and the Florida cabinet voted to spend around $100 million to help protect the Florida Wildlife Corridor. And that's on top of the hundreds of millions of dollars for other wildlife corridor projects. Can you tell us a little bit more about how this money will be spent and why it's so important? So the lion's share of this money, the $800 million, is going to be used to purchase areas between the Osceola and Ocala National Forests.

This is an area in North Florida that's part of the wildlife corridor. But the annual amount they agreed to, like you said, was $100 million. This goes into what's called the Land Acquisition Trust Fund. This is the map, so to speak, of what lands are being targeted for preservation. I just want to mention here that there were bills this year to spend up to $300 billion for the program, but those bills never made it out of committee in Tallahassee. So there are basically two ways state lands can be preserved. It can be bought outright like a state park or forest, or it can be doled out for what are called conservation easements. These are aimed at keeping ranches and farms from future development. It's

called the Rural and Family Lands Protection Program. And that basically allows these ranchers and farmers to continue ranching and farming with restrictions that keep the land from future development. And Steve, just for the listener's sake, because not everyone has had a chance to look at or visit the Florida Wildlife Corridor. Can you paint a picture or a map for us of exactly the scale and the place that this Florida Wildlife Corridor is? Like, what are the general boundaries of it? Because it's really massive. It is massive.

So, you know, basically the corridor is two paths through the state. It starts in the south at the Everglades and kind of goes northward through Florida Panther Country in southwest Florida and up the Lake Wells Ridge, which is the sandy spine in the middle of the state. Now, from there, it splits into two paths. In the east, it skirts around Orlando's metro area, kind of hugging the Atlantic coast and goes north through the Ocala and Osceola National Forest, which I just mentioned, all the way up to the Georgia border. Now, the other path starts at that Lake Wells Ridge and kind of hangs to the left. It goes north through the Green Swamp, which is between Tampa and Orlando, and goes up

through the Nature Coast along the Gulf Coast. And it continues northwest and through forest and military reservations throughout the length of the panhandle all the way up to the Alabama border. So it's continuous two paths. And a main reason for this corridor being proposed and now it's being constructed, well constructed is maybe not the right word, but it's being built, was because of the shrinking habitat for the Florida panther, especially because cars are the number one cause of death for that endangered species. So the idea has long been creating corridors where panthers can can roam um has the reasoning expanded beyond

only protecting panthers at this point well the whole impetus for the corridor started with a bear um guy by the name of joe guthrie he's a bear biologist he was he was on one of the first florida wildlife corridor expedition treks. And when he worked at Archbold, this is a nature preserve in central Florida, he tracked a bear, and it kept going north but kept bumping up against I-4 and kept coming back and trying to get across it. And it finally just turned around and went back home trying to find a mate. So the idea for this was to, you know, create a pathway so this wouldn't happen, maybe underpasses under I-4, but basically to connect these shrinking

areas of natural preserved land. And it's not just good for panthers and bears, it's for every animal out there. You know, the state basically adds a thousand people every day. You know, they've got to live somewhere. And all these new developments being built are bumping up against places where wildlife have called their home forever. Right. So and they're getting kicked out of their home. So the idea is to have a pathway for them to migrate and to continue breeding without becoming inbred. Right. And I mean, this this really has been become a bipartisan across the board thing. Like there's not really anyone that is opposed to this, is there? You know, we're the biggest tourist attraction in the country, and a lot of tourists visit the state where it's natural beauty.

I mean, they go deep-sea fishing, they go camping. You know, even birding is a multimillion-dollar industry here. And, you know, we've got to keep these people coming here. Plus, the people who already live here want a place to unwind from it all. So this is kind of a way of preserving the goose that laid the golden egg, if I could use a bad pun. Right. You're listening to the Florida Roundup from Florida Public Radio. So, Steve, I do want to ask Florida's commissioner of agriculture, Wilton Simpson, who is a Republican, said that when Governor DeSantis vetoed $100 million from another conservation program just last week, that, quote, agriculture was harmed today and so was the state of Florida. Can you

tell us a little bit about that conversation, that conversion, I'm sorry, conservation program and how it fits into this overall picture of wildlife corridors? Like, why is that so important? Yeah, this is one of the biggest deals. What you're referring to is the Rural and Family Lands Protection Program, which took the hit from the governor's veto there. And now Wilton Simpson, who was Senate president last year, he raises chickens in Pasco County. This is what he does for a living. So this is something that's near and dear to him. So what happened was this money, basically the governor said, we already have $300 million left over from last year in the current budget for all this land acquisition and conservation. So it'll last into next fiscal year. And this is probably one of the biggest items in land preservation.

It isn't purchasing land. It's connecting with the ranchers and the farmers who already live there, and their lands are preserved for the most part as it is, and they want to have a way to keep the land in working condition so it doesn't get developed. So it basically pays them to keep the land in working conditions so it doesn't get developed. So it basically pays them to keep doing what you're doing. Just don't sell it for development. And I do want to mention that this conservation program was a priority of Senate President

Kathleen Pasadena. She talked to us here on the Florida Roundup about it in March. We are overdeveloping. We are losing our winter vegetables. Florida used to be the winter vegetable capital of the world, particularly for the eastern seaboard. And as the farmers are cashing out and selling their land to developers because they couldn't afford to farm or there was reasons not to, we're basically concreting from the East Coast to the West Coast. reasons not to, we're basically concreting from the East Coast to the West Coast. So, Steve, I mean, on the one hand, we're talking there is a lot of conservation work going on.

Other states are looking at what's happening in Florida as a model in a way. But on the other hand, Governor DeSantis has vetoed, you know, a priority of the Agriculture Commissioner, of the Senate President. I mean, what are the politics of this aspect? Well, unfortunately, politics kind of gets in the way of everything. I think with the Rural and Family Lands Program, it was kind of a tug-of-war between Wilton Simpson, when he was the Senate President, and the governor. They have not been the best of buddies and the best of terms. So a lot of people believe this was a politically motivated veto.

But there is a lot of good in looking like a green candidate, right? So many politicians who you wouldn't think would be on the side of conservationists have joined the green bad wagon. I think it looks good. You know, most of the people agree with this. They voted in 2014 to set aside a third of all the doc stamps, documentary stamps that are levied on real estate transactions for these programs. The politicians haven't always followed that through, but it shows you there is a wide breadth of support for this in the population out here. And Steve, you know, last question here. You've actually made the journey along the Florida Wildlife Corridor. For someone listening who might not have had the chance

to make that kind of trek, can you paint a picture of what you saw along the way? Like, what's at stake with these conservation efforts? Yeah, well, and, you know, in many ways, these were the trips of a lifetime for me. I made two trips, stopping and occasionally with the three members of the Wildlife Corridor Expedition. Now, the first one was way back in 2012 when no one really knew about the wildlife corridor and what it all meant. It was kind of a concept for conservationists. So they started at Flamingo at the tip of the Everglades in Florida Bay and kayaked through the sawgrass marshes

of the Everglades, hiked and biked through the Lake Wells Ridge north of there, that high sandy spine in the middle of the state, and then kind of skirted around Orlando, went through the National Forest, the Ocala and Osceola National Forest, and ended up at the Okefenokee Swamp in southern Georgia, places that many people haven't been to. I'm sorry. I should have asked that question much earlier. We do got to wrap up. I encourage everyone to read and see the pictures that Steve Newborn at WSF has done on that.

Steve, thank you so much for coming on and talking with us. My pleasure. I appreciate it. And that'll do it for our program here on the Florida Roundup today. The Florida Roundup is produced by WJCT Public Media in Jacksonville and WLRN Public Media in Miami. Heather Schatz and Bridget O'Brien are the producers. WLRN's Vice President of Radio and our Technical Director is Peter Mayers. Engineering help from Doug Peterson, Charles Michaels, and Isabella Da Silva. Richard Ives answers the phones. Our theme music is provided by Miami jazz guitarist Aaron Libos

at AaronLibos.com. I'm Danny Rivero. Thanks for listening. We'll catch you next week.