The Florida Roundup - Street scenes during Trump’s arraignment; push for abortion access; sea turtle threats

Episode Date: June 16, 2023

Hundreds gathered outside the Miami courthouse during Donald Trump’s arraignment; Florida’s crisis pregnancy centers are pushing to get abortion access on the ballot; microplastics and warming sands threaten sea turtles.

Welcome to the Florida Roundup. I'm Danny Rivero in Miami. And before we begin today's program, I have some news to share about the Florida Roundup. After five years behind the Florida Roundup, Mike, and 14 years as host of First Coast Connect in Jacksonville, my co-host Melissa Ross is stepping down from WJCT Public Media in Jacksonville and from co-host Melissa Ross is stepping down from WJCT Public Media in Jacksonville and from co-hosting this program. She's moving on to take a position with the city of Jacksonville. As a founding co-host of this program, she's done countless interviews with newsmakers around the state and beyond. So with a deep appreciation for all Melissa has done for this program and for Florida Public Media, the entire Florida Roundup team wishes Melissa the best in this new chapter. The Florida Roundup will continue. And from the WLRN studios in Miami, I'll be taking your calls with our panel of journalists and other guests this hour.

and other guests this hour. First up this week, the biggest news story in the country played out in downtown Miami on Tuesday, as former President Trump was arraigned in federal court. He pleaded not guilty to over 30 federal criminal charges, alleging that he mishandled confidential documents that he had stashed in the bathroom and other areas of Mar-a-Lago and Palm Beach. that he had stashed in the bathroom and other areas of Mar-a-Lago and Palm Beach. That's at least what happened inside the courtroom. Outside the courtroom, another scene was playing out, as battle lines were drawn in the battle between President Trump and Florida Governor DeSantis. I was out there on that hectic, record heat, sweaty, drippy day. And the scene was really chaotic. Also out there was our guest who joins me now. Isadora Rangel is an editorial board member and opinion writer for the Miami Herald. Isadora, welcome to the Florida Roundup. Hey, Danny, thanks for having me.

And I want to tell all our listeners that you can call us for this conversation. You can reach us at 305-995-1800. That's 305-995-1800. And you can also tweet us at Florida Roundup. So Isadora, just to paint the picture for us, in a few words, how would you describe the scene outside that courtroom on Tuesday? Yeah, well, saying it was hot feels like an understatement now after hours standing in the sun. But I'll tell you, I know I covered a couple of Trump rallies back in 2016 when I was a

reporter, and the atmosphere felt pretty much the same outside the courtroom in Miami. You had people blasting the Son Cuentaamera by Celia Cruz on speakers. You had people chanting, people with flags, people with signs. You had people standing on benches, giving speeches about communism and saying in Spanish things like down with Joe Biden's dictatorship. There was a woman who was screaming and talking about how the Democratic Party is now like the Sandinistas in Nicaragua. You had pretty much a very energetic crowd. Obviously, it peaked at 1500 people, according to the Herald's reporting, which is nothing like a true rally.

But I say the energy was the same and it really shows the amount of support that Donald Trump gets from his most ardent supporters, I think. really took me aback out there was the level of vitriol and anger that supporters of President Trump were expressing, not just towards President Biden and what they view as the political witch hunt that these charges are, in their opinion, but also the anger that they were expressing towards supporters of Governor Ron DeSantis. Let's take a quick listen to some of what I heard. DeSantis said on tape here, OK, issue aggressive pardons starting day one. That's what he said. Why didn't Trump give pardons to the J6ers? He threw them under the bus. Trump supporters are always going to support Trump, right or wrong. We got Trump's back. Not everybody's perfect, right? Ron DeSantis was a great governor,

but you're a great governor. You know what I'm saying? You're not ready for this yet. Trump didn't come in as a governor, a senator, congressman. Trump went to the top. And a lot of the people out there were angry that Ron DeSantis was not present. There was chants at various points of shame on Ron for not being there. Where is Ron? I mean, Isadora, what do you make of how the politics of this federal indictment, how they're playing out, at least among conservatives here in Florida? NPR reported about polling that shows Trump remains really strong with GOP voters. With independent voters, he's beginning to look more and more toxic, but that doesn't matter in a primary, right? You know, it's interesting you mentioned Ron DeSantis because I heard a slightly different story from a couple of people I spoke to. And they said, listen, we like Ron DeSantis. We like what he has done with education. We like his focus on schools and drag queens and woke.

But we think he should be he should sit this one out and let Trump run this time around. It's not that they don't like Ron DeSantis. It's just a thing that they should wait. He should be waiting for his turn and let Trump be the guide for the party. I thought that was very interesting. But what I think this shows is sort of the difficult task that Ron DeSantis has in this primary, right? His coalition is going to be a challenge to build because he needs to peel off some voters from Donald Trump. And he needs to appeal to those more traditional Republicansans like you think of like reagan reagan-esque republicans who might

not be uh so fond of donald trump but it seems that ron the census is going to struggle with that i think this indictment and someone as someone told me on tuesday and i'm i'm almost quoting him he said uh this would only make my support for Donald Trump even stronger. And I think that's very telling. And I think Ron DeSantis is obviously paying attention to this, which is the reason why he has framed this indictment as a conspiracy and as a weaponization of federal law enforcement. of federal law enforcement. And, you know, to speak to your point, do you think at some point in trying to peel away some of these voters

that Governor DeSantis will use these charges as a way to politically attack President Trump? Or is he kind of stuck in this corner where he has to defend Trump and not attack him on it, even though those charges are clearly, as polling shows, a liability for Trump in a general election? Yeah, I would say that I can I will bet that he's probably secretly hoping that these charges become a liability for Trump. Do I think he's going to

publicly denounce Trump? No, because this, you know, and if you look at how Ron DeSantis has attacked Trump, it's a very interesting thing that he's doing. He's attacking Trump from the right. He's not attacking Trump for his lack of electability. And maybe that will change. But so far, what we have seen is trump is going after uh the sentence is going after trump on things like the criminal justice reform bill that the trump signed when he was in office he's going after him for the covert response remember trump was in office when the vaccines were being developed so he's trying to present himself as being more to the right than trump i don't know if that's going to work or not, but I think that's very interesting.

But it shows that right now, I think dissent around dissent is not going to denounce Trump or even give any credence to the indictment, because I think this is also bigger than Donald Trump. The rhetoric that you hear so much in Republican circles is that is the deep state, is that there is this conspiracy, that everything is biased. There is a lack of trust in the institutions of this country, including the media, but also the federal government. And being that Republican who says, well, maybe the DOJ is right. I don't see that working for Ron DeSantis, at least not at this point, but things can change at any point. I don't see that working for Ron DeSantis, at least not at this point, but things can change at any point. Right. And some DeSantis supporters I talked to out there, to your point, they were criticizing Trump from the right, saying, you know, Trump handed the country over to Anthony Fauci, gave him some kind of award.

This is not something that DeSantis would have done attacking him on that front. I do want to go to the phones. You can call us at 305-995-1800. And first on the line, we have Dawn calling from Ocala. Dawn, thanks for calling. Yes. You're on. Please go ahead. Yeah, good afternoon. I was just saying that what are we practicing here when we show citizens

two sides two different sides i've worked in law enforcement and they know a lady she committed a crime and she was arraigned two weeks ago and she was mugshot in a prison clothes and fingerprinted. And then when we doing this, we're saying some people is above the law and it's not done the way the standards are set up and we say the system works. You've got to work across the board for everyone. So I think what I hear, thank you for the call, Don. I think from what I'm understanding is her take is that

there is a double standard going on where President Trump is being treated differently than other people in the sense that there was not a mugshot. There was not handcuffs that we saw and whatnot.

Thank you for the call, Don. We have another call. We have George calling from Ybor City in Tampa. George, thanks for calling your own. I just want to say, you know, the people that are supporting Ron DeSantis, I mean, complaining about Ron DeSantis, I don't think there's enough emphasis on the difference between Trump and all the other candidates. It's completely different. Trump is a globalist. He would be happy to go live in his mansion in Scotland.

He talks about revenge and retribution. Ron DeSantis or any of the others, they don't talk like that. They're not out to gut the country. I just think there's not enough emphasis on how important it is. We can survive a Ron DeSantis. We cannot survive another term with Trump. He will cause decades of damage. And I just think that I'm not hearing people understanding that, you know. Ron DeSantis is a choir boy compared to Trump.

We can survive if anybody is in besides Trump. I'm just wondering if you would agree with that assessment. Thank you for the call, George. Not quite for me to say. Isadora, I do want to toss that to you. Do you have anything to follow up from George's call? Yeah, that is a conversation that the Herald editorial board has had, you know, as the opinion arm of the Miami Herald.

And, you know, I think that's up for debate. I think we could have a pretty long debate on that. But what I will say is this, Ron DeSantis has been extremely effective in putting into policy the things that he talks about in speeches. Donald Trump is almost like he's moving from topic to topic. Ron DeSantis is like we say he focuses on an issue

and he goes for it and he puts that into law. You see though all of his woke wars in the state of Florida. He has managed to put that into law, things regarding books, things regarding, there was the drag queen issue that just passed this legislative session. I think when you're talking about who is more effective, definitely Ron DeSantis. Obviously, working with the Congress is much different than working with the state legislature that's pretty much friendly to the governor. However, I think that if you want to frame this in terms of who can do more, perhaps, I know Ron DeSantis is more capable of doing things than Trump. And he would have eight years in office if he's reelected and reelected. Trump would only be able to serve for four.

And another Florida politician put his hat in the ring for the Republican nomination for president this week. And I'm talking about Miami Mayor Francis Suarez. nomination for president this week. And I'm talking about Miami Mayor Francis Suarez. How does Mayor Suarez fit into the whole picture of Floridians running for president this cycle? Wow. And, you know, I think a lot of people are a little surprised that he's running. You know, I think we have three Floridians, but I think Mayor Suarez is so different from Ron DeSantis and Donald Trump. I mean, if you have been following his career in the city of Miami, he's been a moderate. You know, he talked about, for example,

reducing carbon emissions in the city of Miami to a net zero by a certain date. That's not something you hear from Republicans. And as mayor, he ran in a nonpartisan race. So I think he's going to have to shift to the right. And he has been doing that in some of the ads that some of the groups affiliated with him have put out. Like he's started talking about, quote, the radical left. But I think he has a pretty good challenge ahead of him proving that he is a true conservative. And that's something that I

think Ron DeSantis and Donald Trump are not going to have to struggle with. They have their own issues. But I think Francis Suarez, I think, hasn't been your typical Republican up to this point. Right. He's somewhat running for the center lane, someone that can pull some support from Democrats even, which I think it's an open question if there's an appetite for that in the Republican primary. I actually talked to Mayor Suarez there at the courthouse on Tuesday and I don't know how to put this. We'll hear it in a second. But I want to play a clip now of some Trump supporters and how they responded to Mayor Suarez's presence there.

Go back to the f***ing Europa. We're not voting for you. You got some nerve to come here, you f***ing a**hole. I know, I know. This is my country, f***! Get the f*** out of here like that! Trump 2024! So I don't know if we could hear all of that, and there's more tape,

but that was supporters of President Trump yelling at the Republican Cuban-American Mayor Suarez to go back to Cuba. And in case I have to clarify here, Suarez was born in Miami, in the U.S. I mean, Isadora, what do you make of this level of discourse in the campaign? I was pretty shocked to hear that, actually. Yeah, I actually experienced something similar when I saw Mayor Suarez. And, you know, I'll tell you that hours after the Herald wrote a story about Suarez filing to run for president, I got an email from Trump's campaign that says that in the subject line was what conservatives need to know about Francis Suarez. And it was a list of things

that according to Trump's scam makes him not a true conservative. The very first item on the list was the fact that Suarez said he didn't vote for Donald Trump in 2016 or 2020. And apparently that remains sort of a litmus test. You know, you see all these other candidates where they attack Donald Trump, but at the same time, they have to support him. It's sort of this tapped in scene. We see that with Ron DeSantis. But I think that is a level of discourse that I saw on Tuesday. People with flags that had the F word on them. I mean, would we see this even 10 years ago? Probably not. Would we see this even 10 years ago? Probably not.

Even the Brandon thing that gets used against Joe Biden. I think the level of discourse we have seen that it has really, I think, gone downhill. And I think anybody entering this race needs to be ready for that. You can call us at 305-995-1800. We have Reid calling from Havana, Florida, on the Georgia border. Reed, thanks for calling. You're on. Thanks. I was just curious as to what your panel of journalists might have sensed was the result of Trump's short visit to Versailles Cafe when he announced food for everyone and then 10 minutes later walked out the door without paying a dime. Thanks for the call, Reed. Issa, anything to add about that?

Well, you know, Versailles is a place where every politician goes to when they're in South Florida, right? And as for him pain i mean we that's donald trump right he says things off the cuff does it he might follow up on them or not uh he was there for maybe i think 10 minutes um i think any expectation that he would pay for their for their meal i i don't i don't know if people really took him that seriously or not but i'll say like this moment, this moment in Miami on Tuesday for him, it was it was almost like he used this to campaign. It's and and, you know, sometimes you have to, you know, kind of zoom out a little bit and understand this is a former president being

indicted. And it's almost like he's here to campaign, you know, out even after the indictment was announced, one of our local congressmen, Carlos Jimenez, tweeted that he went golfing with Trump. So we don't see sort of the level of seriousness sometimes related to this indictment. You know, he was here and it was like a party atmosphere, except when he was in court where he didn't appear to be that happy that this was going on. except when he was in court where he didn't appear to be that happy that this was going on. But Trump will use these moments and he's very clever at using public opinion in his favor. Right. That is where we are right now in the in the political campaign, at least for the Republican nomination. As as NPR was just reporting, support for former President Trump seems to be going up,

even with this indictment hanging on there. I want to thank our guest for this segment, Isadora Rangel. She is an editorial board member and an opinion writer for the Miami Herald. Isadora, thanks for coming on. Thank you so much. Thank you. Welcome back to the Florida Roundup. I'm Danny Rivero in Miami. Governor Ron DeSantis signed a bill into law in April that prohibits most abortions after six weeks of pregnancy. That bill will go into effect if and when the Florida Supreme Court, currently dominated by conservative appointees, upholds the legality of a 15-week abortion ban the legislature enacted last year. And that decision is expected sometime this summer. So we have our eyes out for that. The six-week ban has garnered

a lot of attention and has spurred a movement to put abortion rights on the 2024 ballot. There's currently a petition drive to put that issue of an abortion access in front of Florida voters in November of next year. But another part of the April law hasn't gotten much attention. year. But another part of the April law hasn't gotten much attention. That's the part that includes a $25 million allocation of state funds towards crisis pregnancy centers. These centers, commonly known as CPCs, are typically religiously affiliated, and they counsel clients against having an abortion as part of their free but limited services. Unlike abortion clinics, abortion is not offered as an option with a crisis pregnancy center. Generally, CPCs are not licensed as medical facilities. For more on how these centers operate, we're joined by reporter Laura

Morel. She covers reproductive health for Reveal and has spent the last year looking closely at crisis pregnancy centers in the state and across the country. Laura, thanks for coming on. Thanks so much for having me. And also joining us to talk about the statewide effort to reverse abortion restrictions is Monet Holder. She's a senior director of advocacy and programs for Florida Rising, one of the organizations behind this movement. Monet, thanks for coming on. Thank you for having me. And we also want to hear from you during this conversation. Should taxpayer money go towards anti-abortion centers? Do you support an amendment to protect access to abortion in Florida. You can give us a call anywhere in the state at 305-995-1800

or send us a tweet at Florida Roundup. So, Laura, let's start with you. Can you help give us a better sense of what crisis pregnancy centers or CPCs are? Like, what are they? What do they do for people that don't know? Yeah, so the first pregnancy centers were founded in the late 1960s. So they've been around for the last several decades. And these are centers that are run, as you said, by religious nonprofits or organizations. And their main mission is to dissuade pregnant women, pregnant

people from ending their pregnancies, instead pushing them toward parenting or adoption. And they attract clients by offering things like free pregnancy tests and baby supplies, and they often open near abortion clinics in order to intercept patients who might already have an abortion appointment. And in the last few decades, more of these centers have decided to become medicalized and they offer things like free ultrasounds or STI testing. But my reporting has shown that even though the pregnancy center industry has moved more toward this medical space, regulation hasn't kept up with their medical practices. And for Reveal, you reported a story of a woman in Jacksonville who went to what she

thought was an abortion clinic where she had an appointment, but it was actually one of these crisis pregnancy centers that opened its doors directly next door to that actual clinic. Can you tell us a little bit about that and what it tells us about how these centers operate? Yeah. So last year, I spoke to a woman who said that she was deceived by a center in Jacksonville. This happened in the spring of 2018. And basically, she made an appointment to get an abortion pill at a clinic called Florida Women's Center. And right across the road was a CPC with the name Women's Help Center, which can cause confusion because the names are very similar. The logos were very similar. So this woman got confused that maybe the buildings belong to the same clinic. And so she

goes to the cpc she goes in she tells the women she's there for her abortion appointment they tell her she's in the right place so she fills out medical paperwork and when it's finally time for what she thinks is her appointment one of the women tells her that she can't have the abortion that day and offers to give her an ultrasound and at at this point, my source becomes very suspicious. And she asks again, you know, if she's in the right place. And ultimately, they tell her, no, you know, we're not the abortion clinic. And this is a very common tactic for many pregnancy centers just to sort of set up shop near an abortion clinic,

because it's a way for them to attract patients who might already have a medical appointment. And that's exactly what happened to this woman. And last session, just a few months ago, Florida lawmakers approved increased taxpayer funding for these CPCs from $5 million to $25 million. What does that tell us about where the state of Florida is? Right. So over the years, I think it's been close to 20 years, the state of Florida has funded crisis pregnancy centers. In the last few years, they were receiving about $4.5 million. And now during this upcoming fiscal year, we're going to see them getting $25 million. And what that says is that these centers are going to have more influence.

Right now, there's about 150 of them across the state of Florida. One of the main reasons that Republican lawmakers said this increase was necessary was because these centers are now also going to be providing more parenting support, things like parenting classes or, you know, more supplies for babies and for children. So it's definitely going to bolster the power and the influence of these centers across the state. I want to bring Monet Holder on. Monet, you have been spearheading an effort to get abortion rights on the ballot in 2024. Can you tell us a little bit about how that idea came about and where it's at right now? Sure. So as you mentioned, I'm the Senior Director of Advocacy and Programs at Florida Rising, and I also serve as the Chairwoman of Floridians Protecting Freedom.

And FPF, as we call it, is a statewide campaign to amend Florida's Constitution and protect Floridians' ability to make personal medical decisions without government interference. Of course, pulling this coalition together and launching this ballot initiative was a direct response to not only the initial 15-week abortion ban, but the six-week abortion ban that was passed in the 2023 legislative session. And how has the signature gathering effort gone so far since this effort was launched last month? So I'll start by saying, you know, the governing body of FPF consists of organizations like Florida Rising, Planned Parenthood, ACLU of Florida, and Women's Voices

of Southwest Florida. But we have support from over 200 organizations throughout the state. And we've also done a great deal of, you know, polling and had conversations with folks and Floridians across who are in support of having abortion access. Once we kicked off on May 8th, actually, not only have we gotten a lot of inquiries from folks on how to get involved, but we launched both volunteer petition collection as well as paid petition collection two weeks ago. And the numbers are overwhelming. To date, we have close to 220,000 petitions. 60,000 of those are volunteer efforts. So that just, you know, reaffirms the support that we have on the ground and from community in the field around this issue. And 160,000 roughly are through paid petition gathering efforts. But of course, it all depends on folks' willingness and the will of the people to see this on a ballot in 2024. And it's looking really good.

Wow. Yeah, that is a lot. Just to clarify, that's over 200,000 signatures already gathered just just within the space of a few weeks? Correct. That's, you need about 890,000 signatures by February 2024 to get it onto statewide ballots. So that's certainly quite an effort to out the gate there. I do want to go to the phones. You can call us at 305-995-1800. We have David calling from Boca Raton. David, thanks for calling.

You're welcome. I was very interested to hear Monet's statement because both my wife and myself would gladly sign petitions if we knew where the petitions were to be signed. We do have a local office only a few blocks from our home that is operated by Planned Parenthood. Do we go there, or do we wait for someone to call us on the phone? But we certainly support it strongly, and fear that with DeSantis' governorship, second term, governorship, second term, and the legislature that is essentially responding to every idea that he has.

The government is not representing the people. It's representing a small, if you will, cult or segment of the people of the state of Florida, allowing religion to insinuate itself into our education and the monies that are paid to support religious education out of the taxpayer dollars, and, of course, going from even a 15-week a year ago right to an abortion to a six-week, is simply, again, an indication that they've bent over backwards to accommodate not the whole of the state, but a segment of the state, and that segment is doing harm. Thank you so much for your call, David. Monet, I'll let you respond to that. He was asking, at least for part of it, where he can go sign one of these.

What do you have to tell him? Well, thank you, David, to you and your wife for your support in this effort. You can go to FloridiansProtectingFreedom.com and you can immediately print a petition and sign it. And there you will also receive the information on how to return the petitions. We have hub locations across the state in which our volunteers are turning them in. And you can also mail them off yourself. But FloridiansProtectingFreedom.com is where you can access the petition and any other information to support this effort as well.

Thank you. I want to go back to Laura Morrell. Laura, actually, just coming off of some of David's comments, as mentioned, many of these crisis pregnancy centers that are now getting a boost in state funding do have religious affiliation. Are there any guardrails or limitations for the government funding these institutions? So I haven't found much evidence of guardrails around government funding of CPCs. I will say that according to the state's contract with centers that get state funding, centers are not allowed to engage in conversations about

prayer or religion with clients during the pregnancy counseling sessions. But because no one is inspecting the vast majority of these centers on a regular basis, like you would a typical medical facility, it's unclear whether they're following these rules. And to that point, I mean, is there state oversight of them? If you know, is the State Department of Health overseeing them? I mean, I know many of them are not medical facilities, but some of them are. Right. So the in the vast majority of states, including Florida, they are not required to be licensed or inspected, even if they're offering medical services. And that is really concerning, right? Because that means that no one is checking to see if staff are licensed and properly trained to provide the services that they offer. You know, no one is inspecting facilities and equipment to make sure

that they're clean and up to date. And there's no one, you know, protecting clients personal information, because the vast majority of pregnancy centers don't have to abide by HIPAA. You know, and in many states, I found that tanning salons, massage parlors, and sometimes even pet stores face significantly stricter oversight than pregnancy centers. Wow, you can call us at 305-995-1800. I want to go to Michelle calling us from Tallahassee. Michelle, thanks for calling. Certainly. Please go ahead. You're on. I just wanted to say, first of all, I would certainly sign a petition if one were available to me. And second of all, we should not be supporting any clinic of any sort, especially religious clinics, by taxpayer dollars. Thank you for your call, Michelle.

Monet, I want to go back to you about the ballot initiative that has really hit the ground running. If this does get on the ballot, if it is if the language on it is approved by the Florida Supreme Court, which will have to be done at some point, is part of the hope here that this issue will mobilize low turnout voters to actually turn out and vote? Because in the background of this, putting abortion rights on the ballot has mobilized masses of voters in places like Kansas and Wisconsin just over the last couple of months. So, of course, this issue is not a particular to any one party or any one candidate. It's not a particular to any one party or any one candidate. And I think that always motivates folks to get out and vote up and down the ballot. We have a unique opportunity here because we have talked to individuals, Floridians, and this is something that they want to see. They do not believe that their families and those that they trust should be excluded from making decisions in regards to

their bodies. They want to remove this decision out of the hands of politicians and back into their own as, you know, they likely should have it. I think it will be a motivating factor for those who likely do not want to attach to a candidate or may not be happy with candidates who are on the ballot. And it will also be a topic of discussion for why people should go out and vote, because there's more at stake than per se who's at the top of the ticket in 2024. Right. And just to underscore what you're saying, opinion polls have showed that people across the political spectrum in the state of Florida are against what the legislature has done with this six-week ban. Monet, just like a tactical question, what kind of places are you all finding are the best for gathering signatures? I mean, the numbers that you just shared are stark.

I mean, you've really gotten a lot in a very short time. Yeah, so our paid petition gathering efforts, they have it down to a science. We are in a time, it is the summer, so we're definitely meeting people where they are, right? So whether it's high traffic areas, different events that are happening around the cities and around the state, those are places where we're able to actually talk to folks

and get them to sign these petitions. And it's been working well. And Laura, to go back to you quickly, what are you looking out for next when it comes to these crisis pregnancy centers? Well, I think one thing that's worth looking out for is the funding aspect of this. You know, we know in the state of Florida, these centers will be getting, you know, $25 million in taxpayer funding. Florida is actually among 14 states that fund pregnancy centers through these alternatives to abortion programs. So that's going to be something to keep an eye out on. The other thing is, as I mentioned earlier, just the growing influence of these centers, especially now,

post Roe, you know, as abortion providers close their doors, especially in conservative states, some of these centers might try to provide more services and an area. They're going to play a bigger role. We're going to have to leave it there. Laura Morrell is a reporter covering reproductive health for Reveal and also joining us is Monet Holder, Senior Director of Advocacy and Programs for Florida Rousing. Thank you both for coming on. And hotter sands are threatening Florida sea turtles.

The culprit, microplastics. We'll be right back. Thank you. Welcome back to the Florida Roundup. I'm Danny Rivero in Miami. We're in the midst of sea turtle nesting season right now, which began in Florida on March 1st and last through the end of October. It's a time of year when Floridians are instructed to take simple steps to help the endangered species this time of year. Things like turning off artificial lighting near beaches so hatchlings aren't misled when using moonlight to navigate from the nest to the shore, making sure to provide plenty of spaces for nests on the beaches, and properly disposing food items and waste. But there's another threat to Florida sea turtles not covered by that list that's tougher to tackle. And that thing is plastic pollution.

New research from Florida State University shows hotter sand from microplastics could affect sea turtle development. Joining us now to help us understand more about this, we welcome WLRN's environmental editor, Jenny Stiletovich. Jenny, thanks for coming on. You're welcome. And you can give us a call at 305-995-1800 or tweet us at Florida Roundup.

So, Jenny, you've reported on this kind of research in the past. An FSU study from 2018 found that tiny microplastics in the sand could be heating up the beaches. And how are scientists finding that this hotter sand impacts sea turtles? Right. So they have understood for a long time that temperatures determine the sex of sea turtles. They're cold-blooded animals. And so when the temperatures rise, there tend to be more female turtles than males. There's actually, they've set ranges where anything above about 89 degrees produces more females and below 82 produces more males. So the Goldilocks range is right between 82 and 89, where you get a good mix of the sexes.

So when they discovered in 2018 that the plastics that they were seeing in sands were causing the temperature to rise in the sand, they wondered, like, okay, we probably should figure out, like, what are some thresholds for when that starts to change the sexes of the turtles? Besides the temperature of the sand, like, what are the concentrations needed to change that temperature and i mean just just help me understand like where are these plastics coming is this just things coming in with the tides because there's so much plastic in the ocean is this little things people are leaving on the beach like what do we know about where this is coming from well so we know that it's been documented that about 10 of the plastics produced every year on the planet end up in the world's oceans. And so, you know, we see the large plastic bottles and floats and everything else. But microplastics are something that are used in cosmetics, and they can also be produced when plastic gets ground down. So they essentially become like little grains of sand made out of plastic instead of like silicate or sand. And those little pieces of plastic get hotter than the sand that surrounds them, it sounds like? Yeah, they tend to, they heat up,

and then they cool down more slowly. It takes them longer to cool down than just regular sand. And do we have a sense of how long it might take for us to see this gender imbalance play out in the species, where, as you mentioned, the hotter the sand gets, the more females are being born, which causes ripple effects downstream. Right. so FAU, Florida Atlantic University, did a study that looked back to 2002 and found that Florida sea turtles or females are dominating those nestings. We're actually getting more females than males now. As far as like when that starts to cause, alters the population, I don't know. There may be some research on that, but I'm sorry, I don't know. There may be some research on that, but I'm sorry, I just don't know. No, it's okay. But Jenny, can you tell us a little bit about what this new study that just

came out found? Did it expand in some significant way on past research that you've looked at? Yeah. So this was actually the same researcher who did that earlier study that found there were concentrations of master microplastics and sand that were changing the temperature. So then they went back and just wanted to look at those concentrations. Like, they set up an experiment, you know, and they varied the concentrations of microplastics and sand and then measured when the temperature started to change. And so they found that with concentrations between 5% and 30%, they started to see changes. And obviously, the highest concentrations produce the biggest

temperature change, which at 30%, I'm sorry, these are a lot of numbers, but it changed the temperature by about 0.58 degrees Celsius, which is, you know, when you talk about such a small range of temperature to determine a turtle sex, that can have a big impact. And when you say 30%, you mean 30% of what we think as sand on the beach, like 30% of that would be microplastics? Well, yeah. So for their experiment, they like took 55 gallon drums, you know, they had to have a set amount. And then they buried the microplastics in those 55 gallon drums and found like at 30% of the, you know, the sediment, the sand and stuff in the gallon, then the 55 gallon drum, they would see changes. And does it impact that at all that,

you know, beach restoration projects, they ship in sand a lot of times from other places, and they kind of top it off and replenish these beaches with a lot of sand? Yeah, you know, that's a really good question. Because we've clearly not measured the microplastics on all the sands and in all the beaches, you know, so we they only know concentrations on beaches that they've measured. And I don't know if where they're getting sand we in Florida, we used to sometimes we get our sand from the Bahamas, we have sand mines, you know, out west. So So I don't know if that's going to become a factor. It certainly seems like it should be something we look at.

You're listening to the Florida Roundup from Florida Public Radio. So, Jenny, I mean, you've covered sea turtles in Florida for quite some time, as you mentioned. I mean, what is their population doing like in the big picture? doing like in the big picture? So we've actually had some good recovery of sea turtles because we've done so much to protect their nesting. So they're up from, you know, when they were first, they haven't recovered, you know, clearly they're still endangered and they're still protected, but they're doing a little bit better because we have done things like you mentioned controlling the lighting on beaches so they don't get confused and head toward the city instead of toward the ocean. And we protected nests. Anybody who's wandered along a beach during a nesting season will see those stakes and

pink tapes, you know, marching, marking off where the nests are. Right. And in Florida, where are the hotspots for where this nesting is happening? So most of the, we have turtle nesting down in the Dry Tortugas and the Keys. Palm Beach County has a lot of turtle nesting. Up around Vero Beach is a big turtle nest area. There are stretches of beaches that the turtles favor because they're just kind of the right habitat. And female turtles will come back to the same beach year after year and nest. So they're pretty predictable where they like to come to. And beyond just the sea turtles, which are clearly very important and endangered species, do we know how other species are affected by

this plastic pollution on the beaches and also in the water, I suppose? Well, we know that cold-blooded reptiles, like sea turtles, their sex in incubation is determined by temperature. This isn't just something that happens with sea turtles. It happens with other cold blooded animals. So I don't know what other research has been done on ingesting plastics or nesting for those animals. But it potentially could have the same impact. And if someone's listening to this and they're saying, well, this doesn't sound good, maybe we should try to use less plastic, you know, because the more plastic that's used, as you mentioned, means more ends up in the waters, which ends up on the beaches.

It's kind of a cycle. But if someone's trying to figure out how to use less plastic, you got anything to say to them? Don't use, don't drink bottled water. No, just there are many ways you can limit your plastic use, just like in your everyday habits. And that's probably just a good thing to do. I mean, you're exactly right. This shows another reason why we should be concerned about plastic pollution and how it's not just altering like, you know, habitat for wildlife, but polluting the ocean. I mean, it's the plastics in the ocean changes temperature. It changes. There's there's many consequences and repercussions. We've all seen images of those giant garbage patches in the middle of the ocean.

You know, you think about the sea life that's trying to survive. You think about the ocean current. Fish that are pulled up with plastic in their bellies. They have found plastic in the guts of seabirds and just all kinds of animals. And Jenny, I mean, once plastic is on the beach, you know, is there any means of removing those microplastic particles? Or once they're there, are they just kind of there? I would think the only way to get rid of it is to remove the sand. I think that microplastics do tend to collect in the upper levels of the sand.

to collect in the upper levels of the sand. But I don't, not that I know of, I've heard of any effort to sort of look at removal. And my last question here is, I mean, sea turtles are known to live a very long time. Is this affecting very mature ones? Is this affecting mostly young sea turtles? Well, so for this study, they just looked at the sexing of turtles, nesting in beaches with a higher concentration of plastics.

Got it. Well, a lot of interesting things. Everyone, keep your plastic use in mind, keep your plastic use in mind, especially when you go to the beach, you know, bring a water bottle of your own, take it back home. It is nesting season right now through the end of October. Thank you to WLRN's environmental editor, Jenny Stiletovich,

for joining us to talk about this. Jenny, thanks for coming on. Thank you, Danny. And that will about do it for the florida roundup this week um the florida roundup is produced by wjct public media in jacksonville and wlrn public media in miami heather schatz and bridget o'brien are the producers wlrn's vice president of radio and our technical director is peter mayers Engineering help from Doug Peterson, Charles Michaels, and Isabella Da Silva. Richard Ives answers the phones for us.

Our theme music is provided by Miami jazz guitarist Aaron Libos at aaronlibos.com. Happy Juneteenth, everyone. Enjoy that Monday. I'm Danny Rivero.