The Florida Roundup - The suspension of Florida’s affordable housing director; the evolution of high speed trains

Episode Date: August 18, 2023

This week on The Florida Roundup, we look into the suspension of Florida's affordable housing director and what it means for the new Live Local Act. Plus, Brightline's Miami-to-Orlando service is coming soon — what's next for Florida's high-speed rail? We get into that and other transportation news.

Welcome to the Florida Roundup. I'm Danny Rivero in Miami. And I'm Matthew Petty in Tampa. We probably don't have to wind up too much to get into the fact that Florida is in the middle of an affordable housing crisis. Some of the metro areas that have seen the biggest rent hikes in the nation since the start of the pandemic are right here, places like Miami and Tampa. since the start of the pandemic are right here, places like Miami and Tampa. Housing has emerged as the most pressing issue facing residents of the state, with many people saying they're simply getting priced out. This past legislative session, state lawmakers chose to do something about it. The law they passed, called the Live Local Act, has been hailed by Republicans and Democrats alike as a game changer for affordable housing in the state. The law just went into effect and it comes with a record $711 million in funding for housing

programs in Florida. But the agency that will decide where all that new cash goes just lost its leader, who was handpicked by Governor Ron DeSantis. Well, joining us now to talk about that and also what exactly is in the new law is Lawrence Mauer, reporter with the Tampa Bay Times. Lawrence, thank you for being here. Thank you for having me. Also joined by Elizabeth Strom, associate professor in the School of Public Affairs at the University of South Florida. Professor Strom, thank you. Thanks for having me. You can join the conversation to 305-995-1800 that's 305-995-1800. Send us a tweet on, we're at Florida Roundup rather. I want to hear your affordable housing stories. Maybe you're one of those folks who's being

priced out trying to buy a home or rent a place in one of these metro areas we're talking about. Love to hear your questions and comments. Lawrence, I want to start with you. You reported last week about Mike Napoli and his suspension. What do you know? What do we know about the reason for his suspension? Not much officially. The corporation, neither the corporation nor the governor's office has even acknowledged that this guy was even suspended. But what I've been told by current and former employees is that the allegations are around creating a hostile workplace. There might be some financial issues that they are looking into. I do know, this has not been officially acknowledged either, but I do know that there is an inspector general investigation ongoing and that inspector general has interviewed a number of people

so far yeah and in your reporting there was a note about a staffer who was fired before the napoli suspension what can you tell us about that yeah uh this is the board's longtime or excuse me, the longtime liaison to the board of directors for the corporation. And she was fired with apparently almost no notice, basically no notice and no reason. And she is alleged to or she says that she filed the complaint before she was fired about irregular spending practices and the use of the state credit card by Denapoli. And she has since filed multiple discrimination complaints over her firing. For people who may not be completely up to speed on the Florida Housing Finance Corporation and what it does, I mean, how long has it been around? What is the purpose of it?

Yeah, this was created by the legislature back in 1980. And it basically acts as a bank. It administers and stores basically billions you know, billions of dollars in affordable housing credits, tax money, basically, what it does is it administer, it provides low income loans, tax credits, it helps finance affordable housing projects all across the state. And it provides other things like, you know, mortgage assistance. And during the pandemic, it administered a number of programs to help people basically weather the pandemic. situation with the firing of the Napoli and the corporation that's having a critical time right as we mentioned at the start of the show there's a massive amount of money unprecedented for this corporation that that it needs to

distribute as part of this live local act just how important was he in that effort and what does his departure mean for the corporation and for the Live Local Act? Well, it's not so much him being there, being crucial to administering all this money. They're being basically the current CFO is running the place and she's been around for a long time. However, when he came in in February, a lot of people have left. He fired the longtime general counsel and the liaison to the board that I just mentioned. The general counsel was also the corporation's chief ethics officer. That person has not been replaced. They've had a big brain drain over there since he came on board.

And it has something to do, these people left, and for many reasons, I'm told, because this guy was fostering a hostile work environment. And so you have a corporation where a lot of people have been there for decades. This is very detailed work. And there's a lot of expertise and there's not a lot of people who do this kind of work. And so there has been a major brain drain. And I'd say that's been more of an effect or had more of an effect on the corporation than him, just him being suspended. 1800. We want to hear your thoughts if you're listening to this about the state of affordable housing, hopes about this new law, concerns about this new law. And on that note, I want to bring in Professor Elizabeth Strum into the conversation. Elizabeth, this law that Governor Ron DeSantis signed, Senate Bill 102, the Live Local Act, it went into effect in July, and the legislation is aimed at making housing more affordable for Floridians. Can you tell us a little bit about how the bill is intended to work to that end? Absolutely. Now, first of all, the bill is very complicated, and it's 75

pages long. So I'm sure you and your listeners will be glad that I do not intend to go through the entire thing. And what I will do is highlight some of the key issues, and some of the things in the bill are very straightforward. So, for example, it increases the amount of money going to some of the programs that the Florida Housing Finance Corporation runs. They have acronyms like SHIP and SAIL, and they're designed to help developers and nonprofit developers build housing that is affordable to lower income people. So they've struggled to get funding each year ever since the Great Recession, really. And so

now they'll be fully funded plus moving forward. Some other simple things are they're requiring local governments to post directories of available surplus public land that could be developed for affordable housing. Many developers have trouble finding land that can be used for housing, and so that's going to help. enact any kind of rent regulations. And so it was always difficult in Florida. Orange County tried last year, if you may recall, but they were shot down by the courts. So now it's clear we cannot have rent regulation in Florida. So that's the easy part. The more complicated part is a whole series of tax abatements and zoning overrides for developers of sort of a broad swath of housing that is labeled affordable, that basically requires local governments to allow housing to take place in areas that might have been zoned for commercial or for industrial use, and also requires local governments to give tax incentives for this kind of development, many of which are as of right for the developer.

So a lot of the controversies we hear about this bill are not about the simple parts, but about the complicated parts and the areas where local governments feel like they're losing the ability to steer development at all. So that may be where some of the pushback is coming. And speaking of that pushback, this law is already getting some pushback here in South Florida, where I'm based, specifically on the parts where it limits the ability of local governments to shoot down developments that they might not like, that they feel that doesn't match the character of their neighborhoods. Let's listen to Senate President Republican Kathleen Pasadena on why she told us earlier this year why that was a necessary course of action.

One of the things we do ask and we do suggest is that they reduce the time frame for permitting. And I'll tell you why we did that, because local governments, if they don't want affordable housing because it's crime ridden or whatever, they slow walk those projects. They put so many restrictions on them that they can't pass what we're saying is we want you to fast track those permits if they do it right and so professor um the the intent here is to really speed things up um you know development can take years to get one project online um do we have any sense of how quickly the impact of this could be felt like on the ground level? I think in some ways very quickly, in some ways not quickly at all. And the reason I say that is I think developers are already looking at this and saying,

where can I build? And so that's where some of the pushback is coming from. Like you mentioned in South Florida, there are already developers who are talking about using the provisions of this law to be able to build in places that were off limits or build larger than they might have been able to build. And so that's where you see it happening quickly. Where I think it won't be so quick is that this law is so complicated and there's so many details of it that have yet to be worked out. I have a feeling that we're going to have a lot of court cases that emerge from this, as it's not really clear which of any local laws still do apply. Like, can you build as much as you want on a barrier island where

there are real concerns about sea level rise and evacuation? Can you build in an industrial area where there are threats of pollution? So which local laws exactly have to sort of give a basis to new development and which can still be applied? So I have a feeling there'll be a lot of efforts of developers to test this law but then also some pushback that may involve either changes in the legislation or may involve court cases. The number is 305-995-1800. I want to go to the line. We have Mark calling from Sarasota. Mark, thanks for calling. You're on the line. No problem. Yeah, I'm considering myself a financial refugee at this point. I can no longer afford to live in Florida. I've been here 35 years. With the rate of pay and the massive increases in both mortgage prices, housing prices, and rent prices, I can't stay here anymore. In fact, I'm moving in a month to another state because my rent just keeps going up and up and up. I'm now spending 50% of my income just on rent alone during the slower period of the year.

And I make good money. And Mark, how much has your rent gone up the last couple of years? The place I'm in, I moved into at $950 a month. It is now at $1,550 a month and going up because the average in our area is about $2,100 a month. And I physically, I can't stay here. Mark, thank you so much for calling in and sharing your story. I'd love to hear some more comments too. 305-995-1800. You can also send us a tweet. We are at Florida Roundup. Professor Strom, what about that? I mean, we hear from Mark describing himself as a financial refugee. That's a real kind of dinner table conversation that a lot of families and folks are having, right?

Can I afford to live here? Where do I go? Absolutely. I mean, to be clear, people who are of lower income have always been having those conversations. But for people who are middle class and above, Florida has long been a very affordable place. And so that's changed. And in a way, we've become more like places like California or New York, where school teachers and people who earn a decent income can't afford to live here or have to make a lot of compromises about the kind of housing that they have. Yes. And in fact, in some recent reporting from the Orlando Sentinel Habitat for Humanity, Greater Orlando and Osceola County, President and CEO Catherine Steck McManus was quoted as saying that the face of affordable housing isn't what you might think and that nurses, public school teachers, mail carriers and young professionals are struggling. So that tells you a little bit, I think, about where the affordable housing crisis is in Florida. I mean, if young professionals are feeling the effects, what does that mean for folks

further down the income scale? It's devastating for those people. I mean, we've seen after, you know, during the height of the COVID pandemic, we had eviction moratoriums and we had emergency rental housing. And so that kind of bought us some time in terms of the, you know, the real crisis for lower income people. But now

eviction rates are higher than they were even before the pandemic. And so, you know, you can imagine if people who are earning around the median income for the area, which for many of our metros is around $75,000 or $80,000 a year. If those people are struggling to find decent housing, then what about the teacher's aides and the home health aides who are earning $30,000 a year? Where can they live? And I think those are folks who end up in very substandard housing. They're very housing insecure. And so it kind of ripples down across the different income levels.

Let's get a call in from Rob in Jensen Beach. Rob, you're on the air. Yes, thank you for taking my call. I just want to point out at the same time you're doing this, the legislature is doing its best to diminish home rule. So any developer can say that like Martin County is being unreasonable and they can take it to court, and guess what? The county will have to pay the legal fees, whatever the outcome. And it's really questionable who's going to end up with the apartment, because here, all these luxury apartments go for $3,000 a month, and there's nothing there for working people. And let's face it, Florida is a service economy and

what are all these people going to do without the hired help to take care of them? Rob, thank you so much for your call. I really appreciate it. Lawrence, let me bring you back into this. What about that? I mean, while this Live Local Act was being crafted, questions, concerns about that very thing, the home rule being taken away for one, and the fact that, you know, what is in there for folks at the lower end of the income scale? Well, to your first point,

I mean, removing home rule was very deliberate by the legislature here. This is something that they wanted to do because they've been sick and tired, basically, of seeing affordable housing projects being proposed in local communities and people in the community coming out and protesting them because of, you know, fake narratives about crime, low income people living in the neighborhood. In Seminole, in Tampa Bay, they voted down an affordable housing project

a couple of years ago for disabled veterans. Now that eventually came back, but those were the kinds of things that the legislature was trying to prevent here, prevent communities from saying, oh, well, you know, this is, you know, locals, you know, want to maintain their community. And, you know, we're going to vote down this affordable housing project because, well, it won't maintain the character of the community. And so this was what they're trying

to do. They're trying to build affordable housing in industrial areas, parts of town that, you know, frankly, you know, might have space to build, like in industrial areas. And so, you know, the goal here is to build up the housing stock, to make more and more units available so that, you know, there will be basically, it might drive down the cost of rent. Professor Strom, I want to bring you in. There's obviously a lot of tension on this, especially with respect to home rule, ability of local residents to participate in public hearings and whatnot. I do want to ask, so you wrote an op-ed earlier this year that cites cities like Tampa and their need to grow up, like literally to grow upwards to tackle

housing affordability. Can you explain what you meant? and do you think this law might force them to build up? To some extent. So first of all, shout out to Nathan Hagan, who is my co-author on that. And I think that this law is intended to go in that direction. I will and I agree with everything Lawrence said. I will note that it's interesting that they are that they were making it very easy to build in commercial and industrial areas. They have not really done much to force local governments to rethink single-family zoning, which is what takes up most of our counties and our cities. And so in a way, they're directing all the expedited housing development into certain very specific areas and leaving the rest of it untouched and so I think that it's important to rethink all of that and

that includes single-family zoning we have so many areas where you can only build single-family homes and those may be areas where townhomes or or garden apartments would be the appropriate housing style especially if they're near commercial corridors and if they're near work and school then why shouldn't more people be living in those areas which would make it more affordable make transit more realistic and then also be able to provide opportunities for the many people who live here and the many people who are coming here lots to talk about on this subject will be a perennial issue I'm sure that we're

going to be following in the months and years ahead. We've been speaking so far with Lawrence Maurer of the Tampa Bay Times and Associate Professor Elizabeth Strom with the University of South Florida School of Public Affairs. Thanks for all the callers. Many of you couldn't get on, but still, thank you. Thank you both for joining us, Elizabeth and Lawrence. Thank you. And up next, Brightline delays the start of its Orlando to South Florida train. We talk about what the new rail service means when we get back.

Welcome back to the Florida Roundup. I'm Matthew Pitti in Tampa. And I'm Danny Rivero in Miami. Soon, there will be a new passenger rail service connecting South Florida to Orlando. I'm extremely proud. People don't realize how hard it is to do big things, and particularly in transportation, where the amount of capital invested is massive. So to have a company that can dream like this, vision like this, and execute like this

is really a benefit not just for our city and for our community and our state, but also for our country. That was Miami Mayor and Republican White House hopeful Francis Suarez speaking at a celebration at the Brightline Orlando Station to celebrate the end of construction in Central Florida. And this moment has been a long end of construction in central Florida. And this moment has been a long, long time in the making. Brightline, then known as All Aboard Florida, first announced plans for a train service between Miami and the Magic City in 2012. But that wasn't

the first passenger train that Floridians were promised. That's right Danny. Voters passed a constitutional amendment back in 2000 that mandated that a high-speed rail service be constructed. That amendment was repealed however in 2004 and then there was the Florida high-speed corridor. That service would have run between the cities of Tampa and Orlando with plans to then extend the service to Miami. Florida received 2.44 billion from the federal government to build that rail line, but the project was cancelled after then-Governor Rick Scott rejected the funding, which was projected to cover some 90% of the construction costs. The truth is that this project would be far too costly to taxpayers,

and I believe the risk far outweighs the benefits. That's Rick Scott, now Florida's junior United States Senator, speaking in 2011. Connecticut, we should mention, actually opened a high-speed train in 2018 with money that should have come to Florida. But we digress. That same year, in 2018, Rick Scott did voice support for the privately funded All Aboard Florida, which is now known as Brightline. And later that year, Brightline started operations between Miami and West Palm Beach, with a stop in Fort Lauderdale in between. And now the rail extension connecting Miami to Orlando is essentially ready to begin operations, though exactly when service will start remains unclear. Joining us now to talk about what this new train service will

mean for South and Central Florida and down the road, potentially the rest of our state, is Professor Lily Elefthario, the Director of University of Florida's Transportation Institute. Also joining us is Ryan Lynch, reporter at the Orlando Business Journal and South Florida Sun Sentinel business writer, David Lyons. Lily, Ryan, David, thank you so much for coming on. Thank you for having me. Thanks for having me. And we want to hear from you, our listeners. Are you excited to ride the train from South Florida to Orlando? Or do you have thoughts on mass transit or a lack thereof in Florida?

What does your daily commute look like? You can call us at 305-995-1800. And you can also send us a tweet at Florida Roundup. Ryan, let's start with you. Brightline has for now postponed its September 1st inauguration until further notice for that Miami to Orlando line. It's offering refunds to customers who already bought their tickets. But can you fill us in on what do we know about this delay? So Brightline had not announced an official

starting date. But if you look to buy tickets, they had through September 1st through the start of next year, they had announced that they were unable to make enough progress tied to their certification progress that included testing at 110 and 125 miles per hour along the corridor, as well as staff certification. So they had pushed that. Currently, if you look at their website, they still have trains scheduled for the 7th. scheduled for the 7th. That's the earliest day that they've sold tickets for and that they've, you know, are currently having tickets, but they still haven't announced an official starting day. So who's still awaiting that? Like you had mentioned, they are offering the refund. They've also offered rental car discounts for folks who are still traveling that weekend, as well as a premium ticket voucher in the size of their party that basically gives

them a premium ticket they can use in the future just for the inconvenience of not being able to travel during that holiday weekend. And, you know, that there is delay, but it is clear that this is moving forward and within a few weeks, likely it is going to be running. And Ryan, you've talked to stakeholders in Central Florida about Brightline. What is the expected impact that this train service is projected to have on the region? I think if you talk to a lot of local leaders, they obviously pointed to the dozens of jobs that have come through. Obviously, when it comes to running the station as well as maintaining the trains that will be running. You talk about the hundreds of construction jobs that are created, but they also talk about the new way to connect to different regions. Obviously, Miami and Orlando have a lot

of companies that have locations in both areas and often have folks that travel between both locations. And obviously, that can be an inconvenience if you're driving and might not prefer that option but if there's a train option that might be more beneficial to some users and might provide some opportunities for future business connections whether that's through networking going to events in either city or through some of the other ways that businesses kind of travel between both. Professor Eleftheriadou, I want to bring you into the conversation. As we mentioned earlier, this has been a long road trying to get some high speed trains or at least higher speed trains

in operational in Florida. And now that it does seem like this is on the horizon, in Florida. And now that it does seem like this is on the horizon, I'm curious, how much of a difference is this going to make in how we travel across the state, how we perceive travel across the state? What's your take on that? Sure. And thanks again for having me. First, let me just emphasize how important transportation is to people's livelihoods, jobs, education, community participation. So I'm just so very glad that we're talking about it. Regarding Brightline, I think, and what the research has been showing is how important alternatives are

to people who travel within a city or between Orlando and Miami. I think this is a great alternative for those who are not able to drive or prefer not to drive. A good example, I think, is a tourist flying from Europe to Orlando. And Europeans are very used to traveling by train. They may not be interested in navigating the craziness of traffic. In Florida, they may be more likely to sit comfortably in a train and travel to Port Lauderdale and Miami.

So I think that opens up new opportunities. I think it's also potentially an important change in culture and attitude toward trains. Do you imagine that seeing this run? I mean, the Bright Line is running between Miami and West Palm Beach now. It has some amount of ridership. But do you think this really major step of connecting the metropolitan areas of South Florida and Central Florida. Could that down the line encourage more investment in rail, whether it's private or public? Well, it's likely. I've had the opportunity to personally take the train from Fort Lauderdale to Miami,

and I was really impressed with the quality of the trains, the overall experience. It was just a very nice change of pace rather than having to drive I-95 in that area. So my guess is that it's going to be a very attractive alternative, especially for people who travel regularly and also for tourists. You're listening to the Florida Roundup 305-995-1800. I'd love to hear some of your impressions of rail or riding the many roads that we have, whether it's I-4 or roads further south. Give us a call, 305-995-1800.

David Lyons with the South Florida Sun Central. Let me bring you into this conversation. Professor Eleftheriadou mentioned tourists as a sort of potential market for Brightline, but who is using that Brightline service that's already running in South Florida? And who else do you think this new intercity service might be aimed at? Well, the business community, and thanks for having me. I appreciate the opportunity. I think that management was somewhat surprised that they have drawn the numbers of business travelers and commuters that they've drawn to date. Wes Edens, the chairman of the company, told CNBC for a short documentary recently that they actually turned an operating profit in the in the month of March after having placed you know the two new stations online in South Florida at Aventura and North Miami-Dade as well as in Boca Raton which rests obviously north of Fort Lauderdale and south of West Palm Beach, and it's got a burgeoning business community with a lot of relocations. And so I think they've picked up large numbers of commuters who are professionals, people in the financial and legal and technology communities, might be living here in Fort Lauderdale with an office up in West Palm Beach

or down in Miami, and they hop the train to go to work, and they live here. Or there's some other type of work, residential combination. And so they've been encouraging the business community at large. They've got these corporate passes.

I guess business employers can buy passes for their employees, or employees can buy monthly passes for about $95, I guess it is. And just during the course of my conversations with people in the business community, you're always hearing somebody who's commuting, or you're on the phone with somebody and they're on a bright line train going between one of the two cities. Right, so already getting some ridership there. Let's just hear a little bit of tape from Congressman Brian Mast. His district covers St. Lucie, Martin and portions of northern Palm Beach County. He had some concerns about how the railroad will

impact boaters' access to the St. Lucie River Railroad, Drawbridge and Stewart. Here's Representative Mast speaking to WPF, PBF rather, News. It doesn't matter if Brightline says that they need 45 minutes an hour or that they need 35 minutes an hour if it's unfair to the community that owns the waterway. I do not give a rat's caboose if they say they need 45 minutes an hour, if it means closing off our waterway more than 50% of the time. So some concerns expressed there by Representative Mast. Let's get a call on here. We've got Melanie calling in from Fort Pierce. Melanie, what are your thoughts about Brightline? Hi, thank you so much for taking my call. I am all for public transportation, having lived in some, Stewart, and our areas were built to be very small towns.

And there's not been accommodations in upgrades of the roads. It's going to be blocking the island to have the patients get to the hospital, and the liquefaction issue. Yeah, can you explain what you mean by liquefaction? Are you talking about like land liquefaction or something? Yes. When land is near water, and we are, of course, near water, the shaking of the train can cause the land, and I'm not an engineer. It's my husband who could explain it better.

He's an engineer. liquefied as it mixes with the water in the area and it can undermine the railway it can undermine all of our historical buildings um and it's an emphasis it's a structural it can cause right so so quite quite a few concerns there mel, thank you so much for your call. Concerns about the kind of engineering impacts and also, I guess, towns and cities being left out in between. Professor Eleftheria, I wonder if you could just address some of those, I guess, environmental challenges about this rail line. What are you hearing? What are you thinking? great question and this is not something that I am familiar with or have heard much about but it sounds to me like this would be a very good question for Brightline at this point to discuss how this has been addressed. With respect to access to intermediate points there's always this issue of um you know trade-offs between speed and uh and access and so again i think we should be looking at uh bright line as one part of the overall transportation system um you know access at the last mile and and on, but also provisions and other transportation alternatives for people who live along the route.

You're listening to the Florida Roundup from Florida Public Radio. Ryan Lynch, I want to come back to you about, you know, Florida's lack of public transit systems or mass public mass transit systems that can compare to places like New York, San Francisco and Boston have frequently been cited as one of the reasons why it's so hard to attract certain types of companies and professionals to Florida. really have been shown to value robust transit systems. And many workers want to live where they don't have to drive. And this line is about to open up. That's obviously momentum and movement in that area. But my question for you is, is the general lack of robust public transit holding Florida back economically in any sense?

I think if you look at the local area, as an example, Orange County Mayor Jerry Demings, who previously tried and failed to get a transportation penny sales tax to kind of boost those investments, which they said would help with some of those economic drivers that we kind of mentioned in the question. He said that's one of the few things that's missing from the area just in terms of helping to draw some of those companies to the region. And obviously, a lot of the area's cities use that as an economic development tool. You look at Orlando for some of their downtown businesses often includes a transportation spending account as part of that to kind of encourage companies to have that. But obviously, with a rail system that kind of encourage companies to have that but obviously with a rail system that kind of goes

only along i4 and a bus system that you know some have some short headways and some have some longer headways it's a little bit harder to plan around without you know some additional expansion in offing or some quicker service and ryan um can you help us understand, like, how is Brightline turning a profit right now? Do we know? Do they expect to turn a profit once this line opens in Orlando? Currently, they're not. But obviously, with the expanded service, that's what they're expecting the increased revenue to come from. Obviously, you know, you and I haven't seen the service run yet. So it's hard to say how much they might generate. And some of the reports that they've offered up so far have not included those sort of estimates. But a lot of their ridership and revenue reports have talked about the potential connectivity with some of these other destinations, both, you know, with the Orlando International Airport and some of the future expansions as driving some additional ridership and having those ridership levels that really kind of boost that revenue. And Professor Eleftheriadou, do you

suspect that this might be profitable, actually? That is a great question, and I wish I knew. But, you know, I think that there is a huge need for alternatives. You know, Florida is a peninsula, and, you know, I-75 and I-95 can only handle so much. Thank you. We'll be right back after the break, continuing our conversation about transit in Florida. You're listening to the South Florida Roundup, the Florida Roundup from Florida Public Radio. Welcome back to the Florida Roundup. I'm Danny Rivero in Miami. And I'm Matthew Petty in Tampa. We're talking about transportation in Florida,

the delayed launch of the Brightline high-earth speed rail service from South Florida to Orlando. Other modes of mass transit, congestion, other transportation challenges facing the state. And welcome back to our guests, Orlando Business Journal reporter Ryan Lynch, South Florida Sun Sentinel business writer David Lyons, and Professor Lily Eleftheriadou,

the director of the University of Florida's Transportation Institute. We're still taking your calls as well, 305-995-1800. You can also send us a tweet. We are at Florida Roundup. Let's get a call on the line here. Albert is calling in from Jacksonville. Albert, you're on the air. Hi, yes.

I'm actually based in Miami. I'm in manufacturing, and I visit clients all over the state. And about two weeks ago, for the first time, I got on Amtrak, just to alleviate my driving, because I drive a lot, and it just beats me up. And I was on the Amtrak, and literally, we just struck up conversations with people around me, and about eight people in our general vicinity all were using Amtrak for the first time. And pretty much all of them were fervoring around Brightline coming online because the trip was about a four-and-a-half-hour trip, five-hour trip.

Brightline would cut that significantly. I took Brightline to Palm Beach this week, rented a car, and then drove up like I normally do. Now, realistically, having Brightline to Orlando would change the game for me. I would come up to visit my clients more often. I know it wouldn't beat my body up to get on the road and travel. It's sort of the old story of induced demand. If you build it, they will come.

I feel like the state, anecdotally, the state and the general economy will be benefited immensely if this option was brought to bear. Albert, thank you so much for your call. Appreciate that anecdote there. David Lyons, what about that? It sounds like a potential customer. And from what he was saying, some other folks would be more than happy to ditch their car for that kind of business commute. Is that kind of track with what you were hearing from folks in the South Florida area? Yes, it is. And actually it would for me, I spent 32 years commuting between West Broward County and downtown Miami and that sent me into a variety of mental states I wouldn't want to describe here.

But it's, and I've used Brightline on multiple occasions to go between Fort Lauderdale and Miami. I hear, you know, people on the train and speak with them, you know, they're happy with the service and I think, you know, just generally speaking from a developmental standpoint, Brightline is always in the conversation vis-a-vis transit-oriented developments and urban development, economic development agencies, either at the county or city levels are talking up Brightline as a tool to bring companies into the region. And the other aspect as well is, you know, that there, it's a great transportation link for tourists.

You know, they've got an alternative to run between the events, whether they're professional sports in South Florida to the entertainment centers of Orange County and elsewhere. And you hear, it seems to me as if management has been back to cutting deals with entertainment centers, professional sports teams and other sources of entertainment with entertainment centers, professional sports teams,

and other sources of entertainment to have people use the train as opposed to the car. And they've got ground transportation that can take you from each station to short distances. They've been advertising, for example, for the many minions who are eager to see Lionel Messi up here at the Miami Stadium in Fort Lauderdale, they put on additional trains, and they've got free shuttles to take passengers. So there are a lot of, you know, incremental

things like that that the line is trying out, and I would think there'll probably be a multiplier effect over time as the service increases. Let's go to Britt now in Sarasota. Britt, you're on the air. Hey, Daniel. Matt, thanks for taking my call. First off, love Matt Strand, the big train nerd. Rick Scott definitely dropped the ball. $2 billion offered in the middle of a recession would have created jobs.

He was complaining about that 10 percent not being picked up. That was definitely covered and a huge, huge ball drop. And on that, you know, Governor DeSantis just turned down 347 million dollars in funding for green jobs and green energy. I feel like this is just a repeat of the hard right Florida legislature just turning down stuff that helps lower-income people and the stuff that the people definitely want. Look at this bright line. Two hours, 59 minutes going from Orlando to Miami, $79. This is definitely something people want.

It's unfortunate that we have to get this on private markets for stuff like this to come in. Thanks so much, Nicole. Ryan Lynch, what about that? Obviously, there is some more money, and you mentioned, referenced that federal money sort of from back in the fairly recent past in Florida that would have gone to high-speed rail, but what's your sense of the kind of willingness of state leaders to pitch in here? I think we're still seeing state leaders who are willing to have that within Orlando, or looking at the future expansion of both Brightline and SunRail through that Sunshine Corridor, which would include stops at the Orange County Convention Center, as well as on South International Drive near Disney.

So I think definitely at the local level, you're still seeing folks join partnerships with some of the transportation providers as well as some of their US reps to try and access some of that funding. Professor Lili Eleftheriadou, I want to bring you back into the conversation. As Ryan was just mentioning, there is a lot of things happening locally, even here in South Florida. The the tri rail trains are expected to start running into downtown Miami at some point in the near future. It keeps getting kicked down, but it is in the works. But on a broader scale, what are Florida's transportation needs as a as a whole state? needs as a whole state? Yes, thank you. I think what is important is for us to address the significant increase in population growth, which is creating significant strain for

agencies to be able to keep up. Agency staff have a hard time keeping up and up. You know, agency staff have a hard time keeping up and budgets are still very constrained. So generally, I would say that based on the research, everything we see is that everybody would like an alternative to the automobile. So even sometimes when conventional wisdom says otherwise, it is important that we provide alternatives. Sooner or later, we're all going to need an alternative to the automobile. You're listening to the Florida Roundup from Florida Public Radio. Professor, back to you. When it comes to the state budget, the State Department of Transportation, what do their budgets actually look like when it comes to

these alternatives that you're speaking about? I mean, some state funding is going into the SunRail expansions that Ryan was talking about. Is this something that has shown to be a priority for the state, or is it mostly roads? is it mostly roads? I would say that, you know, transportation is such a complex issue. It's not just the state, it's local agencies, it's private agencies. So we're going to have to look at this as the entire system. It's very, very complex and it makes it much more complex because of the increase in population and the very abrupt increase, I would say. 305-995-1800. You can call us. Want to go to the lines? We have Norm calling from Plantation in Broward County. Norm, thanks for calling. You're on. Okay. Yes, I was wondering about the choice of tracks that was chosen for Brightline, being that it runs along US-1 in Stade, Broward, and Palm Beach counties, where there's many, many, many railroad crossings, versus the other tracks that both Amtrak and TriR run-on that runs along I-95. A big thing that there's been a great number of fatalities, both pedestrian and automobiles,

from all the additional railroad crossings that Brightline sees. Right. Thank you for that, Norm. David Lyons with the South Florida Sun Sentinel. I want to pitch that to you. The Brightline line that's running now between Miami and West Palm Beach has been named the deadliest train per mile in America. As that service expands,

what is Brightline doing to address the potential of more of that happening? Yeah, I think they've been pushed by the Federal railroad administration to upgrade its crossing safety programs millions have been flowing out of washington through grants in which bright light jointly has applied for money with local communities, law enforcement, and other community agencies to upgrade new hardware with more crossing gates, bells and whistles, delineators, those poles that you see in the middle of the road

to keep people from trying to dodge between the gates. And then education programs as well, and just trying to, on social media and elsewhere, to get people to stay off the tracks and to stop their habit of trying to beat trains across the tracks as the crossings are going down. And that's one of the principal sources of these deaths. I think that Brightline, in many respects, from a psychological standpoint, has been viewed as an intrusion by a lot of motorists in this region. And when the gates

go down, they don't want to honor. Right. And they're doing what they can to reduce those fatalities and accidents. We have been speaking with Professor Lily Elif Tariadou, the director of the University of Florida's Transportation Institute, Orlando Business Journal reporter Ryan Lynch, and South Florida Sun Sentinel business writer David Lyons. Thank you all so much for coming on with us. Thank you. It was a pleasure. Thank you. And that's our show for this week. It's actually myself and Danny's last show. Tom Hudson will be back in the host seat next week. Florida Roundup, produced by WJCT Public Media in Jacksonville,

WLRN Public Media in Miami. Hear the chats. Bridget O'Brien are the producers. WLRN's vice president of radio and our technical director is Peter Mayers. Engineering help from Doug Peterson, Charles Michaels, Michelle Corum in Jackson Harp. Richard Ives answers the phones. Our theme music is provided by Miami jazz guitarist Aaron Libos at AaronLibos.com.

I'm Danny Rivero. And I'm Matthew Petty. Thanks for listening.