The Florida Roundup - UF looks for new leadership, federal role in weather forecasting, Florida’s famed springs

Episode Date: March 7, 2025

This week on The Florida Roundup, we traveled to Gainesville for a special show at our partner station WUFT at the University of Miami. First, we spoke with a journalist with the UF student-owned newspaper The Independent Florida Alligator (00:00). Then, we explored the role of the federal government in weather forecasting with Tim Miller, chief meteorologist for the Florida Public Radio Emergency Network (19:21). And later, WUFT reporter Rose Schnabel about the joy and jeopardy of Florida’s famed springs (37:15). And musical guest Thomas Allain also joins us for the hour.

This is the Florida Roundup. We are live today from WUFT in Gainesville here on campus at the University of Florida. It is great to be here in north central Florida. Thomas Elaine on guitar for us all hour long live in studio two. Great to be along with you here on the Florida Roundup Statewide. Let's get things started by talking about a massive changeover that's happening at many Florida's public universities. There's a dozen of them and in less than three years, eight of them have or will have a new leader, including the flagship school of higher learning where we are today on campus here at the University of Florida. The search for the next leader of UF is on. A committee has been formed, listening sessions have been held, a list of qualifications have been

created, even a compensation package has been approved. But few details are public in the effort to find the next leader of this public institution. So are you a Gator alum, a parent, a grandparent, an employee? What do you want out of the next leader of the University of Florida? The state's publicly funded universities are undergoing significant transition. Florida International University, Florida Atlantic University, both have named new presidents in recent weeks. Florida A&M University is looking for a new leader. The University of South Florida soon will be looking for a new president. Florida State, Florida Gulf Coast, University of North Florida,

Florida Polytechnic, and New College have all hired new presidents in just the past four years. An incredible, massive changeover of leadership of higher education here in the Sunshine State. So is it research excellence? Is it graduates finding jobs? Is it a sports championship, perhaps in basketball here in Gainesville in the weeks ahead? What should be the priorities of universities presidents? We do have our inbox open here as we're live in Gainesville.

Radio at thefloridaroundup.org is our email. Radio at thefloridaroundup.org. What about, radio at the FloridaRoundup.org. What about academic freedom? How about free speech on campus? These are all hot button issues. Politicians serving as university presidents. Let's get into it and you can email us, radio at the FloridaRoundup.org

and we will also be taking some live questions from our audience here as we're live at Studio 2 at WUFT in Gainesville. Garrett Shanley is with us now, the University desk editor and reporter at the Independent Florida Alligator, the reporter who has owned this story really. Garrett, welcome to the program. Nice to have you. Hi, good to be here. So the interim president here at the University of Florida is the former president, Ken Fox. He took over after Ben Sasse, a Republican senator from Nebraska, was hired after a long nationwide search. Tell us why Sasse was elected or appointed to become the leader of this institution.

Yeah, so I mean, as a Republican U.S. Senator, he's obviously a high profile candidate and there have been pretty successful Presidencies both in here in Florida and across the country with former Republican politicians John thrasher at FSU for example And you know, there's the benefit there with hiring a politician for political savvy, which you can leverage with the legislature and donors And he did have some academic bona fides, you know, Ivy League degrees. He had a five-year presidency at Midland University, which is a small liberal arts college in Nebraska. And he also just kind of dazzled the Board of Trustees here

with this bold vision for UF. I remember during his confirmation hearings here, he faced these interviews and lots of questions from the board. And in those, he really kind of pitched himself as more of a humanist than a politician. He talked about this electric moment we're in that was gonna upend a lot of the established order in higher

ed. He was quoting Tom Petty who's a pretty prolific Gainesville native. If you're looking for a job in Gainesville that would be a good one to quote from certainly. So what happened if there was a lot of dazzle, a lot of interest, right? A big vision, a bold vision, someone with a lot of government savvy and political connections. He spent 17, 18 months as president before SAS resigned? I think 18 when he officially stepped down. So what happened?

So he stepped down in July pretty abruptly. He decided he needed to spend more time with family. His wife Melissa suffered a stroke in 2007. And her health issues have been worsening. She was recently diagnosed with epilepsy. But some follow-up reporting by Vivian Saret, another alligator reporter, from her conversations with administrators and donors.

SAS's relationship with Maury Hisani, who's the chairman of the board of trustees here, had kind of slowly deteriorated over time. He had asked for more latitude to deal with his family. Hisani said no, and he needed to commit all this time to the presidency. They had disagreements about rankings here. And SAS had kind of increasingly been popular in the legislature and was trying to forge

a relationship with DeSantis. Governor Ron DeSantis, yeah. Yes. And Hussain, he's a big DeSantis donor and ally and has traditionally routed communications with the U.F. president through him. So he'd implemented an informal rule that SAS had to do that. So it just kind of became unten president through him. So he'd implemented an informal rule that SASS had to do that. So it just kind of became untenable for him. Yeah, I will share that we did make an invitation

to the board of trustees. We never heard back from the board of trustees for this program. We also invited the interim president, Ken Fox, to join us in a conversation, and he declined our invitation. After Ben Sass resigned, abruptly, after this 17 or 18- month tenure, you reported on spending

by his office as president. Significant amount of spending compared to what the then previous president's office had been spending. Give us a sense of what you found in that. Yeah, so we found that Sasse in his first year here had tripled the spending out of the president's office. He definitely beefed up presidential staff. He brought on a lot of his former Capitol Hill staff, gave them roles in his senior leadership team, and he also let them work out of state. So

they would commute to Gainesville periodically, so that definitely bolstered travel expenses out of that office. And he also hired consultants from McKinsey and Company. And that contract ended up totaling 6.3 million. And so give us a sense of how that compared to previous, that's a lot of money, but how does that compare, this is a big university, right? It's the flagship university. It's gonna cost some money to run this university

and to lead the university. Yeah, so compared to Kent Fox, who ran kind of a skeleton crew out of the president's office, he spent 5.6 million off the top of my head in his final year here. Total? Yes. Yeah. And then SAS in his first full fiscal year here spent 17.3 million. A three-fold, more better than a three-fold increase. And so your reporting helped lead to a state audit of spending under then President Sasse. The audit, I think, is preliminary still at this point. But you've been able to exceed some

of that preliminary reporting from the audit. What have you found? Yeah, so they found that the contract with McKinsey and Company, administrators couldn't explain how that benefited the university, at least $4.7 million of their services. And they found that a lot of his staffers were awarded salaries that were way above market rate.

They were offered excessive employment perks. Their event costs that were really high, including a $170,000 holiday party. There were a lot of travel expenses. What does a $175 thousand dollar holiday party get? Thirty eight thousand dollars in sushi. Okay, alright, there you go. Fair enough. And so this audit right now is preliminary that you've gotten to take a look at. What does, what potentially could it lead to? Any recommendations for changes? So the auditors did recommend a lot of policy changes to the university to put new guardrails on spending

out of the president's office. And the board has actually already implemented a lot of those. So any hires and consulting contracts over a certain amount need to be approved by Hissemi now. The chair of the board of trustees. Yes. Yeah.

And then another thing that the audit found was that SAS had spent over $300,000 to charter private jets with the University Athletic Association for trips. That included like $90,000 over 10 trips to Miami. So and the auditor said that administrators couldn't explain the business purposes of those trips. And how has SAS responded to the reports of the spending while he was president? Yeah, so we had reached him through a spokesperson

about five days before we published our report in August, and he didn't respond. And then four days after we published, he issued this pretty lengthy statement to X, kind of defending everything he did. So, to execute that big vision he had for the university, he was arguing that that would require a lot more spending in the president's office.

So, he had to hire all these deputies to manage these initiatives, you know wanted to expand AI here, wanted to implement UF K through 12 charter schools across the state, stuff like that. We got an email from Nicole who writes, I'm a parent of a freshman gator, learning about Ben Sasse's financial spending around the time I was paying bills for my child's housing angered me. He should be embarrassed and the fact that he is still a faculty member there who makes around one million dollars per year is offensive. So Ben Sasse left the president's office but he did not leave the institution here at the university.

Yeah, so he's currently teaching or co-teaching a course at the Hamilton Center here which is our civic center that started here about two years ago two three years ago he's still making a million dollars for that he also has a advisor position with Hussaini the Board of Trustees chair but those duties are kind of unclear. Nicole also writes finally I want a president who will be fiscally responsible. Ricardo has been listening and sent us this email I'm a lifelong gator, went to UF for undergrad, 88, grad school, 91. I'm also the father of a high school junior

who will be applying to the University of Florida pretty soon. Ricardo says, my hope is that the governor, board of regents, meaning the board of trustees, I think here, are chastised by their disastrous pick of Vensas. Hopefully they will allow for a serious non-political and transparent selection process and land on an experienced academic superstar who can navigate all of the changes and challenges of the

next decade. So Garrett Shanley with the independent Florida alligator, where stands the search for the next permanent president here at the University of Florida? So it kicked off officially in December, and they outlined a rough timeline during that kickoff meeting. They said that candidates should be named around late March or early April, but that interview process could be restarting.

So it's hard to know definitively when that's going to be finalized. And so talk about the transparency here on the search for the new president. There was a new law here in Florida in 2022 that really brought the curtains down on sunshine when it comes to not only knowing who is applying for these positions and looking at who the applicant pool is

and what the status of those applications are, all that is very vague right now. Yeah, so that law, it keeps things behind closed doors with presidential searches in Florida until the search committees narrow the field to three finalists, after which those are named, and then the public and the Board of Trustees can mull everything over. So with Sass that ended up with him being named as the only finalist, which kind of ruffled feathers with faculty and students here. And the

justification for this law was that the lack of transparency would allow higher profile candidates like a Benensass to put their name in the ring so that their current employer may not know or in the case of a senator their constituents may not know you're looking for a new job. Yeah, yeah so that's definitely the argument for that. The sponsor of that bill actually Jeff Brand is he stood by senator from Tampa yes yeah he stands by that justification for the bill he has said that you have kind of shirked his intention for that bill by naming SAS is the only finalist for that and the board of governors who oversee the state university system actually implemented a

new rule late last year which requires requires the Board of Governors chair to approve all finalists before they're named. And he pretty strongly indicated that if UF comes or any other university comes to them with one finalist, he's going to send it back to the drawing board. May sent us an email radio at the Florida Roundup. This is all started when Florida University presidential searches were not allowed to comply with sunshine laws. May says as politics creep in, I am withholding my donations to the university. Only economic harm will make a difference in this era. There is a bill, Garret, this legislative session that's

been introduced that would bring more sunshine to presidential searches here in the state of Florida for public universities and colleges. It's sponsored by two Republicans, which of course have a super majority in the state legislature in Tallahassee. Why do you think Republicans seem to be rethinking more sunshine, bringing sunshine, returning sunshine back to the presidential search process? Yeah, so I think that it comes at a pretty fraught time for university presidencies and searches. FAU had to cancel its search a couple years ago and restart from scratch because of issues with the process.

The FAMU president resigned last year because he accepted this botched $250 million donation from a hemp farmer. Which turned out to be not. I mean, the hemp farmer turned out to be real, but the money didn't. Yeah, it was all fraudulent. And everything with SAS has obviously happened. It's hard to know definitively why they want to do this. I did kind of comb news coverage of it, and the only thing that I've seen the senators that sponsored the bill say is that it had nothing to do with SAS.

So it's hard to know for sure. Nothing to see here. Garrett Shandley is a reporter and university editor at the Independent Florida Alligator. We're talking about Florida public university leadership searches. You can send us an email radio at the floridaroundup.org live across the state here from WUFT in Gainesville on campus at the University of Florida. Garrett, let's talk about this presidential search that is underway. What is the Board of Trustees looking for as they're looking for this next leader? So they recently approved a prospectus which is used to shop out the position to potential

applicants and includes this long list of criteria. So at the top of the list is somebody who has experience at a large research institution like UF. And also somebody who is going to be active on campus with the community. Very much a la Kent Fox. But it does seem like kind of a response or signal of buyer's regret with SAP. Who is very reclusive on campus. He struggled to form a relationship with students. Are there differences, as you've reported this out,

in what the board of trustees has said it is looking for in a president, and what other stakeholders might be looking for? And those stakeholders could be alum, could be donors, could be sports fans, could be donors, could be sports fans, could be researchers, could be faculty members, could be employees, could be students like yourself. Yeah, so the search committee held these listening sessions with different stakeholder groups

like students, faculty, alum, donors and when I looked at the prospectus it seemed like it aligned pretty closely with what they wanted. Somebody with research institution experience, somebody who's going to be active on campus prioritizes rankings. The one thing that it didn't do that I think all those stakeholder groups overwhelmingly asked for was to rule out any politician for the job. So Governor Ron DeSantis has certainly exerted influence over presidential searches and universities just generally in ways not really experienced before in Florida. New

College in Sarasota was entirely made over by President Richard Corcoran, who's a former House Speaker here in the state of Florida. FIU's new president is the most recent lieutenant governor here in the Florida. Florida Atlantic University's new incoming president is a former speaker of the Florida State House. What has the governor said about this UF presidential search? So last summer, a couple days after SAS resigned, somebody asked him a question about that. And he said he'd stay out and leave that all to the board. But reading into the tea leaves,

he's definitely been involved but on the other side you know with Maury Hisani in charge of the board the board here is particularly powerful so I think whatever decision they come to will be what happens with the UF. Give us a quick sneak peek in your reporter's notebook what are you working on? Oh no. Fair enough. Harris Shanley you've done terrific work and thank you for sharing it with us here. We really appreciate it. Harris Shanley, ladies and gentlemen, with us here on the Florida Rondiff is we're live

from WFT. He is the university desk editor and reporter at the Independent Florida Alligator. We got more to come, including the role the federal government plays in making sure we know what the weather is going to be. Enormous amounts of investments in technology and science and modeling we experience at each and every hurricane season here in Florida. Tim Miller, who is the chief meteorologist at the Florida Public Radio Emergency Network based here at WUFT, is going to be with us. Your questions, your comments, go ahead and email those to us radio at the floridaroundup.org,

radio at the floridaroundup.org. If you have any questions about what this hurricane season may bring Florida, let us know as well radio at the floridaroundup.org. Thomas Elaine is with us here, our guitarist and songwriter as we're live from Gainesville this week on the Florida Roundup from your Florida Public radio station. Stick with us. Thomas Elaine on guitar, live in our studio audience here at WUFT in Gainesville for the Florida Roundup on the road. Great to be in north central Florida. I'm Tom Hudson. Wonderful to be along with you. Next week on this program we're going to be talking about federal jobs in Florida, protecting coral reefs, protecting marine life, healthcare

services for veterans, hurricane researchers. These are just some of the federal government jobs filled by Floridians who have been fired in the name of efficiency. So what's the impact on Florida by cuts to federal spending? Now, if you or someone you know have had their federal government job impacted by the efforts of the Department of Government Efficiency, which is not an actual department, email us radio at the floridaroundup.org, radio at theflooridaroundup.org, radio at theflooridaroundup.org. We'd also love to hear from you how the federal government could save money in the Sunshine State. Do you see places where the federal government could be more efficient in spending its dollars? Radio at theflooridaroundup.org, and we may share your story next week on our program. This week, the federal government and weather forecasting.

Hundreds of people working for and with the National Oceanic Atmospheric Administration learned one week ago they were losing their jobs. This included dozens of people working here in Florida and several working on hurricane science. The federal government plays a big role in weather forecasting and communicating the dangers, including when parts of the Sunshine State are inside that hurricane forecast cone. And usually when parts of the state are inside that hurricane forecast cone is when I get to spend some time with Tim Miller, but not these days. Tim is the chief meteorologist at the Florida Public Radio Emergency Network.

Tim, welcome to the program. It's good to see you in a different setting for sure. Sunshine and blue skies here in North Central Florida today, right? Yeah. So I have heard that if you checked a weather forecast today, regardless of how anyone may have checked their weather forecast, you utilized some technology, science that's been provided by the federal government. Is that true?

That's 100% true. Whenever you go in the morning, the first thing you pick up your telephone, you look at your weather app and it tells you the temperature and then go in the morning, the first thing you pick up your telephone, you look at your weather app, and it tells you the temperature, and then look at the radar and the satellite. All of that comes from the National Weather Service, which of course is a division of the federal government, so absolutely. It was a chilly 47 degrees here in Gainesville, and for a kid who's from Miami like myself, I did not quite dress appropriately for what passes as early spring in North Central Florida. So what is the general role of the federal government when it comes to weather forecasting? Well the federal government's role is to provide the

National Weather Service with the funding needed to provide weather modeling for every National Weather Service office around the country. Not only weather modeling but also weather radar locations throughout the United States and we're finding there's a lot of holes with that as well. So that's become a problem. And a lot of National Weather Service offices over the years have closed or consolidated to cover multiple areas to save money.

So the role for the federal government is to provide that funding for the National Weather Service. The National Weather Service is the sole provider for weather modeling that television stations use and we use as well. Why did the system develop that way to have the central government play such a central role, the federal government play such a central role

in weather forecasting? Well, first off, weather modeling is very expensive. First off, you're talking satellites, you're talking the requirements that's needed into going to making weather models, right? The private sector doesn't have that type of capital to be able to do that, to where the federal sector does, of course, through tax dollars. And there also has to be one entity that's basically responsible for issuing watches,

warnings, and that type of thing, which that is what the National Weather Service is. Imagine if we all had the opportunity as meteorologists to issue watches or warnings, we'd all have a different opinion, it would be chaos. So that's why the federal government steps in. Not to make light of that, because I want to talk about the seriousness, but it's a little bit like for anybody who has a kid

and they may go shopping for an opinion between mom and dad. Can I go do this? Well, mom says I can, but dad says I can't, right? But talk about the seriousness Of having a centralized voice Particularly when it comes to the threat of natural disasters Oh, that's that's critical because you know again you're talking about meteorologists that are looking over and pouring over all types of data And it's not just from satellite models. It's it's buoys out in the atlantic

Into the gulf of mexico pacific. It's it's buis out in the Atlantic into the Gulf of Mexico, Pacific. It's also weather balloons. You know, it may be 2025, but we're still launching weather balloons that are critical for information. If you're driving down the overseas highway in Monroe County in the Keys, you may see a balloon in the lower Keys and it is a National Weather Service balloon that's tethered there. Absolutely. And that information is vital to us being able to make a correct forecast. And over the years, the technology, which again, the federal government's able to provide the funding for such a weather technology over the past, gosh, 50 years has been amazing, but even the last 10 has been amazing. Yeah, you've

been doing this for a couple of weeks, I think, in your career. How has that government presence kind of exerted itself as the technology has been able to leapfrog? And I'll ask you about the accuracy of some of that when we talk about the 2025 hurricane season coming up. But talk about a little bit of that change and what that may have looked like had it not been for the federal dollars and the federal support. Well, I mean, you take a look, you know, weather radar actually

started back in World War Two. That's how they actually discovered that. And then that applied. And we started doing these crude weather radars back in the fifties. And then with technology improving, we went to something that people know as Doppler radar. And then the radar continues to improve. And that radar improvement allows us to stay ahead of some storms Great example of this was Mayfield, Kentucky Just if you remember a couple years ago this monster tornado was headed towards Mayfield and we were able to track this on radar for over an hour

That I will tell that that tornado Literally saved thousands of lives being able to track that tornado, I should say, to where years ago, prior to having the capital to fund this new technology, we wouldn't have been able to see that except for a minute warning. But you're talking that people in Mayfield had almost an hour warning rather than just one. On the Florida Roundup from your Florida public radio stations. How are these technologies used by private industry?

Because there is a very robust private industry around weather forecasting and weather prediction. Both not only consumer oriented, right, in terms of TV programs and whatnot, but also big industries invest big dollars in weather forecasting. Oh, absolutely. In fact, there's, believe it or not, meteorologists are not just for television broadcast. Delta Airlines has meteorologists. The airline, the aviation agency has meteorologists, the airline, the aviation agency uses meteorologist all the time. Oil companies use meteorologist for their offshore

rigs and make sure the weather is fine there. I know that SRS, the nuclear facility down in Savannah uses meteorologist, they have a whole team of meteorologists. So it's amazing how meteorologists and even insurance companies use meteorologists in their line of work. And that information that they have and they gather comes from the National Weather Service. Very few companies, there's a company the public can go to called Pivotal Weather, right? It gives a bunch of information. That data comes from the National Weather Service. There's a few companies that have their own modeling. We have a company that we deal with called Barron. They have their own proprietary modeling system that is different from the National Weather Service. So we use them, but very few again because of the expense at that time. And so what about the presence, let's bring it back here to Florida and the importance of weather

in Florida. You are clearly, squarely an expert on that. What's the presence of the federal government investment in weather and weather predicting, weather forecasting here in Florida? Well, of course, the big one is the National Hurricane Center. The National Hurricane Center has the, where they've gone in the last few years is truly amazing.

Just a few years ago ago we had a pretty large storm out of the Gulf of Mexico. There were no watches or warnings along the coast because we knew through weather modeling and through our expertise, I say our as meteorologists but the Hurricane Center, I knew that hey there was not gonna be any problem. Dynamics were that storm was going to fade away. Years ago Tom there would be all types of warnings and watches unnecessarily. So for those on the Atlantic Coast, that came true in a real, uh, tangible way with Hurricane Dorian. If you remember Hurricane Dorian, which was threatening the northern Bahamas and did awful damage in Abaco

and other places, it took a sharp right turn and all but avoided Florida. And for those, you know, Palm Beach County, Broward County, St. Lucie County, less than a hundred miles away from this category five storm, blue skies, sunshine, and no warnings, no watches when it came to that kind of real severe storm. And there's a financial cost to that as well. Now had we not have the technology that we have today, let's say we did all those evacuations and warnings, think of the businesses that would lose money, the chaos and the panic and the anxiety that it would cause. Weather causes a lot of people to have

anxiety, so to be able to have the technology... Guilty. I know so many people call me and they say, Tim, what can I do? How can I be less anxious over the weather? Media doesn't help that at all. I might also add with that. But I mean, so, but because of that technology, Tom, especially here in Florida, it has been just a, just an absolute blessing for all of us. Tim Miller is with us, the chief meteorologist here at the Florida Public Radio Emergency Network headquartered here at WUFT.

We're live in Gainesville today for the Florida Roundup. Questions about storm predictions, about what the 2025 season looks like. If you have a question in the room, go ahead and raise your hand and go head on over to our producer, Grayson. We'll hear from you. Or if you have one listening, send us a quick email, radio at thefloridaroundup.org,

radio at thefloridaroundup.org. Last year's storm season was a big one for Florida. Three hurricanes hitting the state, two major ones. Let me ask you here as we shift into hurricane talk. A February report that came out of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration found that quote the National Hurricane Center's 2024 forecast track performance was its best in history. I would agree.

It's been tracking storms for decades, the best tracking performance in history last year. That is quite a statement. That is very right a statement. And imagine that and how important that is right for saving lives, saving property, and saving the ability to be able to not be anxious with the storm and for us to be able to track these storms long before they reach landfall. Yeah and to be able to prepare right? I mean that's the way to reduce anxiety is of course to prepare

absolutely yeah and wait sometimes but the waiting of course as said by others here in Gainesville is the hardest part. So the hurricane track performance best ever from the National Hurricane Center last year. The intensity predictions though were a little bit more wobbly. What goes into that intensity prediction which is increasingly important? We've seen it with Hurricane Michael, we've seen it with Hurricane Irma, we've seen it with Hurricane Ian and Helene and Milton, of course, in just the past season.

Yeah, there are several factors with that. And I mean, this is why, you know, weather is always fluid, right? It's never an exact science. And especially when it comes to hurricanes, there's many things and tropical storms and events that affect that, especially in the Gulf of Mexico. We have such warm water. I think of the Gulf of Mexico is like a cul-de-sac, right, if you will? Like if you're driving, you don't is like a cul-de-sac, right, if you will, like if you're driving, you know, you don't go to the streets. So here in April and May,

that cul-de-sac area just bakes under the sun and it warms up significantly. So the first storm that pops up, you're dealing with water temperatures and sometimes in the summertime, just even 10-15 miles off the coast, that could be 90 degrees. And it's that warm water, bathtub warm, that can immediately cause strengthening within a storm? It shows the difficulty here of the science. No matter how far it has evolved, there's still further to go for this. The intensity is a big piece of this. The story a year ago ahead of last year's hurricane season, among the big stories, was the warm water. The warm water in the Atlantic, the warm water in the Gulf. What's the setup? What are some of the meteorological conditions set up for this storm season?

That's gonna start well It is a little early for us to pinpoint exactly what's going to happen as the trouble with prediction They're about the future that is very very true. We often talk about La Nina and El Nino, right? Then we also talk about is it gonna be a El Nino year or La Nina Nina year Al Nino would mean warmer waters in the Pacific remember whatever happens around the planet We're all connected. So if there's warmer waters in the Pacific It gives us a different type of hurricane season if it's cooler waters La Nina gives us a different type of hurricane season for us right now We're looking at it. Maybe at this point a neutral season

So that gives us an idea where we could pretty much rather be on average. But one of the things I have to stress is I really want to stress this, and this is extremely important. I want everyone to forget this category business. This is category one, two, three, four, five. The only thing that separates a category four from a five

is one mile per hour wind speeds. Right, so does that really make a difference? No. So I mean, in fact, I've seen so much damage done by a Cat 1 hurricane that a Cat 3 didn't do. So, I mean, that's why I really want us to not worry about the categories as more so as the intensity of the storm and what the storm is doing itself. Tim Miller, Chief Meteorologist at the Florida Public Radio Emergency Network here.

I'm Tom Hudson. You're listening to the Florida Roundup from your Florida Public Radio station. So an email here from Mary who's listening in St. Pete, Tim. She asks, Hurricane Helene did not come close to hitting Tampa Bay, but it was devastating. Mary wants to know, should we be more worried about storm surge than the eye of the storm? Mary, that is a great question and I'm so proud of you for doing that. You get my junior meteorology award. Absolutely. Collect your badge on the way out.

Collect your badge on the way out. Storm surge is the number one problem with hurricanes. It's the number one destructive force. And what storm surge is, it is the storm just taking a wall of water and pushing it on shore, right? It's on shore like a brick wall, and the onshore is like a like a brick wall and the water is nowhere to go but up. So you're exactly right. In fact, storm surge

does more damage than wind. Yeah, believe it or not. So Mary, you're exactly right. Storm surge is the biggest concern, especially in the Tampa Bay area. And in terms of protection, it was always hide from wind, run from water. Right? Exactly. Yeah. I remember being just in the studio to our left, Tim, during one of the storms you and I were covering, I was helping. And we were talking about a storm surge prediction of 15 feet or so.

I'll get back to that in a second. But where are these predictions? Is that also coming from the data that the federal government winds up underpinning with sensors and other kinds of technology? You're 100% correct. All that information comes from the National Hurricane Center and all that comes from modeling. It comes from buoys out of the Gulf of Mexico and information that we get based on wind

flow aloft. All of that direction and speed of the storm, that's extremely important when it comes to storm surge as well. So all of that information, again, provided by the federal government through the National Hurricane Center. Susan was listening in Miami and was asking is this free it's free information. Oh absolutely yeah well yes well freely available freely available right it's not collected right yeah it's tax dollars pay for it it is free information and we have several models here that we use we have the GFS model which is called the global forecasting system that's the American And we have several models here that we use. We have the GFS model,

which is called the Global Forecasting System. That's the American model. We have the NAM, North American Mesoscale model. I'm getting all geeked out here with some. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then there's often people refer to the European model. European model's a very good weather model, and we often use that as well,

but the American model is getting some refund, some retuning. That's what I'm also concerned about, is if funding is taken away, we won't be able to re-tune our GFS model, which definitely needs some fine tuning. So I am concerned a little bit about that. So back to the storm surge communication.

I remember you and I had this conversation. And we were talking about 15, 20 feet. And we were talking. You said that's two and three story homes, so That I think makes that much more tangible for the Floridian preparing. Do I go do I stay? What do I do? You know to hear a 15 foot storm surge it can be kind of hard to understand what that means if you say that's as High as a two-story house then you understand right?

What would be interesting take a tape measure out if you can and do, you know, 15 feet. I don't even know if it comes out to 15 feet. And then think about a wall of water coming over you at 15 to 20 feet, I don't know, at an incredible amount of speed. There is no way you can survive that. And that's that's extremely important one of things that we do with with fprin Is to make sure that we bring that information to Floridians in a non Urgent way right it's important information not hyperbolic not exaggerate exactly right now breathless right? And there's so much of that and that's what scares people and that's that's what we're not a part of and I'm very very Proud of that as well. What's the one item in the

hurricane closet that you want to share with us? Chocolate bars, peanut butter, maybe a PBR after the storm passes by. The most important thing to store is water. Water is the number one thing you need to store. Yeah. Tim Miller, ladies and gentlemen, your chief meteorologist here at the Florida Public Radio Emergency Network. Thank you so much. Here at WUFT in Gainesville. More to come as you're listening to the Florida Roundup from your Florida Public Radio stations. This is the Florida Roundup. I'm Tom Hudson. We're live today statewide from WUFT Studio 2 here at the University of Florida in Gainesville. Thanks for being along with us Thomas Elaine Thank you for your guitar and your musicianship with us here in Studio 2 and we are off and rolling

It is a Friday. It is great to be with you on the Florida Roundup here in the Sunshine State Well, we have more freshwater springs than any other state in the nation There are more than 1,000 of them and they're dotted around, concentrated really here in north central Florida where we're broadcasting from this week. Rose Schnaibel is a reporter at our partner station WUFT covering agriculture, water, and climate change in the region and it really is a unique feature of Florida and particularly north central Florida. There's joy in these springs and some will argue and rightfully so that some of these springs

are in jeopardy. Lots of different pressures. So let's talk about this. The Florida Department of Environmental Protection says no two springs are alike. So describe what a freshwater spring in Florida is like for those of us who may not have visited one. Sure yeah so people get really creative with their metaphors for spring. They've been called gems, crystals, fountains. Basically you can imagine sort of a pool of turquoise water and then I like to think of it as a crater in the middle that kind of looks like you're going to the center of the earth but that's where the water is actually bubbling up from the Florida aquifer and creating that

pool of liquid gem. Why does Florida have so many of them? It's our geology. So where the water is actually bubbling up from the Florida aquifer and creating that pool of liquid gem. Why does Florida have so many of them? It's our geology. So Florida is built on limestone pretty much. And so when it rains, the rainwater is a little bit acidic and it goes through that limestone and carves out little pockets. People call it Swiss cheese.

So those holes over time get bigger and bigger and bigger until you have giant cave systems and those span throughout South Georgia and North Florida and that's really what we call the Florida aquifer. So as water moves through that aquifer it's going to find the path of least resistance and sometimes that's coming out of the ground and forming a spring. And so what role do these springs play in their own ecosystems and their environment? You can think of them kind of like a Brita filter. So if you have one in your fridge, you use it to filter water. And that's exactly what's happening with the Florida aquifer is that that rainwater is

falling, it's dirty, it's runoff maybe. And then as it passes through all those little crevices, it's becoming cleaner, it's taking out some of the sediments and contamination in it. And so the water that comes out in these springs is really clean and usually pretty beautiful. And that creates a great foundation for the ecosystem. Which also speaks to the quality here and the protection of the springs, right? So how well protected are these springs by regulations? It really depends who you ask.

So the Florida Department of Environmental Protection would say they're great. Some water quality advocates would say they're not. There are water quality and quantity rules in place, but Florida has really explosive population growth. So we need water for more people and that means more pumping. So some of the springs are in pretty bad shape. Rose, we've got a question here from an audience member. Thanks for being with us here live in Gainesville. What's your name? Ed Bresgen here from Gainesville. Great. Go ahead, Ed. On water quality and the interplay between the springs and agriculture, what kind of advocacy do you have both for maintaining the status quo

and for improving agriculture's contribution to maintaining that quality? and for improving agriculture's contribution to maintaining that quality? Yeah, it's a big conversation that's very much ongoing. There are partnerships between water quality advocates, researchers, and farmers, because agriculture does have a big footprint in our area. So most water goes to public use, public supply. Agriculture's second.

So there are some technologies that farmers are using, like soil moisture sensors so that once the water reaches a certain point in the soil, they can turn off and not be irrigating anymore. They're using time release fertilizers to try to mitigate how many nutrients are going to the springs. So there are measures in place.

I think a lot of people want to see agriculture's footprint lessened, not necessarily in scale, but in damage to the aquifer. It is a debate over quality of water, quantity of water, how much and who gets to use it for what purposes. There's a Springs Harm Rule that dates back almost a decade here in Florida, where the legislature said to the DEP, the Department of Environmental Protection,

come up with these rules and regulations. Where does this stand? Where does this process stand? Is there a harm rule in place? No, is the short answer. So they were, the DEP was ordered to make one in 2016 and now it's nine years later. They've submitted a few drafts. They've had public workshops, public hearings to get the public to assess if this was sufficient

and the feedback they've received is mostly that it's insufficient. So they're sort of back to the drawing board. There was some litigation that happened and they finally proposed a rule, but it has not yet been approved. On the issue of quantity, Florida spring water is sought after by commercial interests, by agricultural interests, and of course to support residents. Water management districts, as I understand, Rose, are the ones that issue the permits to commercial entities that can then pump the water out and

use it for resale, for instance, right? One of the... first of all, how does it make the determination of how much a commercial interest can pump out of an aquifer and bottle it for sale? Sure, yeah. So the five water management districts throughout Florida decide, they use scientists to help them inform what point are we taking too much water out, when does it become harmful to the ecosystem. And so they have measures for that, but those same water management districts have approved 99% of applications for water withdrawals in the past 40 years. So there's some debate as to whether they are protecting. What kind of pressure is population growth putting on Springs? A lot is the short answer. When

we see these new developments popping up in Alachua and throughout Florida really they're built usually on some ecologically sensitive areas so any runoff from your driveway from the sidewalks is it gonna percolate through the ground and ultimately get to the Florida aquifer so it becomes difficult to balance population growth and water quality. So describe how local governments are trying to find a balance here. What kind of decisions are they making? There are a few different strategies. Some of them is just rejecting certain development proposals, putting them on pause. I did a story last fall about a proposed 500-home development in the city of Alachua, and that's kind of been paused in the pipeline right now because cave divers were the ones to say, hey, runoff from this place is going to come straight into the caves that we love so much and it could harm. So to be

clear these caves are underwater? Yes yes underwater caves. You're diving scuba diving in freshwater in caves in Florida. Yeah it's pretty scary but pretty cool. Yeah so which brings us back to this So, which brings us back to this idea of springs in Florida. It is part of the state. It's part of the appeal, right, of the Sunshine State. Florida was thought to be the location of the Fountain of Youth by Ponce de Leon a few centuries ago. What is the relationship today between Floridians and their springs, do you think? It's one of love. I think a lot of people are really passionate about them. They

spent their weekends vacationing there. They had family barbecues and things like that. People were even baptized in the springs, so it can be a source of a lot of hope and joy for Floridians and something, as you mentioned, is very much a part of the culture. Everybody whose experience Springs either recreationally or commercially has a strong opinion about Springs I suspect. Right, whether to use them for bottling or for agriculture or for recreation. Rosh Nabal along with us, your climate change reporter here at WUFT covering agriculture and climate change. Thank you for sharing your reporting on natural springs here in the state. Yeah, thanks for having me. I'm Tom Hudson,

we're live from Gainesville WUFT member member station here on the floor to run it from your Florida public radio station. Finally on the round up this week, a little Gainesville music. Shelby Thomas Thomas Elaine here is with the singer, songwriter, guitarist who's been with us the entire hour. Here's footprints in the stone. Another day, another dollar spent, ramped in daydreams by the hour. Another tenant who stomped their feet, but didn't shake the ivory tower. I don't know that I don't walk alone Cause no one's leaving a footprint in the stone As far as I know

Another toke of blood and war until it doesn't hit the same. Another picture that never fits in the bezels of the frame. I'm pretty sure that I am on my own. I've never seen a footprint in the stone. Well, that's how it goes. When nothing ever happens anyway And love is just a word I've learned to say On the line it won't be the seat also Might that help me leave my footprint in the stone? Sure hope I'm going to be there for you. I'm going to be there for you. I'm going to be there for you. I'm going to be there for you. I'm going to be there for you.

I'm going to be there for you. I'm going to be there for you. I'm going to be there for you. I'm going to be there for you. I'm going to be there for you. I'm going to be there for you. I'm going to be there for you. I'm going to be there for you. I'm going to Thomas Elaine, everybody here live in Gainesville.

The Florida Roundup is produced by WLRN Public Media in Miami and WUSF in Tampa by Bridget O'Brien and Grayson Doctor. Grayson, thank you for being here and helping out with our live audience here at WUFT. WLRN's Vice President of Radio and the program's technical director is Peter Merz, engineering help each and every week

by the one Mr. Doug Peterson over here in the white hat. Thank you Douglas. Thomas Elaine singing and playing guitar. Great to have you along for the full hour Thomas. Big thanks to Randy Wright, Rob Harder, Corbin, Lorenzo, Taylor, the entire team here in Gainesville at WUFT. Thanks so much for all your hospitality and support. Financial support for the Florida Roundup on the Road is provided in part by Florida Public Media whose mission is to be a trusted, dependable, and welcome part of lives of all Floridians. Our next live in-person Florida Roundup, April 4th, put it on your calendars, WJCT Public Media in Jacksonville. We'd love to see you there in northeast Florida along the first coast April 4th wjct.org

to register April 4th in Jacksonville. I'm Tom Hudson. Thanks for calling, listening, emailing, coming out in person here in Gainesville and supporting public media all throughout the Sunshine State. Have a terrific weekend. Thomas Elaine play us out. Will you have a great weekend, everybody? Thanks for being here.