The Florida Roundup - Why some retired Floridians return to work, remembering Bob Graham and environmental news

Episode Date: April 19, 2024

This week on The Florida Roundup, we talk about how affordability challenges are forcing some older Floridians to return to work, with Tampa Bay Times reporter Lauren Peace (03:16) and further explore how retirement is changing in the state with Central Florida Public Media reporter Joe Byrnes and Anne Ray of UF’s Shimberg Center for Housing Studies (11:36). And we remember the life and legacy of Bob Graham with former Florida lawmaker Dick Batchelor (25:30) and later journalist Dan Christensen (31:42). Plus, a few environmental updates from across the state (37:20).

This is the Florida Roundup. I'm Tom Hudson. Thanks for being here this week. For decades, Florida has welcomed retirees to come live their golden years in the Sunshine State. Promises of good weather, plenty to do, and cheaper living have brought millions of older people here to spend their retirement. Whether you go for a lively workout on the courts or something a little less vigorous. This is from a promotional film about West Palm Beach back in the early 1960s, cutting between shots of people playing tennis and a group of older men playing bocce ball. Towns with names like Spring Hill, Sunny Hills, and Citrus Grove were developed throughout the 1960s, attracting families and retirees.

It's very active. It's an active retirement kind of a thing. It isn't retirement in the sense that they go down and just lay down and look at the sun. The retirement migration to Florida really picked up in the 1970s. The state's population of people at least 65 years old almost doubled during that decade. Which is Florida's most beautiful adult community.

Windmoor is what Florida living's all about. Sunshine, water, swaying palms, and lots of open space. More important. By the turn of this century, there were almost three million people over the age of 65 in Florida, and some of the fastest growing age groups were folks in their 70s and 80s. Where can you find Southeast Florida's most

luxurious retirement? The lure of retirement living in the Sun has helped make one area in Central Florida the fastest growing metro area in the country over the past few years. The village is Florida's friendliest hometown. It's your time. Even the ultimate millennial generation member, Taylor Swift, makes an oblique reference to Florida's perceived promise on her newest album released just after midnight Friday morning.

Little did you know your home's really only a town you're just a guest in. So you work your life away just to pay for a time shared down in Destin, Florida. There's one hell of a drug. But these golden years are not immune to the rising cost of living. And it has led some retirees to go back into the job market. In the past decade, the fastest growing age group of workers in Florida are people over 65 years old, and the increase of workers in their 70s is far faster than any other generation. Some may want to go back to work to stay active and engaged. Others have to go back to work to afford insurance and medical bills. What does it mean to be working well past the traditional retirement age? How has

the promise of the golden years here in the Sunshine State changed? Are you or a family member, a senior citizen, and still working or have gone back to work? Is it by choice or necessity? Call us 305-995-1800, 305-995-1800, or email radio at thefloridaroundup.org. Your calls and emails coming up. First, Lauren Peace is a reporter with the Tampa Bay Times who wrote about this issue recently. Lauren, thanks for your time. Who are some of these retirees in Florida who are going back to work after retiring? It is a wide range of people. It's people who have lived on the brinks their whole lives. And it's also people who have been in the middle class, kind of felt really healthy and where they were at with their income, with

their savings. And just as inflation has taken place, as cost of living has gotten higher, they realize that they can't get it anymore. Tell me about the Gessicks, a couple that you had reported on. Yeah, the Gessicks are a couple living in St. Petersburg. They moved here, like many do, to retire close to the water. They're originally from Colorado and have worked in Arizona. Larry, he is a 77-year-old Vietnam veteran. He worked as an electrician for a hospital system for a really long time. Joyce is a legal assistant. And so both of the Gessicks throughout their life

have worked pretty steady jobs and have fallen really sort of solidly into what they felt was the middle class. In 2021, they decided to fully retire. Joyce took early retirement. She was only 65 at the time. And Ligury was well into his 70s and was ready to just sit back and no longer work. And so they had sort of what they call seven months of bliss, seven months of the dream where they were hanging out with neighbors, they were golfing, they were going to $5 movie matinees, all had to replace appliances, these sort of unexpected just maintenance expenses sort of came into view, they looked at their finances and realized that they weren't going to cut it anymore. And so they both returned to work. So not necessarily an unexpected disaster that led to it, but just the general cost of living. So how does the reality of retirement in Florida compare with the expectation that an awful lot of folks have

had through the years? Yeah, it's changing. And it's not just nationally, but certainly Florida is interesting because we have historically been this sort of affordable haven for older adults who want to be by the water. In Florida, you know, we're faced with a few particular challenges right now, which is the influx of newer residents that we saw, especially during COVID and sort of the year post-COVID that sent housing prices soaring, right? So that was one piece of it. But the other part of it is you are prone to natural disaster. And so as such, there are unexpected costs that come with that. One is the insurance rates rising, but just basic costs of home maintenance to sort of ensure that you're as safe as you can be from these storms. And then the last piece of it is following the Surfside collapse, legislators

passed a bill to make sure that condos and homeowners associations had a reserve pile of funds to do building maintenance and repairs. And so in a really short period of time, we saw not only the spike in homeowners insurance costs, but also pretty hefty spikes in homeowners association fees. And for a lot of our older adults who live certainly in condos and in communities by the water, those were sudden expenses that they weren't prepared for. So as these folks are returning to the workforce, what kind of job opportunities are they finding here in Florida? Yeah, it's a wide mix. And I do want to just say some of the folks that I spoke to said, you know, I'm actually happy to be back in the workforce. So it's a split bag. Some are returning

because they have to, because they can't afford it. Others are working longer because they're living longer and because being in a workplace keeps them engaged. Coming back to your question, I think that the difference in experience is really dependent on whether or not they're working because they want to or because they have to. And so some people that I spoke with, they've been able to work longer because they're taking on remote work. It's not as physically demanding on their bodies. They can do it from the comfort of their homes, part time sometimes, too. But others are, you know, they're your cashiers. They're the people mixing your paint

at Lowe's. They're folks sweeping the floors at Target. I think any Floridian, you know, who is out in the world, look around next time you're sort of interacting with any sort of service worker and take stock. How about for Larry and Joyce? Where did they wind up going back to work? Larry's at Publix right now. He works the morning shift. He's averaging around 30 hours right now. So he starts at 530. He leaves his home and he works in the produce department. You know, it's hard on his body.

He's 77 years old. But I will note he's also grateful to have the job. He's like, it was not everyone will hire a 77 year old. And Joyce, Joyce was able to take a job doing remote legal work, similar work to what she was doing as a legal assistant throughout her career. But I will note she's being paid about half of what she was being paid in Arizona and Florida in her current role. Lauren Peace is a reporter with the Tampa Bay Times. Lauren, thanks for sharing your reporting with us. Thanks so much for having me. 305-995-1800. You can send us an email, radio at thefloridaroundup.org. Shannon in Jacksonville

sent us a note to that inbox writing the word retire sounds sad to me, like you're putting yourself out to pasture and resigning yourself to sitting on the sidelines of life. She continues, Shannon is in her early 70s, and I can't imagine not going to work. I enjoy being around customers and co-workers in a very age-diverse and culturally diverse environment. I don't want to watch life from the sidelines. I'm not into golf, RVs, or pickleball. She says, I know a lot of people who totally feel different and anticipate and enjoy retirement, but me, I'll be at work. Fred from Temple Terrace writes, I waited until 70 so I could take the maximum amount of my social security. At the age of almost 72, I'm still working full-time. Everyone keeps asking me, when are you going to retire?

My response to that is, in this economy? Fred says he's still making decent money. I get the benefit of employee-sponsored medical and dental insurance. All my social security is paid out in bills, so the job is the only thing providing me with money to live on. Fred says I just had a fuel pump put in my car to the tune of $900. Pretty discouraging when at 72 you have to keep on working that next paycheck to pay for food and gas. Rosanna has been listening to the conversation in Miami and very patient. Rosanna, you're on the radio. Go ahead. Well, I went, I retired at 67. And then the following year, I went back to work part-time for the school system.

I'm a school counselor. And they had a program that was a grant program that I could work part-time and that was perfect for me but then the grant ended and so I had nothing this year so I went back and did a yoga teacher training and now I'm considering going back again because it's very expensive to live the homeowner's insurance is outrageously expensive and anytime you want to do anything a little extra, like cost money for me to take my yoga teacher training. Sure. And anytime, you know, I want to travel or do something that's just beyond my day-to-day living, it's really hard to pay for that.

Yeah. And I'm young, still in, well, I feel young and I'm still in good shape. And I probably will go back. I have mixed feelings about it. Ideally, I'd like to just do whatever I want to do and be able to pay for it. But I'm not upset about the idea of working part-time. Have those little extras that I want. Yeah.

Rosanna, well, best of luck, be it either yoga teaching or whatever the next chapter may hold for you. A young 69 Rosanna there joining the conversation from Miami. Joe Burns is with us now, reporter at our partner station in Orlando, Central Florida Public Media. Joe, always a pleasure to have you and your reporting on. You report on senior living in Central Florida Public Media. Joe, always a pleasure to have you and your reporting on. You report on senior living in Central Florida. What have you been hearing about retirees either wanting or needing to go back to work?

Yeah, Tom, these are those inflation pressures that you've been talking about. Housing costs, insurance, rent, even though in the past year that's kind of for the rent has kind of plateaued. It's still really high compared to where it was a few years ago. You know, the daily expenses like groceries and health care, it just means that a lot of seniors need that additional income. They weren't planning on this. Yeah. We know folks are living longer these days. How is that impacting their retirement plans?

their retirement plans? Well, you know, I had a conversation with an expert with the Florida Council on Aging when they were talking about the sort of soaring demand for state-funded home care. The state's upped the money for that, but the waiting list is just incredible. You know, people retire to Florida with expectations. They think they've got what they need, but time passes, their resources dwindle, they have emergencies, health costs, and then there's inflation. And they find themselves sometimes in desperate straits. For low-income people, that can be devastating. For people who are starting out from a better point, they may have to go back to work.

Yeah. go back to work. Yeah. Just separately, just in terms of that demand of home health care services, I was just looking at some of the latest employment numbers in Florida that were released on this Friday, Joe. And over the past year, the number of jobs in Florida for home health care services has jumped 6%, one of the fastest growing industries in terms of job demand in the state, trying to service those folks who are in need of that. How is retirement, though, changing in communities that have built their identity around the golden years and retirement? You know, there's still a huge influx of retirees coming into those communities.

Like 11% of people moving from state to state to retire, 11% came to Florida. That's the biggest numbers. South Carolina is close behind. It's given some competition, largely because Florida's housing costs are so high. But there's reporting that current Florida retirees are actually looking into leaving the state because of those housing costs. So a lot of those communities are bringing in new retirees, but losing some of the older ones. Yeah, replacing the older retirees with newer retirees. Well, speaking of housing costs, Joe, Ann Ray is joining us. Ann is with the University of Florida

managing the Florida Housing Data Clearinghouse at UF's Schimberg Center for Housing Studies. Ann, thanks for your time today and for joining us. How vulnerable are older Floridians to these higher housing costs that Joe talks about? You know, so you've heard the term housing costs come up over and over again, just to put some numbers to it from the past few years. The median single family price in the state went up 60% in the five years. In the past five years, it's up to about $400,000. Median condo price is close to $300,000. And so people who are coming here now are stretching in a way that they weren't before. Median rents are up from about $1,100 to over $1,500. If you think about it,

a typical Social Security income, fixed income is $1,800 or $1,900 a month. That's eating up almost your whole check if you're getting a median rent. I think the other thing that makes people vulnerable is that people on fixed incomes need predictable housing costs. You've heard already about property insurance and condo fees going up. Another one I wanted to flag is increases in the rents on manufactured home lots. A lot of people who retire to Florida find an affordable way to live by they're owning a mobile or manufactured home, but it's on a lot that they're renting. And those rents have gone up too. Yeah. And so there's a concentration of our older population in Florida. A state report identified six counties in Central and South Florida that account for more than 40% of the total state population of folks over 60 years old.

So we're not spread across the peninsula and the panhandle, really concentrated. What challenges or benefits does that kind of concentration bring when housing costs are brought to mind? Well, most of the state's growth over the past couple decades has been in people and households headed by somebody age 55 or older. And we pick 55 to look at because that's the minimum age to live in an age-restricted community nationwide. So most of our growth is coming from people either who are native to the state and are

growing older or people who are retiring to the state. I think an opportunity it brings is to really rethink how we do housing and make sure that we're building housing that serves people at a variety of ages. Oftentimes people might be forced into a unit that's more expensive than they can afford because it's too big and that's all that's out there. So I think one thing we need to think about is how to build homes that are smaller or smaller apartments and units. Most older households are made up of just one or two people in places that are accessible for people with disabilities and also thinking about how we weatherize and make that housing climate safe. Let's go back to the phone calls

here. We're still with Ann and Joe and Ray with the University of Florida. Joe Burns, reporter with our partner station, Central Florida Public Media, and Ken in Pompano Beach has been waiting patiently and listening in. Ken, you're on the radio. Go ahead. Wow, he caught me off guard. Sorry about that, sir. Go ahead. Another problem, your show on the radio now has nothing to do with this show that I'm listening to. I'll be 80 years old in April, and I'm living on $1,100 a month in Social Security. We're all responsible for our actions, and we're all responsible as a result for the conclusion. I had no insurance. I worked for myself, and an accident made me disabled.

And so it works out that after I pay my bills, I have nothing left. Insurance, car insurance is killing me. Fortunately, I live in a Catholic housing project, for lack of a better word, that makes my rent reasonable. And you're considering going back to work, Ken, is that right? Yeah, I can't live on $111 a month. Yeah. I just can't do it.

My car insurance, they want $125 a month, and I never drive. Gasoline costs me almost $50 to fill up a tank. Food is out the window. And they just today, they found out that I was eligible for $23 a month in food stamps. Yeah, I have to go back to work. But it's who you know, not what you're capable of doing. If you have the right connections, you can find work. If you're an isolationist like I am, you have to rely on the market,

and there are not many jobs out there, A, where they want to hire you because of your age, and B, that are high-paying that will help you, because every time I go to work, my rate goes up. Ken, I've got up against the clock here, but I really appreciate you sharing the story from Pompano Beach. I know it's going to resonate with a lot of folks, and we wish you the best of luck in that job search. Ken years old considering going back to work to be able to pay his bills we've got more to come here on the florida roundup from your florida public radio station this is the florida roundup i'm tom hudson thanks for listening we are talking about retirement and going back to work in the state of Florida to tackle the higher cost of living.

Home insurance, home association fees, car insurance, dentures, medical costs, driving some retired Floridians back into the job market. Others willingly going into the job market to remain engaged. We're talking about it here on the floor to round up and Janelle in Jacksonville sent us this email. I'm a 74 year old senior still working 25 hours a week teaching piano and playing in a church. While caring for my father and nephew in their last years, I was mostly unemployed for three years except for a few accompanying jobs here and there. I then became eligible for Social Security, so that helped some. Some previous jobs had no retirement plans. I think that we need to look at some kind of assistance for caregivers. of Florida. Joe, talk a little bit about the point that Janelle is talking to about aging, but also being a caregiver for perhaps an older generation and the challenge that that brings

when looking at retirement and looking at one's own financial picture. picture. You know, one of the things I've seen in that is, so these, say, older children of a much older adult, they spend their time being a caregiver for that person as that person ages. That's time they're not working, that they're not saving for their own retirement. And that really affects them as they themselves go into retirement they don't have the resources they haven't saved up and that's a really big issue when it comes to retirement planning and ray with the University of Florida how does that affect some of the shelter considerations that that so called sandwich generation perhaps may be experiencing. And to the point that we heard earlier from the caller in Pompano Beach about isolation in retirement for seniors.

Sure. So, you know, people really need a steady income in order to maintain their housing costs. One thing about housing is that that's a bill that you have to pay in full every month, whether it's your rent or your mortgage and your utilities. Those are things that you have to keep up with. So certainly not having a steady income can be difficult. Also, I think there's just a real change between what housing costs in the past and what it costs now. I think it's important to remember that Florida was a relatively affordable community, an affordable state 20, 30 years ago. You could come here, purchase a home or a condo, and have some pretty predictable housing costs going forward. Now with the kind of unpredictable costs that your guests and the callers have talked about, and of course it's not like other things are slowing down to make up for your housing costs,

groceries or car insurance or anything else, you really need a cushion in order to be able to meet those unexpected costs. And as you've heard from people, that's becoming increasingly difficult. Yeah. We got an email from Marie in Delray Beach saying, I'm 73 years old, finding it very hard to be working in a low-paying, demanding job. I want to do a good job being a part-time activity assistant in an adult memory care facility, but it exhausts me and the money that I make doesn't go very far. My body at this age needs a lot of repairing, which comes at a high price. For instance, my teeth have worn down due to a lifetime of wear and tear. I had to pay $28,000 to repair them. Joe, how about these medical costs, these healthcare costs, and the impact that they have on retiree budgets?

You might think that Medicare would take care of it, right? It doesn't take care of a lot of the issues that seniors face, especially as it deals with dental care. There's a special program that Osceola County has set up to provide dentures to senior citizens who can't afford them. And that's an example of the type of thing that addresses those types of needs. But that's just one small spot in Florida. Throughout the state, seniors growing older with dental problems don't have the resources to get the care they need. And just picking up on the point of some local assistance or local programs that Joe mentions regarding dental care, for instance, are you seeing any experimental

type of programs at the local level in Florida as it relates to senior housing, housing assistance, and really going after that cost, that affordability challenge that really has grown over the past many years? Yeah, there are a couple things, and they're actually longstanding programs, not necessarily experimental. So they presumably seem to be working? Anne, you still with us?

Yes. Yes, so those programs longstanding, they seem to be working then, I suspect. Yeah. So one is a gentleman mentioned earlier that he was having trouble with his other costs, but because he was living in affordable housing development, the gentleman from Pompano Beach, he's able to pay 30% of his income for his housing. And that's because presumably he's in federally subsidized housing with deep rental assistance. So something we have in Florida that's special is our SHIP program, which is state housing funding that comes to local governments so

they can meet local needs. And many times those are going to individual homeowners for rehab, to make homes more accessible, to build ramps for weatherization. And typically a lot of those funds will go to older longstanding homeowners. Anne Ray is with the University of Florida, the manager of the Florida Housing Data Clearinghouse at UF's Jimberg Center for Housing Studies. And Joe Burns, reporter with us at Central Florida Public Media in Orlando. Anne and Joe, thanks so much for sharing your thoughts on this issue. Much appreciated. You bet. Thank you. sharing your thoughts on this issue. Much appreciated. You bet.

One other big story that happened this week is a story about Bob Graham. Bob may have been the ultimate Florida man, certainly in the last half of the 20th century. Born in South Florida, raised on a cattle and dairy farm on the edge of the Everglades. He started his political career in 1966 here in Florida when he was first elected to the state house. A little more than a decade later, he was governor. And after two terms, he served half a generation in the United States Senate. Graham died this week at the age of 87. Dick Batchelor is with us. Dick is a former Florida State House representative who served with Senator Graham back in those days in Tallahassee. Dick is also author of Building Bridges in Toxic Political Times, a Roadmap for Community Leaders. Dick, welcome to the program and thanks for sharing some memories of your friend and the former senator. Senator Graham was known for his genteel manner, certainly not a pushover, though. He was called a statesman. How did he treat those he disagreed with? He was very, number one, he was very informed, obviously a very bright person. He grasped the

issues and would not advance a proposition unless he fully understood it. So he was kind of disarming to the extent that when he met with somebody, let's say a Republican colleague or a conservative Democratic colleague from the Panhandle, he could disarm them to a degree because he had a full grasp of the issue. But also I would say that combined with him, his kind of a diplomatic approach to things, he didn't go in looking for a fight. He was not incendiary by any stretch of the imagination. So I think his knowledge, his grasp of the issue, there's an appreciation for that when you approach somebody who might be a potential adversary,

but also somewhat disarming in his approach, his diplomatic approach. How did Senator Graham describe his brand of political compromise? How would Senator Graham describe his brand of political compromise? Well, he basically said that his goal was, he always kept the end goal in mind. And then so that gave him not only focus, but also real drive to get things done. But he would have some adversaries. I was at a meeting with him one time when Senator Red Baron, another person of notoriety in the Florida Senate, I was there for a meeting on some legislation I was sponsoring. Governor Graham was sitting at his desk.

Senator Baron, Senator Red Baron, they used to call him, sat on the top of the governor's desk, facing towards us with his back to the governor. And, of course, that was an attempt to basically intimidate Governor Graham. Sure. But Governor Graham, again, a testament to the way he handled things. He kind of basically continued the conversation with the rest of us who were engaged on his behalf on this certain piece of legislation. on his behalf on this certain piece of legislation. But that could be intimidating, having Senator Red Baron sitting on your desk with his back to you,

but it was not intimidating, I don't think, in the least to Governor Graham. He was gentle. Now, some people say that he was too soft, too bookish, too wonkish, but it served him well. As a final note, to that point, when he left the governor's mansion, his popularity was 83 percent. Almost unheard of then, and we have never heard of that, and we'll probably not hear it for some time to come. We don't see approval ratings of half that amount these days for executive political leaders. Senator Graham, as I mentioned, you know, raised on a cattle and dairy farm, known for his work days around the state, as you mentioned, known for his real touch

with people. But an Ivy League educated lawyer, he had the goods when it came to legislating. Yeah. And he served in Florida when it was dominated by Democrats as a Democrat. He served in Washington, though, with Democratic and Republican presidents, both in the majority and minority in the Senate. How do you think that that his his ties to Florida and rural Florida and his Ivy League education came to play in both of those? and his Ivy League education came to play in both of those. Well, again, it's interesting that he was able to walk and straddle both of those lanes, if I could put it that way, you know, being a gentleman farmer, so to speak, the coast of Miami Lakes before it became a city, Miami Lakes, obviously it was a cattle farm and a mining area.

And so he had that background, but obviously with his Ivy League university background and education, he came really with a lot of currency, a lot of political currency, I would call it that, when he came to the arena. So I think it was respected. But the last point is that because of his background in agriculture and all, he could reach out not only across party lines, but across divisions with his own party and speak on behalf of the farmers and he had a lot of a lot of support for the agricultural community and i think the one reason for that is because agricultural entities or people are traditionally

conservationists and what he did with everglades and other land conservation programs, I think was a testament to his support and appreciation for raw land and conservation, preservation of land in Florida, the natural environment. Some of the obituaries this week mentioned how as a kid he would shovel manure on the farm, and I suspect he probably encountered plenty of that in his political career as well. I started to say as a former member of the House of eight years, I've shoveled my share of manure. I appreciate you sharing some memories of the late Senator Bob Graham. Dick Batchelor has been our guest, former Florida representative, author of the new book entitled Building Bridges in Toxic Political Times, A Roadmap for Community Leaders. Now, in his final years in the United States Senate,

Bob Graham really led Congress's joint investigation into the September 11th terrorist attacks from 2001. And he remained very involved in that investigation years after. Dan Christensen is with the Florida Bulldog and did a lot of reporting with Senator Graham through the years and reported extensively on the 9-11 terrorist attacks and the connections in Florida. Dan, welcome back to the program. Nice to see you again. Hey, good to see you. What motivated Senator Graham to remain focused and involved in the 9-11 investigation even after he left the Senate? Because he saw what had happened. And when he was the head of this, or co-chairman of the joint inquiry into 9-11, he didn't get the answers from the FBI that they expected to get. They had to go out and get them on their own. They had their own investigators

find things that had been denied to them by the FBI. And later on, after I got involved in this, which wasn't until 2011, he was just so entrenched in the story, he wanted to know everything about it. And it wasn't just that. He was on a number of other commissions, the one about the Deepwater Horizon. The oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico. Yeah, and also another committee about weapons of mass destruction. He was on the CIA advisory board. He was a guy who knew his stuff because he'd been the head of the Senate Intelligence Committee. Yeah, he was plugged in for years, certainly,

and he pushed for more disclosure, more transparency regarding the 9-11 attacks, and as you mentioned, really kind of got crossways with the Federal Bureau of Investigations. Oh, absolutely. He was, excuse me, he was, I mean, he fought with them literally from the time that he was on the Joint Inquirer, which is back in 2002. And continued when he was a private citizen then as well. It's one thing to have a U.S. senator do it, another thing to have a private citizen. Yeah, absolutely. You know, he could have come back and retired, but that just wasn't him. As his wife Adele told me, he failed at retirement, and he did because he was just involved in everything, and he just stayed that way, you know, as long as he was able. There was a story about he had long retired from the Senate

and he flew to Washington to visit some grandchildren, I think. And he was with his wife and they could get off the plane. And the FBI asked the then former senator to come into a quiet private room for a conversation. Correct. That's what he told me. He told me all about it because he was surprised to be met at the, you know, he was going to visit his kids. Yeah. And he gets met at the airport. They take him into this room and they basically end up telling him that, hey, look, there's nothing to all this stuff. You know, get a life.

He literally said this. The deputy director of the FBI told him to get a life. And he had a life, a pretty good one. Yeah, he had a pretty good life, certainly, that we're remembering today. It was the passing of a former senator, former governor Bob Graham, speaking with Dan Christensen of the Florida Bulldog, who did a lot of investigative work with Senator Graham into the 9-11 terrorist attacks. What was he after? Did he ever achieve some of the disclosures, some of the redactions that were in the reports originally years later finally came through? Yes. Did his questions ever get answered to his satisfaction?

Not all of them, but a lot of them did. And he pushed to get information to the public that had been censored before. In particular, there was what they called the 28 pages, which was part of the joint inquiry's final report. It was censored by the executive branch, essentially the CIA. And for 20 years, years approximately it stayed secret and it had to do with Saudi involvement in you know 9-11 so he knew this Saudi involvement that was to some degree centered here in Florida yes quite a lot of it was centered here in Florida and he he kept pushing to get that out. It finally came out in, I think it was 2019.

And it showed that, among other things, that the Saudi ambassador to the United States, Prince Bandar bin Sultan, you know, had connections to a lot of terrorists. They had his phone number, personal phone number, in their phone books, that sort of thing. How do you think that Senator Graham's 9-11 work figures into his legacy? I think it's a big part of his legacy because he was just, he just bored in on it constantly. And he would call me, he'd want to know what's the latest information that we got you know are there new documents that have come out you want to read them I'd send them to him and you know I just think that that was the mark of a true leader not a politician but a leader and that's what

Bob Graham was I think he ran for for president and he didn't go very far mainly because he had a habit of taking notes of everything and he got ridiculed for it unfairly and that's one of the reasons he sort of got out. But he would have made an excellent president.

And stayed in the Senate for 18 years before retiring and passing away this week at the age of 87. Dan Christensen with the Florida Bulldog. Thanks for remembering Bob Graham with us today. Hey, Tom, thank you. You're listening to the Florida Roundup from your Florida Public Radio station.

This is the Florida Roundup. I'm Tom Hudson. A few stories about the environment this week now. We'll start under the water with coral reefs. When an ocean heat wave hit Florida last summer, we heard a lot about unusual efforts to rescue coral before they began bleaching. But it wasn't the first time coral were pulled off the reef, running from St. Lucie down through the Keys to the Dry Tartugas. Just four years ago, scientists removed coral as lethal stony coral disease spread. So how are they doing?

Well, Environment Editor Jenny Stoletovich with our partner station WLRN in Miami gives us a coral wellness check. At SeaWorld in Orlando, the Coral Lab is set to Key West time. Our lighting comes on at the same time as the lights in Key West. They turn off at sunset at Key West. Justin Zimmerman is an aquarium supervisor overseeing the Florida Coral Rescue Center. We've been able to basically condition the corals to believe they're in the wild, to have the same moonlight cues, the same sunrise and sunset cues, and we've been very fortunate to kind of crack the code of finding how to spawn corals. Because corals time reproduction to moonlight, they're still making babies and thriving.

SeaWorld is one of 20 zoos and aquariums around the U.S. tending to healthy coral pulled from Florida's reefs as the disease spread. Most of the SeaWorld coral have now more than doubled in size. They're doing so well that the theme park expanded its original lab and set up a second. 20 years ago when I started, I never thought we'd be at this point where we're rescuing corals. It's wonderful to be able to provide that care, but at the same time it's concerning the change that's been happening. Stony coral disease was first detected off Virginia Key amid the Port Miami dredge in 2014.

It affects reef-building boulder corals. Scientists still don't know what's causing it, but they found it could be spread in sediment. So dredging in ship traffic could make it worse. They also found the disease can survive in ship ballast water that gets dumped at ports. The sad thing is that this disease that started in Miami has now spread throughout the Caribbean. It's also made its way across the Gulf Stream to the Bahamas and south to Mexico and South America. Meanwhile, in Orlando, as scientists continue to look for a cause and a cure, a bunch of

coral set to Key West time are biding their time until they can be returned to the wild. I'm Jenny Stiletovich in Miami. Jenny also has been reporting on a story that doesn't have such an upbeat chapter, the mystery that's been sickening and killing endangered sawfish. More than three dozen sawfish have died since the mystery began five months ago. Over 50 other species have been showing signs of distress, and state officials say they are no closer to figuring out what's going on, but they have ruled out a lot of possible causes.

What we have found is that it does not appear that what is affecting the fish directly is of human origin. That's Nick Parr. He's with the Florida Department of Environmental Protection based at the Florida Keys National Marine Sanctuary. He was speaking to the sanctuary's advisory council. Now here's what they discovered. Fish exposed to water from the lower keys start to show signs of distress within 20 minutes. But once removed from the water, they can get better. The 11-foot male sawfish rescued this month off of Cudjoe Key is recovering under a vet's care, according to C.J. Sweetman with the Florida Fish and Wildlife Conservation Commission.

So it's not all doom and gloom here. It's in a tough situation, but recovery is possible. That small-toothed sawfish from the Keys is getting treatment at a Moat Marine Lab rehab facility in Sarasota. Michael Crosby is the president and CEO of Moat. We have great hope and expectation that our approach that's using good sound science and veterinary techniques is going to be successful with this animal. We're very hopeful of that. Now, state health officials have not recorded any illnesses in people or issued warnings, but they say it's still a good idea not to eat fish showing signs of distress or swim in water with dead fish. From the seas surrounding us to the land now, citrus greening disease has

devastated Florida's citrus industry for decades. But as Kristen Moore reports from our partner station in Gainesville, WUFT, new research is looking into a possible solution and getting mixed reactions from growers. When Ben Bateman first started growing citrus, he did it to remember his childhood. You could go anywhere in Brandon and be walking around and there'd be a citrus tree like hanging over the sidewalk. And if you were hungry, you could just grab some fruit because it was everywhere and it was falling on the ground. His favorite thing was the smell. It seemed like the entire town smelled like orange blossoms. He started a small grove with a few dozen citrus trees,

but in the mid-2000s, a blight swept over the state. Huanglongbing, more commonly known as citrus greening, is a bacterial disease that infects citrus trees. It's spread by an insect called the Asian citrus psyllid. Lorenzo Rossi is an assistant professor in the University of Florida Horticultural Sciences Department. It's like malaria for humans when you have like a mosquito that when he tries to bite you, he's also transmitting something to you.

He says farmers noticed citrus trees planted under big oak trees were doing better at fighting off greening than those that weren't. In 2020, Rossi and his team published a paper in the Journal of Plant Physiology and Biochemistry. They sprayed a tea made with fresh oak leaves and water on infected citrus trees. Compared to the control group, they found the tea significantly improved a tree's chances of overcoming greening disease. Bateman says he stumbled upon a similar solution by accident. A neighbor was trimming their laurel oak and making mulch. Normally, mulch isn't recommended for citrus trees, but Bateman was desperate.

But I thought, you know what, I'm just going to build the soil, and if the trees survive, great. If they die, that's the direction they're headed anyway. As the mulch began to break down, the trees started improving. But not all farmers had the same experience. Steve Crump is the owner and manager of Vaux-LaSalle Farms in DeLand and a fourth-generation citrus grower. Currently we have 40 acres of citrus in production and of that 100 percent is infected with greening. He says as greening began to take hold, it devastated the industry.

My personal production in our orange groves is down 80 percent from 15 years ago when greening started. Quality of the fruit's down. It's really sad and depressing and discouraging. He's now looking into growing his trees in huge indoor screen houses and injecting them with a bactericide called oxytetracycline. Rossi is currently working in conjunction with the USDA trying to isolate what it was about oak leaves that had a positive effect. He's also trying to make this work on a larger scale. How can producers, growers utilize this discovery in a way that is sustainable? Crump is hopeful that Florida citrus will find a real solution. An orange tree that's resistant to greening.

I'll be 58 next month. If we can get a resistant tree before my career ends, then I can plant it for the next generation. Bateman is less optimistic, but is trying to hold out hope for Florida to return to the booming citrus haven of his childhood. I'm Kristen Moorhead in Gainesville. And I'm Tom Hudson. You're listening to the Florida Roundup from your Florida Public Radio station. And finally on the Roundup, Bob Graham, the former Florida governor and U.S. senator who

passed away this week. He is one of the inspirations behind this very program. I spent several hours with Senator Graham here on the radio talking policies, politics, and people. Our first time on the air together was a few weeks before the 2014 gubernatorial election. Two governors were running against each other at the time. Rick Scott was hoping to be re-elected. Charlie Crist had switched parties from Republican to Democrat. He was running for his old office, but in a new political party. Now, the two candidates met for three debates, but it was their second debate that is remembered. Ladies and gentlemen, I am being told that Governor Scott will not join us for this debate. Governor Scott first refused to come out and debate

Christ because Christ had a small electric fan in his lectern. Ladies and gentlemen. Scott came out after seven minutes and the debate went on. Now, Senator Graham was one of our in-studio commentators that night. We invited him to help make sense of the issues and positions of the candidates. But it was that electric fan and the failure of Governor Scott to appear on stage on time that dominated attention after the debate. You know, Florida has supplied a lot of the material for late night comedy shows. I think we've just given them a lot more material.

Senator Graham was also our guest two years later on election night 2016. Donald Trump will carry the state of Florida. 29 electoral votes, they go to Donald Trump. Donald Trump will win the state of Florida. Donald Trump will win the state of Florida, according... It is my high honor and distinct privilege to introduce to you the president-elect of the United States of America, Donald Trump. Graham, of course, was a Democrat. He was disappointed, but not surprised, Florida went for Trump. A few days after that election day, Senator Graham was back with me on the predecessor of this very program.

Graham was clear-eyed back then about what led voters to support Trump. People felt that they were being overlooked, disrespected, not listened to, and they saw Donald Trump as a voice for them, that he would be someone who had listened to them and would listen to them, and that their concerns would finally be met. After that program, we were in the hallway outside this studio saying goodbye to one another. Senator Graham thanked us for the opportunity to hear from you, the audience, and encouraged us to continue with the program as a model of civic engagement and journalism in our diverse state. Well, we haven't always succeeded, but each week we continue to try to achieve what Senator Graham said in his last words on the radio that afternoon. We need to lower the rhetoric.

many harsh words, not enough thoughtful discussion about things that are really going to be important to the American people. Wise words to remember, regardless of your political party. That is our program for today. The Florida Roundup is produced by WLRN Public Media in Miami and WUSF Public Media in Tampa by Bridget O'Brien and Grayson Docter. WLRN's Vice President of Radio is Peter Meritz. Richard Ives is our Technical Director this week. We get engineering help each and every week from Doug Peterson, Charles Michaels, and Jackson Harp. Helen Acevedo answered the phones. Our theme music is provided by Miami jazz guitarist Aaron Leibos at AaronLeibos.com. If you missed any of today's program, you could download it, listen to it, and share it by going to WLRN.org slash podcasts. Thanks for calling, emailing, listening, and above

all, supporting public media in your community. I'm Tom Hudson. Have a terrific weekend.