The Food Medic - S10 EP3 Hiking, cold water swimming, and mental health with Zanna Van Dijk

Episode Date: October 15, 2023

In this episode Dr Hazel is joined by Zanna Van Dijk - she’s a co-founder of Stay Wild, a sustainable swimwear brand, a Forbes 30 under 30 entrepreneur and a lifestyle blogger with a passion for active travel and the outdoors. This episode covers: Zanna’s evolution on social media and on her blog over the years Her passion for hiking and advice for those looking to start Open water swimming and how its transformed her mental health The societial pressures of being a woman in her 30’s Fertility, egg freezing and having children Maintaining and making new friends as an adult Zanna’s struggles with mental health and what she’s doing now to support herself To find out more about Zanna (including her hiking and travel guides) head over to https://www.zannavandijk.co.uk/Interested in more content like this? Check out www.thefoodmedic.co.uk Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Hello everyone, welcome back to the Food Medic podcast. I'm your host as always, Dr. Hazel. Today I'm joined by someone who I've known for many years now and actually met through social media and have remained friends with over the years. And while this guest was highly requested by many of you who also follow her online, this episode feels less like your typical podcast episode and more like two gals just having a chat about fitness, hiking, fertility, babies, female friendships and mental health. We're both quite open and frank in this episode, which I think a lot of you are really going to enjoy. Our guest today is of course, Zanna van Dyck, who is co-founder of Stay Wild, a sustainable swimwear brand, a Forbes 30 under 30 entrepreneur and a lifestyle blogger with a passion for active travel and the outdoors.

I don't think her bio does her justice as she does so many other things and wears so many other hats, which we get into in the podcast. As always, if you are enjoying listening to the podcast or any of the episodes, it would mean the world if you could take two minutes to leave us a review and a rating, as it really does help us reach a wider audience. Let's jump in to today's episode with Sanne van Dijk. Sanne, welcome to the Food Medic podcast. I'm so excited to be here. I can't believe it's taken this long to get you here, but I feel like it's better we wait it because we've got more of a story to talk about. We've got so much to talk about. I know.

For those of you listening who don't know, me and Zanna have been friends for eight years? Nine years. Nine years. Nine years. Back in the first early days of social media. And I would just love to start there because I've seen you grow from afar, but also really close up as one of your best friends. And like I, you kind of grew up on social media. Like you spent most of your 20s on social media. My whole 20s.

Yeah. And you started as one of the hardcore fitness girlies as I did I did start from the beginning for everyone who doesn't know your story I will try and do it quickly because it has been like a decade-long journey um but yes so I started sharing my fitness journey online at university my second year of university and I was just sharing recipes and then Instagram developed to do 15 second videos so I started doing workout videos. Was it only 15 seconds? Do you remember it was 15 seconds you had to like try and cram a whole workout into 15 seconds. Oh my god yes. That was very stressful. On like four times speed. Four times speed. So yeah then I did fitness

content and then as I left university I became a personal trainer so I actually studied speech and language therapy and was going to be an SLT specialising in stroke rehabilitation but by the time I finished uni it was the dawn of the influencer world and the opportunities that were coming were quite exciting and it was a whole new industry Hazel was there at the same time as me we were all just like what on earth is going on and I just thought this is a once in a lifetime opportunity I'm just going to move to London become a personal trainer and give myself one year to see if this works out I said to my parents please don't be disappointed Helen I'm going to move to London and give this a go just trust me and within one year I was you know fully qualified

PT working in the gym earning a good good salary off doing that and also through social media I'd signed a book deal started working with brands all these fun exciting things were happening and yeah I feel like I was very lucky right place right time but also did grab the opportunities that came to me and then since then it's kind of evolved quite heavily I went from being like hardcore bodybuilding fitness vibes to more lifestyle active lifestyle then it went kind of vegan hardcore vegan for a while and then that was intense and then here we are and I'm more hiking outdoors and getting fit to climb mountains and achieve achieve things in the outdoors so it's all maintained that underlying thread of fitness and well-being but it has evolved massively over time yeah in terms

of how that presents itself you know yeah absolutely I think like fitness has always been like the main thread but it's become like more holistic over time yeah and for any friends listening it's very reflective of your actual life I mean that was also reflective of your life back then but like we said the thing is your interests will evolve over time and if you're someone who has like a personal page and a personal brand naturally your content's going to change over time and you know that that's happened for me it's happened for so many people I know as well but sometimes it can be hard to let go of that like former self or there might be some fear of judgment or people you know feeling like you've changed or you're pivoting too much have you how did you find those pivots in kind of

your content yeah I totally agree and I think we've discussed this before a lot of people who follow you online may assume that authenticity comes from consistency and from staying the same and if you've said something once they will hold you to that statement for the rest of your existence when in reality I believe that authenticity comes from constant evolution constant change because I've been online for 10 years if I was the same person as I was when I was 20 years old at 31 years old there would be something wrong and I should go and get help for that because I should be growing I should be evolving I should be changing and my opinions are gonna my opinions are gonna change as I learn and

grow um so yeah it has been a lot to navigate such huge development online but luckily the people who followed me and stuck with me over time have been really accepting of my ever ever changing journey so I think the most important thing is you just stay true to yourself and reality is my audience is growing up with me so if they were 20 when they started following me they're 30 with me now so what I'm sharing now might be more relevant to their current journey as well and people come and go every day people follow you and they unfollow you so if I'm not right for you anymore they can leave and I might be right for somebody new today because of the way that I've changed yeah yeah I love that and I think how you've put that in that people think if you change it's inauthentic and we just had that conversation

in the park before recording this um but I think that also holds true for like people in your life like friends and family you know your friendships will evolve over time and you may have had the same interests when you were teenagers. And that's something that you and I talk about a lot is how friendships evolve. And you and I actually are closer now than we were nine years ago because we've, I guess we've landed into a place in our lives that really like align and our values really align. So I'd love to like chat to you about like female friendships because you out of all the people I know you put so much time into your friendships like is that intentional do you like in your head are you like I need to see so and so this week so and so next week yeah I feel like

I'm somebody who if you know me you know that I really value my friendships and we've discussed this before that like in the hierarchy of relationships friendships can be put at the bottom of the pile for so many people but for me they're really near the top I just feel like friends are chosen family you choose your friends you choose your people that you want to spend time with and they align with you on so many things so I want to spend time with my friends I also feel like they make me thrive I'm somebody who I used to think was an introverted extrovert but I'm actually definitely just an extrovert I definitely just really enjoy being around people so for me it's I very much make a conscious effort to see people on a regular basis so when I see someone I'm like let's put the

next plan in let's put the next plan in because if we don't this is adult life guys friendships as an adult it's like okay I'll see you in six months on Tuesday at 6 30 p.m for half an hour if we don't put it in now it's not gonna happen so it's a really really high priority for me that I make time for my friends and I put conscious effort into my friendships and the main reason is just because I really enjoy being around my favorite human beings um so yeah I just make a conscious effort to see them the people that I really care about every single month at least yeah do you get that feedback from people who follow you online do they do they kind of note how much time you spend with like friends I think people often comment on like how do you make new friends or how do you maintain your

friendships there's no there's never really comments of like wow you're so socialist just like how do you maintain all these friendships you know I'm like I just put a lot of effort in I'm very proactive the word that I would use to describe myself in many facets of my life is proactive yeah so with my friends I'm like Hazel can we put a date in um Ollie can we put a date in Sophie can we put a date in I want to put a date in the diary I want to make plans with you because I care about you and I want to see you and if we leave it too long we've got just too much to catch up on you know there's too much tea to be spilt so no I mean it's true and I like as one of your friends I really value that because it's true in that like especially once you fall

into a romantic relationship um it's very easy to kind of put that at the top and then put family next and then put friendships next and like that's the thing is like all your relationships offer different things and kind of nourish you in different ways. And you have to give them all time. But as someone who's like I moved from Ireland when I was 18 to Wales and then when I was 26, I went from Wales to London. And so I've like moved so often and had to make new friends every step of the way. And that can be really challenging especially when you're an adult I don't know why it can be so uncomfortable because you don't really

just like it can kind of come across a bit weird if you just like stop someone in a coffee shop and you're like hey yeah like unless it's like you're hitting on someone it can be a bit strange so like but you you are very good at meeting new people and making friends as an adult like for people who are listening who are maybe in that situation they've moved cities move country what's your best advice for meeting new people or making new friends the main thing is just being open um I think a lot of people have this sort of clones of mindset of like I've already got enough friends I've got my people I don't need more people in my life as soon as you open yourself up to I'm open to meeting people I'm open to new friendships new people coming into my life I feel like that changes your whole mindset on any interaction that you have so whether you're

going to a new gym class or if you're going to a golf club like my fiance then you go in with this mindset of like okay this is a community that I can tap into these are people that I can make friendships with and I think it's also about being unashamed so saying when you meet someone you get on well just saying oh we got on really well like do you want to go do another workout together or do you want to go and play around together do you want to go get a coffee together and just asking the worst thing is they say no like it's really not the end of the world but I'm just so not ashamed to ask if I meet somebody and I click I'm like oh should we do a co-working day? Should we do this? Should we do that? Because I like you.

So let's just hang out. And the worst thing they do is they say no. But I just think, just ask. Just ask and don't be afraid of being rejected. Like, it's not the end of the world. Yeah, I love that. I love that. I would love to pivot and talk about hiking because I think in, you know, even on this

podcast, when it comes to fitness, we're always talking about running. We're always talking about strength training and like for some reason like hiking's just not really it's not always put in the category of like kind of strenuous activities but oh my gosh if any hike I've ever done with you has been some of the hardest workouts I've ever done but also some of the most enjoyable ways to like move your body like honestly that first hike that we did was in Tenerife and remember we reached the summit and my response was to like laugh hysterically because that was my first emotional reaction to such an incredible view yeah and I came back and I told David and I was like honestly like there is a reason why Zanna

hikes so much because that's euphoric it's pure euphoria and I'd love to just kind of find out like when did you start hiking and like how did you get into it because it can be for a newbie it can be kind of hard to know like where do I start how do I find new hikes how do I plan hikes what do I need so when I first started hiking that happened on i was on a road trip um with my partner and we did this massive hike by accident we went to do a short hike by the way guys i was carrying a michael kors backpack and wearing um just like my adidas stunsmiths at this point i did not know no gear i know that i know the backpack it was the studs that was the one i was carrying um so i added our

stan smith's and michael kors backpack and went for this nice big hike in yosemite national park had no idea what i was doing and um we ended up hiking like 22k in a day because we just kept being like oh let's just extend it let's just extend it by the end of the day i was like that was the best day we've ever had together we both still look back now and say that was one of the best days of like our lives together we just had the most incredible views we loved it so much and that was the day that I truly fell in love with hiking and I said to aunt my partner I really want us to hike more I really want to do this like it's it's a workout it's physical activity but you're out in nature you're like immersed in the outdoors and it's so rewarding you get this as you said euphoric

high from seeing these stunning views like you get this immediate reward for the effort that you put in you put in the effort you do the hard climb you get to the top and you're like wow that was just so worth it and that fitness does translate to other parts of your life so when I've had a hiking trip I come back and that fitness that I've built translates to running translates to other cardiovascular training translates to my my leg strength so it is benefiting you if you're somebody who's new to hiking i would say that the best thing to do is one get some good hiking gear don't go in your michael kors backpack i would say like have a backpack with a waist strap maybe have some comfortable shoes don't do it in jeans wear like active wear just get your basic active wear out and a supportive backpack and some good supportive shoes with ankle support um and then i

would say pick a hike that is appropriate for your fitness levels so a lot of people will just go in and be like let's do a massive challenging hike yeah you're not going to enjoy that and you're going to get a bad taste in your mouth for what hiking really is so go in with something that's appropriate for your experience with hiking appropriate for your fitness level and you're going to have the most incredible time and hopefully want to do it again and again and again and then yeah in terms of finding hiking routes there's amazing travel guides online like mine because I do write up hiking guides for lots of destinations but also you can just buy guidebooks so for example if you're going to Chamonix or any of the French

Alps, Swiss Alps, Italian Alps you can just buy a hiking guidebook for that area and use the hikes in there they'll rank them by different difficulties. There's also loads of guides online. There's hiking maps you can get. There's so many resources. And I've written up a lot of guides on how to start hiking as well. But ultimately, I do think it's a beginner-friendly sport. I think it's a beginner-friendly activity because you can just go and do a 5K hike in the mountains that's pretty flat. And you'll still get the most incredible rewards.

So I do believe that hiking is pretty much for everyone so don't be afraid to give it a go yeah I completely resonate with that and agree with you like I think there are so many levels and you know most people can do it and you can kind of start as kind of basic as you want and you can get to the most challenging bikes as well and you get mental and physical benefits this is the other reason why i love hiking because you're not only physically challenging yourself like it can be really really brutal when you do a hard hike but mentally you're getting like so much clarity you're getting to be out in green space out in nature and often you're hiking with someone and you get to connect with them and have really insightful conversations there's just

guys there's endless benefits to hiking so just lace up your boots and get out there, all right? Yeah, yeah. How many, do you know how many countries you've hiked in there? I don't know how many countries I've been to in general, but I don't know how many countries I've hiked in. You've hiked in so many. Yeah, I feel like it's how I travel now. Yeah.

Because when you start, when you start to really get into hiking, you start looking at destinations differently. Like I might have never gone to Slovakia before, but then I'm like, oh, they've got some really nice mountains in Slovakia. So I'm going to go there. Okay okay new question where's the your favorite place that you've hiked in the Dolomites Hazel you love that you know you go back every time yeah every year and you're like there's so much more to do so the Dolomites is a mountain range in northern Italy guys it's super easy to get to that's absolutely stunning and there's really good hikes for all

abilities in terms of somewhere that's like really exciting and different there's an area in Mexico called Monterrey um they call it the city of mountains hardly anybody goes there I'm sorry that I've just burst the bubble for people who want to keep it secret but you should totally go hardly to be there I feel like it's going to be huge in a few years so yeah Monterrey in Mexico is stunning for hiking yeah so yeah and Zanna actually just got engaged in the mountains. I did just get engaged in the mountains. That was just so thoughtful of Ant as well. He did it very, very well. I was like, Tony got the brief, you know?

Yeah. He got the brief. So definitely check out that Instagram pic because it's incredible. It's elite. We love that. When does fast grocery delivery through Instacart matter most? When your famous grainy mustard potato salad isn't so famous without the grainy mustard. When the barbecue's lit, but there's nothing to grill. When the in-laws decide that, actually, they will stay for dinner.

Instacart has all your groceries covered this summer. So download the app and get delivery in as fast as 60 minutes. Plus, enjoy $0 delivery fees on your first three orders. Service fees, exclusionsions and terms apply instacart groceries that over deliver another thing that you love a form of movement that is like less conventional is open water swimming which i also think can be quite daunting to get into i for one really dislike being cold and wet so this is why I've never come with you even when we were in Tenerife I was like no I'm not knocking in the water it's too cold and you're like Hazel this is Europe but like how did you get into it in the first place

I was thinking about this I don't actually know how I initially got into it I think hiking and cold water swimming really go hand in hand because when you're hiking the mountains there's so many beautiful bodies of water whether that's lakes waterfalls rivers and I just wanted to swim in them because they're so beautiful and I started doing that regardless of what season it was and then I actually think it's when COVID happened and we couldn't travel and I started doing a lot more UK travel and then hiking and swimming in the UK and doing a lot more cold water swimming because of that and I was like this is actually so enjoyable for me I mean it's painful but it's great yeah um and then I started regularly cold water swimming towards

the end of last year as in I started going three or four days a week down to a little river a little muddy river in Surrey and swimming it sounds so appealing guys going swimming in the mornings and I did it all the way through winter I swam 26 days in January in a freezing cold river in like minus two degrees and I just got such an amazing feeling from that cold water swimming I think for me it's like a sense of mental clarity mental calm like you can't be anywhere else except in your body when you're cold water swimming like you are you are nowhere else your mind is just there in that moment and you're dealing with all the stimuli and you learn that like if I can manage this stress this physical physiological stress that I'm going through right now in this water I can manage any stress that life throws at me so I feel like cold water swimming for me is yeah as

much a mental thing as it's a physical thing and there's like a group of you that do it as well yeah me and my like all ages most of the ladies are in their 60s which i love me and my girls um yeah we go for a nice morning swims together it's very very wholesome i love that i hoped i want to get you down there one day i know i know i think like if i just brave it i will be fine it's more like i overthink these things we should just do it spontaneously one day and you don't have time to think about it yeah yeah when it's like 30 degrees out like when there's heat wave in london oh yeah it's a good time to do it but one of the things you mentioned there is like how good it is for your mental health and everyone i know who does cold water swimming says that like it's i think when you do expose

yourself to stress be that exercise be that cold water be that kind of any kind of physically demanding thing it does kind of prove to yourself that you can deal with stresses of life and you've been really open about your mental health this last 12 months just over and gone through a really hard time and we're not going to go into that today but I know that you've really worked on like building in daily practices into your life and have mastered what works for you. And I'd love to talk about that a little bit. What do you think for you are the essentials for helping keep you grounded and helping with your mental health? Well, I think the main thing I want to say is if you are actually having a really tough time with your mental health, go and get professional help.

For me, it's really important to have psychiatrists psychologists like a full team of people there for me but besides that like the the skills and the tools that I've learned to use cold water swimming I have to say was a massive one and it was like a real crutch for me in a dark time and I yeah I went 26 days in January which is one of the hardest months of my life so I'd say yeah cold water swimming was really really important to me and still continues to be although I have done a little bit less than summer because it's just too warm right now oh I like it when it's super cold and then meditation and mindfulness which I know people don't like to hear like meditation just isn't that exciting it's not that glamorous you don't get immediate gratification but it's just

so important and I actually think and this is perhaps controversial but for me and my journey I think that I actually worked with a mindfulness coach that helped me more in many ways than some of the more clinical work that I did just because I feel like I just had to come to a place of acceptance of what I was going through and I was just fighting my whole mental health experience and mindfulness helped me be like it is what it is yeah it is what it is release control so mindfulness meditation and that not very exciting stuff I think that's actually the most important thing and that's been a pillow in my life which I've maintained ever since so I meditate every single day I meditate on the train on the way here today I don't let that slip um so yeah I think

besides that uh there's also just being outdoors getting out in nature and I also realized that I as I said earlier I'm an extrovert and I think being around other people and feeding off other people's energy massively helps our mental health and me and you we both work in quite isolating jobs where you work for yourself you work at home you're on your laptop all day you don't really have a team of people that you share an office with it's just like you and I realized that isn't the best for me so I've really made a conscious effort over the past year to co-work with other people be around other people during my weekdays and not just on my evenings and weekends even if I'm just sat next to somebody working but just not being on my own all the time I think that's like massively helped my mental health. And I think it's having that self-awareness of

what makes you feel good, because it's not always the traditional things that you think are going to help mental health. I know exercise has been really important for me. Eating well has been really important for me. But these are pillars that I've always had. And I think when I went through my mental health challenges initially, I was like, I'm already nailing the essentials. I kind of felt like I was looking at myself like, what am I doing wrong here? Like I'm already exercising regularly. I'm always already like training, eating well. I was already meditating at the time, but just not doing things consistently. And the main issue for me was I wasn't managing my stress levels.

But now I've also implemented working four days a week which was a huge huge huge change for me like you know me I'm somebody who in the past was very much a workaholic and I think it's also about realizing those boundaries and what you're capable of and for me it's also been a case of re-identifying myself and realizing I'm not that person who works every weekend who works every evening who doesn't close the laptop I can't be that person anymore and I don't want to not that person who works every weekend, who works every evening, who doesn't close the laptop. I can't be that person anymore. And I don't want to be that person anymore. And it's not good for me.

And finding that new version of myself took time and was a process. But now I feel like I'm feeling pretty at peace. I'm like, OK, I understand. Like, this is this is me. These are my new boundaries. These are my new limits. And these are my new practices that I have to have in my life to maintain my mental health and they are a priority not an afterthought anymore I think self-care was an afterthought for a really long time

whereas now it's like that goes in into my diary every week and it can't be compromised yeah yeah I think you raise a really important point though and like I remember back to when we had initial conversations about this and you were like I don't understand why this would happen to me because I eat a really balanced healthy diet, I exercise every day, I look after my mental health and it just goes to show that you can be doing everything perfect. And sometimes life like throws us a curveball. Oh, yeah. And that it's so important to like have those things that like bolster us and support us. But I think sometimes in the whole like mental health self-care narrative, sometimes that only goes so far. Yeah. And it can't always save us. us you know I think we almost think we're like superhuman you know I think I thought I was limitless I was like I can just do everything

I can do it all and it almost became my fitness and well-being elements of my life my training my nutrition everything was almost another thing to take another task to do another stress on my life like well I have to get my workout done today I have to cook my healthy meal today I have to do this today whereas now I feel like my perspective has shifted and that's just kind of core pillars in my life and I've kind of removed all the stress so it doesn't feel so stressful to keep up with my health and well-being but actually it can be a stress on you to maintain those aspects of your healthy lifestyle when you're juggling a bazillion other things in your life so yeah actually in the in the beginning of when everything kicked off for me I had to exercise less I had to almost reduce some of the things that I thought were good for me

because I just needed to slow down completely yeah and just stop which is actually really hard to do it is especially when you're someone like you who like is constantly on the go yeah but I do think it is it's quite like personal as well isn't it it's quite like individual of what you find reduces your stress levels and like what works for you but I'm so glad that you've kind of found you've kind of like fallen back into this like really easy well what looks like an easy routine for you what you find enjoyable and it's not like a stressful thing for you and let me tell you I tried everything I you've seen me over the past year I was like I'm gonna do acupuncture I'm gonna go to a samba I'm gonna

go to a moon ceremony I'm gonna like I literally tried everything I was just like throwing things on the wall and seeing what stuck and then eventually I settled on like okay I know what my core principles are of what actually makes me feel good but I almost went into a state of panic of like I must manage my stress and then I was like oh actually it's just the basics yeah it's just the basics and it's actually just doing less I almost went into this gut reaction of add more in to make to make me stress less yeah but actually I just need to do less of everything yeah do less of everything that's so powerful and having that realization i mean for you when all of this started it was literally the weekend of your 30th birthday and so like convenient timing and now you've you've just entered your 30s and i think as someone who turned 30 a few years ago um so many

people ask you the question, like, how does it feel to be on the other side of 30? And to be like a woman in her 30s seems to have this huge meaning behind it. Like, you should have all these kind of milestones ticked off and it should feel a certain way and you should feel a certain way, like this urge to be maternal,

this urge to be a wife, this urge to settle down. And did you feel all those things? No. like urge to be maternal this urge to like be a wife this urge to settle down and um did you feel all those things no I know you didn't I know you didn't but you know me I mean I did get engaged this past year yeah which makes me feel like okay I'm properly adulting now but what I've realized is internally in me I'm not feeling this urge to slow down and settle down yet but I look around me and everyone around me is starting to do it and I feel like maybe once everybody else starts to slow down I will want to slow down a bit it's also perhaps the London bubble of everybody just keeps

going going going but as my friends start to get married as my friends start to have babies as my friends start to do those things maybe I'll be thinking okay it's my time but I don't internally feel an urge to slow down yet I feel like I'm only 31 I'm still a young spring chicken I've still got so much stuff I want to do before I really settle down um but getting married yeah that's happening that's happening next year which feels like a big move but internally guys I just don't even feel like an adult so yeah no I'm the same I think like I definitely feel like an adult but I'm not I think there's this fear of like letting go of like independence or my current life or freedom and like I know that that's not what's going to necessarily happen but it's a different lifestyle it you have. It's a different lifestyle.

And when you and I have both been very independent women for a long time, and still are, the idea of giving that up can feel like a sacrifice. And so it's something that I always talk about with my partner, and you and I have always talked about it. Even when we are married, we want to be able to do independent things I think that's so important to like go on those solo trips go on those trips

with your girlfriends go on those trips with the other friends but there's you know sometimes it feels like there is a race to tick all those boxes yeah there is but I also feel like I don't want to engage in that race and you don't want to engage in that race but do you feel am I allowed to ask you questions do you feel a maternal urge like in your 30s right now I see myself as a mother at some point but it's not right now like right now there's no powering to be a mum but I froze my eggs because I'm 32 with low fertility levels and I don't want to wake up when I'm 37 and think oh damn I should have done that I should have frozen my eggs and so I guess like you know people listening might think she's so privileged that she can make that decision and yes I am you know it it requires like a financial sum of money yeah to be able to do that and and also like forethought you know because this is a conversation that more and more people

are having and maybe 10 years ago if I wasn't in that conversation or my friends weren't having those conversations maybe I would have chosen not to do this but I guess you know it's a it's not something I'm willing to rush because I don't want to get myself into a position where I regret anything and sometimes like I feel bad that I don't have that like deep pang to do it right now when a lot of my friends are doing it but I think it's hard to feel that pang when you have a really intense career that's also fulfilling and very engaging to be ready to take that step back and slow down in your career I think that's what I find the most challenging prospect yeah is maternity leave yeah and having to shift my role within my job within my career within the teams of people that I work with that's what I find the most challenging I like the idea of having a family

and having a child but it's how do I do that and be a businesswoman and can you actually do it all is it healthy to think you can do it all is it sustainable to think you can do it all yeah these are questions that I'm constantly asking myself and trying to work out but I think it's been really inspiring to see you talking about your egg freezing journey and I've actually had lots of conversations with people saying that they found you sharing that really inspiring for them and made them think that it's something that they can do um because they want to have children a bit later yeah so I think it's been really valuable that you've shared that you know thank you but I and I I agree with you because you know there's a lot of narrative around you know your

clock is ticking especially as a woman because men just don't have that like if we're being really realistic men don't have that reproductive ticking clock yeah even though I hate that term and so if you are in a position to freeze your eggs it does give you a bit more freedom to make those choices at a time that you feel more comfortable to do it and it was down, like one of the best decisions I've ever made. And it's given me a lot more like mental freedom and mental clarity and less pressure on my relationship as well for us to like speed things along because of, you know, our age. And I think more and more people need to have those conversations.

But a lot of people are afraid to have those conversations, especially like on an online public platform. It was quite terrifying. Yeah, I was so proud of you for just going out there and sharing that. But I think it's helped so many people. So definitely the right thing. Yeah. I mean, I love I love that you and I can have these like frank and open, honest discussions. And it's one of the reasons why we have such a close friendship, guess i hope we've got a friendship relationship but it's you know not not all friendships or

people feel like they can have those conversations out of fear of judgment and so not all of your friends will feel the same about you and i've got so many friends who feel very differently to me when it comes to these things yeah um and i'm sure there's a lot of people listening who feel different but a lot of people who resonate with these conversations as well yeah yeah um well we just we have to acknowledge that we've definitely come from a position of privilege that we can even be having these conversations of choosing when we want to have children and assuming that we are able to have children um and that it's going to be an easy journey yeah like we have absolutely no idea how it's going to unfold for us when the day eventually does come that we do start to potentially try to

have families i mean it could be really challenging so yeah here's hoping that we actually can get the future that we want to have i know with our boys yeah so well let's wrap it up there but i do have actually three more questions for you which is uh hit me up wrap up questions that we ask everyone if you had an extra hour in the day how would you spend it you know i'd actually probably spend it stretching uh it sounds so niche but something i've been talking to a physio recently because i'm doing so much hiking and i'm feeling it in my body i'm putting a lot of impact through my joints it's like doing lots of long distance running you know i'm hiking like 20k a day when i'm in the mountains a thousand meters of elevation like it's a lot to put your body through and he just said a lot of

people don't consider hiking as exercise so therefore they're not stretching they're not like prioritizing their recovery from it so for me I feel like I'm now trying to make a really conscientious effort to prioritize my recovery from hiking and from all exercise so if I had the next hour in the day I would spend it stretching and focusing on my recovery because it's really hard to cram that into your life yeah no it is it is something that everyone kind of like overlooks or skips especially if you're time hungry like skip the stretching part but it's so important okay you're going to a desert island what three things are you bringing with you okay my fiance my cat and who's called Bellalla and lots and lots of tony's chocolate which hopefully

doesn't melt maybe maybe a fridge tony's chocolate in a fridge um it would be the plain milk and the red wrapping i'm just so basic og classic chocolate but i can't go a day without i have chocolate every day of my life i just can't imagine being on desert island not having my day chocolate i'm the same and like for context anytime me and zanna are together we've always done this we'll always finish our evening with a herbal tea and dark chocolate yeah salted dark chocolate what's one thing that you're grateful for today you you and our friendship and asking me to come on here i'm really excited to be on and just be able to talk about all these really important conversations and just yeah it is it's so nice to be able to have these conversations and throughout the podcast we were mentioning things that you do in terms of like

your social media and your website but we haven't really like made reference to that so if people do want to find all these incredible hiking guides and everything and you've got youtube as well oh yeah where can everyone find all of the things just at zanna van dyke so zanna v-a-n-d-i-j-k that's me and yeah i share lots of hiking guides travel guides workouts like how to get strong to hike mountains all that sorts of good stuff and just some lifestyle content as well just me and my cat so yeah come and join and you also do loads of hiking trips so if anyone anyone wants to join you, like worldwide hiking trips. Yes, group hiking trips all over the world, whether that's Vietnam, Colombia, Sri Lanka or the Dolomites, all over, come join me.

Amazing. Thank you so much for coming on the podcast. Thanks for having me. Okay, everyone, that was Zanna. If you're keen to join her on one of her hiking trips or access her guides, you can find them over on our website, which we'll link in the show notes below that's all from me see you again next time