The Food Medic - S10 EP4 Breaking the menopause Taboo with Davina McCall

Episode Date: October 23, 2023

In this episode Dr Hazel is joined by presenter, fitness guru, author, mother and “accidental” activist Davina McCall This episode covers Becoming an “accidental activist” in womens health Davina’s experience of the perimenopause and menopause Fears and misconceptions about HRT Davina’s pill revolution documentary How Davina’s fitness routine has evolved after the menopause Davina’s partnership with FoodSpring and the importance of protein after the menopause Interested in more content like this? Check out The Female Factor which shares advice on how to stay healthy after the menopause. Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Terms and conditions apply. Visit bmo.com slash theiporter to learn more. Hello, everyone, and welcome back to the Food Medic Podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Hazel Wallace. I'm a medical doctor, nutritionist, PT, author, and founder of The Food Medic. Today I'm joined by presenter, fitness guru, author, mother and self-proclaimed accidental women's health activist Davina McCall. We chat all things women's health from the menopause to the pill and I honestly could have chatted to this woman for hours. One of the conversations we have is regarding HRT and I just want to quickly speak

to you about that because I love that we're having this is regarding HRT and I just want to quickly speak to you about that because I love that we're having this conversation as HRT is very effective for the relief of menopausal symptoms and it also provides some other benefits. However I just want to be clear that it's not completely risk-free and it's not unfortunately suitable for everyone. I know this is deeply annoying when people sit on the fence about things but this is just one of those things where there's no one-size-fits-all approach. So with my doctor hat on please do have a discussion with your own doctor to make sure it's suitable for you and they can check through your options and check you have no medical reasons that prevent you from taking it safely. Cheeky plug but I do cover this specifically in my book The Female

Factor and also offer nutrition and lifestyle advice for women who are going through the perimenopause and the menopause so make sure to check that out. Now grab a cup of tea because this is a chunky, inspiring and powerful episode that I know you're going to love. Davina, welcome to the Food Medic podcast. I've got my cup of tea I'm ready for a chat it feels like the first day of autumn today actually there's been a real yeah it does doesn't it yeah so I don't blame you about your tea um first of all I just want to thank you for all the work that you've been doing in women's health with your documentaries your books the conversations you're having online it's not an easy space to

navigate. And I think it's amazing the work that you've been doing. Why do you think this is like, obviously, it's very important to you. Why does it feel so important for you to do this work? Yeah, it's weird. You know, I've sort of coined a phrase for myself which is like an accidental activist I'm not naturally somebody who wants to put her head above the parapet I don't really I've never really wanted to be a spokesperson for everybody people might find this a bit weird but I'm more of a sheep than a leader I want I don't want to I like following people and I love people that do activism for me. So I wasn't kind of intending to get all riled up about women's health and, you know, this is going to be my mission. It was sort of an accident.

But what happened was through my own inability to navigate my perimenopause when it started because I didn't know anything. I just struggled so much in those three years. I lost myself. I completely changed as a person. And I thought, this is really bad when it's going to happen to, it's 100% going to happen to 51% of us. And we still know relatively little about it. There's still virtually no research going into women's health. I mean, on any level, and I'm sure we'll talk at some point about, you know, periods, the pill. At any level, it's still like the Wild West. We know nothing, really. And the doctors still don't learn about

the menopause it's not um something that every med school teaches still and i it may that actually makes me angry and i'm not really an angry person i don't kind of get riled up like i said but i feel like actually this isn't okay and i can tell you if I'm getting riled up then it's really bad because I'm quite an easygoing person but this isn't okay and it's got to stop and that's why I think it's what keeps me going and it's what made me do the first documentary which was kind of the big time when people were like oh she's talking about the menopause I've been doing it behind the scenes quietly in a kind of small way on my socials but this was a big statement and that was me saying right okay something's got to change and I need all of you on board like let's all do this together yeah and I think like mentioned, your own personal experience probably pushed you into that direction.

But when you start uncovering the facts, like how little funding goes towards women's health, how little health professionals know about the menopause, the menstrual cycle, it can be quite outraging. You just feel like it's not justified. I definitely feel like that. And I would love to just speak briefly about your own experience of going through the menopausal transition, what you experienced, maybe what you didn't expect and how things are now that you know everything that you do know, the knowledge that you've gained through doing the documentaries. I mean, you're right. And I tell you, the other thing that I think it is, is it's just disappointing. I think that like, it's like, really that kind of feeling? Because you think we've gone quite a long way in terms of equality, or we've definitely gone a long way in having our

voices heard. We've definitely gone a long way in terms of us making ourselves seen and heard, but women's health just seems to be lagging so far behind. And without our health, what are we? And there are a lot more complications that we suffer with in terms of our biology. And when I'm talking about being a woman, I'm talking about being a woman, like as we were assigned at birth. So I know that there are many trans men, you know, people that I know who are trans men who also suffer with lots of these issues. So I'm including everybody in this, but I'm just using the word woman broadly. But, you know, we have complicated, we have a complicated biology and we need different support to men. And I want to bring men along with us.

I don't want to man bash because we need men and women to fight our corner. And all men know a woman, probably love a woman, their mother, their sister, a work colleague, somebody like that. And at some point, they'll need help and understanding through various phases of their life. It might be terrible periods. It might be understanding why those periods are absolutely terrible. It might be navigating a terrible menopause at work or at home. You know, we need to come at this together. So my experience left me feeling so lonely.

So I was about 43 and I started getting these terrible night sweats not all the time and that's the other problem with perimenopause there's no rhythm to it that's not like PMT or PMS whatever whatever we call it now but that you can't kind of go over this time of the month I'm gonna get this night sweat and then you'd kind of figure out that it was hormonal. It was all over the place. And with night sweats came disrupted sleep, came more frequent urination, came a massive drying out of my skin and enormous brain fog. I put the brain fog down to not sleeping. I put the urination down to, I was drinking quite a lot because I was sweating so

much. So I just thought, well, I'm drinking too much water. Then I just felt like I aged overnight and then I lost my confidence. And it happened really quick. And I think possibly before that, creeping in with the non-physical symptoms. So things like low mood, just a slight. I mean, I was tired. I had three kids, had a very, very busy and successful career. And I I was married and my life was carnage. You know, weekends was just kids, kids, kids and then all week working. So, of course, yes, maybe that's why I'm tired. Maybe that's why I've got brain fog. I went to go and see a doctor and I said, look, I I've got Alzheimer's I'm really I can't remember anything and she said your inbox is full and that made sense to me I thought well my inbox is

full and we didn't talk about menopause then but a few months later I went back and I said do you think this is but Perry menopause I didn't even know the word meant Perry menopause I just said you think this is menopause and she said you're a bit too young for that so I was like if it's not that what is it and then you struggle along on your own quietly I didn't want to tell any friends of mine I felt that it was very aging I certainly didn't want to tell work about it I was very nervous that work might kind of um say well you know I I was still doing entertainment shows and I was thinking I really want to carry on doing entertainment shows what happens if I become kind of no longer making

eggs and I can't have babies anymore what happens if nobody wants to work with me anymore because I'll be deemed as old I hate the fact that I thought that and I hate the fact that you know I had no one to turn to that it was was so hush-hush and it felt taboo. Not that anybody made me feel taboo. I made me feel that it was taboo, that I just couldn't talk to anybody. I couldn't talk to my friends, even though a couple of them I know now were struggling through it on their own as well. And none of us were talking to each other. So eventually, I mean mean I often talk about feeling

invisible I just felt transparent I just felt like I would walk down the street and I was just invisible I felt like I was invisible at home I felt I was invisible at work and I felt like I didn't have a voice anymore I really lost confidence at work I was so lost and I actually then paid to go and see a private doctor because I thought, I need more than seven minutes. I'm really scared now. And I went to see a private doctor and she said, I think you might be perimenopause.

It was the first time I'd heard that. By this point, I was probably about 46. And I said, what's that? You know, I'm still having periods. And she went, well, are they different? I said, well, they're the same still having periods and she went well are they different I said well they're the same monthly but they are maybe a day longer she went that's a change in your periods you're very menopausal I was like what then the grief hits right so then I went to go and talk she said go and talk to this guy he can help you with hormones I was like I don't want

to go on hormones she said just go talk to him anyway he was a very forward thinking because this was 11 no this was 10 years ago he was a very forward thinking doctor back then and he said what about trying HRT and he went through all the pros and cons he talked to me about transdermal HRT and I was like oh I thought HRT gave you cancer he was like no it's correlation and causation, like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. He was amazing. And then he said, look, let's just try on it and see if it helps. Oh my God, in a week, I slept through the night. It made me want to cry the first time I slept through the night. I was going mad through lack of sleep. And I got a bit of a pep in my step I stopped screaming at

the kids on the school run I said you know everything got better and I thought why does nobody else go on this I lied to my friends because I have lots of friends who are kind of natural and everything and I thought I can't tell them the truth and um and eventually I kept sort of came out as being an HRT user. And a couple of them were like, oh, we're on it as well. And then I thought, okay, come on, Mrs. Daft. This is really stupid. Everybody's struggling in silence.

We're all secretly taking HRT. Some people are so scared, but they're still taking HRT because they would rather die than live with their with their with their symptoms um so it was it was just a mess out there yeah absolutely I mean thank you for sharing your experience I feel like often when people talk about the menopause they'll talk about the physical symptoms the irregular periods the hot flashes but not many people will talk about the menopause they'll talk about the physical symptoms the irregular periods the hot flashes but not many people will talk about like how it mentally affected them even their confidence work all of these things it transcends your life and the thing is women will spend a third of their life in the menopause so it's just bonkers that we would kind of once that happens we're like okay

you're on your own there's no nothing else we can do for you because your reproductive life isn't is at an end you cannot be fertile after this what's so interesting I think that when when there's a grieving period right I hate change I mean I only ever change if my back is completely up against the wall I love consistency, knowing what I'm doing and change in terms of often personal growth. I'm often like, I don't want to do it. I don't. OK, I'll do it. And then I do it. And it's transformational. It's amazing. The change that happens in your body mentally and physically when you know that you're not going to have children anymore is so profound.

And it is a grieving process and it is quite painful to navigate but when you find a way through and that could be with HRT without HRT let's not forget maybe a quarter of people like literally like walk through it no problem you know with no symptoms at all so like they might just go what what menopause it was absolutely fine um but when you find your path and your way to navigate through it um it can be a very liberating time in your life but for a few years it is tough and that's why it is important that our friends and our family and our work colleagues and can can support us because let's also not forget that often when it hits us you know let's say it's in your 40s early 40s you are at the prime of your life you you are really really good at your job

you've been doing it for absolutely ages you really know what you're doing you're a boss you've got loads of amazing advice and help and support and mentor other people coming up through your business and suddenly you're like ah help if you can help that person in those months or few years that they need to get through to the other side oh my god when they get through to the other side yeah amazing yeah and I think that's it it's normalizing the conversation and supporting people through that period um and I read somewhere that after your first menopause documentary, which was Sex, Myths and the Menopause,

there was a huge demand for HRT after that because of the conversations. What kind of concerns or misconceptions were women speaking to you about or even your friends when it came to HRT? Or maybe that you felt yourself. Yeah. Yeah. So there was a paper. i'm not going to go into too much detail about it because we talk about it in the documentary and we've talked about it

everywhere but there was a paper that happened in the early 2000s and i remember it and basically it was a piece of research and the data got crunched and they said it hlt gives you breast cancer it's it's really important i mean i really remember that. And I remember thinking, I'm not going on that ever. But what's really important to remember is now, many, many years later, they've gone back, they've looked at the data. The women that took part in it were all over 60, which is a completely different age group to the women that would be normally starting to take it now. And there is transdermal HRT, which is a completely different type of HRT and carries much lower risks. So everything, the medical landscape, you know what medicine's like. In 21 years, the landscape changes enormously because there are so many new discoveries made, even in women's health.

What is really sad, me and Dr. Naomi Potterter who i wrote menopausing with did a talk two nights ago and a woman came up to us and said i've got the patches but i'm just terrified i am so scared of taking them because i've read the leaflet inside and i said and in our first documentary we talk about the leaflets and how they are actually factually incorrect they're for the old type of hT and I wonder how many women get prescribed the patches and it talks about DVT and risk of clot and everything and you think I'm not taking that and then you don't take it when it could have such a profound effect on your life you don't take it because the leaflet's wrong I I mean, this is the kind of stuff that incenses me

because that is an easy fix. That's a piece of paper. They know about it. We've talked about it nonstop. This was three years ago. It feels so insulting to us that you wouldn't help us feel better or take something that would mean

that we could stay in our jobs or stay in our marriages or be better parents. I mean, anyway, so Naomi was brilliant about it. Very quickly, when I got involved in this, there were two things. When I thought about, do I want to put my head above the pulpit, which, as I explained earlier, is not something I naturally like doing, because you can get shot at. And I don't really want to get shot at.

I want a peaceful life. Why do I want to do this? And is it worth it? My first thing was, I've got to tell you, I hated being invisible. I really hated it. And I don't want any woman to go through that and feel transparent in life like nothing, like an amoeba. So I thought I want to reframe the way that society sees us and I think I'm I I thought to myself I think I am a good person to do that I think I can convey

that and I've got a platform to do that but the second thing that I just couldn't believe the more I started scratching the surface was this hysteria around HRT when you looked at the facts and the stats on its safety and they were so disproportionate to the fear around it that I thought we've got to get this message out there that HLT is largely safe. It really is. So Naomi the other day said, and this is the doctor Naomi and I'm quoting her. You are at lower risk of death from all causes if you take HLT. And I just thought, well, you can't get more kind of basic than that so I thought like god I've got to try and get that message clearer to people so that the people who do really struggle and I said quarter of the people you know breeze through it but the other higher end of the court you know

the higher quarter 50% of the middle were a bit like me. But there are women who feel suicidal in menopause. And HRT, what if there are some women out there that aren't taking it, that really need it because of the fear around it? It seems criminal to me. Yeah, yeah, that's the thing. And I think there is this widespread fear from old data that, you know, the media picked up loads of headlines around how scary it was. It's the same with the pill. And yes, there are risks to any medication that we put into our body or put on our body.

But we need to weigh that up with the benefits. And for some people, the benefits are so much larger than the risks um and I do agree that it's often like blown out of proportion in that way so just to kind of open up the conversation for women to say you know this is a conversation you should have explore this option because it could transform your life I think is hugely important and you've got to talk it through with a health care specialist and like you said you know everybody's different so some people it might suit some people it might not suit and I really really want to give a big shout out to anybody

out there who can't take it um who um maybe has or doesn't want to you know doesn't feel that it's a natural part of of aging just quickly want to say on the natural part of aging, because I too felt like that. And somebody explained it to me in such a brilliant way. I mean, I had all my babies at home. I don't drink alcohol. I don't smoke cigarettes. I'm, you know, I'm a very sort of clean person. And so I didn't, I didn't want to do this. I don't want to take medicine but they said you know in the Victorian days we used to get pregnant have children 16 17 and then die as we hit menopause like we would die in our 40s or 50s and the the age now that we're expected to live to

you'll probably live till you're 100 well my god that is 50 years post-menopause 45 years post-menopause that's a long time to live without any estrogen in your body you know not great for your bones not great for your heart like so even though it is not how nature made us these are body identical hormones and they will really help protect your body to live an active life for as long as possible which to me when I weighed up my pros and cons was important yeah I think that's a really important point when does fast grocery delivery through instacart matter most? When your famous grainy mustard potato salad isn't so famous without the grainy mustard. When the barbecue's lit, but there's nothing to grill.

When the in-laws decide that, actually, they will stay for dinner. Instacart has all your groceries covered this summer. So download the app and get delivery in as fast as 60 minutes. Plus enjoy $0 delivery fees on your first three orders. Service fees, exclusions and terms apply. Instacart, groceries that over deliver. And you, you know, raise another question, which is, we forget how powerful the effect of estrogen is not just on managing symptoms, but on protecting our bones, protecting our heart,

protecting our brain. And our heart, protecting our brain. And after the menopause, it's even more important to start thinking about those things, your diet, your exercise. And obviously, you're one of the most active people I know. Did you find going through the menopause changed how active you were? Or did it motivate you to be more active? Well, I mean, in per perimenopause before I knew what it was I I was horrified by what happened to me um in terms of I really was I was kind of doing you know all these challenges and I lost my mojo in terms of working out in quite a major way I didn't massively have aching bones which is quite a big aching joints which is quite a major way. I didn't massively have aching bones, which is quite a big, aching joints,

which is quite a big symptom, but I just had no energy and I had no motivation. And, you know, I do always, I've never regretted a workout, that's for sure. But I found it much, much harder to kind of get up and go or wake up in the morning but I always say to people find the thing that you enjoy and do that you know I used to love HIIT classes I don't I don't feel that they are as good for me now as they used to be so now I prefer to do a bit of cardio I love running I love spin so I love those two things so I do those for cardio and then I like strength training now and I can feel the benefits from it I do those for cardio. And then I like strength training now. And I can feel the benefits from it.

I like what it does for my body. And as I've got older, I don't want to start feeling, oh, I can't run up the stairs anymore. I always walk up escalators. You know, wherever I can walk, I walk. Another thing that's quite funny, that quite interesting is that you know sometimes you get this thing where you think oh i'd quite like to sit down i fight that all the time i fight kind of these urges to be more sedentary a lot because my my um my activity levels or my strength levels or my kind of energy is very much guided by how active I am in the day.

And I'm not talking about exercise. I'm just talking about mobile mobility and moving around. It's very, very, very important as we age. And muscle strength, you know, you can lose a lot of muscle as you get older. And in terms of, you know, HRC will only get to help you with certain things, with symptoms and stuff like that. But with muscle strength, it's like you've got to use it or lose it. And protein is super important. And as I've got older, again, I eat a little bit less, because I just don't need the calories that I used to need in my in my 30s. My portion sizes are smaller. I will do an eating window three or four days a week.

And some of those days, I think, I'm definitely not getting enough protein. You know, I mean, a chicken breast to me sometimes looks like a lot of chicken. Like it's huge, meaty, kind of too much. Well, the other day, you know, I had done my intermittent fasting. I was at work and it was just all like bread-based stuff. I was like, oh, my God, what am I doing? It was like a pasta dish. And then in the evening, I was like, I just definitely haven't had enough protein.

So that's, I think, when you – and I know that really if I was at home and I was cooking three meals a day I'd get enough protein you know because I I know what I mean I'll be eating eggs in the morning I'll be but sometimes when you're on the go or when you're older you might not be consuming enough protein protein is important so I'm really trying to kind of always tweak am I getting enough proper good food in me am I exercising enough and all of these things now it's no longer to have the beach you know beach perfect body I want to stay alive for a long time for my kids and my grandkids and I also want to be as fit as a fiddle when I

as I'm living yeah and so I'm tweaking all the time. Like, it's not annoying. It's like interesting and fun. You must find that. Yeah, of course. And I think the comment on protein is really important because we naturally eat less and less protein as we get older. And obviously, like you mentioned, if you're out of home, the most convenient foods tend to be just carbohydrate based or fat based or if they've got if they've got chicken in they never put enough in they never do because it costs money yeah that's the thing and you have to be more proactive about include especially if you're active like you've mentioned which is a nice kind of segue into your collaboration with food spring so you've brought out your own

protein supplement was this because you were finding it hard well I what I always do is you know if I'm thinking about um doing a collaboration with somebody it's always like do I need it it's quite selfish in a way but I was my house is full of men now it's weird my because I I've got two daughters and a son but now I've got two step-sons. And my two daughters have left home, and now I'm left with, like, a lot of men. And there is protein all over the place. I'm always a bit like, oh, I don't know about that.

What's creatine? What's all of that? And it all feels very man. And I thought I need to, like, firstly, to find a company that's prepared to talk me through everything, all the science, all the understanding. Why? How long is it released? Does it is it really going to help me? Am I going to absorb it? I I don't want to just take something for the hell of it. Like I said, you know, I have my babies at home. I want to take something natural. But the thing I liked about this protein, because I was talking to them about that, I don't believe in supplements,

really, either. I think I should get it from my food. But there are a few magic supplements that I've been taught by various people that are really super important. So vitamin C and D, no brainer. The bees, especially for me, all the bee vitamins are super important so vitamin c and d no-brainer um the bees especially for me all the bee vitamins are super important so what's quite nice is we lumped some vitamins and minerals in there as well so it's protein vitamins and minerals so it's like a um like everything that i need for my body at my age when i know that I haven't had enough protein in the day and look there'll be times and quite often it's at the weekend when I'm at home where I know I've had enough protein and I don't take the supplement you don't the point about the

supplement is that you don't take it if you don't need it don't think that every single day you can because on a Sunday I will always do a Sunday roast and it's like a massive feast and then in the evening we'll always have a bit more or something and in the morning because we'll have a nice long workout because it's a Sunday we'll always have eggs you know so I think well I've got my I've had my quota I'm I'm full the other thing that um I found out about which I didn't know about was slow it was like a slow release protein which kind of can release through the night and I also didn't know that you don't have to take protein straight around your workout for it to do the benefits to the muscles.

I always thought, oh, you have to have protein kind of before or after working out because that's what... But actually, you can have it for up to 24 hours afterwards. So the food that you eat throughout the day or the shake that you take in the evening is just as good it'll still work wonders for your muscles so don't or and your whole body it's not even just your muscles protein's important for all of us right yeah like our whole body but there's this one that i've done called protein and relax which is like having a hot cocoa at night I've turned into such a nana I'm now embracing my inner nana

and um it tastes quite kind of um like comforting and a bit honey and sort of cinnamony I drink it at night with hot milk oh nice and milk's really good for us you know if you're not milk intolerant lots of people get a bit intolerant when they get older. I haven't, thank God. But, you know, hot milk is great and calcium is great for your bones and your teeth. And I mean, the other thing I'm learning is, is to try and not give things up. You know, we're always so obsessed with, oh my God, I can't eat this. You know, what do you think? Yeah, no about that no i i would be i'm the type of nutritionist that's let's see what we can add in not take out like can we add in more veggies can we add in more fiber can we add in more protein like let's stop focusing on cutting out

all these things because i think really all foods can fit in a healthy diet in moderation and people i just see people drive themselves up the tree with when they do remove something they really love they really enjoy i know and it's i just life's not worth that because you know like your relationships your food relationship all these things also contribute to your health and your longevity and what is living if you only eat broccoli and drink green juices all the time yeah and there's nothing in the research that says the healthiest populations just drink green juices all the time so i think i i love that you think and you're intuitive about your nutrition like it's important that i get enough protein but if I'm eating whole foods and

I'm at home I know that my meals are balanced and I probably don't need to supplement because I do think that sometimes we can go the other way where we are the way but this is the thing it's like um you know everything in moderation even moderation And isn't it a shame how polarized everything sort of becomes online? Yeah. So it's like, you know, either people are going, you shouldn't take protein every day because it's bad. And then people like me who do need it occasionally think, oh my God, protein's bad.

Like a protein supplement's bad. But then the other way is like you should never do protein um you know because you should be getting it in your diet but i know for a fact that there are times when i don't nobody is that black and white no um and it's the same with everything it's the same with um um you know the the whole issue mean, anything in the menopause is polarizing. Yeah. You know, but actually most of us are sort of middle ground. Like you've just got to kind of weigh it up.

Everybody's different. We all have different needs. We all have different diets. We all have different jobs. And what I think we should all be on actually is a journey to discover what do you need as as a person take little bits from everywhere that you go to listen to some people and don't necessarily think oh I have to do everything that that they do or everything because you're not going to be

like that you you do you do you understand what I'm saying yeah yeah absolutely but you strike me as a person who doesn't care very much about what other people are telling you to do you're taking on all these pieces of information and then you're like well I'm gonna formulate what works best for me so it's a little bit of this a little bit of that and I think that's the best way to live your life because otherwise you're gonna wrap yourself up in in like knots because you'll be like well so and so said I should do this diet and so and so said I should be on the supplement and add this in and I think we're very lucky um nowadays because there are so many amazing experts online that we can just tap into I mean there's you you know um and there's like just loads of people online

that you can kind of get go and take a piece and there's amazing podcasts by all sorts of doctors and nutritionists and dietitians it's so useful and helpful but it can also be quite confusing yeah yeah but it's only confusing if you don't listen to yourself. Listen to your body. Think, what do I need? Oh, I'm going to pick that bit of information. That was really helpful. And do listen to everybody. It is really helpful.

And like in any field, and I think the same about food, I think the same about menopause, I think the same about any kind of big area in women's health that we need all of you guys to work together and not publicly slate each other. agreement with somebody else in the menopausal arena don't say it publicly because it's really confusing for women who are menopausal who are trying to get advice from somewhere when someone undermines the doctor that you've been following for six months and you think oh no is everything she says wrong and actually isn't it might be one topic so like why doesn't that doctor say let's go out for lunch and talk it through and do an alive together and collaborate and then we can help more people

because I think what we've gotten is collaboration in our field is so powerful and everybody's a bit like oh I don't want to collaborate because they're in the same field as me. Rubbish, like, collaborate in the same field, it'll give you twice the number of followers, twice the kind of amplification. And then it will be helping the people you're really trying to get to. Yeah, yeah, I think definitely I agree with you in that sometimes there can be too many voices and you may trust all of them, but they may be saying things in a slightly different way. And I think that's that's OK for people to have different opinions. But sometimes it can be like who has the loudest voice as opposed to are we giving out clear concise information here which I guess is just you know the way of social media and you kind of have to have your wits about you when you're following people online and kind of and maybe just streamline you don't need to follow everyone find someone who you trust

whose voice resonates with you and because I mean I and I'm saying that to myself as my own personal advice because sometimes you can go online and you're just it becomes comparison theory and everything that you're looking at and you're not doing as well as so and so. Yes, I hate that feeling. Life is hard enough without comparing yourself to everybody else. to kind of take a little turn back to one of your documentaries your most recent one which wasn't about the menopause but was on the kind of pill revolution and how more and more women are moving away from the pill and I think this is just a reflection of a whole movement towards women really just wanting to know more information about their bodies and question okay if I am going to take this are there any risks risks? What are the benefits? What do I need to know? What was the most surprising thing you found from doing that documentary? I guess because I've got teenage girls, this was really important to me. You know,

I've got a 20 and a 22 year old. And one of them has been on the pill and really hasn't struggled with it at all, which is a bit my bit my story like I I went on the pill for years I was fine with the hormones I mean I think I was you know I was struggling as a teenager but that was other stuff you know I had a lot of stuff going on but um and I haven't really struggled with hormones later on in life you know so I think maybe I just but my my eldest daughter's really had a hard time and I was very kind of lost as to where do you turn to? Where do you go? Who do you talk to?

And again, when this is something we've, my generation were just told, you've got very heavy periods. I had loads of friends who would leak nonstop, have a terrible time. They were just told to suck it up, like suck it up, just get on with it, you know, in absolute agony. And now we know, you know, it could be undiagnosed endometriosis, PCOS.

Like, there are so many things that women have been struggling with. And, you know, it takes up to eight years to diagnose endometriosis. I mean, like, that's unacceptable. But the thing that I found was that there are so many amazing groups of young women out there and organizations that are there to help you but again that we don't know enough about that um it's up to people like us you me to use our platforms to amplify these voices so one of my favorite one of the favorite groups that I met was the Lowdown. Yes.

Which is an online platform. And they basically are a trip advisor for your vagina. So you can go on there and you can review and leave a review for your type of contraceptive. And if you are thinking about going on the contraceptive, it is a brilliant place to go and do consumer led research. So it's, it's amazing. It's an amazing place. And I learned, I learned that the coil was the preferred on, on the low down, the coil is the preferred method of hormonal contraception and I was amazed by that

because I've only ever heard I've always used the coil it's been amazing for me but I just heard so many horror stories about people having their coils fitted and I thought wow if it's the favorite type it's such a shame that there's so much negativity around getting a coil fitted um if it's the most preferred type and it's got the lowest amount of um hormones going into you and it's probably in in those terms the best out of the bunch and nobody's using it because they're terrified i thought that was terrible but i met um a group of girls called cert c- C-E-R-T, in Scotland. They were all coming together to try and help change the way that girls are being looked after in terms of their periods and contraception and all things gynecological up in Scotland.

They are amazing. So I was like, oh, wow, there are so many great organizations. And it is worth a Google and do not just sit there in pain thinking i've got to suck it up because this is how we've been programmed and we don't and not sucking it up and being strong and brave isn't the opposite of that it's not weak it is in fact just looking after yourself and enabling you to live a happier life we've somehow kind of felt that there's a shame in some way of speaking up when we're in pain or and that's wrong as well yeah but I think it's just you know with any other pain we'd speak up about it and we'd go to a doctor but with menstrual pain

yeah because it's you know natural to have a, then we just assume that it's part and parcel of being a woman, to be in pain, to have heavy periods, to have mood swings. When, yes, some amount of cramping is expected, but you shouldn't be on the floor in pain and agony. And I see that more and more often, women using their annual leave because of their periods. And they're too afraid to speak to their employees because they don't want to miss out on career opportunities. So I think it's so important we have those conversations and normalize that.

And I love the lowdown. They've been on the podcast because, you know, I've worked in the NHS. I know the time constraints and if you're going there for the first time to find a contraception that suits you seven minutes isn't enough to find out all the different options all the side effects all the benefits all the things to consider so I think it is worth even if you have a fantastic GP doing your own digging ahead of time to find out what's available because you well I know when I was a teenager all I was told is it's the pill or nothing like that's

what's going on yeah straight on the mic and the other thing I think uh is that's great about the low down they've just done a new page I think on um endometriosis and PCOS so there's a whole area there because there are a different set of kind of problems that come with that and so they've really started doing a lot of work on that and you can get a doctor's appointment on the low down you do pay for it but it's a much lower price I think than a private doctor so that might be worth looking into as well. Yeah absolutely it's amazing amazing I'm not paid to talk about them I'm literally just talking about them because they are a good organization yeah I completely agree this has been such a great conversation I'd love to wrap up with

three questions which we ask every guest um the first is if you had an extra hour in the day, how would you spend it? With family. I have like a mad work-life balance that is, at times it feels unhealthy. But like in the week, I work like a maniac. And sometimes my job requires me to work on a weekend, which is very hard for a mother. Anybody that's watching that knows about mother's guilt, I feel that a lot. do get to take the holidays off which lots of working women don't so I know that I'm lucky in that respect but I think if I had an extra hour I would like get family together my boyfriend and we'd all just send it together yeah amazing if you're going to desert island what are three things that you're bringing with you?

A bath. I always think like, you know, all of those showers and, you know, like sort of man-made showers or whatever always look kind of glamorous and everything. But I love a bath. Bath is my chill out place. I don't know if I'm allowed to say an entire music collection but I would if that counts as one thing but you know music and something to amplify it with yeah I'm bringing that so I've got music bath and I think I'd bring like my family again so you know so I'd have company I I I mean they they have a great saying an addict alone is in bad company but actually I just think I am a people person and um you know COVID got me down for so many reasons but the not being able to just talk to people on the dog walk or people

being frightened to smile at you in a shop or everybody being behind a mask oh god it broke me it was very hard yeah so I need people people music bath and then the last thing is what's one thing that you're grateful for today love my life is full of love oh that's so nice to you i i love i love my life and i i love my friends and family that are in it so much i'm so grateful for that oh that's wonderful and such a nice way to finish thank you so much for your time thanks for having me it's been wonderful and i hope it inspires a lot more conversation around the women's health space as well. Thanks for having me a lot. Thank you.

It's been wonderful. Thank you. I hope you loved that episode as much as I did. But before you go, I've got a little favour to ask you. And that is to please leave us a review and rating and share this episode with someone you know will benefit from it too.