The Food Medic - S8 E3: Healing your relationship with food with Embody Health LDN

Episode Date: July 14, 2022

Hello and welcome back to another episode of The Food Medic podcast, I’m your host Dr Hazel. On this episode Hazel is joined by Ariana Rodriguez and Cassie Barnard who are Registered Dietitians, Certified Intuitive Eating Counsellors and Founders of Embody Health London - London’s online eating disorder and disordered eating nutrition clinic. They are best known as the “Dancing Dietitians” on social media, where TikTok deemed them as Mental Health and Wellness Ambassadors for their platform in 2021.This episode covers: Intuitive eating Red flags of disordered eatingSupporting someone with disordered eatingBinge eating, why it happens and what to do about itEmotional eating and comfort foodBreaking up with diet culture If you loved this episode make sure to give it a review, rating (hopefully 5 stars) and share it with your friends and family. Thank you to our season sponsor WHOOP. Right now, you can get your first month free when you checkout through join.whoop.com/thefoodmedic@thefoodmedic / www.thefoodmedic.co.uk Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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probably best known as the dancing dietitians on social media, where TikTok deemed them as mental health and wellness ambassadors for their platform in 2021. Now I know lots of you have requested this conversation and have sent in lots of topics and questions you would like to be covered so make sure to listen all the way through and hopefully we cover everything that you hoped for. Today's podcast is brought to you by our seasoned sponsor Whoop. Whoop 4.0 is a 24-7 digital fitness and health coach that provides actionable insights to help you recover faster, train smarter and sleep better. And unlike most other wearables in the sense that it doesn't just tell you what

you've done, but it tells you what you really need to know. Now, as many of you know, I've been using my Whoop for the last couple of of years and I'm constantly impressed by how accurately it can quantify how I'm feeling. So each morning when you wake up you get a recovery score from WHOOP and this is based on your sleep and other health metrics. Now that score can help guide your day and informs you how much strain you're ready to take on. One of my favorite features is the built-in sleep coach. It lets you know how much sleep you should be getting based on your expected activity level for the following day. Whoop can help anyone perform better.

So whether you're preparing for a 5K, training for an event, or just looking to build healthier habits, Whoop can help you make smarter lifestyle decisions with data that is personalized to you. And right now, you can get your first month free when you check out through join.whoop.com slash thefoodmedic. Cassie and Ariana, welcome to the podcast.

Thank you so much, Hazel. It's great to be here. We are so happy to chat to you today. I'm so excited to have you guys in and meet you in real life because I feel like we've bumped into each other online so many times. Absolutely. I've been following your page for a long time. So I'm really excited about today's conversation. I've been doing my research, but I thought it would be lovely to just start with you guys explaining who you are and what you do. Maybe Cassie, do you want to start? Yeah, absolutely. So my name is Cassie Barnard. I am half the team here. We are the co-founders of Embody Health London. So I'm the

Australian in your ears today. And my wonderful co-founder is next to me. Hi, Ari. Hey, Cass. I'm Ariana, and I'm the other half, and I'm the Canadian here in the room. So I love how we're just a bunch of, you know, Internationals. Internationals. It's so fun. So yes, we co-founded Embody Health London in 2019, right before the pandemic hit, actually.

And just to give everyone a little debrief of what Embody Health London is, we are an online nutrition clinic specialized in disordered eating, chronic dieting, eating disorders, and body image work. And here we've actually developed what we call the Embody Health London method. And this is how we teach nutrition from a non-diet perspective with our aim to really promote food freedom and body confidence. So with this method, it's based on three different cornerstones. We have nourishment, of course. Hey, we're dietitians. We have the mindset piece as well as the embodiment piece.

So there's three cornerstones. And from our experience, we know that we can't have one without the other, actually. They're so intertwined. And so through our individual programs as well as our group coaching program, we deliver this in a way that feels authentic to every single person in a realistic way. And we're here to empower, empower people to make food choices from a confident place that feels good for them. There are so many dietitians and nutritionists that listen to this podcast. And obviously there's various different specialties and areas that you can go into. What made you guys decide that intuitive eating and working with people with disordered

relationships with food was where you wanted to go? And was that what you started with or did you transition? No, it's not quite where we started. We, as majority of nutrition professionals and dietitians, we were trained at university in a very weight centric model. And so what that means is that essentially weight equals health. And as dietitians, we were taught this throughout our schooling and our studies. I think there's some shifts in the curriculum these days, but back in our day, it was very much weight equals health. And we know that it is a lot more complex than that. Of course, it comes down to our relationship with food, our sleep, our stress

levels, our relationship with exercise, our family support system, and the list goes on. And so we found through our work as dietitians, we went down that traditional route initially first, and we specialized in helping clients lose weight. Now, when we tell our clients this these days, they're like, what? You did that? Like, yeah, sorry, we did back in the day. But working in this private clinic is where Ari and I actually both met. We came to realize that working with clients over the years, that the diet or the weight loss plan wasn't working. They would lose a couple of pounds, a couple of kilograms over a short time frame, and they'd come back a few months later. I'm like, oh, I'm back again. It's not quite working.

I'm like, oh, that's interesting. And we thought, okay, maybe it's just this one client. But then this happened time and time and time again. And so after a few years of working in this clinic, we both decided, we had a conversation, we were thinking, oh, it doesn't really feel right working in this space anymore. Working in the weight loss clinic felt a bit icky. It wasn't really aligning with our core values. And we decided that, why don't we do our own thing? There's a huge gap in the market. There's not enough nutrition professionals specializing in the UK in this anti-diet space. And so from there, we decided to found InBody Health London a few years ago. With our experience working with clients at this weight loss clinic, we also realized that a

lot of them came to us with a history of an eating disorder or disordered eating as well. And we started to understand that there was such a strong tie between their sense of self-worth and the weight on the scale. And we thought, okay, there has to be another approach. And so, you know, throughout that time, we did our studies and we started to learn a bit more about intuitive eating. We learned from Elise Resch and Evelyn Triboli, of course, the co-authors of intuitive eating. And it just felt right. I think anyone who's heard of intuitive eating, you read the research, you start to learn about it, which hopefully we'll dive into in today's conversation. I think you just get it. And lots of our clients say the same thing. That's right. And it goes back to what we already know inherently. So it feels there's a resonance there.

It just sits well. When you hear it, it's like, oh. But for many people, of course, with all the conditioning through diet culture in this society that we live in, it could be really difficult to perhaps visualize this being a reality for them. But we definitely want to preface this conversation

with saying it is totally possible for every single person because you were born intuitive. And of course, through our training, so we've had many different trainings in addition to the dietetics field, which is why I think that brings that mindset embodiment piece, which is so, so important to the work we do. And to really, truly move towards intuitive eating we need to also consider the mindset piece and that embodiment really coming back to understanding how your body communicates to you so that then you can trust that again so we've had a bit of training in you know acceptance commitment therapy you know NLP neuro-linguistic programming as well as embodiment work in order to facilitate this work. Yeah, absolutely. I think it just really hammers home the message that it's,

food is more than just nutrition and fuel. It's like such a complex thing that we, such a complex relationship that we have. And there's so many things that feed into our understanding of food and our relationship with food. And I think intuitive eating has definitely become more of a mainstream term lately, not always used correctly or in the right context. And I think if you could just explain what exactly is intuitive eating? And how does it differ from, say, calorie counting? Great question. Let's define it because there are a lot of myths out there. And I think it was in 2020 in the new year, they mentioned it being one of the top diets of the year. And I

thought, no, it's definitely not. So yes, let's kind of clarify that. So intuitive eating is what we call a self-care eating framework. So it's really combining instinct, emotion, and thoughts when making food choices. So it's really coming from an empowered place. As Cassie mentioned, it was actually created by two registered dietitians in 1995. So it's not new. However, it's new to most of us as it's been kind of coming up and becoming a bit more popular with diet culture existing and people being tired of being disempowered, really. But really, it comes from this notion that it's a way to respect our body. Nourishment is actually a way

to take care of ourselves. And the aim is for us to feel good when we nourish ourselves. And it's not meant to be a form of punishment. So this framework itself is actually comprised of 10 different principles. The principles include things like rejecting the diet mentality. So no, it's not a diet. As well as feeling your fullness, honoring your hunger, body respect, learning how to cope with your emotions with kindness and compassion, as well as moving your body, something you talk a lot about Hazel, which is with joy, as well as empowering your food choices with gentle nutrition. So still honoring that nutrition science, but using that in combination with your inherent body wisdom to make those choices. Absolutely. I think that's a

really good explanation. And like you said, it's not a diet. And I think that's the misconception, you know, because a lot of people kind of take that or maybe diet culture has taken that on board as well and using that because they see that it's become successful. Would that be fair to say? Yeah, definitely. And there's so much misinformation out there that, and also by people who don't really understand what intuitive eating means at the end of the day.

I think as well, just on the concept of intuitive eating and moving away from diet culture and dieting in general, I think, you know, Ari and I really need to understand, respect, and also recognize that we are two white women with thin privilege, and we have not experienced weight stigma or food insecurity that many of our clients or people that are listening to this podcast may have experienced. And that at the end of the day, intuitive eating and really seeking that support is a privilege in itself. And I want to just highlight that to people listening as well. Yeah, that's really important. So when I knew that you guys were coming on the podcast, I put my feelers out on social media to see what questions my audience had. And there

was so many. And one of the things that kept coming up was this fear around moving towards intuitive eating and not having control. And if I start eating intuitively, I will never stop. What are some of the fears around moving away from kind of very rigid control over food that you guys hear? That's one of them. Probably the most common. Absolutely. And it does make sense, especially when you have come to intuitive eating, this new way of living to find food freedom and body confidence and body autonomy,

that you come with a bucket list of food rules and food, foods that you forbid, foods that you feel bad about. And so when you finally allow yourselves to eat these forbidden foods, of course, you feel compelled to eat more than what you would probably deem to be a normal amount in that sitting, because you're still unpacking that psychological restriction that you have been living with whilst following diets and diet plans. Absolutely. And I would say that idea of control, I often like to caveat that with the sense of actually when you let go of control, you're in more control rather than having these rules dictate what you're eating. You actually start learning to, again, come back to this body that knows what you need

and when and how much. Now, it can be really challenging to learn that, right? Like Cassie said, it is really scary to let go because we've been taught that actually you can only eat between these times or you must have this and you mustn't have those foods, right? We label foods as good or bad. And so whenever there's that sense of morality around food, then that also lends to the sense of guilt, right? And we don't want to feel guilty. We want to think we're doing something good for ourselves and the world around us. So naturally, it's going to feel really scary and going against the grain.

So what we like to say is we have to unlearn and then relearn how to nourish ourselves again. And when we think about willpower, because I think the sense of control is this notion that I must have willpower or I don't have willpower. And it basically removes that power from yourself in and of itself. So the idea here is that biology trumps willpower, right? Your body, whenever you impose a restriction, whether it's a physical restriction, perhaps it's portion control. So you mentioned calories earlier. So whether if we're counting calories, counting points, or trying to use a smaller plate for eating, which the diet industry loves to tell us to do, you know, whenever we impose that restriction, we're at greater risk of then eating beyond our physical needs thereafter. And that can also happen with a mental restriction.

So if we have a food rule and we believe, okay, well, I'm eating this biscuit, but I shouldn't be, quote unquote, then when I start eating it, it's like, well, tomorrow, you know, the diet starts Monday mentality. Well, tomorrow, I won't be allowed because I've been naughty. And therefore, I'm more likely to eat more in abundance beyond what I actually wanted in the first place. Right. So notice that actually, you lose that locus of control when you try to live according to diet rules. Yeah, absolutely. And one of the things that comes up when you try to live according to diet rules. Yeah, absolutely. And one of the things that comes up when you, and you just mentioned it there,

that a lot of women will say to me is, how do I deal with that guilt? And guilt is like this word that's used often, like in relationship with food. What's your message to any clients that you work with who feel like they feel guilty if they overindulged or ate foods that they didn't have in their kind of safe space what's your message to them you're a human welcome to

the club and just recognizing this is a really great opportunity to reflect and stay curious and look at the experience through a non-judgmental lens. At the end of the day, any eating experience, whether you deem it to be bad or good, is actually a fantastic opportunity for learning and we can take away a lot from each experience. Now, it's also bearing in mind when you have those feelings of guilt, reflecting on what may have led to that feeling. Was there a rule that you were breaking? Was there a sense of, I shouldn't have this, I'm being really naughty, but sod it, I'll have it anyway. And so really understanding what led to that feeling of guilt. And we really help clients

work through what we call letting go of food guilt, letting go of binge guilt by reflecting on, okay, what happened before the experience? Were you too hungry, too stressed? Were you vulnerable? Were you bored? Did you have a need that you weren't willing to give yourself in that moment? When you were eating that food, do you have full permission to eat that food? Or is there a little inner critic saying you shouldn't be having this, but there you go anyway. Are you perhaps eating mindlessly and not truly connecting to the experience? And then after the experience, what was it like for you? Was it too much, not enough? If you have it again another day, what would you change, if anything? The reason we feel guilty is because we feel like we're being

a bad person and we're breaking a rule. And what I say to clients who come to clinics saying that is, okay, well, did you steal the chocolate? Because if you did, you probably should feel guilty for stealing it. But other than that, guilt has no place in the eating experience. Yeah, I completely agree with you. I know that you guys cover binge eating quite a lot in your clinic and also online. And you did a fantastic article for our website on it. And it's something that comes up quite a lot. And I think there, I would love to first tease apart, what's the difference between kind of having an occasional binge and having full blown binge eating disorder? Great question. Because again, that word is thrown around quite a lot as well, because what one person might claim to be a binge, they might

have overindulged in that moment. Maybe it happens time and again, it's not really impacting their quality of life. But in the moment to them, it might feel like a binge. And so we would call that a subjective binge in that case. Now, an objective binge is really defined by two main features, the sense of eating a significant amount of food and a sense of losing control. And then when that occurs, there's often, you know, when one is binge eating, there may be the initial sense of like relief or pleasure in those early stages, but it's often short after accompanied by guilt or shame or disgust as well. And we think about what's lending to that binge behavior. Again, it's coming back and taking notes of those vulnerabilities. So for example, is there perceived restriction in place? So for

example, are you not allowing yourself to eat breakfast because you're trying to be quote unquote good? Do you have a really unpleasant emotion or feeling that you are seeking to get rid of or to avoid and therefore the food seeking becomes higher? Do you, for example, have really intense negative feelings about your body or your body size? Perhaps you feel like you've gained weight. Maybe you have a feeling of fatness, which lots of clients say to us. Of course, fat's not a feeling, but that comes from this sense of, oh, I feel inadequate. I don't feel worthy. And that can then lend to these binge behaviors. Maybe life is really chaotic and you're really stressed out or maybe a bit unstructured as well. You might be prone to procrastinating.

Maybe you get a bit bored. Boredom, again, is a really common trigger for binge eating. Or maybe it's things like menstruation, of course. So us women, we might get a bit, I know I sure do, a bit moody, a bit irritable, maybe energy changes, maybe even like physical body changes, which are really uncomfortable, like bloating or just feeling a bit blech at that time of the month. And of course, alcohol as well. So we know that alcohol can reduce our inhibitions. Maybe our food preferences change. Maybe in the moment we go, sod it, I'll do it again tomorrow. Or we might wake up the next day from drinking and feel a bit flat and a bit meh, right? So it's really understanding, you know, the frequency and

the intensity of these behaviors and those triggers. And when we think about kind of really defining binge eating, it is this objective binge of eating, like I said previously, the significant amount of food with a loss of control. You mentioned that, you know, we're all human and sometimes we will eat more beyond what we want or need when it does happen there's often kind of feelings that we should then punish ourselves or go to the gym the next day or restrict for the week ahead what can we do instead coping strategies we love this and and as you you heard cassie i think a lot of the time it's adopting that curious mindset, right? Really asking yourselves, okay, what was going on for me then?

Getting to know yourself a little better. So we're trying to befriend ourselves once again, right? Because I think in today's day and age, it's so easy to have that inner critic just put us down. So a big part of this is an opportunity to be more self-compassionate to ourselves and bring that non-judgmental lens and be a bit more kind, right? What would I say to my best friend in this situation? How can I bring that narrative in? At least practice, right? Practice is really important. It's really difficult, but of course with practice, it's something that we're all working on because we're all human and we all have that inner critic. Now, in terms of what we can do, we love talking about diversifying this toolbox of ours. Often binge eating and or

emotional eating, which can be categorized as a form, is often that go-to, right? It becomes that go-to coping strategy. And so a big part of what we do with clients is actually thinking about, okay, when I'm feeling X, what can I do, Right? So number one, it's identifying how am I actually feeling, right? What emotion is coming up for me right now? If it is guilt or embarrassment or shame, or like, oh, I deserve to punish myself and I need to go drag myself to the gym, even though I don't want to, where does that live in my body? How do I know that's what I'm feeling? And then secondly, what do I actually need to meet that do I know that's what I'm feeling? And then secondly, what do I actually need to meet that, you know, to really meet myself there? First,

giving space to that emotion so you can actually start building that emotional resilience because, you know, binge eating and emotional eating can actually become this habitual response. And so we want to create, you know, what we call call pattern interrupt we want to just create a little bit more space between when we feel a certain way and then how we then respond so what could be helpful is okay what do i actually need is food going to honor that need is it going to to meet it sometimes the answer is yes and sometimes it's actually you know what maybe i'm craving a sense of belonging maybe i'm craving deep connection maybe i. Maybe I'm craving deep connection. Maybe I just need to sleep. I need a nap because you know what, maybe as Cassie mentioned, I had too much to drink last night and I'm at greater risk of binging. Or maybe it's because I'm menstruating and I actually just

need a timeout. And even though I scheduled a session for myself, my body's saying not today, maybe tomorrow. So it's bringing that level of compassion, curiosity, and asking yourself, what do I actually need? So it can look different for every single person. I love meditation, yoga, we talk a lot about breathwork can be helpful, journaling. I mean, heck, I think we've had clients even talk about fencing, boxing, just going outside in nature so really trying to create that distance between that felt kind of instant reaction mode to hmm what do i need then respond so there's quite an overlap between binge eating and comfort eating then in terms of like it's very much well oftentimes emotionally driven so understanding those emotions is is key and i

know that that's something that comes up a lot because it was one of the questions that a lot of women were saying that they're, you know, turning towards food when they feel anxious or upset about something and they are concerned that that's not a healthy behavior. Can it be healthy? Yes, it can. Great news. That's actually a really great point. When we think about emotional eating, I think the media deems it as this bad thing and you shouldn't be doing it. It means you have no self-control. Now, at the end of the day, it's twofold, right? So if you feel like food is not meeting the emotional need, it's definitely worth addressing other coping mechanisms to meet that need that you are

inherently seeking, whether it's like Ari said, belonging, love, connection, stillness. However, if food is what you want, we need to practice giving ourselves permission for the food to soothe us, for the food to provide that comfort. Now, that's important because think about it. When we're born as babies, how is a baby fed? A baby is held and cuddled as they receive milk from the bottle or the breast. And so from birth or like as a newborn, we make this association between food providing comfort, connection and safety. And so it makes perfect sense that we seek out food as that means of like a safety blanket or we're seeking extra comfort the missing puzzle piece in that situation is then giving yourself permission to allow the food to soothe you that's really good explanation binge eating is not the

only kind of sign that someone has a disordered relationship with food and i think i would love to just kind of cover off some red flags that someone should keep in mind if they think that their relationship with food isn't so great and they should perhaps seek further help. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, there's definitely quite a few. And at the end of the day, if you're questioning, is my relationship with food healthy or not? That's a pretty strong indication that it could be worth unpacking. So some reflective questions for you and Ari, please jump in as well, because there's definitely quite a few that I'm going to forget. Definitely like food obsessive thoughts. So

thinking about food 24-7, planning the next meal, daydreaming about food is a really common one and often means that you're underfed and undernourished, a really common symptom. Maybe missing out on social occasions or feeling really anxious when you're with friends and there's food involved. Maybe you don't eat, you go, oh no, it's okay, I just ate earlier, I'm actually really full, so I'm good to go. So kind of lying about your behaviors in front of friends. Maybe feeling really anxious and only eating what we would call quote unquote, the healthy option on the menu when you're with your friends as well. Having a disconnection from the hunger and fullness sensations.

God, and the list goes on. Ari, do you have any other ones? Absolutely. Yes, I'll chime in. So if ever we're thinking we must eat between a certain time frame, for example, that's another common one that we tend to hear. Or if we have rules around, okay, I'm allowed to eat this, but only if I exercise thereafter, or I have to walk my 10k steps in order to then allow myself to have this food. So it can creep in in many different ways. And whenever there is a contingency, we like to say, whenever there's a rule where it's like, but, then that's often going to be a food rule and a red flag in terms of there is some sort of distress around what happens if we break that rule. It often lends to distress, some discomfort, and that's going to be quite telling. Yeah, it's quite insidious when these things can, or like if you're in an exercise class and it's like, you know, you've earned your breakfast after this.

Or like if you're going out tonight, make sure you're earning that. And it's those messages. And I think years ago, I would have been like they would have gone over my head and I would never have thought about them. But now I'm like so aware of it. Where do you think we learn these things and how can we unlearn them? Where do we start? It's so problematic. Really. Generational as well them? Where do we start? It's so problematic, really.

Generational as well. How long do we have? Yeah. I think it starts in terms of who our role models are. And it's not to place blame on anyone because I think this diet culture has been pervasive for so long, many and many years. But ultimately, when we start, you know, starting to wean off the breast, as Cassie was mentioning, we start being told, you know, you must finish your plates,

have five more bites, you know, kind of you only get dessert if, right, noticing that we start using food as a reward. So a lot of that, those rules start kind of seeping into our belief system. And therefore we start behaving to align with that belief system. So it comes from the moment we start being weaned off food. And then equally it continues in magazines and social media, what we start seeing. You know, I eat like this and I have the life that you probably want. Therefore you should do this too, right? So we start kind of creating those associations.

And then, of course, through the diet industry actually promoting certain ways. Like in order to be healthy, you must, right? So it's whenever it comes from also, yeah, so I would say social media, influencers, magazines, depending on, you know, if you still read those, my generation does, as well as parents, grandparents is a big one, because that was even more strict. I know my grandmother still lives with diet culture, and she still uses a lot of that language. And that can be extremely harmful when we're in this family environment. Friends talking about, oh, I'm trying this, I'm trying that, wanting to fit in, right? So we're constantly trying to make sense of the world.

And I think as humans, we want to belong, don't we? That is like an innate need and desire to thrive. So we find ways to do that. And because diet culture is so pervasive, it's often one of those ways that we do it. Yeah. And you just feel like you need to kind of nod along and agree and things like that. And because diet culture is so pervasive, it's often one of those ways that we do it. Yeah. And you just feel like you need to kind of nod along and agree and things like that. So how do we break up with it? Yeah.

Where do we start? Love that question. Yeah. At the end of the day, it really starts with awareness. And like you said, Hazel, a few years ago, you were in exercise class and you didn't have the awareness at how problematic that statement was. And so at the end of the day, it's podcasts like this, it's expanding your area of interest in nutrition and understanding the agenda of people that you follow online and on social media. Are they trying to sell your weight loss plan or a diet product? Are they trying to promote their body as this ideal body? And if you eat like them, you can look like them. And so when it comes to social media,

which I think we spend so much time on, it's really diversifying our feed as much as possible. And I think Instagram has just released this literally this week that you can actually turn off weight loss ads on Instagram now, which is a really cool new feature. So just really, you know, redesigning your feed the way in which you'd like it to be. When you notice unhelpful conversations with friends or family, depends how bold you're feeling. I mean, sometimes I have to roll my eyes and just walk away because it's not worth the fight. But just, you know, maybe helping them to understand, like, where did that come from? I'm really curious why you have that belief? Like,

have you thought about it from this point of view? You know, from my experience, dieting doesn't work. If you've gone on more than one diet in your life, I mean, that tells us that perhaps the diet isn't going to work for you in the first place. And so it starts with conversations, education, and also giving a platform to people who have been suppressed throughout our generation as well. So like really diversifying your feed with people of different colours and shapes and sizes and different backgrounds because it is that kind of this thin ideal thin ideal is centered within the, within the

media. And if we can broaden that, I mean, recently I just watched Lizzo's documentary when she was trying to find her, her dance squad and it was incredible. You know, she had women in larger bodies on this show and it was just so interesting to watch because I'm, I'm so sick and tired of seeing like the same body in the media. It's kind of boring these days. And so just understanding, okay, how does this make you feel? And if you feel a bit rubbish about yourself, unfollow. And I think a big part of it is also grieving the thin ideal, right?

So Cassie alluded to this, the sense that there's still very much out there. You know, a lot of fashion companies, you know, that industry still very much has a specific look, even though I think there are efforts being made and it's so exciting to watch. Lizzo is an example of an advocate for, you know, all bodies are good bodies. But also sometimes we have to break up

with this thin ideal, right? And grieve. So there are those grieving steps. Getting angry at diet culture can be part of it. Feeling sad, like actually, my body's not going to look like that. Or maybe, you know, just kind of making peace with this is mine and how can I take care of it? Maybe it's, you know, you go through the denial phase. There are those phases of grief. And I think giving yourself permission to go through that, even writing a letter to your body could be really, really great. Perhaps an apology letter in terms of how you've treated it, you know, with what you knew best at the time, or maybe even just thanking your body also. So there's

different ways that we can go about making peace with the present moment now and just acknowledging that we only knew what we knew in the past and diet culture is around us and we have to you know give ourselves a break sometimes too yeah yeah that's very true I think there's so much um like you see it on reels and tiktok and it's like not a diet a lifestyle and like all of these kind of messages but I think that like some of this kind of lifestyle advice can also be a diet but in disguise how can we kind of recognize if something is a diet that may not look like a diet? We're looking at external references and this is a really great question to ask yourself so when it

is claiming to be a diet or a lifestyle change it's really the same thing at the end of the day. If you are relying on someone else, so a dietician or a coach or a whatever influencer to tell you what to eat, when to eat and how much to eat, then that is placing the power within that person. So taking it away from you and your body and giving the external influence power. Now, over time, that begins to erode our sense of body trust. And so when that person walks away, or you no longer have that support, you're thinking, okay, well, now what do I do? I don't know how to trust myself. I don't know what hunger and fullness feels like. I don't really know what food I like to eat. Eating and cooking makes me

feel really stressed. I need that external support. And so the biggest difference between this diet and lifestyle change is if something or someone is telling you what to do and what to eat and how much weight to lose, no matter how they package it, it is a diet intervention. And we know from the research that this can increase our chance of weight rebounding in the future so gaining more weight than when we started i mean just to kind of push back on some of the things that have come up and when i did put up this question box there was quite a few people who said you know i've kind of taken my time and i finally moved away from diet culture and i feel really empowered. But I'm quite confused because I want to promote my health, but I don't want to fall

back into the trap. How can we kind of engage in health promoting behaviors without feeling like we're restricted within that kind of mentality? Such a great point. And that brings up one of the principles of intuitive eating that I'll refer to here, which is what we call gentle nutrition, right? There is, of course, nutrition science, and we don't want to neglect that or say, ah, you know, we don't need that. Like, of course, it's an important science that we want to honor. I think there's a lot we can learn from that. And so remembering that intuitive eating and really living aligned with what your body needs marries both the science and public health guidance in addition to your inner body wisdom. So we need to think of them together cohesively.

And only when we do that, we find what we call authentic health that is true for you. Now, some of the guidance may not resonate with you. And so it's kind of, I like to say it's a trial and error is what we often say is picking and choosing and seeing, okay, what makes me feel good energetically speaking, mentally speaking. And so we have to think of health beyond merely the physical and it also including that mental, emotional, spiritual health. However, you know, you as a whole person, environmental health as well. So for example, if there are if you're not living in diet culture, which is great, so amazing for those listeners, there is still an element of, okay, if I try,

let's say, if I move my body and the guidelines tell me, I don't know, 150 hours a week for moderate to intense physical activity, maybe for me, just a bit less of moderate to physical, but maybe I want to do more yoga and that feels right for me. Maybe it means actually walking is my preferred way of moving my body. So playing with that, maybe it means actually I do want to run and that feels good for me. And I combine that with a bit more stretching. Okay. So it's kind of playing with the guidance and finding that sweet good for me. And I combine that with a bit more stretching. Okay. So it's kind of playing with the guidance and finding that sweet spot for yourself is what we often like to recommend. So of course we work with clients to find what that looks like, right? And then of

course, an important part of moving away from diet culture is coming back to your body, right? So a big part is actually learning to be embodied. So in this, it's really hard to do. If we've lived with trauma in the past, if we don't feel safe in this body because diet culture has told us, you know, it's not good enough, right? That's the messaging that we often get. We have to actually make peace with our body before we can actually truly become intuitive eaters. So even if we're, you know, modifying our social media and trying to avoid those messaging, there's still that element of, do I actually feel good and safe in this body? Only then can I actually trust it.

So it is a process. We have to, you know, like a friendship, we build trust over time. And so being curious, asking questions, what do you need? What do I want? What am I craving? You know, when you actually become intuitive eater, we develop this, what we call body food choice congruence. This is the sense that we are able to actually honor. Actually, I'm kind of craving just a green salad today because I've been eating quite beige and that's just because I've wanted that. Your body going to balance it out for you but that's part of the trusting that we have to lean into a little bit more yeah that's a really great way of explaining it and I mean obviously there's

a spectrum of people's relationship with food and there may be some people listening who think they can't do this on their own and they need further support. Where is kind of, what's your best advice in terms of first port of call when it comes to finding support for a disordered relationship with food? Absolutely. Definitely speak with your GP first and foremost, because it will be really great because a lot of people have this mentality or perhaps this inner dialogue or I'm not quite sick enough. People are worse off than me. It's not quite that bad. I know people are a lot worse off than me.

So definitely first and foremost, speak with your GP to have an assessment, to have a chat and to see if there is anything underlying that would need further attention. Now, if that's not for you, fine. I mean, we have some free resources on our website to help you get started. So we have developed, you know, there is a big gap in the market. It is hard to seek support, I'm not going to lie. And so we've developed a bunch of free eBooks and free workbooks and free quizzes to help people just get started on that journey and begin to make some subtle changes

and self-reflections as they begin that journey. Likewise, getting yourself a copy of the intuitive eating book and the workbook by Evelyn and Elise is an amazing place to start because they fully explain intuitive eating and the science behind it. And they walk you through each and every principle in a really step-by-step format as well. Amazing and um also for people who may have other people in their life who are kind of in a recovery from an eating disorder how can we support them that's a great question because they're again that we've seen the prevalence increase significantly in the last few years following the pandemic so this is certainly something we we want we're so glad you asked that question.

With eating disorders, again, there is a stigma. And because currently the public health system is over flooded, and this is in most countries, actually, not just the UK, but we're seeing this worldwide. We're seeing that support is only being given to those who are quote unquote, sick enough, right, Who are mostly underweight. And what we know is, and if you're listening, you know, only 6% of those eating disorders are underweight. And so it's, you know, we can live in a larger body and still have an eating disorder. So I think that's really important to talk about. If you are struggling with food, if it's getting in the way of your quality of life, if it's causing a lot

of distress, you're not partaking in social occasions anymore, you are worthy of support. That is the one thing I will certainly say. In terms of how they can get help at the very moment, it's really sad to say that it is going to be in the private setting if you're not falling within this underweight bracket. That's what we're often seeing. There are, of course, you know, day, what we call day patient hospitals, that doesn't have to be the way people go. But I would say cleaning up your feed, you know, tapping into the free resources that, for example, we have that other incredible specialists have. Reading is really helpful. There are a lot of books out there that could be certainly resourceful

for you to learn a bit more about what it is that you're struggling with, reframing it as well, and acknowledging that, you know, it's okay to be struggling. It's totally okay. But yeah, I would say the majority right now it is in the form of a private setting, unfortunately. And then of course you have wonderful beet eating disorders for example charities doing wonderful work where they offer support groups for example they're quite you know again they're in high demand so they're definitely there Seed UK is another charity anorexia and bulimia um abc is also another charity so so finding some free services as best you can and then if you feel like you need more than those private services will be

helpful for the one-to-one yeah and for friends of people who are struggling what can they do should they take the focus away from food and focus on other things? Yes. Speaking in food neutral terms is going to be my number one recommendation is starting to think about food as just food and being quite neutral around it. Thinking about how we offer compliments to people is going to be really important as well. Focusing on character strengths rather than perhaps our physical is going to be helpful

when we're supporting with anyone on the spectrum of disordered eating or eating disorders. And then getting educated, learning a bit more. If someone is struggling with eating disorder, learning about what that is and bringing that element again of compassion and listening. When we are a caregiver, the best thing we can do is really just listen and offer a listening ear. And because there is no right or wrong, it's really just going to be about neutral language, listening, compassion. That was a really, really informative podcast. But before you guys go, I have three questions for each of you that we finish each podcast on so i'm going to start you cassie what would be your number one takeaway from this episode that you want our listeners to go away with i would say when you learn to eat intuitively not only do you change

your relationship with food and your body you also change change your life. That's good. Can you follow up? Can you be like, Oh, I don't know, mic drop. So I would say intuitive eating is possible for every single person. You inherently possess the wisdom in order to get there and to heal your relationship with food. Love that also. So empowering. And what's the most important lesson you've learned from your career? I'll start with you, Ariana. Ooh, biggest one I've learned so much. I would say number one, diets do not work. Let's keep it simple. Exactly, exactly. Number one thing I've learned from my career is that we are working with human beings and

no matter anyone's qualifications or trainings or whatever they want to call themselves you are in charge of your body you know what works best for you you might have just got lost along the way but you can find it again. It's possible. Amazing. Finally, Biggie, what is your motto in life? It does not have to be related to this podcast at all or food or anything. I don't really have a life motto, if I'm honest with you. But if I was to answer this question, I would say my motto in life is to live in alignment with my core values. And those core values are adventure, health, and fun. And I find that when I live in alignment with those core values, my life is so much more content and I feel more fulfilled. That's lovely. I love the core values. I feel like we should go around and talk about our core values.

My life motto, this is something I've learned from a professor in my undergraduate degree, actually. He said it to me and I stuck with me ever since. It just hit, you know, got to my heart. It's going to be very simple, but it's follow your bliss. Oh, that's so nice. I love that. What a nice way to end. Yeah.

I'm sure people are going to want to find more about you guys. I know that you're a TikTok sensation. That's where I found you, learning all my dance tips. So where are you on social and your website and all your fabulous resources? Where can we find them? Yeah, dancing on TikTok, like a full-time dancer over here. So the Embody Health London handle is EM, so EmLondon, LDN on TikTok, InBodyHealthLondon underscore on Instagram. And our website is InBodyHealthLondon.com. And we have a bunch of free resources. If you want to learn more and dip your toe into the intuitive eating pond, come and join us. Amazing. Thank you so much for joining me today. It's been such a pleasure.

Thank you for having us. Thank you. Thanks, Hazel. Another amazing episode. I loved speaking to Cassie and Ariana and I hoped you loved listening. Make sure to check them out on social media under the handle Embody Health London underscore. If you love this episode, you know what to do. Leave us a review, a rating and share it with someone you know will love it too. Thank you so much for tuning in today. Make sure to subscribe so you're the first to hear of any new episodes. And if you want to submit a question to Ask Dr. Hazel, make sure to send your voice recorded question to lindsayatthefoodmedic.co.uk for your chance to be featured. That's all from me. See you again next time.