The Frank Skinner Show - Frank Hates Games

Episode Date: January 5, 2026

Frank and Emily are joined by Johnny White Really Really! The team share their Christmas gifts and Frank is feeling guilty about a compromise he made in Snappy Snaps. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It's Frank off the radio, Frank off the radio, Frank off the radio, it's the Frankskinner podcast, don't you know? The King's Lead Hat is a mother to desire it will come, it will come, it will surely come. This is Frank Off the Radio. I'm joined by Emily Dean and Johnny White, really, really. Remember her? You can follow the podcast on X and Instagram. You can email the podcast via Frank Off the Radio TavlonuK.com, but you know, what's up? Oh, seven, four, five, seven, four, one, four, seven, six, nine. Oh, seven, four, five, seven, four, one, four, seven, six, nine. Wow, that's a good one.

Fantastic. I'd go and see them. Who made that one? That was made by, uh, Lewis Freeman. Ah, okay. Sounds like, lovely stuff. Sounds like a pseudonym, doesn't it? Lewis Freeman is like something.

I'd come up with a pseudonym if that was me. It's like something. out of the, what was that, Jim Carrey, the Something show. The Truman Show. Yes, yes. Louis, that could have been his name, in it, Lewis Freeman. Yeah, I'll bet. So, listen, I've been, as I said on the last year,

I've been watching a lot of telly, Christmas. What else are you going to do? So, a sledge, there's no snow. I got a sledge. I don't have the... You can't take a sledge out without the snow. It's embarrassing. No.

We did it. once with when it was just a bit frosty and I said I reckon we could sledge on this the sledge just disintegrated we were basically sledging on just hard soil did you go for the boxing day walk I did you've got to do that the obligatory wall I did it on the beach as well

lovely I can't remember I didn't do that I always I managed to get out of it by writing a quiz so I say I've got to stay and write my quiz not this not a nice thing to do right it's too late now John E But then do you just go online and put in quiz? No, I sort of collate it over the year.

A lot of it's just stuff I've thought. But then there's some real factor there. Yeah, it's like I sort of, I do, just over the season, I carry a quiz around with me on my phone. I can do at any point. But yes, that's how I get out of my walk. Okay. What do you think was your best question this year?

The one you was most proud of. You know, when you come up with one and think this, really. This is great. What colour is a black box? Oh. I'm guessing that it's black and it's a double block. Oh, yeah.

Oh, yeah. It is a double bluff. Yeah, yeah. Well, there you go. I didn't think it was a double bluff. I'm quite stupid, so I just would have said black. Oh, no, like a black box in an airplane. Yeah, that's what I mean.

Oh, right. Oh, yeah. Because it's called black box. Yeah. Yeah, but it could have been, well, anyway. That's the idea. of course. My son, when he was very little,

I've told this to her only here before, but not to Johnny White really, really. A woman stopped me in the street and said I'm a philosophy student at Edinburgh, and it was in Edinburgh, and she said, I've actually written a paper on something you said your son said when he was little. Oh, wow.

And what he said was, what colour is the mirror? And she wrote a whole philosophy paper on him. Yeah. So try that next year. That will blow their minds. So anyway, I was watching Carnival of Monsters. Do you know it? No.

It's a Doctor Who story from the early 70s. John Purtwey. Okay. So do you like Doctor Who, Johnny? It's all right to say no. Not hugely. Okay. I mean, actually, you know what?

I really like you, Johnny. You must more grown up than I have. I mean, I remember checking back in. to it when, who was it that started out the new ones? Christopher Eccleston. He was good. Was he? I liked him. You think they're all good? I think they all have

something special. Who's your least favorite one? He won't ever admit that? He would never say that. That's okay, that's yeah. Especially as when you go to Comic-Conn's, you don't want to be on podcast saying of your least favorite talk to us. But it's like our office. Sometimes I want, you know, white jumpsuit

and some days I want son records. it's like that so anyway they play in between the episodes so there's like I don't know how many episodes it's probably like seven episodes

four episodes they said you know you get the sponsor come on for the sponsoring drama on whatever the channel it's a car or whatever yeah

and they said I wrote this down so I got it right festive entertainment proudly sponsored by Beaver Brooks okay Now, they make costume jewellery, I think.

Do you, are you aware of them? Oh, okay. I won't ask Johnny. He doesn't look a costume jewelry kind of a guy. Anyway, it reminded me, and I don't know if you get this, Johnny, but occasionally I'll do a joke. I'll say occasionally, quite often. I'll do a joke in stand-up, and I can't wait to do it. I have the idea for the joke, and I think this is just, like, the best.

And Beaverbrook, there was a, are you aware of Lord Beaverbrook? No, not well, he started the Express newspaper. Yeah, he was the owner of, he was what in the old days he used to call, and I love this, a press baron. Yes, Press Barron. Yeah. So he ran Express newspapers and I did a joke and I thought I was so proud of this joke. and the Daily Express was bought by a bloke called Richard Desmond. That's it.

Porn baron? Yes, he was a porn baron. He did Reader's wives. That's reputable baron. Yeah. He did Asian babes, which you probably stock at the Asian society. Oh my God. At the Asiatic Society.

That's the librarian. And he did mega boobs. I don't know. He seems to be quite familiar with a lot of. of his output. I like to think... Didn't take any research on your part. I like to think that Mega Mind,

you know the film about the super intelligent villain? Yeah. Was a way of saying the flip side of Megaboot. More to people than the physical. The mind is equally mega. He also bought OK magazine, didn't he? Did he? Because he put Anthea Turner on the cover

when she got cancelled. In those days, she got cancelled if you posed with a flake. Oh, yeah. Do you know about that, Johnny? Yes. Yeah, that was, I like that. Did you?

Yeah, I thought it was good. I thought it was nice. I mean, I don't know. What was the argument that it was... Well, they just said it was turning her wedding. I mean, now it seems so quaint, doesn't it, to object to someone monetising personal stuff in their life? I think...

People literally, that's all, that's their job now. I think weddings, generally speaking, operate on such a high level of embarrassment that you might as well throw in sponsorship. I mean, because, you know, Either way, it's going to be... Yes. I don't think it would be an issue now.

So Richard Desmond, Laporn, Baron, he bought Express newspapers. And a lot of their daily express readers were outraged at a man from that background. And I did a joke which I couldn't wait to do. And I said, so Richard Desmond has bought Express newspapers. From now on, he'll be known as Lord Beaver book. Okay. Nothing. It got absolutely nothing. They didn't know who Beaverbrook was.

They didn't know Beaverbrook. They probably didn't know about his porn. Where did you do this joke, Frank? I did it initially at a club and then I tried it. Insanely, I then tried it on television thinking maybe a TV crowd or get it. They didn't get it either? Nothing. It's a bit niche for people.

But it's, I think it's a great joke. Lord Beaver book, what's the chance of that joke ever? I know. come in apt again. Do you think there's ever be a way of explaining it sufficiently beforehand and then doing it

or think that would kill it. I think that would kill it but if you could work out to do that. What I'd have to do is some Lord Beaverbrook material early on in the day. That's the thing you'd have to return to it. You'd have to be, you're right, lonely workers on some callback.

And then some Richard Desmond, easier to do because you could do mega mind, mega boobs. But I mean, having to crowbar in 15 minutes on Lord Beaver simply to make that joke at the end. What I liked about Reader's Wives is the idea that the people who bought those magazines were reading them.

Do you know about Reader's Wives? Have you heard of it? I've heard of it. It was a reality check. It's for people who like women who looked like they hadn't all done themselves up and were pouting and stuff, they look like women are you seen in the street. Oh, did they? Did they indeed? I liked it. Oh, God. I did know. I thought it was more, it was honest.

If you did the Beaverbrook material early enough that by the time you got... But what the fuck is my Beaverbrook? My Lord Beaverbrook routine. What will that be? Referred back to it, they would just think it was knowledge that they had in their heads anyway.

Johnny? You'd have to do it hours before. Would you describe yourself as an optimist? Because I'm getting that sense from this. You're a fix-it person. You want to make this work for Frank. It's said Frank. My dream is to get my stand-up back down to an hour and ten.

Oh, yeah. How much is it? How long is it currently? Oh, it's an hour and a half. Is that too long? Who wants that much comedy? Well, if 20 minutes of that is Beaverbrook, I'm in. But yeah, I know, but I can't have a 20 minute routine I love.

I'm researching. Maybe what if I do an Edinburgh show that's just on Lord, Beaverbrook? Panflet's on the seats. Yeah, exactly. I would so, I mean, I'm the only demographic. But people do it now. You do, do you do, do you do theme? I can't remember if your show was themed or not.

It has not really themed on the show that you see. saw it was called Catland and it was sort of themed around a New Year's Eve party I kept going into a kitchen and thinking that I was going to have this come up with this thing called Catland and which I never do. And then my last one. Please don't knock that

drink over by the way. Okay I'm gesticulating wild. You are your, yeah. I like a man who conversate. I do you, I'm quite bad for that and I don't know if you've ever read Cole Comfort Farm by Stella Gibbons. It's a fabulous, fabulous book I'd recommend.

But in it, he said they were a very, as she says, they were a very flamboyant family. They always spoke with Great Gosto. There wasn't an intact vase left in that house. Sorry, carry on, Johnny. And then my last show is sort of themed around just a, it's called AM, PM, and it's a day in my reception shop. Oh, but we like diversions off.

I see, I like these. because they're themes that are very lightly touched, if you know what I mean. Whereas if your theme is my wife's terrible illness, which I've seen like in Edinburgh, which now become an advert, of course, then it's a big theme. But I like a theme about just being at a party. And the one before was about some kids who are an apple at me. This is in Toughenopart.

But it was before I lived there. You moved there on the stress for that. I moved there on the stress experience. I don't think they were expecting to hit me. It's quite far over the road. I like it because it's quite old-fashioned violence. We were all impressed that it happened. And I just keep coming back to the apple being thrown at me

and then in the end that I just carry on with my life. Yeah. That's a kind of urchin crime, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. They were tough. I was chuffed, it was wonderful. What's the kid like an urchin? A little bit, but they were, honestly, there was...

Hold it, touched for the very first time. That's a bit unfortunate. As long as it wasn't a pink lady, because they're pricey and that's a waste. No, it's definitely a boy. Oh, thank. Really? It is brilliant to have an apple thrown at you. Yeah. I can't remember the last time an apple was thrown at me. Well, you never know. It could be your lucky day.

It wasn't windfall You're sure it wasn't windfall? What's windfall? Windfall is one of an apple Oh yeah, of course It was, it was, it was, it definitely was I'm sure of it. So you weren't thrown, it wasn't thrown at you, it fell.

No, oh, it had, I see what you're saying. I understand the confusion. It was windfall that they'd gotten and then chucked off. At least they hadn't picked them, they hadn't killed anything. Can I tell you my favourite apple story? Yeah, please. Is it William Tell? No, but you know what I keep that between us?

It was a private man. I have to say, William Tell, Adam and Eve, the two, Rue, one. They are a good one. Oh, no. And who's the third one? Sir Isaac Newton. Oh, yes. I've forgotten. I put Isaac number one. I didn't know that Apple anecdotes were so, if I may use a windfall, a term, so thick on the ground. They're spoilt for choice. Mine is not as impressive as that, but it's just something I remember. It was one of the poshest things I've ever heard, which was when I used to work at a fashion magazine, and there was a,

lovely, but like ridiculously posh girl at work there. And you know when you go on... Can I just, as a sidebar, can you tell Johnny about the stomach? Oh, yes. So, you know, working... I mean, I'm not proud of this. We've changed. We've come a long way.

We've learned. It's a bit problematic now. But we would sometimes, a lot of people strove to be thin. Yeah. Then in those days in the fashion world, I'm sure some of them still do. But what we would do as a result of this is if you had someone's stomach rumble in the office, you'd go Oh my word.

I know, I know. It's not good. We would not do it now. It's not good, but it's so fabulously. It's like the Palace of Versailles. It's awful. I can only apologise for our behaviour.

But anyway, this very, very posh woman who was brilliant. And you know when you'd go on a holiday there was that office tradition or I've brought back toffee or whatever or, you know,

something from American sweets. She came back and said, Hi everyone, I brought you all some apples from Mummy's Orchard. Oh, fantastic. It was so posh as well the way the apples were presented. I, um, my presents for Christmas this year. What did you get? I got a bar of soap and a glass blowing lesson.

Oh, how are the 70s? Yeah. I'm thinking I might make a glass dish for the soap. Is it in that, what sort of soap is it special? What's the soap like? What's the soap like? It's big. It is big. I'm frightened by big soap. You know that you've got like, I am. Sorry, I'm not going to let that go. What do you mean? Well, you know, I don't know if you're aware, but the top of your foot has got about 18 very, very delicate bones in it.

Oh, I know about the metatarsal. And if you drop a big, this is a, it says on the box 12 ounce. How big is it then? It's, how can I describe it? I would say it's about three by three square and then probably three deep. It's more like a square, yeah. Like this? Three inches.

Oh, inches, oh right. Boys, they can't see. Oh, yeah, yes. Maybe three and a half. I'm trying to think of something I could compare it with. How many inches in it is it? And I'll tell you again, three inches, did you say? I think it's three, I nearly said cube.

Bickman and I realised I didn't know what it meant and also it's in my jeans that I would then have to make it pubic so I'm just not saying why I can't help it I can't help it terrible impulse control it's called um onsen is the company of you oh yeah well as in Japanese onsen yes because I've been to an onsen I think I probably have it at the Asiatic in the in the bathrooms that's where raffles is bearing now I I've been to a Japanese onsen in Tokyo. Oh, okay. Well, it's a big sight.

Mandatory nudity, just FYI. Mandatory nudity, yeah. In the shop? Is it, yeah. That's what I was going to say. No, in the bathhouse. Oh. Well, I used it this morning with mandatory nudity.

I'm in a shower. I'd never use, oh, I suppose I'll wash my hand. You wouldn't use this to wash your hands. Maybe further on. I get to a point in the shower where I think you're falling through the holes there in my little cage. So I'm going to transfer you to the sink for hand washer. But this soap, it's like dirty soap.

Do you know that? You know dark soap? What colour is it? It drips darkness onto the thing. Well, like satanic. It's like bleeding. Oh, I don't like that. But it says on the side of it, and again I wrote this down,

it says Flamingo Estate, which sounds to be like a really rough council. I think it sounds like. Is that a soap named after it? It's the most... It sounds a bit Donald Trump to be. Flamingo Estate? Yeah. Welcome to the Famingo Estate. Well, I'm guessing it's... Is it a Japanese bird, the flaminga?

No, I'm thinking... Pelican you're thinking. No, I'm not thinking of anything. I said I have to completely open question and I'm not leading the witness. I don't think of it. Are you a bird watcher? I do like the pigeons. That's not what I associate with birdwatch. I know, and also the walk from pigeons of flamingo is a long road across rough terrain. I like you that you like pigeons though because that's most people's worst bird.

I think they're underrated. Do you? Yeah. Why? Because they're sort of, they're friendly and they're kind of needy. They need people. They never learnt to not be around people. They're like sort of feathered dogs.

They were a popular sacrifice in biblical times. Were they? Yeah, so handy, you know. Get them in your pocket. And Reuters. Really have to bring a goat still alive and then slaughter it on the spot. Also, don't you find wood pigeons? They think they're a class above.

Yeah, they do. Don't you think? They're a bit snobby. They've got a better voice. And they look a bit smarter. They're less tassie. They're a bit lottery winners of the pigeon world. I tried to make friends with them on the balcony, but alas, to never avail.

How did you try and befriending them? We got some, like a bird feeder with seeds in it. And I sort of sit and near it. Oh, that's so sweet. I'm hoping that one will come along. I don't want to see. They won't vomit. Do you know what?

I did actually in a shortage of every day walk past some pigeons eating a lot of vomit and I did think they were letting me down in my image of them. I mean, that's why I'd never snog one. Yeah. You don't really get pigeons starring in Disney films.

I mean, rats have had their moment, haven't they? Pigeons, pigeons must have had their moment. I don't think so. I think there's, you know. They do it. There's a lot of prejudice against them. Yeah, I'd see it. Not as many as the Seagull, probably.

Yeah, okay. It's hated by many, and I love them. Frank, you were talking about gifts you got. May I share with you some of my favourite top ten gifts this Christmas? Yeah. I mean, tens are stretched. Yeah, I had to to bring from the table. I know you're blowing me over.

the water. I'll just, so one of my top three, stain remover pen. It's a great gift. It's a pen. Is it tip-ex? No, it's a stain-remover pen for clothing. Oh, okay.

So it looks like, just like a regular sort of marker pen. It is doing the Lord's work. I got rid of tomato. I removed gravy. I removed toothpaste. She put it on before washing it or does it do it just... No, as soon as...

Out drunk, were you? That's, I mean, that's too. separate meals that was on there. You don't have gravy and tomato, presumably. I suffer from a lot of spillage. I'm very clumsy. You're not very clumsy. You know I'm Frank. You're being polite. I spill things all the time.

I always have been. That surprised me, because you wear quite light tops. I know. It's a nightmare. I? God's sake. No, but you do. You wear things I think I wouldn't wear that because it's, you know. Well, now I've got the stain remover at Penn. I'm

absolutely fine. It's in my pocket at all times now. What won't it handle? It will handle anything you want it to. That's him. That can't be true. Well, we'll put it to the test. Well, I'll bring the soap. Let the soap drip its purple blood on you. Can I tell you what else I got?

I got a jigsaw from my best friend Jane, who's also a very good friend of Franks. And it's a montage of all my favourite things. It's personalised. I think she'd balk at being called a very good friend of mine. She was. She adores you. I think I come out of this better than she.

She adores you. I adore me. That's what you've got mixed up. Yeah, you do adore you, that's true. So it featured all of my favourite things. So it had, I like strange things. Stranger things? No, I don't like stranger things.

I like strange things. Oh, that's a pity, isn't it? I don't like stranger things. It had an image of Henry VIII, who I love. Oh, really? I always have done. Don't ask me to explain it. It's complicated.

There was a picture This one would be Not come as news to Frank He knows these are my obsessions It was all my obsessions So I'm presuming they didn't buy this Off the Peck Well I'll tell you what was in it

There was an image of Henry VIII An image of Oddbaud From the Carry On Screaming films This can't be That must have had it mate An image of the Planet of the Apes actor Who played Dr Zias reading a biography of Mark Twain

On set in full ape costume Oh okay Franz Kafka Stephen's on time and Bacayo Saka. When I first opened it, I know, but I first opened it, and I just saw the Henry the 8th.

You know, when the A-level results list go up and you're looking for your name and it's not there. That's how I felt about the jigsaw. I've given this woman everything. I didn't make the fucking Kafka. You didn't make the cut, I've just realised. No, no, I didn't. Well, she didn't have.

I mean, odd bod's not a friend. Well, there wasn't a piece missing, wasn't it? Frank. Oddbord is not a friend. The odd bod from Carrie Hodd screaming is ahead of me. Stephen Sondheim isn't a friend. Is it one of those ones where if you look at it from a great distance, it forms like a big picture of your face?

Oh, maybe it does, Frank. There's still time. Like the ambassador in the National Gallery. If you get to one side, it's a big skull. Maybe it. It's true of my face. I've got to be. honest. I mean, I'm very stupid

because there was a moment when I opened it and I saw the Henry VIII nestling next to Oddbaud from Carri-on-Screaming and I thought this is very niche that a jigsaw company has produced jigsaws with these things on it. See, I'm thinking, you said I've got to be honest, I'm very stupid, I'm thinking that's the

trailer for the next show. That's my Twitter bio. So they had it made, especially. She had it specially made. So I was thinking. How many pieces? My minimum is a thousand. Because you know I'm passionate about jigsaw head. Yeah.

Oh, is that what we called? No, I don't know. But it's that, yeah, yeah. I want to get him into jigsaws. I think he'd like it. You don't like it, do you? I don't like games of any kind. Do you not, Frank?

No. I don't either. Do you do those jigsaws are just like a kind of a wash of color? Like really kind of, I've seen ones that's just, it's literally just a transition of color and you have to. I have done them in the past. I don't find them as satisfying. I, um, I played a game.

I joined in. You know, you've got to join in at Christmas. Did you play a game? Especially as a guy, there was a load of us together, mainly my brother-in-law's family and then my little crew. There was 18 of us. 18. And they played a game.

I think it's called Blood Under the Blanket. Does that ring any bells? No. It's rather disturbing. I've heard of some of you. I saw a documentary about the Yorkshire River. I don't remember that. Well, it's funny you should say that,

but we'll come to it in a minute. So it felt a bit like traitors. Right. So what happens is that you are allotted different roles. There are townsfolk and then there's some demons. So it's like a werewolf kind of thing, yeah. Maybe it's the same. Maybe that it's called that.

I hate games, but I thought I want to join him. And this guy made such an F and he's a life cap, so I thought I'll stick with him. But I fucking hate it. And there's a thing where you, You have to sleep. You sleep. Yes.

And then he goes around giving his... This is Werewolf. He's talking about Weirwolf. Okay. Weirwolf. So, Weirwolf is what Traitors was based on. I used to play it with friends. And the villagers go to sleep.

And then someone says, okay, wake up. There was a murder. Frank was murdered last night. But this guy's like 25 who organized it. We had to sit with our eyes closed doing nothing for like two minutes while the instructions were given. I'm 68. I thought, I just, I don't have this time.

The spare. Two minutes. I really felt a terrible sense of throwing my life away. But I was every sleep. I thought, well, no, another thing when I just do, I'm not reading anything, I'm not talking. Anyway, it went on like that. And the idea is it's a game where you have to lie.

That's the skill. It's also bullying involved as well. Is that? Well, you have to sort of attack someone and say, I think it was you, John. And I'll tell you why I think it was you because you're the kind of person who is a bit untrustworthy.

That's how the premise. Maybe yours was a bit more pleasant. I just can't work out why my wife wasn't better at it. But anyway, I, so I lied. Were you a murderer? I did a big pretending. No. I was the sort of neutral non-town.

But you were either a villager. Were you a townsperson? I was the butler. Oh, I didn't. Which is a non, it said it's sort of. neither a villain nor a... Oh, how bland. That doesn't suit you.

So I pretended that I couldn't remember the name of something because I wanted to be executed so I could get out of the game. So the only deceit I used was to get out the fucking game. Were you killed then?

Yes, so then I was out. Okay. And then I didn't have to... You'd be good if you still sleep so you don't see anything. I'm dead. But like I say It was a lovely social

Everyone else loved it But not Frank I cannot Oh games It's such a waste What about like Bogle or something Could you get on board with

Something more simple Is it the sort What are you getting now Johnny Oh no no No I'm sorry sorry I mean something where there's not so much

sort of like convolution Like it's more like If you play say wordle You're familiar with that Oh yeah Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think you're like one-on-one. I like things that say, are you cleverer than this person?

Not are you better at lying? That's not a skill I want. Yes. I don't want it to be the best manipulator and deceiver. No, okay. Doesn't it sound very Christmassy as well. I do want to be the cleverest person in the room. And none of them do I want to be that, but I need to be constantly establishing it.

Yes. No, I won't play that game either, that various forms of that, werewolf traitors, anything like that. I just find it, it just makes me stiff and stress. They would make me feel very stressed. It reminds me when I used to claim supplementary benefit, you've got to go in there

and act and pretend, you know, you're not, you're looking for work and stuff. I once played that game. A game of werewolf. I'm going to have to name draw. Oh, I thought you meant the supplementary penalty game. No, I didn't play that game. There's no game, let me tell you.

I earn that money. I once played that game. And this sounds like name-dropping, but it's relevant, I hope, and I think. I don't know. Maybe it's just terrible name-dropping, but I'm willing to take that risk. You generally are. I generally am, but I feel I need to ease Johnny into this. No, my name-dropping's great.

I love it. I think so, okay. I just don't want Johnny to be put off me and disliked. I'm very excited for this name. We don't know who he knows, at the Asiatic. Oh, that's true. Do you know there? Bert Kwong?

God. Is he no longer with us? Bert Quark. Quok, yeah. He's no longer with us. Oh, he was. I loved him. So, are you ready?

I'm ready, I'm excited. I was playing, I think it was Werewolf and Ricky Jervais was present. Oh yeah? Okay. Like the response, okay. And I was, you know, the equivalent of a traitor, a werewolf. But Ricky was sitting next to me on the sofa

and he decided to sort of commit to me early on. He had faith in me. And he kept saying, no, but I know it's not you, it's fine. I know you wouldn't do that. I know you're not that kind of person. I don't think you're a liar. And I start to feel really uncomfortable because he was talking about me as an actual person

and I thought, well, I am lying. See, I thought that mistake happened in this. If two people said, I think it's blah, blah, I think they took it as if it was a comment on them rather than their character. I don't like, I don't need that in my life. No, that's what was difficult. And he kept saying, I just know you're a trustworthy person,

you're quite honest, I don't think you would do that. And as I got deeper and deeper in, I started to feel awful, because I was drawing, Reading the reveal, I thought, I hope I'd die or something. I don't know how to get out of this. And then it got to the final minute, and I just thought I can't go through it. It's so awful. When it emerged that it was me, genuinely, I don't think he's been the same with me since.

He looked at me and he said, are you actually joking? Are you actually joking? You are a well. And I said, yeah. And do you know what? He was sort of left and he was a bit strange with me afterwards. Because I would be, if someone had been lying to me for three hours straight, that would change my opinion of them. But it's lying, but it is lying within the confines of the game

where you have to lie if you're that person in the game. What about when Pierre presented he wanted to do the podcast? Oh, my God, Frank. Oh, my God. Sorry, I just... You. But all I'm saying is, if Ricky is listening to this, I'm so sorry that I lied to...

I've been feeling bad about that for 10 years. Oh, for goodness. I feel every time I see him and he's such a nice bloke, I think he hates me. I've got to be gil. thing at the moment. What do you think of this? My son has inherited my camcorder. So he took it on a couple of holidays and you don't see kids. We don't see anyone with camcorders anyway. And then he said, can we go to snappy snaps and I'll see if I can get these, whatever you get them, digitalised. So I said they won't even know what this is. Anyway, they walked in. We walked in

and he held up his camcorder and said, I want to get a couple of the films, did his life. They said, okay, that's 35 quid each, straight in. But I thought it might be a tenor, 35 quid each. So he said, oh, no, forget it. And I said, no, I'll pay for it. And he said, no, I feel bad about it.

I said, I'll tell you what, and he's got a Waterstone voucher for 27 quid. and I said I'll pay for this and give me the waterstones voucher. Oh, that's fair enough. Well, it felt fair enough at the time but I

I lay a weight last night feeling like an absolute bathroom. You're taking the money off your sign. Not just the money. The voucher. But, you know, we had it with us because he was going to go into waterstones and spend it. And now I've

I can't, I'm going to have to give it him back. I can't fucking live with that. feel too bad. I can't live with it. Really? Any book I buy will be a shit book that ruins my life if there's any justice.

Yes, I think it's an... I don't know what that book would be. I think... 101 things to do with Dead Cat. You know those sort of books from the humour section? I hate the humour section. I don't want to be in comedy anymore

if this is it? I hate that, don't you hate the humour set? And you know what? More than that, I hate people that browse it. If I walk past and someone's browsing it, I think shame on you. People only buy it for it a comedy gift, which is always a mistake.

What a waste. I think that, I understand that feeling with Buzz. I think it's because he's young. I think once he gets to 18, you won't feel remotely guilty. Well, I'm giving him back anyway. You're not having your hands on that Amazon voucher, I got him. Keep your filthy

paws off it. I won't touch that. That was very generous, by the way. I always look after my boy. Well done you. That's what Anton DeBeck always says on No, I'm thingy. Do you want to hear something from the outside world before we go, Frank?

I always want to hear from the 187 has got in touch. I was listening to the episode recently where Frank talked about feedback he received when he was teaching. And it was feedback that he looked like a tramp. Do you remember that? That was from the headmaster. He didn't say I looked like a tramp. Oh, I'm sorry. When I left the school, he said, I'm worried that you might become a tramp.

That's it. He said, yeah, he said, you just got that feel about you. Well, I don't think that's true No, I didn't, I didn't. I was a little, I took it quite well, really. I thought it meant me feel a bit romantic. A night of the road, you know what I mean? It's just your itinerant gentleman impression.

But when I was expelled from school. That's just so we said, we are aware we can't say tramp anymore. It's just in the context of France. No, no, but that's what he said. Yeah, he said it back then, exactly. True. It's historical. Yeah. But it's, what do they call it?

Language. Historic language, isn't it? Yeah. But those warnings on talking pictures. When they show, like on the bosses and stuff. Oh, God. Or Shane. Now, when I was expelled, my headmaster said,

he said the thing, your problem is you're a drifter. And one day you'll drift into something you can't drift out of. That's a great line. But you did, and look how much money has made you. I joined the driftsers. Do you want... Friday night has finally come around. People are going, it's the white.

It's that guy at the end. It looks a bit like a trap. Yeah, the one with the stick over his shoulder with the spotted hankers. String round his way. 187 continues. It reminded me of the weirdest feedback that I ever received, this was given 35 years ago

at half term in a feminist studies course and it's haunted me ever since. Was the feminism 35 years? I suppose there was. It was the 60s phenomenon. Well, actually, I suppose we've got to give the suffragettes a bit of... Yeah, give the suffragettes, you know. My professor said,

Carol is a bit like wordworth's Lucy. If we don't poke her or prod her, the world will never know that she existed. I'm curious to see if Frank can come up with a good comeback in case I ever get this feedback again or find myself in a time machine en route to the 90s, 187.

What did he mean by that, Frank? As a poetry expert. What I would say about, I'm not a poetry expert. Okay. As a poetry, yeah, someone who's passionate about poetry. Words, words, Lucy, he makes the point that no one knew her, that a violet by a mossy stone,

and half hidden from the eye and all that stuff. Yeah. She lived unknown. It ends. She lived unknown and few could know when Lucy ceased to be. Okay. But then he says the speaker, but she is in her grave and oh, the difference to me.

Oh. And that's it. That people are seen as someone who don't, not really notice. But when you're a teacher, you're touching and touching. Don't make a joke at this. I'm not fine.

You're touching emotionally and intellectually. You are touching people. You have no idea how much. I've met people I taught 40 years ago and they said, I remember that thing you said about and you think, wow. Yeah, yeah. So, no, not invisible. So the professor wasn't necessarily being negative.

No, they might have been negative, but I think it's exploded in his face because that Lucy, in fact, is incredibly significant to the speaker. the speaker obviously being the poetic voice sounds very intelligent and sensitive whereas other people don't appreciate Lucy like he does. Did you hear that 187? Cancel the therapy? Frank Skinner-resolfer. That was the therapy. That would be four Guinness.

Is it still Guinness in therapy? No, Frank. They even accept contactless now. Do they? Yeah, it's all done over Zoom as well now. Did you know the therapy? I suppose there's a lot of people go to therapy. are contactless. Well, it saves on the tissues.

Yeah. Can you get contactless seances? Oh, God. That would be a waste of money. Sorry, Johnny. Anyway, Johnny, it's been an absolute joy having you.

It has very much fun of mum. Next time I'm at the Magic Circle, I might need to be into the Aziati. You could just pop your head in the door. I'll be just in a little booth. I won't be there. Have you ever been in the Magic Circle? Yeah, yeah.

I'm in the museum and all that. Yeah, yeah. It's really good. We go through our staff for Christmas. Do you? Suddy. Why are you laughing? I don't know.

Yeah, we've been there. Yeah, it's nice in there. How big is the staff? And we, because we get them. You're obsessed by the bloody Azeatrix? Well, I am. It's interesting place to work. We get a lot of their parcels.

And I think they've got probably... What the magic circle? Yeah, yeah. Because they're never in. They say... I won't ask what shapes they are. Rabbit, rabbit shapes. Two ears.

But I think they've got magic tricks in them. Or magic stuff. Right. Magic supplies. Brilliant. But yeah. But we have been... Wizard sleeve.

I'm going to get myself down there. Wizard sleeve. I don't want to end on that phrase. I don't want to either. No, no. Let's... Anyway, Johnny's been great having you on. I feel we are less strangers than we were.

Absolutely. We're all friends now. And can I say the next episode of Frank Skinner's Radio Days is out on Wednesday. We're still in two. 2011 for our best bits. And this time, I've been playing dot, dot, dot, dot, noughts and crosses. I mean, this is what people tune in for. I said I didn't like games.

Thus, I am hoisted by my own Ptah, by my own Jean-Lu Picard. It's the Frank Skinner podcast. A new winter change is blowing. It's the Frank Skinner podcast. I'm not totally sure how it's going. Thanks for listening to the podcast. Make sure to like and follow so you never miss an episode. And if you want to get in touch,

you can email the podcast via Frank Off the Radio at Avalonuk.com.