The Frank Skinner Show - Mark Watson

Episode Date: June 23, 2025

Mark Watson is our guest this week! Mark pops in to tell us about his upcoming tour 'Before It Overtakes Us' and his latest novel, 'One Minute Away'. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

It's Frank off the radio, featuring him and that posh lady-o, and the one with the French name, from South Africa came. They're all here, open brackets, hooray! Close brackets today! Da da da da da! This is Frank off the radio, I'm joined by Emily Dean and Pierre Navelli, and Mark Watson is with us this morning. A lot of radio shows and that they'd have applause there but we don't have the facilities. Yeah and it never sounds sincere when you know they've just pressed a button for applause. Well I'll do this and Mark Watson is here with us. Congratulations, congratulations. Nice to press here. Yeah I'll take that. That's so Cliff Richard at Eurovision.

It's better when the applause ends really suddenly. Hey! You can tell it's just a clip. I may have mentioned, when I have been on radio shows where they've introduced me and there's been applause, I applaud as well. Yeah, you can't not really. Like adding stock to it, just to thicken.

Follow the podcast on X and Instagram. You can email the podcast via Frank off the radio at AvalonUK.com or you can WhatsApp us on... Oh 7457 4177 69. I always choose that one. I choose randomands of Lovely Song, it's a classic. I know but it always ends on a lingering 69. Am I depicting kitchen? Is there any other kind? Well I like... Depends how it goes. Yeah short and sweet that's what I like. Efficient. Certainly. Frank we've got a guest can you behave? Sorry okay. Mark. He's a lovely man, Mark is. Mark, I've got, when I trailed you on our previous podcast, I said I think he's been

doing stand-up longer than me. That can't be, can it? It doesn't seem right, because I look really old and you look about 28. Oh, I am quite old, but you must be older than me because... I'm older than you, we're not establishing that. And less fantasy football was, you were also kids when that was on in which case you were like really ahead of my first gig was December 1987 there you go so I would have been seven then and it was hard to get my dad to call on the landline

and very few of the ages and see that. A lot of ageism. See, when I was younger, kids were regularly in full employment. Yeah. So it was absolutely legit. By the time I was seven, Alan Jones had a major career on his hands. It depended, but stand up, it was harder to break through when you were in your eights and nines. I think I started in 2002, so it's not quite true to say that. Oh man.

But then you were away from it for a while I suppose weren't you? Was I? Oh it felt like, well I don't know, when you were on telly a lot. Oh yeah that's a trouble, you get it into your head that television's the most important thing. Yeah, so I suppose net we've probably done a similar amount of stand-up but I haven't done all the stuff in between. Oh yeah, oh that's wild Carrie, I thought you were a contemporary, thank God. I mean we've, yeah, I've got those things that, you know those things that you put on people's heart chests, what are they called? Like a defibrillator. We've got one of those ready for you, it turns out you're much younger than I am. I'm 45 so I should make it through this podcast

at least, yeah. That's good. Now, I know you must have been asked about this a lot of time, but I have a personal experience of this. When you first started doing stand-up, you were sort of Welsh. Yeah, I had a slightly bogus Welsh accent. Well, fully bogus, I'll give you that. But did you decide I'm going to do it in a Welsh accent, did that happen and that's it Can I just give you a bit of background to this when I was a youth before I became stand-up? I found BRMB which was Birmingham radio on their football phone in I'd never done anything like that before And when I got on I spoke quite posh for the whole Conversation the radio, you thought it was your image, didn't you?

I don't know what it was, whether it gave me more gravitas or whatever. But my mates were in the other room, they had to be in the other room because if you remember the golden rule was if you phoned up, you couldn't have your own radio on. Sometimes DJs go, have you got your radio on? Have you got your radio on? As if it's like, oh sorry. What on earth are you thinking of? You maniac. The worst thing that's ever happened, you've got the radio on. So, yeah, so I did this thing. I had no plans to do it, it just happened.

And I think it was to make me sound more important. Have you ever tried to work out where yours psychologically came from? It was definitely to do with, it was almost the opposite of that impulse but for the same reason I wanted to sound a bit less sort of up myself I think. I basically, I'd done it in a character act at uni. I found it quite easy actually to do because half my family's Welsh, I'd also listened to a lot of Welsh bands and stuff in the 90s, Regis, Super Furry Animals, Cassitonia, Manics. There was a Welsh, huge Welsh sort of culture boom. And I lived in Bristol, I was down, so I was hanging out with the Welsh people all the time. And when it came to, basically

I didn't want to do stand up in my own voice because it's horrifying when you start out. That thing of hearing yourself back. So I thought if I just put an accent on, it'll just sort of take me out of myself a bit and it'll be more relaxing. But what I'd not banked on is it was also funnier because it just is a funnier accent which certainly in a five minute, that's the thing as well. When you're starting out, you're doing tiny, tiny bits, five minutes, six minutes. So having an immediate gimmick like that really makes you stand out. But it did then start to get away from me because I won a competition as a Welsh act and suddenly you've sort of got to keep it going. And then I was getting lifts to and from gigs and I was still having to talk about it.

Did you have to keep it up in the car? Yeah, one time someone drove me back from Torquay about five hours and I was doing it for the whole time. Oh man. Because I felt like it's too late to go back now. Having spent some of the evening with them and done the gig in the world, I couldn't just get back in the car and talk normally. I was in real difficulties for a while. Eventually, the cut off point started to be when I was on radio and TV basically and I

remember being on looses in the old, in the Ned Sherrin days and going to the pub afterwards, which they probably still do. Oh yeah, yeah. So I'm with all these people like him and who knows, Jarz Brandsworth, all of these people that I'd grown up with on the radio, I thought, I can't be doing a fake voice to these guys. So I just sort of calmly slid out of it and none of them noticed because they weren't really listening that hard I, in the first place. It's a bit like that woman who sneaked into the magic circle by pretending to be a man

and then didn't tell them for like five or six years and then one day just revealed it. It's funny. Yeah. She had to leave. It begins as a small deception and before you know it you have to arrange your whole life around it. Yeah, but you didn't have to leave comedy because you were English. No, no, I was, um, I was, I probably would have had to leave the Welsh Comedy Association or something if such a thing had existed.

It's funny, even Welsh people kind of mostly were taken in by it, but then of course Rod Gilbert started to become, Rod being successful was another thing as well. He and I started about the same time and I started to think, well this guy... Yeah, I think he was French for the first two years. That's the thing, luckily, yeah. Not one comedian does that real voice for the first five years. You actually hear Pierre's non-sahafrican. My real accent. Did Ron worry you a bit? Did you think, oh he sounds a bit like the real deal?

Well actually, it happened to him first. We were both on the bill at the, on the same new act thing and he said, and I, by good fortune I was on before him, so I basically cornered the Welsh thing, I remember him saying, as soon as you opened your mouth I thought, well bloody hell, and then we sort of haunted each other for the first, we even did a show together, we got on well, but there came a point where I thought, one of us has got to drop this and it is his actual voice, so. Either I go back to my natural voice or Rod adopts like... Your voice? My voice, yeah.

It's like face-off. Goes back to the front, yeah. I didn't feel I could ask him to pull a face-off really. So the first gig you did with your normal accent, how did that feel? I felt quite terrified. I think I did it in a... the first time I did it on stage actually was Welsh for most of the show and then in the final 10 minutes I said look actually no that was a real voice. It's actually a good thing to lie on an audience. It was quite a funny reveal but also you could see at the end people didn't know what to

trust whether it had been, so I was like I can't make a habit of doing this because everyone thinks I'd also but then done a 24 hour long show and I had to use my real voice for that because that really would be exhausting so it was starting to the cover was starting to crack. So sorry. Well basically I'm glad now that I because I don't know how long I would have continued it for but there are these people that I mean there's anyone that's well actually what's his name um there's an actor that always talks in American accent. Oh, I see. John Barrowman. John Barrowman talks Scottish or Canadian. Yeah, that is remarkable. So that's a bit more than...

When John Barrowman does Lorraine, I mean, he really goes to town. Well, I mean, when he's with Lorraine, yeah, he's like a chameleon. He goes big Scottish when he's with... Yeah, he goes chameleon from Lorraine. So if he spoke to an American, yeah, he would be American. And is it deliberate? Is it a thing he talks about? He spoke to me for 20 minutes, he was heterosexual by the end of it. Oh, Frank.

Where is I? Did he sound Midlands by the end of talking to you? That can happen as well. Listen, what I was going to ask is you did a thing called the Mark Watson edit. Yeah, that's a long... Which was a sort of a... Would it be fair to call it a greatest hits? Yeah, even though I'd only done four shows at that point.

But what I was wondering, does that mean that some of it was Welsh? I think I must have done all that in the real world, because otherwise that really would have been an absolute dog's dinner. Yeah. I didn't work. The reason I did that, by the way, was because I'd done four consecutive shows in Edinburgh and my agents were putting pressure on me to do it again, but I was basically, I've got no new jokes.

So they said, just do something called the Mark Walsh edit and just do your best bits. Looking back, it's amazing that I just went along with that. You shouldn't be doing the greatest hit show until, well, barely 30. It's like when someone writes their whole topography, but they've not really done anything yet. Yeah. I mean, I've done way more shows since then. In fact, this year in Edinburgh, I'm doing a like 20, sort of best of 20 years.

Um, so you, so you are doing the sort of greatest hit. Yes. You see, I've toyed with the idea of a greatest hits and I went back to my watch my first ever video And I thought There's now it's yeah Is your show called 30 years of dirt? Yeah, but it is yeah, but it isn't right It's all it's all new stuff, but I thought I'd quite like to do a greatest hits

But when I went back But I thought I'd quite like to do a Greatest Hits, but when I went back I thought this is disgusting. Well the reason I need to... I don't want to be associated with it. I would like to distance myself from this appalling... Can I say you're not wrong in some instances? No! I know! Yeah, see I think...

Is yours disgusting? No, but it is quite... It is Welsh. It's also just... I'm talking about stuff which doesn't mean anything to me now. I'm like, my earlier sets I'm on about predictive text things. That's the biggest problem I ever was So that's that's it That's why I'm only doing it as a like one-off experiment because I think it'd be fun to look back on it like do a routine And they say I mean, I don't know what I was talking about there. I know so I was newly married

I had no material was very naive with with hands. I think Be hard to deliver a routine now saying, you know when you But it's the thing which you haven't actually done for 15 years. Well, that's how I am with sex. Yeah For example, yeah I'm so sorry my heart. Is that more why you're distancing yourself from the filth? I can't even remember what this was What do these terms even mean? Yeah, it's become an acting role What do these terms even mean? It's become an acting role

Well on the subject of stand-up, let's not without without further ado as they say you are you are you have a new show Currently on the road Yeah, I'm touring from well. I've been to Australia With I'm doing it Edinburgh and then I'm out sort of in the autumn it's about sort of well it's called before it overtakes us it's basically about feeling in my mid-40s like things are starting to get away from me but specifically I had a conversation with a woman last year who well she was an AI it was a chatbot but I didn't know for ages the first time I've been as far as I know like conned into talking to um for ages, into a robot and it made me... Can I be rude? What was the capacity? What was the context?

What was the context? It was a date. Was it? No. No, it was... I'd been screwed over by this company, well, I may as well say it, Photobox, and they sent me a link to talk to what I believe was a customer services head and she kept using these sort of repetitive phrases, which now I think I'd be wary of it because we're all slightly more used to it, but even a year ago it still felt quite, I couldn't quite believe that she kept saying things like this is really disappointing, what can we do, how can we, and it sounded like, but it started

to be cyclical and I thought either you're thick or you're not a human basically. Could have been both, yeah. But the thing is, some people just do talk like this, like some people in customer service are sort of trained to be as bland as possible. Yeah. Quick impression. So it was hard to know. Quick impression. When you go into a shop, hello there, do you need any help at all? Why have you emphasised meat? Yeah. Have a nice day. Okay. So that sort of made me think bloody hell, and then I started, my son's 15, so he started showing me these things like chat GPT and all these things.

I came to the conclusion that in a few years I would be completely adrift of, well, all technology, but especially this kind of trend towards, I mean, there's a lot of AI talk and stuff, and obviously it's bad when it replaces art or music or those are the things to be truly scared about. But also just on a basic level, I don't like the idea that it's almost impossible to talk to an actual person about any problem in your life.

I've got to say, defence of chat GPT, I was in the car with my 13 year old son and my wife and she said, I'm due to have a blood test this week but my period's really heavy, I don't know if I should do it. And Boz went on chat GPT and said, should I have a blood test, why have a heavy period? And he said, it's a bad idea, the wait tea or period is dissipated before you have the blood test. It was all done in seconds. Well, this is the thing, I mean a lot of people sort of mock it for how, you see it all online, everyone's talking about how sort of inaccurate it is, but a lot of the time I think it's the opposite. I think it's chillingly accurate, yeah.

And sensitive about women's issues. It's able to talk to you like a person, yeah. Can I ask a question, why do people prefer, say in that instance, why do people prefer chat GPT over Google, say? I think Google gives you a raft of possible answers. Google just sort of picks up everything that everyone's ever said about it and fires it at you. Google's decayed as well. I think the first six results will just be the sponsored ones and then the next four will be stuff that people have altered with SEO.

What I like about Mark though is that when I plug in a stand-up show and people say what's it about, I always think, oh, because I don't do themes really. I'd see you as one of the pioneers of themes. They call me Mr. Theme. It's not a nickname I particularly enjoy. As sexy nicknames go, I prefer something else. Mr. Cellophane maybe? You'll see people in the street go, there goes Mr. Theme, thinking about his topics. What's the theme of your shopping? Yeah, yeah. Hey, Theme-o! What is it this time? Have a theme day! Well, it's

interesting. I think, I mean, Pierre and I sort of, yeah, been doing it. Are you friends? He's younger than me. No, we hate each other. Enemies and rivals. But we're sort of rough contenders. Well, no, I've been going for longer, but I'd say Pierre and I would probably have both worked in a period where there's a bit more of an expectation you will have a theme. Yeah, but I think you were doing it. I think you were one of the first people. I think of you as an ideas man, Mark. Is that fair? Well, again, they call me Mr Ideas. I have learned that one. I don't know again. What you need is a hyphen. Mr Ideas theme. I know, yeah, but I can't seem to get that going. I tried it as a hashtag and no one was really,

yeah, it's too fiddly. Frank, I don't know how I feel about you saying I think of you as an ideas man. It's a bit Donald Trump. It's the sort of thing you need to say to someone. Because Mark has things like... I don't think Frank and Donald are that similar. Like, Mark, if I'm wrong, went on tour and said I'm only gonna play places that have my initials So either M or W. Beginning with M and W, that was a stupid idea. That's what I call an idea. Yeah, I'm an ideas man, but they're not all good ideas. That's what I call an idea. Yeah, I'm an ideas man, but not all good ideas.

I went to some proper shitholes because of that. I did do it though, about 40 shows, all of them began either with M or W. And the 24 hours, I mean that's a big idea, the 24 hour stand-up show. I think I probably am better at ideas than actually writing gags actually. No, that's not what I was suggesting. No, that's what I'm saying. Are you not known as Mr. Gags? No, no, that's the Milton Jones joke.

Only on the S&M circuit. Yeah, and I've moved away from that circuit a little bit. Oh yeah, I'm still deep. The Gags thing gets easily... Your main role is just to wince at everything, Frank, because I've heard this podcast before and that just seemed to be... A lot of people have someone just to laugh at everything they say, but you're here to sort of basically just broadly disapprove. On a practical level, Mark, I once read about

level Mark. I once read about an American DJ who they set up a booth in Times Square and he did like a 72 hour radio show and about, I mean not miles into it, like about 30 hours you could see spiders on his desk and stuff like that you know it's a real, I mean yeah, how is it doing 24 hours? Well the big difference is 24 hours I've done it a few times now I did a couple as live streams during lockdown and stuff which was tougher obviously because no one's there, you're just getting the feedback from the audience like remotely but in a 24 hour show with an audience you just rely on the energy and that energy does dwindle I mean some people just go to sleep and stuff obviously but doing a radio show for that long in presumably almost complete solitude I reckon you'd go mad

much quicker doing that I mean I think about it quite a lot like stand-ups do get we do get unless it's a really awful gig you get quite a bit of validation minute to minute whereas it must be odd on the radio not knowing for sure that I suppose no people are like emailing in and stuff but... I just imagine that I'm storming it constantly. I mean seriously, I always did, I always thought this is going so well. I suppose that's the flip side, no one's there to tell you it's not going well. Well when we did the radio show, like when I did it with Pierre and Emily,

they had their screens their side of the desk, possibly stuff but my screen was always switched off as far as I was concerned I was rocking it. I think I remember you saying that on the on the radio but I didn't know whether to. No it's absolutely true. I remember doing a late night really late night one on some local well maybe not local but it was fairly small time and then they went into a break and I remember the bloke saying and we've got loads of messages coming, keep them coming in, we love hearing from you. And then I could see this, there was nothing,

there's bugger, it was real. I could see the producer just going, we're down for the last two or three things basically. Yeah, but that's a good example of how if you're on the radio, I suppose you can always say things like, it's lovely to hear from so many of you, and it doesn't have to be true. No, but yeah.

No one knows. But what about on things like talk radio and stuff? Well, yeah. People don't get in touch there. Yeah, yeah, that I mean, they must make it up. They must have mates ready to call in with an opinion if they have to. Maybe chat your BT. Tell me the sort of opinions a long distance driver would have.

Tell me what an angry man in Shingford would make about this new law. Another thing I saw of you recently, Mark, which I liked, was you hiding in your own audience. Yeah, I've done quite a lot of that sort of jiggery-pokery over the years. See, your ideas, man, that's why. It's because I'm known as Mr. Weird Beginnings. So the clip I saw, you'd been, and I'm taking your word on this, you'd been hiding in your own audience for about 20 minutes. Was it in Brighton? On notice. Yeah, it's surprisingly easy to do. No one expects the Comedian to be roaming around.

I've done it quite a lot in my time. I think it's because, I mean, I've done things as well where I've like jumped out of a box or more like Izzard style stuff, but mostly I think the reason is, it's a little bit similar to the not wanting to talk in your own voice thing. Again, Pierre will probably corroborate this. Almost the worst, well, you'll have had it as well. That moment where you go on, I think the reason is it's a little bit similar to the not wanting to talk in your own voice thing.

Again, Pierre will probably corroborate this. Almost the worst, well you'll have had it as well, that moment where you go on, not if some compere brings you on, but in a solo show, that bit where you basically have to say, and now please welcome, and everyone knows it's you. So basically we'll do anything to get past the awkwardness of the first five minutes. See I never do that. I just walk on. Do you get your comp attitude?

I just literally walk on. I just, yeah, I like to be discovered. Well, I mean that is better, I think that's better than... You introduce yourself don't you Pierre? Why don't they get someone to do it? You sometimes do, I mean you'll get people that have the bloke at the back of the room but however you do it I think there's just, it is an awkward bit so if I can sort of ambrose the audience by starting in a weird way so we're already in it without a formal... I went to an audience with the Pope and he just came out and started talking and I remember thinking...

No one brings him up by going, the Pope! I remember thinking, that's it. You might recognise him. Yeah. Whatever you think about the Pope, he's prepared to back himself when it comes to it. I guess he's got the sort of audience that are really up for it. Yeah, but you know, my name's on the ticket. Surely that should be some sort of clue. The Pope is an extreme example.

He doesn't have a support or anything, presumably. No, no, he didn't have a support. He doesn't send the Cardinal on to just do 20 minutes of, ooh, we got in here. Crowd work. Yeah. When I was new, I always thought, I wish maybe that you'd have like a really competent tech.

He'd be like, I'll introduce you. Yeah. I'll do it over the mic. And then one day, I got that offer from the guy. And I thought, great, here we go. I don't have to do this horrible soft intro. And I said, yeah, yeah, just introduce me. Just say, please welcome to the stage, Pierre Novelli.

And he went, yeah, yeah, yeah. And then at a microphone volume barely louder than the music just said, ladies and gentlemen, please welcome stage pierre uh uh barely audible no clapping just confusion and then you've done that sorry mark frank introduced someone who did you do that to oh no i introduced um joe wilkinson as jack whitel same initials but that's where the similarities end in a lot of ways

yeah but because joe looks at me with like, you know he's got those eyes like crossing boots can do that. Truly, truly melancholy eyes on that man. He whispered to me, it's Joe Wilkins. Which, not, it'd be funny mate, you've got both names wrong. I'm sure we all have, I've had times when I'm MCing and you think, I just cannot remember the next bloke's name. I think the only thing you can do in that situation is get them clapping and cheering and then go, yeah, I'm there.

But they know, walking up, they will look at you like, that wasn't my name. Yeah. Another thing I saw you doing recently was getting the audience to boo like commas. I did do that very recently in a sort of, I've been doing a couple of children's gigs, I've never attempted it before and I did that I thought I sort of pantomime type antics, the kids were like this, someone came in late, booed and then it occurred to me there's no reason to confine that to children's gigs, basically everyone loves booing. I started it in a, well but in Melbourne Festival I had a room

where almost every night some, a few people were coming in late and because of the layout it was really distracting and they had to walk all across the middle of the room so I thought you'll see comics can talk themselves in all sorts of ways to get out of these situations or just pick on them. But I didn't want to directly abuse them but I also couldn't really ignore it so basically I just made the rest of the audience take it out on them. Keep the mob. Exactly, yeah. Agitate the mob. I would then pretend I Keep the mob. Exactly, yeah.

Agitate the mob. I would then pretend I had nothing to do with it, obviously. It's funny, people, like, in general people don't like, or a lot of people don't like the idea of, you know, any sort of participation, joining in on any level, but you can always get people to boo. Like, those basic panto instincts, RNS, people love a bit of booing. And rightly so in a way. The trouble is like, that's designed for the way that we do it in a festival. Like in Melbourne, there's eight or 10 people all come in, they've all been, they've herded

them all and then they, it's a bit rough if just one couple comes in and there's 500 people cheering them. That's the sort of thing where you imagine them having a furious argument in the car home. I remember with my ex-wife used to, if we were even seconds late she would just be like, let's not go in, let's not go in, because of that fear of, it's such a high-risk thing to do as a date I think. And I'm quite kind of, I'm pretty gentle with audience members. If you come and see me as a couple, I'm never going to actually ruin your night, but a little bit of gentle booing from the rest of the crowd is possible.

No, I like it. See, my wife does this thing. If we're meeting anywhere and she gets there early, she will call me up and say, where are you? Even if you're not late yet? If she's 20 minutes early. I'm about 20 minutes away. Exactly. So look, we need to talk also because, um, Mark Watson comedian slash novelist would also be fair description. Yeah. They call me Mr. Books. But you've written a lot.

They don't actually, cause a lot of other people have written books, unfortunately. He's written one. They're everywhere. Yeah. I, um, No, I was about 200 years late to get in on Mr. Books. I've written quite a few. This will be the, this one coming out now is the eighth novel and I've written a couple of other ones and stuff like that. Because that was sort of what, that was my main, starting out, that was what I wanted, really.

And unlike most celebrities, you write for adults. Well, yeah. The kids book thing is out of hand now, isn't it? Yeah. Yeah, it's, you can see why they do it. It takes less time to write a kids book, I think. There's just not as many words in them. No. And you can pad it out with pictures and stuff. Yeah, it's um, can see why they do it takes less time to write a kid's book I think there's not as many words in them. No, and you can pad it out with pictures and stuff Yeah, yeah, I would like to write children's but I've got now like a 15 and 11 year old, but I don't know I mean well now you've said that on air about it's easier and you can just pad it out

It feels cynical right? Well, yeah, and already that's the sort of thing which people who are genuine children's authors are furious about I'm rightly so they're already angry that Malper goes throwing these some sort of thing which people who are genuine childrens authors are furious about. And rightly so, they're already angry. Mal Pergo's throwing his iPhone against the wall. He'll be whacking his replica horse against the wall. I think you'll find this a Panama hat he wears at all times. I have seen him with a Panama hat on. Panama? Of course I have, because anyone has ever seen him. I've seen him in all purple.

Absolutely everything purple. You can edit this the way you want, I'm at the mercy of the but I would like to go and recognise that it's not easy to write a children's book, it's just easy to write a half-hearted one if you are a famous. I get the impression it's easier to write one of those ones that's called Granny's Toilet Hot Air Balloon or something. Yeah, classic Christmas, the ones that do down the reputation of all other... Couple of sentences per double page. Yeah, yeah, that that do down the reputation of all other couple of sentences per double-page

People horrible and disgusting yeah, you're on to a winner with children If you just call it aren't people awful the trouble is children will like it I suppose you know there is this realm of beautifully written children's books And those must be the people that get furious when the number one Kids book is what I think was funny is like well our dear friend David Baddiel writes them Yeah, to be fair in fact my daughter listens his audio books quite, so Bedeelz is the last voice I hear at night often. He reads the books of a lot of people who live in our road. Right, yeah.

It's that kind of area. No, he does genuinely like those books. It's like he's saying goodnight to the whole street, yeah. They can just shout across bedtime stories, read by the author. What I find funny is when it is one of these ones like Uncle Stinky's pharmacy but then whoever is the celebrity says it's always been my dream to write a book like this. That's like the equivalent of a footballer going, growing up I always wanted to play for Angst. I've come to feel like Uncle Stinky is a friend of mine, a real person.

People are about to guest on Doctor Who and say yeah I remember watching Doctor Who from behind the sofa when I was a kid. I just think that is the biggest lie. You didn't. No one ever claims to have been in front of the sofa. Yeah exactly. Also our sofa was against the wall. I don't know if I took it in the back entrance. Mark what sort of question? Do you like Doctor Who? I've never been a big fan. I'm not against it. I've never got into it really.

Let's get back to the novel. You're growing on me Mark. It's called One Minute Away. If someone doesn't initiate you to it, then you sort of missed your window a bit, I feel like. I feel like I'm always missing opportunities to... And it feels like there's been too much of it now. It's been over 60 years. There's been plenty of windows. I know, but the longer it goes on, the worse it is.

It's like The Arches, I feel like that shit has sailed. I agree, the longer it goes on the worse it is. Anyway, back to Frank in the studio. So Emily has read your new novel already from cover to cover. That's unbelievable. I know, I really like your writing though, I've read it because you came on my doggy podcast. What's it about, Em? Well, I'll send you all about it. Brush the two of you together. Let's see if it was cover to cover it. I'll be like David Baddiel shouting it down the street. So it's called One Minute Away. That's right, yeah. And it's about the gig economy, essentially.

So it's about a delivery driver, a food delivery driver, and this whole chain of events. But one thing that I found fascinating, I feel like we're doing a posh book. No, no, so me and I have stepped back completely from this. This has gone right the old way. This is my Martine McArchand moment. Now, one of the things I really like is the level of detail in terms of the research into how that works, how the deliveries happen. I didn't know any of this stuff. You've really researched it. I read a couple of books, one buyer bloke who'd sort of done a deep dive into it and one anonymous book buyer delivery driver. I also managed I read a couple of books, one by a bloke who'd sort of done a deep dive into it and one anonymous book by a delivery driver.

I also managed to get a couple of them to talk to me using, well it's Twitter at the time. Oh, because I wondered if you were just ordering food all the time and like interviewing them and they're going, oh no, that Mark Watson. Or knocking them off their bikes when they pull out right in front of you. Yeah. Hello, I know you're in a hurry but I'm writing a holding up holding up the bit of the app where you adjust the tip percentage That's right. Yeah. Yeah, the more you tell me the higher this number

Yeah, it was quite a good thing to research obviously because none of them Well, all of them have got things they want to talk about but they generally want to be anonymous and of course Yeah, but I managed to talk to a few and also just I paid lots of attention for the couple years I was writing it to these guys like everything about them like what they're like on their bikes and just if I saw if I went past restaurants with a lot of these like guys waiting to pick up I'd sort of obviously again you don't want to be that guy that's like hello can we talk for a few minutes but I basically just try and spy on like delivery people for a couple of years and yeah the book is kind of about that it it's been marketed a bit as a sort of like you were Gaogan in Haiti yeah sort of preying on the locals yeah

like the more benign version of that I think to be fair it's not exactly the bang bang club club isn't it? No, just the fried rice, filtering fried rice. Just yeah, mootseing around out so much. Bang bang chicken maybe. Yeah, bang bang chicken club, yeah. People that take photographs of delivery drivers. It is sort of, it looks from the book like a bit of a, almost like a wrong comment, it's because the book is about a delivery driver like meeting, having a relationship with a customer. A customer. It's given me a lot of food for thought, I may say. Thank you. No pun intended. Nice review. Yeah. Well I've me a lot of food for thought, I may say. Thank you. No pun intended. Nice review. Yeah. Well, I've seen a lot of handsome delivery drivers.

Who are you saying? There's some fit ones out there. I mean, they're all in great shape. Obviously, they're on their bikes the whole time. It's a lady girl thing. Yeah, but now they've gone for the e-bike. Well, true. They're getting a bit flabby. Well, that's a big part of the plot.

The crucial moment in the plot is actually between the transition from bike to e-bike. Yeah, there's all these hierarchies of people. It is a fascinating world and I wanted to write about that but yeah the book looks more like it is a kind of cutesy romance so I'm glad that you said it. Oh I really enjoyed it. I think it's a brilliant book. My friend Adrian Childs did a documentary about e-bikes in which he really really criticized how dangerous they were. And then at the end he said anyway to some-up and I thought I was really gonna go in for the kill now. I think there's a lot of real good things about an e-bike and I thought right

someone's giving him a free one. Yeah come on. During that gap in the filming he got a free one. Yeah yeah having slagged e-bikes off for the whole of this I've come to a surprising conclusion. The free one's a pretty good one. There's not so much e-bikes. The one I'm currently sitting on is absolutely lovely. That's really funny. Oh man. I tell you what, you made me feel very old recently, Mark. Again, looking at your various social media things. You said, I'm doing this show, I'm hosting this show and it's only 20 quid a ticket, that's three pints and I thought Oh my god, is that how much three pints cost now? Funny thing is I don't think I would have written that because that sounds like something that someone wrote on my behalf

because I don't think I'd normally do it in terms of pints You've got someone who writes your social media now Oh no, every word I write is someone else's work now, the novels, all of it No, I've just got a young man who does specifically things like TikTok for me because I can't bring myself. I don't understand really what I'm doing with it. I understand it. But is it true?

Because I don't know what beer costs. Well, I suppose. £20, £21? In London. In London. Three pints. You wouldn't be surprised. Yeah.

£6.50 a pint minimum in London. Not everywhere, but. It's... No wonder people are going down the K-hole. Yeah. You can't just bring things like that up out of nowhere. They're just shopping around. It's the simplest I think.

It's 20 quid a ticket, that's one big K-hole. Yeah. Come on. 20 quid, that's one big bag of drugs. I think that conversation is the definition of, well, that escalated. Literally talking about how much is a pint and he's ended up in the K-hole. All these people, all these sort of boomers that say things like you'd be able to buy a house to the 20 or if only you gave up your take away coffees, it'd be more relatable

if they said if you gave up the ketamine you'd have a mortgage in no time. At least people have respect that advice. So let's sum this up again. When does the tour begin? When can someone living in the UK go and see my... It starts in the middle of September, I think. The book is out soon though, July 17th. Yes, and I really recommend it. You're one of the first people to read it, so imagine if you said, I've disappointed her, see. I was shit! Don't take that you said, I've disappointed Ashley. I wish I did! Don't take that as context, it wasn't shit. Give us the titles again.

It's called One Minute Away, the book, and it's about Deliveroo, Deliveroo, and the tour is called Before It Overtakes Us, but I always think if you just Google it. That could have also been about Deliveroo. Deliveroo, yeah, could have just used the same type for everything. Yeah, it's a feminist theme transport this time. Big themes man. Before it overtakes us, sounds like a book about caravanning. You know that terrible fear that you're going to see at the side. I was stuck outside behind a caravan for Endeavour this weekend.

Yeah, I'd write a book about someone cutting up caravans. The fear that they might come loose and overtake you. That's the worry, isn't it? You can't trust a caravan at all on the road. Absolutely awful. Mark, it's been a joy. It's been really nice, yeah. Thanks for letting me sort of lay my themes on and ideas on the tree. And your ideas, and your ideas.

No, honestly, I think of you as a sort of... You know Sophie Cowley is the French conceptual artist. Yeah, people compare us all the time. Yeah, but compare us all the time. Yeah, but it is. She did a thing like she was at a party and a bloke said, I'm going to Venice for the weekend. So she said, oh, you've got to get up early.

And he goes, no, I'm on the 10 blah, blah flight. She bought a ticket for that flight. And she trailed him around Venice taking photographs and nights of where he went and stuff, asking people about what had happened there. And then she did an exhibition, never told the bloke anything. I have heard about this I think. This is a Mark Watson type. Oh I love that idea, you're right. It's a great way to get away with stalking. Yeah, yeah. It's not stalking, it's art. It's actually homework for art. This is my work. She's a remarkable woman.

She got a job as a chambermaid at a hotel and just went through people's stuff and took photos and all that and did that as an exhibition. What you're doing when you put the sign on to say, please clean my room. Yeah. I assume you're not looking in my pants, but you might, right? Please don't use my room for conceptual art. That's the sign I hang in there.

Please make up my room, brackets no art. Do make up my room, don't tell the actual truth about it. The closest I've seen to art in a hotel room is have you ever had them fold the towel into a little animal shape? Oh, this one? Yeah, amazing stuff. I've had toilet paper as a flower. That's nice, isn't it? Yeah.

Is it? Well, it's a shame when you think about what's going to happen to it. Well, exactly, yeah. It looks less good. It's nice that it began its life like that, at least, yeah. I don't want to gild the lily. I think it's time for one more O, Frank, for you. Mark, thank you so much for coming out.

It's been really fun. Good luck with the tour, with the book and with all your amazing ideas and themes to come. Thanks. I'll just quickly say hello to Ken, my father-in-law, because I know he's listening. He loves the podcast. Love Ken. I love Ken.

And come back home when you've done your cynical children's book. Oh, what was it? It'd be really funny to come on two years time promoting this, yeah. What's it called again, Paul? It's called Uncle Stinky, was it? Yeah. Uncle Stinky's toilet pipe.

I workshopped it with Pierre. I'll do the drawings. It's always been my dream, Frank, to write. I'll be down there. I know that. Always been my theme. Yeah. It's Frank's Love the Radio.

Frank's Love the Radio. Frank's Love the Radio. it's the Frank Skinner podcast don't you know. Thanks for listening to the podcast. Make sure to like and follow so you never miss an episode. And if you want to get in touch you can email the podcast via frankofftheradio at avalonuk.com.