The Frank Skinner Show - Snooty Ghoul

Episode Date: November 15, 2024

The team discuss a recent trip Frank took to the theatre and Pierre's walking holiday in Verona. They also debate the word Brat and ask one of life's most important questions 'who is the King of Darkness'? Email Frank, Emily and Pierre [e-mail] Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

As a Fizz member, you can look forward to free data, big savings on plans, and having your unused data roll over to the following month, every month. At Fizz, you always get more for your money. Terms and conditions for our different programs and policies apply. Details at fizz.ca. It's Frank off the radio, featuring him and that posh lady-o, and the one with the French name, who Africa came they're all here open brackets hooray close brackets today

So there's a theory that if Pope Boniface had taken a different side in the civil war that ripped apart Florence at the time that Dante wouldn't have been sent into exile. And a lot of people think that if Dante wasn't in exile, bitter, broken, angry, he wouldn't have written his great masterpiece, The Divine Comedy. Welcome to Frank Off the Radio, the Frank Skinner podcast. I'm joined by Emily Dean and PN Veli. Follow the podcast on X and Instagram. You can email the podcast via Frank off the radio at avalanuk.com. I do wish that X was a place where you

could look up your exes. It'd be so much easier if one's exes were all in one place. Yes, yes. Consolidate your social media stalking into one big monthly stalk. Yeah, you know when you're looking them up, like, hoping that things haven't gone as well as they might have. Oh yeah, hopefully looking for bad things to have happened. Yeah, wouldn't it be great to just like flick through them like a card index? One personal tumble after the next. Just a stock market thing.

I think Elon Musk uses it to keep track of his children. Does he have a lot of children? Oh, he's got a lot. I mean, don't ask me to name them. No. Because even he can't pronounce it. But yeah, they're... I didn't know that.

What were you saying? He was one of the... One of the profligate. Yeah, one of the high profile player people. Okay. Sorry to hear that. There was me thinking he was a great bloke. Oh my goodness.

So my gardener came today. He only comes twice a year, leave it. And he prepares the garden for winter and he prepares it for summer and that's it, I don't see him again. He's a lovely bloke, he's called Greg. He used to be the drummer for Dirty Falcon. Did he really? Yeah. He could still be with a twice a year work schedule.

Yeah, yeah, well I think he's still in. He's got some time. He's still be with a twice a year work schedule. Yeah, yeah, well I think he's still in bands. I like that he's kept the band sort of quite outdoorsy as well. I think he's in a different band now. I think Dirty Falcon was a band that I played. I used to have a radio show and I played it on there. So yeah, so he asked me, we always talk about what gigs we've been to and I was saying I'd been to see various bands of light and he said, oh, I went to see Dr. Strangelove, which is the, it's in the west end of London, a large conurbation in the

southeast of England and stars the popular actor and impressionist Steve Coogan. I love your footnotes. Yeah, well it's almost never assumed. This is the first AI podcast. Just never assume that yes, Steve Coogan the mute yellow bear, as I think AI describes Sooty. Yes. So anyway, I went to it. I was at the opening night of Docte.

Are you familiar with the film? Very, yes. One of my favorites. Yeah. Okay. I've seen the film, but probably 40 years ago. Yes, I have. My parents used to make me watch it instead of things like play school and normal things.

Yeah, my parents didn't do that. Although I was grew up in the age of two TV channels, so you either watch this or you watch that. Well, it was revolutionary to bring a toothbrush home in your household. No, but wasn't it marvelous that things like the Radio Times then was like in its element. It was only two channels.

Which is impossible to keep track of all these shows. I need a magazine to read. The great thing about it was me and my parents would sit in our council house and watch like a hard-hitting left-wing play for today. And then at the end my dad would say, well, that was a funny ending. And then we'd watch a debate program with like Dennis Norden arguing with the Archbishop of Canterbury. Choice isn't everything it's cracked up. Yeah.

Believe me. Anyway, I went to see Doxister. I love Steve Coogan. I've worked with him and I've known him a long time, but I mean I love him as a performer. And it started off, I did enjoy this and I forgot to ask Greg if it happened when he went, but I will check up. There's a man on stage holding an enormous piece of paper. I think it's supposed to have some sort of information, but it's massive, like a big broadsheet newspaper. And I thought, well, that's got to be Coogan, hasn't it? And he stands there for a bit, and then he takes it down. And obviously, the idea is everyone realizes it's Coogan. There's a great big cheer cheer and off we go.

Nothing. Oh no. I know. I mean it might have worked the other nights, but the opening night, nothing. You see celebrities, they won't give you the appreciation. Oh, then he's got a big piece of paper in his hand that he doesn't want and has done nothing for him. But they're going to take the show to the Isle of Man?

It's going to be an absolute trial. I asked Pierre earlier if he had ever had a Manx knob. What? Don't make the podcast like that. A Manx knob is a minty sweet that you can buy on the Isle of Man. It is and it's a very, they don't lean in too hard to the sort of chuckle some obscenity of it, although on the packet there's a little disclaimer that says, size of knobs may vary such is life. Yes, I mean that to me, they've gone too far.

I don't like it when they know. I don't like being in the middle of this chat. I just don't like it when they know. I don't like being in the middle of this chat. I just don't like it when they know. That's why I love Richard Madeley, he doesn't know. That's true. That's true, yes. It is. That's what's brilliant about him. But when people know, ugh. That's what's wrong with Gogglebox. What do you mean? They know. They know what they're supposed to be doing. Who they're supposed to be.

No, I quite like it when they've got the confidence, as I call it. Confidence is one thing, but self-parody. Didn't she go out with Johnny Depp? Anyway... I'm still mortified for Coogan. Not one person, not one of you. It reminded me of... I worked with Peter Egan. A very fine actor.

And he told me he'd done a play with Wilfred Hyde White. I've told you this story, Emily, anyway. And it was a restoration comedy. Do you know Wilfred Hyde White? No. He was, I remember seeing a film where, in the credits, it said, Man in Marquis, Wilfred Hyde White. I literally just spat my tea out. And it was a, I only knew him as an old man,

I don't even remember him as a young actor. But he was like, you know, a comic actor and popular. And anyway, he had his moment when he walked onto the stage, because often they do it. Coogan was on from the beginning. I think it works better if people have settled thinking, oh, where's the star? And then he comes on. Anyway, so Peter Egan is a young actor. Wilfred Hyde-White comes on. It's a restoration drama and nothing he gets nothing and he carries on and at the end he says to Peter Egan I'm afraid I I didn't get my little round And

He said to him I think what he is what it is Wilfred is that because you were looking at me and you were in profile, he said, I think that made it, they didn't get it. And he said, oh yes, of course. So the next night he came on literally staring at the audience. Nothing. Still nothing. And then Peter Egan said, I suppose it could be the wig, but you can't really do much about that. The third time, Wilfred comes out cradling the wig in his arms, looking straight at the audience, gets a round of applause, puts his wig on and carries on acting. I mean, a lot of credit for sticking to it. My God.

I saw, this has become theatrical anecdotes. You won't hear any complaints from my direction. Do you know Anthony Quayle? Of course I know Anthony Quayle. We all need cigarettes for that. Yeah, Anthony. For two theatrical anecdotes. Yes. Anthony Quayle was quite a serious actor. And I saw him in a play and he walked on and he got a

round of applause and he looked at the audience like, TARE! TARE! to applaud me when I'm in character. I was terrified. The flip side of Wilfred Hyde White, which funnily enough is the title of my memoir. So I love those actors that only become famous when they're old. So yes. That's just like...Fingers crossed.

Yes so I've just been offered a part actually in the Palladium pantomime. Are you allowed to say this? I don't think there's any legal, I haven't decided yet. Oh have you? I think I, it's Robin Hood and I love Robin Hood. Are you Robin Hood then? Oh no, they're not offering me Robin Hood. Well who are you? Julian Clare is Robin Hood. You're not the friar.

Of its time. Lots of men in tight strokes coming. Oh yes. Surely. Yes, but I love a bit of Robin Hood. I actually think you're a very fine actor, Frank. Anyway, so I saw Coogan after. This is the opening night and then I think I might have made a slight faux pas.

Oh God. You? Because I said to him, I have to say. I feel ill. Because everyone went on about the film all night. I don't really remember the film that well. It's been 40 years ago and also I don't want to do prep for going to the theatre. No.

And so everyone said oh it was that bit was like the change that bit like the film. Shut up about the film. I can only take on one medium at a time. How was the show? As I remember a mystic Meg saying to me once in one of her Saucy of moments. Anyway, I said to him, look, there's one thing I remember about the film and that is the bloke in the cowboy hat, who I think was Slim Pickens in the film, who did a very fine Wild West old timer. Well, you guys better get out of there now.

He was one of those guys. Yeah. And he, I don't know if you remember this, but he's straddling this bomb as it heads towards Russia and he's got his cowboy hat on and stuff. And of course, I spent the whole night thinking I'm really looking forward to Steve flying around the theatre on a bomb. I don't know if you've seen Mary Poppins in the West End. No, I haven't.

But she goes right round the audience on her umbrella. I don't know how they do it. I'd find that quite unsettling. Oh no, I like it. It was all respectably done, if that's what you're thinking. What were you thinking? A thick, hooped tight is not going to arouse anyone. Think for yourself. Don't challenge people like that, Frank.

Can I just, I'm getting- You know when I saw Kiss? Yeah, and he flew around on the air. And he swung across the theatre, Frank. Can I just, I'm getting- You know when I saw Kiss? Yeah, and he flew around on the air. And he swung across the theatre, Paul. Yes, Pink does it a lot. Does she? Sort of wrecking balls and all. I think theatrical flights, you know, Miss-

We're living in a golden age of theatrical flight. We are. Miss Saigon has an enormous helicopter coming down. Alright. Oh. Yeah. Phantom of the Opera and the Chandelier. That was a enormous helicopter. Alright. Oh yeah. Phantom of the Opera and the Chandelier. That was a while ago. Did that fly though?

Yeah. Listen, can you just, I'm feeling a bit sick. Anyway, I said I was a bit gotted you didn't actually fly around the theatre. That was what you said to Steve Coogan? Yeah. Did you say well done you were amazing? Oh yeah. Okay. But he wouldn't have been on the bomb anyway. I know he wasn't. I don't think you did.

There is no bigger fan of Steve Coogan than I. I think he's masterful. But he should have flown on the bomb, that's my theory. But he's playing the Peter Sellers characters. Yes, well he's playing and he's also playing the Slim Pickens characters. Is he as well? Yeah, he tops Peter Sellers. He's earning his money. What did he say when you gave him one of your helpful notes? Gosh. I think he said, alright, Paul, what are you doing?

And walked away. No, I don't think it was quite... I really meant it though. I'd already said he was, you know, like I say, he is brilliant. And he's German scientist, you know, that bloke, which he plays a bit like a German Andy Warhol. He's really fantastic. And he's great, but he should have flown on the bomb and the chat. You know, he should have. So that's what I think. It's a bit of a coincidence, but you mentioned Dante's exile at the start.

Last episode we talked about Friar Lawrence. And I recently visited Verona where those are the two things that the guide probably talked about the most. Oh, okay. Okay. And a little walking tour. What about the two gentlemen? Didn't they get a mention?

They were completely shunted to the side in favor of Juliet balconies and things like that. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, what do you guys think about this? We've all done public speaking. We've all had to try and keep an audience engaged. We had an older woman who I think had been running tours, walking around Verona for quite a while, very Italian, aggressively

Italian. I love her already. She had a little catchphrase she would return to again and again to try and elicit a reaction from her tour group, which bad news for her was mostly Brits. The two older Americans were doing their best to try and up the, wow, you know, but they weren't enough. And her little catchphrase was she would say something like, and the marble under your feet in the shopping street is millions of years old.

And so when you walk down the street, under your feet is millions of years of history. Even above you is a thousand years of history." And they were all interesting. And she would punctuate all these points with, how do you feel about it? Oh, that's a big question. And slightly Americanized as well. Yeah. And sometimes she would say it as she was turning away to just keep walking as though

she wasn't really waiting for a response. Millions of years, how do you feel about it? Immediately walking away to the next thing. It sounds like there was an air of millions of years and how do you feel about it? Also, how do I feel about it? I feel fine. Yeah. Interesting. I mean, also, I don't want the owners to be on me and my emotions. I've paid money for a tour guide. Stop asking me for things. Provide me with information. Don't ask me to confess

my feelings. I don't like a catchphrase in outside of show business. I suppose you could say that the guide is low level show business. But I went to, I think it's Lasky's where Elvis Presley used to get a lot of his clothes from. And the guy there, Bernard Lasky, would say, I was buying things, this is like the Elvis show. And I'd say, well, how much is it? And he'd say, it's $200. You deserve it. The question is, do you deserve it? It's what I'm asking myself. Because I'm not going to get it. I'm losing it. Yeah.

Anyway, that was, there's a beautiful thing when a Vera Lynn figure comes on and sings We'll Meet Again, which is very emotional. And Strangelove? Yeah. I think. We're going to say, is it like the film? It wasn't the film! Yeah. And also, one of my favourite ever daytime television interviews was Dame Vera Lynn where they said to her, do you ever think there'll ever be another force's sweetheart like you? She said, oh no. You see the problem now is that the modern wars, they aren't long enough.

That is the problem. I'm surprised that the agents of these people. Katherine Jenkins haven't done something about that. Katherine Jenkins being a par example. Yeah. I'm not writing her down as a warmonger at this stage. I wanted to share something with you from the outside world because you mentioned the Isle of Man recently. You mentioned the Isle of Man recently. You did a gig there. Which is, in case anyone doesn't know, that's Piers. It's not really your hometown. Are you South African or are you from the Isle of Man? Grew up on the Isle of Man.

Okay, fine. From a young age. Okay. So Joanna Kinley has got in touch, Frank, to say, Frank, I thoroughly enjoyed coming to your gig at the Gaiusie Theatre on the Isle of Man. Sorry? Just thought you'd like to know that every time you mentioned Prince William and held your hand up to the right, you were pointing at the Governor of the Island, a royally appointed post. I'm guessing nobody told you that he was in?

No, I didn't know he was. I just assumed the Island man you do a gig that holds 1500, everybody's in. I kind of wish you'd known. I wish I'd known. I'm sure you'd have had a bit of bounce with him. Definitely. The Gov. Joanna was in the cheap seats in the Amphitheatre and she could see, she can exclusively reveal, because she was obviously watching him, that the governor was clearly having a good laugh. And so was his wife. I wish she'd have moved about a bit. So the Governor of the Isle of Man enjoyed it, Frank. Yeah, but he has to enjoy it, doesn't he? No, does he? No. Does he have a civic responsibility to enjoy it? No, he has a civic responsibility

to be there, perhaps, but he could have not enjoyed it. I've met him. he's a nice man. Haven't you all met each other? Almost. At the bus stop. Just ploughing. Are you like that state in America where there were six votes? I'm disappointed he didn't come back afterwards. Although I'm glad he didn't, I didn't want to face anyone. But what if he'd have said to you, you know what you should have put into that gig?

Have you noticed that she said, I enjoyed coming to your gig? She didn't enjoy the gig. Oh you think she enjoyed the route to the theatre? Exactly yeah. No traffic, easy park. Yeah but if she'd have liked the gig she'd have said the gig. Here's the thing, can I tell you another show that I went to? I went to see Black Veil Brides. Are you familiar with their oeuvre? No. They're a rock band of the sort of, they have a kind of a lot of eye shadow stuff. Gothy? Yeah they're a bit gothy. I'll be honest I didn't really go to see them I went to see the band that was on with them called Creeper a band which I'm

particularly I think creepers seem to wear their heart on their sleeve I kind of creeper are also quite vampiric anyway I something struck me. There's a guitarist for Black Veil Brides called Jinx, yeah? And there's sometimes he plays the violin, puts down the guitar and plays the violin, a bit like Jimmy Lee used to do in Slade. Anyway, when he plays the violin he put on a top hat. Okay. He didn't play it normally. He didn't normally wear it. All right, Monopoly.

And you know my view on the top hat and lottery winners, which I've said to you before, because I think when you win the lottery, they should say you only get this if you agree to wear a top hat in public for the rest of your life. So I think it's very important that we know when the rich are amongst us. A good signal. Yeah. I need, you need to know, you know. Would you accept spats? No.

Top hat. Sort of be a top hat. Anyway, this guy clearly, when he was playing the violin, which he felt was a weirder thing to do than play guitar Put it on to be macabre Yeah, right and there is it's only really just struck me that there is a bit of Top hat action in a lot of sort of scary. Yes, you're right. It's not a slightly sinister connotation, isn't it? The Babadook.

Does the Babadook wear a top hat? He's quite overdressed. Who is that? I knew you wouldn't know Babadook. He's a ghost. He's a type of ghoul. You would hate that film. It's very scary, isn't it? Yeah, I don't like the sound of that. But he's very formally dressed.

You'll snob the Babadook. I would say that's one thing I do like about the Babadeek. Sartorially, half-bulten. No, but I'm sitting watching this gig and then I start thinking there is a sort of genre that you'd call the snooty ghoul. I'd love to go for a pint of the snooty ghoul. You know what the ghoul is? The ghoul who says things like, as if you mere mortals could challenge the prince of darkness. Yes, and sort of hundreds of years and you think you can stand up to that.

Yeah, they really opt themselves some ghouls. Oh yeah, I actually like a snooty ghoul. And also, then... Dracula's dressed for the opera. Yeah, exactly, we've said this before. Well, Dracula's the king of the snooty ghoul, really. Yeah, but Dracula, what would you say, if this was the Dracula off the radio,

that was the name, if it was Dracula, sort of, you know, post-Doker, doing some work on his own. podcasting. What might a subtitle be to it because he has a nickname I think which is used quite a bit. Oh. Does it ring any? Oh hang on well no because it's Prince of Darkness. Prince of Darkness. Right okay. Prince of Darkness which is also Satan he's called that, Paradise Lost, and Ozzy Osbourne. Ozzy Osbourne, Elon Musk, oh no. Now, I think actually, who was the guy in the Blair government, Peter Mandel, that he was called the Prince? Yes.

And I was thinking about that as I watched this gig, all these princes of darkness. Never a king of darkness. Oh no. No. It's a bit sort of Colonel Gaddafi. Why is he the highest rank? No, but how does that? It's almost like a bit Prince Harry. Oh, they're very happy to have all the trappings of being part of the darkness family.

They don't want the responsibility. No, they don't. When it comes to actually sitting on the throne and making decisions, having to watch people from other countries dance, they don't want to do that. Who is Dracula's dad? I've never sort of encountered him really. No, I don't think so. Father of Dracula would be... He's an epo baby, Dracula. Oh, he's such an epo baby. Well, you suggested he might be the king of darkness.

Well, I'm just wondering why don't we know any information about these parents. I bet he was a prince as well. None of them make the final step up. It's the problem, isn't it, is that if you do become the king of darkness, then you've got to spend all your time running hell and none of your time on tour. Yeah. Playing music and just, yeah, and just hanging out like at sort at sex parties with billionaires. Yes, yeah.

That's the life they want. They don't want to be the king. Is that what Dracula does? I didn't know about the sex parties. It's a prince. It's a prince. Heavy lies the crown. Exactly.

There might even be lower echelons. There might be a Home Secretary of Darkness. The Minister without Portfolio of Darkness. Just general darkness, just whatever it is day to day. This is why you get the Shadow Cabinet. That's why you're perfect. I mean isn't the Shadow Cabinet ought to be a group of supervillains in DC? Yes, the Shadow Chancellor.

Oh my God. But if anyone out there knows of a King of Darkness I'd love... I think there might have been a film once called The King of Darkness. I'll no doubt be watching a West End play of it at some point, instead of writing something new. Hank, if Satan is the Prince of Darkness, who's his boss? Well, exactly. So they don't want to take the responsibility. It doesn't surprise me with Satan. I would have thought Dracula could step up. Yeah, I mean, you do look at Dracula and think, well, he's footloose and fancy, he looks very formal. He looks like

he'd love a state occasion. Oh, he's primed. Yeah. He's permanently dressed. There's no casual Fridays at Dracula's castle. Oh, I do thank God for that. Dracula in jeans, not a good look. Dressed down Friday. What about Dracula in a tracksuit in a co-ord? What about Kimono? It would be Dracula dressed like Zuckerberg or those tech guys. A hoodie.

Oh yeah. We like to keep things casual. With those plastic flip-flops. Yes. I wear Crocs today. It's all in colding these days. Anyway, I want to try and find the king. Yes, the King of Darkness. I should, did you see, not with Ludwig Kennedy, that there is, you know every now and again

when we used to gather together in a different context, every year we would talk about the Oxford English Dictionary coming out with these are the words of the moment. It's happened again. Yes, I saw this. Because this is, are they, is it lexicographers? Have I said that right? They compile dictionaries. That's Susie Dent, isn't it? Yeah, she's one of them I was thinking Samuel Johnson, but yeah also Susie day. He was the OG. Yeah Yes, and they've selected the word this year

Yes, what did you think of it? Well, do you want to do the review? Yes, it's It's brat. Mm-hmm. I was very happy with it. Was you? Yeah. Did you have a Brat summer? Yes, I did actually. No I didn't, I don't smoke.

In case you don't know, Brat is a term that's been popularised by Charlie XCX. Very good, Frank. Which I'm guessing was supposed to be XXX, but you know when you sign off on a text and you realise you put C at the end instead of X? Is that what happened? It was her name on, you remember the young people used to use MSN messenger? And that was her sign off. Is this pre or post Ask Jeeves? It was post Ask Jeeves. Okay. And she used to, that was her sort of sign off, that was her name on

that. Was Charlie XCX, so it was Kiss Charlie X. Kiss Charlie X. Do you see it? So it's CX, Kiss Charlie X. It's CXCX. Yeah, it's not some subliminal Roman numeral. I doubt that very much. I mean, I don't know for certain. In the days of MSN, it was all about trying to create, there was always a symmetry to the to the name. So you'd have a lowercase x, uppercase x, whatever, uppercase x, lowercase x. So it would like a... Was there anyone on it called, able was I ere I saw Elba?

LAUGHTER Which is supposed to... Some people have said to me that Napoleon actually said that when he arrived in Elba. He just happened to say a sentence that were both ways. Really? There was a palindrome. So you bring that up.

Race car? Michael Palindrome. That's bring that up. Race car? Michael Palindrome. That's what they called Napoleon on Elba. I saw him the other week on Hampstead Heath. Michael Palin. Oh do you see Palin? So he said, oh Frank, shut my hand.

He said, oh how nice to see you. And I was with Kath, my partner. And I said, oh this is Kath. She said, I won't shake your hand And I was with Kath, my partner, and I said, oh, this is Kath. She said, I won't shake your hand because I've been throwing the ball for the dogs. I've got dog spit on my hand. He said, I probably shouldn't be shaking hands. I've got COVID. Really? Right? And I said, well, maybe you shouldn't have shook my hand. And he said, he said,

the thing is apparently that when you wash your hands, you have to say happy birthday twice. I said, I know the system, but that's not what I'm saying. What about the system about not shaking hands when you've got COVID? Anyway, you've got Palen, you've got Python, you've got Palindrome. You've got Python. That's what they're calling that strain of COVID. Python, COVID. People would pay good money to be infected by Michael Palin.

So anyway. Not Frank. So brat, do you understand Frank, and I don't mean this in a patronising way, but do you think you've got your head around the concept of the brat sort of movement? Well, I mean, I haven't got my head around the concept of the modern name of this. Okay. You know where you watch the Brits and they say the winner is immersion eater and then some guy comes off? Yeah.

Or a guy with a sort of Cossacks haircut. Yeah. And then, yeah, now, oh, and the winner is Danger UXB, which is probably a relative of Charlie. Yeah, I don't get that I think brats as far as I can tell and this is what I find annoying about me is That it's not Really different from girl power or being a lad it Yes, I mean the thing about Brad will tell so that's how you view it is it what I tell I've got

I wrote down her definition because I don't want to do her a disservice. It says, someone brat Charlie XCX said. So this does sound like Judge Pickles summing up. She'd be a good sound check actually to get the Charlie XX. She said, someone being brat might have a pack of cigarettes, a big lighter and a strappy white top with no bra. As we called it in the 90s, life. But sans booze, interestingly. I wonder what you're going to say about that. Yeah, I worried a plank. I worried. No, but we don't want to start people smoking again, do we?

No, but it's not smoking, man. People smoking may be redundancies at Rigby and Pella. One statement like that, bravissimo into receivership. Bravissimo! Thank you very much. No but I think that's I think that's I don't want to sound like an old man but I'm going it's a bit irresponsible to make smoking cool. No Frank, it's taking it too literally. It's not actually about smoking. It's more the energy around the brat movement so it's kind of... There's no energy from smoking. It's sort of it's a

hedonistic bit bit devil may care. I think it's a bit skippity me self. It's a bit wear the same dress two days in a row. Who cares? Yeah. Don't even wear a bra. As opposed to when it was a reaction against clean girl. Yes. But feminists didn't wear a bra. Do you know clean girl?

Feminists didn't wear a bra. It's not a new thing. Oh no, exactly. And they probably used a bit lighter on lots of occasions. Yeah, but did they have a lime green aesthetic? Maybe not a big razor, but you know what I mean? It doesn't feel like a very new idea, a slightly wild type stuff. But it is for this lot because they were all clean girl. Do you know about clean girl? Well I can guess what that means. Well you probably thought you'd been having an outside toilet in London. And they were in the same room as well. What would Taylor Swift be? She's clean girl.

Oh, I see. Okay. She's too nice and probably too, is she too old to be a brat? But they had some other words, de Lulu, do you know that one? Yes. I can't bear de Lulu. It's when you believe something about Lulu and then found out it was untrue. Not Scottish, you say? Oh, I'm absolutely to Lulu. I was on yapping. Yapping. Going on about something

not very important. Yes, that is the meaning of yapping. In what way is that a new word? It's become a term for sort of recreational, deliberate recreational pointless conversation. Can you not ever bring up deliberately recreational pointless conversation in the middle of this bunker? It's not an idea I want to put in people's heads. We're in charge of, we're the kings and queens of yapping. Are we brats? No. We're the kings and queens of yapping. Yeah, are we brats? No, I find delululoo, see that irritates me because it's a perfectly good word, just

use that one. You're saving one syllable and if I may go so far as to say, I find that's the kind of thing that's said by a very low IQ individual, to quote the new president. Well I read the thing in which Charlie 115 or whatever it would be in Roman numerals. What would it be, Pierre? XCX. You wouldn't do XCX because C is 15, you're just taking 10 away and then adding it. Anyway, she was described, ironically described with a word I hadn't heard before. She was called a Sigfluencer because she influenced people to smoke.

Sigmund Freud and she's a big Freudian. Is she a big Freudian? I don't know. I'd like to think so. I didn't know that. Charlie XCS has brought us Brat Summer and revived the idea that all men are trying to marry their mother. I remember when I was about eight, I remember when the phrase, I think it must have been

hyphenated, sex kitten suddenly appeared. And I remember my brother saying of a woman on I think crossroads, she's a bit of a sex kitten and the family stopped as if the earth had stopped. Oh my god. And let me guess, this woman looked a bit like Elton John. Everyone did then. That's what I mean. All women did then. But sex kitten, looking back, I think it meant sexy and seemingly like all fluffy and nice but with claws hidden. I think that's what it meant.

Yes, often wearing a peignoir. Do you remember a peignoir? No. It was a sort of... Michael peignoir. It was a slightly sort of gossamer thin house coat almost. It was like a little baby doll thing. Oh yes.

You know, you're familiar with that. She might have been. That's very Askwithian, isn't he? That's what all the housewives in confessions of a- They would answer the door to the milkman wearing one of those little peignoirs. Oh, yes, yes. Yeah. I think Dracula had one. I think I remember seeing him receiving friends for brunch. Yeah, I hated having- Does Dracula wear a dressing gown?

He would wear a tolling robe, would he? He'd have a silk... I think he's probably in the same situation as me. He never knows what gap in the day he's supposed to do the dressing gown. In the night. So I think he gets up and just gets dressed straight away, straight into waistcoat. Yeah, yeah, and straight into waistcoat. Yeah yeah and straight into big silk cape and never wrinkled. The great thing about a cape is worth spending the money because you never grow out of it.

Oh yeah and also... No one's ever said I've got too fat for that cape I bought in the 90s. Really? Yeah, devastating. Wow, how fat are you that the cape doesn't fit? I can't even swish it in front of me anymore. Yeah, it just sits on the top of my shoulders now. It's the Frank Skinner podcast. The new winter change is blowing. It's the Frank Skinner podcast I'm not totally sure how it's goin'