The Frank Skinner Show - Ten Second Eye Contact

Episode Date: February 2, 2026

Frank and Emily are joined by Sara Barron! Frank has misread his Birthday card, Sara worries she's having a mid-life crisis and there's chat about wild swimming. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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It's the Frank Skinner podcast, don't you know? Be my love. And quench this flame inside me burning. You're all right. This is Frank off the radio. I'm joined by Emily Dean and Sarah Barron is in the house. Press button, cheer. I don't have a cheer button.

Thank you. Let me see what we've got. Sarah Barron is in the house. I like it. It's good. I like that. Oh, thank you. This, yeah.

Follow the podcast on X and Instagram. You can email the podcast via Frank off the radio at Avalon UK.com on the WhatsApp front. Now that Frank's not on the radio, just download the podcast away we go. That was Dr. Phil. I absolutely love that one. I still have my birthday cards at my side.

I've taken them down now. It was down from where? Well, they were on the shelf. Oh, okay. Did you like the birthday card, Frank? I like all birthday cards. I like yours. It's beautifully, it looks like Japanese blossom.

Mine's very tasteful. Do you remember her? Yeah. Very popular in Birmingham. Oh, Frank. That's all disgusting. What do you think of the one the show collectively got you? And be honest, as David Beckham once said to Victoria Beckham on the documentary.

Be honest. It's lovely. Oh, you. Oh, my God, he hates it. He doesn't think it's as tasteful as your individual. I'm happy for any birthday card nowadays. I like the one from Jenny, the assistant producer. I read this as Dear Frank, happy birthday.

Hope you have a wonderful day, celebrity. I thought, oh, God. Oh, that's a bit weird. Jenny. Dark horse. I mean, it's very nice of you to pretend that I'm still one. But don't just call it me like that. I really respect that.

Does she call you that in the way that Americans call their younger son, Jr.? It's just like a name for you. Hey, celebrity. I'm going to show it to Sarah, and she might be able to see my era. So it's that one in the corner, Sarah. Okay. Dear Frank, happy birthday. I hope you have a wonderful day celebrating. But it does look like a why, doesn't it? It does. I see how you got there.

I also think you slash she writes from Jenny, which I think is pretty formal. But then she does three kisses. So it's like messages from Jenny. Do you like him or don't you like him, Jenny? What's your story? I must admit, I would no sooner put a kiss on a message to Jenny than I would walk up to the comedy council and say I am no longer in business.

Hang on, Frank. You always do a kiss to me, which I love. I know, but we go way back. With young women now, I'm frightened to look in their general direction. I'm glad you said general direction. I didn't like the beginning of that. No. Where is it going to end you wondered?

Charlie, um, Charlie Brooker, I think, told me, maybe I shouldn't be quoted him directly, but, you know, it's done now. Yeah. That he'd had some sort of, they'd had a training thing at the offices where they work about, you know, behavior in the office.

And they said that if you, if a man looks at a woman in the eye, Frank looked me in the eye when he said it. Yeah, but if you do it for 10 seconds, that she is well within the right. to make a formal complaint. And at first, that thing, oh, well, you know, people are so, you're going to nothing, how can you?

You can't even argue your secretary anymore. But 10 seconds, you just try 10. If I stare at you for 10. I mean, I mean, after two seconds, I did feel harassed. After two seconds, I felt harassed. After one, it wasn't ideal. No offense, Frank. 10 seconds.

And after two, I felt harassed. I find myself walking around in. the yeah in your soul like when 11 in Stranger Things puts the blindfold

and she's walking in that wet that wet place that's all that 10 seconds is a fucking eternity to look someone in the eye

I was a guy there are there are weighing there are heavy weight weighings where they don't look each other in the eye

for 10 seconds oh I hate those way ins Frank they're so Disney aren't Why are both of you so familiar with the weigh-in process? Oh, because I quite like boxing. You do?

Yeah. What do you like about it? I love everything about it. I love, I find it very exciting. I find it very, Frank and I went to a boxing class, didn't we, Frank? For Chris Eubank Jr., we went together. So I'm not trying to ask you a question just so you'll ask me, but can I just like lay down what I find absolutely unmanageable about it as a sport and you can tell me why

I'm wrong? Please do. You may not be wrong. Here's what's interesting to me that you're into it, okay? I think of you is fundamentally reasonable. Oh, that's where you're going wrong. Okay. Yeah.

Where the hell did you get that? I didn't realize that long ago. I think, I just think you're... Emily is reasonable. You don't think she just sort of seem like, we've all got our wackadoo qualities, but like you seem like your head is screwed on pretty straight. Like I'd have the right views.

Yeah. Like I, that I, you know, or maybe whatever. I'm saying, which is... But bear in mind, I'm from a generation where this was utterly acceptable. So I would never... And you could argue, well, there's a lot of other stuff that was acceptable. I'd question now. Oh, yeah, yeah.

But boxing, it remains one of my last. A core passion? I wouldn't say it was a core passion. But I think possibly, yeah, people are surprised that I enjoy it. I think... Don't understand you're right. No, no, no. So is it you think it's wrong because of the violence involved?

I'm not talking right. or wrong. I'm just saying I mean, no, I am. Yeah, I think it's wrong. And you think it's quite savage. I think it's like people do whatever you want to do these guys who do these sports and there's pain like whatever. I don't know their story but to want to

watch someone get beat up. We're not moving. We're just going strange. It's strange. Like I feel this by people who watch marathons. I'm like oh, so your deal is you like watch it's torture porn

oh let me watch someone push themselves beyond their natural human limits I find this very odd and so I just think that the idea that you'd want to watch someone's face do that is weird it is done within the Queensbury

rules yeah it's not like watching it's not like staying to watch two guys fighting I think it is like that I think it is like that about things like would you feel that about judo or jihitsu and taekwondo Oh, okay, okay. Tai Chi.

I'm just trying to find your limit. There's no violence in Tai Chi. Arm wrestling? That's fine. Oh, okay. Okay. I'll watch like a sport where someone's not going to get

really clearly. That rules football out. No, but football people don't get that hurt, do they? Well, they get broken. They do. Sometimes we've seen broken legs and they're in real time. You don't mind.

Anyway, this is not a moral debate. show. I'm just interested that Emily enjoys violence more than I realized. That's all. That's my parting. My parting comment. Like, look, sometimes, my dad was very into boxing, that's why I got into it. Okay, fine. It's a thing. It's part of your past.

My dad was very into boxing, and he also liked watching it. He liked doing it on Pop Carparks. Something I haven't inherited, can I say. But he was a tough guy. Yeah? We were brought up by tough guys, sir. Frank, do you have siblings? Yeah.

He's got hundreds. Hundreds? No, he's got four. Well, I've got... Three? Well, two living. Two still with us. You have two still with us?

We never box. No. It's not our thing. Are they more macho figures than you? One of my brothers was definitely more in my father's footsteps, and then me and my other brother are the sensitive, funny, caring. He was funny and caring, but he could also break people up. I wouldn't mind that as back on.

No? I don't have it. You were more, Frank's always been more of the Walter the Softie, and we love him for it. Yeah. I almost have Walter the Softie's gang in the Beano included a character called Doddley Nightshirt. I remember Dudley.

It was always one of the great character names. My, my, how good that was. How did we get onto boxing, by the way? I'm drinking coffee, by the way. Why is that weird? I don't drink coffee very often. What's going on? Is it a birthday treat? No, because I know. like it very much. I find it bitter and upsetting.

That's what I've been called before. I was... Not when you're here, darling. Never when you're here. They never say it to my face, which I respect. I was in France once on holiday, and I'd recently seen a film called Betty Blue. And I thought in that, it's one of the Frenchest films I've ever seen.

and they did that thing that the French do of drinking coffee out of basically a breakfast bowl you know that so I bought a couple of these breakfast poles and I came back and I was drinking coffee which I don't even like out of them and dipping in a croissant

and all that is that still, has that completely gone I want that tradition in France? That happens in France still isn't it? Oh, is it? Yeah I'm pretty sure it does I like a hot chocolate as well in a bowl. They love that in France.

I like... Cove's on the washing cup. Okay. But, wait, why is today a coffee dad? That's not clear to me. Why today? I think just before a podcast, I think, what if I give myself some sort of artificial zing? I might saw like a great comedy eagle.

Still waiting, guys. Oh, my God. What hates are you going to reach across the next one of the other ones? it's a good question how do eagles fly yeah I don't know either I don't know about eagles I don't know about eagles I don't know

I don't like eagles I don't really get on with them I don't love the way they look I don't like their noses I held one for a photo opportunity beaks whatever they are did you yeah they weigh a fucking ton

I mean it was hard to keep the The arm. Mold or golden? I can't remember how I was on the day. Did it feel like it could attack? It was, its pointy beak was frighteningly close by eyes. Is it yellow that beak? I thought.

I hate that beak. Is it yellow? It was. When it was next to my teeth, you would think we were separated at birth. But it could have took my eyes out like you might pick a winkle out of a shell. Uh-huh. Do you know what I like Googling a lot is, which animals can you become, wild animals could become your friend?

Really? Could become tame. I'm fascinated by that. Eagles, not so much, I don't think. What would be the most surprising that could? Well, there are some out there. I mean, hippos are difficult because they're one of the most aggressive animals out there. They're more aggressive.

The only thing they do, isn't it, is get underneath your boat. I don't have a fucking boat. So I could get a hippo and be perfectly safe. But then don't they like eat you once you're in the water? Well, this is the thing. Hippos. I learned this from Steve Baxhill. Hippos have had great PR over the years.

Because we think of them as all hungry hippos. Who was that hippo in Rainbow Frank? Who was friends with uncle? What was he called? The one who said, oh, Jeffrey, you see it here. George. I don't know. But neither of them were.

They both showed their genitals all the time. Did they? Yes, they did. They never wore anything. And that hippo, we've said, We sort of see hippos as friendly in, but they are, Steve Baxhaw told me that hippos are more dangerous than alligators. Yeah, but people love telling you things that are sound true. He's an exploit, he's an wildlife expert.

He's not, Frank, this is Steve Baxhaw, he's a wildlife expert. But you know those facts? Well, it's like saying David Attenborough told me this thing, a load of rubbish. What does he know? I know, but does that sound right to you that they're more dangerous? Well, I trust him more than us. I know, but, you know, go off your own instincts. I don't want to go off instincts with a hippo, thank you very much.

I spoke to someone in an audience. Speak to an expert. They said to me that donkeys kill more people in a year than sharks. Yes. I'm not having it. Yeah. Okay. And then they're on the telly saying, give money to this bloody sanctuary.

No way. Go off their killers. I mean, I kind of base it on who tells me. So if someone tells me something about comedy and they know nothing, I won't trust them. If you tell me, I'll believe you. See, reasonable. He knows about hymobos.

You fool. That's reasonable. Anyway, hippos, you could have them as a pet, but it wouldn't be advisable. Well, what would be great is if they were in the habit, if I had one, and because I didn't have a boat, used to get under my car at night. Someone was taking a parcel shelf and suddenly the whole thing rises up and pins them to the ground. Then it would be worth having a hippo. Do they need water?

Do hippos need water? Would you say the hippo was the most abbreviated of all animals? Absolutely. I can't think you never call like a tig. You're absolutely right. There's a tig, big tig, came in. Yeah, this cam, we're riding this cam across the desert. It's not, rhino is a close second maybe.

Rhinos, yeah. But not as much as hippo. Does it take you a second to remember which is a hippo and which is a rhino? No, I know instantly. No, because I sponsor a rhino. So I've got a cosponsor a rhino. You know? Sponsor a rhino.

That's a strange animal to sponsor. I just really like rhinos. They're endangered. Why do you feel so affectionately to why did they get your pick? I like their... Tusks. They're panelling. I like panelling on a creature.

Yeah, yeah. But you're right, right. It's like being in a 17th century hall when you look at one of those. You're right, because rhino and hippo get shortened, don't they? They do. Whereas abbreviated, whereas elephant? No. Arguably just as long.

A crocodile occasionally called crocs, but not really. No, no, no. Not really. Rino and Hippo. But I think HIPAA edges it. And gators, that's very Floridian, isn't it? Oh, yeah. Because they have gatorade, isn't it?

That's where that's come from. It's Gatorade, anything to do with alligators? Why is it called that? Over to our American. So maybe I'm having one of these moments where I realize something in real time. But no, I've never known of a connect. Like a Gatorade is like... Energy drink.

What I knew it as is like if you'd had a stomach bug and then you needed to hydrate. Okay. Gatorade. It's like your lubricide. Electrolites, is it? What I would say, I don't know if this is true, but in Major League Baseball,

next to the doggout, there would literally be this enormous barrel with the Gatorade thing on, and all the players are drinking it as if it's the healthiest thing in the world. So maybe it is a rehydrator. The other thing then, because I used to be mega into baseball

about 20 years ago. So it looks shock. I think of it. I didn't grow up. Don't tell me your anti-baseball. I think I'm anti-I-I-d-I-d-I-d-I-d-d-act. I think I disliked sport my entire life. Right, right.

Because the only sport I really had an awareness of was baseball. Got it. And it's so boring. I found it so boring. I quite like how long it is, though. No. When I first watched a football game, I was like, wait, it's done.

But it's the only sport I've ever known where people participate with an enormous, balding wad of chewing tobacco in their mouth. And they're big boys. I want to watch a fine male figure running around. And you're not getting that at all in football. Well, you do go to in baseball. No, not the way you're guaranteed to get it in a football match or a basketball match. No to American football and no to baseball.

Seems to be objectifying these men. I'm allowed. Poor A roll. Yeah, I don't know if you are. He's gross. The next thing, you know, would be gazing into their eyes for 10 seconds. This episode is supported by TV licensing. Your TV licence means you can watch a whole range of live TV channels

including BBC, ITV and Channel 4, plus you can catch up on any shows you've missed on iPlayer. As we're being supported by TV licensing, I think we should talk about what TV we've been watching. Yes, I'll tell you what I've been watching. David Bedeal's Catman. I know you're familiar with this, Frank. We should say it's a three-part documentary about cats

because David thinks there are too many dog-based formats around, none taken. And it's actually a really lovely show. He goes to visit, I've just seen the first episode, he goes to meet various high-profile cats and their owners, Jonathan Ross, Ricky Jervais, and the legendary Frank Skinner popped up. Yes, I don't have a cat, can I say. I was offended that he suggested that he and I co-owned a cat, which I would never own a cat.

Well, what I loved is you started it in a very off-bram way, and I loved this show because Frank said, look, I don't love cats. Oh my God, this show's called Catman, Frank. When I arrived on set, I said to the entire crew, I bet you will be putting this one on your CVs, which was that started the day well. Then Frank said, my other favourite bit of the whole show,

and I know I'm biased, but was Frank saying, look, addressing the audience, I don't want you to think David's desperate doing this. Well, I don't want them to think that. But anyway, even though I'm a dog obsessive, I did really enjoy it. And I would really recommend it. I loved it. Just because David's genuine, it isn't it a genuine obsession that shines through, doesn't it?

No, it's a genuine obsession. I'm going to give you my honest opinion. I'd like it better if there was no cats in it. I've been watching Gladiators, which I love. Yeah, you love that, don't you? love with Bradley and Barney. I like the fact that Barney's on it. And this is Bradley's son, we should say. Yeah, so he gets some of the old, you know, oh yeah, well, we know how he got the job. But it reminds me when I used to live in Smethy. And in order to get a job on the bins,

you needed an uncle who worked on the bins. And because it's in showbiz, people think it's bad. It's good enough for the bins. I just love all these really big, muscular people who've given. They have shots of them in their green room sitting around and they have a big, like, staged losses of temper. Like, Viper came off, he's so angry, he kicked a yoga ball. I mean, it's great. Mark Clattenberg is the referee. It was a former Premier League referee.

I know. I'm familiar. With all the incompetence that that suggests. I'm going to start watching it, Frank, largely for the Disney Rages. I enjoy that. Mark, the way that he says gladiator's ready, he has to say, when he says ready, he has to say it at the side of his mouth

like he's doing it a bit sneakily, like he's not supposed to be saying ready, but he's going to risk it. But no, it's endless fun for all the family. Anyway, your TV licence covers you for over 400 TV channels and everything on BBCI player on any device. For more information,

visit tvl.co.ukuk slash pod. With Amex Platinum, you have access to over 1,400 airport lounges worldwide. So your experience before takeoff is a taste of what's to come. That's the powerful backing of Amex. Conditions apply. I was guilty of multiple skin care crimes. Two counts of sleeping and makeup. One count of using disposable wipes.

I knew my routine had to change. So I switched to Garnier-Missler water. It gently cleanses, perfectly removes makeup, and provides 24-hour hydration. Clear away the evidence with the number one Missler water worldwide by Garnier. What's happening in your life, Sarah? Here's what's going on. I think I'm having a midlife crisis. Why?

Well, so my husband is a vegetarian. Okay. And I believe in the principles. And so I've sort of backed him on this cause for the last 15 years. And something's going on with me right now. Oh, more. Like, some kind of form of rebellion. I'm doing a lot of secret dirty fish eating.

So I've started, I wasn't, I was thinking I knew I was going to see you guys. And I was like, what's going on with me? And I'm like, I'll tell you what's going on with me. I'm sneaking into the store every day. Like, I only ever do it when I'm not with my husband or with my son, and I buy tinned fish. And then some kind of act of rebellion when neither of the, them are there because there's sort of an unspoken rule that there's no dead animals allowed in the house and I'm like I'm going to start bringing I'm going to eat it so I started bringing

tinned fish in and I like stand over the sink with my back to my family oh like David Badele cat man is that what he does well I'm just saying it's very cat like okay okay yeah so and I kind of just eat and then because fish is so stinky I make sure that I like rinse it very quickly and then I'm hiding the empty tinned fish parapherst paraphernalia at the bottom of the recycling bin. Like if I was better, I would like have an affair and like hired a used condom somewhere.

But in fact, it's tinned fish containers. And I think what's going on more broadly is I think my midlife crisis is like, I want to get in shape. And I've heard that I'm supposed to eat 100 grams of protein a day. And I'm like, this is not going to happen without some dead animals.

So I'm like, dead animals? Sorry, here I come. You've started with tin fish. I mean, you're on the bottom step of dead animal. I'm really cheap. Yeah. I'm really cheap, Frank. Call me when you're at the hog roast. Just watching it.

Watching the full figure of pork rote. Another thing when they ladle the fat back over. Oh, that is. Oh, I don't want to waste any of this fat guy. Splash. Back on. So that's my, that's the strangest. thing and I haven't

set it out loud or even really thought about the fact that it's happening but it's becoming a habit with me so he doesn't know will he listen to this? I don't think so respectfully. Okay I'm fine with that I don't listen to his radio

right exactly like let's just all be honest with ourselves. We can't go around listening to each other's I do not be listening to him I do listen to Jeff radio show that's sweet I'll tell him that so I won't anymore and maybe maybe this is my way of telling him Do you know, like maybe actually he would or maybe he'd see something and then I...

Maybe someone will say to him, my idea of your wife talking about tuna chunks on a podcast. Can I just say I'm a little too classy for tuna? I'm not doing tuna, I'm doing mackerel and sardines. Okay. Has there ever been a drag race or tuna chunks? There should be.

That would be my drag name because I'm little. Are you? My legs are like pistons. I'd call myself tuna chunks. I like that. I think chunks, you're expecting someone who's going to big. Yeah.

You're a tiny person. Both of you are very tiny. Oh. Yeah, you're two little guys. You're like my two little guys. I'm like mid-sized. You guys are like teeny tini-tini. Look, we only have you on here for scale.

You'll look control. People say this. They think, oh, well, I never realized those two were so little till I saw. Before when Pierre was on, they thought, well, everybody looks little right. Well, that's true. But no. you're putting us in context. And now you got a mid-sized, mid-sized sedan.

What are we going to do about the fish lawyer? I think I'm going to keep doing it. Are you? What's the, what's the harm in this life? No, this is what I do. So I wait until a moment where I know no one is going to be around me for like a good 20 minutes. And then I stand, shovel, shovel, shovel, shovel, shovel.

But where did I live these tins? So my husband isn't great at doing. I just want to say before I slag him off, because it's like a thing I'm trying to work on doing too much of. but I did begin our conversation when I saw you today was saying, here's how my husband is doing such an impressive job with the dog. Yes. You did.

That being said, stuff around the house is not where he excels. So if it is a household task, it is my domain. So he never really, like, does the rubbish or whatever. You keep it in the dishwasher. I don't have a dishwasher right now. I need to buy one. Oh, okay. I know, Frank.

Well, you know, if I'm buying my dog, I can buy you a dishwasher. Oh, my God. Maybe you'd buy me one for my 50th birthday if I don't have one by then. Get a little half one. I don't want to have one. I want a hole. I want to go for it. Okay.

So anyway, I then I rinse it out and then I just put it in the butt. I store them in a part of the fridge. I know he won't look in. And then I... There are parts of the fridge. My husband's name is Jeff Lloyd and I call it Jeff Lloyd looking. And so like Jeff Lloyd looking would be like,

I don't see the thing. Like he almost... He won't look in the egg area. Sometimes they avoid the egg area completely. Do you know the egg area, right? He can't look. I think I've menopause in so it doesn't work anymore. Oh my God, Frank, really?

What have I missed the point? Really? My mother-in-law has long been very sniffy about the fact that we put eggs in the fridge. Oh, I put them in the fridge as well. You're not meant to. But that's so American of you. Is it? Yeah, I think there's a thing in the door that's got eggs shaped.

Right. I don't like it. I don't like messing with temperatures if you don't have to. And it's like if I... That's true, Frank. They're not... When you get them in the shop.

Why do we have a fridge then? If you don't have it. It's the American influence. It's like Americans being like, hey, look at my big fridge. Are you going to put your eggs in here? And then you are getting confused. I thought of you as like a more principled

mentally stronger person than that. No, it says eggs, boxing. No, not at all. You're getting so disappointed with us. Boxing and eggs. I'm a very obedient person. If there's any... Eggs in egg shapes.

You're being manipulated. You're being manipulated by the Americans. That's how I want you to think of those eggshells from now on. Okay. Okay. Anyway, I don't think it's going to stop. So I should get rid of that tootsie roll holder as well. What about your Hershey?

Yeah, my Hershey's kisses. Trey. Your Tootsie Roll holder, that sounds like a name from a porn film. My Reese's peanut cop holder. So the fish thing, I think you're just not going to tell them, just keep eating fish. It's making me feel like naughty. Do you feel any better for all this protein? Yeah.

Well, there's your answer. I know, right? I hate saying that. But maybe I think it's like placebo effect. Like I just feel like, oh, I'm in control. I have a project. You know what I mean? Soon you'll be saying to him, I think I might do wild swimming.

And then when you're in there, you'll be eating the fish actually in the water. Like a wild man. But when you see bears, you know, you see bears eating fish like, great. Great. I do a little wild swimming on occasion in the summer. Of course you do. Of course I do.

Can I ask you a question? Have you ever met anyone who did wild swimming that you have to sort of tease the infat? I take issue with that, Frank, and I'll tell you why. Because I admit that I didn't keep it as close, like keep my cards as close to my chest as I should have, but I didn't just bring up wild swimming. Someone else brought it up.

And then I went, oh yeah, I've done that a couple of times. No, but you were... I was eager. You were crouched and ready to pounce. You know what I wouldn't do? I wouldn't do cold water swimming. That's what I wouldn't do.

That's what I wouldn't do. What do you while swimming then? It's just like... Is Icelandic lagoons? Do you go in the Hampstead Ponds? Because I went in there once a while ago, and then I noticed that every single woman in there had a moustache, which is fine.

No, it's not. No, it's not fine. You didn't go in the men. We're all God's children. Yeah. So, you know, I absolutely, that's their right to have the mustache. No. Yeah.

And then I just thought, this is a bit odd. And then I looked over and I realized, oh, everyone's got a mustache. I think I've got a mustache. And it was sort of sediment or something. Oh. It was making, look, because the mustache, how can I put this? It felt sort of in keeping with the nature of the kind of people that were there. Do you know what I mean by that?

That's very interesting because that's not what I think of the open water or wild or cold water swimmer as being. I think of it as like a, I'm like, I'm a. I'm a middle-aged woman, but I'm going to feel alive. But this was a lot of while ago. But I'm still like into skin care products. And then in those coat, you know those coats that get you warm? What are they called? The dry robe.

The dry robe. Pink on the inside, camo on the outside. You can wear the dry robe. Disgusting. But the dry robe is for people who weren't at the pond and don't know you've been swimming in there. You might as well have a, I just went while. Swimming side. Yeah, that's horrible.

I would never do that. I just want to be clear. I wouldn't do that. Cock two. Yeah. Look, it's good that people are doing stuff. Don't get me wrong. It's better than watching soap operas all day.

Is it? At least someone who's watching soap operas all day wouldn't be pleased with themselves. No, they'd be ashamed. They wouldn't tell people. I like shame. I'll take shame over self-delight any day. Give me someone with some shame.

A little self-hatred. When do you want to talk? Am I do you ashamed? Yeah, I think anyone who says they don't is lying. But that's okay. I think we all have it buried somewhere about something. Me and Catherine are completely ashamed of our house. How nice it is.

Because it's so untidy. No, because it's not tidy. Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. It's really bad. You're not ashamed. You never seem ashamed of it. I know. Well, when you come around, I just think how many apologises can I do over a space?

Hold on. What about? what David Badeel said. David Badeel said to me, came in a little threat, how long are you going to live like this? Yeah, yeah, yeah. He said, will it always be like this?

Sure. Uh-huh. I think it... The answer is yes, it's not. Because neither one of you cares. Is it... You have someone who cares. We care enough to be a shame,

but not enough to tidy. Would you consider a cleaner who comes every day? No. I don't like having a... I don't like strangers in the house. Hang on. You know when people say, oh, we got burgled and they took the whatever they take nowadays, they took my laptop and they took the TV?

But you know what? It's not the things that got stolen. I just, that feeling that someone's been in my house, that's what makes me. That's what I feel about, like, the cleaner coming. But hang on, can we just establish point of order here? I would say your house is never dirty. It's a clean house. It's mess.

Well, no, what is it lacks identity in certain rooms? Yes. It feels like so. Not the identities, then it's dirty. No, it's not dirty, Frank. It's very clean. You're immaculate. Next time you come, I'll take you up the ladders.

No, please don't. I don't want you to take me up the ladders. Okay. It's a phrase I haven't heard for many years. I don't know what it means. I haven't heard it. It means literally we have ladders that we use. But he's making it sound like something out of a robin-ask with film.

I know a ladder, but what are you doing with a ladder in your home? Getting stuff off high shelves. And then what the idea is like once you get up there, it's really disgusting. When you come down, your hands are dry. This is what sums it up. When he says take you up the ladder, which sounds very much like a confessions film, Google it.

So if they got a ladder out, they probably wouldn't put it away. No. So the ladder might stay up for six weeks. And then they think, oh, it's just there now. I don't know if I'm right on this, but they're never dirty. They're not at all dirty.

They're very clean people. The only full-on cleaning and tiding we do is the morning before the cleaner comes. Yeah, that's fair enough. Just to give her a head start. Whenever, every house and flat, my husband and I have lived in together, we make sure that he has the side of the bed

that's closest to the wall. And then whatever that area is, we call it, I call it the pit of despair. Oh, yes. Because it gives a little area in which he can just unload his chaos. And then I can have domain after the, well, I mean, it's, I think.

I think Frank and Kath might. Yeah. I don't. But you need that area, the chaos area. Yeah. And then I can like make sure everything else is in my place. Because if things aren't where I want them to be, I feel very unrelaxed. Well, we have a space under the sofa where it's like the upside down in,

stranger things. And it looks like it's got that dusty. But I go under there. Sometimes the dog, the dogs, tennis ball will roll under there and I think, shit, I'm going to have to go upside down. And I go under there. And honestly, there are things like, I found a jacket under the. Fucking jacket underneath the sofa.

How high up from the floor is your sofa? About, I suppose, five inches. And how many people can sit on the sofa at once? Three. Wow. It's shocked. Yeah, it's, I mean, I always think, I always say, if we've lost anything in the house, have you tried onto the soap?

Ooh, that is grim. Yeah. Yeah. Does it smell okay in there? Well, the great thing, and I found this when I was growing up, when everyone I knew I'd got a dirty house, including us, is that people really get used to the way their houses smell, and they don't smell them anymore.

I think it's fine. I think having a dirty house is... We have a cleaner once a week, so it's, you know... I think there's... It's kept a bag. Over-cleaning your house is a very... new though, I'm afraid. So I like that, you've got to keep it a bit dirty.

Well, people write books now, don't they? About how to clean your house. Which is, you know, unbelievable. They write books about coffee and how to clean your house. You hate coffee that much? I don't hate coffee. We like all different things, Frank. Oh, no, but that's a good thing.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I love food and coffee and cleaning. But I wouldn't read about them. I'd like to say that in my defense. I would never read about any of those things. I just like them. So you don't have cookbooks and stuff. Well, no, I have a cookbook, but I wouldn't like sit down and read.

You have a A cookbook? I got a few. Nobody's got a cookbook unless they're a student. All right, yeah, that might be right, okay. That might be right. That's like people say I've got a ukulele, therefore it's got at least two. Well, when we went to, Frank took me to a ukulele convention or something, was it? Or something.

It was the George Formby Appreciation Society. You lose your temper with me over George Formby. Do I sound like I'm losing my temper? A little bit short, yeah. Slightly short, I'd say. Losing temper is overstating, but slightly short is fair. That's a normal business as usual. But we went to the George Formby Convention.

In fact, didn't my dad make a documentary or something we found out? I was making a documentary about George. Do you know George Forbby? I was making a documentary about George Formby. In case you don't know, the sort of famous ukulele comedian singer from the early 20th century. and the last person to have made a documentary about it was Emily's dad. Yeah.

So I went to this, it's the only time in my life, I've been treated like the homecoming queen. Honestly, all these old men with the ukulele's, are you Michael's door? Oh my God, no, we enjoyed it. I like that. But we went into the shop and I was disappointed because I thought they'd be all like Doctor Who merch.

Yeah. And it was just a table with sort of napkins laid out on it. and two ukuleleys for sale, they didn't really have much in the way of merchandise, Frank. I bought a ukulele there. I bought a 1930s Gibson ukulele for a thousand pounds. But guess what? I'm not going to give you £40 now.

One thing you could buy was small, do you remember these small squares of fabric? Yes. And you put them on your shirt. You don't glue. They just stick to your shirt. Oh my God. And it stops your ukulele from slipping when you're playing.

That's good. Can you play? Yeah. Do you play? Excuse me. No, I've never seen. When I'm allowed. Played for the Queen's birthday.

Him and Ed Balls. And Harry Hill. Played on stage for the Queen for her 19th birthday. Oh, my God. Ninety-second. Sorry, 90th. What did you play? We played when I'm cleaning windows,

an activity which you can imagine I'm not familiar with. Something that's, and other things that have never happened in your house. It's a song about the advantage of being a window cleaning from a voyeuristic. Oh, my God. Yeah. What was it? Was it, were you nervous? No, because there was so many of us. There was not just us three, but then there was the full rank.

of the George Form B Appreciations. Oh, okay, okay, right. So there was probably 50 of us on stage. But the three celebs at the front? Yeah, of course. Come on. Let's have some sort of social order. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Anyway, less reminiscing. You're right. The next episode of Frank Skinner's Radio Days is out on Wednesday. Don't go thinking I'm reading this, by the way, listeners. Nope. We're in 2012. This time we're talking about,

not saying goodbye at parties. I don't remember what that's about. Oh, that's the Irish Goodbye slash French Goodbye. Yeah, I'm a fan. I still do both. Brilliant. I didn't know, but I don't remember. I'll have to listen to us and find out where it was.

Okay. I always say a low, a bigger low to the host at parties. They've plopped you then. I regard going to a party like I used to regard signing on. Yeah. I have to turn off, show that I'm there, and then I can go home. Yeah, yeah, I think that's exactly right. Do you know what?

I love that. It's called presenteism as well, isn't it? Is it? Yes, I believe in the workplace. Well, you'll do things like people would go up for cigarette breaks back in the day and they'd leave their jacket on the back of the chair. So I'm still here. Well, when I used to work in a factory, I had three days off once.

And when I got back, I realized that no one had noticed. I mean, literally no one had noticed. Okay. And you know what? That's how I feel about show business. It's like the Graham Norton couch now. Oh, that's a distant memory. Oh, Frank.

It's the Frank Skinner podcast. A new winter change is blowing. It's the Frank Skinner podcast. I'm not totally sure how it's going. Thanks for listening to the podcast. Make sure to like and follow so you never miss an episode. And if you want to get in touch, you can email the podcast via Frank Off the Radio at Avalonuk.com.