The Fumblerooski Podcast - A New Dynasty -Ep 245 The Fumblerooski Podcast

Episode Date: February 14, 2024

Will the Chiefs' dynasty last much longer? Where does Patrick Mahomes rank all-time? What is the real reason the 49ers always fall short? Adam Wright and CJ Medeiros host special guest Chris Hetu to debate these topics and more!

The Kansas City Chiefs are Super Bowl 58 champions. We debate all of the ins and outs. This is the Fumble Rooski podcast. broken up and the pass is no sign yet. Hamilton comes down with a football and they're saying it's a catch. This is what? To Gates! Sideline! Touchdown! Unbelievable! Swings it way down the field to Watkins!

Sammy Watkins for the touchdown! Welcome to the Fumble Rooski Podcast by Power 88 and Secret Weapon Consulting. I'm Adam Wright with CJ Medeiros and we have a great episode in store for you guys tonight. Super Bowl 58 has come and gone, and yes, the season is over until September. But we're not going to think about that right now. We're going to recap what was actually a pretty good Super Bowl between these two teams. And I did think this was going to be a blowout. I thought this was going to be a game where either team was going to run away with it, and it would be another boring one. It was not that. It was actually a pretty good one. Pretty

good back and forth action. It got slow at times. Wasn't an all-timer, but it was a nice one. I was entertained. We're going to talk about the 49ers, the Chiefs, and Patrick Mahomes. I think those are a few of the biggest talking points in this matchup. But joining us to cover all of these topics, we have special guest Chris Hitu, formerly of Woosox Productions and Fans Only Sports Network. Chris, how are you doing? I'm doing good, my man. How are you? I'm doing great, man.

That's awesome. Well, I've definitely enjoyed all the times that i've come on you guys do a great job here on the show and definitely looking forward to talk about what we love most which is football and of course the most important game of all the super bowl absolutely super bowl 58 and so the chiefs so the chiefs won their third out of their last five years uh patrick mahomes now has three Super Bowl victories. He's been to an extra one, and he has been to the conference championship every single season he has started in this league, which is absolutely nuts to think about.

Even Tom Brady didn't get off to a strong start like this to his career. But I wanted to go around the table, give our initial takeaways from this Super Bowl. Chris, I'll let you start off. What are you thinking? I mean, the takeaways from the Super Bowl were, to be honest, I mean, I saw this being a close game from the get-go. These are two of the best teams in football. And to be honest, this was my early prediction last year was going to be this matchup. It did flip-flop a lot, but it's definitely what I expected at the end of the day for it to be. What I didn't expect was for it to be so defensively competitive throughout the start.

The Niners defense just played lights out the entire night. And despite losing this game, they played excellent in terms of getting the pressure on Patrick Mahomes. The Chiefs offense definitely surprised me a lot in that first half, but it managed to pick up and just take off in that second half. And then my last two points I'd have to say are Brock Purdy. I definitely think after seeing that performance, you will see him eventually take home a title. I think that game proved a lot in terms of what he's got under his belt, talent-wise, and what he brought to the table.

He looked calm and poised for the most part in that game. And sure, he had some bad passes. He had some bad mistakes under pressure. But he looks like a leader that can bring this team to a Super Bowl. And then, of course, with my homes, it's without a doubt, he's one of the best to do it in the game. He's the best quarterback in the NFL right now.

And the sky's the limit for him to continue to climb after that Brady title, like record that we have going on right now. So at the end of the day, a lot of great takeaways from the Superbowl, definitely an all timer. All right, CJ. So, first I just want to say, even though nobody outside of Kansas City, Missouri, is happy that the Chiefs won, I all tip my cap to them, and I just want to say, welcome to the Dynasty Club, KC.

Good stuff, good stuff. You know, salute. to say welcome to the dynasty club casey good stuff good stuff you know salute and uh and you know obviously this is great for a lot of players like you know mahomes has his third andy reed i believe has officially if there was any doubt before because some people obviously thought he was a product of mahomes there's a good argument that he is. But as of now, you can definitely say with the wins and now three rings, he's a Hall of Famer. I think that Taylor Swift's girlfriend, Travis Kelsey, definitely got himself into the Hall of Fame with this one as well. Probably is a top three tight end of all time, not better than Gronk or Gonzalez, but I'll give him number three because let's face it, he's kind of a wide receiver. But all jokes aside, I was kind of disappointed by this game.

It was a defensive rock fight for most of it until the very end. It was like a slightly better version of the Patriots-Rams 2018 Super Bowl. It was just very – They said better version. Calm down. So my point is it's just, I guess I expected more. I mean, I wanted fireworks. I thought this was going to be like where Mahomes takes to the fifth gear.

And it was just, I don't know. It just kind of felt like another game. And I don't know. And on a side note, I don't really like the new overtime rules. I really don't know. And on a side note, I don't really like the new overtime rules. I really don't. No, and it's not – and everybody, whenever I say that, everybody's like, oh, that's just because you want the Niners to win. It's like, no.

I mean, the Niners kicked a field goal, which means Kansas City would have gotten the ball back. So that's a moot point. It's just, I don't know. And now there's like a whole lot of controversy around it but believe me i will address that later because i had some thoughts but overall i just and i guess like but overall like i said i will tip my hat to my home that's really what it comes down to it i got really nothing just i was underwhelmed before i get to my takeaway i will

point out this supports your argument, CJ, about the offense. It was mostly on San Francisco's side because Travis Kelsey on his end held his end of the deal. Rasheed Rice was pretty solid in this game. But San Francisco's pass catching outside of Christian McCaffrey, Brandon Ayuk, three receptions, 49 yards. Debo Samuel, three receptions, 33 yards. George Kittle, two catches for four yards. This offense, which was electric all season long, kind of disappeared. So that's something that we'll have to take away from in next segment when we talk about the 49ers and some of their fallouts. But my general takeaway from this game is

if there's anything I have learned from the last two years from Kansas City, it is how much importance the quarterback really has. Now, I always knew that this was a quarterback-driven league, and when you win a Super Bowl, the quarterback, no matter if it's a quarterback is who is, uh, just a mediocre one who elevates his game or just in a hall of famer who plays at the level he's supposed to play at when you win the quarterbacks almost always in the middle of it. And, uh, turns out I'm a lot more, I was a lot more right about this than I really thought. And Patrick, Patrick Mahomes and Tom Brady are very much now,

I believe cut from the same cloth. And I always thought that, you know, it's a quarterback driven league. So therefore it makes a lot of the team better. That seems to be a lot more true than we all thought it was because, you know, a lot of people would argue,

well, he doesn't make the defense better. you know a lot of people would argue well he doesn't make the defense better what if he kind of does yeah he does hang on but like hold on a second like what if you know like think about the mental aspect to it if you have that quarterback who no matter who is on the field you always have a chance that's a confidence booster to anybody on the team that you know you are always going to be in it as long as Tom Brady is on the field, as long as Patrick Mahomes is on the field. And something just breaks your way and you just have the momentum and you jump on it. Sure, every quarterback needs their targets. Everyone needs their Rob Gronkowski. Everyone

needs their Travis Kelsey. But you only need a little bit if you have that future hall of fame quarterback like Tom Brady or Patrick Mahomes and we're seeing that right now and the fact that they were able to win a Super Bowl with this roster with this offense the offensive line was very mediocre their past catching core past Travis Kelsey and past maybe Rasheed Rice I guess we'll see what he turns into. It wasn't that good. In fact, I would say it was terrible. Kadarius Toney was costing them games, and he still managed to find a way to eke his way into the Super Bowl and win it?

That means that any given year, any given year for the rest of Patrick Mahomes' career could be his year. We couldn't say that about any other team before the Patriots, and we thought it would never happen again. It happened right after. And I heard this on Felger and Maz. I know people have some strong opinions on Felger and Maz. They said, Patrick Mahomes is a once-in-a-lifetime player who we have seen twice in a lifetime, referring to Tom Brady. We never thought we'd see Tom Brady again, but we're kind of seeing it right now. Who knows about the longevity we'll see,

but what we've seen so far, we can't deny that. This guy is one of the greatest quarterbacks of all time already. If he, if his career ended today, I'd have him top three. Yeah. And I mean, at the end of the day, when you kind of look at the way Patrick Mahomes has performed, I think what really won me over, and I've mentioned this the other night when the game ended, I said the day that Patrick Mahomes won me over, he won me over right from the start. I was like, this guy's great. But that no look pass that he threw across his body in Denver, I believe it was to either Travis Kelsey or to Jarek McKinnon at the time, but he was just able to pull these throws out that I have never seen

before. And just this playmaking ability that really inspires a team, but you can't, and it's just, it's proven he is Houdini. He can make the plays happen. And I do agree. It does inspire defense, but that does take away from the fact that you have a Hall of Fame defensive coordinator like Spagnuolo over there, who may I mention also defeated the New England Patriots in 07 as the defensive coordinator for the New York Giants at the time. You can't take away the talent from LeJarrius Sneed, Chris Jones, Trent McDuffie, and other guys on that defense because the Chiefs, despite having the best quarterback and tight end, some good pieces on offense to really move the ball forward, that defense is already pretty well cemented.

And that defense is what really helped them stay in games all season long. So at the end of the day, it's not just the quarterback. It's this team is just built to run well. And of course, Mahomes is going to be restructuring this contract this offseason. If they can keep Chris Jones and players like him on the Jarius Sneed this offseason, I expect we'll see more titles come out of this team because Chris Jones, in my opinion, is that anchor. He's the one that keeps that defense together. The Chiefs, they're just set up in a great position to keep moving forward for future titles.

Yeah, and we'll definitely get to their dynasty outlook so far because let's face it, it's a dynasty now. Three out of five, you went to a separate one. You've been to the conference championship six times with this quarterback starting. I like your angle on the Chiefs defense because they have been winning a lot on offense. And this is another thing. Credit to Patrick Mahomes in the same way we credited Brady. The offense was restructured. The whole team was restructured to fit more of a defense-first style. And Mahomes was still able to manage the game, take care of the football, make the throws

that he needed to make, and he was able to adapt to those changes. When you make these different changes on offense, on defense, and you're able to adapt to it, that screams to me sustainability. And this defense was, let's not, like, don't get it twisted. This defense was ferocious this year. They were top two in sacks this year, and their past defense was among the best. And if there is any aspect you're going to be bad at on defense, I would prefer the running game.

Because if you get ahead, they're not going to run the ball. We saw that with the Ravens. We saw that with the Bills. If you get ahead, they're going to be playing catch-up and they're going to try to throw it all over the place. Then you're going to have good luck there because you have Algeria Sneed and Trent McDuffie waiting for you. It's a pretty good defensive style if you ask me

cj i know you had some strong opinions on um on the chief's defense i'll let you continue um before we move on to our next segment yeah and look well i'm not a massive chiefs fan i can kind of sympathize with their fans how you know they're not going to beat the rigged allegations. And, you know, I mean, as Patriots fans, we had to deal with the deflate gate hoax and people screaming spy gate. Oh, the tuck rule was a fumble. And then everyone tries to discredit Brady by saying, oh, you know, he doesn't play defense. They're saying the same thing with Mahomes. Well, I have news for you. If you have an offense that sucks, an offense that continually goes three and out, that keeps turning the ball over, and the defense has to be out on the field more than they should, they are going to get gassed and it's going to lead to a decline in performance.

This is statistically proven. And, heck, I mean, you would want to be out there on that field too. And it's also – it's a mental game. Like you mentioned, if you know that you have Mahomes and you know that you have Brady, then, yeah, them just being there actually does serve as a boost to the defense. And there are many Hall of Fame level defenders that have said this as well. And, look, everyone's going to say, oh, I'm a chief sympathizer.

But no, this is actually like how it does happen. And the same can be said in reverse, where a lot of people attack Justin Herber. And you have those snotty Chargers fans, all six of them are like, Arm, actually, he doesn't play defense. Actually, if he would stop turning the ball over, same thing with Josh Allen, well, maybe the defense would have more time to actually rest up before the next drive, before another premature turnover, but that's either here or there. All right. Well, congratulations to the Kansas City Chiefs on becoming world champions. I mean,

it really is a spectacular accomplishment for what they have been able to work with the last two years that they have been able to win these Super Bowls. We're going to move on to the 49ers, however, their side of things, because it does not look pretty. They've had some strong success in the past decade and a half, but zero Super Bowls to show for it. We're going to get to that next. This is the Fumble Rooski Podcast. And the pass is no sign yet. Edelman comes down with a football. They're saying it's a catch.

It's a catch. To Gates! Side-line! Touchdown! Unbelievable! Swings it way down the field to Watkins! Sammy Watkins for the touchdown. Welcome back to the Fumble Rooski Podcast.

Adam Wright, CJ Medeiros, special guest Chris Heitu. All right, guys. So the 49ers, just the fact that they've made it to four AFC championships in five years, NFC championships in five years, two Super Bowls during that span, that's a great accomplishment. Atlanta Braves or the 2010s Los Angeles Dodgers. Lots of success. They've had lots of division titles, made some deep playoff runs. They each only had one championship to show for it. And that's kind of something that I'm thinking about a little bit here. This 49ers team, historically, you look at joe montana steve young they combined for four championships they are the team of yesterday just like the cowboys are uh only problem is today they're winning games they're holding their own they haven't won any super bowls seven champions Seven championships, since 2007, seven championships,

NFC Championship appearances, three Super Bowl appearances, zero Super Bowl victories during that span. I want an explanation as to why. Chris, what are your thoughts? It's tough because, I mean, obviously you can go back, way back, and talk about all of the times this team's lost in these big moments and not just conference championships, but as you said, Super Bowls. And I think what it comes down to is just the heat of the moment. And the thing is these teams,

we've seen some legendary players on these teams. You've seen Anquan Bolden, Frank Gore. You've seen Patrick Willis, Navarro Bowman in past years. And now in recent years, you've gotten the tandem of George Kittle, of Debo Samuel, Emmanuel Sanders, Brock Purdy, Jimmy Garoppolo. And the teams that have come together under the leaderships of Harbaugh and now Shanahan have all had great success and have been dominant teams and have been clear frontrunners. The Niners for next year are already the Super Bowl favorites once again. And it's really tough to put together because every time this team has made it as far as it has, they've always been my pick. This year was the first year I picked against them just because at this point, you can't pick against the greats. I did it with Tom Brady for a while,

which is kind of a little weird to say, considering I'm a diehard Patriots fan at the end of the day. But the thing is, there's just something that this team just can't, they just can't get out of their own way. And we saw it in this Super Bowl. We're in the start of the second half for three possessions. The team only ran the ball once. McCaffrey was dominating the ground game throughout that entire first half. Why would you not run the ball? Why would you not trust your halfback with that? I get it.

He fumbled on the first possession. But they kept feeding him the rock. And that's what you got to do. And the thing is, I made this comparison. Someone really spoke to me. History repeats itself, my friends. It really does. And I think what we're seeing right now is Kyle Shanahan is the modern day Andy Reid. Andy Reid, who's the one coach that he couldn't get out of the way of? It was Bill Belichick. Every step of the way, Bill Belichick was there. He stopped and he managed to shut them down. Not shut them down. They played competitive, the Philadelphia Eagles. There is a mountain in the way of Kyle Shanahan right now.

And that is Andy Reid and the Kansas City Chiefs. This team has the talent. It has the composure to go and win championships. But there's just always something missing. And it's without a doubt, play calling ability. Why would you not run the ball? You have the best running back in the NFL. Give it to him. He's the, if you look at the stats in the game, you mentioned this early on McCaffrey led the team in receptions for 80 yards with the touchdown, 80 yards on the ground. It's over 100 yards,

but you've got to figure out different schemes to get people like Deebo Samuel involved, George Kittle involved. The only play that Kittle had in that game that meant a lot was that fourth down conversion that gained him the four yards in that. The thing is, something's up with Kyle Shanahan and his ability. We saw it with the Atlanta Falcons when they managed to blow that entire 28-3 lead at half and managed to lose to the New England Patriots. Shanahan has a reputation now of fumbling the bag really hard. And there was times even in that first half they could have gone up by three possessions. The thing is, the Niners cannot get out of their own way.

That is their biggest issue. If they manage to figure out the right scheme, the right plays to move the ball methodically down the field and score, that's their game. The Chiefs just took advantage of the fact that the Niners couldn't get out of their own way in this one. And that's what we've seen in previous years. And if that continues, it's going to be tough to say that this team will ever win a championship. couldn't get out of their own way in this one. And that's what we've seen in previous years. And if that continues, it's going to be tough to say that this team will ever win a championship in the next decade. All right, CJ. Now, here's the deal. I wholeheartedly believe that the 2012 49ers team and the Kyle Shanahan Niners teams are fundamentally different because they went to a Super Bowl, right, where that team obviously was flawed.

You know, you had Colin Kaepernick, who was a good flash in the pan. The offense really didn't have too much. I mean, you had your elder statesman in Frank Gore. You had Michael Crabtree, I guess. Vernon Davis, who was also getting on in years, a decent O-line. But it was

the defense. And honestly, I can't really blame that Niners team for losing to the Ravens all those years ago because whether you believe right whether you believe that you know there was some shady stuff going on during the blackout whether you don't that doesn't change the fact that the ravens had a scary scary just horrifically just scary team i can't put that any other way. You know, they literally had guys like Jimmy Smith.

They had Ed Reed, Corey Graham, Pernell McPhee, Haloti Nada, Terrell Suggs, Ray Lewis, Paul Kruger, Courtney Upshaw. You know what I mean? Like these are guys that were scary, you know, guys you do not mess with. But the Chiefs, I mean, granted they were more offensively gifted, but still. And then when you look at when they were there in 2019, yeah, Jimmy G's not going to win you anything.

And you can say the same thing about Brock Purdy, but statistically Purdy is better than Jimmy G, and he was better than Brian Kaepernick. So I don't really believe Purdy's the problem. What it comes down to is Shanahan. And then that's just what it is. And Chris mentioned it. And I think he's correct.

Shanahan say with me, kids is a choker. That's what it is. It is in his head. I don't know if it's play calling. I don't know if it's personnel, but what I can tell it is. It is in his head. I don't know if it's play calling. I don't know if it's personnel, but what I can tell you is that it's in his head. We mentioned that there was 28 to three as an offensive coordinator where you were up, you had the Super Bowl right there. And once again, you snatched a feed out of the jaws of what should have been an easy victory.

You then blew another double digit lead to the Chiefs, and wouldn't you know it, lo and behold, another Super Bowl Sunday comes, and another 10-point or 10 or more point lead is blown. And it's just, and here's the thing, don't take my word for it. Some of the players and their friends know this. Because did you hear what the best friend and one of his head guys of, what's his name there, Brandon Ayuk said? Yes, his friend said, quote, this is the exact reason why we leaving San Francisco. Thank you, 49ers, for drafting my brother. We are forever grateful.

Why does your all-pro 1,300-yard receiver have three catches in the Super Bowl? And even still, George Kill, you mentioned two catches. And then they started moving away from what was working with McCaffrey. And I'll grant you the Chiefs' defense was better than in years past, but you should have the weapons to mitigate that. And look, yes, there were some things went against their way. Yes, Nick Bosa was being held on every play. Yes, there were some interesting probable PI calls that could have been called.

Yes, we know that. And yes, we know you lost a whole bunch of people in that game. You know, Kittle and Samuel were banged up. You lost Greenlaw. You lost one of your guards. But at what point in time do we start pointing the finger at Kyle Shanahan? I think that time has to be now. Because here's another coach I'd liken him to,

although that coach actually does have a ring, Mike Tomlin. Oh, Jesus, come on. Oh, no, no, and here's why. How many stacked teams has the Pittsburgh Steelers had, literally had a top five quarterback, a top ten defense, top ten O-line, the best receiver and the best running back in the game, and you kept failing? There is no reason for the Niners to keep failing the way they do. And they do. But the difference is Tomlin actually has a ring. And I'm just noticing that. I just, like I said,

I think the issue is Shanahan. But since we know he's the issue, you might, the issue, it's just, I'm trying to think of like how to word this, but there's nothing you can do. You obviously can't fire him. He just took you, you know, to Super Bowls. And the Niners have always been relatively good under him. You can't fire him. That would be like when the Chargers fired Marty Schottenheimer after he went 14-2. That was ridiculous. And you would have that on your face for it.

So I guess the question is, what do you do? Do you get him like a hypnotherapist? Do you put him on meds? Like, this is a mental game for him, and it's something he needs to figure out soon. Because believe you me, kids, narratives are forming. All right. Let me – so first of all, let me start by stating the quarterbacks that they have worked with during this span of time. Alex Smith, Colin Kaepernick, Jimmy Garoppolo, Brock Purdy. The teams that they were, the quarterbacks that these Kyle Shanahan-led teams were facing,

Tom Brady and Patrick Mahomes twice. So what's the common denominator here? It's the quarterback. So yeah, you have solid quarterbacks starting, and you have amazing talent around them, but you don't have the quarterback. And your head coach has been Jim Harbaugh and Kyle Shanahan. And those two have great reputations as coaches. So what that tells me is it's really the coach that's the common denominator here so i look at that you know they like patrick mahomes was not working with much he really

wasn't he had a he has a future hall of fame uh future hall of fame tight end he has decent talent at the wide receiver position at the at the very top decent wide receiver decent wide receiver wide receiver production from rishi rice and the year before that juju smith schuster and he makes do with brock purdy with jimmy garoppolo with colin kaepernick they haven't been able to get the job done. So yeah, coaching matters. The rest of the roster matters, but it's a quarterback driven league. And I understand that there's being an elite quarterback and then there's being Tom Brady and Patrick Mahomes, but that's what those 49ers teams had back, back in the day. They had Joe Burrell. They had Joe Montana. So there's the difference right there. They're trying to find

that quarterback. You could tell when they traded up to get Trey Lance and they believe they have something in Brock Purdy. He was okay in this game. And I do believe that if you are playing any other team, any other quarterback opposite sideline that is not Patrick Mahomes, I think they win. Maybe not the Ravens. What's that? Maybe not the Ravens. Which Ravens team? This one.

Like this year? Yes. Because the Ravens, as you may recall, blew their doors off. That's neither here nor there. Yeah, that's the postseason though. That's tough because Lamar Jackson is, but that's either here nor there. Yeah. That's the post season though. That's tough. That's tough because Lamar Jackson is there. That's a very, that's a side tangent. We could have an,

we can have another debate another day with that. We can say most, okay. Most other teams that, that, that night they beat, they beat them, but it was Patrick Mahomes. And in years past in the past era, back in the 80s and 90s, they had that guy on that sideline. Now they don't. They have okay production. I'm not going to say it's bad, but I think that's the biggest issue here.

Jim Harbaugh and Kyle Shanahan are very good coaches, but they've never had that elite quarterback they've never had that guy and the guy on the other sideline did have him they had him in super bowl 51 the patriots did the falcons did not they had matt ryan in 2019 the chiefs had the the chiefs had patrick mahomes and and i Mahomes and this further supports my argument what has Andy Reid won before he had Patrick Mahomes right

he's had Alex Smith before he's had Donovan McNabb they've won a decent amount of games it wasn't until they got that quarterback where they started winning championships so there's my argument I think it's more the quarterback than anything else decent amount of games, but once they got that, it wasn't until they got that quarterback where they started winning championships. So there's my argument.

I think it's more of the quarterback than anything else. Yeah. I mean, I can agree with that because I mean, at the end of the day, if you have that guy, you're set. Just lay back, call the plays and let him do his work as magic. That's just the way it is. And we've seen it throughout history and the quarterbacks that have been winning the most in the past recent years have been Tom Brady, Patrick Mahomes. Those are your top Super Bowl champions right now.

So it's a great point. I mean, I think it still goes back to the whole mantra of play calling and decision making. And at the end of the day, coaching is a big reason why this Niners team could not get it done. There was definitely opportunities for them to get that ball in the end of the day, coaching is a big reason why this Niners team could not get it done. There was definitely opportunities for them to get that ball in the end zone in overtime or even in the fourth quarter to put themselves ahead of Kansas City. So for me, you had the opportunity.

It was right in your grasp, and it slipped away from you time and time again because of poor decision-making. There was a chance the Niners had. I'm not going to say it was a huge chance to beat the Chiefs because it's like you said, it goes back to the quarterback and the homes always will find a way. The greats always find a way to overcome adversity. But at the end of the day, I still think coaching plays a big tell in terms of what this team's ability is going to do. Because we've seen in history, we've seen teams with lackluster quarterbacks go out and win a Super Bowl. The greats win more often than that. But there's times that it's a possibility. So you still have

to hold them to that in a way. Because sure, you can say, yeah, go out and get a better quarterback. That's hard to come by nowadays. A lot of guys that we see come out of college that we think are going to blow our minds just slip into the cracks, and they just don't end up panning out. We see it so many times. We saw it with people like Baker Mayfield, who we thought would come out and be amazing, Justin Fields. And these guys are just in a poor system, maybe poor coaching staff. But at the end of the day, if you've got the team, if you've got the roster, you got the plays,

execute and you will win the game. Let me also point out that it's kind of turning into the NBA in the sense that if you don't have that superstar player who is the best player in all of basketball that you don't end up winning anymore like it used to be before during brady's era it was if you have the star quarterback you have a chance right rothlisberger one one two breeze one one er uh rogers one one eli manning if you want to count him one, two, uh, Kurt Warner one, one Russell Wilson got one. Uh, nowadays Joe Burrow has nothing. Jalen hurts has nothing. Josh Allen has nothing. Lamar Jackson has nothing now that it's early in their career. So it could change for any one of them. But, uh, if it's gotten to a point and at this point in our in our league's

uh lore let's say uh that if you're not tom brady or patrick mahomes you're you have a very remote chance of winning a ring that makes it a significantly harder because again like i said if that 49ers team plays any other team besides the chiefs with patrick mahomes i think they pull out that victory with the way they performed they were i thought they were fine they were okay they had they had some issues they it wasn't perfect but they played a good game that doesn't always show in the statistics but I thought they were fine. They made some mistakes, obviously. But that's the thing with having that quarterback. And if you lack anywhere else, but you have that elite quarterback

who is able to make up for your weaknesses, then that's where you're that's where you're going to uh win some championships the bengals might have it with joe burrow but uh they're trying their best to ruin his career with injuries um all right i want to move away from the 49ers now that we've talked to death this team that still can't get over the hump let's talk about the Chiefs who have three times and what things look like going forward. We're going to talk about the Chiefs and their dynasty outlook. What are the odds that they win more championships?

How long do they keep up this pace? We're going to talk about that next. This is the Fumble Rooski Podcast. And comes down with a football, and they're saying it's a catch. It's in. What? Degates! Sideline! Touchdown! Unbelievable!

Swings it way down the field to Watkins! Sammy Watkins for the touchdown! you are listening to the fumble ruski podcast by the eight and secret weapon consulting adam right cj madero special guest chris he too so the chiefs as i have alluded to earlier have won three out of the last five super Bowls. They've been to an extra during that span, and they've been to the conference championship for every single season that Patrick Mahomes has been starting for the Chiefs. That's six straight.

Where do we see this going forward? Because they've been winning at an alarming rate that is looking like if it continues, it's going to dwarf the New England Patriots, who we thought that would never be topped. And it's about to right after the Patriots dynasty just ended. What are we thinking here? How is this going to continue? Chris, I know you had some strong thoughts. I'll give it to you. Yeah. So, I mean, you look at the comparison between Tom Brady and Patrick Mahomes and what we're seeing just at a record setting pace for him. He's just doing all the things that Brady was just not able to do at a young age. And sure, the league was in a different place at that

time. I argue to this day, some people will say the league is much harder now. I am in full belief the league was much harder when Brady was playing at the end of the day, because you had a much more wide talent of quarterbacks coming into the league at that moment. You had Peyton Manning. You had Russell Wilson. You had tons of other quarterbacks that really played a role. And the thing is, people argue, OK, but we have Josh Allen. We have Lamar Jackson.

We have Joe Burrow. And the thing is, sure, those are great quarterbacks, but they haven't won anything. All these other guys that we'd seen in the Brady era were winning Super Bowls while Brady was sitting at home watching them win these championships. Big Ben did it. Big Ben did it. Peyton Manning did it. Eli Manning beat the Patriots twice in the Super Bowl against the Patriots. So the thing is, at the end of the day, there's definitely a comparison there, but I have to give some compliments to the Chiefs and to Patrick Mahomes, because these teams that the Chiefs have had all these years, they've won them the past three Super Bowl wins. They've been great. They've had great pieces to the teams. And despite even

this year where people were rooting against the Chiefs being like, hey, man, I just don't think they're going to get over the hump this year. They just don't look right. They defied all odds. They battled the adversity and they got where they needed to be. They put the right pieces around Mahomes. When I thought when Tyreek Hill left the Chiefs, I was like, this is it. We're going to see the downfall of this organization and people are going to laugh at the name of Patrick Mahomes. But this Super Bowl proved a lot to me in terms of what this team has and what it's going to continue with going forward. Mahomes already has three Super Bowl wins at age 28. The stats that he has compared to Brady in playoff and Super Bowl

comparisons, much higher than what Brady has achieved in terms of those three Super Bowls that he won first. Still a large mountain to climb. He needs four more championships to really be at the top of that GOAT conversation. But I made a bold take the other night. And to be honest, I'll probably have to stand by it now that I said it, but I'll say it right here. I think the Chiefs will be the first NFL organization to three-peat in the Super Bowl. I think what they have going forward and what they have now is just too dominant. It really is. And I mean, if they continue that dominance going forward, we're going to see this team for years to come. And sure, people have told me in New England, oh, I've had some friends who are big diehard Pats fans say,

people hate the Chiefs more than they do the Patriots back then. I'm like, no, that's really wrong because I've met so many people outside of New England that despise the Patriots, but adore the Kansas City Chiefs. One of my friends loved Tom Brady, big Pats fan, but loves Patrick Mahomes, was rooting for Patrick Mahomes in the Super Bowl. Yeah, I know, it's tough. I'm rooting against the guy, but you got to love what he brings to the table. We've never seen greatness like this, and it's kind of crazy that we've seen greatness kind of come so quickly after we were seeing what everybody and what everybody should know as is the greatest quarterback of all time

exit the game and hand the baton off to the next one potentially. And I think we will potentially see a three-peat this upcoming year. I guarantee we'll see the Chiefs in the Super Bowl next season. Will they win? I don't know, but we'll see. All right, CJ. You know, I think if they really want to add on more rings, obviously you strike while the iron is hot because I don't know how easier it gets from here because on the plus side, side yes you have cemented yourself

as the new dynasty however all us Patriots fans can attest that means you have a target on your back teams that are only going to win one two or three games a year have you circled on their schedule you will get their best you know and everybody everyone's going to want to take you down like i said you have a target on your back that's just how it is every seems like every offseason teams are going to swarm and pick parts of your coaching staff away you will hemorrhage pieces in the front office you may end up hemorrhaging coordinators and that's just how it is you know as patriots they had to deal with it forever. And the Patriots, what made their run impressive,

what's making the Chiefs run impressive, is that this is the salary cap era. You know? I mean, and let's face it. Chris Jones has told everyone he's not coming cheap. And all signs are pointing to that even though he just won, Chris Jones is a goner. He will leave the Chiefs unless he has a sudden change of heart, wants to play for less money.

Everyone's saying, oh, but Mahomes can just restructure his deal. He's on a $500 million deal. That ship has sailed. And when they say restructure, it means you're just backloading his deal. You're moving it to later years, which the bill still comes due. Now you're just going to have less purchasing power. And you have a lot of young guys like Trent McDuffie and Isaiah Pacheco, and eventually Rasheed Rice, where the bill's going to come due for them too. And in this day and age, this is not an indictment on the chiefs. This is an indictment on the league culture in general. Young guys, and there have been some old heads. I mean, granted, they might just be old and in the way.

They can argue that teams, I mean, people don't really want to take pay cuts to win anymore. That's what's special about New England. You have good players like Tom Brady who take pay cuts to stay. The era of the pay cut to win is over. Today, these young kids, they come out, they want to go out, stuff the stat sheet, and get their numbers. So it's going to be a lot harder, and if you want to, it's going to be now, because especially as players like Burrow and Lamar get older, it's going to get tougher. But for all intents and purposes, I don't see any reasons why the

Chiefs can't win at least three more. Let me tell you why it's going to be a lot harder than you might think for them to continue the current dynasty that they have. I've stated before, there was a 10-year gap between Brady's third and fourth Super Bowl. Doesn't mean it's going to be the same way for Mahomes, but that's the way it was for Brady. And don't look now, but Andy Reid has been flirting with retirement. He's been rumored to possibly retire. Will he retire this off season? I have no idea, but he is 65. So therefore he may not retire this year, but it could be next year. It could be two years, three years from now, either way, his years are limited in this league. So coaching may become an issue for Patrick Mahomes,

his future Hall of Fame quarterback. And we have seen Hall of Fame quarterbacks working with not so great coaches. Doesn't always work out very well. Dan Marino went his entire career without winning a Super Bowl. I'm not saying it's going to go that way, but it could go somewhere. It could go south. Peyton Manning didn't work with the best coaching. He still had a successful career, but he only had two Super Bowl victories to show for it. I'm not saying it's going to work out that way, but it's something to look at. Also, Patrick Mahomes' favorite toy on the field,

Travis Kelsey, is turning 35 next year. I understand that Mahomes has been able to do more with less, and I've been hammering this point that you can't do anything with nothing. If you work without Travis Kelsey, and we've seen Mahomes without Kelsey on the field, it's not as good. That will be a problem. They'll find a new toy eventually, but how long before they get that guy? And will they be able to pay that guy with Mahomes' contract? That's something to consider. So, yes, it's going well now,

but things are going to get interesting for how they are going to be able to manage this situation for this team going forward. Because coaching might be an issue. Their pass catching core might be an issue. That's something to consider. Because don't take for granted the Super Bowls that they are winning. Because it's not that easy to win in this league. When you have the talent and you have that Hall of Fame cyborg quarterback,

then you get there, and they're still going to have the quarterback. But they may not have the talent for that much longer. Travis Kelsey is not going to be in the league much longer. And if he is, it'll be a Jason Witten-type situation, where he's around, he's there, but he's not quite as elite as he once was when he first entered the league. Because let's face it, especially a tight end position. I know he has some of the best longevity we've ever seen, but it's not going to last forever. Father Time always

wins, no matter who it is that we're talking about. So that's what I'm worried about with this Chiefs dynasty. They're going to win more championships. It's a matter of when versus if they will, because it's Patrick Mahomes. As long as you have the, have the quarterback, you have a chance. That's my takeaway from that. Um, all right, Chris, I know you said over chat, you want that you needed to go. Is that right now? Yeah, I'll probably have to get rolling after this segment's done. Unfortunately. Sounds good. Um, did you want to touch real quickly on Patrick Mahomes legacy? Just talk, we'll just go right into it. Or do you want to go now?

Um, I'll just say a quick piece on it, I guess, and let you guys get to the rest of the show. I guess what I'd have to say about his legacy is right now, where you place him in terms of the top tiers of quarterbacks, he's got to be number two. He's right below the go. He's proven just through these early years. He's only 28. He'll be 29 next season, but he has just defied all the odds that most people had for a quarterback like him coming into this league. We knew he was going to be great, but we didn't think he'd exceed the expectations like the way he did. And he's just climbing that Mount Rushmore in the most fastest way we've ever seen in the history of this league. And it's amazing to see,

and it's awesome to see. And at the end of the day, as much as I don't want to see him go after and take those rings away from Brady in the future and take away that top of the mountain piece that Brady holds as of right now, he's doing all the right things. He's got the right system beneath him. So as long as things keep going in the direction that they need to, there's no doubt we'll see Patrick Mahomes. And he's already been seen as one of the greats. And he will go down in history as one of the greatest quarterbacks to ever touch the field in this beautiful game that we all love. So for him right now, he's in the perfect spot. He's at the number two. Used to be what I'd say is probably Peyton Manning at number two, but it's got to be him at this point.

Yeah, that's a very fair argument that he's at two. He's two, maybe three. It's very hard to argue against that right now. It really is. If he retired today, he's a first ballot Hall of Famer. For me, I have him at number four. I always have Brady one, and then either Montana Manning at two or three.

He can flip flop. Because a lot of it is rings are great, but statistically he just doesn't stack up to Manning yet. And that's just an issue of longevity. I think he'll get there. Certainly. All right, Chris, thank you so much for joining the show. It's always great to have you and to get your analysis on the game. It was a great Super Bowl. It was a little slow at times,

but it's always fun just to watch the big game and have a competitive matchup. Absolutely. Yeah. And thank you guys once again for having me on. I'm looking forward to come back on as a guest at some point. That'd be great. Yeah. All right, Chris, thanks very much. I'll see you around. Thank you. Have a great day guys. See ya. See ya. Don't fall in. All right. Um, so let me get to my takeaway just for Patrick Mahomes, his legacy. Um, he is definitely top three. He is already a first ballot hall of famer if he retired today. And he's already done more than Pat, more than Peyton Manning. I think he's, so I think he's better than Peyton Manning. No, I think he's better than Peyton Manning. Yes. I also think he's, I also think you can make a case. You're not, he's not quite there yet. Him and him and Joe Montana are neck and neck. I think they are around the same level.

If Mahomes retired today, I'd have to give the slight edge to Joe Montana just because he has more Super Bowl victories. And he also does, Joe Montana does have two league MVPs, which matches him. Yeah, and Peyton Manning has more he has more passing yards and he has more passing touchdowns what's your point with longevity yeah and you can't hold longevity against Super Bowls came with the different teams Peyton Manning was actually the first quarterback in NFL history to win two Super Bowls with two different teams but Holmes goes somewhere else and wins then yeah sure I mean did it too. His arm was a noodle for that last one.

Okay. And? It matters. That matters. Okay. Yeah. And a defense and two lucky plays carried Eli Manning, yet Giants fans will still claim he's the Messiah. I'm not. That's cute. I'm just saying, like, it's all a matter of comparison. It's like, okay, so his arm was a noodle for that like good for him people think nick foals is a messiah he's not he had that

he made a day a deal with the devil for that one playoff run won a super bowl and then peaced out to the rest of the league that's it i mean like mean, like, I'm sorry, but I think he is above Peyton Manning. He's achieved more than him, at least for what he can control. I'm not going to say you're wrong, but okay. And Manning also has more MVPs. So Mahomes has one more ring where he faces worse competition. Because he was in the league for like 16 years. Of course you're going to have that

i think he's i think peyton manning's an all-time great quarterback one of the greatest passes of all time and i think he deserves more rings than he got but what he got is what he had faced with competition but holmes just to be fair does have it a little easier i mean to be and like i said the only people the only people homes ever lost to in the playoffs are Joe Burrow and twice to Tom Brady. Right. You know, it is Brady, but still. And he's beaten Josh Allen three times, who's been one of the best quarterbacks in the game since he's entered the league. Josh Allen is an overrated turnover baker.

So don't even mention that. It's still an accomplishment. He's one of the elites in the league. I agree with you. He's not the best. He may not be top three, but he's still one of the best in the league. He's at least top five. Okay.

But what does that say if he's top five? Maybe there's like a standard issue is all I'm saying. Well, now we're just and see you see how you see how great mahomes is that we are comparing other quarterbacks to mahomes and not comparing other quarterbacks to each other that's a brady that's a brady trait well yeah because you go back and forth in the league and i i remember this is another thing where i think two things can be true at once also what brady had to deal with and manning had to deal with in terms of each other plus drew breeze ben roethlisberger aaron rogers and even quick stints from guys like mvp cam

and even like a few good seasons from russell wilson i mean those are leaps and bounds better than josh allen justin Justin Herbert I mean I'll give some credit to Lamar he's a two-time MVP and even guys like you know Joe Burrow I guess and then there's like the NFC where I mean that Brock Purdy Jalen Hurts yeah well the NFC is a barren wasteland right now it is that it has been that way since Mahomes has gotten into the league. But Jalen Hurts has held his own against Patrick Mahomes in the games. I'm not saying that they, like all of these quarterbacks combined for one win in the postseason. That's not only a credit to Mahomes,

but it's also on, it's a negative reflection on all those quarterbacks since they have a bunch of victories against him in the regular season mahomes is able to elevate his game once the regular once the postseason comes along these all all these quarterbacks most of them are shells of their former selves in the postseason yeah once again i think that just says more about the actual quarterbacks themselves than it does about mahomes. It says, again, two things can be true at once. I literally said that, all right. Okay, yes. So two things can be true at once.

You can give credit to Patrick Mahomes for being able to elevate his game, but also say, guys, this is a lot of talent we have during the regular season, and it all disappears come the postseason. It shouldn't be this lopsided i agree but you you can't hold that against patrick mahomes you just can't oh you you seem to have no issue holding against peyton manning so why bother against peyton manning yeah we're all just like oh yeah mahomes is just magically better even but it's whatever so are you stating the fact that you know manning had to deal with better people or does that get held against him like how does this work well manning disappeared in the postseason too yeah and yet you know all right and still like doesn't that you

know more mvps but holmes only has one more super bowl so i mean i don't know and once again statistically manning dwarfs him Manning dwarfs him. Manning dwarfs him right now, but that's mainly because of the longevity in the league. So there are some things that Mahomes just can't control, but we have to do a talk show right now. We're not going to talk about this. We're not going to just say, let's not have this conversation and talk about this eight years from now. That's just lazy analysis. It's boring. No one wants to do that. Let's talk about the rule. I mean, you'll agree with that, but even still,

his single-game records and season records are still better. Well, Mahomes did throw for 50 touchdowns. Yeah, and Manning threw for 56. And he did it in fewer games. And the fact that Manning put up better stats in fewer games. I'm just saying. Fact check. Same amount of games.

2018 was still a 16-game season. Okay. Fact check. Still six more. Yeah. Okay. And Manning still threw for more touchdowns in that time period. I don't.

Okay. He threw for five more. But, yeah. I thought he threw 56. Peyton Manning is an for more touchdowns in that time period. Like I don't. Okay. He threw for five more, but yeah, Peyton Manning is an all time great, but I'd rather take the, I'd rather take the hardware and the postseason pedigree than what Manning, what, then what Manning accomplished during the regular seasons.

It's just not as, it's not as relevant. We've seen it. We've seen these great seasons from Joe Burrow, Lamar Jackson, Josh Allen. And what have they had to show for it during the post season? They completely disappear against my homes. So like, yeah, I look at it the same way with Brady. Yeah. There were some better quarterbacks during some individual seasons with Brady, but those quarterbacks fell

apart. Once the regular season started. Tom Brady stayed the same or got better. He elevated his game. That is what Mahomes does. Yeah, but have you also considered that Mahomes has benefited greatly from Andy Reid? I think it's another thing where they help kind of make each other, because we all know that if Mahomes goes to Chicago, he won't be what he is now. And you have to look at who has Peyton Manning really had as a coach. He had Tony Dungy. Okay. And Oh, Oh, Tony Dungy. You mean the, the, the pity entry into the hall of fame. And what didn't he have Jack Del Rio for a season? He was probably his offensive coordinator, but I think he had him. Okay. Yeah. What are you going to tell me that

jack del rio is a good coach i'm not saying that at all you can hold you can hold coaching again against uh for peyton manning yep and not to mention kubiak is god he was overrated and then he dragged john fox to a super bowl believe. So I don't know. Right. This is all a very fair argument. I'm just saying. Also, Mahomes has been put in a better situation. And if you look at Peyton Manning's earlier years, where he had damn near no one to throw

to and was literally left to die behind one of the worst offensive lines in the league, he got a slower start, which actually impacted him more than mahomes sitting for his first year you still can't hold this against peyton man against uh patrick mahomes the same way you can't hold against peyton manning well people held it against tom brady and what did he do once he left once he left for tampa it was the same results so you just can't hold it against pay just can't hold it against Patrick Mahomes. And honestly, yes, I might have agreed with you a couple of years ago, even a couple months ago, about Patrick Mahomes to the Bears. But the way he has played for this Chiefs team, I don't know.

It wouldn't have been as good, but it would have been still pretty good. I think he's still a future Hall of Famer if he's a Bear no no they they would have killed him you know what i mean like that that's just my stance they might have tried but it could have been a joe burrow type situation where he's still able to succeed but like once you have that history again once you have that quarterback once you have that guy who's a human cyborg then he's able to make the he yeah i mean like if he went to the bear's now he'd probably be good but that's just because he's already developed and you mentioned tom brady going to tampa but i'd like to point out if i may that he already had damn near two decades of experience under his belt so so i don't think that quite adds

up he was in his 40s do you know how many quarterbacks have been able to play at that level in their 40s one okay and my point is he was already an established starter with that skill set he is an anomaly but still he had he already had the experience so he could just go somewhere because he already had the skills. Could Brady have started out if he was drafted somewhere else and done what he did? Probably not. That's for completely different reasons. He just wouldn't have gotten the chance. Patrick Mahomes was a top 10 pick. If he goes to the Bears, they give him a fair chance. Tom Brady is a very special case. Mahomes even had to sit for a year, which showed he wasn't ready out of the gate. So what? So you think that the Bears just chuck him into the fire week one

and he still becomes this? No, he does not. He could. Quarterbacks do that all the time. Peyton Manning did that. Oh, you mean number one in the world? Peyton Manning? Brett Favre did that.

He started his rookie year as well. And Josh Allen did that as well. Some quarterbacks start their rookie years and it doesn't look good at first, but they figure it out as the seasons go on. It's very hard to be an elite quarterback in this league in your first three years as a starter. That's just facts. Yeah. And here's the reason every quarterback you can name who started out slow and then picked it up, I could name another one that just never picked it up. There are far more bust cases in that scenario.

That's probably what would have happened. He had the luxury of being coached by Andy Reid. He had the luxury of coming into the league with Tyree Kill and Travis Kelsey, and he had the luxury of sitting under Alex Smith, where he would not have any of that in Chicago, where they have shown time and time again they can't develop quarterbacks. You put any other quarterback on this past year's Chiefs team,

do you think they're going anywhere near an AFC championship, let alone a Super Bowl? No. Probably. Maybe if it's like Lamar, because Lamar had a better season well i mean i'm just saying like not not like a better season i mean like he's still an mvp season with worse weapons with his first mvp sure but that's in the regular season his his game tapers off significantly during the postseason.

That's what I'm saying. I'm saying, like, talent-wise, a lot of these quarterbacks are a lot closer than we might think. But the difference is that their game, that Mahomes' game elevates during postseason time. These guys all fall apart. You can make kind of a case for joe burrow but that's it maybe i guess what i mean agree to disagree but still i mean my point is it's just you literally put him anywhere else i mean i think i could take the same question rephrase it if you put him on

a good but not great team like i don't know the bears do they go to the Super Bowl? No, they don't. Patrick Mahomes? No, no. Yes. Terrible head coach, middling defense, bad O-line. We would have seen the Patrick Mahomes when he was facing the Buccaneers in that Super Bowl. I mean, he would have been good, but not really. Tom Brady on the Buccaneers?

I'm talking about like the Chiefs Buccaneers Super Bowl. That's the version of homes you would have seen if he went to chicago their offensive line wasn't that bad this year it got a lot better this season they have braxton jones who's who had a down year but he was assault he was a nice little late round pick uh darnell right still needs some work but on the on the interior they kind of figured it out with cody white hair and a couple other play guys they got in free agency, but they, it's not as it's, it's worse than the, it's worse than Kansas cities, but it's not bad enough so that it's like it was in that during that super bowl, that was absolutely atrocious. And there were a couple of reasons for it.

First of all, they, they were missing three of their five starters on the offensive line. So I think you put him on that Bears team, then I think they're at least in the playoffs. They're at least in a conference championship. It's Patrick Mahomes we're talking about. He makes everything better. All right, I guess.

But back to my point, I think he is top three all time right now. I think Tom Brady is still the greatest of all time, and it's still going to be, I mean, listen, it's still going to be difficult for Mahomes to pass Brady simply because of his longevity. And people say, oh, well, just give it time. Well, you could say that about a lot of the quarterbacks who played well. Troy Aikman won three Super Bowls before he turned 30. The rest of his, how'd that work out for the rest of his career?

Right? It's hard to have sustainability too and the argument for brady is rock solid right he had three hall of fame careers in his in his entire time in the league he played in three decades in the early 2000s he won three superbow In the early 2000s, he won three Super Bowls. That 10 years in between, that's still a Hall of Fame career because he went to two Super Bowls and he won two MVPs. That's more of a Dan Marino phase, right? Then you go to late in his career, he wins four Super Bowls and then an extra MVP. I mean, the, the guy, like it's rock solid, but yeah, Mahomes has done amazing with what he has done, but he still has a long way to go. If he does it, then he does it. But let's not talk about saying that it's going to be easy because it's not. And there's a reason it's only been done once before with Brady. If it happens again, sure. But with the play style, let's also take this in another angle.

With the play style that Patrick Mahomes uses, do you think he's going to be running around like this and tossing it at all these different angles at age 40 no absolutely not he's gonna have to evolve and he i think he he can no he can but that's the thing it's like you know that's the thing he needs to adapt yeah he's like i think he will but it's just remember as you get old like the arm strength will probably falter with you and he's just going to have to adapt his game but that's something we can open up a few years down the line yes but we're that's a few years from now we're having a talk show now okay talking about it

like what they what he needs to do i mean some some of these throws it's it's not very good mechanics at all which he pulls off because he's a freakish athlete. But 10 years, 10 to 15 years from now, he's not going to be able to pull that off. So he'd have to work on his mechanics. He would have to be a lot smarter with which plays he does run on and which plays that he stays in the pocket. Maybe he runs out of the pocket and he throws it

away. He's going to have to figure stuff like that out because it's not going to stay like that forever. So like with, with what you could at least say about Brady is his play style was sustainable. He stands in the pocket. He moves when he needs to, he avoids the rush but he doesn't do anything freakish to any sort of extent so it was sustainable what mahomes does he'll he'll do it for a while how long is it going to last though yeah i don't know and i also think how you mentioned before with andy reed being up there in age he's not going to stay forever but by then I think he'll probably have the tools he needs, but either, either way to put this all on the homes is frankly incorrect because without Andy Reed, I don't know how far they go. Although,

although I have said before, Andy Reed has been very overrated without the homes. It's still like a cyclical thing. You know, they make each other. You're right. You're right. Because he's a good offensive minded head coach. You know what I mean? still like a cyclical thing you know they make each other you're right you're right they because he's a good offensive minded head coach you know what i mean like that's really what it comes down to and all i'm saying luxury of playing for him all i am saying is that's what we said about belichick with brady and then he left and then brady left and he it turns out he proved all of

us wrong and so did belichick in a in in all the wrong ways. Yeah. I mean, but the thing is with Brady though, you have to remember, I mean, I love Brady. I think he's a great quarterback, but we can't admit he did take the easy way out after a rough year in New England. He ran with his tail between his legs to Sam Fran,

where he got, you know, I won't say like Kevin Durant to the warriors, where he just brought everybody together. San Francisco, not San Francisco, not San Francisco. Tampa Bay, not San Francisco. Yeah, sorry. Where, you know, they already had Godwin, Brayton Evans.

He brings over Fournette, Gronk, and that. So, yeah, I mean, he brought talent with him. The guys won seven games before. They won seven games the season prior. I don't like that argument because bringing up LeBron James on the Heat, he at least brought players with him. He brought in Chris Bosh as well. Yeah, but Wade was already there.

They had pieces like Birdman and Wade already there. My point is they already had a good offense. They were a team that had a good offense. They were a team that was a quarterback away. What do you mean? No, he, I won't lie.

He took pieces and he jumped ship. He ran with his tail between his legs to Tampa. That's what he did. It was, I mean, he didn't make the playoffs since 2008. They couldn't find that quarterback and it's a tall task. It was still a good team. They still,

we've mentioned before you had derrick white i mean not derrick way up whatever the new linebackers put matt ryan on that buccaneers team what are they doing okay you're comparing apples and oranges you said they needed the quarterback that's a quarterback he was an mvp made okay and okay sure just dig up eli minnegan retirement and put him there see See, I can play this game too. It's called circular reasoning. It's like, oh, well, if, but no. So you're telling me all they needed was a human cyborg and Tom Brady?

That's all they needed? Yes. I mean, do you – look, you had an offense that had – ready? Just hear me out. And when you have Brady bringing people over, yeah, if you can play with Mike Evans, Antonio Brown, Chris Godwin, Rob Gronkowski, Cameron Bray, and Leonard Fournette, and Ronald Jones behind the top 10 offensive line, yeah,

you know, I think you'll be okay. And especially since you just said they only won because the Chiefs weren't that good and their own line was bad, then yes, I think they could have. I mean, Matt Ryan was obviously past his prime, but if you put somebody like, I don't know, like Stafford there, absolutely. I don't think they're winning a Super Bowl with anyone but Brady. I don't think so. Okay. They Bowl with anyone but Brady. I don't think so. Okay.

Why? They had a quarter of a second. Why not? Why? They have a quarter. Because it's Tampa Bay. It's not just a college issue. They had all the-

So when I say it's Chicago, that's fine. But no, when you say Tampa Bay, that's perfectly logical. What? I said the same thing with Chicago. No, I said Mahomes wouldn't go there and be good i mean if he was drafted there because of chicago but now it's like no just because it's tampa bay like see like the double standard here tampa bay and chicago are cut from the same cloth they are so if you put so if you put patrick mahomes or tom brady on either of those teams they're

automatically a contender but i don't i don't think it works that way with most of the other quarterbacks in the league. I don't think it does. I'm just saying Matt Stafford just went to the Rams and got a ring, and they had a stacked team, and I'm just using the same logic. But they were a playoff team in years prior. They made a Super Bowl with Jared Goff a couple years, and they were in the playoffs almost every year.

And they only missed the playoffs almost every year and they only missed the playoffs once. And it was only by a game. It was on the last day of the regular season. All right. But you have to also keep in mind the changes that Tampa Bay made. Brady brought them in. And if you still bring in those same guys and you just put Stafford on there, then yeah, you probably can because they were armed to the teeth on offense and defense. The only one he really brought in was Antonio Brownio brown and he was way it's more name recognition with anything within anything sure he was still really good i don't think he was a wide receiver one anymore and i don't and he also there was an attitude yeah and there was an attitude thing that did i

i don't hold it i don't let the stealers off the hook for keeping him around for that long because I do think he was part of the problem there for why they weren't able to get themselves over the hump. I think that's part of the issue. Yeah, he brought him in. It's good talent. But if they bring in Antonio Brown and they don't have Tom Brady, are they going to the

playoffs no oh yeah if you just put anyone back there I'm saying if they got a guy like Stafford then yeah probably they go with that three-headed monster absolutely not a Super Bowl and if they did play the Chiefs which you have before said you know pampa bay benefited from a bad offensive line and so on i mean i'm just saying given that same logic that yeah they probably could have i don't think they're winning a super bowl i just don't i think there's a it's a culture it's also it's also a cultural thing there there's a lot of areas who in and of themselves was a pretty decent head coach he was good good. I like him. He's a good quarterback whisperer, but you need Tom Brady.

You need Patrick Mahomes. You need like an elite, elite quarterback. Even like, just look at elite quarterbacks who have jumped ship to other teams. Kurt Warner went to another team and they went to a Super Bowl. Brett Favre went to another team. They went to a conference championship. Joe Montana went to a conference championship with the chiefs

they've all flirted with a super bowl but they never went over the hump like brady did and i think that's something to take note of that it's very it's hard to change teams change coaches change cultures and just win a Super Bowl in your first year there. Okay, so I have a question. No, no, no, no, no. If Tom Brady, let's just say... I'm really enjoying this, but we do need to get going. No, no, no, no, no. I'm just saying, like, one final thing.

So do you think if he just goes to the Jets, do they win the Super Bowl? Not in their first year, but they can build towards that, yes. Uh-huh, yeah, no. No, but they can build towards that. Yes. Uh-huh. Yeah. No, no. He went first year in one. Yes. And also I remember the Jets roster was terrible. So you just go to another team that didn't make the playoffs. I mean, I'm just saying they didn't exactly have any good receivers there, but you know, that's, that's all. It wouldn't be in their first year, but I think they, they could build towards one in a couple of years. Cause I still think Brady still had his physical abilities during his entire time in Tampa Bay.

I don't care what people say about his age 45 season. If you flirt with 5,000 yards, then you still have it physically. I think it was a mental thing with him. And also there were a couple other factors. Also Todd Bowles is a great coach. I mean he's okay, but – They made a – I mean, they made playoffs both his years, but I think you and I can agree.

Arians, I liked it at first. I liked the hiring at first with Todd Bowles over Arians. But then as it went on, I realized, I see why the Jets fired him. I like him as a defensive mind, but too conservative on the offensive side for my taste. But listen, if he was a Jet, since we're playing this game, if he was a Jet, they would probably barely squeak into the playoffs his first year. They would find some talent somehow, some way through trades, through free agency,

through the draft, finding a new wide receiver for him. They'd probably work on that offensive line in free agency as well. You have Brady in New York as well. So people will want to come and play with him. Therefore, it will be a much better situation there. I don't think they win in their first year,

but I think he wins a Super Bowl eventually. All I have to say is, though, one for real this time, one final thing. Baker, Mayfield, and the Bucs literally went to the playoffs in Mayfield's first year, And Mayfield is probably not even, or at least going into the year, wasn't even top 15. Probably not even top 20. He had a good year.

Yeah. But yeah, so my point is, and that still has a lot of the remnants of that roster. So do with that what you will. They do. But I also think Todd Bowles has a very simplified offensive plan. And I think Baker Mayfield

was able to work with it. And I'd argue Mayfield did that, did well in spite of it but whatever they both they it was a good season it was a good season but i was arguing i was arguing contention they were a fun team it was a good story but are we are we actually going to sit here with a straight face and say that they were winning a single but i mean i'm just saying but still i mean i'm, no, but I mean, I'm just saying, but still, I mean, I'm just, I'm not saying that, but I'm just saying when you have a quarterback as middling as Baker Mayfield go to the playoffs their first year when they were, where they easily could have been the worst team in that division. I mean, I'm just saying that saying that Matt Stafford would take him to the Super

Bowl isn't entirely out of a question. I think Matt Stafford brings him into contention the same way Brett Favre and Joe Montana and Kurt Warner do, but I think they all own the shells of themselves, but it's fair. You got to move on, I guess. You're right. All right. We're going to move on, and we'll just stay here. The Fumble Ruski fan box, Super Bowl takeaway. So we gave ours. We want to hear yours. We post a question filter on our

Instagram every Monday and you can respond with hot takes questions and more. We will respond and give you a shout out on our podcast. Shout out. Respond to next week's fan box question to be featured on our show. So, Secret Weapon Consulting said, Kelsey has roid rage. That was a very bizarre situation. I don't hold it entirely against him because we're in the heat of the moment here.

This is one thing that I will credit Andy Reid that people will hold against bill belichick if kelsey does this he gets traded then traded or cut the next off season oh absolutely bill would have benched him but for being honest bill bill he would have been out off the team whether it be this next year or the year after bill, he would have been off and they would have said next man up mentality. And as long as you have that head, that quarterback, who is Patrick Mahomes, you'll be able to do that. Maybe they would have had a couple of years of where they're kind of middling, still making the playoffs, but they would have figured it out.

Eventually they'll find a new pass catcher. Yeah, you're right. I mean, Bill Belichick has always made an example out of really good players, so Kelsey did that to him. You never know. And he had the luxury of, back in the day, of having Tom Brady. The way Andy Reid has Patrick Mahomes. So they were able to do that and get away with it. If Reid did that with Alex Smith still on the team, he would lose his job the next year. Avery Jackson said Brock really isn't as good as he was made out to be.

Nothing from this game really showed me that it was any worse than I thought he was. I think he's a really solid starting quarterback. How good he is, I don't know. But I think he's fine. I didn't see any issue. There was nothing that led me to believe that this kid can't play on the big league level. Yeah, I think he just needs to develop more too, you know? Yeah, but he also has so much talent around him. It might overshadow some of the stuff that he actually has.

But Tua does too. And he hasn't even sniffed a playoff victory yet brock purdy has made it to a conference championship last year and now a super bowl and they've had the lead several times during the super bowl so i don't know i said it was more physically gifted than purdy as well so this this doesn't say anything negative about brock purdy really no i think if again i think if they play any other team besides a team with tom brady or patrick mahomes they win the other day i do i know they made some mistakes but they were able to regain that momentum plenty of

times where the chiefs could have rolled over but patrick mahomes is that guy all right um ian mulhern's had two responses but i'm going to choose this. I'm going to choose this one. It proves Mahomes' era with quarterbacks is nowhere near as competitive as Brady's era, which kind of relates to what I just said a little bit. Yeah. Brock Purdy's good i like him i think he again he's a world champion if there if it's lamar jackson playing that's a hot take i do think that he's a world champion if lebron i get it it's it was the regular season but teams there the regular season is very different than the postseason and lamar is a very different quarterback come post season time. Um, but still like it is a little different. They have talent there. We posted a reel a few weeks ago where we said that

the talent is not near the level that it used to be. And we got crucified for it. And I don't think people understand what we were saying. We're not saying that they're not talented. These quarterbacks have amazing seasons. Josh Allen is a very good quarterback. He reminds me of a poor man's Peyton Manning. He throws a lot of interceptions, but he throws for a ton of passing yards and a ton of touchdowns to make up for it. And don't give me the weapons argument because Peyton Manning had that too. Lam jackson is the best running quarterback i've ever seen he's actually taken this team to contention which i i didn't think it would be this good same with jalen hertz he's really good joe burrow is really good what we are saying is these quarterbacks are not

the same in the postseason now you could argue mahomes is that much better, but look at the way that these guys play during the, during these postseason matchups. It's not that good. I guess Joe Burrow, I guess. Yeah, they've been close, but just because it's close doesn't mean that you're making the throws when

you need to make the throws. Yeah. You made a lot of throws. You put up some good statistics. But when you need to make the throws during the times when you needed to do it, that's what matters to me. And I don't think

these players are able to do it when it matters most. I don't think so. Don't give me the statistics argument. It's a stupid one. Stats are for losers sincerely an actual winner who was tom brady and bill balachek um all right next one was ollie simonton uh let me know about the uh pronunciation in the comment section call me an idiot if you want kyle shanahan needs

to read the rule book i'm glad this was brought up but i think this is kind of i think this was i i get it they didn't understand this part of the rules but it didn't matter in this scenario it didn't they both already had the had a possession when the 49ers took the lead. Either way, if that touchdown is scored for the chiefs, it's a, and for the chiefs, then that is, um, that's a winner. Doesn't matter either way. They all, they, the 49ers knew it. The chiefs knew it. All right. Um, here's another one. Mason Kj underscore five 49ers can't win the super bowl and they've had they've had a good chance in all of them again i put it on the quarterbacking when they were winning super bowls they had the hall of fame quarterbacks

they're going they're flirting with championships right now because they have star talent everywhere else but the quarterback position but that's what's putting these other teams over the top they don't they're a little lax lackluster in other spots but they're not winning the super bowl but like they're they are winning the super bowl that's part of what i that's part of what i look at with that um you need this you need the quarterback that's more important than being stacked everywhere else and we're seeing that time and time again mahomes and brady both showed it all right uh last one caroline brown said make sure you keep

an eye on your food so your dog doesn't get it this is more of a super bowl fan thing but um i have a dog who loves to get into food don't get distracted by the game too much if you have a dog because especially if it's a smart one who loves to take advantage of when you're distracted he's an opportunist doug is he's a little bitch man let me tell you he's he's a male but he's still a little asshole sometimes all right that's all the scheduled content for today do you have anything else before we end the show we really gotta got to wait until next September for football. That's kind of sad, actually. A little upsetting, but we'll have our content.

We'll have some good stuff coming out. Free agency, the draft, franchise tags, the combine for those of you who do like it. I mean, it's... Oh, you mean the Underwear Olympics? I don't care for it, actually. Sure. And during the summer, we have our player rankings where we rank all the players going into the season so we have lots of stuff

for you guys coming up in the meantime that'll do it for us tonight thank you for listening to us we have new episodes out on tuesdays at 7 30 p.m eastern standard time and fridays at 5 p.m eastern time be sure to subscribe to our youtube channel. We have all our episodes available on Spotify, Spreaker, Apple Podcasts, iHeartRadio, Google Podcasts, and so much more. Also, be sure to follow our Instagram at FumbleRooski underscore podcast to keep up with our podcasts and latest coverage on the NFL. Otherwise, we'll see you next week. Over and out.