The Fumblerooski Podcast - Chasing Greatness -Ep 243 The Fumblerooski Podcast

Episode Date: February 7, 2024

Where does Mahomes rank all-time if he wins or loses this Super Bowl? How do the Chiefs and 49ers offenses stack up by position? Adam Wright, CJ Medeiros, and Chris Costich debate these topics and more!

We are officially in Super Bowl week as we continue our position comparisons for this Super Bowl matchup. I'm Adam Wright, you're listening and the pass is no sign yet. Edelman comes down with a football and they're saying it's a catch. It's caught! Diggs! Sideline! Touchdown! Unbelievable!

Swings it way down the field to Watkins! Sammy Watkins! Sammy Watkins for the touchdown! Welcome to the Fumble Rooski Podcast by Power 88 and Secret Weapon Consulting. I'm Adam Wright with Chris Kosticich and cj medeiros welcome to super week super bowl week guys we are uh on to our second half of our team comparisons going on the offensive side of the ball with the positions and i also wanted to touch on this one topic which is patrick mahomes's legacy um this is being talked about a lot during Super Bowl week

and the week prior because this is Patrick Mahomes has only been in the league for six years. He's been in the conference championship in as many seasons. And he's also been to the Super Bowl in four of those. So this guy has had some pretty good success. And so I just wanted to weigh out these scenarios on how this would affect his legacy. If he wins, if he loses, I wanted to start off guys with Patrick Mahomes. So the effects on this, on his legacy, if he wins,

obviously he would shoot way up, way up on people's rankings on how great this guy is in the all-time great area, but how far up? Is he top five at this point? What do you guys think? I think it's hard to... Oh, sorry, CJ. I didn't realize you were going to go first.

I didn't. I wasn't. I saw you open your mouth up. I was like, I hope I'm not about to... No, no, no. I wasn't. I saw you open your mouth up. I was like, I hope I'm not about to go. No, no, no, no, no, no. You go first. It's hard to say that he wouldn't be top five at that rate. And he would be up there, obviously, with Aikman, Terry Bradshaw, guys that aren't considered top five.

And we're seeing Mahomes be known as the best quarterback in the game. Now, obviously if he wins, he's going to be a top five quarterback of all time at that point. And he'd be third in all-time playoff wins. And he'd have a better shot at reaching Brady's seven. Now, obviously we can't put him in that conversation of greatest of all time because Brady's the one that's got seven rings. And even if Mahomes gets to seven,

then it's going to even be hard to even put them greatest of all time anyways because Brady has those two games on. It's kind of hard to say if his legacy or if this is really the door way for him to become the greatest of all time, but it certainly would

be him being a top five quarterback of all time, especially the way that he was able to do it with not as much talent on this team yeah so for me i do believe if he does win his third super bowl not only will it put him arguably in the top five or at least it'll cement him in the top 10 but it will make him a fringe top five in my eyes but not only will do that it will make the chiefs a new dynasty you know because how many quarterbacks win three rings i mean hey peyton manning who right now was like in my opinion the third greatest quarterback of all time. He only has two.

Aaron Rodgers, who many believe is top five, only has one. And even stalwarts like Ben Roethlisberger have two. Eli Manning, we'll not consider great. He only has two. And there are some great ones like Warren Moon, Dan Marino. They never had any. So for Mahomes, when it just comes to rings, that's interesting. And people get blinded by the rings, and rightfully so, but it's stats.

Right now, statistically, it's way too early. And I'm not saying he's not going to get there. But you have to remember, when you have people like Peyton Manning, Drew Brees, and the GOAT himself, Tom Brady, statistically, that's going to be something. I mean, if he gets those stats, then we can talk. But it's just statistically it's too early. Accolade-wise, if he clinches his third Super Bowl,

then yeah, I can definitely tell you he would be top five and starting a new dynasty. That's going to help him regardless. But when it comes to matching up him with Brady, because it's like the new LeBron Jordan now, Chris mentioned it, and I think he's correct. Just remember, Mahomes has only lost three times in the playoffs. Two out of those three times have come at the hands of Tom Brady.

We all remember the 2020-2021 season, right, where it was supposed to be the big passing of the torch, where Mahomes would beat Brady and assume the new mantle is go, and Brady said, nah, he took that torch and proceeded to beat Patrick Mahomes over the head with it. And another thing with Mahomes that we have to keep in mind, and I know I'm sounding like an older football fan, but people put Brady through this litmus test, so I think it's only fair we do it to Mahomes. Mahomes will now play the majority of his career in the 17-game season, and my point is we use the 17-game season to try to discredit T.J. Watt was wrong to do but a lot of people did a lot of people use it to discredit Justin Jefferson and Tyreek Hill with their accomplishments so I think

it's only fair if we must go down that road which I don't suggest that we hold Mahomes that same standard because you know 17 but then again people say that about Brady oh he's playing 16 games a lot of people we played like 14s I I'm playing 12. But I would just say we need to move away from talks like that because the game evolves. There's different eras where it's great, but I would definitely say, just circling back here, if Mahomes does in fact get his third ring, not only does it make the Chiefs a dynasty, it would put him maybe not top five, but it would definitely cement him in the top 10. Yeah. So out of all the quarterbacks who are all-time great in our league's history, some of the most notable ones with multiple rings um at least three or more

troy acheman tom brady joe montana and terry bradshaw and there might be one other that i'm missing um but there's terry bradshaw and troy acheman who won those rings but statistically and if you also look at it in complex in weren't all that great. I mean, they were great, but they weren't Tom Brady, Joe Montana level. What Patrick Mahomes is doing is Tom Brady, Joe Montana level. It's on that level. And if he wins this one, then we can actually start mentioning him in the same breath as those other two. Now, between Brady and Montana, there's a massive gap, but you could at least start arguing Mahomes over Montana at this point,

because he's also winning MVPs. He's been in the conference championship in as many years as he's been starting in the league, and he's won three championships with however long that he has left to win his fourth. I mean, that has to put you in that conversation with Joe Montana. As far as statistics go, I agree with CJ, not just because it's early, but because of how he started his career off. Let's not forget, the Chiefs, before Patrick Mahomes took over as the starting quarterback, they had Alex Smith, who is an okay starter. He's a guy who can make the playoffs every now and then.

They were making the playoffs almost every year. I'm pretty sure the only time they missed since 2013 was 2014. But they made the playoffs almost every year with Alex Smith because they had a very good roster and a very good head coach and Andy Reed. But when you start off your, when you start off your career with Tyree kill and Travis Kelsey, then of course you're going to have these inflated statistics, especially when you have a really good offensive line,

a very good offensive minded head coach, a great offensive minded offensive coordinator in Eric Biennemi, I mean, of course you're going to put up great statistics. Not to take away from Patrick Mahomes, but he had a pretty good situation to start off with. Now, it's starting to taper off a little bit, and he's still playing well, which is why we still have him in this all-time great category if he wins. But I don't think it's going to continue this way where he's putting up 50, 50, 40 to 50 touchdown seasons. That's just not sustainable. It was never

sustainable for Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Joe Montana, Aaron Rodgers, they all had down years because the roster, there's so many moving parts that it's just not in your control, right? So that's the reason I'm hesitant to use statistics as an argument, not just because it's early, because he started off his career with one of the better rosters you will ever see. And Tom Brady didn't have that, at least on the offensive side. On defense, they had some good pieces. They had a great defensive-minded head coach, so they were a little more geared towards defense. And then once they started moving towards vertical offenses with Randy Moss, Wes Welker, you had Deion Branch a few years later on you had rob gronkowski then you started they

you started seeing more offense from brady um but with patrick mahomes he started off the opposite he started off with the more vertical uh the more vertical the more vertically structured offenses uh the great weapons the great offensive line and that's what that's what he started off with but so it's different in that way and i think that's something that people don't understand is that yeah like you're starting off with these great statistics but you don't exact like that's of course it'd be a problem if you weren't putting up great statistics with this with these weapons and he was so we're not going to hold him against that but um you also can't ignore it and i think it's starting it's going to start to taper off let me give you another angle to this so we'll

we'll and then we'll segue into um if he loses this game if they they win, so Andy Reid's getting older, and rumors are starting to circulate that he's retiring. Travis Kelsey, he's 34, going on 35, as a tight end. That's a position that doesn't have the best shelf life. And on top of that, you've shipped out your all- wide receiver and tyree kill you replace him with rishi rice who's okay he's not a wide receiver one at least not at this point maybe he develops into it i was just about to say maybe i think on the in the recent weeks he has developed into a player that could potentially be a wide receiver one. He could, he could, all I'm saying is they don't have much to work with.

And with that massive top in with that massive Patrick Mahomes deal, um, they, they, that cupboard could go bare real quick and it wouldn't be in Tom Britt. And it wouldn't be in Patrick Mahomes is control that this happens, but they, that offense could go real, real cold for a few years. And there was, with Tom Brady, he had this issue too.

There was a 10-year gap between championship three and championship four. We see a gap coming up soon. Now, we don't want to compare because it's two different situations, but they were winning on offensive firepower. Now that's starting to taper off. The defense is getting better, but is it going to be good enough for them to carry to some championships? I think that's something to worry about there

because if we're talking about his legacy as a whole, will he be able to win more championships like this i don't know um i don't so all right what do we think if he loses if he loses the super bowl that means you're two and two in super bowls yes you made it to six straight but keep in mind i just how i just mentioned um and. Andy Reid could be retiring in a couple years. If not this year, it will be coming soon because he's 65. Travis Kelsey's getting older. He's going to be 35 next year.

Tyree Kill's out of town. We don't know which Rasheed Rice is yet, and their offensive line is okay, but how long is that going to last? What do you guys think? I feel like it's going to depend on how he plays in this super bowl that could if they lose but i don't know it everyone knows that this really isn't that great of a team but when you look at in the sense of like Brady's first three Super Bowls and how, like you said, it wasn't the greatest offense in the world and it was put on by great defense. And that's kind of what the Patriots have for those first three Super Bowls was really good defense.

And now here the Chiefs are with a good defense and not as good of an offense as it used to be. If Mahomes can't find a way to do that, then everyone's going to start comparing the two again. And that's going to be what degrades Mahomes' legacy at that rate. Because Mahomes is now put in a spot or a similar spot to Brady, and he's not getting it done. I don't know. It's tough because if you weren't doing the Mahomes-Brady comparison like everyone is doing, then you could just sweep it under the rug and say, you know what, this was down here for Mahomes.

The offense wasn't really good. You know, this is a great run that they had, but all great things come to an end. But because of the comparisons, it's not going to be met like that. Yeah. CJ? I don't think it's going to be the end of the world if he loses. Because, you know, going to four Super Bowls and winning two

would put you on the same Super Bowl record as Peyton Manning. You know, Peyton Manning is a Hall of Famer. And eventually, as he progresses, he'll have his stats to fall on. But making these Super Bowls and then losing them, I mean, I know he's made more than the person I'm about to mention, but you don't want to peak too early. And this might be a bit of a hot take, but I think that's exactly what happened to Aaron Rodgers. Now, granted, Rodgers didn't make all the Super Bowls that Mahomes has, but early in his career, you know, like what was it, a second or third season,

you know, as a starter, I mean, he comes out, he makes one, upsets Pittsburgh, and, you know like what was it a second or third season you know as a starter i mean he comes out he makes one upsets pittsburgh and you know then he's racking up mvps but notice he keeps reeling in accolades he keeps stuffing the stat sheet but the rings kept eluding him he made it to four straight championship games and you know got bounced out and that's us and a lot of it is because i think he peaked too early and for mahomes you do not want to peak too early and that's something that i also think falls on the front office you can't let that happen because you're right andy reed is not getting any younger travis kelsey grant he's it's a miracle he's last as long as he did because he's one of the softer tight ends in the league.

Because he's not a great route runner. He doesn't get physical. He doesn't block. He's more prone to throw out a sarcastic tweet than a punch in a fight. So let's be honest with ourselves there. And you don't know what Rasheed Rice is going to be. The defense is good. But I don't know what Rasheed Rice is going to be. The defense is good, but I don't know if you know this.

Chris Jones, you know, your best defender, he's going to need a new contract soon, and I don't really believe Kansas City can afford it. So I guess that's it. So if you lose the Super Bowl, it's not going to be the end of the world, but you need just an insurance plan basically you know what i mean you don't want to peak too soon and to be fair i mean look at brady's first super bowl he won he wasn't the focal point that defense as you mentioned was elite with two future hall of famers there so basically you have to like start retooling the lineup because we mentioned

how some quarterbacks, and this is my final point, how some quarterbacks, you know, suffer when they don't have weapons around them. If Mahomes loses the Super Bowl, it will show that not even he is immune to it. Maybe it's a sign of the time, the times, maybe it's not, but it will be something to consider that you, he need, he would need to have some more weapons other than Rasheed Rice and old man Travis Kelsey. I don't think you would think that also – I don't think you – I'm sorry. I don't think it would be the end of the world for his legacy,

but I definitely think you would hurt it a little bit. Because at that point, he lost a couple Super Bowls. What's up? Sorry, I don't mean to keep cutting in. My Wi-Fi keeps glitching out. So every time there's a pause, I keep trying to butt in. But what I was saying, though, was it kind of goes back to what I was just saying, though. Even with all the bad weapons, it could also depend on how he plays in general.

If he has a bad game, then everyone's going to be really dogging on him. But if he has a really good game, then no, they won't blame him. No, because when Mahomes put up that stinker against Tampa Bay, everybody was so quick to defend him that it's, you know, that it's just not his fault and the offense and the team around him just faltered and i see no reason to believe that it will not be different this time what do you think of the offensive line though uh i think their offensive line is pretty good aside from left tackle no i mean in that game in that game and not not. Do you not remember Mahomes running for his life every play?

Okay, but is that really because the Tampa Bay offense was that bad? Or are you just underselling the Tampa Bay defense? Because Tampa Bay defense, I remember, was pretty good. It was top 10, but it wasn't the Chicago. It wasn't the 85 Bears, and it certainly wasn't the 15 Broncos. Oh, yeah, of course. It's a ridiculous comparison. But it wasn't a great defense.

It wasn't top five in the league during that year. Okay, yeah, but it was still, you said it yourself, it was still top ten. It still had Devin White, still had Levante David, still had Vita Vea, still had Shaq Barrett. And it still had Carlton Davis, Sean Murphy Bunting, Antoine Winfield, and Jordan Whitehead. Right. A defense that ranked in the top third of the league. Is that one that should be violating offensive lines and having the best quarterback in the game running for its life?

I think it was just a bad i to be my my my my honest analysis is on this game was that uh it was just a bad game by by the offensive line i mean it really was i guess like if the player is running for his life that's not on the offensive line he's he's trying not to take a sack how many did he did he take in that game one two three two three considering how bad that offensive line performance was that's not that bad all right yeah so the offensive line made him throw two picks the offensive line made him throw ill-advised balls into double coverage the offensive line was responsible for travis kelsey you know disappearing well if you're rushing to making throws then you have to do that i mean you have to have the stuff that he was doing was he was almost going to the ground and on top of that they were missing their their left tackle and uh uh jeff fisher uh eric fisher yeah eric fisher jesus

christ yeah i know i know i know but i'm just saying though it's like mahomes could could have no touchdown passes like 150 yards and three picks and my point is it doesn't matter how good he is because people sort of say no it's not his fault i i agree you you can give some blame but at the same time it is a team sport i know it's i know I am in the front of the line. I am leading the charge, always saying it's a quarterback-driven game, but you also have to give a little bit to the rest of the roster. There's a reason why tackles are so highly paid. There's a reason why wide receivers are paid a lot, right?

And there's a reason why pass rushers are paid a lot because there's a lot more to the game than just the quarterback. There's coaching as well that's and there's a reason why pass rushers are paid a lot because there's a lot more to the game than just the quarterback there's coaching i mean i know and it's not an issue with you or your stance it's just an issue of i think comes down to the nfl media in general because if he wins they'll be like oh there's nothing he can't do this is him just willing this team and then i'll just be like no nope sorry no if he loses then i'll be like no it's his team's fault like two things can't be true at once here well people do that for brady too i mean yeah i know and brady does more with less than it's always that he's doing more with

less you'll hear it from the patriots fans oh yeah as soon as he loses it's on the rest of the team which is i mean it is fair if you say because he was due there wasn't high expectations for it to begin with so if you're so it's all to gain and not much to lose if you're doing something with a less than satisfactory roster you had juju smith schuster as your wide receiver one last year. If they lost that Super Bowl, I'd still be pretty impressed. Even if they just lost in the conference championship to the Bengals, I'd say, you know what? He was a league MVP. He made it to the conference championship with a less than satisfactory team. Obviously the season's a letdown, but he did more than what we expected with it. All right.

So I do want to give my take on this because I haven't, I didn't get my turn yet. Yeah, Mr. Yeah. Well, we were going, we were going back and forth on your take,

which is okay. I forgive you. I don't think this hurts his legacy. Well, I think it does a little bit. But, like I alluded to before, I think my biggest concern is the Chiefs' entire outlook looking forward. Travis Kelsey, like I said, is getting older. Andy Reid is looking closer and closer to retirement.

So with those things in mind, and they also lost, I mean, Eric Biennemi is gone. Although he is a free agent now. But if they lose this one, I think Patrick Mahomes is in that one era in his career where he's making Superbowls left and right. He's Tom Brady in the early two thousands and the 2010s right now. So once that is over, you're going to get to a point where you may like, we can't actually expect for Patrick Mahomes to be in every single Super Bowl. So the window that he has right now, he needs to maximize it. Maybe there will be a time later in his career, like Tom Brady in the 2010s, where he ends up picking it up again and they start winning Super Bowls again.

But be happy with what you have right now, because you don't know what you have until it's gone. And Travis Kelsey's getting older his favorite toy his safety blanket is going to be retiring in a couple of years or if he doesn't then he will not look like the elite tight end that he has been for the entirety of his career right jason winton eventually tapered off Rob Gronkowski eventually slowed down. Why would we look at it differently with Travis Kelsey? They all eventually slow down. Father Time always wins.

And Andy Reid, I don't think he's retiring this year, but I think there's some truth to his rumors that it could be out just around the corner. So yeah, if they win this game, it's a dynasty. And I think if he loses it, it's not the end of the world because he could still, he still has the rest of his career to win more, but don't take this Superbowl for granted. That's all I'm saying, because you never know if this one could be your last. That's what I would say about this. Because this was, like I said, he inherited a great, a great system around him. A very good scenario with lots of good weapons and a great coach, a very good defense, good offensive line. It's not going to last forever, one way or another.

It's not going to be this way his entire career. So don't take it for granted, I would say. All right. We're going to move on, and we're going to get to our team comparisons in this matchup. We're going to rank every position and compare head to head between the 49ers and the Chiefs, which one has the better at each position. We're on the offensive side of the ball. So this is going to be, a few of them are a little more on the one-sided side because the 49ers have a lot of firepower, but you'd be surprised at how many of the

Chiefs actually have an advantage at. That's next. This is the Fumble Rooski Podcast. Broken up and the pass is no sign yet. Edelman comes down with a football. They're saying it's a catch. It's caught. Gets. Side-eyed. Touchdown. Unbelievable.

Swings it way down the field to Watkins. Sammy Watkins for the touchdown! Welcome back to the Fumble Rooski Podcast by Power 88 and Secret Weapon Consulting. I'm Adam Wright with Chris Kostic and CJ Medeiros. We have reached our team comparisons between both teams in the Super Bowl 58 matchup. We're going to hit the ground running with team comparisons with the quarterback position. This is an easy one.

I think we all know who has the advantage here, unless Brock Purdy ends up going on a run after this Super Bowl and he turns into the actual next Tom Brady. But for now, Patrick Mahomes, it's not close. And right now he is chasing some of the all-time, like we said last segment, he is chasing some of the all-time greats with this Super Bowl if he wins. Offensive line. This is an interesting one. So I,

because the 49ers have the best position player, they have, the 49ers have the best player on this offensive line between both, between both teams. So I think they have the advantage in the tackle position, but on the interior, it's a little bit closer than you might think. And I know CJ alluded to this last episode, but you want to elaborate? Yeah, sure. So while we all agree that Mahomes is much better than Brock Purdy for quarterback, we do have to look at the people that they are surrounded by. Now, Brock Purdy has the best left tackle in the game, Trent Williams. There's no denying that.

But the rest of the O-line? Oh, I won't lie to you. I'm not a fan. But then there's the Chiefs. The Chiefs probably have the best interior three in the NFL. Actually, no. The Chiefs probably have the best interior three in the NFL. Actually, no, because they're maybe not. I'm kind of on the fence right now.

My position is moderated because for those who don't know, today it has been confirmed that it is a, and I quote, long shot that Pro Bowl guard Joe Tooney actually plays. So that's going to be an issue and an end. However, without him, they still have Creed Humphrey, and they still have Trey Smith, and they still have Donovan Smith. And that's a pretty good from the center to the right sides. That's good. However, who's going to be your left guard?

Not Tooney. however you who's going to be your left guard not toony but which brings me to left tackle where they have mr false start himself jawan taylor the most penalized player in the league they won't call them by the way oh no no no they won't call them they're gonna get taylor swift for super bowl this is just how the world works these days. But that's neither here nor there. So, Adam, without Joe Tooney and with the gravity that surrounds the name Trent Williams, I don't know. For me, it's kind of a draw. But when you consider how officially now, Jawan Taylor by himself, I can forgive. I can. But now without Tooney, the left side

of that line is a black hole. It may as well not exist. And when we take this into consideration, now I have to lean San Fran. Because like I said, Trent Williams is like a one-man wrecking crew by

himself. And without a piece of their O-line, and when you consider the fact that Jawan Taylor is a negative, I actually have to go San Fran. I would tilt Kansas City if Tooney was healthy, but he is not. Yeah, and looking at that pass rush for San Francisco, that is going to be a nightmare. You know it.

That is going to be a huge problem. Nick Bosa against that chiefs this is why i think the tackle was the tackle position is the most important position in this matchup because nick bosa against those tackles and then chris jones against that offensive line for the 49ers, I just don't see it. All right. Chris, did you have anything to add? Not really.

I mean, like CJ said, for me, I mean, I would have gone 49ers regardless of Joe Tooney was out or not. But with Joe Tooney being out, it's definitely by unanimous decision, it's 49ers at that point. Yeah, you got Chris Jones on the D line. That's going to cause some havoc on the interior for Chiefs O line, or I mean a Niners O line. But when you got both Chase Young and Nick Bosa coming in on both ends and you don't have a great left tackle as it is, you can only double team one of them.

You got to pick and choose at that point. Yeah. All right. Wide receiver. So this is another one that's pretty much – we all know which side this is going to lean. We've got on the Niners side, Debo Samuel and Brandon Ayuk. What more do I have to say?

I don't even have to name their secondary options there. But I do need to give an honorable mention to Rasheed Rice. I think we've been very unfair to Rasheed Rice. Everyone has this year. When everyone mentions the Chiefs wide receiving core, it's usually the butt of all jokes. It's always the punchline. And Rasheed Rice has actually been okay. He's had a good rookie year. I don't know how good he will be. Maybe he develops into a wide receiver one. Maybe he's just a two. I mean, we had some good excitement for Juju Smith Schuster when he first entered the league. And then when Antonio Brown left, it all went down the crapshoot.

Because it turns out, when you have an elite pass catcher lined up opposite you, Jesus Christ, I made a new word, lined up opposite you, that's going to take some defensive attention away from you. And that is going to cause for you to be open a lot more often. That happened to Juju once Antonio Brown left. When Travis Kelsey ages and defenses stop respecting him, how is that going to affect Rasheed Rice? It's just a question that I have there.

CJ, you're muted well don't mute me and that won't happen however i will concede your mic that's why yeah well you know well i don't know take a salt tablet it'll that'll make it better anyway so i will concede though that for the 49ers i guess you could argue that cadarious tony's a weapon for them considering the fact he's that much of a hindrance to the chiefs and you know i'm right yeah well yeah cadarious tony they may not even use him. I mean, if what Toney is saying on his live stream is correct, they're not going to use him. Nor should they. Nor should they, but it looks bad there.

All right. Running back. This one, another one where I think we all know who has the advantage here. Christian McCaffrey is a legitimate contender for offensive player of the year. He might win that award, but let's not disrespect Isaiah Pacheco because that kid, I love the memes that come out from him.

Someone said he runs like he bites people or that he, he runs like he walks up the stairs on all fours yes i don't know it's like he runs like a zombie runs like he hates the ground he's a kid i mean that's how you're supposed to run the damn ball though he runs with high knees that's what they teach you from flag football on that's that's how you run the damn ball i i love it that he's my favorite running back right now because of the way he runs and how hard he runs. He runs like his life depends on it. Right. And Isaiah Pacheco, like

Christian McCaffrey has the advantage here. But again, Isaiah Pacheco is a pretty good back. And didn't he start off, correct me if I'm wrong, but did he start off in the league as a wide receiver and then was kind of morphed into a running back? I'm not sure. I just know that he was behind Edwards Hilaire to start the season last year and then stole the starting spot. Yes.

And while we're on the subject of running backs i feel like the niners guy mitchell deserves a little bit of respect too yeah obviously pacheco is great but you have behind christian mccaffrey you've bargained being christian mccaffrey as well but they don't but they literally just you know don't use him because you have christian mccaffrey but he's good he's also an ir for half the season as well yeah but he's back now yeah and we'll see yeah so he added so this year i mean because he's been hurt for a while the stats don't mean too much but 281 yards two touchdowns he did average 3.7 yards a carry so under four i guess you have to kind of when when a player's coming

off ir you kind of have to give it the eye test rather than um rather than look at the statistics because there's a lot of factors that play into it they're working their way back into things he might be a lot better than when he looked at than what he looked like when he first um when he first came off ir but tight end we saved the best one for last. This is an ongoing debate. Travis Kelsey has the longevity, and he has the statistics. But when you look at the eye test, George Kittle, he is a much more physical tight end.

That's number one. Number two, he actually blocks. Travis Kelsey. So here's why I'm very hesitant to consider Travis Kelsey the greatest tight end of all time. Statistically, he's there. But as an all-around tight end, if we were to call Travis Kelsey the greatest tight end of all time

why wouldn't we just why can't we just move davante adams to tight end and just call him the greatest of all time he's a wide receiver who's playing the tight end position they don't have him blocking now he's a he plays the wide receiver position very well when he's running his routes, but he doesn't block. And that's something that's important to being a tight end. He has this career longevity because he doesn't block. He doesn't play that physical of ball. And that's something that's important. And it's a reason why tight ends typically do not age that well. It's the reason why Rob Gronkowski was injured half the time. It's the reason why tight ends typically do not age that well. It's the reason why Rob Gronkowski was injured half the time. It's the reason why George Kittle is injured all the time. It's the reason

why Darren Waller snapped like a twig after a few years. The tight end position is a very expendable position. It doesn't last very long. And the reason why Travis Kelsey has lasted as long as he has is because he's used primarily as a wide receiver. He's labeled as a tight end, but let's not kid ourselves. He's a pass catcher playing the tight end position. So that's something that I always consider when I am looking at Travis Kelsey as one of the greatest of all time.

He certainly is, but you can't ignore the fact that they don't have him blocking like ever. But George Kittle does. And George Kittle plays a – he actually looks like a tight end out there. He plays a very physical game. He's very hard to bring down. It kind of reminds me of Rom Gronkowski, the way he runs the ball once he catches it. It's unbelievable. What do you guys think?

Chris, you go. Yeah, it's, you know, when you watch the Chiefs games, who do you see out there when they run the ball? It's Noah Gray and Blake Bell. You will not know who the hell Noah Gray and Blake Bell were. Noah Gray, shout out Lemster. Lemster legend. But you want to know those two guys were if Travis Kelsey played every single down and he was in there for all the run plays.

So there's that. I mean, I'm still going to probably give the edge to Kelsey because, yeah, George Kittle brings more to the table in terms of run blocking and whatnot. But when it comes down to how much one guy is going to be relied on, Travis Kelsey is going to be relied on a lot in this game. So part of me is going to go to Travis Kelsey because, yeah, George Kittle is, like I said, great run blocker, great pass catcher.

But when you look at the rest of the 49ers roster, he isn't the number one target. Travis Kelsey on the Chiefs, they're going to be looking to go to him all the time. George Kittle, they don't need to go to him all the time. So Travis Kelsey is just going to be relied on so much him all the time george kill they don't need to go to him all the time so travis kelsey's just going to be relied on so much that he's definitely going to be more of a factor than say george kill in that sense yeah no i hear you i hear you however i'm not i'm not trying to say what

one's better than the other i'm just saying in the sense of how both teams stack up one is going to have to be relied on more than the other no no you're right you're right but see here's the thing travis kelsey as he knows a good crutch for my homes there's no denying that however my homes is force feeding him it's artificially inflating his numbers meanwhile now by the way he has 93 catches he has 984 yards of five touchdowns that's great it's the number one option but george kittle is option one sometimes i mean usually option two sometimes option three and he only has 65 catches because he's not getting force fed however he cracked over a thousand yards and he has one

more touchdown than kelsey so the fact that he's putting up arguably better numbers you know he's doing more with less while not being the number one option i think this season makes him better all time no debate obviously kelsey but just this season statistically what they're asked to do and the fact that he's not soft and the fact that he goes he blocks his route running is better his football iq is better his hands are better you have to tilt towards kittle and travis kelsey certainly isn't travis kelsey certainly isn't he's not soft either it's just that they don't use him like a tight end they don't he's used as a wide receiver that was the next point I was going to say, too. When you look at split stats between these two,

George Kittle is way more consistent than what Travis Kelsey was this season. But that's the issue. Because George Kittle is an actual tight end, because he actually plays the game like a tight end, he gets injured more. Exactly. That's why Travis Kelsey has the greater longevity. That's still, it's still important that he was able to play this long, but you have to understand when you're comparing players as a tight end, you have to look at Travis Kelsey's

blocking ability. Now they don't use him to block very often. So you can't necessarily hold it against him, but you can't use it as a plus either what's that and when they do i've seen him get blown by and it's not even that he can't block by the way it's that he refuses to he takes plays off kittle doesn't right so one is so just one is more physical than the other and travis kelsey's still important to this chiefs team there There's no denying that without Travis Kelsey, they don't wait, they don't reach the super bowl. Um, and they may not even make the conference championship without Travis Kelsey. But if we're, like I said, if we're comparing tight ends, tight ends, not pass catchers, not just stats statistics, Travis Kelsey blows them out of the water. Who's the better tight end?

It's George Kittle who's the better tight end. Travis Kelsey's the more impactful player, and he's the better statistical pass catcher. He's the better overall pass catcher. George Kittle is the better tight end. That's what we're saying. All right. That's about all the scheduled content for today.

What do you guys think? Anything else to talk about? No, no. We can talk about the Pro Bowl. No, we could talk about how useless it is. Yeah, we could talk about it. And we could also talk about watching paint dry. No, one of my favorite skill competitions from this past weekend

was Justin Tucker and what's-his-face from the Cowboys. I can't think of his name. Brandon Aubrey. Thank you. Tucker and Brandon Aubrey having that tic-tac-toe kicking competition. I forgot about that. I'm so glad they brought that back. It's so ridiculous seeing how accurate these guys are

in playing tic-tac-toe on field goals. They call it tic-tac-toe, and it's awesome. Yeah. I really wish Justin Tucker got the better of that matchup. The fact that he got bullied during the preseason of that game in the conference championship. And then. Yeah,

it's ridiculous, but it's weird. You know, the flag football game, you think it'd be worse, but it's almost like the players were trying more than they were with the actual pads on. Like it's, they're actually trying out there.

Everyone actually gives a damn. Everyone's out there arguing with the referees and whatnot. CJ Stroud's making plays like he would in an actual game. It's pretty, are we hyping up? Are we hyping up now? I'm not trying to hype up the pro bowl but in the sense of how competitive it actually was and how much the players actually give a damn about the flag football game compared to the actual game in years past well yeah because they don't have to

go full force and they won't get hurt all right right. We do have to end the show tonight, but listen, there's a lot of ways they can make the pro bowl very much more entertaining, but they just refuse to do it. They don't, they want to, they want it to be like the all-star game in the MLB,

in the NBA, where they have a game. They should make it some sort of an Olympics and have a draft for it. That would be fun. All right. That'll do it for us tonight. Thank you for listening to us. We have new episodes out on Tuesdays at 7 30 PM Eastern standard time and five at five o'clock Eastern standard time on Fridays. Be sure to subscribe

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