The Fumblerooski Podcast - Pick your Poison -Ep 21 the Fumblerooski Podcast

Episode Date: April 28, 2021

Former Baltimore Ravens LT Orlando Brown has been traded to the Kansas City Chiefs in a blockbuster trade. The 49ers have reportedly narrowed their options to two players and are now deciding between QB's Mac Jones and Trey Lance to take with the 3rd pick of the NFL Draft. We also discuss Baker Mayfield and the Browns with a special guest, personal friend, and die-hard Baker Mayfield fan, Cameron Alden.

Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. And Justin, I'm going to need a little reminder here. What are we listening to right now? We're listening to the lacrosse team outside. The lacrosse team outside. It is time for the Fumble Rooski podcast by Power 88 Dean Radio. So buckle up. We're in for a wild ride.

We have a lot going on right now. The draft is just in two days. Actually, when you guys receive this podcast, when it's published, it will have been, it's the day before the draft. So that's coming up. That's going to be very exciting. We still have a lot to go over for that. We have a trade between the Ravens and the Chiefs that we need to go over. That's a big trade for the AFC.

But first, we need to go over. That's a big trade for the AFC. But first, we have a special guest. We have our personal friend, Cameron Alden. Cameron, I understand you are a senior. You go to school with us at Dean College. You're going to graduate in a couple weeks. How does that feel? It was crazy, to be honest. Like you said, I just walked on campus for the first time.

So you feel like you were just here a couple weeks ago, like you just got here. Yeah, it does. Time flies, man. So Cameron, do you want to tell the people a little bit about yourself? I mean, I think you did a pretty good job. I'm a senior. I know you guys. Big Mayfield guy. I'm sure we'll get into that. There's what I wanted to hear. This guy is one of the biggest Baker Mayfield fans you will ever meet in your life you know i gotta say i'm not big i'm not much i'm not huge on baker but like if you were going to represent baker mayfield there's nobody who does it better than cameron alden right here die hard baker mayfield fan i'm sure you i'm sure you like

the browns if you like baker mayfield right correct i mean now i do no one like the Browns if you like Baker Mayfield, right? Correct? I mean, now I do. No one liked the Browns the last 20 years. It's not a kid of yourself. It's not like nobody liked them. It's just they were terrible. They blow. All right. So we're going to get right into it.

So to go more in depth of this trade between the Ravens and the Chiefs. So the Chiefs have needed some offensive line help for the past, over the entire offseason. After the Super Bowl, they cut both their tackles and they lost their center as well. They wound up replacing their center with a guy who just came out of retirement to come play for them uh they still don't have a right tackle but they got their left tackle now in orlando brown so they made a trade a couple of days ago with the or the baltimore ravens uh they gave up their 2021 first round pick a third rounder fourth rounder and another late round uh fifth round pick uh in risk in uh in exchange so the chiefs receive a uh they obviously they receive orlando brown and they get a 2021 second round pick and an additional late round pick uh now the chiefs

get exactly what they need they had they need. They needed a lot of help at the tackle position. So now, for both of these sides, I'll start with you, Justin, the Ravens fan. How do you see this trade for working out for both, for each side? Well, as far as the Ravens side is concerned, we knew this day was coming. It had to happen eventually before the draft came up because Orlando Brown Jr. made it very clear that all he wants to do is play left tackle for personal reasons. And since we signed Ron Stanley to that big contract, he realized that that wasn't going to happen. So he asked for a trade.

So it was only a matter of time before it happened. And it kind of put us into a bind of like, we can't get like the proper value for him. So we had to like scavenge and find somebody that was willing to take him plus give us adequate cap or draft value for him. And unfortunately we landed on the chiefs, but I think we got some pretty good, decent picks and draft for him. We got a first-round pick this year

and a couple of other picks that we can use in the draft. I believe we'll use one of those picks to get a pass rusher because we always do that, but I think hopefully we use our first-round pick for a – or one of our two first-round picks on a wide receiver. I think the Chiefs get better because they finally have some – they got a – I think they got better on the O-line this season. I think all in all, they started off horrendous after the 2020 season

and then somehow got better. So I think this addition for Orlando Brown helps both the Chiefs and the Ravens in different ways. Absolutely. I think this helps both teams. They did have to give up a 2021 second-round pick, so they gave up their second-rounder as well as Orlando Brown. But they do get a first-round pick out of it and a third-rounder. So they gave up their second rounder as well as Orlando Brown.

But they do get a first round pick out of it and a third rounder. So it, I mean, it seems pretty even. But Cameron, what do you think about it? I think we're already seeing the beginning of the end for the Chiefs. I think Mahomes will always keep them in contention. But I think they looked fatigued. They looked almost boring in the Super Bowl. They didn't have anything new. And it seems like the game plan has kind of been found out on the Chiefs.

Their O-line was never good last year. And that got exposed in the Super Bowl. It's a very bold move to replace the whole entire thing. And we'll see how long it takes Mahomes to really mesh with them. As for the Ravens, I don't see what the O-line matters. I mean, Lamar Jackson's not in the pocket anyways. I mean, the left tackle is pretty vital to that. I mean, considering that's his blind side,

but, I mean, Thurney's good enough to replace him. So I think the trade was made to be bigger than it was. Okay. So I thought coming into this offseason, I would have completely agreed. I think this is the beginning of the end for those championship contending Chiefs teams where Mahomes is basically just a game glitch in Madden. And he's just slinging it all over the field, and he just can't seem to do wrong. And I think, I thought Super Bowl 59 was going to, I thought Super Bowl 59 was going to, I thought that was a good indicator of

what, maybe a little bit of foreshadowing of what's going to come. But after this trade – so after this trade, honestly, they might be Super Bowl contenders again. They may not win it because I think the issue is like there's just some sort of a curse or some sort of mental factor that plays into losing a Super Bowl because teams who lose a Super Bowl just don't go back and win it again. I think it's happened about two or three times in Super Bowl history, and teams have only gone back about seven, eight times. So it's extremely rare. But I think this move makes them Super Bowl contenders again.

And if they don't win it next year, they could very well be in the mix again the year after that. See, this is what it's going to come down to in the next decade or so with Patrick Mahomes' contract and all the contracts of all these other players is that they're going to have to – it's going to come down to how they manage their money. It will come down to how they draft and how they – if they're able to pull moves like this to sort of remain in contention, kind of stay in the mix. That's the way the Patriots did it. That's how they were able to stay in contention for a very long time. They were smart. And if the Chiefs are going to remain sort of a dynasty, if you will, that's exactly how the Chiefs are going to have to do it.

This is the type of move that you make for sustained success. I don't think it puts them back in a Super Bowl. I mean, they're obviously going to be Super Bowl contenders when they have Mahomes. But their D-line is their biggest problem because everyone knows the way you beat Mahomes is you run the ball, keep them off the field.

And they can't stop the run. Down the stretch, they got a little better, but then they seemed to collapse again in the playoffs where they were in these wild games. You just couldn't stop the run. Down the stretch, they got a little better, but then they seemed to collapse again in the playoffs where they were in these wild games. They just couldn't stop the run. Are you forgetting they have Chris Jones? You mean the dude that goes off sides every time there's a big play coming up? Oh, my God.

I think you're thinking of Justin Houston, aren't you? Wasn't it Chris Jones who did against New England? And he also did with Super Bowl? I'm thinking of the other guy. Who is it? Who jumped off sides during the NFC Championship? Dee Ford. Dee Ford.

I think you're thinking of him. He's been on the 49ers. Chris Jones is the guy. He's a run-stuffer. I'm pretty sure Chris Jones went off sides on a big third down in the Super Bowl. I mean, there's no such thing as a big player in that Super Bowl. That Super Bowl was a blowout from the start, to be honest.

It really was no competition. But I'll take your word for it. I mean, let's be honest. That Super Bowl was not competitive. It was competitive in the beginning. Maybe a little bit, but just think about it. They didn't score a touchdown. It was all field goals.

And Patrick Mahomes was running for his life for the entire time. But if you look at the first quarter, it didn't feel like that. It felt like they were moving the ball down the field, and they just got stopped and were settling for field goals. And then all of a sudden, the second half came back. They made no adjustments, and that's the way it was. Are we going to do any draft talk? Yeah, we will. We're going to do that in just

a minute. I guess we can do that now if you really want it. We can get to some of was like, all right, well. All right. We can get to some of your thoughts. But first, the 49ers, according to Ian Rappaport and several other sources, it turns out they have narrowed their quarterback room to Mac Jones and Trey Lance. So no Justin Fields to be seen here. No Trevor Lawrence or Zach Wilson, obviously, because they're most likely going one and two.

However, there's no Justin Fields to be seen here. But the big choice is between Mack Jones and Trey Lance. Now, ever since they've made this trade, there's been a long debate. Justin, you and I have been going back and forth debating and kind of speculating on who they're going to draft. It's been a very long few weeks since this trade has happened, and it still baffles me how we really just don't know who they're going to take. And it baffles me that Mac Jones is an option. I get it. There's been some players who have succeeded under Mac Jones' play style.

But you have to be extremely intelligent to be able to do it, to kind of just sit that back there in the pocket, not quite mobile, not exactly Aaron Rodgers or Patrick Mahomes, but you have to be able to just sit back there and just read defenses, be able to pick teams apart. So I'm going to ask one last time before draft day when the truth comes out and when Roger Goodell calls the name of the player the 49ers are drafting, but who are the 49ers taking with the third pick in the 2021 NFL draft? That is the question of the day. I,

for some reason, I believe it's going to be Mac Jones at the end of the day, because I think he fits what they look in a quarterback. And all he has to do is just fill in the system and make throws that Jimmy G for some reason or not seemingly can't make, and then run the offense the way they want it to run. So as long as he can do that, he can be the franchise quarterback of the 49ers. But I will say that they need to stop looking for that mold of quarterback because Justin Fields is a better quarterback than Mack Jones and Trey Lance. But for some reason,

this guy keeps dropping and I don't quite understand why. I believe he is the second best quarterback in the draft. It's like a hair above Zach Wilson, but I still believe he's better than Zach Wilson. You think he's better than Zach Wilson? Yes, I think he's better than Zach Wilson. Wow. Yes, I don't think – I agree with that 100%. I really do believe –

Zach Wilson, I think, is one of the most overrated prospects in the last couple of years. See, I look at the college that Justin Fields goes to, and now I want to believe that he's going to be this great player. Everybody compares him to Deshaun Watson. However, the issue is he goes to ohio state how many players how many quarterbacks have come out of ohio state to actually be good on the flip side of that who did zach wilson beat exactly that person beat nobody's all year and when he went up against the undefeated in Coastal Carolina, he lost.

So it's like it's not really – it's like not SEC-worthy talent like Mack Jones or ACC talent like Clemson or the national playoffs like Justin Fields and Trevor Lawrence. So I'm like who does that – his competition isn't the same as like every other quarterback except like Trey Lance. Well, I don't think you can hold it Lance. I don't think you can hold it against Zach Wilson for beating teams that he should be beating.

If he's beating the teams he needs to beat, then there you go. I understand that, but the teams he should be beating are not NFL caliber teams. Okay. He's not an NFL player. He's still beating. Wouldn't it be more of a problem if he wasn't beating him?

Well, the problem is, I think Zach Wilson's overrated considering he's going to the Jets. Oh, he's not them. It's the Jets. It's the Jets now. Okay. Like, if he went,

let's be real, whoever goes to San Fran will succeed right off the rip. They're the better team here. You know what I mean? It's possible. So they'll be right off the rip. They're the better team here. It's possible. So they'll be good off the rip. I'll bring up Baker real quick.

The reason I love Baker so much is because of what he did to the Browns. How many quarterbacks went there and just failed to turn it around? Baker did that. I don't think he gets enough respect for that. I just don't. And you could say maybe he's not as good as people say like josh allen right i'm surprised you've gone this long in this episode without mention mentioning baker mayfield so like zach wilson could be good to say he went to like

new england you know i mean where they have pieces and smart guys around him but zach wilson is not a good enough individual to turn a team around see that's a that's a fair argument and i certainly agree with that but i mean you can't really hold it against zach wilson for the team that he's for the team that he's going to i mean very few players can just go to a team and just turn and just change a culture especially when they're rookies coming out of the draft. Baker Mayfield, it took like three years for Baker Mayfield to get to where he is now. Where is he right now? 21 touchdowns to eight interceptions.

I mean, that's solid, but is that like turning the franchise around? I mean, look at the roster too. It's not like he was coming into a bad situation. Why couldn't Johnny Manziel do it? Johnny Manziel? The roster sucked then. The roster sucked when he got there. It was pretty good when he got here.

Off-field issues for Johnny Manziel. See Sanford, you know what I think is very overrated? Kyle Shanahan. You think Kyle Shanahan is overrated? Probably one of the most overrated coaches in the league. So you think San Francisco is a great situation? Is that a good record?

29 and 35. He has a negative coaching career. Negative. So you said that San Francisco is a great situation to be in, but Kyle Shanahan's overrated and he's not a great coach. You want a negative coach? I think we've all expected Kyle Shanahan to be good. He coached Matt Ryan to a Mickey Mouse MVP.

Aaron Rodgers was robbed that year. He was robbed that year. Go look at Aaron Rodgers' numbers. And then it was also the year Julio was unstoppable. Yeah. Okay, but it was still a great year. Go look at Aaron Rodgers' numbers. It was also the year Julio was unstoppable. Yeah. It was still a great year and it was with Matt Ryan. It's Matt Ryan.

He gets too much credit for that though. He also did the same thing with Jimmy Garoppolo. Oh wait, time out. If you say that... He got absolutely embarrassed in the Super Bowl. We're getting way off topic, by the way. Can I ask this question?

Yes. Cam, if you believe that Matt Ryan's MVP was a Mickey Mouse MVP, wouldn't that give more credit to Kyle Shanahan in this scheme that makes Matt Ryan look like an MVP caliber quarterback? No, because it's Mickey Mouse because Kyle Shanahan did nothing to get Matt Ryan there. Okay. But look at where Matt Ryan is now in those Falcons teams. Ever since he's left, they haven't been the same.

They made the playoffs once, and then they haven't been good ever since. And same with Matt Ryan. He's been more of just a fantasy football guy like that's the only relevance who josh mcdaniel do i think he could be a good coach i think if he gets another opportunity he could be i don't i fail to see how this is relevant to the conversation. But he succeeded when Belichick was around and when he had other people to do things for him. So who was around when Shanahan was in Atlanta? Dan Quinn? He did what he needed to do. How's Dan Quinn doing now?

He's fired. Yeah. He got fired. Yeah. He got hired by Dallas. And how's Dallas doing? Not in a while. The Niners taking Matt Jones would be the biggest F you to any scout ever. Every scout was saying, don't take this dude. But yet Kyle Shanahan, because they know it's today,

it's like the GM said something and he was like, yeah, at the end of the day, we're taking what the coaches say very heavily into consideration. So essentially he said, Kyle Shanahan made this pick. Don't blame me. So now Shanahan thinks he knows

better than any scout who says Matt Jones is not even a first-round quarterback is running right now Matt Jones is not even a first-round quarterback. He's not even a first-round quarterback. And you're going to reach for him at what, sixth? That's the biggest F you to the scouting team I've ever seen. I think it's hilarious. For those of you who are wondering about the noise in the background, the lacrosse team lives on our floor,

and they probably have a grand total combined of about maybe, say, two brain cells, and they don't know what the hell is going on at 11.30 at night. Maybe it's finals night, study for something for once in your damn life. But yeah, as you can see, we're very patient with these lacrosse players. But yeah, I don't know. I think Mac Jones has the – I think they're too caught up. I can agree with you to a level, Cam, that they're relying too much on this. They're thinking too much on the scheme with Mac Jones when they should really just be looking at the upside.

And I think between Mac Jones and Trey Lance, Trey Lance clearly has the upside. Now, he may not be successful. He may not be successful right away but he could be one of those players who's a project and by the and by say a year a year or two from now um he could be somebody who could actually be a a great and a starting nfl quarterback in this league you know just look at Josh Allen. His first couple – it took him a couple of years to get to the level he's at, but now he's an MVP candidate and he's playing well.

So, you know, the situation is good in San Francisco. So he can – the place is right for him to grow. And in a couple of years, we could see the 49ers having their franchise guy uh now mac jones i think he could be good i think he could be say kirk cousins level for me like a solid quarterback jesus these guys just don't quite i have a question for you i don't mean to cut you off i have a question you said in a couple of years? Meaning they're not going to be great for a couple of years. If Kyle Shanahan's record is 29-35 now, right? If he has two more losing seasons, do they keep Kyle Shanahan?

You have to put that into context. A great deal of that was last year, this past year – so it was this past year. It was injuries. The team was hampered by injuries. They lost George Kittle. They lost – who's the – they lost Nick Bosa. They lost their quarterback, and both of their wide receivers were in and out of the lineup all year in Debo Samuel and Brandon Ayuk. So they were really injury-riddled that year.

And the year before that, they didn't have much of a roster to work with to begin with. And on top of that, their franchise – who is going to – who's supposed to be their franchise guy, Jimmy Garoppolo, he tears his ACL and they wound up winning two games that year. So the year where they really felt they were in contention during the 2019 season, when they went to the Super Bowl, I think that's the best year where you, where you look at it and you say, okay, when he, when every, when the cards are, when everything is in order, when all the ducks are in a row, this guy can actually coach fairly well and he has a good system that works. And it works under Jimmy Garoppolo of all players. It's not like we're taking Aaron Rodgers and they're going 13-3 and losing a Super Bowl. This is Jimmy Garoppolo, who is a decent quarterback.

All right, so this is a guy who, I mean, I think he's been able to make do with what he's had for the most part, and it's been an unfortunate situation for part of it. All right, so who was the number two i just read a theory right who was the number two prospect pick when they trade up for the third pick who was who's the number the number two prospect when they did it when they made when sanford made the trade there's a theory out there that they thought the jets would just take justin fields so you think you think they want zach wilson no i think it was ian rapaport may have reported it someone reported that there was a

theory that they thought the jets leaked something that they were sold with justin fields so when sanford made the trade they thought they could get zach So when Sandcrime made the trade, they thought they could get Zach Wilson. Well, they only made the trade a few weeks ago, and they've been pretty fixed on taking Zach Wilson for a couple months now. It's not like – I feel like it was going to be Justin Fields for a little while, but it really turned – the tide really turned into they're going to take Justin. They're going to take – sorry. They're going to take Zach Wilson.

So it's really just shifted in that direction drastically, to be honest, which is really crazy. I didn't see anything wrong with Zach Wilson – or sorry, with Justin Fields. I mean, but I can understand why they like Zach Wilson. I mean, that guy looks – they call him – down over out of Utah, they call him the Mormon Patrick Mahomes. And if you watch him, he lives up to it. It really is crazy the abilities that he has. It seems like every year there's quarterbacks that are hyped up,

and every year we all fall for it as fans. And then every decade there's one good quarterback that comes off it. Maybe two. I think Trevor Lawrence will be okay. I think whoever goes to Sanford will be bad. I don't think Zach Wilson will be good. I like Trey Lance, but I think it depends on where he lands. And I don't think Matt Jones will last too long in this league

with the style he plays. I think we're looking too deep into this. And like 90% of quarterbacks take and fail in the first round. They don't – they just don't work out. But every time there's hype leading up to those people. Well, that's the same thing with every quarterback. Well, if you look at the statistics for the rounds before the rounds after the first round, it's actually even worse. So the best chances of getting a legitimate star NFL quarterback, that typically comes in the first round.

You can just go back to – you can go to Peyton Manning. You can go to Aaron Rodgers. I'd like to look up how many starting quarterbacks right now of all 32 were taking the first round. I don't think it's more than 50%. I don't. If you want to look it up. I don't know what that is.

You know what I mean? Have your assistant behind you do that. I'll just simply ask you, how many quarterbacks do you know who have been drafted in the third round or later, have wound up becoming star caliber NFL quarterbacks? I know of Russell Wilson. I know of Tom Brady. Besides that, who else? Unfortunately, Dak Prescott.

I was thinking of concluding him, but do we? I think he's a very good NFL quarterback. He got the contract. I mean, if we include Dak Prescott, I think we include Kirk Cousins at that point, right? Yeah, I mean, Kirk Cousins has been successful. You know what I mean? You don't want to – you want to say he's not, but like he got that big contract. I mean, for a while he was top, I don't know, what would you say, 15 quarterback?

Yeah. That's good enough. You know what I mean? But like I think at least two of these quarterbacks would be worse than Kirk Cousins. I think Kirk Cousins is a very solid NFL quarterback. I don't think he's a franchise guy. I'm going to look it up. Last 10 years, QBs taking round one.

All right. Let's see it i think um well you can go back in in recent in uh recent years uh in 20 not in 2019 the 29 what was it the 20 after was justin herbert, the quarterbacks taking first round. Sam Bradford and Tim Tebow. Both of them extremely hyped coming out. How'd they do? Not that great.

2011, Cam Newton, Jake Locker, Lane Gabbert. Okay, Cam Newton panned out. He did. 2010 wasn't a quarterback draft, was it? What are we, one for like seven right now? 2012. 2012 was really good. Andrew Luck, Robert Griffin III, Ryan Tannehill, and Brandon Whedon. So you're two for four.

Two for four. So you're including Ryan Tannehill? No, yeah, Ryan Tannehill. Ryan Tannehill's a success. 2013 was not a good draft year for a quarterback. 2013, you had E.J. Manuel. Bust. 2014, you had Blake Bortles, Johnny Manziel, and Teddy Bridgewater.

0 for 3. 2015. Teddy Bridgewater's a special case. All right. Jameis Winston in 2015 and Marcuscus mariota over two no 2016 jared garth cost carson wentz i'll give him two for two that's like 2017 mitch trubisky mahomes and watson two for three two for three that's a that's a loud two for three as well. Yeah, that is very good. 2018, Baker Mayfield, Sam Darnold, Josh Allen, Josh Rosen, and Lamar Jackson.

That's a damn good quarterback draft. That's a damn good one. 2019, Kyler Murray, Daniel Jones, Dwayne Haskins. One and a half out of three? Yeah, I don't like Daniel Jones. I'd give it to Kyler Murray, though. He's legit. And then 2020, Joe Burrow.

I think – Herbert. Jordan Love. I think Daniel Jones is going to be a special case. He's going to be somebody where we don't know. This is going to be a telling year for Daniel Jones. If he sucks this year, then I'll give you that. You know who I do like is this quarterback draft so far from this past year?

Justin Herbert is a real stud. I don't think so. Justin Herbert? I think he landed on the best team. The best team. Out of the quarterbacks drafted. The Los Angeles Chargers are the best team. Out of the quarterbacks drafted.

I mean, Tua's not great. You know what I mean? And Joe Burrow. I think Joe Burrow's not that great either. But Justin Herbert, I mean, he landed on pretty good. A bit of an unpopular opinion, wouldn't you think? Joe Burrow? Joe Burrow?

Joe Burrow, yeah. He had a dude pretty good. He takes too many sacks on purpose. He rolls out of pockets. You think he gets sacked on purpose? That line sucks. The offensive line sucks. He had like the 10th longest time to throw in the pocket. What do you mean?

He's a rookie. He's a kid. That offensive line. Top 10 time to throw. How do you know? What do you mean had the 10? He also has legs, so he probably bought a lot of time. It's not just, oh, 10th longest.

He was just standing there in the pocket. You have to put that into context. He had no offensive line. What are you looking up now? 20 QB time to throw. He's probably extending time with his legs, like Russell Wilson does, like Lamar does. Time to throw means in the pocket, not outside the pocket. Where's the statistics where he had the 10 10th longest because i'm really not sure

yet he he did not have 10 he is mayfield allen once he's like bottom half look joe burrow he showed plenty of of promise to at least be able to say this kid has potential. I'm going to risk you quarterbacks with less time to throw. Okay. Kyler Murray. He had a bad year too. Jared Goff. Jared Goff? Jared Goff.

That's the same. Same with him. Okay. Lamar Jackson. Lamar Jackson also. Baker Mayfield also didn't throw that much. Matthew Stafford. And also.

And also Burrow falling with those quarterbacks. I think Joe Burrow is a very good quarterback who could wind up being a good quarterback. I think he's okay. I think the Bengals are the Bengals. They don't like to spend money. They'll never surround him with talent. So, like, Andy Dalton is really good.

You forget about that. And it was just another talent wasted. And I feel that's how Joe Barr was going to end up too. I mean, I love me some red rifle Andy Dalton, but do you really think it was Andy Dalton's talent, or do you think he was just surrounded with a good team in his early playing years? I mean, you consider his team a good team in his early playing years. I mean, you consider his team a good team? I think A.J. Green in his prime and Mohamed Sanu back in his prime years

are actually pretty good, yeah. And remember Tyler Eifert before injuries ruined his career? He was actually pretty good. What about Marvin Jones? He never had no line. And his defense defense that defense was vicious like literally they they got dirty at times but that defense was vicious that helped they helped him domito peco fontes perfect adam pacman jones reggie nelson

they used to have a little rivalry with the steelers remember that when they used to just bash each other that's how uh that's how antonio brown turned have a little rivalry with the Steelers. Remember that? When they used to just bash each other. That's how Antonio Brown turned into a little – probably got CTE. A little bit going there. But we can't diagnose it yet. But, Cameron, you said you had some thoughts on the draft that you wanted to get to. So do you have those in front of you? Do you care to share with us? Well, no. It was just the big – I'm not big on, no, it was just the big, you know what I mean? I'm not big on, I'm not so on Zach Wilson.

I think, you know what I mean? There'll be two good quarterbacks that come out of this. The rest we duds. And as his statistics tell you that, you know what I mean? We just read off all those quarterbacks. I mean, it's under 50% the hits. So the more quarterbacks you take, yeah, yeah you get a couple of the pop but you also get more that don't all right but the only way to get a good quarterback is to actually

try to draft them well yeah that's what i'm saying you miss a hundred percent of the shots you don't take i'm tired of like every year you know i mean these like fans and the media goes crazy for all these quarterbacks that over 50 of them don't pan out it's like actually look at what the scouts are saying and the scouts are right most of the time that is their job you could look at what the scouts were saying about tom brady if you look at the scout report it didn't work it didn't look like it was going to work out. They thought he was going to be a career backup at best if he could even make a major play. People are staying out.

They don't wire to them. And it turns out – That's just who he is. Well, exactly. So, I mean, things never always pan out. And, in fact, most of the time it doesn't but you need to you it's important to roll the dice especially if you're an nfl franchise who's looking for your franchise quarterback you know if if you actually end up tapping on one of these these quarterbacks you

could actually um you could actually become become a great franchise for years to come just look at the kansas city chiefs they traded up to at to number 10 to grab patrick mahomes and that turned you could actually become a great franchise for years to come. Just look at the Kansas City Chiefs. They traded up to number 10 to grab Patrick Mahomes, and it turned out that that worked out. And Patrick Mahomes wasn't a player who was exactly hyped up the way he is now. People thought that he was a reach. They thought there was some – I don't know who thought –

Everyone thought the Bears were going to take him. What are you talking about he was a reach they thought there was some there was some people saying that the bears were going to take him what are you talking about he was a reach nobody thought the bears were going to take him who thought the bears were going to take him there's there's people coming there's teams coming out now who are saying oh well we were going to take him at number 11 now that he's turned into a and a future hall of fame player possibly you know people are like oh we were going to take him at number 11 do you really he's turned into a future Hall of Fame player possibly. People are like, oh, we were going to take him at number 11. Do you really believe that? Do you really think that they're just – why didn't they say that before? Why are they saying that now that he's become this –

the face of the league, literally taking the league by storm? I just don't believe it for a second. The Bears were in close talks in Mahomes during the draft process. As we know, they didn't meet with Watson. It was Trubisky and Mahomes were the quarterbacks they were looking at. Many thought it was Mahomes that they were going to take. No, they were fixed on Trubisky for that whole time. And it turns out Deshaun Watson is another guy, but I don't know.

You just have to roll the dice. You have to roll the dice. We're debating between these three quarterbacks here. There is Deshaun Watson, Patrick Mahomes, and Mitch Trubisky. All two of the three are superstars in this league now. Now the other guy, he's just below average garbage. I think Trubisky will be Zach Wilson. You think Trubisky's going to be Zach Wilson?

Yeah. Well, I'm not saying he'll be like, but we're going to look back on this draft, and that's who he's going to be. He's going to be the reach for him, and he wasn't as good as everyone thought he was. Okay. Okay.

You can have your opinion. All right. So we're going to move on to the next part. And so we've talked a little bit about Baker Mayfield, how you're a diehard Baker Mayfield fan. And I'm sure you like the Browns a little bit as well. I'm actually surprised you haven't gone out of your way to mention him at all. Quite as much as I thought.

But give us your take on Baker and the Browns, just the state of the team going into the 2021 season. I think they're in a great position. I think Baker, I think he's a dark horse MVP candidate, simply because he has to be. I mean, you see Josh Allen put up numbers. You see Lamar Jackson won an MVP. So now you have the best team around you when you look at these two other teams. And it's time for you to put up numbers, you see Lamar Jackson won an MVP. So now you have the best team around you when you look at these

two other teams. And it's time for you to put up numbers that people expect you to put up. So I think you will. His numbers last year were pretty good post-Odell. He had two games early January. They were complete rain and wind storms where helicopters weren't flying.

So you can't hold those two games against him because that's the only way he plays. So the numbers were really good after Odell, and I think if he continues to put up those numbers, they'll extend him past his fifth-year option. So that's interesting that you talk about the offense elevating to that level because it really hasn't changed very much this offseason it's most of the change has been for the from this from the defense so do you think do you think just the just the team will the

chemistry on the team will get better and that just the play will just flow a lot better or do you think it's what do you what do you think it's gonna be from that I definitely the seat to they got from the Rams. I'm blanking on his name right now. Troy Jones? Yes. I think that was a huge signing. He was the captain of the Rams defense with Aaron Donald and all of them

and Jalen Ramsey, and he still ran that defense. So I think that would be a massive signing. Clowney's great. I mean, do I think he'll put up fantastic numbers? No, I think that'll be a massive signing. Clowney's great. I mean, do I think he'll put up fantastic numbers? No, I think he's a little overhyped, but now it's someone else that O-lines have to worry about combined with

Myles Garrett. So I think that frees up Myles Garrett a little bit more. So I think their defense need help and they address it really well. That's where I think Baker needs to perform this year. If he doesn't perform this year, then there's going to be some big question marks. Absolutely. Yeah.

So you think Baker's going to be an MVP candidate this year? I do because I think he has to be. You think he has to be? You think he has to be? I think he has to be. Baker has to perform at that level. So not just any statistics, any signings to back it up, just he has to be. He has to be an MVP.

He has to be on that level. Say he performs another, like this was a good season. By no means am I saying this season was great for him. It was a good season. Then they go into that fifth year, you know what I mean? And then it's like will they be talking contract? Do you give Baker $40 million? I mean that's the number.

That's where everything's at right now. Baker also doesn't strike me as the dude to play hardball come contract time I think if there's one quarterback that's gonna take a pay cut it'll be Baker I think the Mars could demand the bank and I think the Marvel bankrupt that team you think okay so that's a great transition into our next part of this show. And I kid you guys not. This is an actual debate that went on that has been ongoing. I wish I was kidding. This has been going on between these two, between justin our co-host and cam it's whatever um camera uh so cam thinks baker mayfield is better than lamar jackson justin disagrees justin thinks lamar justin thinks cam is crazy and that lamar Jackson is absolutely better than Baker Mayfield. I'll put that in to follow up.

When I publish this – What I want you to do is do some research for this, right? I need you to do some research for this. Look up the passing numbers. Put them side by side and see who people pick. Well, why don't we just put in the poll and have people do the research for themselves? A lot of people know. Because people won't do that.

Put the numbers side by side, see who they pick. I feel like you're going to ask me to put in numbers that just support Baker Mayfield's cause. No, just basic completion percentage. Although I have to say I'm not sure what numbers would actually support that. If he's talking passing yards, sure. But if you're talking wins, it's the yards. I want touchdowns. I want picks.

I want completion percentage. When Mark's looking at you in picks, he was the lead lead in touchdowns at one point in time. He was a unanimous MVP. And, you know, he's just flat out overall. And he threw in a triple coverage and the biggest throw of his season this year. Triple coverage for a pick six.

And Baker still lost to this man. Funny that. You can't even say he lost to the defense. No, he lost to Lamar Jackson. I think Lamar Jackson's throw to seal that game with that pick six is probably top five worst throw of the season. And it came at a time when you cannot afford to do that. That's not a week five game. That's take your time, make the read, and you threw a horrible ball.

He just threw one bad pass. That's the way I saw it. It's when you make that bad pass. You can't make it there. You can't. Great quarterbacks don't. And you think Baker's a great quarterback? Yeah.

I think you just threw out a stat about his touchdown and interception thing, which was 21-8 if I was correct. Lamar was 26-9. So more touchdowns and just one more. Just one more interception. 2-0 against him in the regular season. Didn't get to face him in the postseason. So undefeated in the regular season this year.

Beat him both times. The first time pretty badly. The second time more convincingly. And he did so with, say it would be now, his arm. Not just his running. His arm in the final two minutes of the game. You mean when he faked an injury to leave the game so his defense could get him back in the game that he came back and won? What are you talking

about? That defense was failing when Lamar left. What defense did Lamar, what defense was being played while Lamar was out? I just didn't see anything special that happened. Why did he leave?

Why did he leave? Because he had cramps. I don't understand what the – he had cramps. You want your NFL starting quarterback leaving a game where they kind of want to win because he has cramps? I don't want my guy doing that. He's only done that once in his NFL career. All I'm saying is when you got go you gotta go and sometimes what does that have to do with this adam what does that i saw i saw him well i saw him walking down back running down and back from that locker room and i just gotta say i know that waddle you know he definitely my boy said that's cramps that's all you know when you have

taco bell things don't go things don't always go so smoothly or say chipotle you know anything anything mex anything hispanic uh his uh sorry latin food you know it's some some crazy stuff just saying when you gotta go you gotta go he was not he was not pulling a paul pierce he must have felt 10 pounds lighter must have been so i i was running a lot better after that play i also think the hit that took him out in the playoffs was not... It wasn't soft, but it was not a concussion protocol hit. There were just

multiple more hits that gained that were worse than that. You're saying he got taken out to save the Irishman. Okay. So you didn't see Lamar's head snap back? Or are we just avoiding that?

Are we going to go through the season and find all those hits where it wasn't deemed concussion protocol, but just happened to be after he throws the worst throw of his career? Then that happens? First off, the reason he got a concussion is because our center, for some reason, can't handle a snap to send it to our quarterback. He throws it over Lamar's head. Lamar Jackson throws the ball away, and then he takes a hit, and then his head snaps back, and then he gets the concussion, and he's ruled out for the rest

of the game. That was the blow that killed us for the rest of the season, not the interception, because if we actually look at that game, they couldn't score after the touchdown. They legit could not score. I just think that there are so many harder hits that aren't being concussion protocol. And then Matt gets put into concussion protocol. I think that's a soft hit.

It also depends on how the hit happens. It's just the placement of it, how his head – like if your head snaps it's it's not it's just the placement of it how his head like if your head snaps back it's not just taking a direct hit like a direct hit from the head uh to the head it's you're also you know your if your head snaps back your brain like your brain isn't just when your brain is in your skull there's still some room for it to move and the issue with this is when your skull either snaps back or takes a direct stop like so suddenly um during a hit then your skull your the brain's going to hit the wall that that the side of your skull it's going to hit the inside of your skull and cause issues like that.

But there was no fencing pose from him. He didn't look – you know what I mean? He looked like a man who lost a game. You know what I mean? He did not look completely out of it. And to be taken out of a game where your team needs you. Availability is the best ability. And he doesn't have it.

Even when my guy's not available, he's still better than your guy. Your guy can't even beat my guy. He's not even on the level. I've failed to see when Baker Mayfield couldn't beat the Chiefs with their backup quarterback. I mean, that wasn't – Baker Mayfield didn't even get the ball back. That was their piss-poor defense we talked about. I think that defense was –

Baker Mayfield was on a roll that second half. He was playing really well that second half. Are we talking about Cleveland's defense or Kansas City's defense? The second half of that game, Baker Mayfield woke up and he was playing fantastic. He just didn't get the ball back in the fourth when he needed it. So Baker Mayfield's defense or Cleveland's defense? Baker Mayfield is on the team. I think he was talking about Cleveland's defense or Cleveland's defense? Baker Mayfield is on the team. I think he was talking about Cleveland's defense. So Cleveland's defense is bad.

You said Baker couldn't beat Kansas City with a backup quarterback. Well, Baker Mayfield didn't face the backup quarterback. He faced their starting defense. So that's not really a... Right, but were you talking about Kansas City's defense being pretty bad too? He was talking about Cleveland's. He just didn't get the ball back. If he got the ball back, they'd win that game.

He didn't. I mean, only one of these players has had an MVP caliber season so you think you think Baker Mayfield is due no one had tape on him good job seven games worth of tape is still seven games worth of tape it's not nothing it's pretty substantial and then the next season he wins MVP come on that's pretty substantial amount of tape for you to make an adjustment to it and it seems like he made an adjustment to the league his his throwing arm got better he was able to throw down the field I mean it seemed in the beginning of the of his career he just seemed like that it felt like the Ravens had to go with a high school type offense.

He couldn't throw the ball when it mattered most. He still can. He can. He can. I thought Cleveland learned that lesson up in Cleveland when we beat y'all. He became a very capable passer to the point where they actually had to – opposing teams had to had to respect the past game and it allowed and it allowed Lamar Jackson to sort of be able to run all over teams all season long and but however once you get to the playoffs it gets to a point where a team is going to be able to stop the run and force you

to throw and I just don't think lamar jackson's passing abilities are good enough to overcome that where you have to come back from a large deficit or if you're forced to throw so many times feels like when lamar jackson wins games when he's allowed to rush more um or if he's able to get out to big leads. But if you can't get the run game going and if you can't fall behind, then teams that are centered around a quarterback like Lamar Jackson, they're screwed

at that point. It was the same with Michael Vick. There's a reason why he didn't survive in the NFL. He got arrested. Same reason Lamar won't. Yeah, he got arrested, but how about in the years that he was here? He played well, and then after he came back,

he played well. I think Lamar Jackson's his own guy. Lamar Jackson is five times better than Michael Vick. Michael Vick said that his own self. He's broken Michael Vick's passing records.

And he's had back-to-back thousand yards rushing seasons. Mm-hmm. But at the same time. Tell me a main rushing quarterback who has won anything big. Oh, wait. They don't. they don't they don't in the time

Baker Mayfield has won anything big mm-hmm has MVP been like win a Super Bowl he hasn't yet

yeah neither of them have neither of them have so it's gonna take time but it's but but again Lamar doesn't have the weapons Baker does,

and yet Lamar is still considered a better player than Baker. Baker Mayfield has gone through four coaches in three seasons. And he's had Jarvis Landry and Odell Beckham Jr. during all of those years. And Nick Chubb and Kareem Higgins. Four different offensive schemes. He had a – wait till year two wait till year two with a confident head coach you guys do have a confident head coach now we do yes now we do so hopefully you guys do a little something but y'all still not beating beating us respectfully all right we'll have to find out about just just how this winds up turning out.

It feels like we can debate about this all night, but it's really going to come down to how things plan out. We can talk about what's going to happen. The Baker Mayfield MVP campaign, it just has to happen. There's Lamar Jackson who hasn't won a Super Bowl. We're going to have to wait for it. But we're just going to have to find out. All right, guys, do you have any closing thoughts before we end up – before we wrap up for tonight?

Just wait until Zach Wilson is a big bust. Nah, Lamar's better than Baker. That's all I got. All right, now. As a running back, maybe. It's both a running back and a quarterback. He's far better than him in every single way. All right, that'll do it for us tonight.

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