The Fumblerooski Podcast - Standoff Out West -Ep 93 The Fumblerooski Podcast

Episode Date: June 24, 2022

Which team wins the historically-stacked AFC West? Which team finishes last? who's had a better career as a TE than Rob Gronkowski? Adam Wright and CJ Medieros debate on Episode 93 of The Fumblerooski Podcast.

here's edelman broken up and the pass is no sign yet edelman comes down with a football they're saying it's a catch it's his cross! To Gates! Sideline! Touchdown! Unbelievable! Swings it way down the field to Watkins! Sammy Watkins for the touchdown!

Good evening. You are listening to the Fumble Rooski podcast by Power 88 and Fans Only Sports Network. I'm Adam Wright with CJ Medeiros, and we apologize that we weren't, again, able to get an episode off on Thursday like we wanted to. And I'm sorry that I wasn't able to let you guys know. Usually, I'll post on Instagram saying, hey saying hey guys we moved the episode to this date but i didn't even have enough time for that see at my for my internship i was calling a game and i had to prepare all these notes uh for this game that i call it's a lot of work doing a broadcast and i will i didn't even have enough time to even think about uh episode, but I was planning

on moving it. We did have a guest, but something came up with him as well. And we'll try to get a guest on next week, but we still have a great episode planned for you guys. And we're going to touch on Rob Gronkowski's retirement. But We're going to start by previewing the AFC West, which is a highly touted division. I must say, this is something that I've been looking forward to previewing this summer. Let's just jump into it. The AFC West, I'll just give a brief summary of what happened. I believe the chargers struck first by trading for khalil mac and they got him for basically pennies on the dollar just because

of his age and uh injuries as well just recently and they also got jc jackson in free agency a and who is who's going to be a great corner to pair up with asante samuel jr and you can formulate your arguments on which ones which one will be the number one corner um i'm not sure who i have but uh they also draft they also picked in the draft zion johnson a guard to work on that offensive line which is already great and And then the Raiders. So they made the biggest, arguably the biggest, arguably the biggest move here by trading for Devante Adams, a wide receiver, arguably the best in the game. And then you have Chandler Jones, who they signed, who's one of the better defensive ends in the game. And they also traded for Rakia Sin to get someone in that secondary. Then let's go to the Chiefs.

So the Chiefs probably had the most negative thing happen to them, which is they were forced to trade Tyreek Hill. And so they did sign some pieces to work on that receiving core now that they lost Tyreek Hill. They brought in Juju Smith-Schuster they brought in Marquez Valdez-Scantling and they but they did use both picks on defense so they brought in it was George Karloftis and Trent McDuffie a corner and an edge rusher so they they worked on that defense now let's move on to the broncos now another

move arguably the biggest not only in this division but also in the this entire offseason which was that they acquired quarterback russell wilson which was huge for them they also signed randy gregory a defensive end but cj'll ask you, where do you think this whole defense, how does this whole crazy division stack up with each other? Well, I feel like for the most part, it's on an even playing field because it used to be the Chiefs were far and away ahead of everyone. But in my own humble opinion, I would argue that the Broncos, the Raiders, and the Chargers took a step forward while the Chiefs took a step back. That offense is a lot less scary with Tyreek Hill.

And Hill and Kelsey were a dangerous combination. But without Tyreek Hill, someone who can keep the defense honest and can take the top off, now the defense is free to double team Travis Kelsey every play. And you're really banking that the career number three receiver Marquez Valdez-Scantling can burst forward. Maybe Juju can return to his pre-injury form. Not really hopeful for that. And there's another one one there a speedy guy

I don't know why I am blanking on his name he used to be wide receiver too he's also like a return guy Nicole Hardman yes Nicole Hardman who could be but I'm still adamant the Chiefs back in that draft reached on him but look I mean I like Nicole hardman but i don't think he's number one it looks like they i mean maybe juju maybe i'm most hopeful for but i don't know but the other teams my god the raiders car and adams back together that defensive line is as ferocious as ever but that defense but they all have their weaknesses for the raiders the defensive backfield oh good lord that defensive backfield is awful well except for Rocky Sin and maybe Jonathan Abram well it all really depends though maybe if guys like Trayvon Mullen can step up but Denver I mean Denver had a good defense

they have lots of good pieces on offense but now you have the piece that's Russell Wilson expect Broncos anything or of making the playoffs i will call this season a disappointment and the chargers their weakness basically they really didn't address their biggest weakness and which in my eyes was their run defense they're doubling down on pass rushing but they really they're really banking on bosa and mac to stop the run. But I mean, everyone's hailing the Chargers, the champions of the offseason. And yet with Justin Herbert, as good as he is, they've yet to make the playoffs. And don't give me the, oh, well,

they were close. Well, close doesn't much count in the NFL. And the Falcons were close to winning a Super Bowl too. Tell me how that turned out. But, I mean, it seems like they all have their strengths. They all have their weaknesses. And for the most part, they seem to be almost even. It's going to be interesting to see how it shakes out. Now, I will say one more thing. Injuries. Injuries can uproot an entire season.

You know, like you don't know when or where they're going to happen. But, you know, nfl it's a war of attrition your best abilities are availability and you can't place expectations on these teams quite yet because because let me tell you something like if one of these quarterbacks goes down they're done and i know like injury seems minute but if you become like the ravens were last year you don't have a chance of making the playoffs, especially in this newly minted, probably the toughest division in the NFL, probably. Yeah. Injuries are a factor and that's going to, that's going to, and it's not something

we can predict at all. And it could bite any one of this, any one of these teams. And it's, it's going to be a factor but we can't really predict any of that so i mean for all we know all these teams could stay 100 healthy it's unlikely but it could happen but look this is so i talked about the afc east and also the afc north as both divisions where we could realistically see any of these teams making the playoffs for this division i could see not only all of these teams making the playoffs not all of them because that's mathematically impossible wait oh no no there's an extra playoff spot so technically there'd be one and the three would have to be like the three best non-playoff teams right um this is this is a

division where i could realistically see every team and any one of these teams winning it winning the division i can see it now there's some for some of these teams it's it may be a little bit of a long shot namely the oak Oakland Raiders. Excuse me. Whoa. The Vegas Raiders. It's just muscle memory. Yeah, I hear you. Namely the Las Vegas Raiders, as they did have a prized acquisition in Devontae Adams

and another one in Chandler Jones. And they worked on that secondary with Rakia Sin. However, this is a team that's still flawed. You still have an offensive line that leaves a little bit to be desired. And your secondary still isn't that good. I like Rakia Sin, and he's going to get better. But if he's your best player in that secondary, and possibly your only player in that secondary, then you're not going to go better but if he's your best player in that secondary and possibly your only player in that secondary then you're not going to go anywhere and the secondary is extremely important when it comes to the nfl uh now looking at the rest of these teams i think the chiefs as much

as they've taken a big hit this offseason i think they're going to be better than people think they are they're gonna they're gonna be all right patrick mahomes is a very good quarterback and And I think he's going to make Juju and Mark on Marcus Valdez Scantling that much better. And I think, uh, I think they're going to be a much more balanced team that they have than they have in the past. Their offense isn't going to be as electric as it, as it used to, but they use both of their first round picks on defense which is huge george carloftis is going to be uh big to add in with frank clark there and to to use their first round pick on trent mcduffie was big because their secondary blew and they lost t it was tj ward right that's that's his uh trevarius there's a lot – there's so many Wards in the NFL.

You lose track. But Trent McDuffie is a clear upgrade from there, and I do have faith in him. I do wish my Patriots took him, and I know you did as well, even though you wanted Devin Lloyd at the time. I would have been fine with either, but, you know back yeah because you know you know um but this chief's team is going to be a lot better than we think and i could realistically see them winning the division as well and this will be a team this is a team that has more weapons on offense maybe not as electric as juju but they have they have more places to go it's not just Tyreek Hill and Travis Kelsey.

You know what I'm saying? And it'll be more of a little bit of a death by a thousand paper cuts type of offense. Moving on to the Chargers. This is actually a team that I have winning the division. And look, if you're blowing teams out, then the run defense won't matter that much because you can't play from behind by running the ball. No matter how bad that run defense may be, you can't win games by doing that. And they're just going to be blowing teams out.

They may not win the Super Bowl because there's going to be a team that's going to be able to hang with them and keep it close and then be able to run the ball. However, I just see the Chargers winning this division. They have the most talent. They have talent everywhere you look, except for the, except for the run defense. But that's another, that's, that's another, that's another spot to, to worry about once you reach the playoffs, then we get to the Broncos. This is another team that I could easily see making the playoffs and possibly making a run they have russell wilson who's a big time competitor and this is a team that's been looking that is kind of been a quarterback away they've been they've had talent everywhere their

offensive line is solid their defense has been building up over the years that secondary i really like with patrick sartan the second i really like that kid and you have two very promising young weapons with courtland sutton who's been playing well with poor quarterback play and jerry judy who's knocking on the door of becoming a star so i really like that team and we haven't even talked about tim patrick and kj hamler who are also pretty solid wide receivers they don't have a tight end anymore and no they have albert of wugbenum however you pronounce his name albert oh they call him right they have they do have him i mean he's always been second fiddle to noah fan remains to be seen whether he can do anything that noah did but

the opportunity is there now now that noah fans a Seahawk. But this is a division that I really – this is going to be a fun division to watch. And any team that has the – and I'm – I don't have the schedule in front of me. I'm not sure which division has to play the whole AFC West. But this is going to be tough for them. This is going to be tough. And this is no doubt for me probably the best division in in football yeah i i 100 agree adam certain i yeah sorry what were you gonna say no no continue no i was just continue with what you were gonna say all right

so as i was saying like like I said, this division, it feels like the true anything can happen division. I mean, you never know. Even teams like the Raiders and the Broncos could surprise you all. But the issue that I have with the Chiefs and Adam, you know, you said it's like death by a thousand paper cuts. That's really not their style. So here's the question.

Mahomes or no Mahomes, when you look at that receiver core and you have to imagine Kelsey's going to be doubled almost every play can they hang in a shootout with say the Chargers I don't know why but I really don't think so because Tyree Kill like I said he was that guy. He kept the defense honest. He could take the top off the defense at a moment's notice. And like I said, when you're guarding him, Kelsey can really do his damage in the middle. But if he can't do that, then what? Because, I mean, what we're talking about,

teams that can hang with the Chargers, I think it's going to be a lot easier now to hang with the Chiefs. Because like I said, that death by a thousand paper cuts is not the type of offense they run. And I feel like there's all right, we have Juju and MBS. We're just going to have them do their thing. And I feel like it's going to be kind of like fitting, trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. Like I said, I really think they're going to take a step back.

And if it's like another Buffalo game, I'm not confident in their ability to hang with, you know, in a shootout. Well, if that's going to have to be the way they run their offense now, because they don't have a player like Tyreek Hill. And if they continue to try and play like they do have Tyreek Hill, then they're going to, they're going to, I agree with you there. They're going to get screwed over if they try to do that. I'm just trying to say, I think they're going to try in with the way they built this offense now over this off season, they're going to have to do that.

And, you know, you have Nicole Hardman to, to do jet sweeps and, and short passes too. And Juju Smith Schuster is capable of that as well, as we saw in during his days in, in Pittsburgh and Marcus valdez scantling is going to be going to have to be that guy who you go deep to to stretch the field now he's obviously not tyree kill but he's still fast and he does have the capability to catch the deep ball as we saw when he was working with aaron rogers and he's working with every bit of as as effective of a quarterback in Patrick Mahomes now. So I just think they're going to be a lot better than people think.

And you mentioned that they're going to be, can they do that competing with a team like the Chargers? Offensively, no. But defensively, I think they'll be able to slow down the Chargers enough so that they can make the plays at the end of the game to keep it close. Because I think this defense is going to be a lot better, enough so that they can make the plays at the end of the game to keep it close because i think that this defense is going to be a lot better probably the best we've seen we will be seeing from the chiefs during the patrick mahomes era if we're going to call it that uh i i i really don't know

i mean i i get it but i feel like they don't want to make a change to their offense. I mean, maybe they will, but I personally don't think they will. If they don't, then they're screwed. I'll give you that much. If they don't, they're screwed. Yeah, I'm just going to say I kind of feel like you're giving their defense a little too much credit. Yes, they used the first two picks on defense, but unless

they can, unless Karloffis can come in and be like Miles Garrett right away, or maybe they found a Patrick Sertan in the guy they drafted there from Washington, McDuffie. McDuffie, yeah. I don't know. I'm still not a fan of their secondary.

I mean, they got Justin Reed, but they lost the Honey Badger. They lost Travarius Ward. And furthermore, they're just. Travarius ward and furthermore they're just isn't that good though yeah but he was still better than their other guy whose name is whose name also escapes me like their defense especially their backfield is so forgettable yeah i mean they they get blown by like almost every play. And, and let me tell you something, if that, a McDuffie pick doesn't work, you, you have set yourself back a few seasons.

Perhaps they've set themselves back. Well, they, they are going to be, well, I mean, you can say the same thing about any first round pick when you have, I know,

but investing a lot in that. Yeah. I'm talking about the visual area. Oh, don't get me started on him and also can i so i don't even think i don't think carl loftus really needs to be miles garrett he just needs to be good enough so that it he generates some attention on from that offensive line and it frees up room for frank clark to blow through and maybe he can become uh have a season as a as a Miles Garrett like season

as well I mean I don't know I mean yeah I just I don't know the Frank Clark experiment really hasn't delivered on what it promised and I mean but back to that defensive backfield the Chargers have Keenan Allen and Mike Williams that's going to be horrifying the raiders have devante adams hunter renfro even darren waller and denver like you said jerry judy and courtland sutton not to mention the running backs of these teams are pretty darn good the chiefs defense is going to have its handful and i i just feel like how this defense is plus on offense a deplete uh i won't say depleted but uh not as potent receiver core a lot of these games are going to be reduced or depending on how you phrase it reduced to shootouts and i'm not sure kansas city is the shoe in to win a shootout

anymore i don't think that i don't think they'll be i just think that like i said this for this for those reasons i don't think they're going to play like they're going to try to win shootouts anymore i think they're going to play with a more balanced play style where they're they're good on offense maybe not what they have been in the past but their defense is still able to keep them into games and they they're able to win look the days of defense the days of defense winning championships are gone that much i will say however the days of winning uh it people people also misinterpret that as offense wins championships now it's not either it's it's balance and i'm not saying that this chief's team is going to win it win a championship

i'm just saying this is a formula for this team to be still pretty good. All right. I mean, fair enough, but, like, I don't know. I mean, don't get me wrong. I still think the Chiefs are going to finish at least top two in that division, but, you know, I've been dealing with a lot of their fans, and they're saying stuff like, oh, yeah, we're still the team to be in the afc no you're not no you're not don't listen to the internet trolls of instagram and twitter come on oh you mean like patrick mahomes's brother

or his or or his wife yeah it gets oh yikes yeah those two look i'm sure i do i do admire the and we can touch on that that real quick i do admire the fact that uh his wife does come to his defense and i i admire his her loyalty but it it puts a target on the chief's backs it makes people want like i i have no issue with the chiefs i really don't personally i really I really don't. But because of those two, I couldn't help but root against them in the AFC Championship against the Bengals. And part of that did have to do with the fact that I was rooting for the Bengals because they just became such a likable team. I know our buddy Tuck, who is a Ravens fan.

He loves the Bengals. For obvious reasons. but but you know look yeah like yeah i have no reason to hate the chiefs i have none besides the fact that like they just bring it upon themselves yeah i mean i used to be somewhat sympathetic for jackson mahomes like against the haters but then he made the boneheaded decision of dancing on Sean Taylor's 24 dude that like as soon as I saw that I said dude that is not that's like three different flavors of not okay yeah and then there was that whole yeah I'm sorry I'm sorry but it's like whenever you bring up a valid point against him he's like

oh you're just a hater i like no how about uh i don't know personal responsibility i mean i know we're getting off topic yeah like i feel like the vast majority of the hate they get is brought on themselves they bring it on themselves there was also that bar incident remember when that and that bar just they came out on instagram and they said we survived our we survived a pandemic we can survive your ego yeah i remember uh his wife britney literally just poured champagne on like a freezing cold crowd and arrowhead remember that i remember i think that that part i oh yeah and who could forget i think i i won't i don – I don't get on her too much for that. I just think she wasn't thinking about anything.

She just wasn't thinking and probably had a few drinks. I don't have too much information. I get it. I get it. But while we're on the subject of pouring things, remember the Ravens finally beat their boogeyman and the Chiefs. They finally, finally beat the Chiefs, and some Ravens fans were like, Oh, hey there jackson you were talking some crap before the game what's up now and he like pours water on them out of spite

jesus i'm just saying like most i would say like a solid 95 of the hate they get they bring on themselves yeah um so we've we've been able to touch pretty thoroughly on on on three of these teams we really haven't talked much about the broncos where do you see this team uh where do you see this team going i genuinely don't know it's weird to think about the broncos as good again but like you said they were that team that was one quarterback away their defense is scary they've got a lot of weapons on offense so it's all on russell wilson you know if he doesn't play well they don't make the playoffs if he plays well they got a real shot at winning the division and he will play well i really do i really do i didn't think i think so as well but i don't know why

like i am so confused about this broncos team i mean they they look good on paper i've been hearing their camps have been promising but it's just it's weird to think about personally i would expect them to make the playoffs but and if they catch fire at the right time, they could probably make a run. They probably, I really do think they will. And they might have a slow start because this whole thing is just being thrown together with a new quarterback. You know, it takes some time to figure things out and to, you know, really gel, but they, they really will. I do believe they'll hit their stride later on in the season, and they could make a deep playoff run. Past two seasons, we've seen a newly acquired quarterback win a Super Bowl. Wait, what?

Oh, my God. You're right with Stafford and Brady. Exactly. And to a lesser extent, the season before that, we can talk about Jimmy Garoppolo in his first full season making the Super Bowl and having a 20-10 lead. But that's neither here nor there. And then Kyle Shanahan, his choking gene came up again

because he was the offensive coordinator when Atlanta choked. I don't forget these things. Yeah, exactly. So, yeah, I mean, look, this is a great this is a great looking broncos team and we haven't even touched on the run game at all oh yeah giovante williams is gonna be a beast next season man he's gonna be a beast and they still and they they have depth at that position too with uh i'm blank i'm blanking on his name uh gordon wait they still have melvin gordon i didn't still have melvin gordon all right well yeah well then that's a scary running core

honestly exactly now he won't be what he was certainly not with the chargers but he's he's going to be a solid compliment to giovante williams who's, who's an up-and-coming kid, really. And the rest of that team just looks great. But anything else, we do want to move on to Rob Gronkowski retiring, as we did fail to cover that topic in our last episode. We were more focused on our player rankings and talking about, I believe it was the top edge rushers going into the 2022 season, which was a great episode by CJ and Tuck. But anything else you want to touch or are we going

straight into Rob Gronkowski? He wants to pause, but yeah, let's get to that topic there. All right, cool. All right, so next we are going to talk about rob gronkowski and we're going to touch on his legacy is he the greatest of all time we'll get to that next this is the fumble ruski podcast Here's Edelman broken up and the pass is no sign yet. Edelman comes down with a football and they're saying it's a catch. It's a catch! It's a catch! Sideline!

Touchdown! Unbelievable! Swings it way down the field to Watkins! You're listening to the Fumble Ruski podcast by Power 88 and Fans Only Sports Network. I'm Adam Wright, CJ Medeiros with you. And so, this past, I believe it was Tuesday, correct? Something like that. It was a Tuesday, Monday, Tuesday, one of those days. Rob Gronkowski, long time Patriots tight end, and recently with the Buccaneers, finally decided to hang it up for the second time,

his second retirement, at age 33. So there's always been a long, ongoing debate on whether or not Rob Gronkowski is the greatest of all time. Tony Gonzalez has been thrown out there, even Jason Witten. Travis Kelsey has entered the conversation. Antonio Gates a little bit. Antonio Gates as well. And I've never really thought about this argument.

And as a Patriots fan, everybody, believe me, there's been plenty of buzz from Patriots fans talking, like, throughout Gronkowski's whole career saying, oh, we had the greatest tight end of all time. And I always just agreed because I'm just, I won't lie, I'm just a biased Patriots fan and I'll just say, yeah, yeah, we had the greatest tight end of all time. And I always just agreed because I'm just, I won't lie, I'm just a biased Patriots fan and I'll just say, yeah, yeah, we have the best. We have the best tight end of all time. And I never really dove into it because I was just, nah, I'll just dismiss it.

Yeah, he's the greatest of all time. But I kind of just wanted to actually get into this. Do you think Rob Gronkowski is the greatest tight end of all time cj i know you have strong feelings about this so i'll let you speak first the floor is yours i can't definitively say anything but i lean towards yes and look pat's fan bias out of it i do not mean this with any disrespect towards tony gonzalez but i just prime Gronk was like the best all around tight end at that position. His routes are better than Tony Gonzalez. His hands were better and he could block infinitely better.

And everyone will say, oh, but look at Tony Gonzalez's stats. I'm like, hmm, yes. Numerically, they're the equivalent of empty calories. Because, like, what has he done? He's not a winner. Like, it's like, oh, but the teams he was on. Oh, give me a break. Like I said, this is like no disrespect to Tony Gonzalez.

I mean, it sounds bad, but, like, he was still a phenomenal player. But, like, you can't just look at stats alone. Where's the hardware, you know? It was it was like oh but rings aren't everything well i mean you know vince lombardi would disagree yeah exactly and i mean and i get it but he was still phenomenal i feel like but there is a debate i won't completely dismiss the possibility of gonzalez being number one but it's close. But personally, I lean a little towards Gronk. And also someone says Travis Kelsey is going to be the GOAT one day. No, absolutely not. He's a bargain bin Gonzalez. His routes are awful. His hands are

their average and good God, he can't block. If anything, George Kittle is closer to what Gronk was right down to the injuries. I kid, of course. But I mean, but you got to look at it this way. I still really, honestly, truly believe that Kittle is closer to what Gronk was, especially when Kittle's healthy. He is the best tight end in the league. Well, you know, like I said, but when he's healthy, that's something. But yeah, I'm not going to shut out any other arguments,

but like I said, Tony G, you can make a case, but I will not hear anything for Travis Kelsey. I really won't. All right, so the biggest argument that's used against Rob Gronkowski usually is, well, obviously injuries, but there's also his, his statistics. And a lot of that, again, does have to do with injuries. And he's only, he only has about, looks like four seasons out of the 11 years that he's

been in the league where he really went over a thousand yards. Now he had 90 had 92 touchdowns as well. But as you mentioned, being an all around tight end, like a true tight end, if we're looking at receiving statistics, we might as well basically just be talking about just the top receivers. And at that point we can just talk about all the best receivers in the game. But as you mentioned, Travis Kelsey, not a good blocker. Tony Gonzalez, can't block. So these two guys are basically just wide receivers.

Yes. Who are just big. And I will say, here's the one thing that I will disagree with you on, which is, well, you know, Tony Gonzalez wasn't on very good teams. Okay, so? Because he was on not very good teams. Tight end is, and especially wide receiver,

if you're not a quarterback, then that's not a position where you can just walk onto a team and just automatically make them better are you kidding me gronk literally did that for us from and like that 2015 season and are you we were literally one rob gronkowski away from having a bottom 10 offense so that has happened to us many times three seasons before rob gronkowski was drafted where did the patriots go no yeah but our offense changed your point has no points like yes well we also had randy miles where were we that point is such a red herring consider this where did they go we had an old man, Brandon Lloyd, Julian Edelman, before he became good, and Dropsy Westwater.

2004. What? 2001, 2003, 2004. Yeah, but our defense wasn't as good as then. In 2011, against the Giants, our defense was terrible. My point is, there were literally times, arguably from 2013 through 2015, where we would literally have an – where our receiver core, you could literally make a case, was bottom 10 if you subtracted Gronk. Look, this – they had Tom Brady during that time. Okay.

That was the big difference maker. And you can – that was also evident in 2016. Rob Gronkowski went down. And Martellus Bennett stepped in. Martellus Bennett obviously not even close to what Rob Gronkowski is. But he was able to be serviceable enough so that Tom Brady was able to work around him to make it work. Our receiving core was even decent then. Because we had Edelman, Amendola, Hogan, and a really good rookie, Malcolm Mitchell.

Those aren't really that good receivers. Are you kidding me? That was like prime Edelman though. That was like one of his 1,000-yard season. Come on. That was literally one of his 1,000-yard seasons, man. And Amendola was ultra reliable. Just because they're not big names doesn't mean they weren't good.

However, you could literally make a case like i said from 2013 through 2015 good god that it was not it was not good outside of gronk i mean i'm not saying it was bad but like if gronk didn't play you were you we didn't expect to win you had a quarterback who made those players even better than they were that's what i'm saying it was tom brady was the tom brady was the difference maker on those teams and all right and you can tell me that he was there was not the number one he certainly was but rob gronkow what rob gronkowski elevated them over the hump he didn't make them an elite team tom brady made them a competitive team that was able to be in contention for Super Bowls. Robert Gronkowski just made them that much better.

I'm not taking anything from Brady, but I specifically remember 2015, our backup tight end was like Scott Chandler. We were relegated to playing like Amendola and like Keyshawn Martin or whatever his name was. And it was just painful to watch because as soon as Gronk went down in that Broncos game, our offense took a turn for the worst. They lost a lot of players, though. Yeah, but still, like Gronk especially. Yeah, we lost Edelman, but we lost him before Gronk.

And Gronk still kept us going, but then when he went down, our offense grinded to a halt. Also, I'm pretty sure Gronk, and Gronk still kept us going, but then when he went down, our offense grinded to a halt. Also, I'm pretty sure Gronk only missed one game. No. That injury looked a lot worse than it was, but Rob Gronkowski, I'm pretty sure, all he had was a bone bruise. Hold on, hold on, hold on.

He did come back. Bring up the 2015 season. Actually, I already have it on reference oh yeah oh yeah never mind he did start 15 games 15 but still he was on a target what was it called there he's he was still on like a minutes count or a snap count or something like that count he had 120 targets yeah most of that was before he got hurt though that's the third back and he was not the same we rushed him back well he he missed time towards the end of the season and also he was a big he was a big factor during uh during the playoffs well yeah oh i'll admit but i'm just saying as long as he was there he was our best receiver and our offense was noticeably not as good without him Brady or not come on CJ they were missing a

lot of players on offense that year that was an infamous year where the Patriots were looking unbelievably good they started 10 and 0 and then the injury bit them in the ass like I know I'm not denying that I'm literally just saying that not even in that year throughout his entire career we looked very very different and very very not as good when he was not on the field he was a huge difference maker he could make something out of nothing he was the safety blanket i'm just saying the impact he had on the pads was greater than gonzalez on the you know on the uh on the wherever he was greater than Gonzalez on the, you know, on the, uh, on the, wherever he was, the Falcons, the chiefs that much we can agree on. But if you put, if you put Tony Gonzalez on that, on those Patriots teams as well, then they probably wouldn't have the exact same impact

as grown. He would not have been better. Change my mind. Not even better, but he would have made a massive impact. And probably those Superbowl, those Patriots teams probably would have still been Superbowl contenders. Oh, that's all I'm trying to say I agree with you I agree with you on Tony Gonzalez I'm just saying that um you that that is a that is a viable excuse to say that he didn't have very good teams because if you don't have good teams as a tight end then you're not going to win games even if you're're the best of the best. Let me ask you this. Let me ask you this. Put Rob Gronkowski on those Falcons teams. Do they, do things change then? Well, it's possible.

I possible. See, I will lie to you saying they would change is not out of the question. Because in his prime, you could not stop him. He was unguardable. There was no one. I mean, you could at least guard Tony Gonzalez. There were certain players who could lock him up. No one could ever lock up Bronk. Also, you mentioned George Kittle being the closest thing there is to Rob Gronkowski, at least in terms of play style.

Yeah, in terms of play style. George Kittle in his rookie season, unbelievable. Did they win squat? So, like, literally, what's your point? There you go. No, no, like, what's your point? Just saying, if you're a tight end, if you're any position other than quarterback,

it's very hard to just straight up change things like that. It's extremely hard. And I do give Gonzalez a little bit of sympathy when he was playing on those poor teams. Now, what do you think? Yeah, I know, but it's like, but it's the argument is a crutch for the Gonzalez lovers. It really is like, oh, but how many players can you say that for they just didn't have a good team like i'm sorry i'm tired of saying that for a lot of players you can say exactly you can say that for so many i think we're agreeing on a lot more than you think yeah probably it's just we're just going to add each other's part of that argument because no one says that

argument in favor of Gonzalez. They just don't want Gronk to be there because they hate the Patriots. It's a solid argument. It's a solid argument, but you can't use that to say, well, Rob Gronkowski, he's better than Rob Gronkowski. You just can't. Exactly. That's honestly my point.

It's like, well, he's better because he had a worse quarterback. Well, Darren Waller hasn't had a worse quarterback so well jaron waller has has hasn't had the best quarterback play either not to say derrick carr isn't a bad quarterback but it's it's nowhere near tom brady uh tom brady level or patrick level with type with uh mr travis kelsey over there yeah and uh kittle has to deal with the glass bones of Jimmy Garoppolo there. So it's not like he's exactly thriving, but, well, I get it. I get it. I'm sorry for yelling, but, like, God, I just hate that argument

because do you know how many players that argument works with? A lot more than you think. I feel so bad for Jimmy, though, because I think he's better than what people are giving him credit for. That's, that's neither here nor there. We're talking about Rob Gronkowski, but 261 career catches, 9,286 yards, 92 touchdowns. I want to go into this little article. I just, cause there was this article by, by NBC sports, Boston, just listed they, and they were kind enough to list all these stat records that Rob Gronkowski has.

So single-game records, youngest player with three or more touchdown receptions in a game. That was in 2010, his rookie season. He was 21 years old, 180 days. Single-season records. Most touchdown receptions by a tight end with 17 in 2011 first tight end to lead the league in receiving touchdowns in 2011 as well so 2011 was a big year for him unfortunately he got hurt right before there's the patriot super bowl run perhaps things would

have been different in 2011 but that's again neither here nor there no but our defense wouldn't have done anything and thank god jay hill's not with us because he would argue against us but the storm's coming he would say the storm the storm all right rob gronkowski's career records most offensive touchdowns in first two seasons 28 which is tied with randy moss and randy moss was a wide receiver and that must have been a season that was and i don't have the the exact stats in front of me uh from rob gronkowski but i'm sure that was paired up with the 2011 season where he had 17 most 100 yard games by a tight end with 32 most career touchdowns per game average among tight ends with 0.69 oh boy nice he would oh boy rob you would love that

i'm sure he has to know about that statistic i would imagine um most seasons with 10 or more touchdowns by a tight end and that is 2010 to 2012 and then 2014 through 2015 yeah i have the stats in front of me too and most career receiving yards per game among tight ends 68.3 oh this close to greatness if you know what i mean yeah first tight end to have three seasons with 10 or more touchdowns and 1000 or more receiving yards some of these are really just really cherry-picked stats, but they're still incredible. Yeah. I just hate when things get too analytical. Like, oh, 1,000 yards and 10 touchdowns.

Okay, cool. But either as individual records are good too. Honestly, dude, I'll fully admit these cherry-picked stats are getting weird. It's like this guy played on a broken knee in a full moon during the month of January. It's so cherry picked. Consecutive seasons with 10 or more touchdowns by a tight end. Now that is a useful stat. 2010 through 2012, 10 or more touchdowns by a tight end.

And for a player whose body is made of chandelier glass oh yeah pretty good rob gronkowski playoff records now let's go into this most receptions by a tight end in super bowl history 23 and that has more to do with the fact that he's played in that many touch that many uh super bowls i'm not sure how many he played in 2011 2014 20 did not play in 2016 oh no 2017 18 2018 and 19 and 19 so that's five super it's very rare that a tight end plays in five super bowls yeah and uh so where were we and And so most, yeah. So most receiving yards by a tight end in Super Bowl history with 297. Again, that's not that good because he played in five of them.

He played in five Super Bowls for just under 300 yards. That's not that good. That's still good, though. It's all right. Most career postseason receiving touchdowns by a tight end all right now with 15 that's pretty that's pretty good receiving 15 in in five games jesus christ that's that is that is a really good stat most career postseason receiving touchdowns between a quarterback and receiver 15 with if you can guess who it is all right i'm gonna say oh this is hard could it be tom brady oh close no it's tom brady first

tight end with a thousand or more career postseason receiving yards so i'm not how many i'm not sure how many he's played but he's played in but But when you have Tom Brady as quarterback getting you to the playoffs every year, it's going to rack up. But most career postseason receiving yards by a tight end with 11. Wait a second. Yeah, yeah. So with 1,163, youngest player with three touchdown receptions in a game in the postseason obviously

22 years 275 days so he was obviously we can come to the conclusion that he was great as a young player uh now it gets into page now it gets into patriot records most touchdown receptions 79 so look patriot records aren't that great just because besides this 20-year dynasty they had patriots really weren't that good yeah they were kind of terrible for some time yeah yeah oh yeah they were they made like two super bowls before the dynasty they didn't win any of them i mean you do have like occasional good players like you know like john hannah stan, Stanley Morgan, Andre Tippett, among others, Mike Haynes. Yep.

But, yeah, I totally get what you're saying. Most games with multiple touchdowns with 16. I mean, these are just not that good records. I might not even read the rest of these. Most games with 100 or more receiving yards by a tight end, 26. I'm sure, like, I'm sure Travis Kelsey has more, and I'm sure Tony i'm sure travis kelsey has has more and i'm sure tony gonzalez has more as well wait also if you you are just thought of if uh if people want to use the he had

tom brady argument to diminish rob gronkowski uh you could literally do the same to travis kelsey he had mahomes and alex smith and now look i know alex smith is kind of a joke now, but on his days with the Chiefs, he was a top 10 guy. I don't know about top 10. Yeah, I do. He was a kind of middle of the pack type of... He's kind of a, dare I say, Jimmy Garoppolo.

He's serviceable and and by the way he's also more he's also been healthier until he nearly lost his leg in that brutal and that uh brutal injury for the for the uh then redskins um i'm glad he's okay though and he was able to come back but well i'll admit it i'll admit i mean like, look, his passing numbers really aren't the best, but still, I mean, Kelsey was still getting most of the target share, and even still, he's literally had Mahomes. Certainly. Can I just read through the rest of these statistics? We're almost done.

So, again, to finish off Patri patriots records and it has been brief thank god because some of these records are just stupid records highest receiving yards per game average for a tight end with 82.9 in guess guess which guess which year 2011 let's get into the accolades now so a few a few accomplishments for him so four-time super bowl champion is the easy one nfl comeback player of the year in 2014 so he tore his acl and mcl in 2013 he came back he had a great year four-time first team all pro which is great i believe especially gonzalez had to face i believe gonzalez had six didn't he yeah yeah that's all well and good but what time was he really going up against yep six time all pro

14 time pro bowler so he was a pro bowl almost every year yeah but like i said which other times was he going up against the competition at the time wasn't really that good especially among tight ends uh five-time pro bowler so i believe most seasons where he made the pro bowl he was an all pro um that's how it works usually yeah and then nfl's 2010s all decade team so he's been dubbed the best tight end in the 2010s not not too much of a surprise there travis kelsey gives some competition but that's about it uh nfl's nfl 100th anniversary all-time team so the so whoever put the put that together believes that tom that rob gronkowski greatest tight end of all time. So we were really just in this, in this segment, we've been able to break down, uh, break down really why we believe that Rob Gronkowski is the greatest of all time.

I did some research before this episode to formulate the argument. Cause as I said, I never really dove into it. I never really cared too much for it. I'm like, yeah, yeah, he's probably the best of all time, but I never really dove into it i never really cared too much for it i'm like yeah yeah he's probably the best of all time but i never really looked into it i always looked into the tom brady is the greatest of all time which i will die on that hill and if you try to debate me i will die on that hill i would love to debate with you but i will die on that hill tom brady greatest of all time not even a discussion i'll have a discussion but it won't be a viable discussion yes and if you guys would like to come on to the show to argue with me i am more than willing to do it i love a good debate um but yeah anything else about this before we uh before we conclude the show tonight uh no no not at all that'll do it for us tonight thank you for listening to us be sure to tune in to us live Tuesdays and Thursdays at 7.30

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