The Fumblerooski Podcast - The Highest Honor -Ep 335 The Fumblerooski Podcast

Episode Date: February 7, 2025

In this episode, the fellas review the award winners of the NFL Honors show. We also take a look at Adam and CJ's preseason award predictions and think about how far off they were. Should Josh Allen have won MVP? Or should it have been Lamar Jackson? Chris Costich, Adam Wright, and CJ Medeiros talk all this and more, including the Hall of Fame Class of 2025.

yesterday was the NFL honors today we're gonna look at the award winners in a little bit of controversy of course because nobody can ever actually be happy this is the fumble risky podcast it may not have always showed it in the stat sheet but you can see him making throws when he needs to make the throws back-to-back games where he has three touchdowns someone's gotta get that six or seven spot he's an elite wide receiver as a rookie truly a lose-lose scenario for both sides this is the fulmars podcast by power 8018 radio and secret weapon consulting i'm chris kostich with me adam wright and cj medeiros today on this this Friday episode of the Fulmer Ruski podcast

gonna take a look basically review the NFL honors from Thursday night last night and I feel like that the award show went as expected the real storyline was going to be who's going to win MVP, Josh Allen or Lamar Jackson. Of course, Josh Allen won. And of course, the internet's all up in arms once again. We'll get to that later. Other award winners, though, just quickly down the line, Jaden Daniels winning Offensive Rookie of the Year,

Jared Verse, Defensive Rookie of the Year, Pat Sert daniels winning offensive rookie of the year jared verse defensive rookie of the year pat sirtan winning defensive player of the year saquon barkley offense player of the year joe burrow uh no big surprise here comeback player of the year and then kevin o'connell another one no big surprise at all uh winning coach of the year but we're going to start with jayden daniels no big surprise this was one of the year. But we're going to start with Jaden Daniels. No big surprise. This was one of the best rookie seasons we've seen, carrying a Washington team who had just gotten, who just had the second overall pick in the 2024 NFL draft.

And one season later, they're competing for a Super Bowl and one game away from going to said Super Bowl if it wasn't for them losing by 30 to the Eagles but it's funny how halfway through the season everyone kind of had a feeling like Jayden Daniels offense of the rookie of the year and this was already we're barely even like six games into the season. Then we get to the halfway point. Everyone's like, oh no, Bo Nix, Bo Nix, Bo Nix. He's Rookie of the Year. Or just name it out.

Other players that just don't have any business being Offensive Rookie of the Year. And then Jayden Daniels, of course, ended the regular season strong. Amazing playoff push. And a rightfully rewarded player at this rate. And, geez, if he doesn't become a top ten, he's pretty much already a top ten quarterback at this rate. He could easily become top 5 next year. And all roads are leading to a very successful career for Jaden Daniels.

Adam or CJ, I'll leave it out to you guys. Because in the beginning of the season, before the season started, you two had the preseason picks. I was not on the episode for that. So remind me again who you guys had for Offensive Rookie of the Year. All right. So every year what we do is we take what we picked in the preseason when we predicted everything that would happen.

As you guys know, if you've listened to our show with any sort of regularity, we preview how divisions go. We predict the top five going into each season of every position. We also predict our honors winners every year before the season starts. Without further ado, man, this was a tough pick. I picked Caleb Williams to win Offensive Rookie of the Year. And the reason he finished so low, I believe, is not necessarily because he had a bad year, but because so many other players had good years. This was just an insane draft class in general. And especially at the quarterback position like you

have a quarterback who threw for 20 touchdowns over 3 000 yards and six interceptions and by the way most most uh most uh most passing yards most passing yards for a Bears rookie in franchise history, if this was, let's say, the 2000, let's say it's the 2022 draft class, like that one, I think that one, if Caleb Williams was drafted there, he would have been offensive rookie of the year. I'm saying he's not necessarily bad, but boy, Jaden Daniels had an all-timer. My prediction might have been worse. I chose Marvin Harrison Jr. out of the Ohio State University,

went to the Cardinals. You know, and that's my fault. I thought Kyler Murray was going to be competent. I was wrong. And to be fair, the reason that I, by the way, and it's not my second pick was any better. My second pick was Bill Williams. The reason I ended up not going with him is because, and I remember I i said i was concerned about his coaching you know about the coaching staff in chicago and i was right about that please give me a pity dollar or something i don't know but but yeah but then again clothes only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades and this is a podcast about football so so it doesn't really mean anything now does it

and what went wrong for Marvin Harrison Jr. is that there's like I mean don't get wrong he's good he's still like 800 yards I think like seven touchdowns or eight touchdowns which is good it's just that there's like no chemistry between him and Kyler Murray and I mean obviously I don't know if it's his fault. I don't know if it's Murray's fault. But for some reason, Murray just loves Greg Adorch instead. I think it's probably because they're both short. But we'll never really know for sure. I'm hoping that they can be better. But the fact that Marvin Harrison Jr. technically wasn't even the best rookie receiver this year,

probably the fourth behind Brian Thomasrian thomas malik neighbors and lad mcconkey kind of sucks but but then again just once again like you gotta wonder if it's a chemistry thing so maybe he bounces back next year maybe he doesn't no one knows that's the fun i'd like to think that it would be a good bounce back next year you know i'd like to think so too but i don't know can kyler murray actually put in the effort to create some chemistry instead of creating a new skin on call of duty i don't know man i mean forget the chemistry part like he's just gonna fucking toss like when we're talking about marvin harrison jr we were talking about him as the top wide receiver prospect of the last 10 years.

What if he's more than Harrison's, like his dad's stats, though? His rookie year? Similar. Yeah, they're like creepily the same. Almost like they're the same. 836 receiving yards, 64 receptions, and eight touchdowns. But he also had Peyton Manning throwing them the ball. Well, back then, though, you got to remember,

Peyton Manning didn't start out as great because his O-line was terrible, and that dude got killed. Yep. I don't know. But hopefully history repeats itself. Moving on to our defensive rookie of the year, Jared Verse. I think that this is a good choice. This really could have been a toss up. CJ mentioned last night,

like Quinn, Yon Mitchell and Cooper Dajin would have also been very good picks for defensive rookie of the year. And I mean, rightfully so, but Jared verse was just an all around dog game in and game out this season. Um,

pardon me. I'm like trying to find his stats because I was a dumb ass and didn't originally have them up already, but overall extremely impressive season. I mean, you even look at the divisional round playoff game and Jared verse was talking his shit and he backed it talking his shit about uh about philadelphia and then backing it up um of course now the stats are giving me

okay regular season numbers it was originally giving me postseason numbers uh jared verse was fourth fifth on his team and uh total tackles at, four and a half sacks, no interceptions, two forced fumbles, two fumble recoveries, a pretty successful rookie season for a young linebacker. And there's another guy on this team that's probably going to end up being very good for years to come. And I wouldn't be surprised if he gets himself around 100 tackles next season. Anyways, your guys' thoughts and who your preseason predictions were. We're just going to end up apologizing for every pick we've made for the preseason

and trying to explain ourselves. But I picked Dallas Turner. And it's not like he – as far as edge rushers go, this wasn't, this didn't end up being the best draft, and Dallas Turner is fine, so eight, eight assisted tackles, 12 solo tackles, three tackles for loss, five quarterback hits. He had just three sacks. Maybe this is just a developmental year going into the next season. It's very rare that you see edge rushers who have genuinely bad rookie years. There's a little development, but it usually doesn't go into anything. So maybe Dallas Turner turns it around. He doesn't have the lightning quick start that we thought he would, at least that I thought he

would. And I did predict that it was going to be an edge rusher. I said that before. I went back and listened to the episode from the preseason. I said, don't be surprised if it's another one. But I also did, I didn't, I didn't give it to Jared Burse. I gave it to Dallas Turner. So this is, this is what I picked. So that's okay. That is just okay. I picked Terry on Arnold of the lions and don't get me wrong. He was good when he wasn't committing like hold after hold after hold i mean terry on arnold like i said like well he's good it's just he's

literally sauce gardner if you know they actually called penalties against him and that's annoying and you know my thought process at the time was that, you know, he's actually going to be starting. He was my favorite corner prospect. He'll come and have a good school in Alabama. Seemed to be pro-ready, paired up with a good defensive coordinator in Aaron Glenn. And, yeah, I mean, he was good. It's just, you know, he wasn't defensive rookie of the year good.

To be fair, I did like jared verse versus my second pick and if you recall correctly verse was my favorite edge rusher prospect in the 2024 draft so i have that at least but still either way verse was deserved i mean you could have gone quinn young mitchell but i feel like the lack of interceptions is might have been what hurt him because i don't think he had any in the regular season i think he was two in the postseason and you know they're gonna you know sometimes you know they'll throw that uh uh that uh what's that straw man that red herring at you of erm when someone's really good they don't target him which is something that I tend not to believe. But still, I mean, he would have been good either way.

Mitchell, I mean. But versus well-deserved. To give you guys an idea of how good this season has been for Pat Sertan, let's look at him matched up against some big-time receivers around the NFL. Jamar Chase, three receptions, 27 yards. T. Higgins. I'm sorry, did you say Sertan? Yeah,

Sertan matched up with these receivers. Yeah, but we're talking about Defensive Rookie of the Year. Yeah, we're talking about rookies. I was getting ahead of myself. I'm sorry. Pat Sertan, named named defensive player of the year. Um, this is pretty well-deserved.

Uh, so in terms of PFF grade, uh, 87.4 coverage grade first among cornerbacks, uh, most valuable DB per PFF war, um, coverage grade first among cornerbacks uh most valuable db per pff war um is matchups against other uh receiver against receivers this season against jamar chase three catches 27 yards uh t higgins uh five routes one catch seven yards brock bauer six catch, six routes, one catch, nine yards. Against Mike Evans, he was on

him for 24 routes, one catch, eight yards. Garrett Wilson, two catches, 22 yards on 28 routes. DK Metcalf, three catches, 29 yards. Drake Lundin held him to Zilch. Darnell Mooney, Zilch, that's not that impressive. Darnell Mooney's a bum. Um, but just to give you an idea of how good he did this season, how just completely locked down he was at that point. Um, and already he's getting comparisons to Champ Bailey, uh, another former Broncos legend, uh, who should have won defensive player of the year in 2006 with 10 interceptions. Patrick Tan versus Champ Bailey's first four seasons in the NFL.

Both three-time Pro Bowlers. Champ Bailey, one second-team All-Pro, and that's it. Patrick Tan, two-time first-team All-Pro and now defensive player of the year. And Champ Bailey's first ballot Hall of Famer shows how impressive Pat Sertan, two-time first-team All-Pro and now Defensive Player of the Year. And Champ Bailey, first-fellow Hall of Famer. Shows how impressive the start of Sertan's career is. That was a tweet from Zach Stevens. And already just an impressive start to his career in general.

Three-time Demaryius Thomas Team MVP. College Football National Champion. SEC Defensive Player of the Year. Unanimous All-american first team all SEC uh his last year in college um yeah basically the point being a well-deserved uh defensive player of the year nod to Patser Tan thoughts from you fellas and what did you guys have in the preseason? Well, I was actually shocked that this wound up being the guy. I'm not saying it's not deserved, but I'm just saying the way that voting ends up going, it usually favors the edge rusher. And to support my point, in the last basically 25 years, there's only been, outside of Sertan, there's only been Stephon Gilmore in 2019 and Charles Woodson in 2009 to get the awards. So it's very rare that a corner nowadays gets it.

And I'm not saying that a corner shouldn't, because the job of corner is extremely important nowadays, especially with how explosive wide receivers get. I'm just shocked that a corner just got it this year. I'll go a step further on you, Adam. There was one stat that I saw at one point this season that was basically saying that you would have a better QBR if you just threw the ball into the dirt rather than throwing it sirtan's way yeah see i'm not saying he doesn't deserve it he had an incredible year i'm just surprised

you mentioned the voters i'm surprised the voters came to their senses i'll phrase it that way you you mentioned the last 25 years as well in the terms of like it's always been an edge rusher besides uh gilmore and uh uh charles woodson and was there another name that you said as well or were those the only two uh it was those two yeah a lot of genders who was a db but db you could be that if you're playing everywhere i think you'll become you you become a bit of an exception. Yeah. A lot of discourse, like you search up the name Pat Sertan on X or Twitter, whatever the hell you want to call it.

A lot of discourse of how infuriating it is that Sertan got defensive player of the year and Champ Bailey didn't in 2006. And Champ Bailey deb it in 2006, and Champ Bailey debatably had much better coverage stats, 10 interceptions in 2006, and he lost it to Jason Taylor, who had 13.5 sacks that season. So I'm just saying the voting usually favors the edge rusher, and I was expecting T.J. Watt or Miles Garrett to win it and I was low-key I was low-key hoping that TJ Watt would get it this year so I'll give you my

pick I thought it was going to be Nick Bosa and he had another down year he continued to regress I thought he would get better he actually got a little worse again. He was still good. When you have nine sacks, then you're still a really good edge rusher. Just by Nick Bosa guidelines, just by every single quarterback hits, tackles for loss, overall tackles, everything for him was worse. That's still really good though. Everything he did was good. What I wanted was T.J. Watt, and the reason I wanted T.J. Watt was because he was leading in betting odds, and he wasn't the sack leader. And what do you hear from Steelers fans all the time about T.J. Watt? It's that because T.J. Watt almost every single year is the league leader in sacks, he should be the defensive player of the year. If he wasn't the lead sack guy this year, and he got the award, I want to hear what Steelers

fans' response would be to that. Are you consistent? Do you believe that T.J. Watt deserves this award now? Because technically, it should be Miles Garrett, who has more. But I'll say Sertan, well-deserved. Corners are starting to matter more, and the voting showed it this year. So great stuff. Yeah. TJ, your pick? Ugh.

I went with uh tj watt you know because i figured you know coming off the injury he was gonna have a chip on his shoulder and to be fair that night i think he was like the slight bear i think he was like only like negative 100 or something and certainertan was like plus 150. We were close, kids. We were this close. Alas, no cigar. Basically, TJ Watt, I don't even think had a tackle in the last three games

and that's really what hurt him. Like Adam said, two games. I just looked up up it's two games he didn't have a tackle against the ravens in the playoffs didn't have a tackle against the bangles uh last game of the season uh but he did have three tackles on christmas against uh kansas city um but if we're going all totality he's he had three games where he didn't record a single tackle. Yeah. Yeah, that'll get you. And I feel like the fact that he kind of just petered out at the end of the year is really what killed him.

But Sertan, it was well-deserved. And even if Watt did get it and I could sit here and say, her, yeah, I got it right, I still probably would have said that Sertan deserved it infinitely more. And I'm glad because, you know, like Adam said, you know, corners are starting to matter. And that's really nice, like that in and of itself. Because, you know, they say he joins Woodson and Gilmore as the only one to, like, actually get it.

And the Champ Bailey comps, I think, are well-deserved. But, yeah. And also, TJ Watt was battling injury throughout the year so i mean that sucks but i mean it is what it is it is well deserved these things are impossible to predict that's all that's really it yeah i have one so i mentioned that it i just mentioned the 21st century for corners winning defensive player of the year. Yeah. The last one before the one I mentioned, which was, it was 2009,

Charles Woodson. The last one before then was Deion Sanders. So three, that's, Patrick Tann is the third cornerback in the last 30 years to win defensive player of the year. Corner is a position that matters and everyone cares about, but clearly not enough to give him awards. Something I've noticed. Yeah.

It's unfortunate, but yeah. I think it also is probably going to start translating more to how the game is starting to get away. I feel like the game is going to start getting more to how the game is starting to get away. I feel like the game is going to start getting away from all this passing as well. CJ and I were talking about it on Tuesday. It's like Adam, you remember Mel Kiper

bitching and moaning about the too high safety and how it should be illegal in the NFL? Yeah, I remember. That was so stupid. Yeah. Then we got into the conversation about how Mahomes and the Chiefs end up just, I mean, they kind of just utilize how teams take away the deep ball

and they just game manage the entire time anyways. That can be a question for our suit or a topic for our super bowl preview uh offense player of the year saquon barkley i don't think there could have been any other name to throw out there probably the only other one would have been jamar chase but when you have 2 000 yards rushing you don't even need to tell me what the touchdown numbers were. 2,000 yards rushing, you deserve to be Offensive Player of the Year. Simple as that. And obviously, these are regular season awards, not playoff or full season into the playoffs.

But Jesus Christ, even what he's doing in the playoffs is ridiculous. But Barkley, 2,000 yards, 13 rushing touchdowns. The fact that Jalen Hurts has more rushing touchdowns than Saquon Barkley pisses me the fuck off. Anyways, 17, 20-plus yard rushing plays. Longest carry was 72 yards. He averaged 5.8 yards per carry. Come on now.

125.3 yards per game. The only other player, like I said, the only other two you could throw out there, throw a hat in, is Jamar Chase and Derrick Henry, but not even close. This was Saquon Barkley by a landslide. Another pick from the preseason that makes me want to put a bag over my head, but I took Bijan Robinson.

I thought Raheem Morris was going to be a much better coach than we thought he would be. Raheem Morris was talking nonstop during the preseason about how they're going to Cousins play so poorly that they had to bench him for their rookie quarterback? None of those, yeah, none of those things came to fruition but looking at what Saquon Barkley did, I can't believe we didn't even consider for this guy to be our offensive player of the year. I mean, playing behind the best offensive line in all of football,

one of the best passing attacks, to keep defenses honest, no stacking the box on Saquon like they were constantly against the Giants. This was the perfect environment for Saquon to succeed in and he did everything that we thought he would that he could do and more everything that we knew Saquon had the potential to do his entire career he was able to do this year and if he played in week 17 he probably would have had the all-time rushing record for a single season. So, unbelievable year, and he deserves to be in a Super Bowl. If there's any running back who deserves a ring right now, I mean, Saquon has to be near the top of the list

with all the BS that he went through in San Francisco. New York, you mean. What did I say? San Francisco. I said no. No? What do you mean? What did I say? San Francisco. I said no. No? What do you mean no? You literally did. How can you gaslight us like that?

I don't know what you're talking about. Oh, please. There's no way I said San Francisco, Johnny. You said San Francisco, CJ. Yes, you did. I'm actually not joking. You did. It happens. Don't worry about it. Anyway, extra effort to happen. Holy crap. Oh, it'll be fine. The New York Giants. Yeah. You know what I was thinking about? I was thinking about the San Francisco Giants with Christian,

the San Francisco 49ers with Christian McCaffrey. He also deserves it. So does Derek Henry. Go. So my pick was C.D. Lamb, who last season, you know, the season which made me think he was going to do this, had 135 catches, led the league, 1,749 yards and 12 touchdowns.

This year, he was still good. He had 101 catches, 1,194 yards, but only six touchdowns this year he was still good he had 101 catches 1194 yards but only six touchdowns uh yeah look i know i'm gonna sound like i'm making excuses but we all know why he didn't uh he didn't do better because back prescott got injured and the Cowboys, you know, just something like that revolving door of quarterbacks. Honestly, the fact that he still got six touchdowns and over a thousand yards is insane.

I mean, is it not like he, I mean, granted some of his best games, you know, did come later down the stretch, you know, when things really didn't matter anymore and they were still eliminated, but, but either way, it's just, you know, come later down the stretch you know when things really didn't matter anymore

they were still eliminated but but either way it's just you know it's just it sucks you know knowing that he probably would have been in the running had Dak not get hurt but either way Jamar Chase won the triple crown Saquon won for 200 yards just Saquon is the clear favorite but yeah I picked CeeDee Lamb never again if he wins year, though, I'm actually going to be livid. Yeah, I mean, it doesn't help when your starting quarterback gets hurt a quarter of the way into the season, and then CeeDee also got hurt at the end of the season as well. It's a recipe for disaster if you're a betting man.

But we're going to take a quick break. When we get back, we're going to get into the last three awards, the comeback player of the year, coach of the year and MVP. And yeah, this is the former Ruski podcast. It may not have always showed it in the stat sheet, but you can see him making throws when he needs to make the throws back to

back games where he has three touchdowns. Someone's got to get that six or seven spot he's an elite wide receiver as a rookie truly a lose-lose scenario for both sides this is the pomerouski podcast i'm chris kostich adam Adam Wright, CJ Medeiros. Comeback player of the year, Joe Burrow. Well-deserved. No one else I would have put in the comeback of the year slot, honestly. Literally nobody else. Led the league in touchdowns, passing yards, only through nine interceptions. I mean, if the Bengals made the playoffs,

he would have been downright the guy for NFL MVP. But, I mean, this alone is just ridiculous in itself. He literally was the entire offense for Cincinnati. It's a shame that the defense couldn't hold its water, but. Yeah, Burrow was insane this season. Also fourth or not fourth. What am I saying? He ended up being.

Yeah, he was fourth in terms of completion percentage as well. Yards per game, he was first. He was first in a lot of categories. That's basically the easiest way to say that. And that's why he got Comeback Player of the Year. What do you guys have for Comeback Player of the Year and your thoughts on Joe Burrow. Yeah.

Adam, you're, you're an idiot for choosing your comeback player of the year. I can tell you that much. Listen, I was intrigued by a future hall of fame quarterback coming back from Achilles tear. I figured if he had a great season, then he would be a slam dunk,

but he did not. He was the jets sparkled their black magic dust all over him and his Achilles, which is probably how he tore it in the first place. But, yes, during the preseason, don't make me say it again, I picked Aaron Rodgers to win comeback player of the year. And this guy played so poorly. The Jets don't want him back on the team, even though they plan to have him on for multiple years.

He was so bad that Rodgers is considering retirement. He was so bad that his buddies we brought on the team, the Jets, no longer won on the team. He was so bad that Robert Sala was fired as a head coach. And Joe Douglas. Joe Douglas was also fired as their general manager. So, yeah, I picked him for comeback player of the year. And this is another pick that I'm having to explain for myself. Good roster, I thought.

Future Hall of Fame quarterback, I thought, you know what? The Jets might be good just for a couple years. Couldn't have been more wrong. I was thinking Brett Favre on the Vikings. Turns out we got Brett Favre on the Jets. So that was fun. Now, even worse, you got Aaron Rodre on the Jets. So, that was fun. Now, even worse, you got Aaron Rodgers on the Jets.

Well, that sucks. I mean, that just... I'm sorry, man. It just... I didn't pick up. I mean, look, coming off an Achilles tear at that age where I was already seeing a decline in his abilities. No. And I know what you're thinking.

Oh, but new scenario, new surroundings. Yeah, the Jets. No. No. Bad. Shame. Not you, just Aaron Rodgers in general. I mean, I get the allure, but me, I picked

Joe Burrow. This is the one thing I got right, America, and honestly, I'm fine. I'm fine. As long as I got one right, that's super. But, yeah, I did pick Joe Burrow just because, you know, I knew that he was going to be playing with T. Higgins and Jamar Chase, a pair of motivated receivers that are looking for a new contract. Whether or not they get it, of course, higgins is to be determined but you know then chase the bangles still miles apart

but hey let's enjoy this for now huh joe burrow statistically was the best quarterback in the nfl led the league in passing yards passing touchdowns and chris and i said these before the show and chris mentioned it too burrow if the bangles made the playoffs you know if the defense decided to actually exist instead of being a little bastard about it uh if bangles make the playoffs then burrow is probably mvp you know that sucks you know because mvp should be stat driven and people say otherwise or subhuman and i don't like them no i'm kidding everyone can have their own opinion but but yeah either or, I'm just glad I got it right because what a comeback it was.

Unfortunately, the defense sold them out. It was so bad, the NFL honors host Snoop Dogg even had to make a joke about it. Nice. Anything else about Burrow or we're good to move on he is i'd like to point out that he's he's actively trying to keep the his core together and i respect it and i think it's it's great that he wants to keep all of his talent there the problem is if you bring all of your guys back, then you'll only be able to bring all of your guys back. So, I mean, the front office, Cincinnati's front office needs to think about two things.

Number one, they need to think about obviously trying to put Joe Burrow in the best possible situation to win, which means retain a lot of his talent. A lot of it, not all of it. T. Higgins feels like more and more of a luxury guy the more I think about it. If they keep him, they will not have the money to build around him on defense, which sold him out. That defense is only like, let's say, 25% better. They're probably 12-5, and you let Joe Burrow in the playoffs, he'll do his magic. They may have to let one of them go. Yeah. Yeah, and on top of that, Burrow, I don't know if you heard, is apparently gearing up to take a pay cut.

I just want to remind everyone that doesn't matter because Burrow's first mistake is trusting Mike Brown to spend money. And Mike Brown, any Bengals fan will tell you, is notoriously one of the cheapest owners in the league. So you know what that means? Bye-bye, Higgins. Also, come to New England. Or not. It's really up to you.

Yeah. Sounds like he's taking a page out of Brady's book, which no surprise. Everyone should probably take a page out of Brady's book because a guy like Joe Burrow is going to make most of his money from endorsement deals anyway. Brady never asked for $200 million in a contract. True. That too.

And that's why Brady always had those good defenses because they were able to afford it because he didn't insist upon being the highest paid. So when they say, oh, is it because of him they had those good defenses? You can now say, yes, yes, it is. Kevin O'Connell, head coach of the year. No argument on this one at all. I mean, you went from shitting your pants, having to have Sam Darnold as your quarterback,

no J.J. McCarthy. Didn't really know what was going to happen with J.J. McCarthy during the season anyways. But you end up leading your team to a 14-3 record with Sam Darnold. Fantastic season. Unfortunately, first round bounce out, but this was a fantastic season for Kevin O'Connell. Adam, you're an idiot.

Once again, for thinking that I'm just going to say right now, Adam had Raheem Morris. Well, oh, CJ also, you did too you're both idiots for thinking that Raheem Morris was gonna turn the fucking Falcons around no I'm kidding honestly to be honest the Falcons it was just everything just went wrong for them

like obviously you have Kirk Cousins not playing up to his ability. A lot of things went completely different from what most people would have thought in Atlanta. The only constants really being Drake London and Bijon down there. Anyways, Kevin O'Connell,

fantastic offensive mind. He continues to just impress everybody. Should be interesting to see how the Vikings season goes for them next year, though. And on top of that, too, they also extended O'Connell as well. I mean, you basically just explained our picks for us. So do we even need to talk at this point? Hold on. I want to justify why i picked him at least

you may be fine with being called an idiot but i am not look i understand why they took o'connell i did even though he technically wasn't even the best coach in his own division which i get you know winning that many games with sam darnold and going to the playoffs is nothing short of impressive hats off to him. He has, you know, the, he has like the golden touch for people like Darnold, I guess he's got Rust Belt appeal.

He's got everything you want, but the reason at least I took more is, is because I tried to game the system. That's my fault. You see. Yeah. See, Adam's looking at me and Chris is snickering, but I'd like to explain.

The NFL coach of the year race is fundamentally backwards. And it's never who's the best coach. It's like nine times out of 10, it's like the best new coach. Because in reality, Andy Reid probably should have been a heavier favorite. Dan Campbell definitely should have been. Nick Sirianni as well. But the thing is, it's always about new coaches. It's always about the coach that can take a mediocre team to the playoffs

or a new coach that turns it around. Think about like D'Amico Ryans last year was he the best coach last year not by a long shot but you know he still got it because of how he turned around the Texans that was the best he won it last year huh Kevin Stefanski won it last year I thought oh right wait oh yeah that's right I thought or do you want or Stefanski won it the last two years I I'm pretty sure. Yeah. Wait, Ryans was the runner-up, right? Yeah, D'Amico Ryans was the runner-up. Stefanski won it because he took Joe Flacco to the playoffs. Yeah.

And beat D'Amico Ryans, but whatever. But yeah, sorry, I thought D'Amico Ryans won, but I knew it was close between the two. But yeah, so either way, how D'Amico Ryans was considered, I think Mike Rabel won it with the Titans. Didn't Matt Nagy even win it with the Bears? Yeah, I think so. Exactly.

So it's stuff like that. It's about new coaches. That's the whole point. And so I literally just try to game the system and say, all right, who's going to be a good new coach? Ah, Raheem Morris. However, I failed to realize, and this was on me, that the Atlanta Falcons are basically the personification of

their own tight end, Kyle Pitts. They flash their potential. They say, oh, he could be good, but we will forever be disappointed. All right. I'm just looking. So, I believe that it's not – so this is something that the MLB does as well,

but they don't just pick the coach of the year of the rookie coach. It's also the most surprising team as well. The one that just comes out and is usually bad, has been bad in recent years, but is good this year. The Atlanta Falcons, if they were good this year, if they made the playoffs, if they finished with 10-11 wins, that's everything that a coach of the year candidate would get. Kirk Cousins sucked this year.

Clearly, he doesn't have it anymore. His Achilles is clearly not better. He's in his upper 30s in age, and we thought that with modern-day medicine that he would be okay. Turns out we were wrong on that. And yes, also the coaching job was absolutely terrible. I mean, but it's like that sometimes. Yeah, kind of to respond to CJ's point though.

So you mentioned new coaches. So Kevin O'Connell, this is what, his third or fourth year. It's not his first year. Look at last year. Kevin Stefanski, he's been around the block for a few years. Brian Dable, he was with the Giants for a couple years prior. Mike Vrabel, one in 21. He had been the coach for the titans for four years at that point

uh stefanski won in 2020 i think that was his first year with the browns maybe 2019 i'm blanking on it right now but um i feel like it hasn't been like at least in the last five seasons now including this one it hasn't been who's been the best new coach, really, but more to Adam's point, it's been who's been the coach that has been able to succeed with a team that was expected to underperform. And that's basically what the Vikings did. I don't think anyone could have expected they'd get 14 wins. Look at the Stefanski teams.

No one thought that they were going to make playoff runs. Think of the Mike Vrabel Titans in 21. They made a little bit of a playoff run in that year before losing to the Bengals in the playoffs uh stuff like that um but yeah josh allen nfl mvp now here's where we get into the meated potatoes of everyone bitching and moaning about the nfl honors um if you're a lamar jackson, you say that he had the better stats. He had the better stats, and that's why he should have won. Okay, cool.

I feel like the NFL MVP also shouldn't be losing to teams like the Raiders, the Browns. Look at Josh Allen and who he had on his team and compare that to who Lamar Jackson had on his team. Yeah, Josh Allen didn't have as good of passing stats, but when you look at the stats in all totality, Josh Allen did way more with way less, way less. And also, if we're going to throw the stats argument into play,

then Josh Allen should have won MVP last year instead of Lamar because Josh Allen had the better stats last year if we want to play that game. So, Josh Allen, your fiance's hot. Congratulations. You are now an NFL MVP, and hopefully that translates into some actual winning for Buffalo. Adam, your thoughts. Lamar, Josh Allen, and who'd you have for your NFL MVP prediction?

One thing I can appreciate about the NFL honors as far as, so as far as the Associated Press's gauging on NFL MVP, one thing I can appreciate is definitely that they're consistent. And I'm not saying I agree with their criteria, but what you're going to notice is one constant is that out of two leading MVP candidates, the higher seed almost always gets it. And I think that's something that is deeply flawed. I disagree with that logic. I don't think playoff seeding should have that much deeply flawed. I disagree with that logic. I don't think seating should have, playoff seating should have that much of an impact on who wins the award.

That's basically just, it tells me you're a front runner. It tells me best player on the best team, which is not what the award is about. It's not about best player. It's about most valuable player. Lamar Jackson. He may be, he may have had better statistics, but I also think he was more valuable, simply because he was carrying a little bit worse of a team in some ways. The team underachieved in some ways and still managed to make its way up to win their own division.

As far as the Bills, they kind of cruised the entire time. They didn't struggle all that much. When it comes to Josh Allen, he kind of fits the criteria of a lot of our past few MVP winners. The best player on the best team. Again, something I disagree with, but Aaron Rodgers was the best player on the best team in 2021. Tom Brady was the most valuable player in 2021, in my opinion. In 2022, Patrick Mahomes was the best player on the best team. Probably also most valuable. Doesn't always mean you have a high seed,

so therefore your player can't be valuable. 2023, Lamar Jackson, the best player on the best team. Probably should have been somebody else. And you can name a lot of – it was a weak MVP class, I'll grant you. But Josh Allen had 15 more total touchdowns than Lamar Jackson last year and 400 more yards. So I'm sorry. Based on the criteria that the Associated Press has been applying,

Josh Allen gets MVP this year. That's the way it's gone. They've been consistent with this. I'll go a step further, too. We bring up the stats, and you could even say the same thing as last year, that Lamar did more with less last year compared to Josh Allen. And now this year, it's a complete 180. Right.

I lost my train of thought going from there. Sorry, I was just trying to pull off you. You're good. No, you gave me a – you bounced off my argument pretty well. I also made my point. CJ, do you think Josh Allen should have won it, should have gone to Lamar? Adam, who was your preseason pick, first of all?

I missed it. I thought I could dodge it, couldn't I? My preseason pick was CJ Stroud. I believe the Texans are going to be the best team. You had Tank Dell. You had Nico Collins. You had Stephon Diggs. You had, personnel-wise, what was one of the better offensive lines in the league.

It turns out that they became one of the worst from last season. Last season, they were pretty good of a unit. This year, the complete opposite. And a lot of it year, the complete opposite. And a lot of it was on the interior. I just don't know what to say there. I mean, I think C.J. Stroud even regressed a little bit. Everything that could go wrong went wrong.

The injury bug bit them. C.J. Stroud didn't have the leap from his rookie year that I thought he would have. Their offensive line completely 180'd in the worst way possible. If everything went the way I thought it would go, I think C.J. Stroud would have been an MVP candidate. In fact, probably would have won the award. I thought C.J. Stroud was the best player on the best team this year. Turns out it didn't work out that way.

So that's all I'll say about that. CJ, Josh Allen or Lamar? Yeah, Josh Allen or Lamar. And who was your preseason pick? All right. Now, look, I'm a stats guy. I long said the MVP should be a stats-driven award. People disagree.

It's about N, whatever, but it's cool. I mean, the only reason I say stats is because I think it should be a more diversified award because the MVP is basically, I call it the MVQB. It's Most Viable Quarterback. And then you have these people, these just awful, just oxygen-wasting nerds that are like, erm, erm, QB's most valuable position. It's like, okay, well then don't break a hand jacking yourself, you absolute clown. Sorry, I hate those people. These people are a drain on our society, but I digress. I agree with that argument. I agree with that argument.

I agree with that argument. Not all positions, unfortunately with the NFL, not all positions are created equal. You can hate me if you want. Drain. Not all positions are created equal. There's one. Get him. This is an unfortunate fact about the NFL.

Not all positions are created equal. Every once in a blue moon, a running back could do it because sometimes they are the most valuable player on that offense. Usually the high-powered offense is the team that is able to win a lot of games nowadays. But it ends up being the quarterback. That's just the nature of the sport. Honestly, if you were to cut Jalen Hurts' rushing touchdowns in half and give them to Saquon Barkley, then Saquon Barkley's winning NFL MVP.

It's good, but it's hard to just cut. Yeah, and either way, it's also about these arbitrary things like playoffs, too, because we should be talking about joe burrow who by the way was my mvp pick because statistically he was the best quarterback in the league and and even still the statistics thing should have been lamar yeah but to be fair last year it should have been josh allen it was lam. So in the words of one of the greatest thinkers of our time, Thanos, no, I'm kidding. That's a joke. Perfect and balanced is all things should be because that's what it is. And now if you're a Ravens fan, your rhetoric is now being put to the test because when Lamar won, you had all these Ravens fans saying, erm, erm, stats aren't everything, you know.

And now, congratulations, your point has been proven. Turns out stats aren't everything. And now they're saying, well, it should have been Lamarie and better stats. I just think the duality is very funny. But yeah, honestly, it probably should have been Lamar, like I said, just because he was technically better. And I think should be statue of that's just my personal philosophy i think yeah a good big part of it um i will grant you if if if the bengals made the playoffs he would be my playoff he'd be my suit he'd be my mvp pick too and this is part of why i think

that voting is flawed they put too much into playoff seeding and not enough on just solely the fact that they made the playoffs in spite of having an imperfect team. This is one of the worst defenses I've ever seen a Bengals franchise field, and they still somehow finished 9-8 and very nearly made the playoffs. That should be MVP worthy. But they don't do it that way, and that's wrong, I disagree with it. I think it should be a blend of a lot of things. That's all.

Yeah. No, completely agree. I mean, it should be a blend of a lot of things. And I think that, I mean, we really haven't had this much discourse about NFL MVPs. I would say in the last four years, we have had more discourse about NFL MVPs probably ever. And like there used to be a time where like Patrick Mahomes would get 50 touchdowns in 2018 and he was clear cut NFL MVP. No one had a problem with it.

2019 Lamar Jackson, NFL MVP. Nobody had a problem with it. Tom Brady,. No one had a problem with it. 2019, Lamar Jackson, NFL MVP. Nobody had a problem with it. Tom Brady, 2017. Nobody had a problem with it. 2016, Matt Ryan. Slight problem with it, but Tom Brady played in four fewer games. Cam Nguyen, nobody had a problem with it. You go down the list, like, there's really,

you can't really make too much of an argument against certain players. Besides the last four or five years. I only, I only, I only give you, I only give you a little bit of hesitation for 2017 because low key, the only reason Tom Brady got it was because carson wentz got hurt that too yes yes yeah also either way and wench even if when stayed healthy he

shouldn't have gotten mvp like i don't understand why the great unwashed masses literally had such a hard time understanding that but i digress all right let's go brady was better even at the time it was closer but brady was still better like the team was better like the you know record i believe was better statistically he was better so like i i don't know well if you look at the stats it's it's a little bit more slightly in favor towards Tom Brady. Yeah. We're going to take one last break. When we come back, we're going to look at the Hall of Fame class of 2025.

That was just announced last night. This is the Fulmer Whiskey Podcast. It may not have always showed it in the stat sheet, but you can see him making throws when he needs to make the throws. Back-to-back games where he has three touchdowns. Someone's got to get that six or seven spot. He's an elite wide receiver as a rookie. Truly a lose-lose scenario for both sides.

This is the Pomeranian podcast by Power 88 Dean Radio. Sickro up and consulting Chris Kostich, CJ Medeiros, Adam Wright. Our last segment of the day, By Power 88, Dean Radio, Seek to Grow Up and Consulting, Chris Kostich, CJ Medeiros, Adam Wright. Our last segment of the day, Hall of Fame Class of 2025. Sterling Sharp, Antonio Gates, Eric Allen, Jared Allen, all names last night to the Hall of Fame. Sterling Sharp was probably the most touching one. Shannon Sharp was the one that knocked on his door and told him, you're in.

You are in. And Sterling Sharp is one of those cases of, man, if only he never had to deal with these injuries because he would potentially be considered a top five wide receiver of all time. In seven seasons, over 8,000 yards, 8,100 yards, 65 touchdowns, started in every single game that he played in. Five-time pro bowler, three-time all pro, almost 600 catches. And there's another stat too. He is one of three receivers to have 8,000 yards

and over 60 touchdowns in seven seasons. But Antonio Gates, yeah, Antonio Gates. Yeah. About damn time. Uh, Antonio Gates. Well-deserved. Uh,

he was an absolute menace. Not, not even a football player either. He was a basketball player that transitioned to the NFL, uh, which makes that even crazier to think about. Uh, Eric Allen, amazing corner in the nineties,

early two thousands. Uh, yeah. Jared Allen, amazing corner in the 90s, early 2000s. Yeah, Jared Allen, same thing. Unbelievable career for him with the Chiefs and the Vikings. One of the cooler personalities in the league as well. But I think everyone is more thinking about, finally, Sterling Sharp is in the hall. And it's been well over 20 years that it's taken for him to actually get inducted. So God bless America.

We're on the right path. Nature is healing. Yes. Yeah, I mean, you took the words right out of my mouth as far as Sterling Sharp on Green Day. Unbelievable season. It's about time he made it in. Rather unbelievable career. Just, I can't believe it took this long.

Because it just felt like the consensus belief was that Sterling Sharp belongs in the Hall of Fame. But it's taken so long. It's about time. Yeah. I mean, Sterling Sharp took long enough. Gates has a case to be in first ballot. And honestly, Allen and the other Allen are, you know, worth it as well. It's kind of a weirdly small class. Like, it's really only four players, which is weird.

And I kind of get Luke Kuechly not being first ballot. You know, didn't play nearly long enough. You know, once again, injuries, that sucks. Eli Manning, I know a lot of people are shocked he didn't get in first ballot but I'm not he's another one where I've mentioned this before about quarterbacks that have these great stats where we have to talk about are you a good quarterback or did you just play for a long time? Because people said, well, Eli is top 10 in everything. But the thing is, how many years was he considered a top five quarterback? He's never been top five statistically once.

He's always been fringe top 10. And a lot of his stats have been more due to longevity than to him putting up 4,500 yards and 35 touchdowns a year. It's more like him being around 3,900 to 4,000 a year, but doing it consistently. And his entire resume, if you think about it, it's two games where his team, guys like Michael Strahan and David Tyree, were able to carry him to a Super Bowl.

And I firmly believe he could probably put most people in his shoes and do that. And a lot of people disagree. Adam's giving me a look. He disagrees. But my immediate counterpoint is, Adam, I don't care. This is the truth. And should he be in on stats alone? Yeah. And don't get me wrong. I believe in his career for games, he's like 117-117. So he's exactly 500. He's very good. But I'm sorry. Solely because of the two Super Bowls, you got to let him in. However, accolade-wise, he should not have been first ballot.

And I'm glad a lot of people see that. A lot of people are upset. But then again, a lot of people see that a lot of people are upset but then again a lot of people are stupid and uh as far as some of the other goes it makes sense that Marshawn Lynch would have to you know wait a year some of the linemen like Marshall Yonda you know that does make sense but uh yeah I mean they're all going to get it eventually it's just low-key though I think that a Terry got robbed NFL legend, best kicker of all time, four rings through New England,

both indie just played at such a high level for so long. Come on, get that man in the hall. But other than that, I don't really have any complaints. Him and Gus, Gus Gasky is going to be up for the hall of fame next year as well. Along with Edelman.

Look, you know, i love the pats but gustowski and edelman low-key i think are all very good because like don't get me wrong julian ellman's one of the greatest players in the postseason like of all time but come on also gustowski's peak was like really short. The warning signs came in 2015. He was really good in 2016, 2017 onward. Oh, it just got ugly.

He was also dealing with a hip injury for part of that as well. From what I remember, he missed that extra point in the AFC championship game in 2015. He just got the yips. He was literally never the same. He came around in 2016, but after that, I don't know. I just don't think his peak was long enough. Yeah.

Yeah, I will say that. Yeah, Eli Manning definitely. I'm really unbothered by the fact that he wasn't first ballot. If he was first ballot, I'd be okay i get it it's basically it's solely off the fact that this guy the best teams brought the best out of this guy his postseason success alone makes him a shoe in so whether it's next bat like next year's ballot or it was this year's i'm really unbothered. He's going to make it in. He's got to. I'm not saying he should be first ballot.

I'm just saying I'm unbothered either way. He's going to get in either way. Yeah. First time eligibles for the Hall of Fame next year. Larry Fitzgerald, Drew Brees, Phillip Rivers, Jason Witten, Frank Gore, Julian Edelman, Marquise Pouncey, LaShawn McCoy, Thomas Davis, Greg Olson, Alex Smith, Des Bryant, Stephen Gaskowski, Gino Atkins, David DeCastro, Mike Pouncey, Sean Lee, Todd Gurley, and Jarrell Casey. You really snuck in Sean Lee, Alex Smith, and Todd Gurley. I didn't sneak them in. I didn't sneak them in.

Adam Schefter snuck them in. No, no, no. Schefter, I love you, but no, no, no, no, no. Also, no Diddy just in case. But really, Alex Smith. And look, I love Todd Gurley girley but once again another one where just injuries suck man his peak wasn't nearly long enough sean lee another one just too injured uh and honestly you guys know based when i say off camera i'm not really crazy about philip rivers

going in he's another one where it's just all very good but you know and oh yeah you're all Hall of Very Good. And I already hear all six Chargers fans getting mad at me. But, yeah. I think Rivers deserves it, but the problem is that I think this is, like you said, potentially Hall of Very Good, and I think Rivers is going to be a guy that we won't see him in the Hall of Fame. Eventually. Yeah, maybe like 10 or 15 years down the road.

Yeah, because I'm going to tell you this right now if eli did not get in first ballot then philip rivers really shouldn't yeah yeah and oh i just want to point out he had better weapons than eli too yep he had better stats better weapons but eli as much as i think he's overrated, did beat him where it mattered. So if Eli does not get in first ballot, then Rivers should not be even in consideration. Breeze, on the other hand, you already know how I, and especially Adam, feel about dome quarterbacks.

Gerberese is a shoe in first ballot, man. He should. I know why, but. Larry Fitzgerald is too. Those are two. Larry better make it. No one had to deal with more nonsense than he did. Don't quarterback or not.

He had the stats and she deserves to be a first ballot Hall of Famer. Same thing with Larry Fitzgerald. Having more tackles than drops in your entire career is insane. Also great personality. Considered one of the nicest guys in the league during his time. Leader on and off the field. It'd be a shame if we weren't talking about Larry Fitzgerald as class of 2026 this time next year. But that's all the scheduled content that we have for today.

Anything else you guys want to touch on? Honestly, go like the, all the podcast posts. If you're listening. Yeah, that'd be really nice. You know,

we were making a little bit of money off us now. So every little bit helps and go subscribe on Instagram too. That'd be very nice. We were making a little bit of money off us now, so every little bit helps. Go subscribe on Instagram, too. That'd be very nice, very generous. Subscribe to Instagram, YouTube. Yeah. Please and thank you. Well, I can't wait for our

Super Bowl special tomorrow. Yeah, Super Bowl special tomorrow. We're going to have Eagles fan Mike Warren be a good friend of the show joining special tomorrow. Uh, we're going to have Eagles fan, Mike Warren be great. Good friend of the show. Uh, joining us tomorrow. Uh,

what time is that? Are we releasing that? We'll be releasing that, uh, tomorrow evening, tomorrow evening. We'll call it. We'll call it like four o'clock.

I don't know. Yeah. Yeah. Four o'clock. Yeah. Uh, so yeah, that'll do it for us here today on this friday episode

of the fumblers podcast of course super bowl special tomorrow uh at four o'clock we thank you for listening uh after tomorrow new episode on tuesday where we'll recap the super bowl uh tuesday at 7 30 be sure to subscribe to our YouTube channel. Also have all our episodes available on Spotify, Spreaker, Apple Podcasts, iHeartRadio, Google Podcasts, and so much more. Be sure to follow our Instagram, fumblerooski underscore podcast. Keep up with the pod and the latest coverage on the NFL. Otherwise, myself, Chris Kostich, Adam Wright, C.J. Medeiros,

the rest of the Fumblerouski universe, say so long. We'll see you tomorrow. Over and out.