The Game with Alex Hormozi - 80% of Your Customers Will Bankrupt You | Ep 477

Episode Date: December 27, 2022

Who is your customer? Today, Alex (@AlexHormozi) talks about the concept of 20% of customers spend 80% of the money, why researching and profiling your customer is incredibly important, and providing more valuable products customers consume because after all, the buying power lies within the customer.Welcome to The Game w/Alex Hormozi, hosted by entrepreneur, founder, investor, author, public speaker, and content creator Alex Hormozi. On this podcast you’ll hear how to get more customers, make more profit per customer, how to keep them longer, and the many failures and lessons Alex has learned on his path from $100M to $1B in net worth.Timestamps: (1:49) - Researching lets you know exactly who you choose to serve & who you choose not to(4:53) - The 4 steps to understanding your customer better(13:15) - Pick the people that we feel like we can serve the most and create the most value for(20:58) - People try and solve all of these other problems in the business rather than thinking(24:47) - Knowing your ideal customer journey forces patience(26:25) - Fortunes are created when we sell stuff that people won't stop giving us money forFollow Alex Hormozi’s Socials:LinkedIn | Instagram | Facebook | YouTube | Twitter | Acquisition

Note, there's a reason that companies that serve enterprise or Fortune 500 or Fortune 100 companies get the highest multiples when they sell. It's because those customers are the most valuable, and they stay the longest and pay the most. Serving a better customer makes you a better business. The wealthiest people in the world see business as a game. This podcast, The Game, is my attempt at documenting the lessons I've learned on my way to building Acquisition.com into a billion dollar portfolio. My hope is that you use the lessons to grow your business and maybe someday soon, partner with us to get to $100 million and beyond. I hope you share and enjoy. 80% of customers will bankrupt your business and keep you poor forever.

So here I was sitting in this conference where I was at the cool kids table because we had our software company, Allen, that just had crossed 10 million ARR, annual recurring revenue. And we got recognized for being awesome. And so I thought I was hot shit. And so applause died down. The host of the event gets up there and he's like, our next speaker is head of pricing and packaging at Vista, a $50 billion private equity fund. I was like, oh, I am poor and don't know what I'm talking about. And so the speaker got on stage and what he said changed how I saw selling and making money for the rest of my business career. So as soon as the speaker opened his mouth, I was like completely focused on what he's saying. I was like, what is this guy's secret for pricing and

packaging. And so he said, the way that Vista approaches acquiring a new company starts with its customer base first. And I was like, what are we talking about? I was thinking it must be marketing, must be sales, like how are they growing all these companies? And for context, their benchmark is they want to triple a business in three years. That's what they target to do. Triple in three. And they're buying multi-billion dollar businesses and trying to triple those type of businesses. And so the way they had to do it had to be smart. And so what they would do in the diligence process where they actually do research on the company before they buy them is they actually do more research on that business as customers than that business already had. So they would extract all the customer data

from a business they were going to buy, and then they would force rank every customer that business had ever sold since the beginning of time by who had been with them the longest and who had spent the most money. And then they would look at the customers that were in the top 20 percent and say, are there commonalities between what channels they can, came through similarities of industry, et cetera. And if there were, and that was not pulled out specifically by that business, they would acquire the business and then cut all acquisition channels that brought in the 80 percent and then looked at the acquisition channels that brought in the 20 percent that was the highest paying customers, and they would double down on that. And what I realized

was this was Pareto's principle, but on steroids. And so the typical concept is that 20 percent of customers spend 80% of the money. And so what they would do is say, okay, well, what if we had 100% of the customers being that 20%? If they accomplished that alone, they would already have 4xed the size of the business, accomplishing their tripling in three without even having to increase the volume of sales, but only by picking better customers to sell to begin with. After the speaker got off stage, I was completely shook because we were selling every single person at the time to get to about 1.7 million a month in six months in our software company. Anybody who had a credit card who said they wanted to do it, we would take them.

But what that resulted in was more customer churn, different customers with different desires and wants, which means we had to build different features into our product suite to service all these different people and differing margins based on the differing desires of the customers, which was bad. So I've been quoted by saying that the market that you serve is the most important lever on your business success because if you're selling toilet paper in COVID, it doesn't matter how good you are at marketing, how good you are at sales, how good you are branding, you're going to sell out. And so if you have a supply demand curve that's in your favor, you're going to win.

A subset of that concept with market being the most powerful is what slice of that market you go after. This is where you become more nuanced in exactly who you choose to serve and more importantly who you choose not to. because if you think about the definition of strategy, which is how you allocate limited resources against unlimited opportunities, this is a strategic decision. You have the opportunity to sell certain people and take their money, but because of your limited resources, you choose not to sell to those people. That is strategy. So after diving really deep in the process, I got it. 80-20, you sell more of the 20. If you sell four times more of the 20, you make a lot more money.

Got it. But how do I actually do that? And so I went really deep on this, reading lots of different SaaS Metrics book so I could come down to a simple process that I could apply to every single company in our portfolio at Acquisition.com. Now, at the time when I learned this, I only had three businesses, which was Prestige Labs, Jim Launch, and Allen. And I'll show you the four steps that we used and what happened after we implement this at Gym Launch. The first step is that you survey all of your existing customers, past and present. If you can't get the past ones to respond, at the very least, get the current customers to respond to the survey. To get as many people as possible to fill out the survey, force them to do it during live support calls that you have

with them. So you give it to all your reps and when they hop on with them, you have them fill out the survey live with them. And that way you can make sure they fill it out correctly and that every single person does it. If you don't have that many reps, you can get all of your customers on the next support call or whatever it is and you can do it all together at once live. And if you want to have even more engagement, give them a soft benefit for filling it out, some sort of bonus. An easy way to do that is to have some sort of content that might be exclusive or mini training or something like that that is very short but very tangible value and you give them that as a bonus just for completing it. On the survey, you want to ask every relevant detail that you want to know. And I'm explaining what those are in a second.

So first thing we ask on the survey is demographics. Who are they? Age, gender, political affiliation, geographic location. Are they single or divorced? Do they have a partner or multiple partners in their business? The second is before and after stats. So you can think about this from a business to business business or a business to consumer business. Either way it works.

So in a B2B business, it would be like revenue and profit before, revenue and profit after, number of employees before, number of employees after. They're churned before they started working with you. They're churn after. They're pricing before. They're pricing after. Every relevant metric, number of new clients, lifetime value. All of these things would be questioned that we would ask.

on the survey for the business stats or the personal stats. You can just think of this as results. The next is aspirations, which is, what do they actually want to have accomplished when they bought your thing? What was their envisionment of what job was to be done by you and the services or products you have that they hired you for? You'd be surprised by how different the answers might be. This will inform lots of stuff that I'll get to later.

The next is the buying process. Was there a specific trigger that caused them to buy? When they were thinking about the decision, what were the variables that they were considering, and what was the moment that they decided to do it? And what was that variable? Was there a specific testimonial they consumed? Was there a number of pieces of content they consumed? Was there a specific piece in general that they consumed that forced them or caused them to want to buy? Where did they see us first? Did someone refer them? These are all relevant questions so we can start getting an idea of who this person is. The second step is that you now sort by the customers who have spent the most money with you. So you have all the survey results. Step one. Step two is that you sort the results by the people who have spent the most with you. And for the purposes of this exercise, take the top 20% and ignore the rest. Step three, and this is the money part, is that you see what they have in common. And so the idea here is to find the fewest threads that they all share. Because ideally, if you could just find one thing that's a little bit weird that they all had, it massively narrows it down.

For example, they all said they were from a certain town. That would allow you to laser focus your messaging, your marketing, all on that town. If that was just the one thing that they all had in common, that would be amazing. That's not always the case. So oftentimes it's two or three things that they all share. And this is where going through, doing the boring work, reading every one of the responses of that 20% to see what are the needs they had, where do they come from, what is the business size? How old was the business? How old are they?

that you start to see common factors. Step four is that you execute against these new qualifiers. So there's two important things in the execution process. The first is how you speak. You will change all of your messaging to specifically talk to these three or four qualifiers that they all share. So you'll be really upfront with your new customer requirements and you'll be upfront in your marketing of who you serve

and who you do not serve. If you know that it's only people who are doing $20,000, a month out of Minnesota who are conservative leaning, you can do that and that becomes your new messaging. That means that everybody who's not in that bucket will be repelled by your marketing, but the people that are in that bucket will be even more magnetized towards you because now everybody up to this point came into your business by accident. Now they'll be becoming into your business by design. You'll also still catch some of the bad customers that you have before. This now means that you have to have a level of discipline, meaning if someone comes in and they're not from Idaho and they had $20,000

a month and politically leaning whatever way you want, you'd actually turn them down. And you say, sorry, you don't meet our requirements for becoming a customer. And that's because you did the math and you know that they're not worth it compared to these other customers that are worth three, four, five times more. The second step of execution is reverse engineering the sales process. You look at the reasons that the best customers said they bought and you look at where they came from. You increase the volume of effort on the channels that the best customers came in from, and then you look at the reasons that they chose to buy. What were the trigger events? What were the things that they consumed? What was the number of pieces of content? And then we start to try and

recreate the best customers buying experience rather than having happened on accident. Here's a little tip of why this makes you so much more money for no more work. You make far more money because of how much more valuable they are, not because of how much more valuable you are. But if you sell to a more qualified customer, you in a very real way can make them more money for the same work. So if I did CRO, so conversion rate optimization for an e-commerce business that was doing a million dollars a year, and I added 10%, they would go from $1 million a year to $1.1 million a year. Now, if I did that same work at a business that's doing $100 million year, they would go from $100 million to $110 million. So same work, I made $100,000 of value here. I made $10 million of value here.

who do you think I can charge more? This guy, which one was more work? Neither. They were the same work, but I get a hundred times the output. So it wasn't because of us, it's because of them. And so if we pick the right customers, we're able to charge significantly more, and it's because we really are in a real way providing more value. So usually at this point, I get the question, what if I have no customers? How can I do this survey and reverse segmentation of the customers to figure all this stuff out. Well, there's a reason that Y Combinator, one of the best startup incubators out there, picks founders who have past experience in the industry that they're trying to pursue. And that should make sense because there's a lot of depth of experience that just comes to rosmosis from being in an

industry for a long period of time. And rather than trying to have someone have this steep learning curve, it's better that they already know the industry lingo, the beliefs of that industry, and the common problems that that particular avatar is suffering from. So the fast track for somebody's new, so this is you who doesn't have any customers, just to start with an industry that you are new of something about. Most of us have at least some inside knowledge due to friends, our parents, what they did. You'd be amazed that if your father was a mechanic,

how much you know about cars just by growing up in a household where your father does a certain thing, right? Or if you had certain jobs growing up that were in certain industries, you'd be amazed at how much you know compared to somebody who wasn't in that industry. I know nothing about cars. But a friend of mine, his dad's mechanic,

He says all this stuff about cars, carburetor, whatever. I have no idea what he's talking about. But he thinks it's ridiculous that I don't know, but I just wasn't around that. Both my parents were eye doctors of different kinds. I know a ton of stuff about eyes for no reason but me hearing them talk about it. And so if you can pick something that you have some relevant industry experience or tangential experience through people you know. Real quick, guys, if you can think about how you found this podcast, somebody probably

tweeted it, told you about it, shared it on Instagram. or something like that. The only way this grows is through word of mouth. And so I don't run ads. I don't do sponsorships. I don't sell anything. My only ask is that you continue to pay it forward to whoever showed you or however you found out about this podcast that you do the exact same thing. So if it was a review, if it was a post, if you do that, it would mean the world to me and you'll throw some good karma out there for another entrepreneur. And so fundamentally, the idea is that we always want to pick the people that we feel like we can serve the most and create the most value for. So if you were like, I don't know, I have three different backgrounds. It's like, okay, well, of those three

different people, which of those subsets do you think you could help the most? That's the person you should help because if you can help that person the most, it means that you can charge the most and ultimately make the most money. And if you're worried about like, wouldn't that mean I'm only going to be able to serve a very narrow customer? That's right. And that's the point, because you're not going to try and compete with the biggest companies in the world who already have all the operational infrastructure to crush you. You're just going to say, I'm not going to beat them at everything. I'm just going to take strategy, limited resources, unlimited opportunities. I'm going to go laser focused on this one person. And I think that I could be,

the best company in the world at this tiny slice. And then piece by piece, you'll expand that. But for right now, if you're starting out, you focus on that slice and you learn that slice like the back of your hand. That's how you can win. And once you start serving those customers, guess what? You can run this process. And then find the 80, 20 in those customers.

So here's what happened after we implemented this process at Gymwatch. So we surveyed our customers. We sorted for the ones that had the most money, had spent the most money with us. And then we saw what they all had in common. steps one through three. Step four was execution. And so this is what we found. From a demographic standpoint, our customers were right-leaning and conservative, which is pretty common for small business owners. They were married, they were male, and they were 25 to 45, and they were mostly U.S.-based. Business-wise, the best gym owners that we worked with had a signed lease,

they had at least one employee, they were doing at least $10,000 a month when they came to us, and they had at least 30 customers. So those are the business statistics that we saw that they all had in common. You'll note that I said there was a lot more questions that we asked. That's right, but not all of those were in common, which means not all of them were important. And that's okay, you ask a lot more questions than you may ultimately use, because the whole point is to narrow it down to the fewest commonalities. Their aspirations were to have a million-dollar gym, not work so much inside of the gym, stop teaching sessions and open more locations. And the reasons that they bought was that they didn't have enough leads, they had a bad location, they weren't making enough money,

and they couldn't find good employees. And so here's where got really interesting. The last piece that they all had in common was that they had each consumed, it was 78% of them, had consumed at least two long-form pieces of content prior to making a purchase. This is really important because when we get to the last step of reverse engineering the sales process, we're going to force that to happen. So in step four, I said execution. There's two things that change.

One is how you talk to your audience, which is your new more refined avatar, and second, how you reverse engineer the sales process. So the first thing we did was all of our messaging changed in all of our marketing. We stopped talking about aspiring gym owners, trainers, fitness professionals, whatever, and we got laser focused on gym owners that had a signed lease, we're doing $10,000 a month or more, had at least one employee and 30 minimum customers. All of a sudden, and when we talk about is, if you're this person, and what do they want? Aspirations.

They wanted a million dollar gym. What are the reasons they bought? If you want to stop suffering from not having enough leads, from not knowing where to get your next employees, and from not making enough at the end of the month. So they outlined where they are, what they want, and the things they're struggling with. And so we changed all of that into our marketing messaging

and set it very clearly on every step of our process. Our ads said it, the video said it, the creative said it, the landing pages said it, the application said it, the phone team set it, everybody said it all the way across the company so everyone could understand exactly who we served and most importantly again, who we don't, which is everyone who's not that. So once we found out that the trigger or the thing that they also had in common from a buying

perspective was that 78% of them had at least consumed two long form pieces of content, we then said, okay, the people who spend the most money with us and stay with us the longest are the ones who are the most pre-sold on coming to us. All right, well then let's force that to happen. And so what we did was he injected multiple long form pieces of content into the sales process itself, so we'd force everybody to consume two long form pieces of content to make them just like the people who spend the most money and stayed the longest. On top of that, we started outputting more content specific to the struggles that they said in the surveys. So each of those pain points, we started making much more content around solving each of those

things. And then, to go even higher or deeper on this, what we did was we created an all-time greatest hits list or Excel sheet of the content that was the reasons that people cited as the reasons they chose to buy. And so my sales team had a list of every single piece of content. Those were the ones that they said were decision maker pieces of constant or milestone content. And then they had that sorted by the headline of the thing, the link, and then the reason. And so when they got on a call, when we would inject the two long form pieces of content, they'd be the ones that were relevant to the problems that they wanted to solve. And so that gave my sales team a sales or value cheat sheet that they could give to customers

or prospective customers to consume so that we'd be even more laser targeted in the problems that we're solving value in advance before asking for money and showing our expertise that we really knew how to solve their problems. And by doing that, we forced every prospect to go through the ideal buying prospect of our best prospects. And so we therefore transformed or manufactured the best customers out of the raw material of prospects. So it's both from selecting better people with our messaging so we got attracted the right people. And then with that raw material, we manufactured them into the ideal person who's closable and pays the most and stays the longest. And as a side note, I want to be very clear, the valuable content, the long form pieces of

content we provided them were not disguised sales pitches. They were literally just valuable content that truly solved the problem. It was demonstration of expertise. That is what we were doing. A lot of times people try and sell too hard when oftentimes sales, if you have to sell really hard, it's the result of poor branding. It means that you don't have enough goodwill, you haven't provided enough value in advance. And so the easiest thing to sell more is provide more value before you ask. And this way you can manufacture that goodwill with a process. So I'm going to give you a comparison between the difference of what happened with our metrics compared to another business that was in the same space as us that hadn't gone through this process.

So a while back, I was approached to buy an equity stake in a company that was similar in the same space as us because they thought that it would be a strategic purchase for us. They would benefit from our brand. We would benefit from some things from them, et cetera. And so in the diligence process, I get to look at all their numbers. And this is what's crazy. Once we dove into the numbers, it turned out that they were selling the exact same amount of customers per month as us. Same number of customers.

But he was making 70 times less profit than May. Yes, 70 times less. 7.0. And spoiler, it wasn't because we were brilliant. It's because selling to the right people works and compounds unto itself. Because not only do you actually have a lower cost of acquisition oftentimes because you're more specific in your messaging, your sales process becomes more choreographed to the needs of that specific type of customer.

So you get them in, more laser targeted. You convert them at higher percentages. And once they're in, all of your onboarding, all of your fulfillment is far more perfectly tailored to their specific situation rather than having to be far more general and create less value because you can't be a specific or tailored with recommendations for the business or for the services you provide. So the big difference was they accepted anyone with a pulse and a credit card. And as a result, their customer success team was always flooded with complaints and churn

and people left as fast as they came, which is part of the reason they wanted me to buy in to try and help them fix this. And to a certain degree, because they were more generalized, it kind of forced this. And so people try and solve all of these other problems in the business rather than thinking, what is the most strategic thing I can do? Maybe I should stop serving all the people who suck and who drain all the resources from us and actually make very tailored solutions to the best customers. And so that's ultimately what we did.

If you think about it from a percentage standpoint, we were only serving a very, very small percentage of the entire fitness industry because that means that we couldn't serve any trainers. We couldn't serve any people who wanted to do fitness as a profession or wanted to go online. We didn't do any of that stuff. And we didn't even serve all specific types of gyms. We actually even found out more detailed over time that we served micro gym owners and we served health club owners. Those are the two segments that we serve very, very well.

Everyone, like bar studios, less so. Cycling, less so. And it wasn't because our model didn't work. It was actually psychographic. People who are yoga-e people don't usually vibe with me. And my style of doing things. And it didn't work with our style of doing business. not the mechanics of the business were different.

It was just they didn't vibe with our culture. And so there are multiple layers. The demographics, you also have psychographics. That's where the political leaning, things like that, those are things that affect who buys and what your messaging comes out as. So as a result, we ignored everyone that wasn't our perfect customers. And we were rewarded with higher gross margins, premium pricing, longer retention rates, more referrals, more repeat business.

And the crazy thing about this is that my business and this other guy's business, We're serving the same market, but a different avatar. And as a result, got monstrously different results. This stuff matters. And many competitors tried to copy everything that we were doing. They tried to copy our ads. They tried to copy our landing pages. They tried to copy our sales process.

But the problem was they wouldn't commit. They would panic, and they would cut out steps. They would cut out filters. They would cut out qualifiers in order to make the short buck. They wouldn't hold the line. And most times, they paid very dealer for it because they wouldn't make us much money. And as a result, they could never outcompete us. And as a tangent, in my experience, every time I've cut out qualification steps, my volume has gone up, but my quality has gone down.

And then what ends up ultimately happening is that I make actually less dollars per unit of advertising or promotion that we put in. So even if I get half the calls booked for X amount of effort of outbound dials, of content, of whatever, my actual throughput on sales, even if I had more calls with higher quantity, the net net sales would drop every time to remove filters. One of the other things that we did as a result of this was that we actually kind of merged marketing and sales in time of an acquisition department. And we did that because when we just had it marketing, they would focus on getting more, right? The sales guys wanted more, but they also wanted better. And so it was always this constant battle. But when we kind of put the

departments together, it was much more about, okay, how much are we spending? How many sales are we making. And so we wouldn't obsess about having way more options because the marketing people would look at the same metric as the salespeople, which is how many deals did we close? And so by putting them together, it aligned all the teams. And now we use the optimal amount of steps to generate the most sales. And so the amount of people who try to copy what we're doing and then panic because they couldn't get the volume and they'd remove a step, they thought they were being clever. We tried that. It doesn't work. The amount of steps that we had in the process is the exact amount of steps to get the highest return on the inputs of time, effort, and money.

For example, I would rather pay $5,000 to acquire a $45,000 customer than pay $1,000 to acquire a $5,000 customer. And that's a trade that is easy for me to say and very hard for other people to replicate. Once they see their ad spend go up a little bit or their number of outreach attempts go up, they lower the bar. They lower the bar. They take the quick money. And they can never get that compounding machine going because they always still sacrifice and then they create more problems on the back end. They can never get the momentum of the business going. Knowing your ideal customer journey forces patience.

You begin to see the business holistically rather than as a widget to be sold to as many people as humanly possible. The latter is how newbie entrepreneurs think. Don't think like that. To give some context, because I've looked at acquiring a lot of businesses in the gym and fitness industry, the average LTV or lifetime value that most competitors in that space gain is about $6,000 to $8,000 per customer in a B2B SMB market. so a small business owner market. Our lifetime value is north of 45,000. Now, despite our LTV being only six to eight times higher,

the subsequent margins are breathtakingly different. So if you imagine the cost of fulfilling might be the same or maybe 50% higher, but you can make six to eight times more money per customer. You make breathtaking amounts more. And so for a moment, I want you to imagine what eight times your price, if you eight extra price right now and you had the same amount of customers,

how much more money would go to your bottom line? Just think about it for a second. probably a lot. That's the difference, and that's why it's worth it. Now, once you narrow down your focus, you will serve fewer customers in the short term. So you have to be prepared for that emotionally. So that may mean in the short term a decrease in revenue. And as a side note, the fastest way to build a $10 million thing isn't always the fastest way to build a $100 million thing. Sometimes you've got to take a step back before you can take 10 steps forward. But over the long haul, you will get more retention, more pricing power, more profitability, more repeat business,

and ultimately sometimes even lower cost of acquisition once everything gets dialed. And unless you're planning on quitting this business long term, why wouldn't you start doing the best long-term decisions today? Right? So I'm going to give you a little tip about making a lot of money. You want to sell to people who don't stop buying. Fortunes are created when we sell stuff that people won't stop giving us money for. So our goal should be to either improve our products such that they don't stop buying

or limit our avatar so we only serve the people who have those. traits. Either solution works. No, there's a reason that companies that serve enterprise or Fortune 500 or Fortune 100 companies get the highest multiples when they sell. It's because those customers are the most valuable and they stay the longest and pay the most. Serving a better customer makes you a better business. So you have four actions to take as a result of this because if you watch something and you do not change your behavior, it means you learn nothing. So there's four things you do. Number one is that you survey your existing customers and you ask the questions, and you can add more questions to that survey. Number two is that you force-ranked those customers

based on who has paid you the most and stayed the longest over time. Number three is you do a common factor analysis. This is the part where you use your brain. You got to look and see what do these people have in common, where they came from, how much they spent, how big they were, how long they were in business, number of partners, political leaning, whatever it is. You start to narrow these down and see how much of that 20%, the top 20, ignore the 80, what they have. What, they have, have in common. Then step four is you execute the two-part plan. One is the front end in terms of the messaging. You only talk to those specifics and you cut out anyone who is not meeting those requirements. The moment you budge is the moment the strategy falls on itself. Second half is the buying process,

is that you reverse engineer what were the triggers that caused these people to buy in the top 20% and then you force all of these higher quality prospects to go through an identical process. over the long haul, this will increase both the quality and the quantity of the lead flow that comes into your business and the duration of the time that people will stay and pay for you and the pricing power they're able to charge because in a real way, you do provide more value to them. Growing a business comes down to either selling more customers or making them worth more. This process accomplishes both. You get more clients because your marketing becomes far more tailored to the specific type of people

that spend the most money. And then by extension, the people that come into the business are now. the people who are worth significantly more. And so you have two multipliers on the business, which is why we're making 70 times more profit, not just two or three times the profit, that a competitor is selling the same amount of units as we were in the same space was. This may feel like cheating because it's so obvious. But here's the crazy part.

No one does it because it's a four-letter word and it sounds like work. Getting this process right and doing this research will act as a force multiplier on everything else you do in the business in terms of the efficiency of your advertising and promotional efforts and the efficiency of your team and how much value provide. And all of that compounds into itself into reinforcing your brand, which hopefully is what you're trying to build. This is just one of the handful of processes that we do at acquisition.com for our portfolio companies, which acts as a forcing factor for us to have 3x increases in profit in 12 months, 4.7x increases in profits in 24 months of the portfolios that we have. Obviously, there's a

much bigger companies, but just to give you a perspective like this works at all levels of business.