The Game with Alex Hormozi - Answering Your Top Business Questions for 1 Hour | Ep 828

Episode Date: March 13, 2025

Wanna scale your business? Click here.Welcome to The Game w/ Alex Hormozi, hosted by entrepreneur, founder, investor, author, public speaker, and content creator Alex Hormozi. On this podcast you’ll hear how to get more customers, make more profit per customer, how to keep them longer, and the many failures and lessons Alex has learned and will learn on his path from $100M to $1B in net worth.Follow Alex Hormozi’s Socials:LinkedIn | Instagram | Facebook | YouTube | Twitter | Acquisition

I'm Alex Ramosey and I'm an investor and own acquisition.com. It's a big portfolio companies. It makes me more money than all over need and rest of my life. I had 100 business owners who flew out to our headquarters to scale their companies. And so they asked me questions for an hour. I try to do my very best to make the solutions as tactical as humanly possible so that you can, watching from home, immediately use them in your business. First off, I have to say thank you for taking me out for dinner last time.

That conversation that we had literally changed my life and changed my business. So yeah, appreciate that. And it's all the story of what happened? For sure. We had an event that was scheduled, had to get moved. The memo got passed down, and everyone found out except for one sales guy, and he sold six people into an event that didn't exist. On like a random Monday, we had six people showing up, came from Israel, and he was like,

hey, I'm here for the workshop. And I was like, this looks awesome for us. I'm really happy, I'm really happy that we're in this situation. We've always tried to come from the perspective of like when you when you have something that gets messed up Like you can't just like refund somebody because they're still net negative right like he still flew from Israel If I said hey my bad here's the money back he's someone like screw this guy Right and so we had the team spend the day with the six and then we took them out to dinner and I bring that up just because it was a great like example

of like something that took me too long to learn was that like you can't just make it right you have to make it more than right in order to actually make it right. You know, that was obviously a super unfortunate situation and, you know, every business, if you have humans, you make mistakes, right? And so that was a mistake that we had made. I remember hearing the stat from Disney, which is that it takes 37 magical moments to overcome one tragic moment. And so the moral of that statistic is not let's do 37 magic moments.

It's avoid the tragic moments, if at all possible. But if you do find yourself in a tragic situation, here's an interesting thing that Layla taught me, which is that, believe it or not, the people that you wrong and then super compensate to make it super right become your biggest ambassadors. He flew back out and he gave such a heartfelt, you know, story that like it took somebody who was negative and I think, you know, from at least what it sounded like, he was super positive towards us. And I think that that's in some ways, as terrible as it is when you do have one of those tragic moments,

just see it as an opportunity to flip someone from a hand. to a hater into an ambassador. Rather than being like, oh, we got to give these people refunds. It's like, no, like we actually get to build our reputation and decide what kind of company we want to be. Where we're stuck at right now, so we're selling the back end off for $1.95 a month for semi-private.

Or four months for $5.95. Our churn for both of those is 50%, so weighted it's 30% churn. And the reason why we've got such terrible churn is nobody shows up, like 7% of our student body actually shows up to the calls and actually gets the value from the thing they purchased. What's the onboarding look like? So we have the closer get them to see the calendar of we have eight sessions a week that they can join. So they showed them the calendar. They say, okay, which one of these do you think you can come to? And then they get them to say, okay, this one. And then the closer says, okay, I'm going to tell Jenny, who's the coach on that call, she's going to be expecting you. There's two, there's two kind of like, different angles to attack this. One is the kind of like logistic side, which I'm going to cover first because it's easy and just process stuff. And the other is kind of like the bigger, more amorphous stuff, which is like, how do I make our thing easier? Easier and more enjoyable for people to kind of experience.

On the logistic side, I'm sure that you're on my email list. If we had dinner, you better be on my email list. By the way, if you got anyone here read the Mosy Minute? Anyone? I think it's the best, like, some of the best stuff I put out. Anyways, it's really good. I think it's really good. I spend like my Sundays on it. Anyways, so BAM is a way of life, so book a meeting from a meeting. Right? And so the sales guy should obviously book to the onboarding call, right? Or the whatever. I do think that you probably need to add one onboarding call that's specific to the person, not just have them drop in. How much do you want this to work?

Really bad. Okay, so this is what I would recommend doing. You'll probably want to do something in the neighborhood of four to six sessions that are one-on-one. I'm just being like, now if you need to adjust price in order to do it, fine. but it's four to six sessions of one-on-one before they kind of qualify to go into the kind of the group setting. And so it's like you will personally onboard them

so that they have this way better buy-in. They don't feel like they're just like in no-man's land and just getting tossed into the middle of a conversation. But you kind of like on-ramp them. After you have the onboarding, which would be, and you can cut that. I mean, at the very beginning, just do two. You know what I mean?

Just to start and then you can kind of see how it goes. From there, you basically want to keep bamfamming per session. So all the people are showing up, the last five minutes, I would say, okay, everybody, let's pull up the calendars. When are you guys showing up again? Great, and I book it with everybody so that I'm keeping people forward.

And you have to back that up with probably the reminder sequence that they're going to get because it's actually a scheduled session. So they should get automated reminders, and they should probably get a manual reach out from the person who is running the session of the people who are supposed to attend. At the very least, do the automated one. And that would probably get a huge amount of,

like that will probably do a lot. And so this is actually, believe it or not, this is an onboarding process for a gym. So if you have large group training, if you take people and just toss them into the group, it's much harder than having kind of a more dedicated onboarding experience. The ideal is you do like six one-on-one sessions with someone. They feel more comfortable in the gym. They understand people. They understand how the vibe, the culture is.

And then they kind of graduate into the group sessions. And so what happens also is that the group sessions are now on a pedestal. It's like, you're not ready for that yet. Right. It's like you've got to earn that. And all of a sudden it becomes the prize that they earned, and now they got to be a on board. Can you see how that would work? For sure. Yeah. So this would probably be the... You set that up as like a big head, long tail,

sort of pricing system? And the question that you'd ask, if you want to give an AB close for this, is you would say, would you rather train, you know, start your thing in a group or one-on-one with me? Now that's if you're selling. If it's somebody else, or one-on-one with John. And a lot of times they're going to be like, well, I'd rather do it with John. And you're like, great. So this is the price for that. And then you just go for that sale. If it's not like, no worries, we can just start you here, not a big deal. And then if you want, if normally you sell six, you can say, you know what, I'm still going to give you one

if you do that because it's going to be way better than experience for you. So it feels like a gift and doesn't feel like they're like, well now, now I don't want the group thing, right? So just give them one or two if you sell the six, for example. Does that make sense? So he presented obviously with a low consumption issue, which then probably translated into low renewal

and probably low high churn. And so the the, the, the, the, the, that typically precedes that is low consumption, right? And so in order to first get consumption figured out, I like to get attribution in place. And so I don't know what kind of tracking he had, but I think he said like 7% or something like that. And so he had some level of tracking,

which allowed him to even take action on the problem. But most times when I ask more questions, I'd say nine times at a 10 the entrepreneur has a problem, but doesn't collect any data that precedes the problem. And so then the first step is to just go collect the data. And once you have the data, typically the solutions become obvious. And so a lot of time is wasted in this space of like trying to ideate and figure out this hypothetical solution without any data. And you're like, I don't know,

is it this or this or this that we could do? It's like, well, you have no data, so you have no idea. And so you just keep circling. And so when you don't know what to do, get data first and then it makes the path easy. I sell career coaching services to corporate executives. So basically we help these people find their next role. So we did $7.2 million in revenue last year. Congrats. About $2 million in profit. Amazing. And we know how to grow B2C.

We know that we can do that. But we're really wanting to get B2B going. So these enterprise level deals are a little bit more, they're a different ballgame, right? So we're struggling to get our first B2B deal because they have to be big enough to have the budget. Why do you want to do B2B? So this entrepreneur is obviously doing well.

You know, he's doing multiple millions of dollars a year. And he's got something that says decent margins. And he said, in order to scale, he should do B2B. But he was in a consumer-based market. and consumer markets are huge. There's way more consumers than there are businesses. So he had a proven product with a proven acquisition channel and was profitable and was growing.

And he was spending $3,000 or $5,000 a day. I was like, this is nothing in terms of the amount of scale that's available for the product that he had. And so when he said he wanted to do this other new thing, I had an inkling that it was for no actual reason besides he probably encountered some sort of difficulty that he assumed the new path wouldn't have. And so this is just a classic woman in the red dress.

Why can't you just do more what you're currently doing? We can. We hit like 90 in October and like that was a big week, like a million month. Like that was the milestone. It's like, okay, let's start doing different stuff. I'll tell you what my initial reaction is, which you're already probably guessing, which is like I will exhaust more before I look at anything new. And so someone would have to make a very strong argument for me why I can't do more of what I'm already doing.

So if I were to like buy your company tomorrow, I'd be like, yeah, don't worry about that. Just what are you currently doing to get customers? It's Facebook ads. Okay, so what are you spending a day? Anywhere from $3,000 and $5,000? Right, I'd be like, okay, so how do we get to $100,000 a day and spend? A day? Yeah.

Like what stops us from getting to $100,000 a day? Okay. And the answer to that question is the constraint. So what stops you from getting, let's say $10,000 a day? So what stops you from doing that? We were there in October, right around $10,000 a day, and then we had like sales efficiency issues and stuff like that. Obviously Q4 is not like the best time to have that type of service.

And so really just like making sure that our back in or our front end like sales called to close rate all that good stuff is like able to yeah profitable and we have a lot of like services like one-on-ones that we pair coaches really well we have a writing team in house that we pay so there's there's costs so what would but that those costs are fixed because you'd have that cost to the B2B right okay so what stops us the problems that exist in the B2C scenario and so he's like hey I've got I've encountered this problem I don't know how to solve and so my way of solving it is to not solve of it and start something else that will create even more problems in my business.

And so when you say it like that, it sounds ridiculous. But this is a decision-making process that, or rather a mistake-making process, that a lot of people follow. Fundamentally, you want to ask, why can't we do more? And the answer to that question is the constraint. And the only, in my opinion, proper constraint for deciding to go after a new avatar is that you run out of the existing avatar. So think about this.

Have you ever done B2B, like Enterprise? Okay. So the thing is, is that they are a higher leverage, but you're also going to have like 10, 15 touch points. And so the number of deals per guy is going to go down a lot. There's also going to be multiple stakeholders that you have to get involved on their side and multiple stakeholders that you're going to introduce

on your side. So just in general for B2B like enterprise level sales, you increase conversion rate and stick of a customer by increasing the number of people that are involved in the transaction on both sides. So basically you want to show, you want to show, have as many of these ties as you can to do enterprise sales. The lowest risk-adjusted return move in any business is to do more of what's already

working and answer the question, why can't we do more? And so if you have a sales efficiency issue, then like solve the sales efficiency issue because it's holding you back from tripling. The things that you brought up are all fixed problems, as in their problems on both paths. So to forego the path you're currently on, for a new path that's completely unproven, with the same problems that you know already exist is a much higher risk move than just saying, yeah, why don't we just get to 30 million. Okay, so just focus on maxing out B2C over, like fully competent B2C,

we're doing everything. Well, not even that you're doing everything, that you have exhausted the market of C's. Okay. Okay. Right? So if you want diversity, then I'd still, I would rather you go diversity of channel

rather than changing customers. The riskiest thing you can do, it's a new business, basically. You have to have a new offering, have new acquisition, like everything's new. And so I would rather, if you have the itch for new, just get a second channel, but I don't think you're even close to that. You're at 3,000

a day. I think you can totally spend 50, 100,000 a day for sure, just on that. What will likely be the next thing that gets in your way is that your ROAS is going to drop. And so typically that's going to be, you're going to need to have option one, better lead magnet, option two, better creative. Option three, superior CRO conversion rate optimization, just on the pages. Option four, improve sales efficiency. Option five, all four, and then that allows you to scale. And like fundamentally the difference between companies that can spend $100,000 a day and $5,000 a day profitably is how good they are. It's literally just making all of this piece is better. And that takes time because you're going to only change one of those at a time, and this is why business takes

time to grow. I sell bleacher rentals to festivals and fairs. So we do around $4.5 million in revenue and about a million in profit. You betta. Congrats. What's stopping me is having my leadership team delegate fully some of their responsibilities. And I think it has to do with creating processes that are followed by all. If we need to hire key people and we don't have the processes, then we can't delegate properly. So how do you train leaders? So this is a good question that I'm going to chunk up one level

because I think it'll be valuable in general, which is that fundamentally when we're hiring anyone, we look for the smallest skill deficiency possible. Fundamentally, you've got traits, as people call them, and then you've got skills. Now, based on Alex's worldview, this is not a thing. It's just that. A trait is just a series of skills, right?

And so when you hire a CFO, for example, you're gonna try and hire for the smallest skill deficiency. And so if the CFO is a dick, for example, but they're exceptional at all these other things, then you're like, maybe I can teach them to be kind in these ways. Now that'd be a big, it's a lot of skills to just have some like go from not kind to kind, right? A lot of subskills underneath of that. And so if it's two days to train sales and two months to train kindness, take this person who's kind and then train them on sales.

Later on, sometimes you have people who you're like, okay, this person's a little different than our vibe. They're not going to be oil and water, but they have this massive skill set that we can use and this tiny deficiency that is around this stuff that we can be transparent with them up front. that they need to fix. I've seen this happen again and again and again where a manager or a leader talks to somebody else and says, hey, and then uses amorphous terminology that's very hard to pin down to basically say, change your behavior and they're like, but how?

And they're like, change it. And you're like, okay, I don't know what that means. And so the reason I'm so obsessive about operationalizing terms, like what is patience, what is courage, what is humility, like what are these terms actually mean in terms of behaviors? Like, patience is figuring out something to do in the meantime.

Like, if you figure out something to do in the meantime, you're by default being patient. And so it's telling someone what they actually have to do, not who they have to be. Stop being lazy is very hard for someone to solve. It's like I keep telling her to not be lazy and she keeps being lazy. But you have to break the term down into what behaviors you describe as lazy. Because when you talk to your partner or you talk to somebody else, you say, hey, Sarah's kind of lazy. Have you noticed that?

There are things that she did that you observe that you ascribe the label lazy too. And so you have to think more deeply, like what did they do to deserve the title? title. And it might be like they don't respond quickly to Slack messages. These are things that if you said, hey, Susan, instead of insulting her and saying, hey, you're lazy, instead we'd say, hey, you don't respond to Slack messages quickly enough. You aren't responding, you know, after hours, and our hours keep going until 9 p.m. and you're not responding until after 5. And so for this week, I want you to focus just on responding to Slack message. So let's turn on notifications. Let's turn it on both of your phones and turn it on your computer so that you can see it.

Is there anything else that's going to get in the way of you responding quickly? Now, when we ask that question, we might find out that Sarah's overwhelmed because she's doing somebody else's job who we laid off, and we haven't backfilled. It's like, okay, well, now we have context. But until we get to there, we can't appropriately measure Sarah's inherent value or traits, rather behaviors, to give her a label. So to your question, how do you train leaders? I think that attracting good leaders, so one of it's recruiting, right? So Chick-fil-A's head of people said this. She said a lot of people are trying to fix process

when they really lost the championship in the draft. And so a lot of people are trying to figure out what playbook they should be using with a team that's never going to win. So the big framework that we use for training in general is document, demonstrate, duplicate. And so first, you figure out exactly what the checklist is. And I like checklists more than quote SOPs. That's a personal preference.

And so it's like, and you want to be able to break it down into behaviors. And I think this is where a lot of training goes wrong. I think most companies aren't very good at training. They're just, they basically hire a bunch of people, see who's got the skill and then fire the rest. But if you do get good at training, it's like, how do you train kindness? Well, you say, okay, well, people who are kind when they come on a phone, they smile, right? And they nod their head when people are listening. And they repeat back what someone says.

And they, you know, raise their voice when they walk into a room. Right? And so if you boil it down to some of the behaviors, then the onus is on us as leaders to be more specific with what we tell our subordinates to do. And I think a lot of times if you're struggling to train some of these key traits with leaders, it's because you're not being specific enough

about what you want them to change. And so it's like, you're just not getting it. It's like, well, no one can do anything with that. And so it's like you have to, and this is where the work comes in from the top down. We're like, OK, when you do this, and so the easiest way to bucket this, that's a key. There we go.

Is Sarah, I need you to stop doing this. I need you to start doing this. And I need you to keep doing this. And so just being more granular about what behavior you want them to stop or what behavior they're not doing that they need to begin or a combination. And so giving someone the feedback of I need you to do this instead of this has been some of the most effective way that I've been able to change people's behavior. And it's about around the specificity.

And so if your leaders aren't doing what you want them to do, document, demonstrate, duplicate. This is the step process. Let me show you how I do it. now you do it in front of me. And this is what we're going to have you stop doing. You're going to now do this instead and keep doing the other stuff that's good. I sell professional book publishing services to entrepreneurs and executives. We do a million dollars in revenue. I'd like to be at 3.2 million in revenue. Very precise. And I just turned 32. So that is this is the best, this is the best explanation for a revenue goal I've ever had. That's great. What's stopping me is I'm at the stage where

I need to make more money before thinking about other things. And the challenge I'm facing is a lot of things have worked for us up to this point, but I need to know what to, I need clarity around what to do more of. So what's the input? So what's the thing that drives the business? The biggest thing that drives the business right now is referrals. Okay.

The second biggest thing is related to organic in the form of speaking, social media, and guest coaching. And then we have a split between cold email outbound and Facebook ads. You're doing all the acquisition channels. All of them, and we didn't even mean to do all of them. We just kind of tried them on. They all seemed to work enough. What's the greatest percentage of your customers? What channel do they come from?

The greatest percentage of the customers after referrals would be organic. Okay. And that's, you put that both in organic content, but also like speaking and things like that. Okay. How many speaking things are you doing on like a monthly basis? It's about one per year last year. Okay. So I have an idea.

So I would ask the question, like, I think I might have told this in a short, but a really close friend of mine, he took over Real, which is a publicly traded real estate brokerage. Their primary way of getting more agents is him speaking at real estate events. And so in Q4, he did 66 speeches. And in 24 months, he took from 200 million to 1.2 billion in revenue. And so he's doing 270 plus events per year in person. We were having dinner, and he was like, no one gets it. He was like, no one understands how much more we do than them. And I'm only telling the story not to make, hopefully it comes across the right way. Because I think you just, like, if, and I'm guessing if that event generated business for you. Yeah, I mean, every time I speak, we make a significant amount. Well, yeah, so I'd be like, let's, like, how do we go from, you know, one a year to one a week and start there? just like target 50 next year.

And so he rightly identified that he simply needed to do more. The next natural question I was gonna be asking is like, what are all the ways to your customers? Which he obviously answered. And so then it was like, okay, the next follow-up question I'm thinking is, where do we have the most leverage? So either that's gonna be which thing is taking you the least amount of time that makes you most amount of money,

or which one's the thing that costs you the least amount of money that makes you most amount. So the time leverage or it's money leverage or both. Now, the fact that he said, I always make a bunch of money after I speak, I was like, okay, that's a positive indicator. And as soon as he said, I only do one speaking of it a year, I was like, I don't need to know anymore. Like, if you're getting, if that's a significant amount of revenue and it's one day once a year, like, I see that and think, okay, well, we could 50x the business if we just did 50 of those.

And so then the constraint then becomes, okay, how do I get booked on these stages? But then that's, you follow the same core for you. You do the outreach, you post-cont, and then you reach out to people to find out. And sometimes you have to pay to be on the stages. Sometimes you get a booth and then they'll give you a speaking slot. There's always ways to get on if you need to. We acquire companies in the UK and Dubai. Current revenue across the portfolio is about 35 million.

The metric isn't so much to want to get to a revenue metric. We want to try and create a minimum of around 50 million enterprise value. Do you own all them out, right? No. So it's varied. I think the problem is do we focus on building out the double down on the companies we already have, growth the EBITDA that way, or do we keep acquiring and build the EBITR through acquisition? How many do you have?

14. 14. Are they similar? No, that's the thing. So if we used to go through acquisition, we'd have to try and create synergy down the line. Yeah. So you're in a very classic kind of P.E. No Man's Land. So you have more companies than most funds would ever have.

And you didn't pursue a synergistic strategy in order to accommodate volume. And so on one extreme, you have like Constellation, which you're probably familiar with in Canada. It's like they only buy vertically integrated SaaS and they go sub three million and they just do a hundred deals a year, right? And they just know their playbook. On the other side you have traditional PE that would have a variety of different businesses. They buy, you know, detail shop and then a supplement company and then a whatever. But they only have 68 companies in a fund and they have a decent, you know, decent hold code team to add value to the company. And so if I were in your position, first thing I would do is probably ask myself, who do I want to be when I grow up in terms of

of what you want the actual day-to-day business to be, because you can hit 50 on either of those paths, right? And so it's which of these do I feel more, like, more me? Like, do I feel like I do have a couple of these businesses that you're like, I really understand these ones? And if you don't feel that way, then I would probably look at these and go 80-20 and say, okay, what's the 20% that's driving 80%

of the enterprise value? And trim. Honestly, I would just, like, go completely passive on those ones or just return equity or do some sort of deal so I could get my attention back, and then double down on the one. ones that you are good at. So this gentleman who had a had a P-E firm suffered from a classic issue that I cover in the offers book, which is that he had not committed to the niche. So this is

page 38 of the book. And I tell the story where I try not to niche slap people, which is that they need to pick one niche ideally. Now, this gentleman had basically two paths that he could follow. He could follow a more concentrated path of just a few companies that could disparate or different in nature, but because of a team of five-ish people, he could probably preside over those, call it six companies that are the better ones of the portfolio, double down on those, inject capital, recruit higher level talent, maybe improve the strategy, and then grow the companies. The alternative path was that he just gets really vertical, meaning he tries to get as many

companies that are of the same type, so that he can see, trying to use fancy words, but synergies between the companies, so that they all together, kind of the sum of the parts is greater than the whole. Because you can centralize some costs, which adds profit to all of them. You can have cross-business learning. So if you have 10 HVAC companies started by 10 different founders, all of them are going to have a few things they do well. So you take the best practices from each of them individually, and then you implement them

across all of them. And so you get this cost savings off the bottom line by centralizing costs, and then you distribute out best practices. And so that is a typical kind of private equity play, which is a roll-up play, where you can buy 10 things for a million dollars and sell all 10 together for 50 million. And so he was obviously shooting for a $50 million exit. And the crazy thing is, and this is true of entrepreneurship, is there's a lot of ways up the mountain. The bigger the goal is, the fewer the ways up the mountain there are. So you want to get to a trillion-dollar company, well, you're going to have to do some crazy new technology. that probably doesn't exist in order for you to get there.

If you want to have a $50 million exit, you can do that with just about any business by just getting it to a decent amount of size. And yes, that includes chains of brick and mortar, that includes online business. Like you can absolutely do it in any niche, no matter how small it is. I sell health and wellness,

so basically physical therapy, personal training. 35 to 45 year old athletes. Okay. Our is the avatar. And we do about a little over 3 million. The biggest thing that's stopping me, you have a huge shortage in practitioners. To give context, there's about 16,000 open positions. Your supply constraint.

Yes. So I need more producers to produce. So I decided to kind of pivot and say, well, if I can't find the people, I'm going to increase price. Well, I'm glad you did that as the thing you decided to do. So that's fine. I started another business on e-commerce. Yeah, so to start teaching people to, yeah, yeah. So that went well to the tune of we didn't lose revenue.

Okay. But I'm at that point where now do I go all in on continuing to increase price and move more into almost like a concierge membership model? Or do I go all in and just try to crush and find the people and do what nobody else is possibly doing? Do you have any issues on getting customers? No, we have. more demand than... Okay.

That we could book people. So, have you heard my story about buddy of mine who's in the cleaning business? All right, I'll tell you. So, former gym owner crushed it with Jim launch

and then decided he started making enough money that he started investing in real estate as all entrepreneurs too. And then after he was crushing in real estate, he was like, you know, I should probably start a cleaning company because he started doing Airbnbs out of his real estate. He's like, this has cost me a ton of money,

I should vertically integrate. And so he started the cleaning company to clean his Airbnb. And he's like, well, now that I have the cleaning company, I might as well start selling other customers. Don't want to leave money on the table, right? And so you can see how this spindles, right? The moral of the story, though, is that I called him up,

and he was telling me, he's like, dude, it's crazy. He's like selling cleaning customers. He's like, KAC is like $25. It's insane. It's so easy to get customers. And I was like, oh, you should scale this to the moon. He's like, yeah, you know, it's kind of hard to get English-speaking maids

who don't take stuff from people and do a good job and show up on time and are willing to work for $15 an hour. And I was like, okay, so the nice thing that you have is you have a supply-constrained business. He was used to fitness, which is typically demand-constrained. So it's hard to get people to want to show up to the gym, right?

Not hard to get people to say they want somebody else to clean their house. And so basically the reframe that I gave him is what I'll give you, which is you're not actually in the physical therapy business. You're in the recruiting physical therapists business. The whole paradigm that I would have around this is, what is the career path look like for the physical therapist

so that I can make this really enticing? On top of that, I have to still think through the same, you still have the same core four, right? You've got warm outreach, you've got cold outreach, you've got paid ads, and then you've got, I should know these I wrote the book, okay, organic content, right? So these are the four things that you can do, right? And then you've got headhunters, right?

which is basically recruiters. And you have word of mouth from your existing staff. Word of mouth from your existing staff. And so these are the ways that you can get physical therapists. And so we have to approach this the same way we approach getting customers. They are just now the customer. And so maybe running in D-Dads is probably not the way that you're going to get them. But I'll bet you that outreach will work exceptionally well to get therapists.

And I would probably bet that if you had a really good referral, referral incentive over time that would compound. Now small, not as much. You'll probably need to do this to start. As you get bigger though, there's gonna be enough of a base where a few percentage every month of referrals is material. And so let me just put this in math for you so that you can, so this will motivate you to do it.

How much do you make in gross profit off of a physical therapist per year on average? About 350. Okay. So if I told you that I could add $350,000, in growth profit per year to your business. How much would you be willing to pay for that in the first year? Quite a lot.

Right. And so giving someone $500 for a referral, not that motivating. If you said I'll give you $20,000 for a referral, I'll bet you'll get them to move. Most businesses are either supply constrained or demand constrained. Now, if you have a business that's both, then it's like you don't have customers and you don't have employees.

Like, that's a tough place to be. Most of the time, it's one or the other. And what's interesting is that entrepreneurs will often try and solve, basically like not solve the real problem. And this was kind of exactly what she was presenting with. She was like, should I do this other thing? Or should I, like, should I change my model altogether? But the crazy thing is just like her model was doing great.

She was making good margins. She had, she's doing good revenue out of two locations. It's like, why are we gonna break the model? Like the constraint of the business is that you just don't know how to recruit. So let's just solve that problem. Because her other path of like just raising prices, which to be fair, I'm all in favor of.

At some point, it's like you can't raise the prices anymore. Like, you're becoming like a luxury business, and it's just like you're changing all the dynamics of the business, but her business worked already. And so for me, the lowest risk thing to do is not change the business model, but just figure out the problem of the business and solve it. And for her, the biggest problem was, I can't get people.

But I don't think she had quantified how much she should be willing to invest in getting more talent. And I think this is wildly underrated. It's like, think about it from a return on profit. I only did it on gross profit, right? It's $350,000 per employee. So I'm like, why would you not pay, I mean, like, just being wrote,

why would you not pay $50,000 or $100,000? Right, if you know that if I, people are happy to put, you know, $100,000 in the stock market and get 10% back and make $10,000. But in their businesses, they're hesitant to give a commission of $10,000 for a $300,000 thing, right? And so if you're like, well, what if that doesn't work out? Then push it out where there's a contingency that you're happy to do it. And if you want, keep raising the price until you get people to refer.

Like, with enough incentive, you can move the world. And so speaking of this physical therapy, brick and mortar business, I did a brick and mortar breakdown of five locations of a chiropractor that had done through M&A on how to accelerate the growth of the business. And it's super tactical and it works whether you have a single location or you're even virtual. A lot of the tactical will carryover to any business to help it grow. Enjoy.