The Game with Alex Hormozi - Business Scaling Workshop Live Q&A | Ep 809

Episode Date: January 17, 2025

Welcome to The Game w/ Alex Hormozi, hosted by entrepreneur, founder, investor, author, public speaker, and content creator Alex Hormozi. On this podcast you’ll hear how to get more customers, make more profit per customer, how to keep them longer, and the many failures and lessons Alex has learned and will learn on his path from $100M to $1B in net worth.Wanna scale your business? Click here.Follow Alex Hormozi’s Socials:LinkedIn | Instagram | Facebook | YouTube | Twitter | Acquisition

Hey, Ox. Hello. My name is Rick, and I sell financial planning services to young big tech on employees, W-2 employees. We do about half a million of revenue. I'd love to be at $5 million within the next, you know, three years or so. And what's currently stopping me is just a time resource management issue where I'm currently doing the, you know, fulfillment of meeting with our clients. And I hired a new full-time associate planner to start to take over.

those relationships and so I think my current constraint is figuring out how to replicate teams as I continue to grow the business we're doing relatively we're just doing organic marketing content mostly on LinkedIn and read a daily blog which I post the website and an email list a small email list how many sales a month did you do about two two sales a month and is the model like 1% assets under management no that and that was another question that I wanted to get your thoughts on was, what are the big swings that I took about four or five years ago is to change the traditional financial planning model. So instead of charging the 1% AUM fee,

we charge a 25 basis point AUM fee, and then a monthly subscription, which is 275. So it nets out to be about $5,000 per client per year on an annual basis. And then obviously bigger clients have been more, you know, on the AUM. Interesting. Okay, got it. Okay, so typically with your type of business, they're usually demand constrained, not supply constraint. Like managing lots of people and lots of money usually doesn't actually take too many resources relative to how much they make you. And so I think that the big issue is probably just acquisition. So getting two sales a month is probably the big bottle net. And so I would, so what's the big incentive for someone to get on the phone with you?

you mean what's in it for them like what do they contact us initiatives they get their financial house in order we do a lot around getting people's financial independence like it by age 50 yeah so we're retired for worth a million dollars yeah fire movement you know yeah well yeah I so you know as as much as you may hate what I'm about to say there's a reason that all the big dogs do the same exact playbook which is they run to either virtual or they run to in-person

workshops because in one or two days or even a half day you can gain a lot more trust than a very long time online and I would probably use that as my lead magnet because that sometimes like for a lot of you guys like one of the biggest leverage you can have like when we unlock like an easy 5x it's usually something at the very front where it just like we just swap the lead magnet from like hey book a call to hey get this thing and then a call just happens to be part of it or a workshop happens to be the vehicle for delivering that outcome and when we do that,

that's when all of a sudden your lead flow goes from making two sales a month to eight or ten. And I think that for me, that would be the biggest issue. Now, you managing customers, it's like, I think you just need more cash flow, which more customers will help you with, and then you can get an account manager

who can kind of run those relationships. But most relationship guys can handle many, many, many customers. Because people don't, I mean, also the higher up you go, they tend to, in my experience, actually need less. Yeah, that is true. We do with people on a monthly basis.

Is that required? It is sort of like our sort of bread and butter. So we do a lot of accountability, a lot of like coaching, a lot of like... Is that for them to like save more money and stuff? Save more money, save on taxes, tax projections, manage their... I think you're undercharging and over... Not over delivering, but doing too much. Like meeting every month, that's almost like personal finance coaching more than like wealth management.

Yeah. Because I feel like those are two different offers. So it's like there's a... There's the Dave Ramsey of like, hey, stop spending money, silly pants. And then there's the like, once I have money, what do I do with it? And I feel like you're kind of blending those, but you're not, but you're doing both services and pricing like one. But like lower. So I think, basically you're not making enough money per customer to do the work you're doing.

Okay. Like 12 meetings a year is a lot. Most of the wealth management firms that like come through here. One. Yeah. Maybe. Quarterly at most. Right.

And so like you're doing 12 times the work. and billing less. So unless you had a tech-enabled way of making that the model, I would change the pricing. Okay. Because fundamentally, like, you're either the volume player

and you have tech built in since day one and the entire model is around cost efficiency or your premium. There's really not a lot of room in between. Like, best for least, like people, it's a hard time for people to perceive that value. So I just think you're doing way too much. Can I see this? One of the reasons why I designed it that way was so that we could fish further upstream than most financial planning firms.

So we start to work with people in their early 30s, right, when they're making, you know, a few hundred grand a year. And then, you know, a lot of those relationships that blossom into people, you know, doing big things at meta, you know, making $5 million a year, right? Do you think that's a smart player? Is that, you know, I don't think it's, I don't think it's, I don't think it's, I think you have a, you have, you have, you have two elements. You have a personal finance thing, and you have an investing thing. And you're getting the people who are younger with a personal finance thing, and they don't have enough assets to make their AUM really worth it. Right.

Right. And so, like, I would probably have a more traditional private wealth management model. And if you just find out that you can acquire customers really easily on personal finance much more easily than you can here, but then the ascension is much higher, then, like, that's a great model. Like, I think that's a really interesting play. But I think trying to combine both of them in terms of both. with the delivery and the pricing, I think that's where it feels off to me.

Okay, all right, interesting. All right, appreciate it. So I just blew your shit up, so I apologize. We have a whole year, so you're good. Go for it. How you doing? My name is Luke Devons. I sell pressure washing and gutter cleaning to homeowners.

I did $810,000 last year. This coming year, I wanna do $1.5, then the following three. So we're kind of, throughout this, we switched to the subscription model. That's what everyone's been suggesting. So how do now I get into neighborhoods or allocate resources?

Because a lot of people are saying, just do one channel, but then we do a lot of like door hangers, yard signs, and I feel like that all kind of like goes into one with like ads. Like how would you kind of rush neighborhoods and home service? So can you restate the question?

Yeah, like how would, How would you spend your marketing money if you want to get as many on this yearly subscription? Currently, how are you requiring customers? Just old school yard signs, door hangers, referral, stuff like that. What stops you from doing 10 times more of that? Probably just people. Okay. So then people become.

I do a lot of it myself. Okay, got it. So then, so what's the return, what's the, do you know what your LTV to KAC is on, I guess, it's right at 10? It's 10. with your time being free? Yeah. Okay.

So if you paid someone full time to do that, do you know how much that would impact your ROAS? Someone would probably be about 50, 60 grand, like a sales guy. Okay, so wait, are you, you're knocking on doors and getting the business? Yeah. Got it.

And then the truck follows you and then like does the work or whatever? Got it. You'll have, so I think in the beginning you'll have to keep stacking the subscriptions so that you can generate the cash flow because then you'll have basically the for sure business. And then once that starts stacking,

then you'll have the cash flow to hire the other sales guy who's going to be able to take over your role. Thing is most order door guys need to make decent money because it's terrible. Yeah. And so, like you'll probably need to be, like they'll probably need to make like, I mean, a decent, how many sales a day can you make?

Anywhere from like eight to 10. Okay, okay, yeah. So I think, I mean, one of those guys could, if you can pay them, Shoot 50 hundred bucks a sale They can make a thousand bucks a day I think you'd be able to get somebody to be able to do that for you like sprinkle in some type of like Facebook or Instagram or Google or like I just don't want to add complexity because like right now you have limited resources

And so I'd rather than just like do more of that thing rather than be like oh on top of that now I have to start calling leads And have to like create a whole like on like the online world and then working those leads is a whole different monster versus like you're right here. You say yes. I call truck we clean shit. I get my like yeah it's good business right yeah I would rather you keep it easy long term like once you if you were like hey I've got you know 15 trucks for the city or whatever and I've got 15 teams that are out doing it then I'd be like yeah I think having a you know a canvassed you know top of funnel kind of awareness stuff that generates leads in a centralized phone team that can then also proactively send trucks out to people that you already sold over the phone I think that makes

sense but given the fact you already know the script you know the process I'd rather you just stack some of the recurring so you have the cash or bring the new guy in. That being said, if you get a little bit more generous on the commissions, you can probably get someone to pay work commission only, so then you wouldn't have to take the risk on. Okay.

So I revised my original answer. Do that. Thank you. Yeah, you back. Yes, sir. How you doing? Cardico Field, we sell tax and financial services to high income entrepreneurs.

We do about $9 million of revenue. I do like to be at $25 million by this year. What's stopping us? So I know the constraint is people, we need more advisors to service our clients. We need a faster onboarding process to do more of five-day virtual events. I don't think it takes the whole company

to fix that constraint. I think it's HR, CSM's operations. Is it okay to have the rest of the company focus on a different constraint or with that like QOT morale or how do you balance constraints across, fix the constraints across the departments? That's a really good question. I've gone back in front.

forth on this, so maybe there isn't a right answer. But I would say that in the season that I'm currently in, I believe that there is one constraint, and if we solve that constraint, the business will grow. And so I want everybody to know that this is what we're working on. And what ends up happening is that you see the other fires that are burning, and then that actually creates more urgency to fix the first one.

When you try and fix them in parallel, it ends up taking longer to do both than to do one and then the other, because the whole team knows, it's like, but there's this other fire burning. And you're like, right, then fix the fucking first one. And so then, it just oriented the whole team. Right.

And then also that means that like if something has to happen, the whole team is greasing the, you know, the tracks to make sure that this objective gets pushed forward. Even because there's so many supporting and ancillary things to get some big thing done that if they're like, well, we have our priority, it's like, I think that's what gets in the way. Yeah, so we see, he's like,

well, sales has this priority, but operations, like this is not a priority of us right now. So we call it the silent sixth, which is basically like every business has their priorities for the year or whatever. The silent sixth one is that we, We have to keep selling, we have to keep doing business, right? So those things always have to continue.

But what is the one thing that matters most? I think is Jack Slutman. He's a good book on this. But I'll give you the tail of the book, is that he was a big believer or is a big believer at not having three objectives or five objectives, but just one. He said, basically, if you can't get clear that one thing is more important than everything,

then that's your fault as an entrepreneur. And so I see like if we're the chief allocators of resources, then it means we have to be able to prioritize and if we can't do it, how can we expect our teams to? Which means we have to be able to say, this is more important than that, and yes, they are both important, but this one is more important.

And I think that that kind of betting perspective has served me really well, being very violent with like, this is the most important. And I've just noticed that things get done way faster because then it's like, hey, when we do this, then we can do this next thing. And then everybody wants to do the next thing too.

And then when we do the next thing, all we part the C's to get that done. I like that. Thank you. Yeah. It also, in service of what I was talking about earlier, when you have that perspective, it also minimizes all the other changes that you're making across the company too. Because you're like, that's not a priority. Could we improve this thing?

Probably. Do we need to right now? No. It's not the constraint. Yes, ma'am. Hi. Hello. I'm Ashley Stahl.

My agency's Wise Whisper. Wise Whisper. Wise whisper. Yeah. We write and we book TED Talks for people, specifically entrepreneurs. We talked yesterday. We did 1.3 last year, and we actually think and want to do 10 next year, just because of ads and the infrastructure we've built. And it seems actually quite feasible just based on it.

But I was talking a lot to Jacob about closing and getting good closers that's stopping me. But beneath that, I started thinking about the contract. And everybody wants to feel like we're guaranteeing them their TED Talk, and we have 100% success. But because we existed during COVID, and our average, time to book went from 10 months to 20 months to get somebody there talk. I feel scared to offer a guarantee when I'm not TED. And so I just want to show my track record. Are they TEDx or TEDx's? Tedx. Okay, got it. Yeah. So any insight on guarantees? Yeah, this is a math problem. Yeah. So I'll tell you a story that applied to a home services business not that long ago. So

he was really scared to raise prices. And, but he wasn't making any money. and he was closing 80%. So I was like, hey man, please raise prices. And so he decided to raise prices, but to get him to raise prices, I said, so here's the deal. How many times, I said, what are the biggest concerns of a customer?

He said, well, it's on time and on budget. I was like, all right, how many times are you on time and on budget? He said, eight out of 10. And said, what happens the other two times? He said, one time they'll change what their requirements are, they'll say they actually want their kitchen

to be twice as big or whatever. I said, okay, he said the other time, I won't get materials in time. And I can't control that. I said, all right. So what if we write the guarantee? So it's, you're going to raise your price by 20%, which is what we did.

And said, and if you don't deliver on time, you're going to give the client the entirety of your profit, which right now is you make no money anyways. So like, we can say that. So it's like if I don't deliver on time and on budget, I will give you all my profit, which is 20% of this deal off. So that's the guarantee. And by switching to that, he closed way more people

and made way more money. And so the fear around guarantee I think is justified, But if you just look at the math and you're like, oh, I can close twice as many people and I have to give one out of 10 back, you made way more money. So I think just do the math on it. Yeah, I think it's just fear, like fear of being on the hook

if there's like another pandemic and I have like 400 TED talks, like breathing, yeah. Well, you already went through a pandemic. Yeah, exactly. Yeah, and with your gym numbers, I have no excuse. Okay, thank you so much. You back. You're good.

Hello, Alex. Yeah. My name's Nick Page. So I own a fitness studio. Cool. We just surpassed a million in revenue. Grats. And thank you.

Personal training or semis or group? Large group. Okay. So, if I'm being honest, I would like to be at 50 million. So honestly, what I think is stopping me is looking at my business just like. 49 more gyms. Yeah. Exactly.

So, and I honestly don't, this is like something that, I don't know if it's a belief, right? Yeah. Looking at my business as an investor. Sure. My LTV to CAQ is, I mean, two to one, I mean, we can get it to three to one. Looking at the market and realizing that the fitness studio space is becoming a red market. It's very tough. I don't know if I personally think it's a smart investment in my time to try to continue to grow my gym.

We're profitable. I have a great team. And I'm like, maybe I'll just sell it in one to two years. and then I'm like, so like I just read the book, how to make a couple billion by Brad Jacobs. And he talks about getting, you know, ahead of the trend, which I think you've done a great job of. So when I like read that, think like an investor,

and then I look at my business, I'm just like, this ain't it? Yeah. I'm kind of at this point where I'm like, when people are like, this is great, why aren't you scale? I'm like, you don't fucking understand it. I get it. So, I guess like, this sucks.

Everything's great, but it's like, do you start now? So, I mean, what do you think I should do? Like, if you or me, like, if you want to make $50 million, the likely that you get it there from a large group studio is very low. So if that's the goal, then you probably want to have a different vehicle. And so you can, I would say that if I was in your position, you have one of two paths. There's like in a really close adjacent path, which would be like, I do believe that the best fitness model right now is a small, small group.

Hmm? I think it's the best model that's on the market right now. And so you could change your existing model to that, and that one gets exceptional returns on capital, and it's a very operationally easy model to run. And so that would be like, the reason I kind of like that for you is because it already borrows from a huge amount of your existing skill set knowledge base, and that is a good vehicle. So that's option one.

Option two is you just try something brand new, which I have very little insight into like what of the unlimited opportunities could you pursue, all of them, or one of them, but transforming what you have into, I mean, fundamentally I think that's why you were here, or at least I would be, if I were you, is like how do I make this, how do I turn the thing that I have into the thing that I want? And I think that you can do it with a lot fewer steps than you expect. You'll probably have, you know, six months where there's a little bit of turbulence of people being upset because you change the rules of the game on them. But unless the facility that you have right now precludes you in some way from delivering that other model,

I would say that that's probably a very, the lowest risk, highest likelihood path. Yeah. Yeah, because my head just goes everywhere. Yeah. Another. Let me give you something. This is the first year in my entire life where I haven't had FOMO. I haven't had it.

and it's really weird. And I noticed that I didn't have it only at the end of the year. And I was like, oh, wow, that's weird. And I think it's because I finally have realized how fucking hard it is to do anything. And when I see someone who's crushing it, like a friend of mine made 50 million encrypted this year. And it's not as main business.

It's a side hustle. And I was just like, OK, noted. And so then I thought to myself, I was just like, good for him. I was like, I'm not going to get into it. Like, that's not my game. You know what I mean? But he's like, dude, the school deal's fucking monster.

And I was like, I know it's awesome. But that's the game I know. You know what I mean? And so it's not even the comparisons to the Thief of Joy thing. I think it's just that learning to play a game really well takes a really long time. And accepting that one of the saddest things about life for me has been that I'm only going to have maybe three or four more entrepreneurial seasons in me. And that's really sad because it means I only have three or four more big swings. And it's like, shoot, I have all of these things that I want to do in my life, but I only get to pick three or four more.

Maybe. Maybe. right and so I think that just getting comfortable with the idea like there will always be people who make more and even if you are Paul Getty and become the richest man in the world everyone will forget anyways and so like just context right that there's nothing wrong with taking having six months where you you know reconfigure what you're doing to then say this is what I'm gonna do for the next five or ten and then you're set for life and then you can do whatever you want

okay thanks you're both how you doing Alex name is Josh Hadley we sell on Amazon e-commerce we talked last night primarily stationary products so calendars planners educational posters we did 12.5 million last year like to be at 50 million

and even get to 100 million that's kind of the trajectory I look at the you know what you're preamble earlier right so you know go to increase your number of customers do more of what's been working for you and I have a podcast in the e-commerce space

ideally want to be like you when I grow up but in the e-commerce space. I want to be like you, so we're all good. But with that being said, our number one priority for growth has always been, find more products, opportunities on Amazon, launch those products, right? That's been our biggest growth lever. How many skews do you have? 1600. So we've got a lot.

So all stationary. My wife designs it all, right? All stationary. All stationary. I'm sure I bought something from you. Probably. Probably. Probably own that whole category.

Okay. Yeah. So we've looked at, you know, and Amazon's a cruel mistress in terms of decreasing profit margins, right? They're increasing fees. And I see like over the next decade, you look at Amazon, you're going to be happy with single-digit profit margins. It just becomes so competitive.

So with that being said, we've got on to TikTok shop, right? We've had some success there. It took 10% of our sales this year already. We've then taken the videos that go viral on TikTok. We run meta ads on them. and we finally cracked Shopify for the first time. We've got a five ROAS on that, right? So we're doing that.

I also look at wholesale. We briefly mentioned distribution in our conversation yesterday. So as I look at like our number one priority for growth has always been do more of what's worked, which has been launch products to serve whatever crap people are looking for on Amazon. But I also have these things that are boiling up that I'm like, man, I think this can really help things. TikTok actually is supporting all of our Amazon. increasing organic rankings just because people will search by it. So how do I communicate that to the team?

Because it's like, we still got to keep doing research in the back. That's the silent sixth. That's the silent sixth, right? So like we're going to continue to make the sausage. We're going to continue to do the proven winning strategy. And that's kind of that's the core. That's the base. We're not going to threaten the base to try and pursue the new thing.

But if you do see one of those writing on the walls type situations where you're like, my margins are going to compress, et cetera, et cetera, then it makes sense to make your one big bed of the year. Let's say it's TikTok. And I mean, to be fair, it's not that much more work to just take the same ads and then run on on Shopify. And then that becomes the objective of the year, which I would probably just put into owned customer list is probably how I would just categorize that for the team. I feel like that's it.

So what was the extra question? Yeah, I mean that, so you talked about that being like, hey, this is the one thing we're doing, right? Because we've got 25 team members already. They're all serving that one thing. which is finding, launching new products. It can be you and a squad team. And I've got a small other team.

My follow-up question to this has been, because I was talking earlier, about go hire a director of marketing that can go run this whole TikTok side, all of the Shopify stuff that we want to do. I've been doing a lot of it myself, and almost my reluctance to go hire somebody is like, well, then what else do I do in the business?

You know what I mean? So I'll make you a promise, and I don't make promises often. I promise that if you replace what you were doing, you will find something else to do. Well, I know that. Then I will double down on that because I've got this other e-commerce thing.

Ideally, a decade from now, I've got a win, and I can go do this exact same thing you're doing, but in the e-commerce space, right? To me, I'm always like, oh, go do more speaking on stages, go start building my own personal brands. Kind of what I gravitate towards life. That wouldn't be my priority. I didn't get the win.

Because like, say differently, take it to the natural logical extreme. So you do lots of stage stuff and then the main business suffers and then you don't get the W. Then you're just a airbag, right? If you, on the flip side, you don't do any speaking and you get the win, all those doors open tenfold. And so like what matters more? The win. So get the win. Yeah.

Easy enough. I do think that with your audience that you have, you'd be able to very easily head-hound. a really savage director of marketing who's already done e-commerce for TikTok shop or or Shopify and I'd probably do it on your podcast I'd be like hey I'm looking for a savage like read Ernest Shackleton's ad like looking for men low chance of survival just like this is a dangerous place to work and I think you will attract the right people awesome yeah and don't be afraid of him a lot okay thank you is ma'am hey I'm Brie I'm from Tennessee my sister's over

over there. You hear Mary. Hi, Bree, sister. We saw residential construction to middle-aged women who like to spend their husband's money. Love it. Got to know your avatar. Yeah.

Yeah. We've done 100K in revenue in one year. We would like to get to 3 million, ideally in two years. I think it's pretty realistic and easy in construction. And I think what's stopping us is scaling. potentially niching down so after these workshops that's what we feel like is the right thing and we wanted to get your feedback on potentially niching down to bathrooms there's a two-week turnaround yeah and it's a pretty standard can i already tell you i like that

you do yeah is it high more so it's high margin yeah and it's fast two weeks it's easy to sell it's a little bit lower yeah no i like so with a lot of um it's interesting because like in like app development or software shops, it's actually really, it's just digital construction versus like physical world construction, but they have the same issues. Anyway, I'm going to get into it, but yeah, they have the same issues. And so in almost all of those situations, I end up saying like, okay, what aspect of app development or what types of apps or what type of development do you do or what types of construction do you specialize in or that you have, like that you absolutely nail.

And usually it's like it's something like this, you know, we crush cabinets or like, we're really good at countertops, we're really good at bathrooms, or really good at whatever, right? And then zeroing on that, you'd be amazed at how much more responsive your advertising, your advertisements will be, prospects to your advertisements. Because then you can show before and afters on bathrooms. It gets much more niche down. And then people are coming in and calling are like, that's what I want. And you're like, cool, let me just take your money and I'll give it to you.

So do you think, like if we're saying no to the larger projects, which is still holding a 42% margin, we can do more of those, but they take longer time. you still think it's a better option to do the quicker thing. Well, what do you make on a bathroom? So for a custom shower, it might be 10K, it might $4,200. A full bathroom in Tennessee is probably about 14. Okay. How many of those can you, I mean, how many can you fulfill right now at max?

Five a month. Okay. And that's today. I think we could fulfill double right now with our crew, and then we'd have to build fulfillment. Yeah. That was like a short, I mean, we really just started ramping up the last six months of this time. We just ended.

That was really more of the last six months. I don't want you to turn off how you get customers because you need to make money. And just for everybody, like, when you're really small and you're starting out, like, it's normal to basically accept money from anyone. You're like, you have a pulse and a credit card? Like, you're for me. So it's normal. But what I would like you to do, though, like you can take those jobs. but in terms of what you're being deliberate about,

you're advertising, if you start running ads on Facebook and show some of those images to generate leads and sell, like, I would focus on that. And if you think that that, because, like, you should be able to pencil out in five minutes, like, can we make more money from this? If you feel, like, your sister's still very, very convicted about this.

Okay. Yeah, so if you can make a lot more money, if you can sell a lot, yeah, a lot more money selling bathrooms and you can sell way more of them, because then the transaction, the deal cycle is shorter. It's, you know, you walk, there you quote you close like it's it's very straightforward I like those types of businesses yeah no worries keep the money coming but focus there and then over

time you're the coloring of your money will shift and you'll be like 80% will be bathrooms and then you'll just be like okay now we're gonna there'll be a time where you'll be able to say we don't need this anymore just to get the focus so I just want you like shift it over time that makes sense okay yes sir hey Alex that Kevin with asset protection planners I set up asset protection trust to people in lawsuits protect their money. In lawsuits, actively.

Yeah. Well, there you go. Or before. Yeah. And we do $11 million in revenue. Awesome. And I'd like to be at $25. Okay.

And I think, two things. One, they add the pay-per-click cost through the roof, eating up a lot of the profit. And two, finding people who really can sell and understand legal concepts, both. Super common. Yeah. Okay.

So those are two separate problems. Yeah. Which one's the bigger problem? Currently, it's the ad costs that are going through the roof. Just PPC? Yeah, PPC. Well, I mean, if you're bidding for those terms, the only way to win, because it's an auction is going to be you increasing LTV.

But I'm guessing, I mean, I'm guessing you're selling relatively expensive packages. We are. Yeah. So I don't know how much room they have there. So I would probably, if I wanted to solve, you know, the acquisition problem, I would probably be looking at another paid ad. you know, way of running ads. So PPC for everyone here, typically pretty good returns, very consistent.

It's really nice because once you set it, you can kind of forget it, kind of. Well, definitely compared to social ads that are interruption-based, you have to refresh all the time. But I think that may be actually the next thing, though, is that I think you might have to look at interruption-based paid ads rather than inbound intent-based.

Because honestly, the only other thing that you could really do is just start going top-of-funnel more, because what percentage is people who are in lawsuits versus people who are not in lawsuits? About 50-50. Okay. Yeah, so then I would imagine that where your growth will come

is from the people who are not in lawsuits because there's way more people there than in lawsuits. PPC is going to be intent, red-hot pain, they're going to come in, they'll buy quickly. Whereas the people who are preventative, obviously take a little bit more education. That's where it's actually very similar to the finance thing I was saying earlier.

We're pushing to either virtual or in-person, events, giving away lots of information for selling more. more complex products tends to do really, really well in your space. And so I would probably go social ads to workshop, virtual or in person, and then sell from there into your stuff. That would probably be my strategy if you wanted to get to 25. Because I don't think, I mean, you probably can't increase your spend on PBC that much more anyways.

True. Like webinars, things like that. Okay, cool. Yeah. So you can do them virtually or you can do them in person if you want. Cool. Yeah, because if you do it in person, where are you out of? Florida.

Florida? Yeah, I mean, you could probably run a 50-mile radius in Florida and do an in-person one and people still show. So, like, that would be, that would be like a, because it's much easier to get people to, it's a very easy funnel for in-person if you're local. Like, it's literally just lead gen, call, schedule, remind the hell out of them. Expect 20, 25% to show up of your leads, 20, call it. And then from there, you'll close a third of the room.

I mean that's a very simple model so I'd probably start there and then as you kind of like get more familiar with it Get the pitch down etc then you can go online and then do the nation That help? Thanks pretty yeah you bet