The Game with Alex Hormozi - Define the Win or You’ll Never Hit It | Ep 940

Episode Date: January 29, 2026

Welcome to The Game w/Alex Hormozi, hosted by entrepreneur, founder, investor, author, public speaker, and content creator Alex Hormozi. On this podcast, you’ll hear how to get more customers, make more profit per customer, how to keep them longer, and the many failures and lessons Alex has learned and will learn on his path from $100M to $1B in net worth.Wanna scale your business? ⁠⁠Click here.⁠⁠Follow Alex Hormozi’s Socials:⁠⁠LinkedIn ⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠Facebook⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠YouTube ⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠Twitter⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠Acquisition ⁠

If you are not good at predicting what is going to happen next, life will be hard for you. And the better you get at predicting what's going to happen next, the more you will get what you want. And so then being able to predict what's going to happen requires an accurate framework of how reality works. And I think that that's where, you know, if you've lost everything and then you can rebuild it again, it's because you accurately view reality and it wasn't luck. You can redo it again. And so for me, I think a big part of it, It was like, I find like the most people don't know what they're saying most of the time.

Like the vast majority of people spend their time regurgitating and repairting things that they never thought about. And so I think that the single greatest razor that I have for defining reality more accurately has been removing all sentiment, emotion and quote psychology from the equation and only looking at it from a behaviorist frame of what can I observe? We put out a lot of content. Yeah, I do. I do. And I can imagine you all. Do you have help what I've imagined.

So everything, so the reason that I think the brand has been consistent across the board is because I do all content that goes out is me. So basically anything that's written I wrote or is a transcription of something I said. So those are like, if I said it, I'll stand by it. And so like captions on Instagram are just tweets. LinkedIn posts or transcriptions and or transcriptions plus tweets. or many tweets put together. But X is still my, my, like, core. That's like my home base.

X's were my source of truth, and then everything kind of springs from X. So you put out two or three or four a day. You're like, you probably scroll the comments, and you probably get inspiration. Like, oh, I'm seeing a lot of people say this thing. Dude, no, not at all. So the only tool I use is a tool

that allows me to schedule things in the future. And so, like, I'll have a conversation with you and something will come up and I'll be like oh that was a pithy thing I just said and then I'll just put it to whatever my next tweet you know moment is and then it'll come out whenever it comes out and so that's that's like my tweet strategy and then the team when I do like the live streams or whatever like the team's behind the camera here and you know I've got one or two of my guys who's like taking notes I'm like oh that was a cool thing you said and then they'll send it to me afterwards and then when I go and make tweets in bulk which I do like every once in a while

They'll just send me a shitload of quotes that I've said, and then I'll just, you know, massage the edges and then post it. What percentage of your time per week is dedicated just like contact creation? So as of right now, I do one recording day a week, which is like four hours. And then on weekends, I spend about two hours on written, so six hours-ish. And when you're sitting down to Rice, do you ask your supple questions? Like, what's something that I learned today? Or I don't know. No. Not really.

No, honestly not. I just like, I think you Chuck does this as well, and you do this too. You taught in sound bites, but you use fake in frameworks. I don't think like that at all. It does not come naturally to me. And whenever I hear you, or we have a mutual friend, Ryan Dice. Yeah. And Ryan was like, he was like, he was like,

make me feel like jerk. He was like, you don't think in frameworks? Like, how do you learn something and then think how you're going to teach it to your team or whatever? I'm like, I don't know, man. I'm like a Neanderthal. Like, I just kind of like flip by life sometimes and I just like, I don't like reflecting think in a framework. I think frameworks happen when you have to reteach or reuse the same thought process over and over again. And so rather than re-deriving the same decision set, you create a framework to give yourself mental shorthand.

And so I think it's just like, I created the scaling. You wrote the implementation workshop, like the Mosey 6 or whatever. It's like more metrics, market, model, money. And then underneath the model, there's four offshoots. And then finally manpower. So it's like these are the six reasons that people get limited in their business, right? And that was because I had to think like, okay, I have done so many Q&A calls. There has to be, there is a decision trade.

Like it might be more complex than I thought it was, but there is a decision tree that I'm going through. And so just actually crystallizing that. And so you totally think in frameworks, you just haven't documented them. that's my that's my two cents that's my opinion well you had this cool uh like i've been watching you i think i told you the other day i was watching your concept now on tactics of making money but on tactics of leadership and management and you had this cool thing called the diamond yeah it's great do you remember what it was yeah do they not do that oh it was like basically for the listener it was like uh you have an employee is out doing what you want them to do

they're either they don't know what you want done they don't know how to do it so they they weren't motivated or they don't know i think when they you want to yeah Or there's something blocking them. Yeah. And when you come up with something like that, is that something that you make up or do you read other books and you steal like cool bits of inspiration and you re-cook some for your? So honest truth, I really don't read as much as I probably should. Most, almost all my stuff just comes from like me doing it and then saying, man, there's got to be an easy way to describe this. If I happen to come along some sort of, you know, if there's some cohesion.

I see that as corroboration of an idea. But yeah, no, I really don't consume anyone else's stuff for, for like inspiration. I, like, I have enough shit going on every day. I have tons of stuff to talk about. And so, yeah, no, the management document was like, all right, fundamentally, people don't do stuff for a reason. I have to figure out what that reason is. And if there's a way that I can have a framework that I can have for this conversation

that makes it less like, how do I not attack the person? Right, rather than say, like, you are a lazy piece of shit. It's like, that's unlikely to be productive and also probably not the real cause of why they're not doing things. why they're not doing things. Because most people do prefer to stay employed and also prefer to do a good job, I think by and large. And so it's like, if we take that to be true

and I want them to succeed and so do they, then like, what's getting in the way here? It's like, well, I didn't communicate that I wanted them to do this thing. Okay, well, that's on me. I didn't tell, like, I told them, but then they're like, cool, I don't know how to do that.

That's a training issue. Okay. You know, they didn't know there was a deadline associated with, that's a when problem, right? And then it's like, okay, well, they knew when to do it, they knew how to do it. And then, and they knew that I wanted them to do it. Then it's like, okay, well, then is there something blocking them?

Now, the motivation one of like they're not motivated to is like technically correct, but it's the last one that I'll go to because most times people are relatively motivated to do it. Now, mind you, there's definitely times when that's just not the case, right? Or the how component has a more generalized skill that someone doesn't have. So I'll say differently. like if in order to do a role, my position is, like, you probably heard like attitude versus aptitude. And that used to bug me a lot because I was like, well, that can't always be what it is, right? Because it's really just that's there's, there's a deficiency in someone's skill set to enter an organization to do a role.

And so we want to hire for the small skill deficiency. If you're hiring for what people consider low skill labor, so if you run an Airbnb need maids or you have a yogurt shop and you need to have people who do, you know, clean the counter and like check people out, that's very low skill, technically. But in terms of hiring, you're going to hire for attitude, not aptitude. And that's just because the amount of skills required to train someone on attitude far outweigh the skills it takes to take somebody who's already friendly, knows how to show up on time, can smile, say hello, makes chit chat, teach them how to use a cash register and clean the thing. It could take like two hours.

Like it's not a lot of training in order to do that role. And so it doesn't make sense to hire someone for aptitude. Like I've worked a cash register before, but I'm a dick. It's like, well, that's not going to be very, like, I'm going to have to train you to not be a dick. It's not worth it. On the flip side, if you want to have the number one AI researcher in the world, if that guy's a bit of a dick, then you can probably work with him on being a little bit better at communicating with the team. You're not going to take the person who was, you know, the yogurt store cashier register, assuming they'd take no, you know, they're not on the side doing all this stuff, and make them the number one AI researcher. And so it's like we always just should, at least in my opinion, hire for the person with a small skill deficiency.

And then we have to ask the question as the business owner, given that scope efficiency, is it worth us or worth our resources to train them? And so I take the business in that I think every skill is trainable. It's just, is it worth training? Like, are there other people I get higher returns on, in which case, great, I'll use them. And that for me is fundamentally like why I would say that over my career, the biggest change in terms of my hiring practices is I hire far more for general intelligence now. It's like, yeah, I want someone who has just significant.

a higher horsepower. Higher course power above attitude and above skill set? Yes and no. So it's like basically the intelligence will allow someone to bridge the skill gap faster. And so it's a return on resources for where they are versus where they need to be, whether it's a quote, attitude issue or quote, hard skills issue. But I see soft skills and hard skills is just skills. You know, hard skills are easy to define and measure.

Soft skills are just hard to define and measure, but they still are definable. measurable. And so I want somebody who has high intelligence because I define intelligence as rate of learning. And so if I can get someone who has a high rate of learning versus somebody else, maybe that person starts a little bit behind, but in six months they're going to pass the other person who might have experience. And so, again, it all depends on what the timeline is. If I take a toddler, I can get them to be an adult in 18 years and be perfect, but I don't if I have 18 years to wait. And so, you know, that's kind of my general rubric. When you're hiring for smart people, how do you figure out they're smart?

The quality of the questions that they ask. So if someone said, hey, I noticed that you guys have this media brand here and you have this advisory practice here, have you considered, what's revenue retention around that is there's another vehicle that you guys have considered that isn't in the pipeline right now? I'd be like, wow, that demonstrated that they did a fair amount of research and they were able to take a complex thought between these two things and ask me about it. So like, that's a great question. Whereas if someone says like, you know, what's the five-year vision of the company? I don't say that as a bad question. I just see that it's like kind of a generic interview question someone might ask. And if that's not already answerable online, which, you know, the pros and cons of our situation similar to you is that a lot of my stuff is public.

And so I expect somebody to come in with better than generic questions because I've already answered generic questions publicly. If they ask one of questions and then, oh, when they deconstruct a problem that they're solving in terms of what they're thinking with. So, I mean, this is, to be fair, this isn't like my invention. But like in the consulting world, people do cases for a reason, right? They want to hear how, like, okay, if I need, how many, you know, how many ping pong balls fit on a 747, right? This is a common question they would ask in, you know, a college interview not because they care about the answer. They care about how you think through getting the answer because it demonstrates a level of horsepower. And so for us, I would say a practice that acquisition.com we use, especially at our higher level in leadership roles, is we actually, instead of presenting them hypothetical,

cases, we actually present them with the real cases. And so, you know, worst case, we get free consulting, best case, we get somebody who is capable of implementing that solution that they just came up with. And so if they can use frameworks that I wasn't aware of, experiences that I'm not aware of, those things will come out in that, you know, complex, you know, issue that we're dealing with. But it's also at least like way more interesting of an interview for me, because now, like, they're solving my problem, so I'm like way more engaged. So does that be best, like, the hiring manager or maybe you would have someone at the company has like a generic description of the company and what some of the numbers are. Maybe they're like big numbers even. And then each

role will have a specific problem that you need help solving for a company and they get like a Google doc like you're in advance. It's like prepare your thought and send us me in advance. I'm going to read it. So I'll differentiate this by level of role and type. And so I'm talking because right now I'm like knee deep in like C level like interviews. So that's like, like what I'm thinking with right now. If we're trying to hire an editor or a salesperson, those are roles that are super repeated and as a result have incredibly structured,

you know, interview processes and whatnot. And so for those, like for a salesperson, for example, it's like we're going to send a script to every candidate that we want to invite to a group interview first. And so they're going to get the script ahead of time. And we want to hear them do, you know, a one minute, two minute sound bite of the script.

So if they didn't even take the time to like, go through a few times like they're going to sound horrible. And so immediately either they don't have the skill or they don't have the work. Either way, we can weed those people out. And we can tell within a couple minutes. So we don't need to waste a 30 minute call on somebody who wants to be a salesperson. We can have 10 people on the call one or two minutes and we can find out if someone's got a little bit of game. From there, it's like, okay, then we'll say, hey, you mess this thing up, tweak it, try it again.

When we do that, we get to see how coachable they are, how much ego they have and how quickly they can learn, intelligence. And so from there, we're like, great. I actually read a book that you suggest this. The guy who HubSpot did HubBot sales team wrote that book. Yep. Yeah. And it's funny because it's like we ended up re-deriving the exact same interview process as the book. And so it was very corroborating. He actually says that IQ is the number one.

He's like charisma is important. But it's not the most important. No. Ability to learn quickly. And I think part of the first. of that also because like they were selling to business owners and you know so do we and most most of our portfolios B2B and so like if a salesperson is being like outgunned consistently by you know the people that they're getting on the phone with the people on the phone feel like they're talking to

somebody's an idiot and can't actually help them solve their problem and so yeah I think general intelligence is such an important part but like honestly it's it started there but like I kind of just see it across the organization like show me exceptional organizations that employ dumber people like it's I mean there are some but especially in the in the in the in the work that we do B2B and higher level, you need horsepower. So in terms of intelligence, like rate of learning, and we can actually demonstrate them learning on a small level. And that works, same thing with editors.

We follow a very similar process. Here's some raw footage. Send us a clip back with your edit. We can look at just the final output. And that allows us to be more objective about, like, some people don't present well, but that doesn't mean they're bad editors. And I think like interviewing itself is a skill, just like anything else. And I don't need somebody who's great at interviewing.

I need somebody's great at editing. Right. And so trying to pull that apart. And something that Layless taught me that's been really helpful, like for me lately has been, um, she's like, some people are incredibly smart, but are not very good at communicating. And depending on, um, depending on the role, they might not have as much need for that level of communication. And so that's where it gets a little bit more nuanced. But I want to be really clear. Yeah, sure. They talk to people that are very charming. Yeah. communicate honorfully. And I'm like, I can't fall big into this. you know what is it there was a it was a like always go for an ugly surgeon or something like that like uh there's some there's some there's some razor uh that i just wanted to put my my little disclaimer out there which is like i by no means claim that we are perfect at hiring or anything like that we just like everybody we take our licks but i'd say the hardest ones are always leadership because you have fewer like you might appreciate this um whenever i whenever i go into a room

of entrepreneurs i say hey who here is on more than is is on their second business or beyond and like almost the whole room raised their hands. I'm like, okay, cool. Now, of those of you who are on your second business and beyond, who here, your current business grew way faster or past your first businesses and like almost the entire room raised their hands. And I always think like, so why is that?

And so I think that at the most basic level, it's pattern recognition, but especially when it comes to talent. And so like if you think about building like, let's say a million dollar business, it's like first you have us, you have some marketing function, you have some sales function, you have some delivery function, you know, whatever.

you know, across the board. And for the first time ever, when, as soon as you know, maybe a million, maybe it's three million a year, whatever it is, like, it's not you anymore. Like somebody else has to do some of this stuff. And so you find, you get your first pattern recognition of like, oh, this is somebody who can do some advertising. This is some person who can do some low level management.

This is a person who can do some, low level management. This is a person who can do some, you know, some delivery or whatever. And so, and you basically keep struggling and keep plateauing at that level until you find that one person who's like competent. And then you're like, oh my God, you can do the job. This is amazing. And then the business grows until that next level, you know, that next change rate. And so then across the board by department, one by one, it's like you have these six-month,

12-month periods where you go through interviews and interviews and hiring and onboarding just to see if this person's competent. And then whenever they're not, you're like, I have to start over again. And then the business basically stays where it's at. I think the more experience we've had on each of these roles of like, this is what, you know, SDR looks like, this is what an SDR looks like, this is what a senior closure looks like, this is what a closing manager looks like, this is what, this is what a closing manager looks like, This is what a director of sales looks like.

This is what a VP of sales looks like. Like it took me time to learn each of these levels and obviously do that across departments. But then after that point, when you go out these new businesses you go after, you're not even building the business. You're just assembling it. You're like, these are all the pieces that are required to make this business. Who have you hired recently that is significantly better than you or has taught you something? Because you're in the rule now where you have to do all talking and a lot of the teeth. Yeah.

For your eye youth and at your workshops and with companies that you work with. Yeah. Who's K2? Uh, Sheran does. Sharon's a transgender president. Um, he's so knowledgeable on the, I mean, he's so knowledgeable on a lot of different things. But like, you know, he said two, he's had two plus billion dollar companies. And so obviously acquisition is, you know, the third that, you know, we're shooting for, depending on, you know, when we have our third priority validation.

But basically it's like the bigger the company gets, I feel like the better he gets. You know what I mean? Like the more in his wheelhouse he is in terms of, you know, um, the more in terms of, um, you know, like data pipelines, infrastructure, real-time dashboards. How can we, like, how can finance get weaponized? I would say that Leila, like, strong so good at the finance function and understanding just like, just tax ramifications, entity structure, like just a lot of the things that I, you know, for me, my acumen is on like,

how do we let people know about it? How do we get them to give us money for it? How do we make sure that they really like it and tell their friends? Like, that has been basically the core of my skill set. And everything that's not that. It's the last thing you said there is up product. Yeah, yeah, exactly. But everything outside of that is definitely not what I would say, like, my core core.

It's like, Layla's so good at that, like, a lot of what we were talking about there is me somewhat relaying Layla's, you know, Zika, or, you know, Layla's MO around people and people and talent. But Tron's so good at, like, like, enterprise value structuring, just like a lot, just a lot of the things that, you know, a public CEO would be good at. And that's what he comes from. But he also is like, and I would say like from an observation personally, like the true A a, A talent, one, they're not employees. They are partners. And they see themselves as partners. And if you don't see them as partners, then they are not a plus talent.

How do you treat a partner differently than an employee? Like, how would I know if I own partner? Well, I think if you go to them because you're not sure what to do and they're giving you advice, to me, that's a partner. If you're constantly directing them and saying, this is what we're going to do, this is what we're going to do, there's nothing wrong with that. But they're not a thought partner. And I also use that as a great limit test for the true C-level executives that we have. Is like, do I want to talk to this person about this complex problem?

If I don't seek their advice, then it means that I don't see them as a value add. And so then they're not like they're not super essential, which is not good. But yeah, so I think that and then the other piece, and this is something, again, I feel like I've learned more recently. because I'm super deep in sea level stuff right now. But it's clouds to dirt. So vertically integrated, full stack skill sets. And so, like, I think, like, the best sales leaders can go, like, they can hop on the phone and get a cold lead to book an appointment from an SDR level

all the way to building sales strategy of, like, which starts to merge into marketing, right? It's like, what kind of messaging do we need to look at? What kind of avatars have the highest likelihood of buying stuff, how can we weave that into our process and our scripting? How can we, you know, cut our training time and onboarding new rep? Like, they're really thinking about the sales organization, but they can also do almost every job. And I just have yet to find, like, truly exceptional people that aren't full stack. What do you have to offer to them other than market rate or above market rate money? It's growth and impact. Like, if you were to ask everybody in the company,

Acquisition.com, what's the number one thing that they come for? It's growth. Like they say like none of those companies are like not none so a lot of those companies aren't growing at the rate that we're growing and so there's so much career advancement and opportunity. We are very meritocratic meritocratic. There you go. And so like anyone can come here and move up independent of age, you know, even independent of tenure. Like we had a guy who came here 90 days ago and got a very large promotion after coming in at a pretty high role already just because he demonstrated he was great. and we're like great we have this opening we think you'd be the best fit. Or like a lot of businesses are like growing only 20 or 20% of year. I don't know.

Some like fine but mediocre number and it's like where do they start if they don't have growth in order not grow in terms of just the money paid people to growth in order to impress the great people still. I think it all depends on like the opportunity and the level of like the pool that you're competing against. You know like if you are an AI true AI company you know it is super competitive. On the flip side, though, like, if someone's going to start a new division for us, I can just say, like, I can guarantee you demand.

Not a lot of people can do that. And so, like, it's not a question of whether this will work or not. Is this the best use of the demand that we have? And so it becomes an opportunity cost question. But a lot of people, in some ways, it's like it's less risky to come to ACQ because we have so much demand and there's just, there's so much opportunity. That's basically like if you're working for Jimmy said, you know, use a different brand. Like Mr. Beast, like he has virtually a limitless demand.

And so if he's like, hey, can you help me spin up whatever, pick a, pick a random thing. If Mr. Beast was going to say, hey, let's start an umbrella brand, it doesn't mean, like he for sure will sell umbrellas. It's just not the best use of his resources, right? So it's like we need somebody you can come in, recognize the best vehicle for the demand that we have and then be able to obviously execute it on it. But a lot of people don't have that built-in guaranteed, you know, they just don't have that. And so that becomes actually significantly riskier despite, you know, what other, quote, perks might exist. So it's like you've guaranteed demand, you have basically guaranteed growth as fast as you can grow, we can grow. And that's, and we also still pay exceptionally well.

And so with those things you put together, we can get very, very good talent. And there's also people that are just very mission driven. Like we have a lot of people who come in and are like, I've consumed your stuff for a year. and I saw the recruiter reached out to me and I was stoked. And that was it. Like there's just, in some ways it's like, you know, private equity number 17, it's like they're all, it's almost, it's just commoditized, like their business is commoditized. It's just not that interesting.

And so they have to compete on price. And so their price is their comp. Whereas if you have a value proposition, like what's the, what's the grant slam offer from an employee perspective rather than a grant slam offer from a product perspective? Because it's still the exact same process of acquiring talent as it is to acquire customers. customers. It's just a reverse funnel. Yeah. So we could say, uh, what's like a really? A salesperson. That's a simple one. Uh, but I'm hiring other roles. I'm powering, um, chapter leads. So we have 13 chapters that we, uh, they send a, we have a hiring, give a manage each chapter. I mean,

the easy answer is settling, but it's so tough because there's, there's trades because these things don't exist outside of time. You know, it's like, I have to fill this role. And I want to find somebody, obviously for us at the C level, because that's what's top of mind for me. It's like, I have to have somebody that when I'm on the phone with them, I'm thinking, I have to have this person. And if I don't have that, but I'm like, man, I really need this role. And so if I'm thinking from the like, I really have to fill this role angle, it's like usually not the right person. If I'm thinking like, I don't even care if I have a role for this person, I have to get them in, it's usually the right person. Are you willing to pay them more than you originally thought with it?

Yes, 100%. Not even a question. Break out a lot. Yep. And also if you ever been like I got to come up with enough money like I will buy I can get enough sales to before this person But I have to happen I haven't had the second part because we're super cash flow positive company so like that hasn't been a problem I mean fundamentally as long as I can just pencil out the ROI of the role then yeah, I'll do it I mean it's just a return on capital like that's and I still see the What's your desire to return up?

Amazing Well it's like I mean it's I still think the high school sheets allow you to quit amazing Yes, mind it. I think the highest returns on capital we get as entrepreneurs as talent. Like full stop. Like where else do you get 10x, 20x returns, 100x returns, and can do so reliably? Like talent is one of those places you can do it. I will also say that typically the higher up the org, the higher the arbitrage.

We continue to get faster. I'll say that. I think we get faster. I would say that our firing practices, do somewhat rely on the constraint. So like sometimes, you know, Laila says this, but like some fires aren't kitchen fires. They're like the trash can and the driveways on fire.

It's like it's a problem. Like we'll get to it. But it's not the thing that's limiting the business. And so if we have somebody who's not as good as they should be, but they're not in a role that's right now like limiting the company, it's probably not going to be our first priority to take them out. But as soon as that becomes the constraint, then it like quickly gets unearthed and then it gets handled.

That's like the realistic answer. I sensed a small bit in your voice where it sounded like potentially you were slowed to fire because maybe I'm raised to what's introduced to have the minute or your kind of voice. Yeah. I was like, I just don't like it. Well, I don't think anybody likes it. I think we're fast to fire if it is the constraint of the business and clearly that

person is the one limiting us. Like we will not sacrifice the company's growth and the opportunity of all the people who've trusted us with their careers to not have a comfortable conversation. There's also levels of this. And so like, let's say there's like, you know, red, yellow, green, right? If someone's like, well, green, they're great. Fine. So basically you've got maybe like yellow, orange, red.

Let's use that as the three levels. For me, like, if somebody's just not, doesn't have the complete competence, but it's not, like, they can still do their job, but they're not doing it as well as they should, and they're definitely not going to grow and they can't take on new opportunities, then that to me is like a yellow. If they're, like, for sure, like, they can't actually do their, their role right now, that's an orange. Red is like, you can't do the role right now and that thing is required for us to grow.

And so that's kind of like I'd say like, it's a combination of like what is the business need and how incompetent is the person. And so the rates of firing, I think, would depend on both of those things. Obviously, like in a perfect world, we get everyone out who's not a fit as soon as humanly possible. It's just that sometimes some people do turn it around with good feedback and coaching. That probably happens half the time. And so, you know, people are messy.

And also, like, we have a reputation too. We don't want to, like, we don't want to be seen as, you know, brutal employers. But at the same degree, like, we are intense and people do work a lot here. How do you kind of talk about being patient all the time, but you're moving out of wicked, a wicked pakes and dating was all. I think the patience is relative to the outcome that you're going for. And so, like, if you, if you're trying to climb Everest, right, your rate of ascension in terms of altitude is going to be significantly faster than somebody who's trying to climb a

foothill. The percentage growth will might be the same though. And so a patient person might be willing to grow at one, two, three, four percent per year towards their ultimate Everest. But it's just that four percent of Everest is significantly faster than four percent of a foothill. And so the absolute difference will be different, but the relative difference, which is like what I'm, quote, measuring myself against is where I feel patient. And I think that's where the whole macro, you know, macro speed, sorry, macro patients micro speed is super important. It's like we still need, we still have deadlines. We still need to move the ball forward, but still have to act with urgency.

We still have to ask the question of like, what would it take in order to do this in half the time? What would it take for us to do this in a fifth of the time? And can we do that? Let's do that. And I think I honestly see a lot of the job of the manager or the driver or the operator, depending what term you want to use, as doing that, which is just consistently pulling, like pulling the future forward faster.

And like when you're having it, you know, even at the tactical level, like you're having a team meeting and you say, hey, when can you get that done by? They'll give you a date and then like the fall, like, you know, a level one manager, level zero manager doesn't ask when there's when the deadline is. A level one manager would be like, would just accept the deadline. Like a level two manager would be like, well, what else do you have that's blocking you right now from getting that done? And they might say, well, I have these three things.

And at that point, they might say, well, this is more important in those things. So do this first. And then with that new knowledge, what is your new deadline? And they might say like, okay, instead of end of, week I can get it you know two days earlier than that it's like okay how many actual hours do you think this work will take and they might say like well I think it'll probably take four hours and it's like okay well it's noon now so why is in and out four o'clock today right and I think somebody who's willing to continue to ask those questions and they're like well I could do it you know

today and I just wanted to give myself some time it's like well why right and so I think that's that consistent pulling forward and the thing is it's almost like many confrontational conversations that I think are required in order to move an entire organization at breakneck speed. I mean, I look at Elon a lot, you know, as an inspiration from a business perspective. And all of his competitors talk about that, just like the maniacal sense of urgency that he carries. And I think a lot of it is that is just like consistently challenging, like, what would it take? And is it worth us doing? Like, is it worth it for what it would take?

And if the answer is yes, then let's do it. And a lot of people kind of like, they make their decisions within their frame or their realm of reality. when that's not based on anything besides their own conjecture or some arbitrary time of what they think it should take. So how do you think that people get their standards to be raised to this extreme level? Like were you around other extreme people and you're like, oh my gosh, there's so much more to do. That's now the standard. Or do you think that some people are just born extreme and they just get there and they bring others to that level? Does that make sense?

Yeah, I think it's probably a nature and nurture question. And to be clear, I don't know the answer. This is just my two cents. I think I've always been a really intense person. Like my father, my whole upbringing used to always say like balance. He's like, you're so unbalanced. You're so unbalanced. Because like as soon as I'd find something, I would just want to do nothing besides that thing

until I had like finished it or, you know, whatever it was. And so I do think there's a component of that. The other aspect, though, is like I for sure have had, call it, beliefs broken, you know, frame shifts from people who were ahead of me. Like me even observing Elon, you know, you know, it stretches the horizon of what, you know, I think we can accomplish. And, you know, it's actually in some ways very refreshing to think, like, okay, you know, where was Elon when he was 36, right, versus, you know, 56 or whatever, you know,

however old he is now. And he said had such an exponential crescendo in his career that to me, it's like, it's actually very, like, inspiring that it just, it just takes time. And a lot of that, I think what takes time for entrepreneurs is there's just so many skills required to be a good entrepreneur. and you have to be like very good at all of them. And I think that's why it's just that's why I see entrepreneurship is the single greatest path of personal development.

Like you get real-time feedback that you suck. And then at some point, most of us on some level get to a level of success and then say like this is enough or I'm not willing to make the tradeoffs beyond this point in other areas because it depends on the entrepreneur that you ask. But I would say the vast majority of entrepreneurs

want to win the game of life and business is a component is one of the games within the larger game of life. Some people get lost to whatever game they're in. Or they just consciously choose that that game is more important to them. I mean, like, Steve Jobs accomplished a lot. I think there's been a lot that's been documented about his personal life suffering, you know, as a result of his professional career. You could make an argument that he was amazing, net positive for humanity,

but on the micro level, he lived a harder existence. Elon is probably another one of those people. A lot of people wouldn't want Elon's life. And he says you wouldn't want my life. And I think we should believe that. And so I think it's just like what trades we're willing to make. And I think about that's probably a lot of my, a lot of my free like shower time right now is like when you know the price of the thing you want, like it's okay to go into a store, see something you like and then not buy it. Why are you questioning that now?

Is it because you just had the suit to launch and you like hit a hit a milestone that you're like, oh my God, I wanted this. the whole time and I kind of really got it and maybe I didn't want it to work as much as they want or well I had a confluence of three things happened within 30 days so I had called a four plus year project come to an end which was a lot of my shower time was around the whole hundred million dollar series and the culmination of the money models launch so that was one there was obviously you know a financial outcome that was you know quickly you know happened at the launch that's the second thing then the third thing is my mother died within 30 days and so it was a very interesting mix of different emotions within that period of time. And so I have, you know, I've had a lot of time to

reflect on like what are the things that matter most. And so like in writing, I mean, I think everyone's heard the advice like write your own eulogy and then try to live that way, except most people don't actually take the time to write their own eulogy. But in writing her eulogy, it was interesting to see like what portion, if we had a pie chart of this eulogy is going to be dedicated to her accomplishments. And she was a relatively accomplished person. compared to the rest of it, which was about service and character. And the vast majority of it was service and character. And so in thinking about that, it's like, okay, well, then if I were to apportion my time

based on what my eulogy percentages would be, I would probably not have the same pie chart that I do now. That being said, you know, life has a lot of years. And so maybe that slice of pie chart that's the first two or three sentences or whatever might be 15 years. and then there's just another period of 15 years afterwards or 30 years afterwards that are a different slice of that chart. Yeah, if you live, right? If you live, like she had a freak accident. So hers was a sudden death.

And so, yeah, so that's what I think about a lot is the tradeoffs. Because I think most of like, because obviously I have a lot of content that's going out there just because people tend to ask me stuff about hard work. And the reason I think I tweet so much about it is because it's always top of mind for me. So like I don't have a, we talked about this at the beginning, but like I don't have a content schedule. or I don't have like a, you know, I'm looking at trending tweets and thinking, oh, how do I do my own spin on this?

Like, that's not how I make content. I tweet whatever is top of mind. And the things that come out are the things that I'm thinking about. And you can kind of like see the trends of whatever I'm thinking about a specific season, but if you just take the aggregate of like a month of tweets, it's like, oh, Alex is thinking about this right now. I think there's two things that I think big entrepreneurship part. Number one is uncertainty.

It's just the absolute kind of like soul-crushing uncertainty that is always present throughout your day, every day while you're making decisions. and it's just always this idea like you might lose and you don't know. And then the other component that makes it so difficult is the known quantities that you believe that you're going to have to trade in order to get the unknown. I guess there is some uncertainty there too. The unknown upside. And so it's like we can always quantify the downside, the thing that we trade, and we cannot

quantify the upside. And so I think about that a lot because I think a lot of entrepreneurship, a lot of entrepreneurs that I see, especially common with like, you know, the lifestyle entrepreneurs because I get tons of flack from that community, which is interesting because this was like, you just, you were not willing to make trades that I was willing to make, and there might be other trades that Elon's willing to make that I'm not. And that's okay. Like I just, I just see that it's like, we all get to whatever level that we're willing to trade, trade for. But I just see them as tradeoffs. And I think most of the regrets that people have are wanting the upside

from a decision or a path not taken without taking into account the downside that they didn't suffer. What's the pie chart like now? I mean, I think, I think for now, it's, I think for now, It's almost entirely business. I would say like I probably have 15% that's probably dedicated to like marriage stuff, like marriage, Layla stuff. And probably 15% that's dedicated to like health stuff. So probably like 70% work. 15 health, 15 marriage.

What do you think when you're in a, when you're thinking about what it should be? Do you ever think like, like, I would like a try on this stuff? I think I would love to see a world where like 25 to 30%. done his business. I'd love to see what happens there. I also think that there might be, like, and I say this understanding like the position that I'm in to say this, which is I'm approaching a point where more hours really doesn't, like so much more of it at this point will be the leverage of the decisions that I make more than the work that I do. But yeah, a lot of the leverages on the decision making. And maybe it's just that some of the bets that I made five years ago

have come to fruition and have paid off, which then just give more leverage, right? Because, I mean, fundamentally, output is just volume times leverage. And so, I mean, I could maybe make the algorithm if I did even more. Elon still works a lot. So if you do a lot of volume and with a lot of leverage,

you build rockets and build trillion-dollar businesses. So, like, you know, I don't say that, thinking that I'm somehow immune to it. 25% business. What else? Oh, it would probably just be a more even spread. It would probably be like maybe 25%, you know,

I think health will probably be still around 15-ish percent. I might change what I do there, but I think I have an appropriate amount from the health category. I assume I'll just, I'll bucket Lela as just family, wife at all. And then probably other pursuits. I'll still do business, but I think it would be, I just think the percentages will change.

You know what I'll just say that. I don't know what they are. I think they will change from what they currently are. I feel confident in that. What the non-dis is pursuit that you want to put in there, potentially? I don't know. And I think I need to create the space in order for that to get filled. Like, I don't think I will have a difficulty in finding things to fill my time.

I think the difficulties in... I don't know if you to have any... We're buddies, but... Yeah. We're not terrible close, but I... We're not that close. We're like... We're like...

I would say we're friends. We're doing each other for, uh, off and a couple years ago. And I had not known of you... I'm not known of you to be someone. has like I've never seen you show interest in top just like oh yeah I like a street I from cool I like buying clothes I think clothes are cool cars I like motorcycles uh like I have like hobbies where I'm like I'm passing in my XYD event and it's like a motorcycle show I'm like that's oh that's great I will love to see that or I like like music but I have never heard of you

to like anything other than your wife and work it out and business and business yeah Those have been my big three. I would say that I would define myself as for the first time in 15 years, not even 15, because I wanted to start making money when I was like 15. So I guess it's been 21 years. It's the first time in my life where I've been open to having other priorities. I don't know what they are. Like straight up, I don't know.

I don't know what they will be. And maybe I'll just discover that I like the life that I have now. But it's the first time that I've been like, huh, I am open to this mix changing. Andrew Ross Storkin. He's got this new book called Nike 29. I mean, in the middle of bringing it. You read Science Fission. And this book, 19909, it's about the great question and how it came to D.

And my biggest takeaway from this book so far, the most takeaway, but one takeaway is that the executives of the banks, they didn't work that part. And they were like, they were the JD Diamonds at the time. And their income was the equivalent of $100 million year. And like one guy had a routine where he's like, I'm up at six. I'm exercise.

I'm at the office at 10. I'm home by 5. Another guy had a similar routine as that, but then he would take off, he took somewhere off to go to Europe with family. And I read about some of these, like, I think Brian Halligan, he's the founder HubSpot just tweeted. He's like, you don't move, mountains working 9 to 5. And all these people, yourself included, and myself, is talking about hard work.

But I, like, see all these other examples. And I'm like, isn't it crazy how much you can get done by actually not working hard? And lately, I've been, like, insisted by those examples. Have you read about that? I haven't read about it, but I've definitely observed it with some people that, you know, are further ahead than I am. I think that, I think what's always difficult is, like, do I model the top of the mountain or do I model the climb? Like, am I trying to extrapolate how someone currently lives for what they did to get there? And that one's always a really dangerous one that I try and catch myself on, which is, like, you know, we're in different seasons.

And so I have to make sure that I'm comparing this person's spring, you know, to my spring, not. not my winter to their spring. I had lists don't many people where I beat people on Sam, like, you don't work hard at all. What the hell? Let's say, like, within your business, let's say that you could find the perfect Sam, just as a thought routine, right? The perfect Sam that you could hire

and whatever you could pay the perfect Sam to do and he could do everything you can do just as well as you can. It's like, so whatever your current profit is, minus Sam's compensation. If you could do that, then you would have almost the same amount of money you have now and maybe in two years, perfect Sam would grow the pie. so that you're making the same or more than you're making right now,

but you're still not working at all. And so if that's the case, then it's like we're always, like, in the hypothetical world, we're one higher way from somebody you could do 100% of what we're currently doing, and the business would be able to continue to grow. I think to that point about patience is like, but most entrepreneurs are like, well, I'll find that person, I'll give it to that person, and then I'll start the next job, whereas some of the people just say, like, I'm just not going to start that next job,

and then just be willing to let the company continue to grow with the team that I've assembled. And I think both like fundamentally if you work or you don't work, as long as the business performs these functions, it will grow. Have you ever bought or taken any courses and which one if you did? One's getting too deep. The biggest things that have really changed my life was actually like, have been like networks of people more than anything, like getting in the room with people who are ahead of me within the current realm or even across realms from me.

That was the stuff that really changed my life the most. sure from the tactical level, books, courses, things like that, workshop seminars, like those things absolutely. Like, I am a product of the alternative education world. Like, I have no reservations about that. I am. Some people were able to learn on their own. I was willing to pay to learn for people who were ahead of me, and it was more than, more than worth it. So basically there's two types of knowledge, right? You have declarative knowledge, which is knowledge about stuff, and then you have procedure knowledge, which is knowledge how to do stuff. The courses and DIY stuff is predominantly procedural, which is here's how you set up a landing page,

here's your right copy, here's how you structure a video sales letter or whatever, right? And then there's, I see that the networks and affiliations and when you meet people who are further ahead of you, those are where you get their, quote, belief, spoken. That's where you learn about stuff that you didn't know is possible. And that about stuff could be like, I didn't know you could work four hours a week and make that kind of money. I didn't know that real estate worked that way. I didn't know that the insurance industry was so profitable or whatever it is, right?

And those were, I think, where I have my order of magnitude increases. So it's like my incremental increases in business. We're always just, you know, developing more blocking tackling skills. Like, I have to learn how to do a webinar. I have to learn how to do a sales call. I have to, you know, all these things. But really, like, increment, like the large step function increases have been through association with people that were just way further ahead. And we're like, hey, man, let me tell you what the next five years looks like if you keep doing what you're doing.

This is what you need to do instead. And I was like, oh. And those are the things that really. changed the trajectory my life. Your list of people who you killed a meet and send time with their shadow for a day. I mean, most of mine are the obvious ones. Like, I would love to, I'd love to shadow Elon, I'd love to shadow Zuck, I'd love to shadow Bezos, I'd love to shadow, I'd love to shadow Bezos like 10 years ago.

Because actually, I'm not even sure what his, what he's doing, like, he's at Blue Origin and he's got, you know, I think he's got other things going on. but people who are in the thick of the game I love to because a lot of it is like how they think like what frameworks are they using to think through these decisions because they've made these decisions a bunch of times so like I'd love to just get that framework

because if I could apply that to my current state then I would move faster. What I listen to you I get envious not NDAIS but I think I have to step it up because I hear you learn these frameworks and I'm like that is crazy that he's memorizing this stuff but not just memorizing it, but he, when I hear him talk about it, I believe that he actually uses this

in his day-to-day life. Yeah. And I would like to get better at that. I'm just amazed at how much information you retain. Thanks. I think that the frameworks piece, like, there's probably a book that will come out of me along that topic, but it's more around viewpoints of the world and reality. And so, like, I think that if you are not good at predicting what is going to happen next, life will be hard for you.

And the better you get at predicting what's going to happen next, the more you will get what you want. And so then being able to predict what's going to happen requires an accurate framework of how reality works. And I think that that's where, you know, if you've lost everything and then you can rebuild it again, it's because you accurately view reality and it wasn't luck. You can redo it again. And so for me, I think a big part of it was like, or still is, I find, I find like the most people don't know what they're saying most of the time. Like the vast majority of people spend their time regurgitating and repairting things that they never thought about and saying words that they don't understand. Because if you ask someone when they say, hey, I think you should do this, I would just say like define that.

Or like, hey, my goal is I want to insert thing. Like, I want to feel great about myself. And I'd be like, well, what does that mean? And then they can't define it. I'm like, well, no shit, you haven't hit it. You can't even define what you're going for, right? And so I think that the single greatest razor that I have for defining reality more accurately has been removing all sentiment, emotion, and, quote, psychology from the equation and only

looking at it from a behaviorist frame of what can I observe. And just saying like, and so basically, like, if you were to, if you were to, if you were, were to, you know, alien comes on Earth or a toddler, depending on how you want to see it and say, like, hey, you know, what does trust mean? right like hey you're not very trustworthy i'd be like well what does that mean to you right and most times people will just say like a bunch of nonsense back to you and it's like well of course you don't know like and so i find that that's most people and that's why they can't they can't communicate well and as a result they don't receive communication well from the world because they don't like it's two people saying words that neither of them understand and then they're and then they just roll

a dash to see if they get what they want and that's how most people live their lives which is why they don't get what they want because they didn't define what they want and that's why i've been so like the beginning of every one of my books defines terms the beginning of all my books defines terms. The beginning of every legal document, there's a recitation of definitions. And it's like you need that in order to be precise about what you want. What's that mean? So like defining what a win would look like, what a success would like?

Well, those are like the big obvious ones. But underneath of that, it's like the day-to-day life that you have. It's like you ask your wife, it's like, I'd like you to be more loving towards me. It's like, well, what does that mean? Like, for real. Like, what is you saying the word, I need you to love me better mean? Does that mean, hey, when I walk in the door, can you come and give me a hug? That's observable.

I can see that. A court witness could say he came in and did that, right? And so, but like, again, this is like getting as granular as everything. If we just bring everything down to what is observable in reality, then we can all get to agreement. And I think that's where, like, I think the content that I have somehow seems both the same and different from the stuff that's out there. They're like, man, I'm just talking about marketing stuff. And like, he says things that I know, but he says in a different way. It's like, well, it's because I just think about it, okay, well, what is selling?

Right? And then a lot of people are like, it's a transference of feeling between two parties, you know, over a bridge of trust. Right? And I would say something like that 15 years ago. And I would yell at it a salesman. I'd be like, dude, sales is just a transference of belief over a bridge of trust. It's like, that sounds amazing. There's nice visuals.

It's like, but what the fuck does that mean? Like, how do I go transfer belief over a bridge of trust? I'm like, go transfer belief over a bridge of trust. And they're like, I don't know how to do that. Of course you don't. Of course you don't. I don't either. Right?

Of course you don't. Where's the bridge? Yeah. And how do I give them this belief, right? And so it's natural to use shorthand with language because it's faster to transfer ideas except neither party define the term. And that's where a lot of quote miscommunications come from. And so I think to be an accurate communicator, it's like we have to define terms before we

can actually engage in this conversation, which is annoying for some people, but it's also required if you want to have effective communication. And so for that whole like salesperson thing, it's like what is selling? It's increasing likely that someone makes a purchasing decision. Done, that's all it is. We just increase the likelihood. And so that is your job. It's to increase the likely to make a purchasing decision. And we know that there's a number of variables that affect that that percentage. And that's what the ones that we can affect that we can observe. And I think we just leave it there, but we get all of this hullabaloo and all of the manifestation and the

synchronicities and the energy and the man, all this crap out of there. And maybe that stuff's true but I can't see it so and so how do I transfer it I don't know and so I just talk about the observable world and has made my life so much better and my ability to predict what's going to happen next so much better dude isn't why I like by the way uh Dale predicate you how to win president and booth people very tactical 100% the takeaway that I don't want to have that why I think one of them will be you'd say someone's name yeah say someone's name because that's the but beautiful sound and the English thing yes very practical and another really practical I loved reading that more people should do, particularly if you're working internet world,

old school direct response copy writing books. So Claude Hopkins, David Oldovie, a little bit newer, Joe Shriguez, a little bit newer, Kennedy. I love reading those books. Those books are my favorite because they are the most tactical, but they also teach you about white. No, I did when I was, basically when I was in my like Rocky Cutteam of Learning Marketing, I read all that stuff.

I haven't read much of it lately because I feel like, you know the midwit meme? Yeah, yeah, yeah. I feel like the midwit meme is one of my favorite memes of all time because it's been so true for me in so many domains of my life. It's like, you know, when I started lifting, it was like, add more weight, eat protein, try hard. You know what I mean?

And like, do it over and over again. And that was like, that was it, right? And then I got into like, you know, periodization and like, you know, volume blocks and then, you know, peaking cycles and like, you know, we have to have undulating periods. and we have to have like, you know, this is better for perjury, this is better for stride. Like, in all this like complexity, right?

And then like fast forward now, it's just like, dude, just eat protein, add my way to the bar and, you know, thank your parents for your genetics, like whatever. Now, of course, the comments would be like, and Alex takes testosterone, which I've been public about, so deal with it. But like, yes, that's like, and so I think the same thing with marketing. And so, like, a lot of it is. Did your testosterone make you more Persian? I don't know.

Maybe, I think it's all genetics for the hair. At the PED is Bored Persian? Yeah. Um, if anything, I think, I think the testosterone would decrease the amount of hair I have on my head at least. Um,

but anyways, um, but yeah, but like with marketing, it's like, it's so much, so, like,

no persuasion occurs in the vague. Like, persuasion occurs in the specific. And so when it's like, oh, I know he, he just, like,

if you can articulate someone's pain to them, more accurately, then they can. They will buy what you have to sell without even hearing much about whatever your offer is. If someone describes every pain in their life in excruciating detail, you're like, if this guy knows this much about my pain, he has to know how to solve it. And what's also nice about pain specifically is that pain is more motivating the promise. And so it's also more compliant. Because if you think about what is a salesperson, what is marketing in general? We just simply motivate someone to take action. We increase the likelihood that they receive this message, they take it desired action.

And so it's like, well, then where is the basis of motivation come from, which is a super complex question. And so for me, motivation comes from deprivation. And we have to deprive the prospect or increase the perception of deprivation around the, you know, the action that's associated with whatever thing that we want them to do. Or so the outcome associated with the reaction we'll have them to take. And so that comes from like when people are like, the pain is the pitch, which is one of my little isms, is like, the pain is the pitch. Like if you can accurately do that, and it's not about like fancy words. It's not at all. It's, you know, it's short words, short sentences clearly defined that it takes no brain power to process.

And yet it still has emotional residence because of this specificity. So like lose weight fast probably worked as the first weight loss ad in 1930. And then everyone was like, wow, that's short words, that's amazing. But then they had to get like more nuanced. And so it's like you just have to keep breaking words down into like, what does that really mean? Like, what is that? Yeah.

Have you ever been like the overweight girl who wanted to take the photo instead of being the photo? You know what I mean? Yeah. No, and that's real. Like, have you ever walked on the beach and had your thighs chafed together? Have you ever always had a coverall when your friends were in a bikini? Like, have you felt weird about, you know, you were putting your own sunscreen on? Have you been, like, in pictures you said, like, do you duck out?

When you put your pants on that you used to wear, do you find yourself holding your breath for longer and longer in order to put them on. Like those are specifics. Right? And that's where copy is driven, which is why you have to know the customer, which is why, in my opinion, some of the best marketers,

like the truly goaded marketers can advertise pain that they have not experienced. But the vast majority of marketers who are good in specific spaces know the avatar because they are the avatar or at least were the avatar.

Just good words can sell way better than anything else. Yeah, I agree. Also, I actually think that that's true with content as well. If you're an educator, to be clear, if you're an entertainer, that's different. But like, if you're an educator, which most, you know, B2B, anybody who's a business, whatever, most businesses are, if they make content, is more on the educational side, whether you're a plumber or otherwise.

Like, you tell people about toilets and then people buy your stuff, right? Like, I did this experiment with my team because sometimes my editing team gets, like, they get cute. You know, they want to get fancy. So I said, hey, this next one, we're going to do the entire thing on an iPhone. All right, so the whole thing is on an iPhone. The audio is crap. that it's shaky, a guy's holding it, no tripod, like no, that's all it was, but it was just about like a concept that I knew was going to do really well, and it got like, you know, 1.7 or something,

almost 2 million views from that video. And I was like, we spend so much time in post on some of these videos and like, it doesn't matter. Now, it might matter a little bit. It might matter 10%, but how are we allocating our resources towards, you know, are we, uh, are we, uh, Are we appropriately out-egeting the resources towards the thing that's going to get us the highest return? And the answer is almost always no, because the words are the hard part. The words you have to think. And that's what most people will avoid. So, you know, I was going to be talked about 10 days ago or something like that.

I needed someone that I wanted to talk to you today because I enjoy their conversation. I don't want a plan. I just want to have a conversation with Alex and like, R. I made a joke. She was like, I want you to talk at sound like. I think they're the opposite. I don't want you to talk at any sound like. to see what's up and just catch up with you.

And I've never been did that. Oh, I am too, man.