The Game with Alex Hormozi - Demonstrate, Don't Describe | Ep 827

Episode Date: March 11, 2025

Wanna scale your business? Click here.Welcome to The Game w/ Alex Hormozi, hosted by entrepreneur, founder, investor, author, public speaker, and content creator Alex Hormozi. On this podcast you’ll hear how to get more customers, make more profit per customer, how to keep them longer, and the many failures and lessons Alex has learned and will learn on his path from $100M to $1B in net worth.Follow Alex Hormozi’s Socials:LinkedIn | Instagram | Facebook | YouTube | Twitter | Acquisition

So like if you guys take anything for me when it comes to advertising stuff, demonstration, demonstration, and the third rule is demonstration. Like you describing something with your words is so much less powerful than just showing it. And so if he says, hey, I'm going to talk about this guy, like click in, share screen, pull the guy up, show the group. It's such a visual platform anyways. You demonstrating the actual thing. I mean, AI Jack, if you've seen that whole thing, like I think a big reason why he gets a huge amount over is because of the demonstration that he's doing by doing the share screens. Let's let's rip.

Why don't you tell everybody real quick, what's the group? Give it a, give it a 60 second. Who do you help? How do you help them? So we basically run Alma Locker's community. It's a self-improvement spirituality community around helping people make mindset shifts so they can work better towards their goals, essentially. It's like a more practical approach to like manifestation, if you will.

Are you personal development? Yeah, we're in the category category. Okay, cool. We're actually ranked number one all time. And we're creeping in at the current school games. Must be nice. Must be nice. But yeah, so is there anything you want me to expand on before we jump in? Well, let's start with. So what are the features of the offer? So the features of the offer are essentially weekly coaching calls with the creator.

We have the community itself. Then we have courses. Alex, we actually had four points that we thought would be interesting to touch on, but maybe we can run them by you. Go for it. I'm taking notes. Awesome. The four areas that we want to touch on are. churn. We've got our churn down to 16 to 18%, but we want to get it down to even the low teens, so we wanted to see what we could do there. The second one was audience conversion rate. Our creator has around 450K on YouTube, and we've done some things that have worked pretty well to convert viewers into leads and then leads into purchases, but we wanted to see what else we could do. Third was ascension. This month, actually, we ran a one-time kind of accelerator, or as Calvin Hollywood calls it in a project community. It did about 22K, but that's a lot of

It's like a one-time thing. And so we were looking for ways to get more recurring revenue on the Ascension side. And then number four was how to create urgency for people to buy when there is no promotion or like discount or launch going on essentially. Yeah. I'm going to answer that fourth question first. And then we'll dive into the way that I would normally approach this. So this goes for everybody. I don't know if you if you know this, but inside of this lovely book, the last chapter is on naming.

And inside of the naming, we talk about having rotating seasonal, basically deadlines. It actually might be in the urgency chapter. But basically, I like to think about things as a fraternity party planner. So that means that every month there's always a reason, right? And so like, you know, my buddy got his wisdom teeth taken out, therefore we should drink. So that's what fraternity party planners. They're like, oh, I guess we shouldn't party tonight because I guess there's nothing special. like there's always something special it's someone's birthday it's the business's anniversary it's the

founder's milestone for something he did uh you know a year earlier when he started his youtube channel it's a milestone for how many people he hit on his subscriber base it's the first of spring it's easter it's holloline it's go back to school it's new year new me like there's always a reason that you can come up with in order to justify giving people um some sort of incentive uh to take the next action. All right. That being said, I would like big picture from a continuous basis, as much as I just explain that whole thing, do I think it matters? No. Like, whenever you have some of these kind of like deadlines, in my opinion, a lot of what you do is you just pull forward demand. So people who would have probably otherwise bought in a month just by now. And so does it necessary,

like there is this very famous case study in the U.S. with GMC, which is a big car manufacturer here. and there was a while some of the older people who were listening to this might remember this where they ran this thing called the employee discount which is basically they sold cars at the same price to the public as they do to their employees and it was like the biggest success of like of all time comma and then they realized that all they did was as soon as they stopped running it and they looked at the next four months their sales offset and they just pulled forward four months of sales, basically. And so they were like, okay, well, that didn't work and they no longer run that promotion. Right. And so again, I think in a local marketplace, sometimes it's helpful to have

it as a little bit of a wrapper for like why you're advertising something in a paid ads perspective. But since you guys are organic, for the most part, the platforms are generating in bringing in new demand on a regular basis. And so simply making the offer available to a new audience will typically be good enough. And on the return audience, it's just reminding them. It's reminding them that you exist, reminding them that this offer exists and not kind of shying away from it, I think like taking your CTAs seriously, but not too seriously, I think it's the goal. So sometimes you've probably seen these YouTube channels that are like two minute long CTAs. It's like, dude, this is too much. Like this is going to kill the video.

On the flip side, if you barely say anything about it at all, it's like it does, they don't think you're taking it seriously. So they don't take it seriously. So I think it's being like very purposeful like 15 seconds and I'm going to really explain what this is. You should take, you know, go do it. 15 to 30 would be my max for the CTAs that are in video. All right. So that's the urgency piece. Let's start from the way I would normally do this,

which is where customers are coming from. It's YouTube. So let's pull that up. So he's doing a video every two or three days. Great. Okay, so he's got some volume. Do you know how he's picking his topics? He's been doing this for a while and we've worked with him,

but he's been doing the YouTube far longer than we have. Yeah. So not too much. He kind of just sees what's working in the space. Okay. adds his own kind of twist to it. His own spin. I would recommend the same.

So I mean, obviously he's not on the call. So I won't spend too much time on this because you don't have, you know, as much control over it. Can you just click into one of those videos just so I can, so I can look at the actual video itself? Click in. I'm just going to look for CTAs.

Pause real quick. Okay. So right above the fold. So that's good. Let's see. Does he have first comment? Scroll down. Okay.

So opportunity there is that you should own the first comment because you'll probably change the description on a regular basis. So that's kind of tactic number one. First comment. Let's make sure that we have that. And if you're first comment and you're the person, then you almost always get upvoted. So you can do that or you can pin it. Either of those would work. And you will get clicks from it. So I can promise you that. Okay. So that's number one. I get my book in Amazon. Connect with me on Instagram. Did do do do do to doda. Thel disclaimer. Okay. That's fine. Do you know where the CTAs normally are? Usually the first link in the description. Oh, no, no.

in video. Oh, and he sometimes embeds them. So if he's like making a point, he'll make a point about someone in the community and he'll kind of reflect it back to that. So I would recommend because I didn't see it when he just, when Kirby just went through that. But I think it would be massive for you guys. And this goes for everyone if you're doing any kind of video content is demonstration. So like if you guys take anything for me when it comes to advertising stuff, demonstration, demonstration. And the third rule is demonstration. Like you just describing something with your words is so much less powerful than just showing it. And so if he says, hey, I'm going to talk about this guy, like, click in, share screen,

pull the guy up, show the group. Like, it's such a visual platform anyways. You demonstrating the actual thing. I mean, AI Jack, if you've seen that whole thing, like I think a big reason why he gets a huge amount over is because of the demonstration that he's doing by doing the share screens. So that's, that's number three. Okay. I'm not going to talk more about it besides make sure that it's in the first third because

you're just going to get probably double as many people who are going to see these CTA versus putting it kind of near the end. So share screen demonstration. All right. So now everyone clicks over. So let's let's follow the click path. And Alex, I should say that right now we're testing sending people straight to the about page. But usually it's not. Usually it's to a lead magnet. Okay. That's a topic that we wanted to hit on as well. Because I mean, sending straight to about is usually what we do because we do have it on emails as well to convert people. Uh-huh. Uh-huh. And maybe school will have something like that coming in the future. It might. I don't know. I don't know. You know, your guess is as good as mine. I'll kill the game for us. It's actually probably not as good as mine. Let's watch this thing. It's we can watch it at 2x. It'll take us it'll take us two and a half minutes and I think it's worth it. You may be asking yourself this question. Why am I so far behind? Why are there so many people out there that are making millions of dollars and I'm working this nine to five job? Is there something that I don't know that they know? And the answer to that is yes, there are things that they know that you don't know. But that's why you've been led to this community. I know the secret. I've mastered the art of focus, present moment awareness,

and knowing that I'm living in a simulation. And that's exactly what I'm going to teach you within this community. And you may be asking yourself, why learn from me? Why join my community? I am a direct descendant of one of Neville Goddard's VIP students, which is my grandfather, Elmer O'Locker Jr. And all of that stuff that Neville Gutter taught him, taught me. And I've used that. I went from being in prison for eight and a half years to getting out under three years, I manifested nearly a half a million subscribers on my YouTube channel, manifested two supercars, a super truck, a beautiful house, the physique of my dreams. I'm super healthy. I can manifest whatever I want to come in my life simply by using these techniques. And this is what I want to teach you. And I don't want you to completely rely on my

success. To speed up this, proof of how my techniques work. I want you to go off of the members and the people that I've coached, the success rate within my community right now. My community's been open for three months now. 93.7% of the members within my community that are actively doing the work, following the courses, doing everything that they're supposed to be doing within my community. 93% of them are seeing gains in their life. They're going to the next level. They're manifesting an entirely new life. And a high percentage of that changing transformations within three months of joining this community. And with all of that success within the community, I'm so confident that you will see success within my community, that I'm willing to offer you a five-day money back guarantee. If you sign up and you just don't like it, for any reason, you get your money back. That's how confident I am that you're going to enjoy it, that you're going to transform your

life through these methods, through these techniques, and through my community. But that's not all. Okay, I'm going to now walk you through the systems we have in place within the community, the entire community, but then you can decide for yourself. This is really a no-brainer. First of all, if you get three live calls with me every single week where I'm doing presentations, I'm doing presentations, I'm breaking all this stuff down. And I'm doing a Q&A every single Friday, to answer your course that's specific, that breaks each and every element down of how to change your exercises and the routines that you need to do to break free from the matrix to learn how to control the simulation with your imagination. And on top of all of that, you have

access to the sleep meditations, the morning meditations that have all of the brainwaves, which is alpha, theta and delta that are put together by me, designed specifically by me to impress your subconscious mind. But once you get all of that master down, then you can move on to the next level. And that next level is a Zoom mastermind with me that you get every single month. Once you unlock your potential to a certain point with the courses and your interactions within the community and you also have access to all of my exclusive content. Like all the live recordings that you can go back and you can watch all of these live calls that I've done. And I answer so many questions, I've taught my grandfather, everything that I know and how to manifest. And all the questions that I've

answered, they're all there available for you. Everything is recorded. One more thing that I don't want to leave out is the community itself, which is about a thousand members and we're all holding each other accountable. We're all giving each other reminders and posting our testimonials of everything that we're manifesting, which can be truly, truly helpful where you don't have access to this anywhere else but my community. And it's absolutely just amazing to see the progress that's growing within this community and how everyone is implementing the courses and everything that's helping with these processes of changing and just the progress of changing and the accountability part of it is priceless. And just to add some fun and excitement within the community. And just to add

the community. We do giveaways. Last month, we did a thousand dollar giveaway to an individual that's picked at random. Also a one-on-one call with me for another member and also a customized sleep meditation design specifically for that person. You know, we just give this stuff away within the community just to make it more fun and just the growth and just the engagement within and everything. It's so much fun. I love you guys and I will see you inside. So a couple things. Number one, success rate is very broad. Like, I don't know what it means. And so I think that if you were to define that a little bit clearer, it would probably do a little better. The second thing is I would want to make sure that the guarantee is described in a better way. And so I would probably

copy word for word the script that's right here inside of the offers book that I have earned a satisfaction guarantee, which is like, and to be clear, I'm not asking you to say, you know, yes or no today. I'm just asking you make a fully informed decision. That's it. And the only way you can do that is by doing it on the inside, not the outside. So get on the inside. And if you see if everything is what we say right now, it's true and it's valuable to you, then if it is, then that's when you decided to keep it. If not, no hard feelings. You will then, after, you know, clicking the link and following through, be able to make a fully informed decision if this isn't for you. But you can't make this decision right now for the same reason that you don't

buy a house without firstly looking inside of it. And just, know this, whether it's five minutes from now or five days from now, if you're not happy, we're not happy. Right. And so for any reason whatsoever, if you want your money back, you can get it back because I only want to keep your money if you're happy, right? And he can put his manifestation stuff on top of that. All you have to do is just go to X, Y, Z, or just message me and just say, hey, give my money back where I'm good, I want to leave. And you got it. And in short order, you know, we'll send it right back to you. And we can only make that kind of guarantee because we're confident that what we have is the real deal. And I'm fairly

confident when you sign up, you're going to get exactly what you need to insert benefit. The thing is, is we want to position, like, what makes a guarantee stronger is positioning at like a trial. So I would include that. There's two more things that I think are missing or could potentially enhance this. In my opinion, it's a little too blind bullet. And so if you're listening, you're like, what does that even mean? It's like, I fail to get the meat.

Like, I want to have a belief broken. And as of right now, that doesn't. So, and the belief breaking is say what they believe. Say why it's wrong. say what's right, provide proof. And that's the four-step framework for just kind of breaking two or three beliefs that he can do. He mentions pain at the beginning, but not like the belief that potentially led to that pain. You know my beliefs on manifestation, so I'll just, I'll keep this purely to the marketing.

But I would want to have a little bit more meat there so that I have something that kind of hold on to. And then the last thing is there's a lot of featuring features, but I would love to hear like what the benefit of that feature is for each of those things. So it's like I do three calls a week. It's like so that you won't get stuck. And if you have questions about your specific circumstance, we can actually just tailor it to you in real time. It's like, okay, now I understand why three calls a week. Otherwise, like, who cares?

Right. And so I would describe that in more detail. Like, and the courses that we have, they're purposely designed to be self-study so that you can do it at your own pace. So if you're somebody who's like, I want to go all in. I want to zoom really fast, you can do that. But if you're somebody who's like, you're working nine to five and you just have an hour a day or 30 minutes a day or 30 minutes a week even.

You can do it and you won't feel like you're getting behind. Right. And so that way, we do it that way, people seem to like it. Right. And so it's just like, we just want to translate those things to make it more compelling so that they know why this even matters, right? Okay. So that's the VSL.

Let's pull the page up. And we'll talk about the lead magnet thing too in a second. So there's two videos. Okay. I don't want to watch the second one, but let me just see what it is. Okay, let's do the next click over. I'm guessing is that other video just proof? Yeah.

Okay. Got it. Okay, got it. claim these bonuses if you join before February 31st. Is it a leap year this year? There's definitely no February 31st ever. Okay, that's a typo. Yeah, okay.

101 coaching with a head coach. Ongoing, one-on-one DM support. Welcome to the world. This is a simulation. Honestly, you should be conscious to become the person you truly want using techniques. Okay. Same mindset shift stuff. Okay, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Okay, here's what you get. I don't know anything about this guy, Neville Goddard. So maybe people who are coming know who this guy is, but I have no idea. I will say that we've tested this quite a lot. What has made much more impact than the page has been the marketing itself. And everyone we send to this page

is like knows heavy about Neville Goddard. So like our traffic that comes from school as we rank on the discovery doesn't convert very well at all. But the traffic that we send converts at a high clip. Yeah, understood. So I'll say this. So I make all marketing,

and this is just a rule for, everybody. I make marketing as though no one knows anything. Because if it can convert cold, it'll convert warm. But if you can only convert warm, it won't convert cold. Subset, superset. Does that make sense? And so I always structure it that way. And I think this is actually a big mistake that a lot of a special organic creators make is they treat every video like they're talking to their audience. But the whole point of the video is to reach new audience. So we have to not make it feel like it's an inside joke. We want people who on the outside so they can as quickly as possible understand what's going on so they can make a purchasing decision. Just big picture.

All right. So I'm not going to spend too much more time to like I could I could work on the about page, but I'm guessing, once you show me the other funnel that you guys are sending your traffic to because the links though are sending a school though. Right there. Yeah. Right now we're testing. Yeah. Okay. Well, then once you show me the other funnel and what metrics do you have right now behind the scenes for the conversion? So that's the dashboard. Okay. 2.3 vision conversion. Sure. Okay. Nothing really pops out. Obviously the, I think our average right now is full. percent so it's a little bit lower but i think it's because what we're talking about it's just you're not you're not getting the benefit of all the school traffic because it's not meant to and like that's one of the

biggest benefits of being on schools that we send you traffic to so i would i would consider like i would show it to people who don't know anything about neville goddard how can i explain who this guy is in three sentences for everybody else because basically like the edification that occurs there is very like this guy's a big deal this guy's my grandfather and then you're going to learn lessons that he learned from somebody. It's like it's very like two, three steps removed. And so we need to make sure it's rock solid. Make sure that we prioritize cold.

Okay. So right now is all the conversion being done on the page or is there calls or what? No, right now it's on the page. And then the funnel that I think Jacob can pull up and show you is lead magnet to then either a webinar, which we ran two weeks ago and that was super successful. And then email nurturing from there. or before we were giving a kind of PDF lead magnet. Do you push for annual on the webinar?

No. Yeah, I would push for annual if you're guys going to do webinars. I do think that doing the webinar is a good idea. And so I would repeat that. So if you ran a web, like if you guys do a webinar once a month or every other week, I think that would be a good idea. Okay. And can I ask on that?

Because that's a big question that we had. So we did run the webinar. It went really well. We got a ton of new leads. we got a ton of sales. But the question is, how do we repeat that? Like, are people going to show up? Because then they might think, oh, you know, it's a sales pitch at the end.

Like on organic, how do you structure a webinar? So basically, so you can't do the same webinar. So what you would do is it probably be like 80, 20 in terms of the structure. So the first 80 is going to be more or less, that's going to be the content. And then you're just going to have your CTA at the end. I talk about this with people who have free communities. run your weekly webinar where you teach something that's valuable, whatever, and then you make your soft toss to the paid side.

If you're running like a true perfect webinar, something like that, I think that would get, you can't really repeat that unless you're going to new traffic. Now, I will say this, his YouTube channel is bringing in new traffic all the time. And so you could conceivably just run only to people who are opted in in the last 14 days and have a much smaller webinar. And in that case, you could repeat the same webinar over and over again. If I were a smart cookie, what I would do is I would probably do a webinar for all new only every seven days. And then twice a month, I would do one to the whole list.

And the new one to the whole list would be more like content driven, soft CTA. The other one is just the ramrod. It's the thing that you know converts. And how do you frame that on the YouTube itself? Because surely everyone is seeing that sort of pitch to the webinar. Hey, if you're brand new here, I've got an onboarding webinar that I can take you through that'll give you all the fundamentals and get you up to speed. So if you don't know who Neville Goddard is, you don't know who this is, you don't know who this is, you don't know who this is.

I can get you up to speed in the fastest human way possible and I'll be live with you. And if you have been around and you've been like, ah, you've been on the fence, you've been like, you know, you've been lurking. Think get over there, you know, get over to the community. And you know, we'd love to see you. And here's a free gift, which is a lead magnet. So that's the funnel we were running. Okay. So, what was the convert?

Like how many people showed up? What was a conversion? So there was 2,000 people signing up, and that was a 70% conversion rate from people who landed on the page. A thousand unique viewers on the webinar, and then 500 made it to the pitch, and we converted 100 out of them. So 100 out of 1,000 who started?

Yeah. You got 10%? Live on the webinar, and then I will say we sold 40 after in the follow-up sequence, so 140. That sounds a little lower than you'd want, given the price point. So I would have expected the fact that it's warm audience and $60 as a price point. I think I would have been targeting something closer to 20% for something like that, maybe 25 to follow up.

I do think that you guys should just basically go for the annual. And your churn is 18. So call it five times monthly. So it's 59, right? Yeah. So $60 bucks times five, so $300. I think they'd make the annual $300 or more. So $300 or $400, $399, whatever. And then add in some spicy bonuses that only annuals get, which you'll be able to explain on the webinar. He'll certainly like it more if he gets paid a bunch up front. Because if you had if he had a hundred and they all paid $400, make $40,000, I feel like he'd be like, that was fun. We should do that again. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Right. So I think that. And obviously churn on annuals is going to be significantly lower. Yeah, usually we would have wanted to push to annual, but there's a few reasons why we're not actually pushing annual at the moment. He kind of didn't want to at the time when annual came out to do annual.

I don't know if it was a commitment thing or if he was worried about the long-term prospect. It was earlier when we started working together. Yeah. And then the idea kind of stepped through the cracks, but we're working on that now. I think you should for sure do it. I mean, assuming he's committed to doing this, like I think, it would make a ton of sense. Yeah, and just add in, add in one or two key bonuses that only people who are a year-long people get. And I would just say, like, and this is the benefit of committing,

right? Like the biggest issue that you've had, like if I were trying to sell this, I would say some to the degree of you've probably been wishy-washy for a lot of stuff in your life. You haven't been able to commit. You've been on the fence. Right. Like, I think maybe the reason that you're on this call today is because you haven't been able to pull the trigger. And so maybe the first step towards living the life that you want to live is taking action, right? It's actually making commitment and saying, I'm actually going to change my year. I don't need to wait until January to change my life and just waste the rest of this year. Is that what you're going to do? You're going to waste the next 10 months because it's not January 1st, right? Next nine months, next eight months? Of course not.

You can start now. You can change your life in a second, right? And I would demonstrate it by saying, like, listen, who here believes that you can change your life in an instant? Some of you guys don't believe me. I'll prove it to you. Right now, go drink a bottle of Johnny Walker, right? Get in your car and drive. You absolutely can change your life in an instant. And so the thing is, is you believe the negative, but you don't believe the positive. This is if I wanted to pretend to be woo-woo, right? Which I'm not. But if I wanted to pretend to be, this is how I'd sell it. Right. The positive is believable. It's just that you plant the seeds now and then the tree grows later. You can cut a tree down much fast seed you can grow up. And the best day to plant a tree was 20 years ago,

second best day is right now. So that's probably how I'd position getting people to commit and getting people to take action. Okay. So annual plus bonus, you're doing that. That'll help cash flow. I'm guessing you guys aren't thinking of doing ads yet, correct? No, we want to kind of master this. No, that's good. Master this. I think it's a good idea.

Okay. So let's scroll back to conversion. So from a conversion perspective, the webinar is the primary conversion vehicle you have, and then you obviously have the page there. The two and change percent, I think the changes to the Wembron, the VSL would be the things. I think the way you position the guarantee the way I outlined, those things would be helpful, putting more meat in it, making.

it positioned like a trial, explaining more about the success rate, adding benefits to each of the features so that people understand what this is even about because it's very vague. Like a lot of the words are right, but there's, it's like, it has the framework of a VSL, but it doesn't have the thing about like a Christmas tree where you hang ornaments. It has the, it has the structure. It just doesn't have the ornaments on it. All right. So we talked about the urgency thing.

We talked about traffic. So you want to talk about conversion? I'm sorry, Ascension. Yeah, Ascension and, sure. would be great the other two topics. All right. So then what, so what ascension, were we talking about ascension wise?

So I'll, I'll show you what we've done so far. Up to this point. So we have this community, which is the main community. Yeah. And then essentially, and this is the 60 bucks.

And what we did was to do a one time, like a 30 day sort of challenge, like an accelerator, if you will, but people get more attention, kind of more intimate community with more intimate lives, more support, et cetera. And this was a 300 one-time payment.

So we kind of used the one-time payment feature. And this did 23K, I think, which it was nice. But we don't know whether to go for a full, like, rolling community and do that at a higher price point. Dude, I've already got this. I've already got it. Make this the benefit that people get for doing annual subscription. So when you sign up for the annual, the first thing we're going to do is running you through a 30-day self-challenge. And this is an entirely customer program.

Let me show you the proof. People bought this for $300. They bought it. It's done. Look, get all this proof. I'm going to give it to you for free just when you become a member because I want you to succeed long term.

Savage, right? Yeah, that's super good. So that's a cool bonus. But what I'm thinking is for just essentially in general, because we have like one point one, close to 1.2K members. And like, I feel like there's more LTV we could get out of these people. I don't really know what that looks like.

We've tried one to one, but that's too much like time versus money for him. and he can't charge enough to make it worth his actual hourly rate, we kind of want to find the most efficient way of doing this. Because doing these launches every couple months for a new 30-day accelerator is cool. But it's just a lot of- Dude, you want to have that rotating promotional thing, the new 30-day accelerator, that's the new wrapper you put for every annual promotion. And just go bol-sy-l-you-get that for free.

Yeah. So listen, guys, you got two options. You can just pay for the 30 days for $300, or you can pay $300 for the year and get it for free and get everything. else. It's up to you. Of course, everyone's going to take the annual. Yeah, so they get a free invite, basically, to this community then. And then in terms of converting more monthly, we should just try to up them to annual then. I mean, you should try to up to everybody to annual. I mean, annual has lower term, period. You'll get more committed people, et cetera,

et cetera. You'll get cash flow in advance, which is helpful. But beyond that, the conversion, so there's, okay, I want to make sure that I'm tracking. So the ascension you're talking about is just from these 30-day things that are one-time into the membership, correct? No, other way. So we have people in the membership, and then we launched this 30-day challenge, essentially, and we basically promoted it to the current customers paying monthly, this new thing, and then 80 of them bought. Yeah, I think the play that I just outlined is the one that will convert on a regular basis.

And then all you have to do now, this is the point that I was talking about with the naming thing, right, is that just wrap wrap it into a season. The structure of the challenge is going to be the same. Just wrap it into a different season. And you seem skeptical, so I'm going to break the belief for everybody else who's on here. So in a gym, I marketed the same fish. I have the same pond, very tiny pond. What is my actual delivery going to be?

You're going to stop eating shit and you're going to move. This is like, this will not change. Right? Like, I have classes and I have meal plans. That's what I have. And so how do I make this sound new and interesting? And so for 30 days, basically what we're going to talk about. for the challenge or for the 28-day transformation,

it's the same thing for weight loss, the same exaction. All right. What we're doing is we're just putting a word in front of it. So it could be fall, it could be spring, it could be season, it could be the reason why, whatever it is. You know, if COVID had been going on, it'd be like get out of that, you know, get out of the house get into your head or whatever.

Like you just put a little ism in front of it. And then all you have to do is basically swap the first video or first onboarding thing. That makes it contextual to whatever the, you know, the promo was. and then everything else after that's still going to be like, you're going to have a meal plan and you're going to work out. Yeah, I guess I'm not skeptical.

I guess I'm trying to track. I do that for everybody else too, just so you know. I was just doing it for everybody else too. I got you. I'm just trying to track the direct, like, because obviously we got people coming. I'm just trying to think about it logistically, like how we're going to make this work.

Let's walk through it. So people watch YouTube, they do the lead magnet or they go straight to the about they buy the monthly or they buy the annual and get this as a bonus. The thing I'm trying to think of is, okay, let's say we have the monthly members and we tell them, look, we're launching this accelerator for the month of May. You can either pay 300 bucks to get in or you can upgrade to annual.

So I'm tracking with that. I guess where I'm not tracking is, let's say you had a member who, let's say, bought the accelerator in February, but also wants to do it in May. Are you not going to lose out on the revenue for the people who wanted to do both? If they want to do it in May, then one of the benefits is if I run a future challenge, you also get to participate in that for free. And so we could just charge more for annual. challenges as perpetual conversion. You're like, how do I ascend? This is your conversion mechanism.

And you run an A, B, offer, 300 one time, 300 annual, and you get everything else unlimited. It's a decoy offer. So the ascension is annual, basically. Just trying to ascend every other time. Okay, I'm with you. All right. Sweet. Okay.

So that's the ascension piece. You feel okay there? Okay. So that ascension thing also tackles churn to a large degree. Because if you got half of your group to, you know, to ascend, then your churn will cut in half virtually. Are you guys doing onboarding of any kind right now? Yes. So actually the biggest mover to our churn was doing one-to-one onboarding calls. Okay. So we've hired someone to do 15-minute one-to-one onboarding.

Great. Well, I think what would make sense there, too, is like, with the 15-minute onboarding, you can give them a script to sell the $300 annual. Then they'll have a reason to do it and they'll get a commission. So that way you have multiple conversion mechanisms. So you have one on the onboarding call, you also have that, you know, one that you're sporadically doing to the whole community. And you can say if you buy right now, you can get it for 300. If you buy it any other time, it's 400. So that's our little incentive to get you going. I actually got the idea to do the one-to-one onboarding piece from you. It was probably one of these calls that I heard you talk about.

Yeah, it works. I'm just trying to think. So because basically our churn used to be like when we first came in and took over the community, we didn't launch it, but we kind of took it over. And churn was at like near 30%. We did a few things. We pulled a few levers to get it down. We started actually moderating the community a lot more,

so it's much more high quality, much more like, you know, super good stuff in the actual community itself. We kind of frame the marketing a bit differently to bring in better quality people. So a little bit less woo in your words and a bit more pragmatic, so a bit more sort of action-taking.

That's obviously help. And then the one-to-one onboarding calls. Those have been the biggest levers. I'm just trying to think of anything else other than annual, because obviously we will do that. any other levers that we can pull within the business to help the challenge. I would try to get very clear on the problem that people are trying to solve.

So one of the things, like, the reason I had like, it said success rate 93%. To me, I'm like, I don't know what that means. Like success or what? And so I think one of the really nice things that I like that Jack does, I don't know if you guys watch that. But like, you had people say like, what's the one automation you want help with? right and i think asking people like what's the one obstacle that you're dealing with what's the belief that you want to have broken right and i think that if you could use that then we can take this very amorphous deliverable and make it more tangible and if you want to get if you want to cross

over to the side of promosie in the in the world of pragmatism you could even say what are you doing that you want to stop doing or what do you want to start doing that you're not doing that's it just very simple. What behavior do you want to change? It's either going to stop or it's going to start. You stop a bad thing. You start a good thing. And I think people got really concrete, then what would happen is that you would frame the value of the community based on the value of changing that behavior permanently. That is a significantly more valuable thing than like the secrets of the past. Like if you tell someone I can help you quit smoking, the value of the community is to be relative to quitting smoking to that person, which might be significantly more

valuable. The more levels of translation someone has to do between the messaging and their problem, the lower your conversion is going to be because you're basically asking them to chew the food and digest it for them. When really you need to chew it, they're a little baby birds and you got to feed it right into their mouth pre-chute. You need to do the thinking for them. So I think it's actually like you will be able to probably change less about your actual deliverable and change two core things. One is that you're very clear about the problem that they're trying to solve. And number two, the path that they need to follow to solve it. So on that onboarding call,

I would say you're trying to quit smoking. That's amazing. So obviously we can't promise anything because we can't do it. You can. But what I can do is I can walk you through a path that'll help you kind of like, look, there's a ton of stuff in here

and I don't want you to feel overwhelmed. No more reason people cancel. Right. It's just do this. Just do this and then post when you're done. So I want to mention something about this. So the problem with our offer is that it's very general. And we've struggled to find that one thing

because everyone's one thing is so super different to them. Some people use the teachings that we teach for cars. Some of them use it for health. Some of them for relationships. And we haven't been able to make a concrete offer based on one thing. And that's what we're really struggling with. Yeah, you need a metafram. That's what I'm saying.

There's no meat. Like, it's a lot of ancient secrets, but like there's no meat. There's no framework that this is based on. And so the way that I would think through this, this is why I'm a big behavior change guy, right? Which is that fundamentally, there are things that you were doing that you don't like that you do. There are things that you want to start doing that you're not doing. And whether your goal is that you're trying to lose weight, whether you're trying to get the girl,

whether you're trying to start a business. Fundamentally, it's always going to boil down to what you're doing. Right. Now, if I wanted to go woo-woo, which I wouldn't, but if I did, then I would be like, and all that starts between your ears. Like you literally cannot move your body without it starting in your brain. And so that's where we start. all right now that being said this can be really amorphous and so i want to make this very concrete

when you when you when you apply or when you submit your your information i want you to put down the thing that you want to start or stop so there's going to be two sides and i'd like you to do both and the reason for that is that you cannot start doing something without making room for it and that's one of the number one reasons that people fail is that they try to add something to an already full plate it doesn't work so we have to take something out in order to put in the types of behaviors that you want and so we have to have both it's almost like this is compelling that's because because I don't do manifestation shit. I'm saying this with love.

Don't worry. We know. But that's actually the piece. That's actually the piece. Jacob, that's actually it. Like, the accelerator with doing it around sort of self-concept, like behaviors that they don't want to do, what they do want to do, shift the identity.

Like, that's actually it. And we can just apply it. Like, that can be the focus. That can be the meat. and then it can apply it to whatever it is. I would give you the meat of how to do personal development. That will get to the secrets of Hermosie. Of all people.

I think it would be you, Alex. But fundamentally, we want to hit on that as the core thing. And then what you want to do is explain how it applies to different scenarios. And then again, we chunk up to once, and the reason this is so valuable is that once you know how to change your behavior, what are you going to, like, this is why I like future pacing a little bit. So, what do you want to, once you lose the weight, what are you going to do? You're going to want to get the job, right? Once you get the job, you lose the weight, what do you want to do?

You want to get the girl, right? Like there's always going to be other behaviors. There's always going to be new mountains that you have to climb, but you have to learn how to climb to begin with first. And so there's a Haitian proverb, this is before they were eating cats and dogs, that behind mountains are more mountains. And so it's just a great, it's just a great visual for the idea of like, you can only see the mountain in front of you.

But once you get to the top of that mountain, you will be able to see more mountains because you have the perspective to see them. Right. And so we have to master climbing. And so I would probably, if I was making this, VSL, I would probably do it as some sort of analogy like climbing a mountain, like something that that could translate that's much more tangible that people can kind of hold on to. And so the idea is once I teach you how to climb, then you can climb whatever mountains you

want. But we'll start with the mound that you need to start climbing first because we've got to solve that. So let's solve that. Let's get you out of pain. Let's get you, you know, stop being confused, stop being overwhelmed and just boil this down to the things that you need to change in your life. The things you got to stop. Period. And that's what we're going to focus on. And when you start, if you join annual, the first 30 days that we're going to do is just me to kick this one thing. obviously you can do it on your own and I'll make a whole plan for you or my recommendation this is what the people who have the most success do is just start with the Kickstarter you've struggled

to commit in the past make this be the first you draw on the line in the sand saying today's the day I'm going to change you've had many opportunities the past you haven't done it yeah I honestly I think that's it's it's the that's the piece it's too big I'll be real with you I I don't know how about you know Mr. Elmer I don't I don't mean this as an insult like the reason the reason I don't like the woo-woo world is because it's so fluffy and I just want reality. And so I think that if he focuses on clarifying his language so that people can understand it, because I think there's a little bit of mysticism that, not a little bit, a lot of mysticism that gets appealed to.

And mysticism is misunderstood. People don't get it. And so I think that actually you'll lose conversion because people don't know what we're talking about. Now, I'll bet you if he has the following that he does, he does have elements in there that people are able to hold on to. It's just not being translated in the market material that I saw. So that makes sense. So this isn't me dissing him. I'm just saying like it's, it's me watching that. It had the structure of a VSL. It just didn't have the meat. Because all that I heard was basically,

like the fundamental argument, like if we boil everything down, guys, I'd recommend you doing this, everybody's listening. You have to boil down the core argument. Like what is the argument that I'm making? The core argument that I heard is my grandfather knew some secrets. He passed those secrets onto me. I have two expensive cars and therefore I know these secrets I also went to prison and am no longer in prison. That to me and the only reason because of that is these secrets.

That was the argument. To me, okay. It would be like, I would want more to the argument. I think we got what we need. Okay. I'll do a little recap because I think other people were probably taking notes. So I'll recap my stuff.

So on YouTube, first comment slash pin, make sure that the CTA is integrated first third. Do that via demonstration. I would do that with share screens when you're pulling up the specific stories. Talk about the tactics this person employed and the support they were able to get. Success rate in the VSL needs to be defined. What is success actually means so that someone actually can internalize it? Translate all the features into benefits of what that actually means. Add the meat of some sort of framework that is getting applied rather than just generic secrets. The guarantee should be positioned as a trial and I think could convert a lot better. The copy on the about page should be basically translated into something

that works for cold because if it works for cold, it'll work for warm. The webinar cadence, I think implementing that, so you do one live webinar only for new people every week. That'll maximize conversion. The primary offer being annual and the benefit, the bonus of being annual is the 30-day kickstart that you guys run at the beginning, which you have proof that you have charged $300. And from a rotational perspective of doing the other two times a month where you hit the whole list up, on those ones, you just basically hit on the season of basically whatever the seasonal flavor is. And that'll keep it relatively fresh. But you're still 80, 20, 80% value, 20% ask on the internal launches. The external ones, you can do kind of a more structured pitch for the onboarding calls that you guys are doing. I would give a little commission and I would make that 300 and I make annual 400. So any other time besides today, you said you want an urgency on the onboarding call. I'll give you $50 off or I'll give you $100 off if you choose to do it now. And with that, I'll be able to toss you in. You know what?

The next cohort starts in seven days. Let's get you going. Just to clarify, you said on the onboarding, you said make it 400, but then drop it under 300. You mean like make the typical annual price 400 and then if they join the onboarding, do it. Well, right now your LTV right now is a little above 300. So we don't want to trade. We don't want to trade. We don't want to lose money on the annual.

So the right price should be probably. do the math, but whatever, what is it? It's like 400 would need to, would be above. Yeah. So 59 divided, it was 5999, right? Divided by 0.18. So 333 is your actual LTV. So anything below that, you lose money. So I would say, let's go 399 as the offer. And then when they're on the call, you're going to send people at 350 or 349, something like that. All right. Alex, thank you so much for having us on, man. That was super, super helpful. you bet happy to help and hopefully if you were in the chat um if that was helpful for you all for some uh fire emojis so that i can feed the the the hole that is my soul that that seeks

outside approval so that i can feel better about myself dude i manifested these fire chats you did goby thank you so much man for inviting you bet i'm so i'm just so everybody who's in the woo world i um i met i met with a founder this weekend who wanted us to invest in the business and I spent three hours with him and he started the conversation by saying like it's really all about mindset and he just he didn't know what he was getting into and three hours later he walked out like he was drunk

he was like I don't know what just happened he's like I think he just destroyed everything beautiful in the world and I was like or you're just incredibly free now if anyone can define mindset I'm thrilled to hear what you think it is because people use the word left and right and no one knows what it means I'm curious Alex just one quick question

Do you feel like there's no like benefits to psychological sort of mindset, meditation, stuff like that? I don't even know what mindset is. As in like shifting limiting beliefs. You don't think there's anything practical that people can use you

aren't as pragmatic as maybe some other people in terms of like just forcing action. I'll walk you through the logical proof that I walk to this founder through. Change in mindset, no change in behavior equals nothing. Right? Change in mindset, change in behavior

equals something. No change in mindset. Change in behavior equals something. Which variable doesn't matter? The mindset, but can I offer an objection? Sure. Just one objection. Do you think, though, that obviously the change in behavior is the pillar, but some people struggle to make the change in behavior without the change in mindset? If you can define change in mindset, I'm all ears. But as soon as you try to define it, what you're going to do is you're going to describe a behavior, in which case, change in behavior. True, because some behaviors are mental. I guess you can say that.

No, not even. No, not even. Let me say differently. How would I know what change in mindset had occurred? Well, I guess you don't because it's not tangible. Which is why I don't appeal to mysticism or magic. Yeah, that's fair enough. In the observable universe, what will I have changed?

Now, if you're like, I believe in psychic powers, that's amazing, and I wish you the best. But when people are like, I manifested my husband, you might have decided that you wanted to have a spouse and then as a result of that, you then started working out and you started like going out more. And I would argue that you working out and going out more is we got the husband, not you standing in your shower doing this. Because if we take the equal opposite, just do the thinking, don't do the doing and see what happens. You guys didn't. I know, I know, I know everybody who's in here was not, was, you know, you didn't come for a for, for a for a for a homozy personal development talk. But I say this as somebody who like this is like, I want to, I want to put this in context.

when I was younger, I believed so heavily in this stuff that I believed I could move things with my mind. If I just, if I just ascended to a high enough fucking frequency, I thought I could do it. And so it's not that it's not that I like have always cast the side. It was that when I saw that nothing in my life changed, despite me thinking really fucking hard about stuff, that I was like, I must be missing something here. And so I read self-help after self-help after self-health book. And then this is when I had my job before I quit. And I was like, my life, I remember, there's the 10th book that I read. I was like, my life is the same.

And so then I changed my perspective. Now, you might say that's what happened. It was the change in perspective. Well, I had already changed my perspective a bunch and nothing fucking happened before that. What really happened was I said, okay, from here on out, I will not read another book until I do the things that are in the book from an action perspective. And then when I started doing the things and not reading new books is when my life changed. which is when I became an absolute advocate for doing shit rather than thinking about doing

shit. And I see Jamie in there like, what's really tough about this where you see things like law of attraction is that unfortunately many people who are in positions of power say words that other people nod their heads to and sound good, but mean nothing. So like law of attraction it's been repeated so many times that people think it's a law. It's a movie made by direct response marketers. And obviously a really good one from a compelling and persuasion perspective because the meat in that story is this law. And boy, does it sound better to just attract stuff than go out and get it. So it's, in my opinion, it's selling a victim frame. It's selling that things happen to you rather than you happening to them. And I would prefer to live my life as

source. Like, I am the world's consequence, not the other way around. And there's a great little analogy that I heard a rabbi say recently. You said there are people who are thermometers and there are thermostats. Some people just have the temperature. They react to the temperature. Other people change the temperature of the room. I would prefer to be cause. And for me, at least, it has served me well, which is why I'm an advocate for it. Now, if you like the manifestation stuff, by all means, if you're listening to this, then do it. Like, I promise you it makes no difference in my life. I wish you the best. I want you to win. I really genuinely mean that. I want you to win. And if that's what makes you feel good, then do it. But if you have tried that stuff and it hasn't worked for you,

then consider just changing your behavior anyways. And there was a very long period of my life where I didn't feel like I deserve success. Now, a lot of people would say you have to change your mindset about that. But what actually changed my mind was realizing that I could do stuff that successful people did, not deserve it and get it anyways. And so I always identified, like this real. I identified as the villain. I identified as the oppressor when I was in, when I watched stories, when I watched movies, I did like when something bad happens, I'm like, well, what did they do? You know? I'm like, they did something that. I've always thought that and because of that, it actually was something that I was like, man, I don't know if I'm a good

person. I don't know. I don't know if I deserve success. These guilts, these shames, things that I would carry with me. But the thing is, is that all that stuff kept me very handy. And so when I realized that I could just do the stuff and not deserve success and get it anyways, all of a sudden I just started doing things. And then things started happening. And so the whole deservingness got thrown out the window because I was like, who gives a shit? I don't have to deserve it. I don't have to vibrate at a certain frequency. And I'll prove it. I can vibrate it as super low frequency. And if I make 100 calls and you don't, I'll fucking sell more shit than you. All right. And with that, go manifest your destinies. I'll see you later. Bye. Thank you guys.