The Game with Alex Hormozi - Ethics on High-Ticket Offers, Marketing Promises, & More... (with Ryan Daniel Moran) Pt.1 - July '21 | Ep 456

Episode Date: November 5, 2022

People want to buy, expensive things. People will become more convicted. The more they invested, they become. Today, join Alex (@AlexHormozi) as he guests on Ryan Daniel Moran’s YouTube to talk about marketing promises, the ethics behind delivering high ticket offers, and more. This is part 1 of the interview.Welcome to The Game w/Alex Hormozi, hosted by entrepreneur, founder, investor, author, public speaker, and content creator Alex Hormozi. On this podcast you’ll hear how to get more customers, make more profit per customer, how to keep them longer, and the many failures and lessons Alex has learned on his path from $100M to $1B in net worth.Check out the episode on Ryan Daniel Moran’s YouTube Channel! Timestamps:(1:41) - Alex's emphasis on quality products and his process for ensuring it.(6:34) - Contrasting the "Magician" (who emphasizes effort) with the "Mule" (who works all day) and addressing customer expectations.(8:55) - Alex's perspective on earning the CEOs of publicly traded companies and understanding the average income of your target client.(18:03) - Exploring the ethics behind charging high prices and the importance of conviction and certainty in selling.(26:24) - Alex's mindset and methodology when it comes to physical products.(37:07) - The three fundamental tests and the value equation in business.Follow Alex Hormozi’s Socials:LinkedIn | Instagram | Facebook | YouTube | Twitter | Acquisition

What's up, Oursion, fun podcast with Ryan Danny Moran of Capitalism.com. We broke down marketing promises and delivering on high ticket offers. I think it was a fun one that you guys will dig. He also has an e-commerce slant for those of you guys who sell physical products. We went into more specific around that stuff what I think you guys will enjoy. And for everybody else, also enjoy. The more someone pays, the more invested they are, the more invested they are, the better the results they get, the better results they get, the more convicted your sales team

is the more people they sell at higher prices, the more profit you have to reinvest in the fulfillment to get more clients' results and around it around you go. Welcome to the game where we talk about how to get more customers, how to make more per customer, and how to keep them longer, and the many failures and lessons we have learned along the way. I hope you enjoy and subscribe. Good evening. Friends and neighbors and Hormozies. Tonight's special, we brought out the good stuff tonight. Alex and I go deep when Ryan has whiskey. We want to tell you about the last time we had whiskey together. It got a little bit out of hand. Alex, I'm so pumped for tonight. I had this

weird energy about me. Like, no one wants to be around me. Children are afraid of me. I'm so pumped to talk to you. Dude, you're blowing up. For anybody who doesn't know Alex, the thing that is amazing to me about him is he and God have a contract where God is like, look, Alex, whatever you want, just don't hurt me. That's what happens is Alex is just like, listen, I want to be the world's most jacked billionaire. And if you could throw a million YouTube subscribers my way, it wouldn't hurt you. And God is like, all right, fine. And then Alex just like, it just had, it just happens and he's like volume. So dude, you have the number one book in its category and you haven't even announced

it yet. You're getting like 3,000 subs a day on YouTube. You have 1.5% body fat. What's it like? 12 inch personality. It's great being friends with you. You always make me. feel great about myself. Well, give it a minute. For any of you who saw my email recently,

or as I said, I have friends who make me feel like the fat kid, I was talking about Alex. Because I went to school to be a pastor and God does not listen to me like he listens to Alex. So we're just going to go ahead and jump in, guys. I have a total blatant pitch and ask tonight. And it's going to cost you, ladies and gentlemen. Let me tell you. Alex. We all know the secret reason that you really put out a ton of content on the internet. And it's because you need to get rich selling 99-cent books, right? And I know you get like 35% of that from Kindle. So you're like, I know that's the real selfish reason why you're doing all of this.

So look, the man's got to eat. He's got to feed these biceps. And we have a book. It costs a whole 99 cents. And you're going to have to go all the way to Amazon to get it. But this is what I'm going to ask all of you to do by the end of tonight. In fact, you should start doing it now. You should go to Amazon.com, search for Alex Hormosey, hit the buy button, and review the book once you've read it. Like, review the book. We all know how this works. Most of you are Amazon sellers.

You're going to leave a review, a good one for Alex's book, because I can guarantee. you that it's going to be the best book that you read all year. Best book I've read in a decade. So unless you're 10 times better than me, it's going to be the best book you read all here. So, Alex, I've told you this privately, but the thing that I admire about you and the thing that is so impressive about the fact that you have, well, your total revenue is like $100 million on your main businesses. You have businesses that give you 10% of top line just to be an advisor. And this book is going to go nuts.

They all have the thing in common of your emphasis is on really quality product. And that's not how most internet entrepreneurs approach things. Could you comment on your approach going on, like into any new business? So I thought it would be appropriate for a book that was about the product to be a good product in and of itself. I thought I'd have to spend an inordinate amount of time on the book to make sure that it was really good so that I could be, so I could hold up to the standard that I was trying to tell people that it matters. Yeah. So if I'm looking at a business, the first thing that we usually do is look at like, what is the value that you were providing?

Right. Like what is the amount of value that's being provided at the end user? and is there a way that we can repackage that value to enhance it? And the repackaging can happen in a variety of ways. And I go through that in the book in terms of like, can we do more, can we make things happen faster? Can we make things happen easier? Can we do it with less sacrifice?

Can we, you know, those types of things that we can recombine it. And that's in a real way. But then on top of each of those things, we think, like, can we do that in just a perceptual shift? Like, is there a way that we can change the way they're perceiving the value that they are getting from the product? And a lot of times those are almost more valuable in a real way than even changing things about the product itself. Would you comment a little bit? What do you mean that the perception can be more valuable?

So I'll give you, I'll give everybody here like a simple example. So there are things besides the actual thing you're delivering that create value around it. And so if I were to say, hey, we have two surgeons and you want to get plastic surgery for whatever reason. And for one surgeon, it's their first surgery they've ever done. And another surgeon, it's their 10,000 surgery, which of these would you value more? Now, mind you, it might take the first guy twice as long to do the surgery compared to the second guy. So you're going to get half the time of the 10,000 rep guy compared to the first time rep guy, but you still, even though this guy is going to take half as much time with you, you'd still probably be willing to pay the 10,000 guy more. And that is because perceived likelihood

of achievement is one of the things that creates value in a product. And so if we can bake these different lenses or layers into the value that we're providing, then we can, without actually changing our product itself, make it more valuable. Yeah, I have an old mentor. He used to describe this as the magician versus the mule. The mule is paid to go out and work all the time, gets kicked when it stops. And the magician goes, field is plowed. And we overemphasize the effort or the time going into it sometimes when we're the provider, but in the user's eyes, they just want the field plowed. And one of the things that reading your book reframed for me was, like, I get intellectually the idea of developing a product that is customer-centric, but in reality, my actions have always

mapped that of a marketer. It's been, okay, how do I make this dance on the page rather than how do I create the absolute best fulfillment possible. And when that's the foundation of what you are asking, then marketing in sales is still important, but it's really easy to do. One of the things that I really love about the way you advertise is your headlines, you don't have to make them sexy because they're already sexy because they're what the person wants. So yeah, big believers in marketing and the actual, you know, the product itself rather than the promise and letting that kind of take care of it. So like we're big on, like for everyone who's listening right now, like we're really big on tracking the data of client success, you know, on averages. Like you

probably don't see a lot of like internet marketers, for example, saying our average client makes X in Y period of time. Like no one says that because most people's average client is zero, right? Well, rather than in, I'd say the median client would be zero, right? And so for us, it's actually a KPI that we track within the business. And that's one of the, the KPIs that we drive towards. It's just like, how can we get the average revenue collected, you know, per client up within the first 15 days, the first 30 days, first 60 days. And so we track all those things because we know that the more money we make our customers,

the more everything else happens. And one of the, you know, some of the truths, like there are certain truths that things that you discover, or at least that I feel like I've discovered as we've been on this journey, it's like the more money that we make, period. And I think that just putting that hat on has been, I mean, that's what this book is. I know that giving away the book for 99 cents and a course that accompanies it, like, I'm sure I could sell it and I could sell a coaching program and I could do all that, but like I don't want to do that.

And I enjoyed making it. And so that was kind of the point of doing it. One of the things that you say in just the description of the book is that you are out earning, you know, the CEOs of publicly traded companies without having upsell flows that were dialed in, without, my goodness, without sending emails to your list. this, you know, without doing a bunch of complicated marketing, would you, would you comment a little bit about that? Because like, you're, you're, in our world, and like, the entrepreneur world, you're most famous in, like, the funnel hacking, one-click upsell, like that, that world,

but you use that as a tool. It's not your business. You, you haven't had a lot of that dialed in, and you've still made tens of millions of dollars. So would you, would you comment on that? yeah we're embarrassingly bad at most things i just i think i think most people at least when i when i talk to a lot of entrepreneurs i think one of the biggest skills that's important is learning how to discern priority like what is important like there's so much information right so it's like all the stuff's coming out of us like what is most important and we have such limit like we have such limited resources like as entrepreneurs such limited resources capital and the biggest one just being attention right we have such limited attention for ourselves but just as important

or more importantly our teams. And so it's like, I might only be able to move one or two rocks forward this year. You know what I mean? Like really, like big important things. And you kind of have to commit to whatever that rock is. And if you can't pick the rock, then you move zero rocks forward, right? And so people are like, move nine things forward. It's like, yeah, but you didn't actually get any of them done correctly.

So it's like you have to really, and I think developing the software companies taught me a lot about this. But it's like you only have, and we have to commit that this is the one thing that we're going to do and we're actually going to do it well. And I think picking that is one of the hardest things. But if you pick well, then a lot of other things kind of take care of themselves. And so, like, coming from the marketer world, the reason a lot of people cap out is because they have zero word of mouth. If anything, they have negative word of mouth.

Like, literally word of mouth works against them. Like, I mean, we even talk about, like, in the marketing world, just like fighting refunds. You know, you're just, you're like, you do all the market, like, all the sales on the front end. And you're like hoping people don't refund. And you're saying, or if you're just really good to your customers, you get a ton of word of mouth and no one refunds anyway. Yeah, I mean, we do a lot of stuff that's kind of unheard of. We run free trials. Like, anybody can sign up our program for free.

Like, you don't have to sign it. Like, you don't have to pay today. And yet, we still get 45% of our clients prepay the entire thing within the first 30 days. They choose. They don't have to. And so it's like, you have somebody who can try something. They can choose not to buy it. And not only that, they choose to prepay the entire thing, you know, within the first month,

when they had the option not to. And I think that it just speaks to like, how can we, how can we onboard customers the right way? How can we activate them? You know, what are the leading indicators we know that are going to create a successful customer and how can we reverse engineer that? And how do we know that what that looks at day 30 and what is it looks like day 60 and what is it looks like day 90?

And then when we focus on those things, we can drive up our lifetime gross profit per customer so far beyond what anyone else in our space can do. It makes the marketing as ugly as mine is still wildly profitable. And so, I mean, one of the claims in the book that you heard is that, you know, we have a 36 to one lifetime return on advertising. And right now it's actually a little higher than that. And so for every dollar we spend, we get, you know, almost $40 back. And that's been over my entire career. So that's not like this one campaign that we talk about because I like sent a DM to someone and, you know, like a $1,000 and I made a $4,000 sale. That's every dollar that we spent. And so I think it's because we focused on the back end and and really seeing how can we deliver this thing faster? How can we make it more? convenient for them. How can we deliver it in the channel or medium that they want to consume it in? How can we do this so that we can decrease the effort and sacrifice on their behalf? So the stress that they have to go through. What are the hoops that they normally would

have to jump through? How many of those hoops can we jump through ourselves? How can we increase their perception of likelihood of achievement? Because if we can get somebody who's more convicted that what we're going to do is going to work, then they're actually in a very real way going to receive more value. That's right. That's right. And I want to point out something. Alex, What does before one of your target clients meets you, what is their average income? $2,943 a month. That was very specific. I just know the average.

So it's like 36. So like, all right. So everybody, listen, Alex's average client, but when they, when they sign up with Alex, his customer makes on average $36,000 per year. Alex, what is your least expensive product cost? Wait, whoa, hold. Actually, actually, for those of who are watching live, put in the comments what you think Alex's lowest, his self-liquidating offer. His front end offer.

The trip wire. What is his lowest, least expensive product cost? I want to see. tell me average client earns 36,000 all right we got $1,000 $10,000 $9, $47, a free book. $99, $9, $9,000, $9,000, $4,000. All right, Alex, what is your front-end offer cost? It's $20.20? 20 grand.

$20,000. Yeah. Is his low end? Now, listen, this is an important point here. First of all, we just shattered a bunch of beliefs. But I can't sell my candle for $40. Now, Alex's client makes $36,000, his low. lowest price product cost 16 grand. And you just heard him say that after they join,

they voluntarily pay it off early. Why? Because the entire product is focused on getting wins and results for the customer. And what's your highest tier program, Alex? It's 42,000. 42,000. Yeah. And you have quite the take rate, if I remember correctly. Yeah. I think we have, I think we're at 60%. 60%. Yeah. And these people are strong-armed and wrestled into upgrading, or they choose voluntarily? They choose voluntarily, and we let them try it out before they can choose to pay for it.

Okay. Are you guys seeing this? The entire structure of how Alex thinks is how do we remove all of the barriers for the client, for the customer, to get the that they want. And if we do that really well by removing as much friction as possible, then they will voluntarily line up to give us money. It's kind of how business works. And that's why Alex can spend money on advertising to put people into his pipeline and win and beat everybody else. You might remember remembering correctly that nobody was doing this when you started and now everybody is trying to go after the same market. Am I remembering that right?

Yeah, I don't think there were many gym gurus at the time when we came into the marketplace. I think the one guy who was selling a high ticket course was selling it for $5,000. That was like the high leader at the time. And most guys were selling $500 a month Facebook ads like that for you stuff. Like four gym owners? Yeah. And you just came in totally owned to the marketplace and then a bunch of people copied you. There's people out there who are teaching it and claiming to be successful at it.

And then you look at their books and they're not so successful at it. at it. And you're winning because your clients are getting results more than anything else. That, my friends, is how you put together a $100 million offer, which is the name of Alex's book, which you should go buy on Amazon right now for 99 cents. Alex obviously needs the money. He obviously needs you to go buy this book. And I need you to go leave a review on Amazon because you know how this game works. Real quick, guys, you guys already know that I don't run any ads on this and I don't sell anything. And so the only ask that I can ever have of you guys is that you help me spread the words. We can out more entrepreneurs, make more money, feed their families,

make better products, and have better experiences for their employees and customers. And the only way we do that is if you can rate and review and share this podcast. So the single thing that I has to do is you can just leave a review. It'll take you 10 seconds or one type of the thumb. It would mean the absolute world to me. And more importantly, it may change the world with someone else. Alex, I was hoping we could spend a minute or two talking about the ethics of charging $20,000 to someone who makes $36,000 because you lay this out. I love the story you tell about your dad.

Would you tell that story and explain how you think about going high ticket? Yeah. So I guess I can try and tell it half as well as I do it in the book when I had lots of practice and got the words right. But I had just posted a picture of our Jim Lord's event. This is pre-COVID. And I think we had 800, sorry, 700-ish people in attendance. And I posted it and I sent a picture to my dad or he messaged me. I can't remember what happened. And he was like, hey, I thought this was supposed to be the meeting of like your really highest level group, which is the $42,000 a year group. And I was like, yeah, it is. And all of a sudden, he like calls me up and he's extremely

concerned. He was like, do they know that you're, that they're getting billed that much? I was like, yes, they're aware. I'm not magically siphoning money from their accounts. Like, yes, they're aware. And then he asked, is that legal? To which I respond to yes, it's legal. And he was like, well, and I could tell that there was this pause of like major concern. And I was like, all right, if I could make you $239,000 extra this year pops. I was like, would you pay me $42,000? If you knew, be honest, I have a doubt that you would do that. Like, would you pay me $42,000? He was like, well, what would I have to do?

I was like, you'd have to work 15 hours a week for it. He was like, okay, well, how long would it take? And I was like, you would take 11 months to make the entire, entire money back? And he was like, okay, would I have to pay for it up front? And I was like, no, you could pay for it as you started making it. And he was like, then yeah, I would do it. And I was like, and that's why they do it too. And so for perspective, like as much as Ryan talks about like the numbers and a lot

a lot of people have talked about our numbers out of context and explained our success without actually being in any way associated with our company as it's the funnel, it's the marketing, it's the whatever. A client that we work with makes an extra $239,000 of top line revenue. They on average triple their profit. It's 3.1x their profit. They take their take home income, including our fees, net of our fees, from $29.50 a month to $8900 a month.

And so you're taking some from $36,000 a year to $100,000 a year on average, meaning half the make more money than that. And so, yes, we charge $42,000 a year in order to help someone go from $36,000 to $100,000 on average. But I think that that's more than reasonable considering what we, you know, our efficacy at doing that. And, you know, we purposely niche down because we understand niche pricing and we know that we can provide a better solution than anyone else can for a specific avatar. So it's like, if you are this specific type of person, you run this specific type of facility and you have this specific problem, we can solve it. And we've done it 4,000 times. So it's very unlikely that it's been chance at this point to, you know, hit the however

when it's possible. It's possible. It's possible. It's not, it's not probable. And so that's kind of the overarching scheme, which is like everyone always looks at like, what's the trick at selling this more? But like there isn't a trick because at a certain point, most people on here are probably have some level of conscious, right? Like you have some morality, you have some level of ethics. Not me. Not Ryan, but most people, right? And so you have this level of ethics. And so it ends up happening, though, is that if you don't actually deliver to the vast majority of the customers that you have, you will self-sabotage.

You will stop selling. You will give yourself reasons or your sales team will give you reasons or your customer support team will give you reasons as to why we shouldn't continue this business. And so, like, you have to sell yourself first. And the only way to do that is to truly be convicted. And like, the thing is, you can tell people you're convicted. But like, only you know if you're putting 100% of the effort that you, that you could possibly put in to making the product better than it currently is. Again, Alex is speaking for himself.

Not all of us have consciousness here. I am a Johnson and Johnson shill. This live is brought to you by Johnson and Johnson. They sponsored this for me to shill out everybody getting the vaccine. Alex, I wanted you to comment on, for those few who do have a conscience, I wanted you to comment about the the actual ethics of charging high ticket because in your book you talk about I don't remember if you said this or if this is my own words but charging a lot of money is the most loving thing that you can do for your customer or client yeah would you speak a little bit to that so I've always been a premium service guy so even when I owned my chain of jims way back in the day before I switched to doing what we do now and now we have our portfolio companies

because I want to sell from a place of certainty. I want to sell from a place of conviction. And the certainty that I want to have is not that I am certain that the person will achieve the result because I cannot be certain that someone is going to eat the food that I tell them to eat. I'm not certain that someone can go to the gym, but I can be certain that I am the best chance they have at being successful. And so that's the pivot that you have to make internally is, am I truly, am I certain? Because that's where the certainty will come from. Because anybody who says there's certain that someone's going to get a result is lined to themselves,

if there's anything that the client has to do. and most people who are in a coaching space or education space, whatever it is, the client has to do something. They have to do something. I can teach Spanish, and some people are not going to learn Spanish. I can be the best Spanish teacher in the world, right? It's going to happen. And so the question is, Spanish is a scam or are they bad students? They're also bad teachers.

I talk at length about price in the first third of the book, but I'll give you a couple of examples that I think might drive this home. So, first off, from a value perspective, people will value things in and of itself, I talked about there's different layers of value, right? Like things that you can change outside of the product that will inherently make it more valuable. So they did a blind taste test with three wines, a cheap wine, a middle wine, an expensive wine. And the taste testers asked the people, you know, rate the wines. And they concurrently rated the wines, you know, bad, middle, good according to price from poor, you know, from cheap, expensive, whatever, right? But what ended up being the truth is that they revealed to the people that all three wines were the same.

And so in a very real way, price provides value to a prospect. And that was on a consumer good. Now, you can put that on steroids when it comes to an educational product or something that has to do with training. There is more lure around expensive things. People want to buy expensive things. People become more convicted, the more they invested they become. So people pay who pay attention, right? And the more they pay, the more they pay attention, right?

That's right. The idea around this is that it is more ethical. If I say that I am trying to best serve my clients and I'm claiming that this is the best chance that they have at being successful, then I must use every lever in my arsenal to get them invested in their own success. And so I call this the virtuous cycle of price. But the more someone pays, the more invested they are, the more invested they are, the better the results they get, the better results they get, the more convicted your sales team is. the more people they sell at higher prices, the more profit you have to reinvest in the fulfillment to get more clients' results and around and around you go. And then on top of that, for you as the business owner, you become more convicted. Your self-worth improves, the impact you feel like

you're making increases, and you continue to have this virtuous cycle. On the flip side, and oh, and as a final one, people who pay the most are also the lowest maintenance. Easiest clients to deal with. But if you flip that entire equation, it's like- why you've priced your book so high at 99 cents. You do not want annoying readers. Yeah, I just don't want annoying readers at all. The flip side of this is like if you cut your prices, all of a sudden you have less money for fulfillment. People are less emotionally invested. You attract the worst quality customers. The conviction of your sales team drops. You have less profit left over to provide a better product, et cetera, right? And so it's a virtually surficious cycle of

price. And if we are claiming to be ethical individuals and we are claiming that we're going to create a product that's going to have the best chance at getting someone successful, then we must anchor in such a way that we're going to get them the most invested so that they are successful. My favorite thing about all of this is you having the conviction and the certainty to be able to sell something well or to sell something at all. And when you have conviction, you can look at Donald Trump. You can say words that don't make sense. And people will buy into the conviction that you have for the outcome that you want to create. And so many entrepreneurs in our space, the internet online business world are trying to find the system that creates money because

they are not certain rather than about selling what they are certain. And that is what creates the results in the success. And the thing that shifted for me in your book was that if you put in the the required time and commitment to making the product that you have conviction is right for the client and the customer, you win because you naturally outsell, out market, charge higher prices, get higher profits, can have more convicted salespeople over and over and over again. And you said something when we hung out last week about having these levers that you know that you can pull. Like, I know that when I spend more on advertising, I make more money. When I hire more salespeople, I make more money because you have the foundational pieces there in place.

And if you don't have that, then those levers can make you broke. But when you have that core foundational piece, you can pull all these levers and everything starts to grow. Is that a fair summary? Yeah, 100%. Would you talk a little bit about those levers, the more advertising, more salespeople? Yeah, when it looks back at like business decisions over time that have like consistently concurred with with making more money, hiring more salespeople in general makes me more money. Spending more dollars on advertising as a whole.

When I spend more money on advertising, we make more money. When I raise prices in general, we make more money. And so these are these have just been recurring themes that have happened throughout our business career. And so we try and do them, you know, as I don't say as frequently as, possible, especially at sales team and something like that for sure as frequently as we can. But yeah, those are, I mean, that's how we've done it. So, Alex, there's a question that has come up, you know, we had, we posted the podcast that we did together just a few days ago. And I've had this conversation come up quite a few times.

And I was hoping you could speak to it. And it's the question about how your mindset and your methodology applies to physical products. So a lot of my audience is Amazon sellers. Amazon is kind of naturally incentivized to have the lowest price. That's what they want to drive up. They want to have a lot of volume. It tends to reward people who have the lowest price. And so in the e-commerce world, we're definitely skewed to the Walmart model. And it completely flies in the face of what we're talking about.

How would you reverse that trend as an e-commerce entrepreneur? And by the way, everyone, Alex is not busy enough. So he also runs like a $15 to $20 million a year physical products brand as well. Am I underestimating you? Are you over that? No, I think it's like 16. Oh, okay, $16 million. Awesome.

You know, peanuts, but he's done it. So would you please comment on how you would reverse that trend? So the first question is just, do I have to sell on Amazon? If I do, then I look like I can answer it that way. But if I don't have to say. Let's go there. You're talking to, you're talking to an e-commerce entrepreneur who sells a million dollars a year across three to four products on Amazon exclusively. Okay.

But they're getting squeezed by Price Wars and competing on reviews. How do you reverse that trend with that person? On Amazon. Yes. All right. So if I'm on Amazon, so there's a section in the book where I talk, it's called the Delivery Cube. But basically, there's ways that you can peel apart your product. and it's a cube because there's six sides to it.

But this is like when I'm thinking about ideating for a product, this is the process that I kind of go through. And if we have a physical product, it's how can we add any kind of premiums that cost us nothing that are still going to be valuable? And so I'm going to just give you a hypothetical example, just drive this home. All right.

So let's say we had a massage, like I'm going to tie it back to physical products in a second, but just bear with me. So if I had a massage parlor, for example, and I were and I had a massage, a membership or whatever that I was trying to sell. If I were trying to sell that membership, I could go to every chiropractor in the area.

I could go to every physical therapist in the area. I could go to every orthotics dealer in the area. I could go to every scented candle person in the area. I could go to every yoga studio in the area and ask each of them to give me one to two free things of services that cost me nothing and put all of those things in a single offer. Right? If I just had, let's say,

I just gave you six examples for one business, right? So it's six different industries, and let's say we had 10 of each of them. So we got 60 free goodies. Now, all of a sudden, when I say, hey, if you get a massage at Alex's massage parlor, you also become a VIP member. All right? And the VIP member means that you're going to get 10 free chiropractor adjustments. You're going to get 10 free orthotics pieces.

You're going to get 10 free, whatever, right? And so with that, I took my thing and made it more valuable by using other people's things on top of it, all right? And so I just wanted to use that as a mental reframe for what I'm talking about. There's a lot of things outside of the product that we can use to make the core product itself more valuable because the customer has a lot of needs. And the good news is that when somebody has a lot of desires, it means they have- Alex, I'm sorry to interrupt you, but how many of you just had the biggest brain-gasm of your life? Like, you can see where this is going.

You're like, holy fuck, I thought, I think I just saw a piece of the matrix. And put in the comments right now, if you hashtag brain-gasm. if you just got a business boner. Like, I'm sitting here like, oh, my God, this is the greatest thing ever. And every page of Alex's book is like, oh, my, like, I need a cigarette. I need to step away from this. The hashtag braingasms are starting to happen. We've got multiple brain gasms happening in the comments, Alex.

All right. Now, please keep going. I'm ready. Sorry, we both blew some lines of on switch before we got to. Yes, we did. Proud sponsor. The response to my on Switch and Johnson and Johnson. And Johnson.

So the delivery cube is basically what I walk through mentally to think, how am I going to deliver the thing? So first is what's the outcome, all right? The outcome is what are the other problems that are answer-lating problems that this customer is going to have or experience before or after they use the product? You're good. Okay. what are the things we're going to happen immediately before

and immediately after they use my product. And there's going to be problems they're going to be with these are cut of those things. And how can I solve that problem before and after? Right. So now that I've identified what the problems are that are going to be associated with the product,

then I can pull these problems out and think, okay, now I'm going to splay them out and think how many different ways can I solve this, right? And so let's say we've got somebody and you're in the supplement space. I'll just say, for example, right? So if you're in the supplement space or nutraceutical space, whatever,

then this person might want to lose weight. All right. Well, what other things can I do that might, that somebody who's trying to lose weight and buying my fat burner, right? What else might they want? Well, they might want an eating out guide. They might want a grocery list. They might want a cooking guide. They might want a lick your fingers lunches, a delectable dinners, a shake guide, a breakfast guide. They might also want a calculator that's for on budget so they can have stuff that's cheap so that they can lose weight on a budget. They might want to also have family friends. meals they can make for themselves and their family, right? They might want to have something they can do for work, right? You might also want to have the workout guide that they can do at a

real gym or they can do it at home, right? These are all things that take one-time time-time investments that you can add into the core product for no added cost and then sell that product at a premium because of the ancillary values we've stacked onto it. Now, that's just one example of the six on the delivery tube. It would probably take more time to get through it. But each of these things are layers of value you can look at. Like, you could all. You could all. You can all. You can also add premium support on text as a way that you can support customers that no one else has, right? You could do it via phone. You can do it via Zoom. You can do it via chat. You can do it like, that's just one of the things. It's like that is a medium, which is one of the, one of the groups.

And then speed and convenience being another one of the layers that you can add on to it. So before you go there, all of you who ask questions like, how do I get my Amazon data? How do I get my customers email addresses from Amazon. Amazon hides it. You give them great shit. That's how. You call attention to all of the other ways that you help them accomplish their goals and overcome their challenges.

And then you get them on text lists and emails and they come to Zoom calls and they join your Facebook group and they join your Discord and your Slack channel and any other place that you actually serve them. You actually treat them like VIPs. That's how you build a VIP list. You actually overcome their challenges rather than just slapping together a free e-book that you put on the inserts in your packaging. You actually over-deliver for the goals that they are trying to accomplish.

And then they voluntarily find you and buy everything that you put out. And then you build launch. That's how you build a launch list where you don't need to do a bunch of giveaways and rebates and use rebate key and break terms of stuff. service in order to get reviews. You don't need to. You're too busy winning. You're too busy winning to have to try and copy everybody else's strategies that your customers go to bat for you. That's how you win. That's how you actually build the list and the responsive customers that buy from you over and over and over again. And by the way, the rant that Alex just went on

was if you just had one product and you made a list of all the other things that they needed and you didn't create the products around them. You just create partnerships with all these people. And that becomes part of the step. Imagine if you started asking the question, okay, well, we have this challenge and now we're going to release this product that actually solves this. And now you have the virtuous cycle of price working in your favor. Did you just say that was one of the six cubes? Yeah, one of the ways that you can do this?

Yeah. I need a cigarette. And what's also kind of cool about this is like we just talked about all those partnerships, right? So if you're trying to increase your average order value, if those people redeem 10 of those things that you just gave them and those partners that you made a partnership with paid you for free customers, then you're increasing and all of that's true bottom line to you. So you could give away your product for free and then make all of your money on the partnerships on the

back end if you really wanted to. So like Layla and I make a couple million dollars a year, just an affiliate partnership rebates coming back to us because we already, you know, we already know we want to enhance the value of the products that we have. We were going to make the introduction anyways, we might as well get paid for it by gathering and aggregating the solutions in one place, because that's what our customers want anyways. But as a mental, mental fun exercise, I want to run three fun mental tests for everyone that I've gotten good feedback on. The first is if you were selling your product for $100,000, what would you include to make that product worth $100,000? Like, think about it. Like if someone paid you for the same outcome,

because fundamentally everyone's always paying for the outcome, right? The girl's, who buys a $5 ebook and the girl who buys a liposection are buying the same outcome, the other variables of value are different, right, which either enhance or detract the price that you're able to charge, right? And so if we have a $100,000 thing for a dream outcome versus a $5 thing for a dream outcome, what would I deliver at $100,000? That's thought process number one. Thought process number two is whatever the price of your current thing, if you had to get them the same outcome for a tenth of the price, what would you have to build or do to get them there. That's the second. And the third one, and this is probably

my favorite of them, is if everyone here had no rebates, you had no advertising dollars, and all you had was one guaranteed customer who was going to buy the product. And the only way for your business to grow was for that person to tell someone else about the product. What would you have to do to make that happen? To guarantee. When you say one person, Do you mean one type of person or one individual? You get one purchase and you have to deliver such an experience to that one purchase that is what kicks off your business. I love that question.

Because I think if we ask the right questions, we get much better answers. A lot of people are like, well, how do I make more money? It's like, how do you get every single customer you have to send you five customers? Well, it's like, well, even that question, maybe it's been overly hurt. So it's like, what if you only had one fucking customer? Sorry. Who's going to put it? And I like that there's one shot because it's like you have to make it so over the top that you can't say, well, we know 20% are going to refer it.

It's like, what if we only had one shot, one opportunity? It's everything we've ever wanted. It's our moment. Hope you guys enjoyed part one of the podcast with Brian Dinden and we ran from Capitalism.com. In the next half of this podcast, we dive deep into the sequence of making the dollars, creation of flow, adding friction. how much and when and how to pair that with exceptional customer experience and results. I think you guys want to tune in. It's a good one.