The Game with Alex Hormozi - From Sacrifices to Success: The Path to Becoming the Hero (on The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk) | Ep 681

Episode Date: April 19, 2024

“Where I want to go not many people have gone and it's going to be by its very nature difficult and fraught with hardship” Today, join Alex (@AlexHormozi) as he guests on The Learning Leader Show with Ryan Hawk to share his insights on challenging traditional success norms, sharing insights on personal growth, authenticity, and resilience. He discusses his journey in the fitness industry, his strategic approach to sustainable business growth at Acquisition.com, and the importance of choosing the right life partner for overall success.Welcome to The Game w/Alex Hormozi, hosted by entrepreneur, founder, investor, author, public speaker, and content creator Alex Hormozi. On this podcast you’ll hear how to get more customers, make more profit per customer, how to keep them longer, and the many failures and lessons Alex has learned on his path from $100M to $1B in net worth.Follow Ryan Hawk on:➤ Instagram | Spotify | Apple | LinkedIn | Twitter➤ Check out full episode on YouTube!Timestamps:(0:46) - The unconventional wisdom of never skipping dessert(2:06) - Embracing your true self against the grain(6:51) - The journey of self-discovery and breaking free(8:22) - The power of doing you: overcoming fear and judgment(11:20) - Finding your path: the courage to start anew(13:17) - Reconciliation and growth: mending fences with the past(18:12) - Choosing your life partner: the ultimate teammate(19:52) - The philosophy of growth and achieving big goals(22:47) - The essence of work: finding joy in the grind(26:07) - Building a legacy: the vision behind Acquisition.comFollow Alex Hormozi’s Socials:LinkedIn | Instagram | Facebook | YouTube | Twitter | Acquisition

So if I want to have these character traits, then I have to vanquish big dragons and big monsters along the way. The bigger the monster, the more epic the hero. And so it's like if you want to maximize the hero, then you got to go and slay big monsters. And so that's what I want. I want to maximize the hero. Welcome to the game where we talk about how to get more customers, how to make more per customer, and how to keep them longer, and the many failures and lessons we have learned along the way. I hope you enjoy and subscribe.

Well, I have a million notes, dude, that this would go on for eight hours. But I just saw recently another one flying through that I thought, I'm going to talk to him about this, even though it has nothing to do with anything else. What's the deal with never skipping dessert? This is great. This is segue into something that I've been wanting to talk about. Good. So like I see the videos that are like the Hermosi content method, the how Alex Hermose, the four pillars of Alex Hermosie's brand. They like, they try to like ascribe marketing terms to like what we're doing.

when in reality we do none of that. I'm always curious. I'm like, oh, what are my pillars? And so like, never skip dessert happened because I come from a fitness background. And everyone in my early audience was fitness people.

And they're always like, never skip Monday, never skip leg day. And I was like, fuck it, never skip dessert. You know what I mean? And so it was just counter to everything else.

I just thought it was cute and funny because I like eating dessert and I still have a six pack. And so maybe there's another way to do it. And so anyways, the point was, It was just me being me, right? And then I did no idea. It was going to, I mean, it was just one time.

I did never skip dessert. And then like 50 people tagged me the next week with desserts and stuff. And so I think it was a relatively cute saying put around an event that people usually want to document anyways. When dessert comes and it's all fancy, like you want to take a picture of it, but you don't want to be that person. And it just gave people permission to post something they wanted to post anyways. And so I think that's why those two things kind of combined.

But for me, like somebody was like, so did you? Did you like think about the wife beater? I was like, I get hot a lot. And so I wear wife beaters. Like I can work out in them and like I can throw something on top if I get cold. You know what I mean? And I throw the flannels on that I have because they're really soft and comfortable. That's why I wear it.

Like I wear the shorts that I wear because they can get wet. I can go to the gym and I can go to a nice restaurant in them. And I get my phone in my side pocket. And while I'm sitting down right now that I haven't taken out of my pocket every time. I had one of my team asked me this. He was like, so what do you tell somebody who is boring? You're just like, interesting. I was like, I don't think that's true.

I think that people suppress themselves because they're afraid of other people's judgment. I think people would do more things that are more like them if they weren't afraid of looking different. But if the whole point, like the point isn't to stand out. The point is just do you. And because everyone else doesn't do them, you will stand out as a result. But it's more the outcome than it is.

the desired result. Did you ever have that fear and you had to get over it? Or have you just, you've never really worried about that and just always have done you? No, of course, I've had insecurities. I mean, I just think that over time,

they just become less and less important. I mean, I think a lot about my 85 year old self, good old grandpa, grandpa Alex. And I just think that guy doesn't give a fuck. Yep. And I'm just thinking like,

if that guy doesn't give a fuck then, I might as well not give a fuck. fuck now. Old people are happier than everyone else except for kids. It's a smile you've probably seen the graph, the smiley face where it's like you're happiest when you're a child, you're really miserable at 40. And then you become happy again at like 60ish when you realize that like nothing mattered to begin with. Right. And then you just do you. Right. And so I was just like if I'm going to come to that conclusion eventually anyways, I might as well just start now. And like I wear comfortable shoes that don't look cool. But if I'm going to do it,

I'm 85, I might as well do it now. Like, they don't care. They're not worried about it. They're like, I got a bunion. You're right? Like, shit hurts. I got to wear the nice soft shoes. Right?

And I'm good with it. I'm just fine with it. I don't know. It just doesn't bug me. But so, but that's still against the grain. Most people do. They struggle with us. They think about that.

I remember my dad, specifically this moment, I shared it a lot. I'm getting ready for like this banquet or something. And I'm like, oh, do I wear these pants or these pants? He goes, they don't care about your pants. They care about their pants. And I just thought, like, I thought that part of it as well as being worried about that. But you've come to this realization and able to act on it, which is even harder, sooner than most. How do you think you have, you've done that?

I think about the fact that I'm going to die every day. Really? It's probably the thought that I think most frequently throughout the day. Are you scared of that? No. Just the realization this is going. to happen. I'm going to die. Yeah. I could die tomorrow. Yeah. What a shame it would be if I cared about what pants. If I think about this, imagine I died tomorrow and I was wearing something really

uncomfortable for this meeting. Wouldn't you be like, man, I can't believe like, what a shame? He didn't do what he wanted to do. So like, as long as what you want to do is legal, right? And it's not hurting anybody. So to the point about patience where I've been reinforced over and over again for being more and more patient for figuring out things to do in the meantime while my longer goals continue to compound. To the same degree, I have been reinforced for just doing me. And so maybe you need to take that first step of just, like, maybe for just afraid to wear a hat or maybe you like like mustaches and you don't want to have a mustache. The first big thing I had was I did wear, I had a huge handlebar for five years. Yeah. And that's weird. It was super weird. I looked like a

porn star, like a 70s porn star. But like I remember I was shaving one day and I came out of the bath. I looked at my wife and I was like, this is funny. And then I, the thing is, it made my day bright. And so like every morning I'd wake up and I'd be like, I can't take myself that serious. And I don't know. Maybe I am more insecure than most people. And so this is just my visual reminder to myself to not care. I don't know.

But I will say that doing me despite the fear of what other people will quote, judge me for and then survive it, living another day. with their judgment or without their judgment. It's just like the more evidence that I have that I can continue to live. Like to the dad example that you have, right? In my situation, my dad would be like, you're not going out like that,

are you? And so like, I had to in an early time just be like, I'm going to fucking do me. I don't want to like. And so my, I would say like my big breaking, right,

as a human was when I was probably 20, 21, 22. And that's when I quit my job and I left. I left Baltimore. I left everything mine. And I think that was by far the most, that was the scariest thing I'd ever done to my life. To this day, it's been the scariest thing I've ever done in my life was quitting my job. Because it wasn't just quitting my job. It was what quitting my job signified about everything else. It meant that everything that I had done at that point, I'd been building this life that I didn't want to live. I was building a life that my dad wanted

me to live to get his approval. And the thing is when I, when my approval rating for my father was at its absolute highest, when it was when I was my, my, absolute saddest as a human being. And so when I left that job, I basically started from scratch and was like, well, what do I want to do? And I was like, well, I like fitness. I'm going to get in a I don't know, I'm going to figure that out. And he's like, what are you going to be a personal trainer? You know what I mean? It's like you're a Vanderbilt grad. You've got, you graduated in three years. You had this white collar job on a fast track to go into a top Ivy League business school. He's like, you're set as I was about to culminate in like the ultimate.

setness by his standard. I quit everything and started a gym, which is like as a person trainer, like a blue collar, not a very high income thing. And so I think being willing to die to him then was what allowed me to live to me. And my father's approval was the person whose opinion I cared the most about in the whole world. And so once I was able to not care about his opinion, no one else's opinion really came even close. You know what I mean? Like I was raised by a single father It was Middle Easter. Like, I had no siblings. I barely had a mother.

And so, like, imagine your brother, your mother, your sister, your uncle, all of the people that you used to care about their opinion, all in one person. And that person's approval made or broke your day, month, week, year. And, like, that was my life. And my dad, God bless him, would always move the flag for what achievement was. So if I aced everything, he's like, you should have aced it faster. Like if I got a 99, it wasn't like congrats on the A. The question was just, what did you get wrong?

It was always like that. Like to the point that, like, it's not weird for me to say that. It was just always like that. Like, I was just used to that. I didn't know that other people's parents didn't do that. Right. And whoever that person is that I think you care the most about their approval is, is I think the person that you need to be willing to get disapproval from

to do what you want to do. And to me, it felt like death. And the only way I was literally able to do this was because I didn't want to live anymore. And so I don't know how extreme of a circumstance other people aren't. Some people probably aren't as dissatisfied as I was. I was incredibly sad. I was 21, 22, right? I'm at this point.

I have a consulting job. I have my own condo. I'm successful by all means, by all, you know, external means. And I'm going on my balcony every night and just thinking to myself, like, is this it? And always thinking that night, like, if I didn't wake up tomorrow, like, I wouldn't be that upset. Like, I wasn't like, I'm going to jump off this thing. But I was just like, if I didn't wake up, I'd be okay with it. And the more times I kept thinking that, I was like, dude, if you don't want to wake up, then fuck it.

You know what I mean? Like, if right now, I basically felt like the walking dead. Like, if I feel like death, then whatever else is out there can't be worse than, that. And so that was what I kept repeating to myself was like sometimes you have to let his dreams die for yours to live. And they were mutually exclusive. Some people are like, you know what? They just watch what's best for you. Fuck that. My did not like he does long term, but not for the first few years. Like he was not stoked. Like I was so afraid of my father that I literally drove across the country and called him when I was already halfway there to tell him that I

left. So I didn't want him to convince me. He had a lot of influence of him. So I knew I had to change the environment. I had to change my conditions. And so like if you were in one of those states where it's like you feel paralyzed, it's usually because you have conditions that make it very difficult for you to leave. The easiest way to change behavior is to change your environment. And so I went to California. I went to the furthest place possible from Baltimore, Maryland. I went to Southern California. Like on a map, there's like, there's basically nothing that's further away from Baltimore, Maryland. And I went there and I didn't know anybody. One guy on the internet said, I could stop by his gym. So I drove straight to this guy's gym. And I was like, hey,

I'm here. And he's like, oh, where are you staying? I was like, I don't know yet. He's like, what do you don't know? I just got here. And he was like, well, I got shit to do. I'm like, I'm working. And I was like, okay. He's like, well, shit. He's like, you can stay at my place tonight, but you got to figure something. I was like, okay, thanks. So next day, went into the gym with him that morning and he just got on a chair and was like, hey, I got this kid, who here can give him a room? One guy came up to me. I was like, I aren't your room. I rented a room for 400 bucks a night or 400 bucks a month from this guy in China. That's how, and like I went from this top secret clearance, defense contracting, three year magdum laude, Vanderbilt, Ace my GMAT, all that to

sleeping in some guys, some random guys. I'm actually still friends of them. Some random guys room because I was just like, I need a reset. The game that I was trying to win wasn't a game that I had designed. It was my dad's game. So I was trying to win at my dad's game. And I just realized they didn't want to play that. Hey, Mosin, nation, quick break just to let you know that we've been starting to post on LinkedIn and want to connect with you. All right, so send me a connection request and note letting me know that you listen to the show and I will accept it. There's anyone you think that we should be connected with, tag them in one of my or playlist posts and I will give you all the love in the world. All right. So let's get back to the show.

What was that call like when you're driving across the country? What was that? What was that car ride like? The call like you called your dad after you're already on the way. Ah, I mean, he was pissed. What was going to do? Is he still alive? My dad? Yeah. So what's your relationship with with him like now? We're good. We're good. We're fine. I mean, you saw that it worked out. So he's cool. Well, There's got to be more to it than that, man. I mean, this is obviously the most pivotal person in your life. And now you've gone from that. You quit.

You left. You started anew. And then boom. Like, I can't even imagine what he's thinking. Like, how proud is he now? Yeah, I'll tell you the two conversations that matter. Okay. So in the car ride, when I called him, he basically, I was like, hey, I'm going to go to

do this gym thing. And he was like, uh, come over, like, have lunch. We'll talk about it. which he knew was like, I'll talk you off the cliff. This was like a weekly cadence we had. I would say, I don't want to do this anymore. I want to start my own business. And he'd be like, just, it's fine.

Just follow the path. Go to business school. Get a business degree. And then you can do business later. Like, it's fine. And so that was just like the routine we were in. And I was like, I can't. And he was like, I'm in Ohio.

He was like, what do you mean you're in Ohio? And the tone changed. And he was like, you're so unbalanced. You're so extreme. It's always all or nothing with you. This is ridiculous. You're throwing away your education. Why did we do all, like all this stuff?

And I was just like, I'm not coming back. And so that was kind of it. And then we didn't talk much, occasional texts here and there, but like, I'm alive. Still cared about me, but he was not, he didn't approve. Whatever you do when you have somebody who you absolutely love, because I know my father loves me to death, but completely didn't approve of my life. So that level of communication. We didn't talk about anything because anything we talked about, we couldn't fight, right?

So very short conversations. So fast forward five years, right, six years. I now have gym lunch, and we're past the losing everything part, right? I'm taking home a million plus a month in income. And so I get a call from my dad, and we haven't spoken much, right? And so I'm out to dinner with Layla and her parents in Michigan or in the summer. And so I'm like, I got to take this. This is weird.

It doesn't really call me out of the blue. So I answer the phone. I step outside. I'm like, what's up? And he's like, you're going to want to sit down for this. And I was like, either he is cancer or he's apologizing. That was it like literally my thought. I was like, okay.

And he was like, you ready? I was like, okay. He was like, I'm sorry. And I was like, huh? And I was like, for what? He was like, for everything, for all of it. You were right. This was a good path for you to take.

He's like, but for the record, if it had been in my time, I would have been right. And I should have taken it for what it was because like, in the culture that my father was brought up, like fathers don't apologize to sons ever. It just doesn't happen. And this is the first time my dad ever wants. So I should have taken it for that. Right. It's like a really strong attempt at an olive branch.

But I didn't. And I just remember saying like, I stopped caring about what you thought five years ago when I packed the car and I left. And I was like, so your apology doesn't really mean anything. I was like, I got over what you thought a long time ago. I was like, so I'm glad you were over it. And he was like, well, we'll see how long it lasts. So that was my kind of exchange with my dad at that point.

And so obviously we're fine now. We've made amends. But like, it had now been five or six years, right? And I had already gone through losing everything multiple times. And I had slept on the floor for that long period of time. Right. I think there's a saying that says like, every man becomes a man when this father dies. And I think, I don't think your father has to die, obviously, but I think that

your need for your father's approval has to die at some point. So either the person, like, your need for their approval dies, where they physically die and there's no way you can get it again. And so I think that is what ultimately like unchange most people and then allows them to be their own man. And so I had quote, been my own or become my own man when I was 21, 22. too. And after disappointing the man that I cared the most about in my entire life, comments on the internet, you know what I mean? Like you can hear in the tournament like how like like Susie Q who says that like she doesn't want to buy a gym membership. But one of the reasons that Layla and I have worked out really well is that Layla expects nothing for me. And she's never

asked me to change. I mean, her expectation is that I keep being me. Now me keep being me is I'm to go for it. You know what I mean? But she's never tried to ask me to be less of who I am in order to be with her. And so she's always just been like our relationship has been both of us wanting to go to this place, both walking in the same direction and being like, you want to walk together? And that's what's worked for us. I'm not saying that's every, I think most people won't find that, to be honest with you, because it's weird and it's not common. You've written that for anyone debating whether to marry a partner, these two lenses were useful. one, how have my stats changed since they entered my life, which would be wealth, health,

and time, that's for you. And two, would I go to war with them? I thought about that a lot with my own marriage. It's out like, man, that's a really good point. And I think about a lot of the good things that have happened since Miranda's coming to my life, my wife. And like, that's a, I like that, man. And it sounds like this is something that you think about.

What about your stats and going to war and why that's so important for the person that you choose to spend your life with? One, I like evidence that I've made a good decision. So that's where the stats come from. The war thing is more of a projecting into future situation. So it's kind of like a past for prediction of future, right? I didn't think about it that way when I was writing it, but I agree with it. I'm glad I still agree with pass out.

The war thing is I've got to want to go to war with this person, have them covering my six, right? Shoulder to shoulder to shoulder. etc back to back because where I want to go not many people have gone and it's going to be by its very nature difficult and fraught with hardship and so if someone wants a puffy life that I could I could give someone you know what I mean then that's not going to be the person who's going to help me get to where I ultimately want to go and the where I want to ultimately go isn't really a place to who I want to become and the place I want to go is just my mountain to climb in order to get there. But it's really more about my lungs being able to breathe at the top

of the mountain than it is me being at the top of the mountain itself. Do you think you think bigger than most people? No, I think that I've achieved things earlier and so then I set my goals to the next thing. It's because I've achieved a decent amount from a material perspective. I've just moved the goal line. I think that's really all is. I don't want to think I don't really think I don't really think particularly bigger. It's just so like if you're making 10 grand a month, then your next goal is 100. When you're making 10 million a month, your next goal is 100 million a month. You don't I mean. Like it just, I'm just moving zeros like everyone else said, but like I just checked the box off earlier. But outside of money and not just talking about it, I just like overall life.

Like think like you, you, the extension of that is that you said they flow from what I want, which is growth and two is hard goals. I need someone who can handle both of those things. So like hard goals are are probably big goals or big things that you want. I'm just wondering if that's kind of the way you view it is. I want something big. I want something harder. I want something more than what the average person wants. That's why I can't be partnered with the average person. So I would say that the goals again are.

So instead of saying I think bigger about the goals, it's like I want to be bigger. Yeah. As a person, as a human. And so if we define like, how do you make, how do you make someone patient? You put them through hard shit, right? How do you make someone who's tough? You put them through hard times. So if I want to have these character traits, then I have to vanquish big dragons,

the big monsters along the way. The bigger the monster, the more epic the hero. And so it's like if you want to maximize the hero, then you got to go and slay big monsters. And so that's what I want. I want to maximize the hero in the story. I want to just, I want to squeeze like my goal is to squeeze every fucking drop of potential that I've got out of me.

And so I have to face big bosses. And that also means using whatever path I have behind me to try and predict the path I have before me. So I keep trying to do shit. so I can prove to myself that I can do more. Do you ever get tired from that, though? Do you ever just want to chill out and relax and say, God, I've been going hard for a while? I just want to chill out, man.

Macro, micro, micro, no. Micro, sure. You know what I mean? How do you do that? How do you chill? How do you relax? I'm like a, I'm a basic bitch when it comes to that stuff. Like, I'll pool day.

You know what I mean? Like, I'll pool and drink margaritas. You know what I mean? How do you eat dessert and drink margaritas and look like that? Yeah, well, that's just counting your macros and knowing what you're doing. But the step one, pick the right parents. Step two, start training when you're 14. Step three, go on tier T at age 30.

I haven't done this as much because Layla doesn't like this much. But I'll binge. I would love to just binge movies or TV. But usually for me, it's about a half day. Yeah. So it's like I can work six and a half out of seven. And that's usually what it ends up being, six and a half out of seven. I can work.

You work six and a half out of seven days. So you're just, I can work six and a half out of seven. Yeah. Yeah. Do you get to the point where you're saying, man, I made a lot. I'm flying private. I'm doing whatever I need to do. Maybe I can work four and a half instead of seven and enjoy more of this.

Or is the work part of what you enjoy? You got it. Okay. What would I do? I just want to like, I want to do epic shit. You're doing what you want to do. Like in your free time, you're doing what you want to do. Yeah.

And that's the thing. So I get every once in a while work Twitter or lifestyle Twitter or whatever will come out and get really agro about something. I say about work. But it's just because their definition of work and my definition of work are different. Like, I define work as what I do every day. You know what I mean? And like, it just so happens to make money. But I enjoy the game. And so I just want to play the game as much as seemingly possible because it is reinforced me for playing it. So I play as much of it as I possibly can until my work per unit of time drops and then I hardcore relax. But for people who make sacrifices with their work, which I absolutely respect, if you don't like the job that you're in, but you need to because

you've got people who are dependent on you, I think there's honor in that. And I think in some ways, like, you can actually reframe your work again, because I'm big on perspectives. Like, you can reframe the work into something you do enjoy. It's like, I enjoy providing for my family. Like, this is what higher cause is there. But I don't need a break from the game unless I physically need a break from the game. And then I take one. When you think about all the people in your life that you've surrounded yourself with, that you've been intentional to bring into your orbit, that you've attracted to your orbit, which are a lot of people who have made it happen. These are a lot of people who have sustained excellence over an extended period of time.

What have you found to be some of the commonalities among those people? They don't try and change me and they want to grow. And that's about it. That's really, that's about it? Yeah. They got to want to grow. Like there's nothing that drives me more crazy. Well, one is if someone tries to change me, they're up.

It's not oil and vinegar. It's not going to work. What about people in your life who say, do you have people in your life though who say, Alex is a bad idea? No, don't do this. Or, hey, maybe this way, like the kitchen cabinet, so to speak, to say, hey, man, like, do you have those no people to, okay. Well, there's difference between, like, criticizing an idea or criticizing a way of living.

So if someone's going to attack values and that's like, I feel very strong about my values. But my ideas, you know, loosely help. You know what I mean? This is my best. Sure. Like, when we introduce an idea to the group, it's always like, this is my best, bad idea. You know, I'll say love my idea for five seconds. And then I'll say it.

And then it's like, you can, you can tear it apart, right? But the growth thing, I'd love to, you know, grow my business. I'm like, cool, man. Like, you should do that. I see me a year later. And I'm like, how'd that go? Oh, you know, lost, busy, man, last stuff's been coming up. And I'm like, yeah, sure has.

And they're like, I've been meaning to pick your brain. I'm like, I don't think so. I think I already said everything I thought last time. I had that happen multiple times. They're like, I'd love to pick your, I was like, you already did. And I already gave you what I thought and you haven't done it. So I was like, there's really no point in me repeating the same statements. Do that.

We can talk. What are your values? Giving first, thinking long, having work itself being noble, trying to motivate off a reward, not punishment. I think truth in general, in all its various forms. But if I were to tell you the companies ones, it's competitive, greatness, sincere candor, and unimpeachable character. Which we haven't brought up, acquisition.com.

I know we got to run in a second. But briefly, why start Acquisition.com? Why was that the next step? And what exactly does Acquisition.com do? Yeah. Blaylon and I from the exit, and we'd taken about $40 million out before the exit. We had enough money to start a family office. And so Acquisition.com exists as our family office for investments.

And while we still had some of the companies before our bigger exit, we had made two or three investments that worked out really well. And so we said, you know what? I think I want to do this. I think that's what I want to do. I want to go buy businesses. buy chains, buy brick and mortar stuff, buy normal consumer businesses or business services, businesses, just normal businesses and do what we do.

And so you look for founders who are sincerely candorous, they tell the truth and can take the truth, they have unappeasable character. We're proud to associate with them on and off the field. And they're competitively great. They want to go out for the big hill. They're not afraid of a hard challenge. And they revel in the hard challenge.

They're eager to attack. Like that's what we're looking for. And so if we see founders who are doing for us, The minimum is a million in EBTA. The largest company we have is 20 million in EBTA. So that's kind of the range. I think the median is probably four or five. EBDA being profit, turning was new.

It was new for profit. So we invest in those businesses. Sometimes as a minority growth partner, sometimes as a majority, just depends on the situation. And then our goal is to just hold and grow. But if the founder really wants to have a big exit, then we can optimize for that. But like for us, I'd rather just continue to grow tax-free. and grow the equity value and the enterprise value of the business. I don't need a liquidity event, but if they want one, then we can go off the marshal on.