The Game with Alex Hormozi - How to Charge 3x Without Losing Clients. Hormozi Hotline | Ep 917

Episode Date: December 9, 2025

Welcome to The Game w/Alex Hormozi, hosted by entrepreneur, founder, investor, author, public speaker, and content creator Alex Hormozi. On this podcast, you’ll hear how to get more customers, make more profit per customer, how to keep them longer, and the many failures and lessons Alex has learned and will learn on his path from $100M to $1B in net worth.Wanna scale your business? ⁠⁠⁠Click here.⁠⁠⁠Follow Alex Hormozi’s Socials:⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn ⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠Facebook⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠YouTube ⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠Twitter⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠Acquisition ⁠

We're going to do more Mozy, her Mozy Hotline, and we're going to come in hot. What if AI kills us all? You won't know because you'll be dead. And if it kills everyone, then all status games are over. And as soon as it's human against machine, we all lose. And until then, it's going to be humans using machines against humans using machines, which is what it's been since the dawn of time, except swap machines for tech, but you get the idea. I would love to know how to be a giver or not a taker. It's super easy, bro. You just give and don't ask for anything back and you give to people. And then when they ask you if they can do something, then at that point you're taking. Hey, Alex, how are you doing? What's up, man? All right, talk

to me. What's up in the business? This is Sonia, this is Dr. Sonny DeZerich, man, I'm a carapractor. Been two years in so far, seven years as a total car contractor. And yeah, man, I'm just trying to figure out like, okay, when I build momentum this year and it's like, okay, how do I know when to keep going for more. How do I know when to just keep the momentum that I'm at, not overstretched? Because I made a mistake earlier this year, and I'm just writing the loans ever since. Okay. When do you... What was the mistake? Yeah. I started diving into mentors, sales coaching, marketing on Facebook. I'm just getting in all these expenses, just trying to grow from the revenue I got. Okay. Well, first off, I'll say this. If you pay one-time expenses in order for you to learn, I wouldn't see those as losses, unless you

learn nothing. If you learn things that are just you need to put into place in the business and they haven't fully come to fruition yet, I just see that as an investment. So I just wouldn't frame it that way, like thing one. Okay. Second thing, are you at full capacity at your existing location? No. I was at, I mean, I'm not no. Okay. Got it. So do you know how to advertise to you get leads? I've had some help from other marketing companies. Okay. I think it's worth you learning for yourself. If you want to like if you want to be in this in the because like the transition that you have to make right now and this is a bit of a decision for you which is like do I want to be an artist or do it want to be a business bin and there's nothing wrong with either of those But you have to make a choice okay it's let me give you let me give you a totally different example but it'll illustrate the point So let's say that you're really going to making leather wallets all right and let's see you're a craftsman and so you make these level of wallets people start wanting them you keep making more leather wallets

There's two success paths success path one is like you just love making wallets but you have more more demand than you have time. And so you keep doing a good job and people keep wanting them. And so you can only make 10 wall today or whatever your math is. And then all you do is you keep raising the price because you have more demand than you can handle. Keep raising the price. And that is to me the path of the technician is the path of the artist. The other path, and there's nothing wrong with that. And you can make a ton of money doing that. The other path is the path of businessman. He says, okay, you know, I have these leather wallets. I can hire other people to make these wallets for me. I'm going to train them up, or I can build machines that can do this

with automation. I'm going to build a manufacturing line that can make these wallets even better than I could at a faster rate. And I can do it because I'm buying in bulk. I can buy materials for half the price. And then all of a sudden, he becomes a business band, right? But all of a sudden, you're like, wait, I was a wallet guy. Why do I have to learn manufacturing and supply and all this other stuff? It's like, well, it's because it's a different game. And so I think for you as a chiropractor, you have to make the call, do I want to be a businessman or do want to be a chiropractor? Do I want to be a technician or do I want to be in the game?

I think I've been, I went from being the artist to let me switch to a businessman. And then I'm like learning the hard way. And I'm like, I think I want to go back to me. The hard way is the only way. Dude, it's the only way. How long it takes you to learn to be a car car practice? Seven and a half years. Right.

And business isn't any different. If anything, there's more stuff. True. I'm only two years in. So, I'm waiting for that third year to five. Yeah, I promise you. I'll promise you this, and I hope we have a great callback, so I'll see if we put a note on this.

I promise you that when you're five years in, if you keep at it, that's the big caveat, if you keep at it, you'll grow. If that's what you want. If you keep at it, all the money I had from all my gyms went to zero after five years. So, like, the only thing

that's the outcome of this is your skills. That's all. And you're used to investing education, so I don't think there's anything wrong with that. But with regards to, like, all we have to do for your business, though, like, let me zoom all the way out for like, how do you make this thing successful? The end state of what this looks like for you is that you nail your individual model with a way to have very sticky customers, option one. Or option two, you find a way to charge as much as you nearly possible. I've really rarely seen chiropractors to succeed in any other way.

They either have a very, very good recurring model that people don't stop. or they charge $5,000, $10,000 for more specialized, you know, neuropathy, blah, blah, that kind of stuff. And they sub-specialize in the things that people are willing to pay a ton of money for. And they sell, you know, your long service packages with supplements and things like that. So those are the, it's like either ultra-high ticket or you build something that has really high stick. Once you nail that model, then, like I'm telling you the skills that you're going to have to learn. That's thing one. thing two is in learning that you'll have to learn how to generate leads and sell them right after you've done that part

then you're going to have to learn the game of attracting talent and you'll probably have to give up call it 10%ish maybe 20 of the single location to get another carpenter in there who's motivated enough to continue to work as hard as you will to make sure that the service quality is high and then at that point you'll ascend into the m&A game which is either and I would recommend given the nature of the business that you're in I would probably go via the m&A route rather than build so I'd rather just just buy just fine it's so easy to find caropactors that are you know that will sell their businesses for basically zero that it's easier to just retrofit them and then that would be once you're in the game game but that might take five to seven years and that's okay I'm being wrong like there's a joke there's a joke you made once you don't know enough of school you what get paid the big bucks

like what 10 years later so I'm like what two years away from that three years yeah we make the big bucks a decade later yeah I'll stay in the game I'll do my best all right appreciate you Thanks for calling in. Tell me the one thing that you want me to help you with your business right now. All right. Talk to me, man. All right. So I have a school community where I help fishing guides grow their business. I have a question about cold outreach metrics. Sweet. You help fishing guides grow their business. Yeah. Dude, that is a niche. All right, let's rock this. All right. So, okay.

you help them with outreach or are you doing outreach? I'm doing outreach and I have questions about my metrics. Okay, go for it. So what are you doing outreach on? So I use Google to manually find 700 fishing guides phone numbers. And my money model is essentially to give away all the information for free as a decoy offer and then upsell them into a one-on-one coaching tier. Okay.

So I sent them a message asking if they want a free step-by-step. step guide to learn how to get more book. About 8% of them said, sure, send it over. Amazing. Then I send them a link to my about page, which converts at about 15% for that free decoy offer. And then I was able to get a couple people to pay for one-on-one coaching, which got me to about $1,000 a month.

But my goal is to get to $10 a month. So my question for you is, I'd be more focused on improving the metric since fishing guides is such a small niche. or I just need to be more pun intended. I need a couple quick stats that I want to get from you. So how much does the average fishing guide make? The average fishing guide makes probably about 30 to 50 grand a year in process. Oh, okay, got it.

So 30K to 50K. Okay. How many actual fishing guides are there in, I guess, I mean, shoot, is it mostly the U.S. that you work with? Yeah. There's, from what I can find, there's about 10,000. 10,000. Okay.

Okay, how much money can you help them make? I've already helped other people do it. I can usually get them to about 5K per month in revenue, about 3K month profit after about the first three months. But aren't they already doing that if they're making 30 to 50K profit starting? Well, I mean, they are already a fishing guide and then I'm coming in and helping them scale their business, so it's not from like literally zero revenue. So let me ask just differently. They're currently making $30,000 a year take home.

You can help them add another 30 to 50. So that's not correct or is that too much? A.O. Free A.O. Hello? Hello? I think he cut bait. I think I think the line snapped. All right. Is it working?

There we go. Reilding back in. Okay. So they're making $30,000. How much money do you help them make more than they're currently making? $3,000 a month? So more than they're currently making, I can usually add about an extra $2,000 on top of what they're. I guess the part I forgot to mention is I target underperforming fishing guides.

Man. I mean, you just got to get 10 people to pay you like 500 bucks, a thousand bucks a month, right? That's what you want? Yeah, I pick it. Yeah, I'll say this. Don't tell yourself that's high ticket, all right, because it's not. It's not high ticket. It's media-ish.

But the point is this. So there's 10,000. If your goal is to get to $100,000 a year or $10,000 a month, you can absolutely do it within this vehicle. So you found 700 of them. You think there's 10,000 of these fishing guides? Yeah, I've already reached out to 700. I still have a fresh list with like 900 people who I haven't reached out to yet.

How many times you're reaching out? To that list of 700, I hit them up probably including follow-ups, probably three or four different times. It's pretty much, I've milked them for about all their worth now. Well, you mean you've done three or four reachouts in total to the list? Yeah. Each of those reach-outs was like a multi-step attempt. Yes. Okay.

So I'll tell you what I don't like. I'll tell you what I do like. I do think that the goal of getting to $10,000 a month in this niche is super doable. I don't think you should reach out to the people who are. underperforming, I think you should probably reach out to people who are performing well and maybe learn from them so that you can provide more value. So it's like you have a small amount of people who don't make a lot of money and you add a kind you add a little bit of money to their business, right? So if we can like, I would want one of these three things to change. It's like I would like

to have a lot of people that I get a little bit of value. I would like to have a small amount of people that I get a lot of value to. Right now you're kind of like, and also all those people don't have money to start with. So it's like we have three things kind of working against us. we have to fix one of these. So you can't fix there being more fishing guides. You can't do that. So you really just stuck with, I can target people who have more money or I can make them more money. Which of them is more feasible for you? My big piece of proof that I have, which is I guess it might be a limiting belief on why I don't want to swing out of my weight class. But I am a fishing guide. I've been running my own fishing charter business for like the last five years.

And I'm at about $5,000 a month in profit. So it feels a little. It feels a little. little weird to go too far above what I've actually done. I don't want to tell you to stop doing the business you're doing. I do think that, like, is there, like, what stops you from doing going from five to, like, 20? In my fishing charter business, you know? It's going to sound like a bad answer, I know, but I have all the work that I want to be able to handle that business. Like, I'm going to get burned out if I push myself harder.

So I've got a wild idea. What if? I mean, you know how to generally. rate demand, right? Because I'm guessing that's how you got this business. What if you charged more? It would have to be pretty significantly more. Yeah, like a double. My first fear would be that it would be product ties. Like people would compare prices because there's a lot of other fishing guides around in my area too. Yeah. So what's the first chapter in offers? Do you know? I've read it about three times. I should know, but I don't know. I'll tell you. The first chapter is you're selling a commodity.

And so when you sell a commodity, you compute on price. When you sell a grant-sum offer, you compute on value. And so to become separate from everybody else in your space, which I think is worth you learning, because if you're going to help these guys with their businesses, they're all commoditized as well. So you have to help them out of this commoditized struggle. Otherwise, they're like fundamentally, you're just going to help them get to a business that you're currently burned out on.

That doesn't feel good, right? So I kind of want you to fix your business, which I think if you do, you will. will make more money in the short term and long term. Okay. Which is not the answer that you expected. Like the simple answer for your current thing, like in terms of degrees of advice, the easiest thing to do would be like, go find more leads, reach out to more of them and make sure that you're keeping the people you got. You can charge a thousand bucks a month. Okay, fine. That's like the short term advice. But the kind of like medium to long term advice is we have to figure out a way for you to either target ones that make more money or help the ones that come in to make more money. The only way

to do that long term is to actually make more money with your own thing or help the people that you already have far surpass your existing numbers. Can they pass your numbers? Could you help them if they wanted to? Could they pass my revenue numbers you mean? Yeah, or take home, yeah. Oh, yeah, for sure. Okay, well then why don't you go help people do that and then you'll be able to charge more? I see. Okay, so help fishing guides surpassed my number. I hope they all beat you. Yeah. And if you don't want to go back into the fishing business, fine.

You can experiment with the customers you have with a new, a better offer. But you have to be able to sell around a commoditized pricing structure. Otherwise, so let me say this differently because I think, like I want this to really hit for you. And obviously I'm talking to a zillion of the people who are listening in. If you sell a commodity, you will be priced at the point of burnout. The marketplace is ruthlessly efficient at getting people to just make. enough to survive and not make enough to thrive because that's a place where people will stay and provide a commoditized good. So you have to break out of that. Otherwise, the market will

force you. Capitalism is very efficient. The market will force you to give as much as you can for as little as possible until eventually you can't give any more for any less. You remember that chapter in the book. And there's nothing left. You are in that boat right now. Man, in that boat. I'm not even trying on that one. So we have to decommodial. the offering that either you or the fishing guides are teaching are making so that they can charge twice as much, three times as much. What else can a fishing guide that other people don't provide to make the whole experience better? Can we bundle multiple things in? Can we sell multiple sessions? Can we bring food on there? Can we grill the fish with them and bring a chef so they get the full,

like I grilled it on the side of the boat, threw some lemon on? I've never had fish better in my life because we're right out of the water, right? Like can we create an experience around this that's more than just like, I'll take you out and you'll catch a fish or you won't. Oh, yeah, there's definitely ways to add a lot of extras on. Awesome. And people who buy fishing typically, many of them have a lot of money. So, like, give them the opportunity to spend it with you. Yeah, that totally makes sense.

And it's kind of a double whammy because it helps with the main fishing charter business and with the school community to be able to show other people how I did it. So, yeah, it's perfect. Let's do that. Do you feel better? Yeah. So this solves the core issue. Go fix your business, make a grand slam offer, charge significantly more so that you can make more, so that you have the confidence to then show the guys that you help make way more. If they make way more, guess what you get to do? Charge more. And you'll be able to start attracting the people who aren't just, you know, bottom scrapers. They're the ones who actually doing okay but want to do great. Those are the ones you pay big dollars. People who are on their last line, They don't have much. I'm like, Jesus.

I'm unstoppable today. Does that make sense? Yeah, I get it. All right. Rock and roll. Appreciate you, man. Yeah, thank. All right, have a good one.