The Game with Alex Hormozi - I Helped 6 Business Owners Make More Money | Ep 601

Episode Date: October 17, 2023

"The amount of work that's required to make something exceptional precludes you from doing multiple things.” Today, join Alex as he gives advice from business owners on importance of character and time in achieving success, finding the best method for generating leads, running searches on different platforms and comparing the response rates to determine the most effective method, and more.Welcome to The Game w/Alex Hormozi, hosted by entrepreneur, founder, investor, author, public speaker, and content creator Alex Hormozi. On this podcast you’ll hear how to get more customers, make more profit per customer, how to keep them longer, and the many failures and lessons Alex has learned on his path from $100M to $1B in net worth.Timestamps:(1:45) - Lead generation strategies.(4:11) - Cutting toxic friendships.(8:41) - Resetting boundaries with family.(9:56) - Offering free value to pay offers.(11:53) - Trust and increasing conversion rates.(14:50) - Finding Your Niche(18:12) - Semi private model.(22:07) - Doing six-week transformations.(25:26) - Brand deals and the crypto space.(31:05) - Goals and relationship compatibility.(32:30) - Settling for a $45,000 employee.(34:54) - Scaling and attracting talent.(38:25) - Getting the commission breath.(40:55) - Moving through the org.Follow Alex Hormozi’s Socials:LinkedIn | Instagram | Facebook | YouTube | Twitter | Acquisition

The difference seeing a million and 100 million is character. You're seeing 100 million and a billion, in my opinion. We'll see if it works is time. And so once you have the base skills, then it really becomes about who the person is. Welcome to the game where we talk about how to sell more stuff to more people in more ways and build businesses worth owning. I'm trying to build a billion dollar thing with Acquisition.com. I always wish Bezos, Musk, and Buffett had documented their journey. So I'm doing it for the rest of us.

Please share and enjoy. What's up, man? How's it going? Good, man. I have two questions, sort of both different topics, but the first one is more lead-related. Struggling to figure out which method is the best method to focus on, so I don't feel like I'm wasting my time doing something to try to get leads. Who are you going after?

The three main avatars would be like tech startups, B2B, B2C, SaaS, and then really any company that has like a custom software. So there's three ways you can get leads, right? One is you can manually assemble the leads lists. The second way is that you can buy leads from brokers. And the third way is that you can scrape leads using software. I usually will start with scraping if I can because it tends to be the cheapest. And so I'll use like if you just Google tool for whatever, like, you're going to come up.

I'm going to what you're restraints. Yeah. Yeah. And then I'll take the top four or five of them and I'll run my search for avatars into each of them. And then I'll take a sample of like, let's say 100 or 500 leads of each, work all of them, see which ones I get the highest response rate. then I'll double down on whatever platform got me the highest throughput. You're saying which platform gets you the highest response rate that we were referring to?

Which lead source? Yeah, I mean, in terms of reaching out to the actual lead itself, I reach out on everything. That sort of ties into next thing. So one thing I've been thinking about is you know how you talk about to lead sort of with value, offer something essentially for free. So that's like a big thing where I'm just like not really sure how to even figure out what we could offer being that like, am I like stepping? Is this like stuff like, no, you're good.

This is like I go through this literal step-by-step process in the book of everything that you're saying. So it's like how to figure out what you're going to give the person for free, how to structure it, how to make like here's the script to get replies, all that stuff. So the good news is the book will solve your problem. But the best framework that I can use for coming up with things that people will reply to is give them something free that they would normally pay for. So rather than be like, I made this amazing thing.

But if it's the same free, valuable thing that everyone else gives, then how, you know, how good is it? you have to compete by being significantly better. But if you just do something that normally other people charge for, even on a micro level, and they can ascribe real value to that, people will respond to you. And then you're operating on a,

you're in a way better frame and then you can have a much better conversation. The other thing was more like on a personal side. So if we could just sort of step back when you were sort of going through that, you know, volatility of you had like success, then big failures and come back up, in terms of how you like structured your life if you did it all. so that you put yourself in the best position to where you're cutting certain people out.

Maybe you're bringing certain people or that might be even resources for skill development or whatever in. How do you go about doing that so that you're not doing things that don't really help you move forward and grow long-term big picture? Yeah. So it's a really good question because the number one way to change your behavior is to change your environment. So if you change the conditions, you'll behave differently. right? Like if there's a red light, you act differently than a green light. And so that's a micro example of how we act like in Baltimore. When I live there, I act differently than when I moved because I had a, I've had a clean slate. Like I didn't have to talk to old friends that would treat me a certain way that then I would

respond to in the way that I didn't want to. Right. And so first thing from a people perspective, like I think a lot can be gained from literally just moving 30 minutes away. Like even if you, like I can't move out of, you know, I'm not going to move from Baltimore to California. Okay, that's fine. Just move to the other side of town. Just get, just. Just get. Just. just get out of the micro environment. The second thing that'll then lead to is the people that you will frequent will change, right? And I think that you'll have to get accustomed or be okay with the fact that you will lose a lot of friends. And that's not a bad thing.

Because the thing is just like if all you have in common continues to shrink and shrink and shrink and the only thing you have left to talk about is the past, remember the good old times? Remember that time we got so drunk at rippies? You know what I mean? Like whatever. Then like they're not trying to help you create the future that you were ultimately looking for. and it just like I will say that as I've gotten, you know, further along in that path, my time to cutting people has just shrank. Because if I figure if I'm going to cut this person eventually, I might as well cut them now

and start enjoying the benefits of not having them in my life and having all this back. And it's like all those times, if I have somebody who just keeps inviting me to shit and then making me feel guilty or if I go out and they're like, why aren't you drinking or like, why aren't you like, oh, he's on another diet, you know, whatever. It's just like you're not helped. Like, just asking the question like, how do you think what you're saying is going to help me. And if there's like, well, I'm just giving you a hard time. It's like, yeah, understood. How is that going to help me? It's not. Okay. So like either change your behavior or I will change it

for you, meaning I will just not have you in my life. The third piece is that I remember there's this video. I had just opened my sixth location and I was looking to open seven through 10 and I had already mapped out where I was going to be opening them for my for my gyms. And I remember I did this Facebook live and I was like beat up. You know what I mean? Like I was tired. I was taking, I was doing 12 hours a day is a sale. So I was taking sales sales from eight to eight every day. And then I would still do the rest of my work before and after that and somehow trying to work out. During that period, I remember saying, what are you willing to give up? So I made this live. It was like, these are all the things I'm giving up now. So like, these are things that I used to do that I'm not going to be doing anymore.

So I was like, I'm not falling the Ravens anymore. So I was a Baltimore Ravens. I was like, I'm not watching football. I'm not looking at fantasy. I'm not going to build a team. I'm just, on Sundays, I need to work. Like, I can't give the three hours. I can't do it. So I gave up football. gave up Netflix. I was like that nighttime where like normally I like decompressed, I was like I don't have time for that right now. Like I got to process payments. I got processed payments. I got processed contracts. I got filed with leads and do reminders for the next day. And so it was changing where I was places wise, being okay with the fact that I was going to have a period of a little bit more solitude because as soon as you cut things, you create room, a greater vacuum, but new people will come in who are like in

this world. And I would recommend just connecting with people online because there's so many, there's some bigger communities of people who are trying to do the same thing online versus wherever you're at locally, right? And then the third is, it's just like, what are my behaviors? What are the things I'm going to give up in order, like, because you've got to make room. Like you only have 24 hours, right? So it's like, what are the things that aren't getting me where I want to go? And the thing is, if you just say I'm not going to do those, positive behaviors will fill the gap. I think for me, it comes to more maybe a family side of things. Or like those people, I have a different way of dealing with them, their family. But like, I

I don't know how to necessarily navigate that. So two things. First off, I have very extreme views on this. So like, just take that with a grain of salt that you will, right? If we zoom all the way out, like I didn't choose to be born. That was forced on me. And so, like, I don't feel like I owe anyone for that. Right.

Now, that being said, I believe in fair exchange or abundant exchange, meaning like, I'm going to make everybody in my life's life better for being there. But I want them to also make my life better, right? And so I think the first layer of this is approaching it with absolute candor, which is like what you would tell me being like, man, my dad, you know, he just treats me like him a kid. He always brings up these things like when I was 14 years old. And he keeps saying, oh, you know, Zev's got a short temper. You know, like my dad says that. He's like, you're such a short temper. Right. He always told me that. And so you have to reset. Like, you have to reset back.

Like, these are the rules of engagement. Like, if you want me in your life, this is what is required for me. Which is like, you cannot speak to me this way. Like if, you know, your big uncle grabs you by the neck and he's like, look at a little muggy, you know, whatever, something like, I'm not saying he's doing that, but I'm saying as an extreme example. Like, what would you do there? You're like, no.

And it creates, like, it creates a moment where they're like, oh, now they'll then probably try and shake it. I'd be like, dude, I was just kidding. It's like, it wasn't funny. I'd be like, it's just you and me and I'm not laughing. And it's like, whoa, that's a new tone, right? And so like, you have to reset boundaries, have to reset the rules of engagement.

And then the thing is, is that you have to enforce those, which means that at a certain point, you have to decide that I'm going to decrease my communication cadence. I'm going to decrease my proximity to you. I'm not going to be as accessible. When you text me, it might take me a couple of days to respond. When you say, hey, you got a minute, I might not have a minute.

Right? Like, you have to earn that. And like, the fact that you are family gives you more leeway, but not infinite. And so one of the unfortunate things about family is that we treat family worse than anyone else. because we think that we can't lose them. And so I reject that notion entirely.

I just don't, I believe in treating everyone the same, family and stranger. And then if I can benefit them awesome and if they can benefit me awesome. And then we both keep loving our relationship because we don't feel like we're owed anything. And so that's, that's bidirectional, though. Because that's the thing is if you're going to play this game, in my opinion, this is the way I play it, which is that you're like, listen, I don't owe you stuff. but it means I'm also not going to say you owe me anything. And like, we're starting there. That's how I approach those things. Thanks for taking my questions. Appreciate it.

You bet, Zeph. Appreciate you. Good luck, man. Alex, how is they going? Selina, what's going on? How do you strike the balance between offering free value to pay offers? Like, when is the perfect time to make that switch? So you give until they ask. It's simple as that. You give and you keep giving and you keep giving and you keep giving until eventually people are like, dude, what else do you have? Can I get this from you? Like, dude, you've helped me so much. Like, is there, and what happens is you'll start hearing what different people want from you. And then you'll start noticing the common thread. And then you can ask permission from your audience of the people that you are providing this value to and be like, hey, if I did something like this, would you guys be interested?

And then take a, take a poll. Very easy. Right. And if they say, lots of them say yes, then it's like, now you have permission from the audience to then say, cool, well, I'm going to go spend three months building this for. you and I'm going to get it to you guys. Just because you give things away for free does not mean that everything that you do is free. We give free stuff in order to get more people interested and earn more trust so that a longer time horizon we can convert more people into customers. A purchase decision is a prediction of future value. Right. Like I'm going to buy this thing because I believe that after I buy it, I'm going to get in excess of whatever I paid for it, right? And the best way to increase someone's conviction that they're going to get. value from you in the future is to provide value to them in the present. And so that's the,

that's the whole game. And so I'll give you, I'll give you a different example. So if I were to go up to 100 people and say, hey, buy my thing, right? I might get one person to buy it because I might have caught them on a good day and they're really struggling, whatever, right? If I go to the same 100 people and say, hey, can I solve one of your problems for free? More than one person will say yes. Maybe 20 people will say And then from those 20 people, when you crush it for them and then say, hey, by the way, I solve this first problem. You now have another problem. That's a better problem, but it's still a problem.

And I can solve that for you, too, in exchange for money, a way higher percentage of that 20 will now take you up on the offer. And then you get half of those 20 to buy your thing. And you go from one sale, talking to 100 people, to 10 sales. So you can 10x your conversion rate by just adding a level of trust prior to the ask. How do you come up with that idea and think about, okay, I'm going to give this for free. You have the idea. You have the idea.

Honestly, like, okay, I'm going to dive a level underneath is that you're not accustomed to the level of work that's required. Like, real talk. You're just not used to it. And that's okay. My level of output and my understanding of how much work capacity I have has continued to increase over time. I've put 200 hours into the presentation that I'm going to be giving on Saturday. most people don't put 200 hours into their product. It's just orders of magnitude in terms of difference.

And so if people saw how much time I put into the things, they wouldn't be surprised by the value. They'd be like, well, that makes sense. He spent 200 hours on. Actually, I'm a little embarrassed for the guy. He spent basically five weeks of work hours to make one, you know, 90-minute presentation. And so I think that if you were to think about, like, for you to actually spend legitimately, like working hours,

Spent 200 hours on making something really good. And that doesn't mean making it longer. It means making it better. And then give that away for free. And then what happens if it really is good, people will then share it with other people. And then you get double effect. You get more people to take you up on the free offer

and then their friends send you other people. There's so much more work that goes into it. I spent six hours a day for two years on this next book. I work from six to noon every day. And then I take my meetings. I did that every day for two years. And now I'm releasing the book, right? And I feel very confident that it's a good, it's a very good product, right?

And so, again, I think my level of work in terms of hours is probably greater than what you're doing. And I have a lot of stuff going on, right? But you just have to be able to block the time and say the first four hours of my day, every day for this month are making this thing. And I'm going to make it exceptional. And the thing is document you making it. show people how much work you're putting into it. And then when you do have it, they're like, wow, she really did this.

She didn't just whip up a PDF that took her a day. I used to think that a day of like, oh, this took me a whole day. A whole day in my mind was a long time. And the nice thing is that the really valuable fruit are right in front of everyone. It just has a very tall ladder. So you just have to climb a lot longer than other people will to go pick the fruit. But it's right in front of you. You just have to spend way more time making the thing exceptional.

which also means that all the other distractions that you're probably distracted on right now with these little side projects, this is me just guessing right now, right? You have to cut that because what you realize is the amount of work that's required to make something exceptional precludes you from doing multiple things. You can't do multiple things well. You can do one thing exceptionally well, and that means that you have to say no to everything else. Yeah. How do you find that exceptional thing then? It's not that you find it, you make it. The more you do, the better you get. And the more you pull the thread on any of the things that you're interested in, the deeper you'll go on it because you will get better at it by the very fact of how much volume you're putting into it. So whatever it is that you help people with,

the one that makes you the most money right now, ignore everything else, ignore the other opportunities, and say like, how do I make this even easier? Like think about the value equation. How do we make it faster for them? How do I make it less effort for them? How do I increase their perception of the likely that they're going to succeed? Which means that, you know what? I've been offering one product, but I really have three avatars. And so I need to just make this tiny tweak here so that this person and this person and this person will be successful.

Now, if I was going to lean in even more, I would say just pick one of the three and then exclude the other ones. Just master a puddle. Just be queen of a puddle. And then you can be queen of a pond and then queen of a lake and then queen of a bay and then queen of an ocean, right?

But you got to start with the puddle because you're like half in half out between different ones. Figuring out what's my thing that I'm really, really good at and like spend a lot of time on and perfecting that. Don't even think the thing that you're really good at because you might not be that good at anything right now. And I'm not saying that's not a rat.

I'm just saying like that's not a dig. I'm saying do the one that you forget about time while you're doing it. And then you will become excellent because you'll be able to actually keep working. Like you have to solve for what is the thing that I can work the most like this amount of work is required to get where you want to go, right? To be exceptional. And so then what you solve for is how can I find something that I don't mind doing this much work of? But this much work is required no matter what.

And if you do this much work, whether you're learning to be the best plumber or the best architect or the best whatever weight loss coach, that, like, if you can do that and forget about time, you'll win. When I started on YouTube, I told the guy that was editing my thing. I said, listen, I'll do three videos a week for 10 years. I was like, and then we'll measure whether it worked or not. He's like, I've literally never had anyone say that. So, like, wait now, it's just like you need a perspective shift. Thank you so much for the opportunity. And thank you so much for the answer.

Joe, what's up, man? How are we doing, Alex? Nice to meet you. Nice to meet you, too. Awesome. My name's Joe. I'm in the gym space. I'm in the Brick and Water Gym space.

The space you move. I know some stuff about it. You notice this stuff about it. And I'm one of those guys who read gym launch a couple years too late. I'm a little older. So I made all the same. saying all the mistakes you talked about. When I read the book, I felt like I read the book, I felt like I was reading deja vu.

I was like, oh, my God, all these things happened to me. So my question to you is, me and my business partner, Dan, are launching a series of semi-private personal training studios. We're still in that space, and we're launching one shortly. And so using the $100 million leads book that's coming out and some of the stuff from gym launch and $100 million offers, what would you do to do to launch? launch a gym, our plan every six months for the next few years, uh, you know, until we get a number that we're happy with and we'll keep doing.

My, my preference, my preferred model is one of two. Right now, you're already doing one of them. So I won't even get to the other one. But I love the semi-private model. Um, I love that like $300, $400 a month price point, um, two to three times a week. Um, I like going after avatars that have a little bit more money specifically, uh, because for them, They're not going to not pay during the holidays. You know what I mean? Like for them, they're not going to be like, you know,

breaking the bank over $300. And the nice thing, and I think this is, this is, I got this from Rick, Rick Mayo of Alloy. That model allows you to get to about $500,000 a year with, you know, 1,600 square feet, 1,400 square feet, like super small footprint. And a single manager who's got maybe 10, 20% profit share,

maybe like 40, 50K base and two helpers. Right? So it's a very, simple lean model, one on six, one on eight, depending on how you want to do it. And all you have to do is get to 120-ish at the location. And it's usually 50% margin. I mean, I have over time simplified and simplified the model so that there's just so little operational complexity so that you can scale. And because of, are you familiar with Dunbar's number? Yeah. So the reason I like this model is that most microjim's cap at 120 to 150,

and it's because the system's required to purposely manufacture human connection become significantly more complex as you cross that barrier, right? And so rather than create this very, very complex machine to make it run at 600 service-based members, I'd rather just have a model that runs very profitably at 120 to 150 members.

And so lead gen perspective, Number one is that I would do a three-month pre-launch. Number two is that I would disproportionately spend on the launch. So I would put like 30 grand into the pre-sales, and I would open it at full capacity. The best gym franchises know how to pre-sell so that they are in the black in the first month. And like every time I opened a new location, like it was the first location was the one that I didn't learn. I learned the lesson on my first one because I thought I was trying to get it open as fast as possible so I could make money. but with everyone after that, I tried to do pre-sales as long as possible so I could make all this money and not have to pay any expenses.

Real quick, guys, if you can think about how you found this podcast, somebody probably tweeted it, told you about it, shared it on Instagram or something like that. The only way this grows is through word of mouth. And so I don't run ads. I don't do sponsorships. I don't sell anything. My only ask is that you continue to pay it forward to whoever showed you or however you found out about this podcast that you do the exact same thing. So if it was a review, if it was a post, if you do that, it would mean the world to me. me and you'll throw some good karma out there for another entrepreneur. And so that way you can also focus too because you can just sell for three months, do nothing but work leads and close contracts. And then after that, I'm sure what's your turn right now for semis? Right now,

only about 5%. Okay. I mean, I would shoot for three. You know what I mean? But 5's okay. You know, if you've got, let's just say five, right? And you've got 120 members. It's six members a month you got to replace. Like, it's just like, it's so easy to replace that. And just expect, like, if you have, and what's your price point monthly? About 400. Okay. So 400.

So that's an 8KLTV, right? In terms of revenue, not profit. But like, 8KLTV, like, you should be able to spend 500 bucks to a car customer and not even sweat on it. And so, like, if you pay up to $100 a lead local so that you can close 20% of those into contracts, I'm not saying those are good numbers. I'm saying those are exaggeratedly bad numbers. you still be fine, right? Because even if you had to close six customers of the month,

it's three grand a month in ads just to maintain, it's nothing. Now, when Jim wants you talk about, you know, doing your six-week transformation, do you still recommend that as the primary giveaway? Because that's all the best time. The rapper can change. You know what I mean? Like, I always call it's just wrapping paper on the present,

but like we're still doing nutrition. We're still doing a workout. So like whether I do, you know, six week, 42 days, 21 days, 21 days, 28 days, you know, belly fat blast, metal blog reset, like, you know, slim by Halloween, you know, slim by Halloween, you know, slim for Santa, you know, big booty boot camp, free six week challenge, 42 day detox, like I've fucking done them all. Like at the end of the day, like, all of those are rappers that you rotate locally just so that your ad is not fatigue, but you want to always push it into the same sales process so that the ops don't change. So it's like the ad will change.

And then you get on the phone, you're like, hey, what made you sign up for? Insert name or promotion. They're going to be like, well, I'm kind of over. overweight and you're like, great, what have you done so far? Right? And you start going through it. So my second question is, you know, with a business partner who, you know, we have kind of like a different person who worked really great together, 17 years of a great partnership. How do we, how do you manage or what would you recommend? My, my preferred mode is take risk, scale fast, like we have momentum. We're maxed out in both our other gyms. We have a great local reputation and recognition.

And I'm like, let's do, you know, let's do 10 of these in the next like three years. And he's like, lose his mind over it. Like he's more of a prove it guy. In your experience, you know, what's better? You know, speed or prove it. You're both right. A good partnership has a yes man and a no man. Right.

And so like in my dynamic with Layla, it's like, I'm yes, she's no. Right. And that's basically how. everything gets managed. If we're up to me, we jokes, like we would have 100 businesses. If we're up to her, we'd have none. He says no, because he's knowing so much work it is. Right. Like if you're the promoter and the CEO, whatever you want to call it, then there's usually more like strategic works. There's leadership stuff. But in terms of like day to day, they usually bear the brunt of the work. And so it costs more to them. It's more painful. And so I'll give you my advice from what I would do having now

worked with an implementer for a long time is I say, what would you need to see? for us to be for you to feel comfortable with us doing that and then she'll say here's the checklist if you do these things and you make sure these are the things that are that are done we can do the next one and then that way we have an agreement and it's like and to be clear if we do the same checklist at location three you feel good again like yeah I'm good again if we have these things and said and then you're and then you're aligned and then it's like cool let's just keep the party going that's perfect yeah that's great that's great advice thank you so much I'm really excited and and grateful everything you've given to have to the community of strength for sure. Appreciate it, man. Thanks,

Joe. Nicole. What's up? I don't know if you remember me. We met at Eric's mastermind. So since then, I started a podcast doing pretty well. I made most of my money as a creator doing brand deals. So, for example, I was big in the crypto space. The second I started my podcast, I had like a six-figure deal, which coming to an end, I don't think it's going to to be renewed. Everyone that I, everyone that I talk to is like, Nicole, you've grown on all these social pages, not just my personal, but like, you know, other brands that where I'm like curating other people's content. And everyone's like, it's a no fucking brainer, do a newsletter. I talk to Sahil Bloom, for example, you know, to sell lads and his, and that's his model.

But, you know, then I also heard you say recently that, like, subscribers and followers don't really mean anything like they're a vanity metric and you're like the game is now click retain reward what exactly does that look like because i like it's like currently i have nothing to sell you up you're good so it's it's it's two separate applications so from the growth perspective like growing the audience getting more people to see your stuff like that in that world subscribers i mean TikTok has changed the game in terms of how all the algorithms work right like right now if you have 10 million subscribers on YouTube, if your next video sucks, it's not going to give views, period.

Yeah, it works. Same thing with Instagram. You see people with 10 million accounts, make a post, and it's got 300 likes on it, right? It's because on the flip side, though, it's good for new creators because you can come on with zero followers, make a banging video and get 10 million views. Right.

And I actually think it's a good thing for everyone, because it equalizes the playing field. It makes content king, like the quality of what you put out, which I'm always down to compete on that. And so that's from the growth perspective. From building out a newsletter, like one is top of funnel, the newsletter, subscribers, I mean that like those are customers. You know what I mean?

And so I'm in no way against having, you know, a newsletter of any sort that provides values, especially to a niche audience because a buddy of mine has a ton of data on subscriber stuff. And like the ones that do the best in terms of LTV and whatnot are typically hyper-nitch and high value, so usually a little bit higher price point. But very specific to, like, because they're so niche, they can provide an extent, like a lot of value to a person versus being like super wide.

It's very hard to provide tremendous value to everyone, right? It's kind of like Elon Musk's thing of like you can either provide a little bit of value to a lot of people or a lot of value to a few people. And so I think if you feel like you're better at a specific niche, I think it makes sense for you to go top of funnel is just get really good at making content and then that just converts into your subscriber network. So your newsletter. And then you sell ads to the newsletter if you want to from an endorsement perspective. You can also have your own products if you want to. You just become a media business at that point, which is fine.

I mean, I'm a big fan of media business. Okay. That's really helpful. The other question that I had, your dynamic is so different than what we've seen in like traditional relationships, yet it's still work and you guys kill it. So what's that dynamic? like and how is it different and why do you feel like you guys thrive? We set out to solve a different problem with our relationship. And so I think that the premise that most people come into the relationship with is different than how Layla and I approach the relationship. And I think that's where, I think fundamentally, like, you know, like when you're solving

a business problem, I'm sure you've probably asked this. It's like, what problem are we solving? Right. It's like the first question you ask is like, what problem are we solving? And so most people don't even, A, ask that. But B, if they do ask that, they're, you know, there. usually trying to solve a different thing. They're like, I want to have lots of romance and this big Hollywood love, which from everything that I know is something that is short-lived and then disappears,

and then you're left with someone that you were looking at. And you're like, well, shit, what do we have in common? Right. And so Layla and I had both rode that, that roller coaster multiple times before. And we both were at a point where we're like, you know what? And mind you, I was very, you know, dejected at the time when I met her. I was like, listen, I'm not trying to do anything. I'm trying to build this. This is what I'm doing. And the first 30 dates we had were 30 days in a row, where after our first date, which we went to frozen yogurt, the next date was not a date. I was like, I'm going to be working from nine until I go to sleep. So if you want to work with me, you can. And so that was what we did every single day, is that I was like, I'm going to be working.

If you've got work, we can work together. And so it ended up just being somebody that I enjoyed spending a lot a time with. And the romance stuff, honestly, I feel like didn't really like kick in until like two and a half years into our marriage. And I think that our relationship was based on that. Like respect was first. And then we learned the love part. It's very hard to learn respect. Being hot or being physically attracted to somebody, I feel like it's the ticket of entry. It's not like I see a lot of successful guys go find the Instagram model. I meet said Instagram model. And I'm like, how do you live like this? like I would kill myself if I had to talk to this person every day. Right? And they're like, oh, the secret is I don't talk to them. I'm like, that sounds

horrible. Right. And so again, it's like they were solving a different problem. And so for me, my goal has always been number one, like where I want to go, right? And having somebody who wants to go that way with you, because I was engaged prior to Layla, right? Wonderful girl. But we ultimately ended up deciding to cut it off because we simply had different goals for our lives. She was like, I want to do this. And I was like, I don't want to do that. And it was like, well, what are you going to do? And we're like, maybe you're a great person and I'm a great person. We're just not necessarily like meant to be. And that's okay. Because I think on some level, like we say these things like non-negotiables, but then we negotiate. And so it's like either

it's a non-negotiable or it is negotiable. And for me, it's like where I want to go is non-negotiable. So it's like I have these goals, which is where I want to go, my values, which is how I want to get there. And then lifestyle, which are what are my interests? Right. And if I can find somebody wants to go the same place the same way and have and likes doing the day to day the same way as me, then I'm good. Like the fact that Layla was into fitness was like, great, I go to the gym too. You go to the gym. Like it's not going to be weird. You're not going to be like, oh, I don't want to, you know, like, she's in the same mindset of that. Right. If I'm like, hey, I want to go invest in this workshop or something. She's not going to be like, I can't

believe we're spending $10,000 on this. It's like that person who say that is not my partner. And I think in terms of me being the guy telling you what like the number one thing that attracted me about Layla was that Layla never tried to change me. If you want to do big things, then whoever is going to come along with you has to be equally big as a person. And I think a lot of people settle for a $45,000 employee. I mean, and you can even if someone, in the reverse, if I were you and someone's like, man, I'm looking for a wife. And I'd be like, what are you looking for out of the wife? Like real talk. Like not politically correct.

like, what are you actually looking for? And so then if they're like, man, I would love it, someone cooked and cooked and cleaned and fed me and washed my clothes and ironed and blah, blah, blah, blah. You're like, okay, question, if I paid someone $45,000 a year to do that professionally, then what would our relationship pay? Because that's an expense.

You know what I mean? Like, we can just write the check and all those things are solved. So like, now what? Andy, what's up, man? What is up, Mr. Alex Hermose? Okay, so a question I have for you. I've heard you talk a lot about investing in the S&P me.

And so the S&P index, like the me 500, right? What would you say with those skill acquisitions, like which skills and in what order would you suggest maybe a person to go through? Because that kind of ties into your skill stacking is a methodical way that you think this naturally ascends to the next one. I would think about it from the order of how you would actually make money. So it's like, well, I have to have something to sell, right? So you have to have some sort of base skill that you could sell if you're going to get into

services or have some sort of base product. right once you know how to do that so like if you're getting into e-commerce you have to build a store talk to manufacturers make the thing that you're going to sell step one on the services side it'd be like what's the key skill that i'm going to acquire to show people how to do it and you can acquire that skill by like working a job buying a certification going through a course going to a workshop like i learned i learned how to run facebook guides at a workshop you know what i mean it cost me three grand at the other workshop and you know how to run facebook ads and so and that three thousand dollars has made me many more than $3,000 over the rest of my career. So point being, first thing you start

with the thing, right? The second thing you're to do is that you have to focus on promotion. So it's going to be advertising. And if you think about this is the order I did the books, right? Offers is what answers the question, what do I sell? And leads answers the question, who do I sell it to? Right? So like, once you have the thing, then you've got to go sell the thing and let people know about it. And you have to advertise. And so that is, that would be the second big skill stack. The third one would be conversion, which is like kind of persuasion, so sales. And there's different ways you can do it. So like you could learn how to build, you know, shopping pages and e-commerce that convert.

You could take phone sales. You can learn how to pitch and make Vs sales, all of those things. And then finally, if you want to like learn, the next piece would be leadership and operations because then you're going to have to hire people to help you out. With the caliber of people you work with and the different levels that they're at, has there been anything that you would say maybe is the common one or two missing principles that most business owners are not doing? or if it may be questions that they're not quite asking it.

You see like sometimes if you're only going to do like the one or two things, not that they're not all in. What are they? Yeah. So I just did a tweet the other day, but like the difference between, you know, a thousand and a million is skills, right?

The difference in a million and a hundred million is character. You're seeing a hundred million and a billion, in my opinion, we'll see if it works, is time. And so once you have the base skills, then it's really becomes about who the person is. And so as you scale up,

up, the speed of scaling often correlates with the speed of talent recruitment. Because if you are a shitty person or a shitty boss or a bad leader or can't have cast a vision or can't explain why this is going to benefit a lot of people, not just inside the business, but also outside the business, then you're not going to get the best people. And if you don't have the best people, you have to work overtime. And then you never really are able to pull yourself out of the business. And so you can measure the size and the scalability of the company by the talent that they can attract. Like there's a reason that Google and meta and Goldman Sachs and all of these ones pool from all the Harvard, you know, all the Ivy League schools and all that stuff. And, you know, we make fun of those people, but they also make all of the money. And so it's because they go, they have a brand and they have a huge pipeline of training that they train people on. And people also know that when they go to that brand, Goldman Sachs, McKinsey, whatever, that they're going to be able to go and do whatever they want afterwards. And so like, what happens is you realize that there's a two-sided funnel. Right. So on one side, you have to learn how to attract customers.

But on the other side, you have to learn how to attract talent. Because if you just only know how to attract customers, that everything always breaks and you can never get over the hump and you can never scale. Brilliant. Brilliant. Dude, man. Well, man, thank you for reaching back and helping all of us go forward and taking the shortcut. How would you approach creating strategies to generate leads and cultivate enduring customer relationships in this rapidly evolving enterprise B2B,

landscape, right? When I say enterprise, let me clarify, I'm speaking to Fortune 500, global 2000 type organizations. I'll tell you two very different things. On one hand, I've got a buddy who sells only to Fortune 100. And he was telling me that one of their most profitable strategies was hiring people from the Fortune 100 in the departments that they're trying to get on board. And then they hire them and they already have all the sway, all the influence, all the know all the know how and then they can bring that account with them and then the majority of their revenue actually just comes from cross-selling all the different uh markets that those people are in right so it's like okay i had to start with you know google southwest whatever right and then i've

then i'm moving on to google mexico google latam or whatever right um and so those are the two biggest areas of expansion from that perspective um in terms of the legion like i don't think the legion really changes very much. I think more or less it's just how quickly can I involve as many stakeholders as possible and make sure that my pitch is oriented to them looking good and them having no risk in terms of their job. It's like, here's my path to you getting promoted in a raise and here's, there's no downside. Like, it's all about them. You know what I mean? But I think, I think part of it is like, and I'm assuming you're a leader in the company. I think a lot of it is really getting the commission breath out of the sales guys. Um,

And oh, this is like I'm getting into tactics, but is, you know, I love the term bam fam, right? Book a meeting from a meeting, which is that we never have anyone falling through the cracks. Like we always know what we're doing to move the ball forward. And I think some guys get tired or they, I don't want to say lazy, but like they get tired. And they're like, yeah, I'm waiting for a response from that. It's like, well, when are you meeting with them? It's like, well, I'm waiting for the response. It's like if you're not able to push the ball forward from one meeting to the next, like that, in my opinion is a loss.

Like, that's like a miss sale. Maybe you could save it, but you can dramatically decrease the pipeline. Because even setting the frame with the enterprise sale of, listen, normal enterprise sales take 12 months, 18 months, six months, depending on the thing that you're selling. If you explain to the prospect, you're like, listen, it actually doesn't take 12 months. It takes 48 hours, hours of work, not time. So if we have 48 one-hour meetings to get this done, we can just take that and we can stretch it over two years or we can do it in three months. It's really up to you.

And I think even just setting that breaks a little bit of the like, this feels fast kind of language that a lot of like more corporate people will use. And then making sure that the bean counters who are approving budget like, hey, I'm just being wrong. that their asses are covered and that they can look good. Yeah, for sure, no. It's all good feedback, my friend. So just a quick follow-up question, then I'll let you go regarding lead gen specific. You know, the companies we can compete against, you're very familiar with, McKinsey, Boston, etc. Right.

Seems like a lot of lead gen is based on content, specifically gated content. And, you know, part of your value equation that I really like is, you know, value on the front end, which is kind of difficult at the enterprise level. Any thoughts there moving forward? Do you see that, you know, kind of staying the same, maintaining that? I think that's 100%. Yeah. I mean, I think it's the same reason McKinsey, for example, puts out all those white papers and Goldman Sachs put all their industry analysis out, right? And you opt in and you get it, and then they'll follow up with you. And I think, I mean, in my opinion, this may be an oversimplication, but I'm a simple guy. But like, I'll,

I'll get the name from anywhere in the org that that downloads the thing that's valuable for them. and then that's where the scripting comes in of the judo of like, hey, you got this thing. What do you get in this thing for? Well, we're working on this initiative or whatever. It's like, well, like, what's, you know, you get into sale. Like, you get into sales. Like, what's the objective?

What are you trying to do? Cool. Well, who else is involved? And then you start moving your way through the org. So I want to pull the thread from wherever I can. I'm sorry, get the thread and then just start pulling my way. No, that's great stuff, man. I really appreciate it.

Looking forward to the new release on Saturday, man. Thanks, brother. Appreciate your time.