The Game with Alex Hormozi - If You're in Your 20s or 30s, Here's How to Win (at Anything) | Ep 909

Episode Date: November 11, 2025

Welcome to The Game w/Alex Hormozi, hosted by entrepreneur, founder, investor, author, public speaker, and content creator Alex Hormozi. On this podcast, you’ll hear how to get more customers, make more profit per customer, how to keep them longer, and the many failures and lessons Alex has learned and will learn on his path from $100M to $1B in net worth.Wanna scale your business? ⁠⁠Click here.⁠⁠Follow Alex Hormozi’s Socials:⁠⁠LinkedIn ⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠Facebook⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠YouTube ⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠Twitter⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠Acquisition ⁠

I have used one strategies to win repeatedly across 13 years in business and also outside of business. And it's one of the biggest reasons that we had a $105 million launch for $100,000 money, miles in 72 hours for my latest book. And I'm going to explain why it's the highest risk-adjusted return move that you can make to win more in business or just win more in life. And so if you're not sure what to do right now within your specific business, no matter what industry or size business you're in or whatever goal you're pursuing, this will help. I talk about more, better, new, a lot, but I want to dive into the one that is near and dear to my heart, the one that has made me the man that I am, which is more.

And I want to talk about that because the fundamental question that every single business owner needs to answer, and even every person pursuing any skill or endeavor needs to answer is, why can't I do more? And for most people, doing more is the answer. And it's far more common that it is more. What's very sneaky about more is that you get to a point and then you say, there's no way I can do more. And at that point is where the big unlocks in volume really occur. Napoleon had this really a great quote back of the day, and maybe it's misattributed to him, but he said, quantity has a quality unto itself. Meaning like, if you do so much volume, you do so much work, and in the military sense,

if you just have so many people, at some point, it almost takes on its own quality of the amount of work, the amount of people, the amount of volume that you're putting into something, whatever it is that you want to break through. So big picture. I wanted to give you a couple cool little anecdotes to reinforce this. Some of you guys know about Sharon. He was on the live with me. He's our president at ACQ.

I don't tell you two of your stories about Sharon. I'll tell you the moment where like we went from being friends to me being like, man, I really want him to be, you know, president of acquisition.com. So he was talking to how he was growing real. And so real was a $200 million per year business. And he had grown it from $200 million to $1.2 billion in less than three years, like 30 months. And I want to put that there as a moment for you guys to think about that.

How insane that is. 200 million to $1.2 billion. Less than three years. How does he do it? We're having dinner. And he says, I just did 260 events in the last 365 days. And I was like, what do you mean? And he was like, I flew around and I did every single real estate event.

I spoke on every single stage. And that's how I generated, you know, more demand for our platform for realtors. And when he said that to me at dinner, I was like, this guy, he gets it. Now, we've been friends for years. But seeing him so tactically involved in the business and being like, that was the thing that took a $200 million business to $1.2 million, just sheer volume. Now, most people might hear that and think, well, yeah, I speak on stages one time a month. And, you know, I mean, I'm on stages all the time.

It's like, no, no, you're not on stages all the time. You have no idea what being on stages all the time actually mean. Most business owners wildly underestimate the amount of volume, one that is required and two, that they are capable of. Your capability is always higher than what is required. But the thing is, is that you might not know it yet. And so I've had so many times in my life that has become my de facto operating principle. And so I want to read you this.

This is from my internal sales handbook that I have for my sales team. This is the culture of acquisition.com. Like we ask how can we do more? Many people say they want to be in the top 1%, or 0.1%, or even 0.01%. But saying that has zero bearing on whether it happens. Achievement comes from actions, not aspirations. So let's get real. To be the top 1%, you need to enter a room of 100 people and leave number 1.

To be the top 0.1%, you need to enter room of 1,000 people, like a local high school, and leave number 1. To be the top 0.01%, you need to enter an arena of 10,000 people and leave number 1. Think about it, a stadium. And in a battle to the death in that stadium, you have to come out on top. You beat everyone. Not almost everyone, everyone. And so if you have the goal to be in the top 0.01%,

do you think that you can live a normal life? Do you think that you can keep the same friends? Do you think that you can keep the same hobbies? Do you think you can stay up late and sleep in on weekends? Do you think that you don't have to sacrifice what average people care about? Do you think that they will support you when you start to pass them? Do you think anyone will think this is healthy, balanced, or logical? No.

And they're right. But it doesn't matter. When you want to be the 0.01%, there's no greater waste of time than explaining stuff to people who actively don't support you. It's normal for people to not understand why you do what you do. I say this because you cannot make yourself exceptional and live a normal life. To make yourself exceptional, you must live an exceptional life. And an exceptional life does not always mean better.

It just means that it's so different that most people will reject it. And when that happens, you must reject them as well. Oil and water do not mix. That is what it really means to be exceptional. You must become the exception. So I routinely get asked the secret to success. And it just comes down to this. Number one, get better.

Number two, never stop. If you do only those two things, you will win on a long enough time horizon. The problem is people convince themselves they no longer want something once they see the experience of how hard it really is. So I want to set this expectation for you as you head off to practice scripts, mark your calendar, and set your alarms. The work begins when your motivation ends. Just win. That's from our internal handbook that we have at ACQ for our sales guys. And I want to read that to you because I want to frame what I'm talking about today.

It seems like a very simple thing, just saying just do more. But like, it's almost become an art form and something that I have like a deep passion about, which is very odd to say. But Moore actually has the highest risk adjust to return move that you can possibly make within the business. The reason Moore has the highest risk adjuster return for a business or for you is that it's so hard to get something to work, right? Many of you guys have tried anything.

You've been a marketing channel, a new sales script, a new offer. You try a bunch of things. And then finally something works. The likelihood that you changing that thing and that next thing working, is that you're changing. it's actually statistically very low. Think about how many different things you had to try before something actually worked. And so the idea is, okay, I have these limited resources.

I can allocate them to take a risk and roll the dice, or I have this thing that I know works, and I need to jam more into that machine, which is why the highest risk is just a return move. Now, one of the other misconceptions that I think is that there's a huge preponderance of people who talk about optimization, getting as much as you can for as little as you can.

And I don't think there's anything wrong with that. The difference is that there are optimizers and there are maximizers. Maximizers try to ask the question, how do I get as much as I possibly can? Optimizers ask, how do I get as much as I can out of as little as I can? When you're looking at returns,

maximizers win. So what's the difference between first place, gold in the Olympics and second in the Olympics, silver, right? A tenth of a second in a race. But what is the realistic difference, the real world or pragmatic difference between being the best in the world

and second best, everything? And so when you're talking to, talking to an Olympian, you're talking to somebody who wants to be the top 1%, 0.01%, percent, 0.0,000, 0.0.01%. Diminishing returns are still returns. You need to do more because you're trying to win, not be cute about saying that you had great return. And I say this as somebody who was a converted optimizer. So in the earlier part of my life, I really prided myself on doing school with as little work as possible. I was like, you nerds, I was like, you guys needed to study, I can walk in and hit a 91 with no study. And I'll tell you this story that really,

really changed my life. So this guy named Kempnot, he was like, and hopefully Kemp, you know, maybe you'll see this. I gave Kemp a hard time. I did when I was in high school. And he was a kid who didn't catch on to stuff as fast. And you know, kept a successful guy now he's done great. But this thing happened. So all of high school, I kind of gave this guy a hard time. And when we went to go to apply to colleges, I wanted to go to Duke. So Duke's the top five school in the U.S. and I didn't get into Duke. I ended up going to Vanderbilt, which is also obviously a great school,

but I wanted to go to Duke. And guess who got into Duke? Kemp not. And so it was really interesting is that this whole time, like Kemp would go to study hall. He'd be like, teacher, you forgot to us on his homework. Like, he was that guy, right?

And I honestly just really disliked him. But mostly because it probably just reminded me of my own inadequacies of like I was just unwilling to do the amount of work that he was. And I shamed him for doing the amount of work that he did. I was like, you have to work so hard just to try and just trying to try and come close to me, right? But in the end, he got into the better college. And so it was

this really humbling lesson for me that none of the colleges cared that I worked less than him. They just cared about who had the best applications and who had the best grades. And it was this really like very eye-opening experience. And so when I went to college, I had a different frame that I was like, well, I'm not going to lose. I want to go here and I want to maximize. I want to study all the hours of the day that I'm not in class at the gym or at the cafeteria. I'm in the library. And you can ask anyone that I ever went to school with if you ever meet them. Like, that's where I was. I was in the library 12 hours a day because I was like, well, if I just study more than everyone, I'll get good grades. And that worked out pretty good.

That's just kind of a, just a little bit of framing around why I have such a strong affinity for more. Now, I'll give you a second kind of a little bit more heady reason. So I talked about how more is the highest risk you just return. I talked about how diminishing returns are still returns. They're still output, right? The next piece, though, is that change has a fixed cost and a very reward. All right, so let me explain what that means. So I want you to imagine that this line right here, ooh, nice and wet, how I like it. My markers, calm down, guys. Okay. So I've got this line. This represents your revenue or whatever your current level of activity or output is. Okay, now, what happens is most entrepreneurs, they say, you know what, I'm going to change something.

They think they're going to change something if things are going to get better, right? You tweak something, you mess around, you change your page, change your script, change your onboarding process, whatever, right? So then what happens? Well, if there's people involved, typically output will go to down. You have to retrain the team. They have to practice. You know, this variable affected two other variables you didn't know about. And this is completely based on my observation. You typically get about a 20% decrement or decrease in performance. What ends up happening after that is it might not work and then you stay here or it might be worse and this goes here or it might get better and it comes back up eventually, right? And then maybe you have a 5% higher output here. This is now your new

baseline. Now, here's the thing. If you have a 20% guarantee, decrease and you have the potential for a 5% increase. Do you take that bet? But I see entrepreneurs every day, myself included for many years, taking that bet over and over again because I'm like, I just have to get it better. I just have to get it better. But it was a fallacy. It's not true. Your business will never be perfect and you have to accept that fact. It will not be perfect. And the thing is, you don't even know if it's going to get better. You just aren't sure if it's cool, good enough. And so you just want to change it. You want to mess with it. Right. But the magic is the compounding returns you get when you do the same thing over and over again. You get this,

this depth of understanding, this depth of skill that happens with repetition, right? If necessity is the mother of invention, repetition is the father of skill. But let's look at what entrepreneurs will normally do. Maybe they'll start seeing some increase here, but what do they do next? They say, you know what, I've got this other idea I have. And so then they get another 20% decrease. And so they're constantly living significantly below their output means or your revenue or whatever your thing is, below what your potential is because you're constantly changing stuff. And I want to be real with you for a second. If you're a small business owner, you've got maybe 10, maybe 20 employees,

or if you're of anything less than that, then like, hear me right now. The amount of resources that you have to implement change are so limited. I pick like one big thing a year that I do, like one. And what happens is when you realize how limited your resources are in order to deploy successfully a new change or a new experiment, What happens is it forces prioritization. It forces you to focus on what things, if I only had one thing that I could do this year,

what one thing would I be like, this is the bet I'm going to take? Well, it certainly wouldn't be a 5% thing, right? Well, maybe we've read handwritten cards will get a 5% increase in referrals. Maybe, right? But given those resources, what else could you do?

And so when you look at the whole thing, the whole spectrum, and this is how I want to frame strategy for you around this. Most people think about business strategy. I got this from Sharon. I love this. I'm using it all the time.

It's so good. Most people think about business strategy like they think about making dinner. So they go to their kitchen, they open up the fridge, the liquid's inside and say, what am I going to whip up, right? That's how they think about business strategy. But the question that we should be asking isn't, what am I going to whip up from what's inside the fridge? We should ask the question, what the puss do I want to eat?

And then go get the ingredients and go make it happen. When you're saying, I'm only going to take one bet or two bets this year. They're going to be material. Then it forces you to be like, it's got to be worth it. Because here's the part that no one else knows. if you change nothing, believe it or not, people get better at their jobs. They get more skilled. And so you'll typically have one, two, three percent increases that happen kind of month

over month from you just not changing anything, from just leaving it alone. And so this has taken me so much time because I'm a natural, I'm a yes hitch, right? I'm like, let's do it. Let's shake it up. But why? Because the times I've made the most money in my life have not been when I've been changing the most. It's actually when the business has been really boring and we're just blocking and tackling

and doing it over and over again. And so this is something that some people never learn. Honestly, a lot of entrepreneurs never learned this. And the hard question, the hard problem to solve is not the new idea that you want to try. It's how can I do more once I've already exhausted my existing way of doing more? So for me, the minimum rule is that it's got to be over 20% if I'm going to get a 20% loss guaranteed, right? Of course. But I don't even know if I'm going to get this 20% because we have to analyze this through, this is an investor frame, by the way. it's called ice, right?

Which is impact, which is like how big, right? Confidence is how likely. And then ease is what are the resources required for us to make this thing happen, right? Now, the perfect world is something that's gigantic impact, gigantic competence, and super easy, right? That would be the best type of thing. And so when we have a risk adjust return move, we think, okay, I think this could double the business. I have super high confidence and I think it could be easy. Then those are the types of bets we want to take.

Because said differently, if you know that something could double your business with one move, why would you do three? Just because you have this compulsion to be busy, to mess with your team, doesn't mean it's what the business requires. And so a lot of people use the business to satisfy their own ADD, to satisfy their own need for novelty. When the business thrives on scene, it's very rare that you're Kodak and you need to adjust to the digital world. It's very rare. We love to tell these stories, but what we don't tell is the guy. who just said, you know what, I've got three levels of my membership and we're doing a million dollars a year, how do I 10x my traffic and get to 10 million dollars a year? And then once I'm

there, what do I need to do to get to another 10x of traffic to get to 100 million dollars a year? We don't ask those questions. Because one of the fallacies of the pains of small business owners is that we and myself included, right, we consistently think small. We don't think big enough. And so let me give you an example on this, right? So let's say, and this is where people get obsessed around optimization. They get obsessed around relative returns rather than absolute returns. So let's say that you've got a marketing campaign where you put $100 in and you get, call it, let's say you get $1,000 out. Okay? So this is 10 to 1. Amazing, right? Cool. But as soon as you scale to $200, let's say that you now are getting $6 to 1. So you get $1,000, which is pretty

bad. You know, you spend twice as much money and you only made $200 more, right? Most people would say, ah, I should stop doing this. The maximizer says, we made more money. Net, net, we made $900 here,000 minus $100. Here, we made $1,000. This is still more. And this is what people miss out on. And so what happens is when you're a small business owner, you get obsessed with these relative returns. And there's a point where you do want really high relative returns. You want to be high LTV to KAC and we can get into some of that stuff. But I want to just put pin this from a larger thinking perspective because I will see people stay in these optimization loops for years. You know, my opt-in page converts at 30%, right? This is my opt-in. And they'll just

keep testing it, trying to get it to 35 or 40 or 45%. But the thing is, it's just like, you will never 10x your business by getting this 30% will never go. It will never go to 300%. It's never going to happen. But you can 10x your inputs. You can do more. You can do more and you can send more in and then that will for sure increase your output, even if your relative return goes down. If I had the choice between spending $10,000 and making $100 back, 10 to 1, or spending a million dollars and getting $2 million back, 2 to 1,

I would take a million in to get two back every day, the week and twice on Sunday. Why? Because it's more. It's still more. It's absolute returns, absolute output. When you're thinking about yours, and I'll bring this to business now, right? I mean, I've been talking about business, but like more to business, more tactical. We have our core four, right?

We have our four ways of getting customers. We've got our warm outreach. We've got our cold outreach. We've got content. And then we've got paid, right? We've got paid ads. These are the only four things that you can do. How do we do more, right?

So from an ads perspective, we'll start here. More can simply mean more money. It could also mean more creative. It could mean more platforms. All of these things are versions of more more. And so I will typically do this in reverse order of risk, right? And so that means that I think that if I'm going to put this in order for paid, it'd be like, okay, well, the first I'm going to do is make more creative. If I have more creative, I have a higher chance of getting more winners. If I have more winners, then I'm going to get better rows and I'll be able to scale to more markets, more avatars, more segments. Great. So that's the first more I'm going to do. The second more I'm going to do is I'm going to say,

I'm going to spend more money on ads. How can I take my $100 a day and spend it for $1,000 a day? What stops me from doing that? And then third, if I do step one and step two and I make way more creative and I spend more money, then at that point, I say, okay, now that I built this machine that can create 10 times the creative volume, how do I do this within the context of Instagram? Or how do I do this in context of TikTok? Or how do this in the context of X, right?

Each of these platforms. So some of you guys don't know this. But for the launch, for the money models launch, this puppy. Ha ha ha, ha. Right? So for this guy, the reason we were able to do a hundred and five point whatever million at the launch is because we advertised so much, right? So we did, I think, 2,000 plus ads before the six weeks out began.

We had banked those 2,000 at 2,000, like count to 100 and then do that 20 times. And if you count it, they'd be like, wow, this is really boring. That's how long it takes to count to 2,000. We made 2,000 ads, which takes significantly longer than counting to 2,000. And so this is what people dramatically misunderstand is the amount of work it takes to do more. Because then I can say, well, my editor, I only have five editors. They can only do five ads a day each. And that's 25 ads a day is all we can put out.

Well, if I got to 2,000 ads, do I think that I would have a higher likely of hitting this big goal? Yes, what would it take? So it turned out, when we did the math, it took 15 editors. And so that means that we had to contract 10 more to do the editing. What does that cost? A lot less than 105 million. So we did it. So we figure out what would it take to get this big goal in terms of volume?

And then what are the resources required to do that? And then is it worth it? And most times the answer is a resounding yes, not a small yes, a big ass yes. And so then we say, then what's stopping us? And the answer is almost always nothing. Just do more. Now, that's how I would attack paid from a more perspective, right? From a content perspective, it's the same thing in terms of scaling editors.

Now, one of the interesting things about doing more is that doing more is so painful. so much work. It's a lot of work to do more. But that pain forces another forcing function, which is you will try and minimize how much work you're doing. Or at least you will try and get more. If you have a fixed work, like, I'm going to do 100 calls no matter what. I'm going to do 100 minutes of content no matter what. What do you think happens? You think, man, it'd be really nice if I got higher pickup rates. So then you start looking at your time and saying, you know, people pick up more in the afternoons for my market. Or they pick up really hot between 5 and 7 a.m. in this particular market, whatever, assuming you, you know, follow the law, whatever. You start.

getting better. You start looking at the data. You start saying, go like, if I'm going to do all this work, I might as well make it worth it, right? But you have to put yourself in that pain, that pain of the lack of leverage, the pain of it being inefficient, but you have to keep it there because what happens otherwise is like the weak minded, the week of will do 100 for one day or two days in run. They'll say, I didn't get the result I wanted. It's like, duh, of course you didn't. You didn't do nearly enough. And so this is why I think people stay small. They get obsessed with the margin. They get obsessed with the relative returns. They get obsessed with the optimization. But sometimes you just have to do a violent, unreasonable amount of work for an extended period of time because part of

volume is the consistency associated with it. We couldn't make 2,000 ads in a day. We had to make 25 or 50 ads. And we had to do it every single day for hundreds of days in a row to get to the point where we could make 2,000, right? And that was before we started. We ended up what with 3,000, 2,800. We made 2,800 ads. But we're like, man, I can't, I can't scale my ads pass a certain way. You don't have enough. We spent 500,000 a day per day at the end of the launch, last few days. And you can only get to that level of scale with an equal amount of scale in terms of the inputs. This is probably my favorite volume story that I have because it was so real for me. I paid somebody who was, you know, way bigger than me at the time in terms of like content

and all that stuff early on in my career. And I was like, hey, you know, what should I do? And he was like, dude, he's like, he said, pull up your, pull up your LinkedIn. And I was like, okay, he said, pull up my LinkedIn. And he had made 10 posts that day. And I had made one. He was like, okay, pull up Instagram, pull up your Instagram. He had made your Instagram.

He had made one that day. And then he said, pull up your YouTube. Pull up your YouTube. And once we did this two or three times, I was like, I get it. I get it. I just need to do way more. He's like, yeah, dude. Like, way more.

And so we as humans often think I need to do twice as much. I need to do three times as much. We can't bathe them what it would mean to do a hundred times as much or a thousand times as much. But if you want to beat every fucking human being in the arena to the battle of the death, wouldn't you want to leave no doubt? Wouldn't you want to make fucking sure that you were going to win? Because here's the thing. If you see someone ahead of you, a lot of people get triggered by this.

They see someone ahead of them and they throw rocks and they're like because it makes them feel bad at themselves. I strongly encourage you not to do that. If someone is doing better than you, they are better than you in some way. in that you can learn of them. Real. So when someone's doing better, if you're like, I got to beat them, you look at their volume, right? And let's say that someone's doing three times this volume that you can see, right? What do you do? Do you do three times the volume? No, because now you're just matching them. You need to do 10 or 20 or 30 times the volume because not only that, they're doing volume that you can't

see. You're just judging on the volume you can see. And so if you want to leave no doubt, it's like not only if I did the same amount of work as that guy, I'm always behind. So I got to do more work to catch up. But that's just based on what I can see. I might have to do more more to make sure that I accommodate for the things that I can't see. And so I think I would ask yourself the question, if I knew beyond a shout of a doubt that if I could do a hundred times more than I'm currently doing, I would hit the goals that I have. Then I would then ask the question, great, what resources are required? And then following up to that, is it worth it? And if the answer is yes, what's stopping you?