The Game with Alex Hormozi - The Business Game No One Tells You About. Hormozi Hotline. | Ep 908

Episode Date: November 7, 2025

Welcome to The Game w/Alex Hormozi, hosted by entrepreneur, founder, investor, author, public speaker, and content creator Alex Hormozi. On this podcast, you’ll hear how to get more customers, make more profit per customer, how to keep them longer, and the many failures and lessons Alex has learned and will learn on his path from $100M to $1B in net worth.Wanna scale your business? ⁠⁠Click here.⁠⁠Follow Alex Hormozi’s Socials:⁠⁠LinkedIn ⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠Facebook⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠YouTube ⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠Twitter⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠Acquisition ⁠

Let's talk about whatever. And by whatever, I mean, ideally, K-Men-related topics. You don't understand the value of enterprise value. Of course, you build net worth without taxes, but it's fictional numbers that can't liquidate. I like cash flow, hard cash. Thanks to B-L-C-C-T-G-J.

Let me tell you why enterprise value fucking matters. Enterprise value is important for a variety of reasons. Enterprise value dictates how valuable something is. So, Stripe, for example, is not publicly traded, but people are willing to invest money in it, and so the founders can get liquidity. And so what you want is to be able to spend something. But the thing is that that comes from the position of already not having enough. So let me explain.

Once a business actually has that enterprise value, it usually has already generated or had the ability to generate more than sufficient cash flow for the owner, which means that all the excess cash flow that the business generates is going to be transferred to the owner. in a tax inefficient manner. And so then what happens is that you want to have growth in your net worth that isn't affected by taxes, right? And so if you say, I want cold hard cash, cool, bro, you want to pay your rent. I get it.

After you're done paying your rent and after you pay your house off and after you pay for your parents' house and after you pay for their cars and your kids' schools and all that, there's still cash flow coming in. And then you're like, well, an upgrade on my cars. Okay, great. And then I want a vacation. Cool, cost $100,000 if you want to be a fucking baller. Okay, then what?

Then you want the most efficient tax vehicle for building wealth, which is your enterprise value. Guess what else you can do with a high value enterprise? You can take loans against it. You can get lines of credit. It becomes an asset. You can raise capital on that, right? And so said differently, there's levels to this game. if you want to move up levels, you need to play a different game.

And you have to graduate. If you don't know where your rent's coming next month, fuck enterprise value. Being super real here, fuck enterprise value. If you have those things satisfied, and the vast majority of my content, I try to make four business owners who are trying to get bigger, who are trying to scale, enterprise value becomes increasingly important. Basically, the bigger you get, the more you satisfy your needs, the people around these needs, at some point, then it becomes about the game. And to be clear, I'm not saying this game is the only game worth playing, and there's not other games in life that are worth winning.

But in the game of business, net worth becomes the objective measure. And so that's how that works. Cool. Okay. Let's do next question. So, Alex, as a software dev trying to grow a startup app, what do you recommend? I mean, that's like saying, how do you advertise? honestly, read this book, pick one of the core four, which is either going to do outreach to people you know, outreach to people you don't know.

You're going to do paid ads. You're going to make content. The other four things you can do is get an agency to do that thing for you, find affiliates to do that thing for you, get customers to do off a viral loop, or you have employees that do the first four on your behalf. Those are your options. Which one would I pick if I were you? In the beginning, you actually care more about revenue retention. and then eventually, once you have revenue retention, then we have to figure out whether it's going to be viral growth

or it's all based on like, I can keep everyone who comes in past month 12, but the issue is that no-no knows about my stuff. And then it just becomes a cacted LTV ratio. Problem, it's just math after that. Okay. The problem, the hard part is obviously keeping people. Okay.

Can you clearly define how to find out what is valuable to your marketplace? Yes. You ask them to buy it. and if they pay you for it, then they have found value in it. And if you're like, what, how do I know how to define value? I actually wrote a book on that too. I actually made an equation for it. So the value equation has four components.

One is the dream outcome, which is what is the thing that people ultimately want? And then the other three variables are things that detract or pull away from that dream outcome. And so if I can give you this dream outcome, let's say that you want to get a six-pack, you're going to be in shape. And I say, it's going to take two years. so it's going to be slow. It's going to take time from you every single day. It's going to take a long time, and it will take you a lot of time.

So it's two elements of time. It's going to cause you to have to do things that you don't want to do. And it's going to cause you to stop doing things that you do want to do. So you stop good stuff and you start bad stuff. And on top of that, there's a chance that you might not hit it, even if you do all these other things right and you take all this sacrifice. Is that a valuable thing? it's kind of, but I basically described the fitness sale to you.

You got to work out. You got to stop eating tacos. You can't drink on the weekends, right? It's going to take multiple years. And it's also going to take you time every single day. You're going to be sore, going to be tired, all this stuff, right? And then on top of that, you might try this whole period of time and you might have terrible genetics. And so all that to say, it will, that's why I have to spend an hour arm wrestling,

somebody to sign up for personal training. On the flip side, if I sold GLP1, which is a diet drug, right, and they have a new drug that's coming out that they're going to pair with GLP1, which is like a muscle preserving drug. So you can literally keep or gain a little bit of muscle on this drug while also starving yourself. Then you have a better physique and it takes no willpower and you just take this drug. So it's fast. It's virtually guaranteed because it requires no willpower. I'm going to get you the physique you want. Which one's more valuable? Which one do you think it would be harder to sell. Probably the personal training one. And so fundamentally, this is how you differentiate value. Hopefully that answer your question. All right, hotline. Let's rock and roll.

All right. Who we got? Hello. You're on speaker. What's up, man? Hi, this is William in Michigan. How you doing, Alex? William in Michigan? Yeah. All right. What's up, man? Tell me about the business. Yeah, so I'm in the And the main problem we have Still, the LTV So they stay within a year At least in our business

But I'd like to find out a way That we're getting cash But it takes two, three months For us to really get good profits And then, of course, after that, It's doing really well But how we bring that cash up forward And present it ahead of time

Are you billing insurance or you billing private? No insurance. Okay, got it. So do you bill monthly or how do you bill? Yeah, so we built, you know, the first of the last month's rent. And last month's rent is fully, you know, we're fond of bill on a 30-day notice, but it's similar to like an apartment building. Yeah, got it.

So I would have, honestly, all, there's really only two options that are, like, immediately available to you, or I guess three. So number one is you could have some sort of set up, enrollment, onboarding, some sort of fee like that that you could put into the upfront payment. That's thing one. Thing two is you could require first three months up front. That's option two. Option three is you can add on an additional service that many of them need,

and then you could contract that out. So let's say that what are the other things that someone has to buy in order to begin your service? I'm guessing there's some sort of moving costs or moving services, right? Yeah, there's like ancillary, like transportation, beauty, hair and nails, stuff like that. Yeah. So basically what we do is just create a bundle that many of,

those people immediately need to buy in addition to, have you read the Money Miles book? Yeah. Okay. I'm reading through it and I bought the course too. Oh, awesome. So, big picture, one of the first stories I tell him there is a guy who owns a storage facility. And so he gave a free month of storage way. So a very similar business to yours, not saying that you give free month, but same idea.

It's like, well, what else do you need to have when you have a storage unit? You need a lock? Oh, you need boxes. Oh, you need insurance. oh, you need maybe a bigger unit, right? And so all of these things pull cash forward. And so, well, not the bigger unit, but the other ones do. And so same degree, it's like, okay, can we sell insurance on top?

Can we sell the move-in services? Can we sell the boxes associated with that? Do you know what I'm going with us? Yeah. So I think people will have some sort of elasticity. Like people are very, very sensitive to the monthly fee, right? Less the people are less sensitive to one-time fees because it's only once. Correct.

So we just need to create that one-time fee for people And it'll be even more profitable Obviously if it's not just a fee but it's also tied to stuff they already have to get solved And if they do it through you then it just feels easier Is that help? Yeah, something else is thinking about too It's like even furniture we have it fully furnished but maybe we could give them like Buy extra furniture if they want a nice clean size or upgrade on their bed

We could offer that to them too That's something that just popped up I didn't have to thought about that Yeah, exactly so we just look at all the other problems that a customer has, that they're going to pay somebody to solve, because you're at a transition point in someone's life, so money's coming out of their pocket and the wall, it's already open. And if you can, especially because this is such a stressful time for many families, if you can just say, like, if you can just say, we'll handle everything, just pay us this extra fee, we'll make it easy. Many people will just give you that money. And then I think you would pull forward all your,

your cash flow to our customers. Awesome. Okay. Well, sounds good, Alex. Appreciate you, William. All right. Have that. a good at a man. I just, yeah. Do we have somebody on here? All right, we got some boats coming in. What's up, man? Howdy, how are you?

Howdy. What's your name? My name is J.T. J.T. All right, J.T. Yes, sir, brother. Tell me about your business. I run, like, a real estate company.

Okay. Closer, and it handles the marketing and sales for, like, new wholesalers and people getting into the business and learn the process while they... Okay, so you generate appointments and leads for them? we generate the leads for them and we send our sales team on the deal so basically we are running like the entire fund end and the back end so they're basically funding the marketing but they get to learn while they do the process so why this genuine question like why do you do that versus just like doing wholesaling i do it because it's like we're able to see the liquidity issue and wholesale because the they're taking it down to where we can like become way more profit yeah okay um you could raise money and just do it. Side note, but all right. Okay, so what do you want to have happened?

That's not happening. Yeah. With people, they agree on the price for financing problem, and should we just collect... Well, how are they going to afford to pay for the marketing, too, if they can't pay for... Or is that what you're saying? They can't afford to pay for the marketing.

What's the revenue stick? What's the stick in this business? Like, how long... Like, do people stay for years doing this with you? What percentage of customers are here 12 months later? No, within like 90 days.

Okay, so you white label go a high level or something. Okay. Okay, so the issue is that, what's your LTV to KAC right now? Okay, so you're 7 to 1. Okay. So, I mean, that inherently is okay. So what stops you from doing more of what you're doing?

Okay. I would probably just throw in lead qualifications on the front end. It'll just like decrease the, frustration of your team, you'll probably increase your, well, obviously you'll increase your close rates if you take out the disqualifies, but it'll, you'll close more in general because the sales team won't be beat down from hearing no all day. I'll tell you this man, you will make significantly more money by adding qualifications to a funnel. Like I almost, I have almost never, I'm like,

I'm trying to think of a time where me adding qualification friction made me less money. Your metrics will change. So like you're, so not KAC and LTV, but your LTV might change. But said differently, like, your cost per call or cost per click or whatever metric you use there will probably go up, but your KAC may go down. And your LTV will certainly go up. I would just add more qualifications in the process and then do more. So I guess that would be for the appointment to go up. It should make it more profitable because we're not talking to unqualified people, correct? Yes.

Because listen, if you let some of these minnows in, right, it's not a good fit for them. It's putting, it's their last dollar. Like, you should not, like, you shouldn't do it ethically anyways. But, like, outside of ethics, because that won't, that never convinces anyone if they're making money. It's not good for the business. It's bad for the sales team. It's bad for reputation. And fundamentally, like, when you accept everyone, you ward off people who can actually afford stuff.

Yeah. Yeah. And like, I show, we're really in depth, but the issue there is the majority of people who come in are. So you can add qualified. What is the lead man again? the lead magnet is a training like it's like all of our SOPs like all of our SOPs all of our basically for our entire company you can you I mean you can have the SOPs there whatever just put out an extra box that says like whatever the qualifications are

that are that you know are required for somebody to be a good customer so like for example at the book launch people could opt in to show up to the launch the launch functionally acted as a as a lead magnet in this scenario I still ask for people whether they They owned a business, and if they had a business, what revenue level they were at. Because I have no need for leads in a CRM who are not business owners above a certain size to get a call from my team. There's no point. It's a waste of their time. It's a waste of ours.

They should just use all my free stuff. And so just add a qualifier on the front end. Okay. And then only call those leads. And then have the thank you page sort leads, the best leads to the sales team. And then the worst lead, just send them to an automated thing that maybe self-liquidate some of the adsmen. Yeah. put something vague, like we have right now, are you willing to invest in your business?

No, but that's not a qualification question, dude. That's, that's like, do you have a pulse and a credit card question? I'm saying you have to, you need to figure out who your avatar is. Have you read the Lost Chapters book? The Lost Chapters book? No, I haven't read that one. First chapter of the Lost Chapters book is finding your, or your first avatar. All right, the process that it walks through in the book and that first chapter is you need to look at the customers who have spent the most with you and stayed the longest. What are their characteristics? So we look at their demographics, like, who are they? Right?

We looked at their quantifiables, like, do they have a certain income level? Do they have a certain amount of kids? They have a certain family. And then I look at geographics. Do they live in a certain area? Right. And so when I have those three things put together, then I know that it's like, okay, it's actually conservative Christian males, you know, 35 plus who are married is actually my best avatar. And it's like, great.

So that's what we're going to make in our ads. And your big fear right now is if I make more qualifications, my cost is going to go up. But it's not, dude, because you're going to need to advertise to the right type of customer and you'll get those people to opt in and then you will go get them to buy more expensive stuff. It's everyone's fear. Everyone's fear is going from general to specific, but when you go specific, you get the right people. Qualification question and making it specific to the avatar. So in order, it will be determine the avatar by looking at all the customers that you have. You want to look at who they are, what quantifiables they have, geographics, and if you can, bonus points for.

sales process, did they consume anything else in the sales process? They have a different experience than the people who aren't worth as much. Once we have that data, we then weave that into the advertising in terms of callouts of who the avatar is. We weave that into the landing pages. We've that into the drop downs for the questions and the friction that we add in the funnel. We add that into the VSLs. If you have a VSL, I'm sure you do, that tells them about the process and it begins with the pains and the hook of that specific avatar. You do all that stuff, you will for sure convert more. Cool. Thank you, brother. You bet, man. Have it going, dude. All right. So it looks like, ooh, what does it look like? Let's, let me see if any question. Okay. What you think are the best

revenue retention opportunities for an architecture firm? What would it take to get their started from scratch? All right, Emiliano, I'm going to give you, I'm going to give you some game. So some businesses like yours, you need to chunk up a level to figure out revenue retention. So what does that mean? So I'll give you an example. So Alan, say the universe knew, Alan, the software that we ran, at the beginning, I was trying to sell lead nurture services to brick and water businesses, SMBs. The problem with lead nurture services when you have an SMB is that they have inconsistent lead flow. And so as soon as they're like, oh, this is great, but how do we get leads? And I was like, oh, no, this is a whole other problem. This is a different business. And so then we

had the smart idea of like, well, what businesses already have leads? And the answer to that question was businesses already working with agencies. And so then I said, oh, maybe agencies are really our customer. And so that's what we figured out was that agencies would bring customers in and they would churn those people out. But let's say a chiropractor agency has 10 chiropractors that pay $2,000 a month. I'm sorry, mini-ditty-bitty agency, right? They've got 10 chiropractors paying $2,000 a month. And let's say every month they lose two carpenters and they gain two chiropractors.

I can rely on that agency to use my software, month over month for month, with each of his chiropractor people, even though the logos of the people inside of his little ecosystem will change. But my revenue retention at the agency level was super good. So why did I tell that story? Because it's an analogy for you, Emiliano, which is that your architecture firm, you're thinking about it at the house level or at the building level, right? If you chunk up a level, which is like, okay, who are the referral partners or who are the people that you do business with on a regular basis? Is it contractors? Is it Who are the people referring your business?

And so once we find those people who you're doing business with a regular basis, we want to demonstrate that we're retaining them rather than at the project level. So you chunk up and then those become your nodes of revenue. And so you then have your acquisition or your sales motion is going to be geared around, how do I advertise and acquire more of these referral partners? And I know each referral partner is worth X and it costs me Y in order to require them and I can retain them significantly more than I can for the individual products. logos that they're bringing on.

Does that help him, Miliana? That's how you do it. Okay. Next caller. Hello. What's up, man? What's your name?

My name is Liam. I'm 24. My business is going to do about six million in revenues here. Okay. And we do apparel TV shows unlimited time exclusive drops. Apparel.

Okay, so you do, so you partner with a, you partner with Shark Tank, right? I'm saying hypothetically. So you partner with a TV show and then you make Shark Tank merch and then you drop, they drop that merch on their show, and you deliver. We market it ourselves, we drop it through our channel.

So it's a collaboration, but it's all through our own channels. But you obviously get to use their brand in the advertising, and then you do some sort of like split on the profits, I'm guessing. Yes? Yep. Okay, great. So you're doing $6 million. What's internal revenue? Or rather, what's gross profit and then what's internal revenue?

So that's kind of three numbers there. Gross profit. this year we're going to be running at about 10 to 15 percent and gross so six million dollars is what you made that's how many shirts were bought right okay six million dollars of shirts are bought what do you sell a shirt for what does it cost you fully loaded fifty dollars for a shirt and it costs it's about 12 damn okay okay so you got 38 on 50 right is what is what you're making right yep okay fantastic Now, so what's that?

That's 75%-ish gross margins somewhere in there. Okay. So that's fine. Now, of that $38, what's the split between you and the TV show? Each license is negotiated into Pettity. It can rank from 5% to 25% depending on the size of the IP. Oh, so they get 5%, so they would get $2.5 per shirt all the way to getting $12 a shirt. Yeah.

Okay. That's not bad. Okay. This is workable. So I'm just going to say like midpoint, let's just say midpoint is 10 bucks, all right. We'll be aggressive with it. So 10 bucks. So you actually get $28 per shirt on a $50 shirt. Call it 25 with other shit. So 50% is what we're working off of. Okay. So what was net profit? About 600K. Got it. 10%. Okay. So what's the problem? We've completely capped out on our, we do almost exclusively pay traffic on meta and TikTok. We drive people to a wait list for the drop, we hike the drop up, and then we do a launch.

All right. The pricing model, we base it off of what we can acquire a lead for, and the problem is, each item in terms of how much revenue projects. 25% weightless to purchase ratio, some will convert it 5%. And so we need a more cost-effective way to acquire leads. essentially we're just dead in the water at 10%. Yeah. So I think the big thing that's actually missing for you is predictive data.

So you being able to say, like, you're like, well, they perform broadly differently. Well, the more you do it and the more data you track, the less wild it should be. Does that make sense? So if you were to take somebody, I'll give you a simple example. If somebody else were to go launch a book, right, and they have, call it 4 million YouTube followers, whatever. And I launch a book, and I have four million YouTube followers. Why is it that my book is going to sell way more than theirs? You should be able to answer that question quantitatively. And so that'll take a lot of the guesswork and the volatility around which brands

you partner with and the power of the negotiation. Because I'm sure there's some deals where they thought their brand was significantly more valuable than it really was. And there's probably other brands, and this is probably even sometimes more often the case, a brand that they don't think it's that valuable at all, and in fact, it's actually super valuable in terms of the people who are willing to buy. So, thing one is predictive data. Thing two, have you considered going to

influencers and doing this exact same model? We have. The big thing is emotional relevancy to the show or to whatever the IP is. A lot of influencers, they're not been particularly well or something

like that, where it's like a really good example is the Nelkoids with full sentence, right? Find a commonality with the audience. They have a hierarchy of brand over they treat themselves

like ambassadors. We've looked at it. We've interviewed you, but the numbers just never made sense to us. Well, I mean, like, I feel like they should because you're taking

premium TV shows, which have a lot of times smaller audiences than, like, some big creators, though. Hey, you honestly right. Mr. Breeski dropped a t-shirt and do your entire year's revenue

in, like, a day. You can dive deeper into the creator economy. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And they'll collab it with you. And there's a zillion of them, and a lot of them don't make money. And they're not going to be hardcore negotiators.

Sorry, go ahead. All of the IPs are collecting are in a specific niche. Yeah. And as we retain a whole lot of the IP, we can renew these releases over and over again. Okay. And that makes us an acquisition target. when we have all these relevant IP. You mean just the T-shirts that you're allowed to use

and the ads that you can run for them? Exactly, because all the TV shows, they're anime TV shows. Oh, word. I got it. So you're super niche. So the issues, what? Issues that, like, it's not growing as fast as you want. And, I mean, what kind of exit do you want?

I would like to get positions for, like, 4 to 5X EBITU within two years in, like, the Tesla Plus range. Well, who wants to... Okay, I'm going to say it back to you. So basically, like, you'd want to make, like, three or four million bucks on a sale? Yes. Okay. Who would be an acquirer for a business like this?

Who's the buyer? Big media distribution companies. There's a whole bunch of any moving into westernizing this Japanese IP. There's some pretty big players, multiple billions of dollars in space now. Yeah, but if they're... Advice for the company list and all the exclusive IP, exclusive rights. Yeah, I have two pieces of relatively kind of... kind of maybe bad news.

Bad news number one is that multi-billion-dollar companies don't write $4 million checks. It's just, it's de minimis, right? It doesn't move the new. The second issue is that the nature of what you do is not that complicated.

I can just have the show and make my own t-shirt. I'm not saying this because I want to blow your balloon up. That's not my point. I'm just kidding because I want to help. So you're all in anime. I mean, what about anime creators? There's tons of those.

even in that niche. Yes, this is what we're looking at doing next is building out a really called ambassador program. Yeah. And failing to... You could build... I think the ambassador program, so if we're talking about high leverage, right? I think the ambassador program is really smart for a couple reasons. Thing one is that each of the ambassadors themselves, once you...

They could go promote each of these other products and then make money. You build your own, functionally, a TikTok shop of T-shirts via ambassadors who are pushing them because they think the T-shirt's sick. That's not that hard of a push, and a lot of people would sell that, right? You'll then see which ambassadors have the most pool. So you'll get early data. And then what I was talking about early with predictive data, you will then be able to say, oh, these, here's, we have a thousand, you know, ambassadors of people who are micro and nanocreaters and maybe mega creators around anime.

And we're going to make t-shirts for the top hundred of them and do drops so that every week we do two drops a week for these creators. and they're going to go promote other T-shirts for the premium brands that you were talking about, the IP throughout the year, but you, but they themselves will do two drops for themselves, which will pull way fucking harder anyways. Okay, so to make sure I understand this,

it would be partnering with larger creators doing drops relevant to their audience, building a relationship, and then they would also double-diff where they would promote for our exclusive IP releases as well. I think you're a really good idea. All right. Thanks.

Yeah. There it is. I'm going to own all the cribs. All right. There you go, brother. Have a good, man.

I'm going to chat. Okay, so I am starting a SaaS on property due diligence slash inspection services for buyers. Interested and serious about buying one or more property should I hire inspectors or operate a platform model. Honestly, dude, I think you'll find out.

Like, I think you, like, you'll take a bet, and I started Allen and was like, oh, we're going to build lead nurture for small businesses. This will be a home run. And then I found out that agency owners were actually our best, our best customer. So you'll probably, like, depending on how different the, I'll say platforms are significantly harder to build. So I think B2B SaaS is a way safer bet. I mean, as a co-founder of school, I can tell you, it is not easy to do. And the hardest part is the part that school is already through.

but it's the five years of going from, you know, every single person saying, can I white label this? Can I white label this? And you having no real value prop besides like someday this will be really valuable when it's a marketplace. But once you turn that corner because you make the product so good, then the marketplace component, if you're saying true, a platform model. But I would do the reason platforms get the multiples they do is because it's so, so expensive and so hard to do. I would prefer a B2B SaaS model. If I was if I was a betting man and it was my life and equals one you can't live 10 lives or 20 lives I would probably but if you're like I have to be a trillionaire then if that's the thing

then you got to go platform okay okay I actually am going to answer this other one rowdy adventures I have a patent that will be pending in eight weeks what would you recommend to do in preparation for that I've already been working on finding this cheapest manufacturer to get the price of parts down all right so I've got good news and I got bad news. So patents, believe it or not, don't mean shit unless, guess what, you have a legal budget to defend them. So I have a five-person team full-time in-house that all they do is take downs. Every week we take down 50, 100, 200 plus accounts, all those scam things where people try and sell my stuff or the impersonator account, like all that stuff that happens. We have a full legal team that

gets them delisted, gets their out-account shutdown, gets them removed from social media, gets their Shopify pages down because their process is removed. That's a whole process. But that only works if you defend it. And so basically, in the eyes of the law, if you do not defend your patents or your IP, they're not that defensible. Also, like, the idea, like, business is much more ruthless and cutthroat than you think it is. Because, like, people will just steal your shit and then say, what are you going to do? Right. And then it's going to be a multi, it's a long legal process to prove how close is it. Is this fair competition? There's a lot of other stuff. So having a patent in of itself does not in any way guarantee success. You're still going to have to market it.

The patent has to be around something that truly is core that no one else can reproduce around the product. And so basically, you still got to start a business. You still got to make the business make money. And then when you have some of that money and you start to get successful, that is when the dupes will start flowing in, the duplicates. And then at that point, you need to start allocating a amount of capital to continue to defend the IP. As far as we're concerned, until the business is successful, the patent means nothing. Okay. So, who else we got?

Hello, sir. They get daily social media templates, lead magnets, training videos, all this stuff to help them. Okay. So it's a membership. Yeah, we do. What do you give them on a monthly basis? A lot of it is just daily social media, personal branding, post, like, little lead magnet things and that they can customize again and use on their Instagram and training videos to help them settle up their Instagram all that stuff but mostly it's going to be the content templates yeah okay got it okay so how many people you got what do you charge so we charge $49 a month all right we have just under 300 members okay months yeah and we take home cool got it so what is the what's the issue so my question is what's the turn real crazy

just sort of push. Which turn? What's turn? Yeah. Yeah. The hovers around 12%. You know, monthly? Yeah. Monthly? Yeah. Okay. Got it. Do you have any metrics that like after a certain point people continue to stick? We've only been in business for just over a year. So it's hard to get. Yeah, yeah. Well, I'll tell you why this is important. If let's say it's 12%, well, 12% is tough because that's like you lose all the customers by the end of the year, almost. Okay. What's sales? velocity right now meaning monthly sales unit sold between you know 50 months 50 a month 50 a month yeah okay got it okay so you're still you're still growing but slow we're getting to the point where churn is starting to catch up with yeah and that kind of leads into my question being you know how do you kind of decide whether to push or pivot when there are sort of these structural

challenges or at least perceived structural challenges in your market and you're you're maybe looking at a different, doing it for a different. Why do you think this other market is going to be different than real estate agents? Yeah, so I mean, in terms of that they're a given, it's, and basically what we've seen in our market, there is like a market leader with, you know, over 5,000 members been doing it for, and a couple others with a thousand plus. Like, we are a late entry into this market. This is something we started to do just because we thought we might as well pick a proven business model.

and we've seen other content memberships in other industries like, you know, accountants, one with like aesthetic nurse practitioners start at the same time as us, have the same Instagram following, we've gone to their funnels, and they've like 5X. Yeah.

From, in terms of what we've been able to do growth-wise and we're wondering, trying to figure out why that is, essentially. Do you have full transparency into their numbers? I have full transparency, you know, the amount of members that I know, for example. Do you know what their turn is and how many members they have? I can give you one example. example of one that has we have like 50 can and SRAM we're kind of friendly with them and I know they have like 1800 members okay and that's past that's been a year and they and their sales velocity from

what I can tell is like 100 plus a month maybe 150 200 months okay and they start the same time as you I mean they have no they have no big competitors yeah well I mean I think going to an underserved marketplace is not a terrible idea the reason I'm like more okay with this is that you guys are still really early. You know what I mean? Like it's kind of it's pretty much a brand new business. I do think that like is this business that you have fixable? Yes. If the market leader, I'll put quotes around that has 5,000 people. Well, there's like a million realtors. So there's lots of opportunity that's still there. Like no one really owns the market. So those are kind of the plus sides. I'm going to also bet that like to your point, it might not be that realtor like realtors, of course,

if you take them in aggregate are have volatility. But if you look at the top five percent, of realtors, like they make their full-time, right? If you have a lot of part-timers who are in there, then you have huge amounts of churn because they're barely even business owners, right? So you could probably fix your first. In terms of our value prop, though. Yeah, okay, go ahead.

Yeah, just in terms of our value profits, mean, if you're a top 1% agent, you social media manager or media team were a low-cost alternative to that, essentially. So it's kind of just a feature, not a bug, I guess, of our business. Okay, zooming all the way. What do you want to have happened? You want to sell this thing to make more money?

Right. So the thing is, is that you're selling 50 a month, which is actually like really not a lot. From a sales velocity perspective, even the size of that market. And that, like, that is the problem. But, like, you could sell, like, if you have a million person marketplace, it's like, we could be selling a thousand of these a month. Right. And then the churn, even though it's 12%. It's like, well, we just know that we're going to get eight months on average times 50 bucks.

So we're going to make $400 per customer as long as KAC is, you know, $100 or less. Cool. We have high margins. We're going to go. And you just take the money and then you do whatever you're going to do. That's like short term. You could do that. And I think targeting people who've done a sale within the last 30 days or something like that, maybe they're not the 1% but they're like quote on the way. They're quote reinvesting their business. And if they just had a sale in last 30 days, they have some cash. There's some elements here that you can do. Also like are you doing a big, do a big promotion for getting annuals. Yeah, we try it best. We do two months off. We're starting to add other bonuses in terms of the annual as well to try to. push more people towards annuals, but yeah. Right now, LTV is eight months for you. So you might as well give four and pull the cash flow for it, since it's equivalent. And turn on those customers will be lower.

Right. Cool. All right. So that's thing one. Now, it's the larger question of, like, should you go after a blue or ocean market? And in so doing, like, does that mean you're going to start another Instagram page and, like, build that whole thing up and do that game? Possibly that we can do, but it's obviously. Okay.

I'll tell you what I want. I don't think it's a bad idea. I'll say that. I don't think it's a bad idea. Like normally I just say like, no, stick with your existing thing. I do think you should stick with this thing a little longer, and I'll tell you why. I think that it would behoove you to learn which types of realtors churn versus the ones that don't. And there's probably two or three characteristics that separate the people who do versus the ones that don't.

Number one. Number two, I do think you do make a better incentive to get people to prepay for annual. Number three, is there a version of this business that like on top of this you sell some sort of maybe $500 a month thing as an upsell or a thousand dollar a month? thing that does have some sort of managed element to it, that you have lots of AI and automation built into it so that you can do it with high gross margins. Yeah, I like, I can appreciate the simplicity of the business, believe me. I just feel like you have a lot more to learn from this before doing the next thing, rather than just saying like, oh, it's the avatar.

It's just because like that's the obvious thing that everyone says. And the market leader, in all the quotes here, as 5,000 people. It's not that many. No, I'd just say it's the avatar to the best of my abilities. You know what I mean? It seems like, yeah, it's easy way. So that's what I would do. All right.

So I would try to learn more about the customers, number one. Number two, I'd have the annual prepay thing. Number three, I would start running ads and see what your cast of acquisition is with ads. And having that strong prepayment thing, I would also have a self-liquidating offer on the thank you page that could be even higher than just the annual, right? Because that could just improve the funnel metrics overall. Okay. Like a higher ticket item? Yeah, and I'll say a higher ticket with quotes here.

I'm talking like $197 to $397, somewhere in there, which might be like, we have all these accounts. We'll tell you, we're going to give you the 100 best performing pieces of real estate content over the last year. I would buy that. All right, that's what I would do. I think you need to learn this game better, and then you'll have more perspective, and you might just break through and then just become the market leader. Yeah, okay, thank you. Really appreciate everything you do. Appreciate you, too.

Okay. Mr. Mosey, that's Mr. Mosey to you. As a video editor who's facing client acquisition problems, I get scared thinking of AI and if I even have a scope in the future. Brough! Why would you be scared of AI when AI makes your job a hundred times easier to scale? Like, for the short to medium term, there is tremendous leverage. Like, everyone knows, quote, knows that AI is going to come for everyone's job. Okay.

internet is going to disrupt every industry. Okay. And it has. But guess what? There's also businesses that still don't operate on the internet, so use fax machines. So like, it's still going to follow an adoption curve of early adopters all the way to laggards. And some people will never adopt it at all. And those businesses can still make money. Real talk. Some people use fax machines still make money.

Some people only do in-person business and only use, you know, paper and clipboards still make money. And so I wouldn't fear it. You always want to harness it because as long as humans can compete against humans, with tools, that's how it's always been for the dawn of mankind. As soon as it's AI versus human, AI will win. And so, as far as I'm concerned right now, use the AI to get as much leverage as you can. Maybe you could 100x your scale using technology rather than fearing it.

Last caller. Hello, signor, or signorita. Oh, can you hear me? That's a signor. Hello. Talk to me about the business. So I do robotics, cutting cannabis scenes, essentially. That's our main product. Robotics and what?

Two different people. Hold on. Robotic cutting candy machines. Robotic cutting and canning machines? No, robotic cotton candy. Cotton candy. Robo cotton candy. Got it.

All right. Yes, you could put it like that. Okay. So we have too many people we sell too. We have entrepreneurs who buy our machine as an investment and put them in locations. And then we have actual businesses who we do one. of two things we place it there for free, give them a percent of sales, or they can buy it for their business. Now, we're at a point right now where we have a bunch of entrepreneurs, too many

to account who want to buy a machine, but they don't have enough locations to put them at. So what we're trying to figure out is we're trying to figure out the best way to get locations. I love this business. This is cool. And we're trying to basically build an outbound funnel. Dude, this is a cool business. I like this business. Okay. So give me, give me some, Give me some cotton candy money. Give me some cotton candy money. What is that?

Obviously, it depends on the location of foot traffic and blah, blah, blah. But what does the average cotton candy robot cotton candy machine make? I've been waiting all day for probably. Go ahead. At the trampoline park, it's not amazing. It's about $1,000 a month.

But at a higher tier venue, so think like museums, museum parks, water parks. We have machines that are doing 10 to $15,000 a month. Okay, but average is $1,000. I would say average is about $3,000 or $4,000. Oh, okay. Average or median?

Okay. Median is probably about that range, though. There's a lot of outlier. Okay, okay. Cool. Three to $4,000 a month. All right. I can rock with that.

Four grand a month, making $1,000 a week, selling Robo Cotton Candy. Okay. So can you supply all these machines to these people want to buy them? Okay, so you have the supply. All right, so then what, again,

is the constraint here? It's getting enough businesses who want for us to put the machine. We have entrepreneurs who want to buy it, but they don't want to buy it unless they have a location. We need to find locations. They need to find the location.

They need to find the location. So that's what we've been doing. But that's the main constraint. If we could find them locations, A, we could charge for it, and then B, maybe you just take it ourselves with a good location. Well, that's what I'm saying. It's like if they, like, the value of the entrepreneur is that they front capital and work. Yeah.

If you just find the location, then you should just own the location, right? Like, why bother the heaven them there? It's like, why split it? Usually we're looking for locations in their areas because it's, a servicing thing, right? Like, I don't want to have to hire a new guy in Connecticut for one location, right? To service the Robocondy machine. Yeah, it takes a lot of service.

Okay, fine. But what we do actually is we take a percent of revenue that their machine makes on the day service. So that's the second line of business. Okay, got it. I love this business, dude. Okay, cool. So you just need to go generate leads for businesses that want to make money for no

dollars down, and you're having trouble with that? Yeah. figuring out. How are you advertising? Okay, we tried cold ads, like LinkedIn didn't work, meta didn't work.

The only thing you've really... Bro. Hold on. Hold on. Calling the businesses or emailing them. Okay. All right.

Okay. So emailing is working. I'm not even going to touch the first statement that you said, because I just want to light my hair on fire. Okay, I'm going to go off for a second, then we're going to circle back

to this email thing. For everyone, if you run meta ads, and it didn't work. It doesn't mean that meta ads don't work for your thing. It means that your meta ads and your conversion process didn't work. Not that meta ads don't work. Okay.

Rant over. Back to you. E-mailing people and then asking them if they want free money has gotten response rates. All right. So what are the metrics of our outbound funnel for our robocond candy business? Walk me through the funnel. It's a really easy thing to sell. Okay.

You send 100 emails and you get two to three responses and you'll close basically anyone responds. So let's just say, let's get really conservative here and say that you close one out of 100, 100 emails. Yes, sure. Okay, great. So one out of 100 emails.

Okay, and what's the cost of a machine? About 15,000. But again, they're not in the show. I don't have an issue funding. 15,000. Okay, what do you make on a $15,000 machine up front? 50%. All right, so then what stops you from sending

10,000 emails a day? One of the things I'm working. I'm working on doing that, And building a cold calling business upside. Is that you said? Yeah, exactly. Those are the two that worked the best. Yeah.

I mean, like, this is a great business. How can I help? You're like, I send 100 emails, which takes two seconds, and I make $7,500. Yeah. You know, something that's a lot easier. My main focus has been for the past couple weeks, has been the cold calling aspect. How do you help bring people on? How do you train them to do this?

I watched the video yesterday you made is like an hour-long presentation about like BDRs to like the ratio of those people to sales people

because you kind of like just walking through like a setup you would have or something like this because right now we're set up control the entire funnel

they finally they contact them and it's messaged there's not enough things in the pipeline because people are busy closing deals essentially

everything is good man that you just have you have a process that works and you haven't scaled it up yet I mean the returns on this are stupid Yeah. It's insane. It's ridiculous.

So like you're winning. It's like you ought to hire some headcount. Okay. It's like every SDR can probably bring like, I mean, my God, dude. I mean, this is absurd. I don't even know. I don't even know where to start me. It's like, I mean, we just have to, like, you have to warm up domains. You have to have multiple domains. We have to send, we have to get to a thousand emails a day. We're going to inbound 20-ish qualified leads. Those 25 qualified leads are going to talk to one setter. And you can have one. one closer. Like, you don't need, like, you don't even need to have an army to make this thing

make crazy money. Let's say you had a team of four setters, one closer, from this model. Like, four setters, Jesus, four setters,

you could get to 10,000 emails a day. So you get 100 leads a day. I'm glad you said that. So I think our problem is, it's the opposite. We have four closers, and we actually get to have a tingle setter. Well,

then they got to work their leads. Yeah. They hook their own food, so to speak, is what we say. No, but I'm saying like, you need to, basically, let me say it this way, they have to hunt their leads. You can hand them some leads that you generate from email outbound.

And do it as a round robin, first come first serve, first person who grabs it as soon as you put it in. So would you hire someone specifically for outbound for email and all the same person? Like, how would you go about growing that? Like the pipeline itself, the very beginning. Well, the thing is, is that right now, given the side, like, if the closed rate on these deals is already so high, you could have the closures just work these leads. So basically everything that's email inbound, just hand them straight to a closer, and boom, they close the deal.

Right, that's all it is. Now, they still have to work their phones and go get deals for themselves, and that's fine. Like, our closers still do two hours outbound every day because it keeps the short sharp, and it keeps them appreciating the leads that we send. Interesting. Okay. Now, SDRs, though, dude, I mean, you could get a list of just business owners work that. And there's also, I mean, right now there's the AI dialers are getting, exceptionally good, especially for this type of thing. But you could even do this old school. And so

fundamentally, either you're going to install SDR team or you can have an AI SDR team. You have so much opportunity. You have four sales guys. I would, like my immediate next to action is I'm only going to give you one, is that I would go from 100 emails to, I would say I'd go to 5,000 emails a day instead of 100. That's what I would focus on. All my focus is how do we go from 100 to 5,000 emails a day? Would you do it or would you have then? I would do it. You can automate most of this stuff. You don't need them to do it. It can come from their account, but they're not doing it. That's it. You literally need high level email automation with some AI personalization on the front end, warm up the domain, set up multiple names, one for each guy, probably have backups as well. To send the emails to them, each guy gets 10-ish plus leads a day from these emails, closes six, and you're at, dude, you're at a lot. Okay, copy that. I appreciate it. That was for Mosey Hotline.

So appreciate you all. Peace and blessings be upon you. Rock and roll. Provide value. And don't break the law. Bye.