The Game with Alex Hormozi - The Game of Relationships & Choosing Wisely | Ep 682

Episode Date: April 22, 2024

“Even if both of you compromise, you're not enjoying the thing that you're compromising on.” Today, Alex (@AlexHormozi) explores the intricacies of relationships, emphasizing self-awareness, compatibility, and mutual respect as foundations for a thriving partnership. He highlights the importance of personal growth, breaking away from societal expectations in mate selection, and the crucial role of understanding and appreciating diversity in dating and relationships.Welcome to The Game w/Alex Hormozi, hosted by entrepreneur, founder, investor, author, public speaker, and content creator Alex Hormozi. On this podcast you’ll hear how to get more customers, make more profit per customer, how to keep them longer, and the many failures and lessons Alex has learned on his path from $100M to $1B in net worth.Timestamps:(0:29) - Navigating the complexities of dating and relationships(1:37) - Understanding and appreciating diversity in relationships(3:33) - The importance of compatibility and shared goals in marriage(6:13) - Embracing pragmatism and realistic expectations in love(9:24) - The power of being brutally honest in relationships(15:57) - Avoiding common pitfalls in marriages and embracing appreciation(20:44) - Optimizing relationship dynamics through understanding and compromise(22:29) - Thoughts on prioritizing in relationshipsFollow Alex Hormozi’s Socials:LinkedIn | Instagram | Facebook | YouTube | Twitter | Acquisition

Everything's important, but some things are still more important than others. And if you can't get clear on what the priorities are for you, then how the fuck do you expect your spouse or your partner or the person you're dating to figure out to figure out? Welcome to the game where we talk about how to sell more stuff to more people in more ways and build businesses worth owning. I'm trying to build a billion dollar thing with Acquisition.com. I always wished Bezos, Musk, and Buffett had documented their journey,

so I'm doing it for the rest of us. Please share and enjoy. If I were single and starting over, this is how I'd find my Layla. my dad told me this when I was single. He said, everyone has a type and you'll date plenty of people who are that type. But the chances are that you're not going to marry your type because if you were, then you wouldn't have a type, you'd have a wife. And I found that really interesting because if you keep dating the same type of person and you're like, this is my type, then it is probably a good signal that that type of person isn't the person you end up with because you still keep dating

them. So like if you have been dating one type of person, then you finally get with somebody else and it's very different. It doesn't necessarily mean that's bad. If anything, it might actually be the type of person you end up marrying. And I just find that as a really interesting frame for thinking through mate selection. Because a lot of times I feel like earlier on, we date people who fill one clear role or one clear look, especially when you're younger. It's just, I mean, at least for me, it was just like, how hot is this person or whatever? But over time, you realize that like you date someone a little bit on the edge and you're like, oh, I liked all these other things that the people I'm

normally does you don't have it. Then all of a sudden you start branching into very different types of people and kind of in some ways appreciating because I would say I've dated a more diverse selection of people than I've been friends with. Well, I would say friends, like anyone's friends with me is very narrowly interested in certain types of things. But people I dated, I was willing to date people were far outside of that kind of sphere of competence. And so even though I currently now married to somebody who is in that sphere of like business and hardcore and all that stuff, I feel like I got a big appreciation for lots of different cultures ethnically, but also like psychographs of like deeply religious people. Like I've dated

people who were deeply religious before. And so I have a really good appreciation for that. And so I wouldn't have had that exposure had I not been willing to kind of break the type. I tend to date really kind people, like really good people. I think I have an exceptional girl picker or not as like basically all the women that I dated as an adult are exceptional human beings. And I still hope they do awesome. And I really genuinely wish them the best. I don't have like, really any malice towards anyone that I dated. I think being able to pick and judge people is one of the most valuable skills you can ever develop. And it's one of the hardest ones to develop because it takes pattern recognition and getting burned. And so again, like judging people, I'm going to

lean into this. Like judging people is fine. The difference is you have to assess someone. How are you going to assess them without judging them? The difference is calling them good or bad. Like getting an accurate assessment of who someone is or what they do is totally fine and it's human to do that. think it's necessary. And to this idea of like, you should never judge anyone. It's like, you should judge everyone. You just don't necessarily need to measure yourself against them. And I feel like that's the gap.

But back to the judging thing, I feel like you're only going to be able to recognize patterns if you put yourself out there and you're willing to have terrible first dates and terrible second dates for an extended period of time. Because you might find out that there's like a whole set of character traits that you didn't even know were important to you. And then you find them. And you're like, whoa, this is now way more important than all these. the other stuff that I used to think was important. And so I only found that stuff out because

like it's really hard to even hear podcasts like this and be like, okay, well, what would I do this? Like it is just exposure. Thankfully, I was exposed to lots of people. And doesn't mean you have to like, you can make judgments on people even outside of a romantic relationship of like, man, I'd like this person that I worked with. Like, what are the traits that I like about this person? And trying to like really pinpoint those. Like I learned that I really liked a woman who respected me and who followed traditional gender roles. Those are things that are super important to me that I didn't know were important to me, I only found that out kind of later. I needed someone who does not get in the way of my goals, interference. If I had somebody who was felt like I was taking by pursuing my

goals, I knew it would never work long term because I can't have my entire life be a take for somebody else. I'll never be able to flip that balance. So like I need someone who literally doesn't even see it as a take. Not somebody who's like, you can take as much as you want. That still doesn't work because the paradigm's wrong. They have to see it as a give. They have to see me. me working as fulfilling my duty to our household. And I want them to judge me on that. And so making sure that the person you're with judges you by the metrics that you judge yourself on. And so you might be spending all this time and effort optimizing towards what you think you should be judged on. But if they're judging you on completely different metrics, you're screwed. You'll never win.

And so there's always going to be this huge disconnect, this huge gap where they're like, you could be doing more. And you're like, how can I possibly do more? But it's because you're actually judging against different outcomes. And so making sure that the things that they expect of you and the things that you expect of you are the same. And then they should be supporting you because they want those things from you too. And then that way you can work in synergy towards what you're trying to accomplish together rather than feeling there's always this give take. Because like really, really super honestly, like Layla and I don't really have a give take relationship. We both just like want the same thing. And so we both try really hard. I mean, Layla's self-claimed biggest fear is that

she doesn't want to let me down. She just want me to think that she could have worked harder. And I mean, the same degree, like, I never want her to think I could have done more or I could have worked harder or I left anything on the field. And so I think that's been a source of mutual respect is that we're both harder on ourselves than the other person is on us. And so we're always outdoing the other person's expectations because we're both assessing on the the same metrics. Let's think about it this way. If you want to be the ultimate husband, find a woman who loves all the things that you currently do. Way less work than trying to change everything about who you are to match what they want from you. And so I think if you're looking

at spouses, Warren Buffett has this famous speech they talks about. It's like, what's the number one characteristic that you want in a spouse? And people are like, attractive, intelligent, hardworking, blah, blah, blah. And he said, expectations and I just wholeheartedly agree with that. Now there's low expectations on a macro level which is they expect nothing of you. One degree separated from that is that they expect what you already are. And so it's low effort even if they have high expectations. And I would say that that's probably where Layla and I fall in that camp is that we both have exceedingly high expectations. It's just that we expect one another to do the things that

we already do. Like Layla has joked about this where I'm going to be politically incorrect here, but she was like, if I gained a hundred pounds, she's like, Alex would divorce me. And I would say there's a caveat to that, which is why. But if it was just like she let herself go and just like no longer valued her health or working hard or eating well or any of those things or her appearance, probably because it would be an outward indicator of an internal change. And so we both believe in conditional love, not unconditional. And I think everyone wants unconditional love. from someone else, but is never willing to give unconditional love anyways. And so rather than kind of playing to the Hollywood romantic version of love,

we are both very pragmatic. And I would say, like, as a character trait for somebody that I had to be with, like they have to be pragmatic. They have to be realistic. Otherwise, I would have too many conflicts with them. And so even be able to say, like, yeah, if you gained weight, a ton of weight, we probably wouldn't stay together because there's other things that would happen as a result of that.

and to the same degree of me. Now, I, for her, she just, honestly, I'm more in shape than she prefers. She's like, you're borderline two cut. She's like, if you want to just get bigger, I'm fine with that. I just like, I like to still see my abs and stuff. And so that's, you know, whatever. She's not upset about it. And so we were just like, these are our agreements.

These are the things that I expect of you. And if you want to make this a fun exercise, just say, tell me what a perfect day for you would look like from me. Like, what would happen in that perfect? day. And then that's the make my wife or make my husband happy checklist. And then just do those every day. That's it. If it's like, hey, if you give me a note every morning, that would be amazing. Like, we're talking crazy, perfect world. And if you made my lunch, and if you rub my shoulders when I got back, and if you talk to me about like my day in terms of like business stuff,

that would be a perfect day, whatever, right? Then you hand that. And if the person that you're with looks at that and is like this is impossible. The thing is is that there's somebody else who that is super not impossible at all. And so rather than try and force the person that you're with to be someone that you want to be with, just find someone who already is that way. At least that's what's worked well for us is the amount of times I was in relationships where the things that they wanted me to do, I was like, this isn't me. Like I can expend effort to do this, but I don't want to on a forever basis because I will resent you. But the thing is that there's a another guy who would love to do that and probably does it on his own and they should marry him.

And so I think just being like really, really brutally honest about what do you really want out of me? And what do you expect? Like what's a 10 out of 10 husband look like to you? And if it matches what I already do or what I'm planning to do, then it makes both of our lives a lot easier. Because I'm going to work my ass off on what I already want to do and it will just so happen to fulfill all of your desires. Great. But I think way too many people spend time in this like compromise zone. where neither person gets what they want.

Even if both of you compromise, you're not enjoying the thing that you're compromising on. They're getting a worse version of what they ideally want. And you're just walking out this kind of middle path when I think both people could be better served by being brutally honest up front and being okay with somebody being an amazing person, just not their amazing person.

One of the biggest things that I hate about romance advice and relationship advice in general in the whole space, which is why I try not to touch it, is that there is no objective measure. for a relationship billionaire. So like somebody else can be married or in a relationship and I make a piece of content and they're like, well, you're fucking wrong because of X, Y, and Z. And I'm like, things is that there's no way that anyone externally can see how healthy a relationship

is internally. And so that's what I think makes it so hard about the space. Because the only success metric we have is not divorced. And sure is shit, the vast majority of marriages that I see, I would not want at all. And so it just makes it very hard to learn because there's also a lot of people who make it work. There's the people who just stay in miserable marriages because they just stay in and they're used to it. And then there's the people who I think are like they make it work. But the make it work, for me, I feel like there's another version of this which is like it doesn't have to be a ton of work if you find people who like what you already like.

It's all about direction of change. So if the person that you're with wants you to grow, the growth direction should be towards more of what I'm already going towards versus different. So if Layla came to me was like, I really want you to get good at dancing. I'd be like, I mean, is it growth? Is it a new scale set? Maybe. But it's not important to me at all. Nor might have any inherent interest in it. And so totally legitimate for her to have that desire. But if that's a real like non-negotiable for her, she should find someone who likes dancing and start there. Mosy Nation, real quick, if you are a business owner that has a big old business and wants to get to a much bigger business, going to $50, $100 million plus, we would love to talk to you. And if you like that, we would like to hear more about it, go to acquisition.com.

You can apply anywhere on the page and talk to one of our team and see if we can help you get there. And so I think you have these list of things that are non-negotiables. And this is one I hear all the time is like, this is a non-negotiable for me. Like they have to want to have kids. And I'm like, okay, well, this guy doesn't want to have kids and you've been dating him for a year. or two years. So either it's negotiable or it's not negotiable. If it's not negotiable, that means that every other thing could be perfect and you still won't be with them. Which means that it'd be really hard to leave because everything else will be perfect. But if it's truly

non-negotiable, then it means the moment you find out you leave. And I would freak girls out in the beginning on like first-dace and stuff. And I'd just be like, I'm looking for a wife. I'm looking for a partner. Now, ironically, when Layla and I met, I actually said the opposite. I was like, I'm not looking for anything. And she was like, that's fine. I'm done. I was like, I work all the time. Because I came in, because I just gotten out of a long relationship, I was like, I was had no desire to get back into one. So I just was like, here's all the things that suck about me. I was like, I work too much. I drink probably too much and too often. I'm obsessive about these things. This is all I'm dedicated towards. I live really sparsely. And if those things are

problems for you, then we should probably just call it a day, no big deal. But she was like, those are fine. And I was like, okay. And so like day one, that was. It was kind of the bar. It was already set. And so as long as you're honest in that first day one, realtors should be advertising the negative aspects of a property to allow people to make better decisions. And so if you say, hey, it's, you know, I'm next to the pub area. Then for some people, that's going to be a no-go zone. But for somebody who likes the nightlife, then it's going to be a pro. But all realtors do is talk about the plus sides. But what you really want is the arbitrage between something that you are fine with that would, quote, devalue your property.

that someone else isn't fine with. And that's where the mismatches or the better matches actually happen. And so I think to the same degree people could approach dating that way, which is rather than say all the good things, like, I'm hardworking, I'm in shape, whatever. State all the downsides. Because if all of your downsides, someone's like, those things don't bother me, that becomes a very strong relationship or has the makings of a strong relationship. Because then there's all the things that everyone is complained about of you, if they're cool with it, then they only get upside. If I'm fine with being on the bars when it's late,

next to the metro, even though there's noise, because I work from an office and I'm not home during the day, if I'm a, you know, I'm a guy and I'm not worried about being in a rougher neighborhood because no one's going to, you know, necessarily approach me versus a single girl who's 100 pounds, then that house, my match with that house is probably a good deal for me. I'm going to probably get a steel on the house. And so you want to get a steel on a partner.

It's like all these things is what other people were bothered about fuck. I love all this shit or I'm fine with all of it. Like you work too much. Cool, me too. We'll work together. People kind of like that I'm like kind of particular about what I eat and like I want to stay in shape. Cool. Me too. Awesome. And so just take all the negatives and find somebody who thinks those negatives or at least neutral. And then like how much effort are you put in the relationship? You're just being you. And they just like you for you. And I think that's way more about like what is liking someone from who they are. It's that. And it's not like, I don't think it's this whole journey of like they suck at these things, accept them. It's more like everyone else thinks this suck about them, but I'm cool with it. I think

that's a much stronger frame. Also, super helpful, if you ever are in a relationship, go through, we went through a divorce, basically for a seminar for couples on the edge of divorce. And it was done through the church. We weren't religious, but I still think all the things they teach are still good. There's honestly, it's bummer because like so many really amazing seminars are put on by like the Christian community overall, probably the Jewish community too. I'm sure other ones do, was just the ones I know of. Unfortunately, some of the non-religious ones tend to get really woo-woo and like really like energy and just like complete nonsense talk that I found more value from the kind of traditional religious teachings in terms of how to manage relationships.

Anyways, we went to this seminar for marriages on the bring of divorce. And it was so helpful for us because we were fine, but we wanted to see like, what are all the things we should not do? And kind of like Charlie Munger's like, okay, what are all the things it takes to destroy a relationship? Okay, let's do the opposite of that. It's like, don't lie to your partner. Don't cheat on your partner. There's definitely some controversial stuff around, you know, don't go where it's slippery. If you like going to strip clubs and you're married, you can probably go there and it'll be okay.

It's just there's a higher likelihood than normal that something bad happens. If you have problems with substances, don't do them. Number one reason for breaking up is lack of appreciation. So, okay, let's go out of our way purposely to appreciate one another for things that we do every day. Because that's where it gets tough is like, someone makes you dinner every night. After the third year of getting dinner every night on your thousandth dinner, sometimes you forget to say thank you. But they still put the same work in to get to the dinner.

And so it's remembering that they're still honoring the work they put in with the appreciation you give. And so making sure that we gave regular appreciation. And financial hardship is a big one. And so obviously that's one that we focused really hard on to make sure that that wasn't one of the issues. And so I think when we look through those lenses, is like, what are all the things that destroy relationships and destroy marriages, just saying, okay, well, how do we avoid those? And if you do that, you kind of like win by default. The cool thing about, like, is not manipulation if the intention is to help. And so I see the difference

of manipulation and help as intention, which is like, if you have bad intentions for the person, you are manipulating them. If you have good intention for the person, you are helping them. But either way, you change the behavior. And so if you want someone to do more of something, then it's just rewarding rapidly, whatever they do. Like, Leila likes me taking the trash out or whatever. And so she said, you know, thanks for doing that enough times that I just like, I do it whenever. Like if it's ever by the door, I take it out when I'm on my way out. Little things, you know. And the thing is when I get back, she's like, thanks so much for doing that.

And it's like, that's worth it for me. I'm like, sure. Now if she's like, she's like at her with her girls like, oh yeah, I got Alex to take the trash out because I say, thank you every single time he does it. Like, is that manipulation? Yeah, sure, I guess. But I mean, I don't mind. Honestly, getting the appreciation of my wife is worth a 30 second trip. It's not.

honestly, it's the easiest appreciation I got. I'm like, look how much buddy we made this month. She's like, but you took the trash out. That meant a lot. I'm kidding. She cares way more about the money. Otherwise, we'd have a terrible. We'd have a tough time, but she didn't.

When I met Layla, Layla was a personal trainer. You know what I mean? And then she became, you know, the best salesperson. And then she became the best sales manager. And then she became the operator of the company. She just is always, like, the number one thing that I love about Layla is that she's so coachable. Like, she's so malleable.

she's just willing to adapt to anything. And she's so able to deal with hardship for an extended period of time. Like she can suffer, unlike most people. Like she can just suffer for a very long period of time. Now for her, we think about like some of these fitness things. Like she took her like two years to lose 100 pounds. And so she talks about it a lot where she's like, I learned that you could just keep doing the same thing that sucks for a very long period

of time and then get where you want to go. And so I think she learned the like the long suffering. earlier than me. And so I learned that from her, just the willingness to just like endure. I was still, like, my wins had still been faster than hers had been. And so I learned that from her. It's a lot of like rewarding for effort wherever I see it, because I just know. Especially when you're at the top of a company, not many people give you praise. And the praise that you get, people feel like, well, everybody tells you you're great all day long. But the thing is, it comes from people that take this way, I mean it, don't mean anything to you. And so,

So like, Trevor says this, he says, you want important things said from important people. You know, importance relative. It's important to you. But like, the person whose opinion matters the most of me is hers. Like hers carries the most weight. So if she's like, you crush that, it means a lot more to me than 500,000 strangers saying I crushed it. Because if she said it, then like, she knows what I'm capable of. Whereas for many people who don't know you, anything that's better than what they would do,

they would consider a success. but their bar is much lower than mine is. And so she knows what my bar is, and she has a high bar too. And so that's why it matters more. Like the reason that she's probably not writing a book anytime is because she knows how much work I put into it. And she's like, I'm afraid it's not going to be as good as one of yours.

Rightfully so. Not from lack of effort, but I just have, I have so many years of I've already put into it. On the flip side, she's so much better at running a company. She's so much better at leading. She's so much better at managing. She's so much better at interacting with people, selling ideas to the team.

I'm great at selling ideas to the public. She's great at selling ideas to the team. And so completely different skill set. And so, and like when she does great stuff with the team, like I just appreciate her on all the stuff that she does. I would say that for me, appreciation, believe or not, actually comes really easily in romantic relationships.

Like, showering with praise. Like I've always been good at that. Do other stuff like gifts. Fuck. You know, like acts of service, tougher for me. But like telling you did a good job, I'm your guy. She doesn't judge me or my love for her. based on those things because she knows that that's not me. Now, it's probably a good middle example of like,

well, how do you compromise? Right? Because like, she likes that stuff. I don't care about it at all. So she just made it really easy for me to win. And so rather than be like, you need to care about me this way, this is one of my love languages. She's like, well, how do I make it so that he can't lose? And so she's taking that next step for me. She just like puts a six inch put there. And then I, oh, and she's like, you're amazing. I'm like, you know, thanks. But she sets it up and, you know, equal opposite, right, on the things that matter most to me. And so I think, I think that's also one. I talk about this term of rounding up, but within the relationship, one of the things that's really valuable is if I say something and there's two ways you can take it, one way that really pisses you off and one way

that's fine, I meant the other one. Like, just round up for me. Like, we're on the same team. And it's a good, like, trigger in the moment of like round up. Like, I meant this way. But I think that that little compromise thing has been helpful because she's like, I just want the thing. And I want him to give it to me. But I also want, she's like, I also want all these other things from him. And if I want these other things from him, then something has to give. And I'm more willing to give on this than I am on that. And so even within the people that we date, we should still have priorities of like, what is the most important?

What's second most important? And if you're like, well, they're all important, then it means that you need to clarify our priorities because everything can't be a priority. This is literally strategy in business. Everything's important, but some things are still more important than others. And if you can't get clear on what the priorities are for you, then how the fuck do you expect your spouse or your partner or the person you're dating to figure out what's important for you if you can't even figure it out? And so if you're clear on, here's my checklist of tactics that mean a lot to me.

And then here's my checklist on goals or character traits or activities that mean a lot to me. If they sacrifice a number three to keep doing number one, you can't be upset about that. Because that was the trade that you decided to make. Now, if they show you some three, awesome. It's gravy. But the number one still has to stay number one. For her, me having big goals and being ambitious, it was the number one thing that she was attracted to. And I was like, good, because that's the thing that's not going to change. Now, these other things, if I have time or I have headspace or I remember, I do them. But I also forget all the time. I forgot her birthday the first

year we were married. I also forgot mine. Everyone's like, I can't believe you would do that to your wife. I was like, I also did it to me. I like me too. So like, what does that say? So it's making sure you understand the tradeoffs you're making and then not being upset after the fact at the price tag for the nikes that you chose to buy. It costs 500 bucks. Either get the nikes or don't complain about the price. You can't have both. If you have a lower priority thing, then make it way less effort for them to do it. If words of affirmation meant a lot to me, for example, like it really meant a lot to me, then I would probably give her a list of all the things she could say to me. And then I would set up an automated text thing to text

every morning something she can text me. I'm dead serious. If it meant a lot to me, that's what I do. And so I think people are like, well, that ruins the novelty of the romance of it. I was like, I don't think so because you'll forget that you set it up, but you'll feel it every day when you get the text. You know what I mean? And so, yeah, I think people make it way too hard on their on their partners to win. I think priorities means that prior, one thing comes first. Like if you just look at the root of the word, one thing comes above the other. When Layla and I met, I told her that business comes first before our relationship. Three, four years in, I switched it because we both realized that it worked better. If we were happy, we actually did better in business. But like at the beginning,

I said that and she understood that. And so if it was date night or we have to finish this thing, it's we finish this thing. And then we mutually agreed to change the rules or change the priorities. And so again, I think the thing is like, if someone is attracted to you because of X, Y, and Z trait, those traits come with tradeoffs. And they can't say that they want the fruit of your labor without being willing to have you put the labor in. If you want that, marry a trust fund kid. but then also be willing to do with the fruit of being a trust fund kid, which is somebody who's entitled, who expects everything immediately, who probably everything was handed to them, they don't understand hardship.

Like, those are going to be the tradeoffs for that. That's why the whole mismatched house thing is so important. It's like, say all the things that most people wouldn't like. And if the person that you're with is cool with those things, then you can live a much easier life together because what most people see as downsides, they see as upsides or neutrals. and it just makes it very easy to win.