The Game with Alex Hormozi - The Hard Truth About Growth Most Founders Avoid. Hormozi Hotline feat. Leila Hormozi | Ep 918

Episode Date: December 10, 2025

Welcome to The Game w/Alex Hormozi, hosted by entrepreneur, founder, investor, author, public speaker, and content creator Alex Hormozi. On this podcast, you’ll hear how to get more customers, make more profit per customer, how to keep them longer, and the many failures and lessons Alex has learned and will learn on his path from $100M to $1B in net worth.Wanna scale your business? ⁠⁠⁠⁠Click here.⁠⁠⁠⁠Follow Alex Hormozi’s Socials:⁠⁠⁠⁠LinkedIn ⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠⁠Instagram⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠⁠Facebook⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠⁠YouTube ⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠⁠Twitter⁠⁠⁠⁠ | ⁠⁠⁠⁠Acquisition ⁠

Guys, I have a special, special treat for you. This has only happened one other time in human history. This is historic. So you guys are going to get this. And it's come from downtown Vegas. My lovely wife, Lady Layla herself, Queen Lay, is coming to join us and spit some fire on Ramosey Hotline. And we're going to be taking the recalls together. First of all, thank you for this opportunity.

Thank you. So, yeah. My name is Joshua. I run a performance-based marketing agency called Asynetex for Kitchen and Vaffirming Models and Auto Living Company. Currently at 8K pool months, profit at 7K, we work on a paper show model and position for high-end projects, so not like discounts, et cetera,

without retainers or advent on their ads. So we take the risk, though. Right now it costs me around. Yeah, right now it costs me around $250 to require customer on the last that's where I ran the app I have a $1,000 setup fees and I charge 500 to 600 dollars per qualified appointment show to get them one opponent show yeah to get them one appointment show it costs at the worst time like I'm aiming for 210 if I don't get them at least 10 opponents in the first month I refund them the

set up fee now currently to let you know I do have two clients on this but I I have three other clients still and three services, which I kept for cash flow, because that's what I ran before. And my question is from just what I told you guys now and from your experience, what do you see, which I currently don't see? So what would you do in my position to absolutely like scale this or maybe do differently? Are you keeping the customers? Oh, no. until I'm basically I wanted to keep them until I'm at 10k sufficiently in the leveling and then completely ditch so the question was I mean I don't think you should cut your cash flow you have you only have like four

customers right currently at five okay so you have five customers and that means that if you're doing eight thousand dollars a month you said 8000 top line 7000 bottom line but you said your cost of getting a show is 210 on 500. Those margins don't make sense. What am I missing? So for the 8k, I'm not basically counting in the $200, which is lost. It's just counting in the 300. The one guy I'm currently onboarding, so I only have one guy currently on it. Yeah, the other guy is currently on boarding. And when you say guys on onboarding, you mean a client? Yeah. The one company, I'm currently onboarding to get them into the $5,000 thing. I got his $1,000 setup fee basically.

He's not actively involved with the... Yeah. I'm looking to scale this now, but... Yeah. I mean, go for it. I know you're gonna say what you're gonna say what you're gonna say. Well, I was just thinking that we have to run some more water through the well. So I need to get more data.

You need to, yeah, you need to get more data. I mean, at that point that sample size is so small. I think we need to focus on getting a bigger sample size. Mm-hmm. And then we can go from there. I understand. Well, what would you say? What is just your opinion about the model, the offer?

You know, I'm running it because all other agencies are basically running the paper appointment. And yeah, they, you know, and they pay for the ads. But like the trust is really low in that market. So I was thinking about it in that. Dude, I think everything's fine. I think everything's fine. Okay. I'd say one risk that I see this relatively,

significant is your cost per show relative to the revenue per show is kind of low. I would say the guys who I see like really murder it are at like 20%. So you're at like 60. Sorry, 40. So I want to see if we could drive that down because my fear of the business is that when you take this to scale, you'll be less efficient and your margins are going to compress. That's like, I would say like that's kind of like my biggest red flag. Overall, the model of lead cost and arbitrage, there's nothing wrong with it. I've seen some massive agencies that run that model. The, next issue that you're going to run into is the types of businesses that you're serving. So you're going to want to go upmarket for people who can spend $50,000, $100,000 a month in

ads. That's what you're going to want to go after because the volatility of your business is going to be predicated on the volatility of their business. So when you go after, and this is super common for small business owners for everybody who's listening is like you go after if you go most people who are poor. I'm not saying you're poor, but like most people are starting out in business, go after other people who are also starting out of business. because that's where your confidence level is. But they don't know anything either. Right? So it's the blind leading the blind and you're like,

what's wrong with my business? All these people are churning and they're churning because they don't know what the hell they're doing in their business either. And so you're going to want to earn the right to go a market as fast as you can. And if you have five clients that pay you what they're paying now versus having five clients and each one pays $100,000 a month, you could run the same ops and have a hundred times the revenue. I was going to say the next thing that you're going to

want to realize is that like we've done the pay per show model and we also had a software that used to enable the pay per show there's two things that you want to watch out for which is one when you're doing pay per show a lot of times the businesses are going to think well if they show but they don't close why the fuck am I paying you and so then you're going to be really tempted to be like can I just help them sell these people I'm just going to also maybe I should start a sales agency and close these motherfuckers that's the next thing that's going to happen the second piece to it and by the way don't do that go upmarket and say because people that are upmarket have their own sales team and they understand that concept that even though you get somebody to show it

doesn't mean that they're guaranteed to close you still have trained salespeople so do not give in to the temptation don't try and serve an avatar that isn't best for you more that's the biggest mistake people make which is like you're serving an avatar that isn't your best avatar and you try to go above and beyond for it you just don't want to do that the second thing is that okay that's like I feel like that's like 2010 the second piece is that with the paper or show model, here's the place where it goes wrong, which I saw firsthand, which is why agencies had churn with it, which is that customers want to be able to predict how much money they're going to spend with you.

So if you look at churn and you look at customer retention, the customers who retain the most are the customers who understand how much they're going to pay. And so one thing that you can do is you can give people a range estimate or you can give them a heads up different times through the month as to how much you're going to be billing them. Now, it seems contrary because you think, okay, well, if I tell them how much they're repaying, they'd be like, oh, my God, that's so much. But the reality is actually, if they get a bill that's unexpected, that is like, it looks, and it's like once you get one unexpected bill from a company, it's like by the second one, there's a 50% likelihood that they're going to turn. So think about how you can communicate with those customers. Maybe it's every other week, maybe it's every week to show them what their tab looks like.

Or by increment of revenue. Yeah, or by increment. That's a great one, too. Yeah, it's just like every 5,000 area of whatever. every thousand and five thousand they spend, you just automatically, just letting them know that this is happening, we can turn it off whenever you want.

So I think another piece that you could also ask is when you're getting the sale, when you're onboarding them, ask them what their budget is. I know it seems contrary, but it's like if you want to get them to spend more money with you, you also need to show them

that you're okay, spending as much as they're comfortable to start. Does that make sense? And you can coach them up from there once you get buy-in. Yeah, okay. Yeah, that makes sense. I currently, what I currently do is I build like this lovable thing where I put in the numbers,

so close rate, average contract value, et cetera. And basically, I do that on the tails code, so that's a big nugget. That's great. That's great. Because then I can always, like, weekly tell them, like, hey, this is how much you should stand, and that's what you should expect in the long term to get a return. So thank you for that. I mean, if you were me here, how would, like, you think about going from, like, 8K per month for now

to like 50k in the exact model as fast, the problem in opera, as just being sustainably. Dude, this is, we answered it. So I wanna ask you, what do you think we, what do you think we just said? Does I just wanna make sure you routine? I mean that I,

that I need to get more data. And like, just sell more problem. And? And that I should not switch my business model and get done to basically convince me is get them to sell and also make sure that they know how much they get charged. And go up market. And go up market.

Yes. Of market, the one thing I was asked. What do these things about to add it to us? One million above because that I was being in. Just go up. Do you guys have an opinion on? Just go up. Just like in your ads or your outreach, look for people we're doing 10 times those numbers.

Number go up good. Yeah. Big number good. Okay, okay. Cool. Like, you literally have the same size company you have in terms of headcount. Literally just add a zero to what the people that you're trying to attract are, and you will make significantly more money and love your life more. Okay. Cool? Yeah. Thank you.

All right. Rocking. All right. Should I? Should I increase? No, I don't think yet. Dude, it's five people. Yeah. You got to get more water through the well. Also, there's a, like, for everybody listening, like it's like, okay, increase your prices. but like you haven't even gotten to the threshold of delivery. So until you get to a point where delivery is stressed and you can see how your team and how your company operates

when you are stretched when it comes to your client load, do not increase your prices. You increase your prices when you know that your product and your delivery is rock solid. So we got to get more water through the pipes first. Okay, I got it. Thank you very much. I appreciate you.

Next caller? Next caller. Hello? Hi. Yeah, super nervous right now, but thank you for the call. You should be terrified. What if I'm nervous? Yeah.

My name is Jazz. I run Winnipeg Digest. It's a local newsletters slash media company. Okay. An audience of 110,000 people in Winnipeg. Sweet. So that's about 70,000 on socials, 40,000 news letter list in the last 18 months. That's awesome.

We right now do, yeah, thank you. We do about $10,000 in revenue right now, 6,000 profit through local advertising. Is that per month or per year? That's per month. Okay. And then six, we currently have six annual advertisers, mostly paying about $1,000 per month, with two paying $2,000 per month.

And then the rest of the revenue comes from single one-off ads. My question is a little two parts. So the first one is, how do I scale to a million without running out of local advertisers in the future, which I'm afraid of, or running into a supply constraint because we only send out 12 newsletters per month. So basically we have 12 primary.

No, we send our 12 users for a month. So it's three per week. Okay, got it. Every Monday, Wednesday, and stuff. And these are digital, right? Yeah, these are digital emails. Yeah, got it, very good. Okay.

Yeah. And are you? Yeah, so that's my question. Yeah, so I would not be worried about running out of advertisers. There's 110,000 people in the city. You can for sure get enough advertisers. That's not an issue. So put that one away.

you running out of at space is more more possible so you have how many people are you yeah so we have 40,000 on the list the city is a million people so the city is a million people the 110,000 is what our audience size is so it's 70,000 on social media

oh word you have so much room you have so much room so much room yeah so that's kind of so okay so if I have I have room, then kind of from a rowing perspective, then I'm afraid that we'll run out of ad space. So we'll run into a supply. No, you're not going to run out of ad space. You're going to have to make sure that your price of your CPMs appropriately. So said differently, if you have, you know, 250,000 of the people out of the million in the city on your newsletter, you could charge a truck.

I mean, every ad would be, you'd be, you know, $100,000. Like, it would be a lot. You know what I'm saying? Okay. So, yeah. So the space itself, obviously, you have limited, you don't want to send your entire newsletter is just all ads, right? That's not going to work. The way that media scales is via impressions and quality of impressions.

And so you can try more for the same space. That's what you have to do. So it's like, how do I steal this business? You get more eyeballs. But it's like there's not that, or like, I don't know if there's enough businesses that can pay me $200, like $100,000 per ad, you know? In the door for sure businesses, well, again, you're. you're selling 12 ads a month. A thousand dollars a month in advertising is not.

Like many businesses can do that. Many businesses can do five or ten. Mm-hmm. My dad used to run, my dad's local business owner, right? He used to spend $10,000 or $15,000 to be in, like, Baltimore Digest or something, or Baltimore's, whatever.

It's like one magazine per month went out. He'd spend $15,000 to be in that thing for like a half page. Right. Mm-hmm. Okay, yeah, so that kind of, that kind of semi, I guess that kind of answers my second question too, which was like it was either, okay, should I expand to new cities, stay in the current one, but niche down. So let's say go start another one, but say Winnipeg Real Estate Digest or something, right? Or just keep.

I want you to keep stealing this. I do not think it's worth you splitting, splitting your attention right now. I think you have way more, way more impressions to capture. The other piece that you want to consider here, though, is like, you're sending a newsletter. It's like, are there other places you can, like, you have 70K on social. It's like, we can charge for posts, we can charge for stories, we can charge for YouTube video iterations, we can charge for news. I would rather you do all that stuff first before even considering niche down for now. Okay, but what you would say the next step would be to niche down after like a third case.

No, I don't even want you to think about niching down. I want you just do more. You need way more. Okay, okay. And then, okay. And from an acquisition standpoint of subscribers, we are currently running Facebook ads and acquiring subscribers as like $1.40. Okay. So that's correct. So my question then is, do we continue to scale Facebook ads? Because right now it takes about like three months to break even on a subscriber. Okay. So you already know. Yeah. I mean, that's fine. Yeah. Okay. And so keep dealing Facebook ads and social. Yeah. You could also sell people longer, you know, periods of time on the front end. Mm-hmm.

And is there, and is there like a front-end offer? Like, because I know a lot of people in the States try and, try and achieve like negative costs for acquiring a subscriber, right? So having some sort of a front-end offer, would you say I should still continue to just push B2B advertising or? You can push me to be advertising as you do your Facebook ads for people often for the newsletter. just have something called an SLO, which is self-liquitting offer on the thank you page. Okay. Do you have anything on the thank you page that you sell them?

No, nothing right now. I'm about to change your life. I'm about to change your life. You ready? Yeah. I want you to offer a 10-pack of Guide to Winnipeg's best restaurants, guide to Winnipeg's best new spots, guide to Winnipeg's best ski,

best dessert, best dessert. Like literally, Just put 10 different kind of like magazines, do it was. Make that 10 pack like $37. Put it on the thank you page. If you can get one out of 37 people to buy it, your cost of the acquisition is zero, and then you can scale the thing to the fucking movie.

So those would be physical, like physical things. They're like digital diet. You can make a digital. It's fine. Okay, I was literally about to offer that for free in our welcome sequence. So there we go. Okay. And yeah, okay, no, I think that. kind of answers.

I feel like we just, I feel like that was pretty good. Yeah. I mean, no, that was crazy. Thank you. No, like,

I mean, I've been, I've been, like going back and forth with like, oh, shit, I start a Christmas holiday lights

company on top of this. No, dude. No. That sounds fucking awful. No, it sounds horrible. Do more of this. All you had to do

is add a self-liquidding off from the front end. You'll be able to grow the hell out of your media. You can charge more. You can get more advertisers in, done and duck.

You can also, to your, to your, concern, you can also parse your lists, right? So let's see you triple your list size. If for some reason you can't find advertisers you can pay more, which I wholeheartedly reject. But just to show you that you can still be creative here, you can say, I'm going to send 12 emails to these people, 12 emails to these people, and 12 emails to these people. List A, B, and C, because you made the list three times fig, and you can charge that many more times. Okay, got it. That answer is, I think,

all my question. All right. All right. Rock and roll, man. Appreciate you. Thank you. Thank you so much. Bye. You should take this one. What are the questions that were prompting? Yeah, I feel like I smash that one. I'm not going to answer a marketing question, so tell us what the next caller is. Hopefully it's a people question. They're like, people, they're alive. Anything but marketing?

Yeah, anything but marketing? I can help answer. I'm not going to do. What's up, guys? What's up? Hey. Tell me about this. Yeah, sir.

I run a company where I essentially help remote high ticket sales coaches with their fulfillment by providing job opportunities and then coaching for their students slash clients on best application processes, interview support and prep and things like that. So you, which part of the delivery do you do? Can you hear me? What part of the delivery do you do? So I like post the job opportunities inside of their community. And then I do group coaching calls once a week with some of the clients. And then DM support answering people's questions, reviewing their application videos and things like that. Okay.

What do they do? They're responsible for sales. Yeah. So they're sales coaches. So they're teaching people the sales side of things. And most of them before I come into the business are doing part of the, you know, helping them land jobs, but often are struggling with having enough job opportunities, then they're coaching part of actually teaching people what to do properly to get hired.

Got it. So they're really good at getting the clients. They're not going to getting the clients the opportunities. So you bring them the opportunities. You're responsible for the second funnel. Exactly. Okay. Great. So I guess like the bottleneck that I have is we currently have 45 communities that we work with. Wow. We work on our retainer model. all. We don't charge the businesses anything for the recruitment services. Not really recruitment services. It's just like posting their opportunities in the community. And so the sales coaches pay up to retainer. It's anywhere from two to four thousand dollars a month. And I run the entire business and fulfillment. And so I guess my bottleneck is that the business is not a business. It's me.

Is I'm not going to see for placements when you get them opportunities? No, so it's just like a flat retainer model for providing the job opportunity. You're providing, let me say differently. These guys get jobs at businesses that need salespeople, correct? Yes. So who, those businesses, you just give them people for free? Exactly. So I don't charge the business as anything.

So that that doesn't become a bottleneck, so that I can have as many job opportunities as exist in the world. So it'd be like, I would come to you and say, I need remote salespeople. and you would be like, I'll give you some for free? Yes. So let me know anytime you need sales rights. I mean, I wouldn't do it because I wouldn't believe that you were any good.

Yeah, there's that. Well, we have anywhere from 500 to 600 job opportunities that we post for months. So we've got a lot of people who do trust us. You get what I'm saying. Okay, so what's the problem in the business? We're just that I guess I'm bottlenecked by I have no team. We have 45 clients, and so I'm not sure where to find the right talent, how to incentivize the right talent for the fulfillment side, like coaching, finding the right opportunities. I guess I just don't know what directions to go into scale beyond where we're at currently.

So let me ask you, in the business right now, where do you spend most of your time? Is it on sales? Is it on fulfillment? Like, which piece? Yeah, I don't really spend very much time at all on sales. it's pretty much all on fulfillment. So I guess like liaising with businesses who are looking to hire sales reps. Yeah.

And answering questions and getting on group coaching calls with the students of my clients. How many group coaching calls a week are you getting on? Currently around 20 a week. So a little less than half a set of total clients we work with have that as part of the services I provide. Gosh, okay.

And then of that time, the rest of the time you're spending DMing people essentially like answering questions in the group. Exactly. Yeah. Okay. And then what would you do if your time wasn't being taken by doing either one of those things? I think it would just mostly be acquisition, finding more clients and making bigger, better

connections with businesses and people that are hiring sales reps consistently. Yeah. I think the first thing that you should try and get off your plate is the questions. Because if you can bring somebody on and you can train them on answering the questions in the group, that's like it's almost like they're onboarding to then take over calls from you. My question is when you're on the calls, what is the, like, if you were to tell me the top three things that you're teaching them on the calls, what would those three things be? I mean, I think the application videos would be the number one thing, but the majority of those

calls and answering people's questions is all like personalized. So it's based on their situation and their past experience because I work with some people that have a ton of sales experience and some people that, you know, this is going to be their first ever, you know, go at sales. And so it's mostly personalized, like, how can we frame the experience they do have or the lack of experience in the right way to be able to help them land a better job than they have currently or their first job. Yeah, so it's essentially a lot of career coaching to a degree, just in like a less traditional sense. Yeah. Okay, so you're looking for somebody that can essentially be a career coach for the remote sales opportunity piece.

Yeah, pretty much. And I think that struggle is, I don't know who has the understanding of the industry and, and I guess enough expertise, and obviously I can coach that, but to have authority in those conversations that isn't a great sales rep who could make a lot more money selling than helping people get jobs. So there's two different models that you can think of when you think of a coaching business like this. And I think this goes for like any coaching business in existence.

So we've talked to so many, and I've helped structure multiple teams like this. Like, there's really two models that work, and there's tradeoffs in each one, meaning like you kind of just want to pick your problems. And so I'm going to describe each one, and you can tell me which one you think you would rather have the shit that comes with it. The first one is that you hire people that are going to be full time. The downside of this is it's going to be harder to find those people because they're competing with these other opportunities. So just like what you said, it's like they could go make more money somewhere else, which means the type of people you're going to find are people who directly want to learn from

you and they see this as a learning opportunity, not an earning opportunity, and they one day want to open up a business similar to yours. So there's two downsides here, which is one, they're going to be competing in terms of cost. And so they're looking at these other opportunities. They're not going to come in for super cheap, even though they're trying to learn because the anchor is just very high as what they can earn elsewhere. The second side to it is that there's going to be a finite timeline on this because they're coming in to learn. And so once they feel like they've learned enough that they can go off on their own or go do something somewhere else and learn more, they're going to do that. However, the benefit is that it's less management for you

because if you bring these people in, you probably only need a couple of them, literally, to take care of all the clients that you have, and you get a ton of discretionary effort from them because they're full-time employees with you, and they're trying to learn, so they want to go above and beyond because they're trying to acquire the skills. That makes sense? That's the first model. The second model is easy to find and also hard to manage, which is find people that essentially are doing what you just described. They're already those coaches making a lot of money, but they want to make more money and they want to have influence. They like the status. They like the teaching. And so as a side opportunity, they can do this for 10 or 15 hours a week, maybe even less. And so then what you

would do is you would get more of those people, say you need, based on 20 calls a week plus whatever, say it's 40 hours, maybe you need four or five of them to cover you. You pay them a lot less. You get them fractionally and part time. The downside to it is that it's going to be more management from you because you have to build out of schedule, you're going to have to make sure that they're all, you know, clock in, clock, whatever, all the compliance. And so I would say that if you have a hard time finding the people, then maybe go with the model where you have the part-time coaches coming in. I would say the other upside to doing the part-time is that if you lose one, it's not a big deal.

You can replace them fairly easily. There's a lot of key man risk in the first model. And so if you don't feel like you're like going to really be great at retaining them, I typically tell people to steer away from that model. Let me, yeah, I'm going to thank you back on that. So the nice thing with the partial model that Lately just outlined is that, one, you're placing all these salespeople right now and you already have a history of placing a lot of salespeople already, right? And they already went through your training and whatnot. And so I would say, take your most successful alumni and say, hey, want to make an extra five grand a month and give back to the community that you came from.

Many of those guys would probably say, sure, I'd happily do it. Because, you know, five grand, because a lot of, you know, salespeople would get tired of selling all the time. And so this gives them a little bit of a break and feel like they're giving back. Yeah, exactly. So I actually really like that model. And given the fact that you recruit all these salespeople, it's I don't think it'd be that hard. Second, because it would kill me and eat me up inside to not at least say it. You can double your revenue really easily. Can I tell you how? I would love to know. So I hear where you're coming from with the, hey, I want to have as many opportunities as possible so I can find as many places as possible. So making it free is a way to do that. I hear you there. but you probably know of all the candidates you have that there's probably 10% of them that are killers and are going to do well, right?

Yeah, yeah. Right. Have a tier that's $2,500 or $5,000 per head that you say, hey, all these people are free. I personally screen these ones and give them a blue check mark from me, and these ones are $2,500 or $5,000 a pop. So if you get 600 placements a month is what you're doing, if 60 of them are paid at $2,500 or $5,000. that adds 150 to $300,000 a month to the business. That makes a lot of sense. You're like I got to get that one out. Yeah, I definitely need the implement.

Call that a money model. Call that a money model right there. Right there. You should write a book. I just write a book about that. Is that that that help? So that will solve your, your later model, and that's all of your money model. Rock and roll?

Yeah. That's awesome. Thank you, guys. Thank you. That was a fun one. That was good. That was nice. A little spice.

A little spice of life. That was fantastic. All right. Let's do next following. Let's rock and roll. Who else we got? Hey, I'm Brian. Hey, Alex.

Hey, Alex. Hey. What's up? Going on. So, I run a online coding boot camp for adults called tarsity.io. And I'm at a pretty frustrating position where we've, like, basically, plattoed at around 30 to 40 people per year. We have pretty good reviews, people seem to like us. I do pretty much only organic through a podcast and around 30,000

followers on LinkedIn. And I'm just wondering how do I hit this magical 100 people per year target? What do you charge? $9,200. So no, $200 is what you charge and you've got $30 to 40 people a year who are buying it. How long have you been doing it? This business has been been around for about five years. And I've been running it for the last two. Did you buy the company? Yes, I did. My seller finance purchase, yeah. Okay, understood. And last year was it also at the same number? Basically, yeah, like it had a pandemic, you know, plateau. It went up to like 50 or 60 people during the pandemic when it was the software developer market was really hot and now it's kind of gone to like 30 or 40. we're priced under most other coding boot camps

and we're much more personalized but it just feels like yeah it's a little stuck at this point where are your leads coming from? I'm not really having good experience to add almost all through a podcast I do that has about 10,000 listeners per month but it just feels like

it's frustrating to me like that's a lot of people but it's like no one's actually you come to 10,000 unique so there's 10,000 downloads 10,000 downloads right and how many podcasts do you make a month? Yeah Two per week? Yeah, eight per month.

Yeah, so call it, you know, it's 1,200 per episode downloads and not all downloads or listens. That's right, yeah. Right, so you might only have 1,000 people. Right, you might only have 1,000 or 500 or 600 or 600 people, and yes, we read the chat, by the way. And there's only 500 or 600 or 600 people who are actually listening. So the fact that you're getting 30 or 40,

that actually sounds like you're getting, yeah, you're getting 5% of your podcast to convert. Okay. Hello, guys. Has your podcast grown in the last year? It did, but I think that was like from doubling the amount of episodes. So I think it was like, oh, great, I'm getting more people. Yeah, I think that was the issue.

And so I've been trying to like explore LinkedIn. I'm like, okay, I have like 30,000 people on LinkedIn and then trying to write post daily. Like not as many of I think. Most of the people come from the podcast and we ask people, hey, how did you find out about it? It's almost always through the podcast. There's like I'd say, let's say 25% come through LinkedIn, and that's about it. All right. So you have a marketing issue.

No one knows you exist. And it's great that you have a podcast. Podcasts are very, very difficult to grow because there's very low suggestibility. So you would want to take, so I see podcasts and email this, for example, is very middle and bottom of funnel. And so you need more top of funnel awareness type stuff. So LinkedIn works. That's fine. but I would also be looking at, I mean, I know it's just you,

but I think you just need to make way more, like, instead of making more podcasts, I think you need to make more LinkedIn content, for sure, because that's where a lot of people, like, I think that's a good place. I think X is also a pretty good platform for people who are trying to like buy, you know, coding stuff. Also, repurposing that content, super easy between LinkedIn and X because it's almost all words. But beyond that, if you take the words and then you make videos of those words, shorts or longs,

combine the best three, four, five LinkedIn posts you make and then make those into longs for YouTube. If you combine all those things together, you'll get significantly more traction. Beyond that,

I'm assuming, how are people actually buying from you? So I see a LinkedIn post, or you're good, I see a LinkedIn post or podcast. What gets me to take action? Oh, okay. Like at the end of you,

I'm like, hey, you know, go to plug D.O and fill out this application. Yeah, okay. So thing one is we need a better lead magnet. So it'd be like, I would say you have your course thing. I would say give the first module away for free and say, hey, like learn how to do this in under 60 minutes.

The first, like the one thing that's really valuable would be like, oh my God, this is amazing. And then all you do is all those people get that thing for free. You'll get way more leads. You can call them up and then sell them. Because a direct ask of like go apply is tough. Yeah, for sure. Right.

super bottom of funnel. Like, you have a very bottom of funnel business, and so that's why it's not growing because everything is about just conversion. Yeah,

I was also thinking, like, we've had a lot of companies that we've worked with that are in this space. And the ones that I've seen that have had the highest revenue, they actually, they make YouTube videos.

So the reason I think it works well for that is because, like, it's a very, like, a lot of people that get into coding, like they like watching a lot of videos on coding. So it's like listening to it

is very different than, like, watching it. I almost feel like you could take your podcast and literally just turn them into YouTube videos. I think that you'd get a lot more buy-in. There'd be a lot more trust.

And then you probably, honestly, get way more lead flow that way because it's a platform that's easy to grow on compared to podcasts. So it's like I wouldn't stop doing the podcast. Yeah, in conjunction with what Alex said, I think the thing I'm thinking, it's just like you're putting a lot of effort into a channel that's not going to give you a lot of return. Yeah. Like my podcast and Alex's podcast, like, that is like the, it's the one thing that probably comes from like, I would say like if we want to do it the right way,

it can take a ton of effort and be difficult to distribute across other channels, optimized for those channels, whereas YouTube, if you made YouTube videos, you could take that and put that across Instagram, TikTok, Snapchat, LinkedIn.

Like, it's such a better source piece of content that when you're ready to scale again, you can scale that across so many different platforms versus the podcast is audio. Video turns into audio much easier than audio turns into video. Correct. Yeah. So T.

T. T. I'm not going to be. Totally. TLDR, two things you need to do. Thing one, get a better lead man. Thing two, you need to advertise way more, which means you put out higher valuable content across all platforms,

especially ones that have high deliver, high discoverability. Yeah, not that tracks. And so you probably wouldn't do ads at this point, right? No, I think you can post. No, I think you can, you have so much meat on the bone with organic right now. I would do, I would just double. I wouldn't double down. I'd five X down.

Okay. I appreciate that. All right. man, rock and roll. Appreciate you. Cool. Hey, thank you. All right, later, brother. Simon, appreciate the shout for the book. I'm glad you like it. He's referencing money models. It's also free on my podcast for those of you who are broke.

It's also a free course on my site for those of you who are also broke. It's also there. You don't even have to opt in. You can just watch it. But we're here now. So let's do this. Next caller is red with her. Nick Collar? Okay. Let's body slam. What's going on guys? Can you hear me? Yes, sir. going on my name is Josh I own a brick and mortar

pest control company that focuses mainly on recurring service plans cool residential clients yep so currently my constraint is optimized my offer I feel like just ring for improvement my answer what

my constraint is optimizing my offer okay okay yep I've been bundling basically all the services into like a mother of all bundled type of deal

yeah I basically can't upsell with that since I'm bundling everything and margins get tighter but my close rate does increase but when we don't bundle the office that happens close rate margins do increase along with upsell potential so my question is which of the two would you deploy the scale the quickest currently a million dollars to start the business a year ago we're going to get the five next year my question is you said closer decreases when you take away the bundles right uh yeah so basically with that bundle

I basically just can't sell yeah pretty much I'm curious do the customers do you sell less of a specific type of customer like in terms of like income range or type of house or something like that it's all up to scale like yeah basically upper

upper middle to hire is that what you're asking me yeah I was just trying to understand if like there's a specific type of customer that's more attracted that you're not getting when you switch that you lose with the switch, but that the ones that you're getting are going to have a greater LTV. So it's, like, kind of worth the tradeoff. But I was just trying to understand if there's a difference of customer.

Yeah. It's also the customer. Basically, yeah, it's like, so customers are pretty much the same. It's really not going to change. Okay. So I pretty much are focused on like a hired customer here that's willing to. Yeah, let me push back real quick. So you said your constraint is your offer.

I would say, how do you know that? Well, so, well, Coke, because of the, I would tell really honestly, it's like that close rate. It drops when we don't bundle, and when we do bundle, it goes up. I mean, the business is rocking and a roll. It's doing great. Honestly, I don't. I just wondering if that is the constraint. It doesn't sound like the constraint.

Like, what's not like? Why is the business not double in revenue? Like, yeah, what's stopping you right now? I mean, you said your close rate's fine when you have the bundle, so sell the bundle, okay, unless there's some other major problem. So the only thing is that the upsell potential drop, so the LTV does drop. Well, then, why don't you raise the price on the bundle? Yeah, I guess I could just raise the price in the bundle.

I mean, it's like... Love this for us. I will raise the price on the bundle. This is great. I'm glad we had this check. Okay, we have this thing that everyone wants to buy, It has lower margins. It's like, well, but if you're especially going to upscale, they don't know the difference.

So, you know, tap on 20, and then probably like double your margins. They won't even know. Yeah, you're right. I love it. Yeah, this was fun. I appreciate it. I'm going to be seeing you guys in September. Oh, wow, fun.

Well, rock and roll, man. We'll see you out here. Pyle so much more money you make in the meantime. Yeah, that'd be lovely. Yeah, that'd be lovely. You bet. Have a good one. We have a next dollar.

Okay. Let's do next caller. Who's on? Who's on first? It is, this is Paul. So I run a marketing agency for martial arts goals. Oh.

I offer new generation. And yeah, I offer lead generation and appointing sending services. I currently am at $420k in revenue, $100k in profits. And yeah, I guess the problem right now is that I kind of started this, just doing freelancing and stumbled into martial arts on a whim after having success with the clients. I figured out like a repeatable system to get them results, get people showing up, get people coming up to the first class, and that's kind of where I'm at today. I guess my problem right now is, you know, I'm selling three-month contracts

and turned pretty high still, and I kind of just didn't really fix the turn issue. I kind of just started selling a lot and getting clients, and I have a good relationship with all of them, but I've been kind of stuck at this range. It's $35,000 per month for a while now. clients that leave for a lot of reasons that I might control either a I do a great job and they can't handle long coming in or B they don't have the patients to kind of keep going with it and I think you want to take this one I don't I don't run a muscle at school myself so sometimes they have an issues with sales and I can't really run in charge itself so kind of just grew that agency on a whim what do you want to happen before I answer the question what do you want to happen what's your goal yeah that's the question I like to start with like Yeah, I think right now I'm trying to figure out if I should keep pushing on this or if I should pivot. Then, like, I didn't really set out to start an agency. What do you want to have happy?

What's the goal? It depends. It depends. You try to make a certain amount of money. You try to sell a business. Do you want a lifestyle business? Like, you know what I'm saying? Like, what do you want to think that?

I think I want to learn how to make a lot of money and exit and learn how to do that. This business will not exit. That's for sure. Yeah. We can tell you that. Yeah. You will not exit. So the question is, can you learn something from this business and make money at the same time,

or is there a better opportunity? Yeah. I thought about potentially selling my book of business and then opening up and pivoting to some sort of brick and motor kid education business. I mean, I've kind of fleshed out the scripts on how to get parents and getting them invested into a martialized program and the whole nurture sequence behind it. So I thought about investing the money. because I've saved about $100,000 in the business,

and not thinking of kind of leveraging that into maybe investing in an actual brick and motor and learning how to scale that. But I guess I'm just trying to figure out, do I, you know, in a good spot, should I push the agency, grow it? I'm curious what Layla's going to say. We'll probably have two different pieces. Like, we'll probably come at this from two different angles, so you'll get a double trouble on this one. Sure. But I'll say this.

Congratulations on learning how to generate leads in a market and work them, and get them in. You've learned acquisition, super valuable, and you've learned it for a specific avatar, right? You did that. The next step, this business, like, I can tell you where this is going to go. You would have to, you'd have to basically change this entire business in order to make it a bigger, sellable business, which is essentially the same as starting over. If, and that's all based on your goal. Because the reason that you have the turn you have is because Marshall, what you should do is in general tend to have you know they have high turn they're typically not very good business owners not very good but just they're small right they're very volatile and so that

volatility is in your business and volatility in their business and your business therefore creates a business that is not valuable right and so that's going to be based on them the only way that you can get those types of customers who are volatile inherently to be sticky is to look at the things that those people already buy that they don't turn out of so what are the things that they buy that they don't turn out of if you were to stick with this and I'm just using this as a mental construct and then I'll get into more specific examples of what I think you should do next. But big picture, you could, their payment processor,

they don't turn out of, right? The CRM, they don't turn out of. Their insurance. You know what I mean? Like there's things that they don't turn out. Marketing stuff, they will turn out of left and right and center, right? So I think that you have this whole kids education thing.

If it were me, I would prefer you go and find an industry if you want to do brick and mortar, which is fine. If you want to go brick and mortar, I would find an industry that already has a product or service that people don't turn out of. Then I would apply your skill of learning acquisition to that business.

And then you'll be able to, like, you can go and start acquiring businesses and then filling them up because you know how to require. And those businesses will already have the stick in place. And so you'll have the full stack. What was your experience part of this business? Well, I worked for a marketing company and I learned the generation there and then I kind of just The company ended up getting sold so I ended up you know trying to

get a freelancing and I learned yeah, I took it I got my own clients and then after I did that for about two years and here I am with a bunch of clients and I don't know what the next step is So that's great to know that and came and I don't take background. Yeah, so I thought about getting into the kids education space because, you know, I did martial arts because I came from a sports background teaching kids, like different sports, specifically Frisbee, which was cool. And I guess I thought about, you know, buying some sort of like tutoring business or kids education and taking my market sales there and growing vast. But just because if my goal is to learn how to sell and sell a company is, I'm not sure if the agency space is there too. That's from a

head that. Just find something that has high revenue retention. I was going to say you want to find something easy to market. Like, I think it's really impressive that you've done what you've done for martial art studios because we've worked with thousands and it's tough. So I can say that objectively. It's like you have a, you know, like a level eight skill that you're using on like a level three opportunity. And the opportunities that you're kind of presenting, they're not really that much better. It's like maybe a level four.

They're just different. I'm like, can you get a level eight, eight opportunity? to match your level eight skill. And what is that to you guys? It's something that is revenue retention. I'm just telling you right now. It's a move with revenue retention. Yeah, if you just solve for that.

Because once you have revenue retention, if you know how to acquire customers, you just grow up business. Every year it just gets better. That's, I mean, the hardest thing is revenue retention. I just want to, like, open up your mind. You're looking at opportunities that are linear. I want you to look at opportunities

that are exponentially different than what you're doing right now. And I think the reason you're thinking linearly is because, you know, without noticing, we have these beliefs, right, that we keep ourselves in these boxes thinking like, this is what I'm good at. The fact that you're very good at marketing, you need to find a great product that retains customers easily to market. What that is, maybe it does scare you or makes you nervous. You're like, I don't know nothing about that. That's okay. You can figure it out. And the thing that I tell people a lot is that it is just as hard to build a small business as it is to build a big business. Both of them are to be painful. You're going to supper. There's going to be

late nights. It's also just as hard to build a, I would say, like a more advanced business as it is a small business. I can tell you that from personal experience. It's like building a gym up to what it needs to be is as hard emotionally as building a large company like Acquisition.com. And they are hard in different ways. And they're also easy in different ways. So you're going to have 50% shit, 50% good no matter what opportunity you pursue. I would love to see you pursue an opportunity that is at least worth the 50% shit you're going to go through. That's something I mean Alex talk about a lot. which is like pick an opportunity that's worth the pain because it's going to be paying no matter what

this goes for everybody on the call. It's going to be a hard no matter what. So pick one, even if you're like, I don't believe that I could do, you will figure out a way. And everybody does. Even when we start out of business.com, you know, we didn't know anything about investing

or buying companies or doing any of those things and we learned along the way. It's just that you have to have the belief in yourself to just start. Like you're not going to feel ready for any opportunity that's exponentially different than what you're doing right now. you get ready by start. Got it.

Jet's got to find a level eight opportunity. I would literally go on chat, GPT, and I'd be like, tell me what an opportunity is. That has great revenue retention. Here's all the industries I've worked in. Here's all the skills. Where is something where I can get insane revenue retention that is five times more likely to sell and be worth something and make me, you know, maybe it's $50 million compared to these businesses I'm in right now?

Just like look at the list and then think, like, Like, okay, well, like, where do I have a 30 to 50% shot of success? I mean, like, I don't know how to explain this. Like, I have never felt ready before I tried something. I'm always like, I have no fucking idea if this is going to work. I could totally fail. This could totally be terrible. And like, that's going to happen no matter what.

It's just like you're picking things that are small. And here's the thing that's even worse. You said you want to sell a business. Well, then that means you have to stay in the game, which means you have to be challenged. Right. If you pick something that you know you're going to win, this is like where high performers just die. And I can tell that you're a high performer is that you pick something that's too easy. And then you get disengaged.

And then you're like, I can already play this out, know where this is going to end up. And I don't want to go there. And then you don't even want to see it out to sell the thing because you already know where it's going to go. It's not interesting. No, you're right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

No, last year, I remember I was at the 10K rate and I watched a bunch of out of this video, then he just said double ad spend and keep the course and here I am a year later, double badge bend, kept the course and I'm now, I guess, just got to find a, you know, high leverage activity. Also, I would just say this. You're going to learn more trying something than you are going to learn thinking about it. We don't learn while we stay in our heads. We learn we get out into the world and we do stuff. So like think about a way, like how could I test these documents? Can I be an affiliate of a company like this? Could I be an affiliate to an insurance company? Could I just come in and be a contractor to help build,

up this ex-companic. You could literally just find one big client, be like, I will do your in-house marketing just so you can learn the business. Yep. Yeah, I would love to do that. And use the cash that you have as you're saving so that you can be aggressive with your learning. Right. As in like that's your mistake, so you don't have to worry about living. Yeah, I've been, I've been doing the whole like Chip for a person to cake. Good man. Because you guys. I appreciate you guys. No, I appreciate appreciate you, ma'am. Awesome. I'll do the thing. I appreciate you do. I appreciate you, We have another caller A caller

A ringer is at the door Someone has a ring Who'd we have on the line Devon What up Devin So I've got a small YouTube channel

Like really small And I just don't know where to go Other than just make more content What do you say? I've watched your stuff I don't have anything to sell What do you make YouTube about? Should I have a product?

What's the YouTube about? It's hunting, they can outdoors. I'm an outdoors. Oh, that's cool. And how many subscribers do you have or views do you get a month? So I've got 2,000 subscribers. Okay. And in the last 28 days, I've gotten almost a quarter of a million views, mostly from short.

I haven't posted many long yet. Okay. All right. What do you do and make money? Yeah, how do you live? I have a job. I work 40 hours a week. What do you do, though?

I make lawnmower parts. I think you're early. So I do think that you should start making some longs because longs is what's going to depth in your kind of influence to the audience. You want to demonstrate more expertise around hunting. And if you're like, I don't know how to do that, just take three or four long concepts, sorry, short concepts that were good

and just loop them together. Not literally loop them together. Just make a video that kind of. covers each of those concepts, you know, in tandem and work your way to a five or eight or ten minute video. And I would start doing that. I just think you're early, dude. Okay. So just basically just be more. Yeah, and do better, too. You know what I mean? Like, I think you got to learn a little bit more about the content game. I would say, like, what, right now, are you spending all your time making content for YouTube outside of work?

Just about, yeah. Yeah. And every minute at I keep fair, I do. No, you're good. How long have you been doing it? Well, I started a channel several years ago and kind of got very, very inconsistent. And then about two months ago, I decided to really get in after it. Okay. Well, okay, I think then we can both tell you this, which is like YouTube is a game of consistency.

Like, that's just, that's how the platform works. So I think the biggest thing that you can do right now is just be consistent. Because if you look at, like, how to go from just like okay or mediocre to just like good, solid, it's consistency. And then if you want to get to like great, it's like continue to improvement while being consistent. So I guess the question is, how many shorts and how many longs you commit to making per week?

So I was, at one point I was doing one a day and it was great. But I'm kind of back down to like three a week, three and four a week. You mean for the shorts, right? Yes, sir. Yeah. I think, I mean, you do have to do more and you have to do a consistent. And I would just tell you that like right now you're not multi like just for your own self do not consider yourself having done this for years. You've been doing it for eight weeks. Yeah. So you're super early now. Yeah. You're super early. Okay. So I just like I wouldn't even think about monetizing it right now. Like you just want to take 5am to 9 a.m. and 5 p.m. to 9 a.m. and 5 p.m. beginning a day and a day. And I put all of that into making sure no matter what I got out. I get out one short a day. And then on my weekends, I'm going to be. I'm going to. I'm going to. I'm going to. I'm going to. I'm going to. I'm to make sure that I get at least one long out.

Okay. What's your goal? One more question. What's my goal? Do you want to put your job? Do you want to build a company? Yes. I believe if I can just replace my income from my job with this, then I could scale it up.

And I guess my number would be about 10 grand a month. Okay. Would be like ideal. Okay. What stops you from making one video a day like you were? Like what behavior? Mostly, just life gets in the way or you get to talking and there's somebody and then the sun goes down and now I'm out of daylight.

So if you want to ask yourself how to be consistent, the question is how do you stop the things from occurring that make you inconsistent? So it's like do you have the right people surrounding you? Do you have yourself in the right environment? Like those are the things that I think you want to be thinking about right now. Because I know like for myself or for Alex, when we were first starting out and like making, just trying to get into business,

I had to put myself an environment where it made it easy to achieve my goals, not hard, which also meant surrounding myself with people and a routine that made it easy. Do you know how I define commitment? How? The elimination of alternatives. You have to get rid of your other options. And I don't mean like you need to quit your job.

I mean, everything else that is not you make, if this is what you want, and it's like you can only know that. But if this is really what you want, then it means that you have to say no to everything else in order to truly say yes to this. Because every time you say yes to something else, it's saying no to this thing that you want. And almost always the things that we want to say yes to now are short term, long term. We say yes in the moment because it gives us a short term good thing, but it prevents us from the long term great thing. okay so I was also thinking should I post on Instagram Facebook as well I want you to be consistent with YouTube first man all right you mean 12 weeks of consistency you make one long and you make seven shorts 12 weeks in a row you do that

and you're like you know what I got more the thing is right now you have to do that volume so you can become more efficient like you have to feel the pain of the inefficiency of being like man this is a lot of work because when you do that all of a sudden you'll start getting faster, you start getting better, and your work output and capacity will go up. And then you'll free up the bandwidth because you've got more skills, you got more efficient that you can start looking at, you know what, I'm going to repurpose this on Instagram, repurpose this on TikTok or whatever. Okay. It's also like, just like really thinking about this in order to build a business to replace your income, like you want to build that

confidence. And confidence is an output, non-input. The input to confidence is becoming incredibly consistent with something so you get the experience which makes you competent and then it leaves your competence and I think like in general if you can't stick with a commitment that you make to yourself then you you degrade the trust you have with yourself every day and so like anything you do it's not going to come out as good as it could be it's always going to be harder it's going to take longer if you don't repair that trust as to yourself so I think like right now if you're just consistent with the posting like that is going to make you not just better at business and content but just better person for yourself a better, I would say like partner to yourself in doing this.

That's kind of funny because I was watching one of Alex's videos where he was talking about consistency and how you get better by doing the thing over and over again. So I started doing that and I've already noticed that trend. I think right now it's good to steer a little bit. Like I get obsessive over doing things consistently. Alex knows this. But I think you can steer a little.

little bit in the obsessive direction right now, I think it'd be good for you. And then you can correct that later. And expect the fact, like, expect people who are normal and around you to not understand, expect them to think it's weird, expect it to not look cool. Like everyone goes through a cringe period. Like, it's going to be lonely because you're trying to do something that's very different. And I make that content where I say, like, in order to be exceptional, you have to become the exception. You're going to probably be surrounded by the majority of people in your life who don't want this, aren't interested in it, think it's dumb. think it's stupid, think it's you're trying to be famous, you thinking more of yourself than you

really are, all of that stuff. And you just have to just put that on the shelf and get back to where. Because like either they'll be right or you will, and you've got a long time to be right. That's kind of what I was, all right, thank you. Yeah. They'll be right for now, and you'll be right for good. Yes, sir. So just keep on. Keep on, baby. Keep on. thank you very much you guys are awesome you bad appreciate you man how do I go up on hiring the right person

that is a very short question that is a very long answer um be the right person yeah there's a short there's your short answer wow wow this be nice uh I run an agency for churches they have all cameras and equipment but no editors

basically a clear marker for taking for back end media optimization how to I market administrates honestly I think they're pretty easy to market you I think I would start with outreach first I get some I get my first 10, you know, testimonials so I can, and then ask them for referrals. And then once I have that, once your capacity gets taxed, you can ask them to start paying you because you can't

keep doing it. And they're going to start getting hooked to the fact that they had good media. After they have good media, you'll convert some of them. Some of them you'll have to drop with the excess capacity. Then you can start doing outreach using the testimonials from the 10 people that you did it for free for. And in that process, you'll learn how to do the game. I feel like in fitness content, it's not impossible to post daily, but I keep. running of ideas to keep up with seven days a week. Here's my favorite way to make content. Look at all the content on fitness that you fucking hate.

And then ask yourself, why do I hate this so much? There's your piece of content. I do this all the time. People will send me like, you should make this piece of content. Like, you, it's disgusting. And I'm like, why am I so disgusted by this piece of content? And I'm like, it's so cringe. Why?

And then that is a piece of content in itself. So like, look at what you see, that why are like, why is this so bad? And then that becomes the content of the best hack on that. And I'll piggyback when what I was said, When she's saying that, she's not saying don't go on people. She's not saying make reaction videos where you shit on other people. You probably, like anybody who's following our stuff, like, Leland and I, we do not, like, that's just, we don't operate that way. I think there's enough hate in the world.

I don't think I want to add to that. So I just, like, you know, tall poppy, right? You can drag everyone else down or you can lift yourself up. We are very much on the, like, just make better shit. And if you keep making better stuff, you will be known. I don't think there's any point in shitting on. others but it is good for for inspiration yeah thinking about it yeah exactly yeah cool um i have an event company and has only been established for two months but our competitors have been

here 15 years how do i get clients to trust me since they're comparing us to our competitors you're going to have to you okay so i'll give you the classic um small dog frame all right so if you were to enter the gym space you would have to compete against jim gym watch. And as a reminder, when I entered the gym space, I was the small dog. Not the 800-pound gorilla. Did we were the small ones? The tiniest of dogs. The idiot bit. Everyone compared us to everybody else. It was like every call I got on, it was like, well, what about this person? Yeah. Every time. So you have to, you have, comparison only works in the vague, not in the specific. Meaning, they're comparing your company to their company. You need to reframe the

comparison as comparing you to employee number 86 at that events company. So it's like, listen, they've been here, like, you want to lean into it. You'll be like, listen, they've been here longer. They've got, they've got way more, you know, track record experience. I was like, but you're just going to be a number to them. And if there's a problem, you're going to go to a cow rep number number six and you're like, and they're not really going to care. And so it's not, is my company better than their company? The question you have to ask yourself is whether I'm better, and more motivated to help you have an amazing event and experience as a new business owner who will do everything to succeed compared to their hourly or salaried employee who clocks in and clocks out and

doesn't care that's who you need to compare guys and if that's the bet i'll win 10 times out of 10 that's the reframe when you're starting out could you please explain how to decide between a monthly oh shit you know monthly subscription and what was it and a one-time payment yeah yeah okay cool It's actually just a math thing. So it's going to ladder up to something called EPCs, which is earnings per click. All right. And so you get your earnings per click by saying you have two lines on an Excel sheet. So this is pure math.

100 clicks to offer one, 100 clicks to offer two. And so if offer one gets 100 clicks and let's say you convert 2% of those clicks, all right, I'll just do the math in front of it. You love when you do math. Yeah, all right, I'll be fast with it. All right. So we get 100 clicks on both of these. We've got A, which is our subscription, and we've got B, which is our lifetime. Okay.

So let's say our conversion rate on this is 2% here. And let's say our conversion rate on our lifetime offer is 3% on the page, whatever. All right. Now, our price for our subscription is going to be, let's say, $10 per month. And let's say that our lifetime offer is $50 one time. All right. That's it. Now, our churn, all right, our churn here, let's say that our turn on this is 10%. Okay, that means our LTV is going to be $100.

So if we have two clicks, 2%, 2%, 2 clicks, and we have 100 LTV, then we're going to make $200 in total on 100 clicks, which means our EPC is $2. If we're going through this one, our churn doesn't matter because it's lifetime, lifetime value is going to be $50. And so we got three clicks, which means we got $150. So our EPC here is going to be 150 divided by 100, which is, I don't know, one and a half, I think. So this would be our winner. All right. Now, the big caveat here is that it will take you 10 months to break even on that first offer versus getting five times the cash up front.

So there's going to be a cash conversion cycle issue that you're going to have to deal with. Now, these numbers actually don't make sense because realistically you might have higher conversion at a $10 price point than 50. Then again, people don't like monthly recurring compared to a one-time payment. It could go either way. And so if you're like, how do I pick which one? You test both. You look at your earnings per click, the one that has the earnings per click that's higher is going to be the one that will make you the more money over time. And as long as you have the cash flow to sustain that, that's the one you do.

If you don't have the cash to sustain it, then you have to start rejiggering the money model, read the green book. That's what it was all about. Boom. Snap shot that. that's right uh horomose hapline caller number 27 next caller please what are you're like too hot they were like it's too hot getting out of the kitchen did you almost hang out you almost hang out you almost you almost ghost us like patrick suez you're here's hello yeah what's up man tell us about the business what's what's the what is the problem that you want to solve today

how's the going guys who's still alive they've been killing it All right, I'll be bad. What's your name? So I run a, my name is Dan. I run a center for seniors and a disabled day program. Okay. And most of our members are basically insurance based. Yep.

So. Pick them up, you take care up for the day and you drop them off and you get day rates. Correct. Yeah. Give them a meal. And the biggest issue that you have is that sometimes people don't want to come with you. Is that the problem?

Basically, biggest issue is growth. In our area, we have a lot of kind of bad actors who are offering kickback and payments to join the service, even though it's completely illegal. We are a federally funded program. Yeah. Yeah.

Super familiar. So you're struggling with growth because you have legal actors? That's not just an easy excuse to say. you know um but kind of the difficulty is focusing on we kind of three primary people to sell to it's the actual person that will join the program yeah uh a caregiver either a mom or kid family needs this yeah or referral sources like doctors social workers so it's basically these three archetypes of people that that we need to sell to um which one you uh succeed the most with it's a good question the referral sources always seemed being great because they

have access to a ton of people I do in-person lunches with them and do the whole song and dance but to get a referral it's very difficult because once they get on people are also paying for referral but that's an excuse which we said earlier right correct okay so let's just that just cast it out of your vocabulary for now. You're going to not do illegal things, right? No, absolutely no. We've been in business for 20 years, so we're not playing. We too have competitors that do illegal things.

It's like, it's like, it's just something that's taking up room in your mind because you brought it up place already. Absolutely. Right. Okay. So you're saying that you have these song and dance conversations, and you're saying it's hard for you to convert from them saying, yes, you can come to our facility with a bus and pick up people and knock on doors?

the pickups are from their house that's when they've already become a member are you doing are you doing multifamily though uh no usually each location is a particular person not like uh we're not picking up from like one place like hundreds of people is each each stop is one person yeah and you've owned the business for 20 years yeah well i joined about eight years ago as a partner okay so can you take more customers than you currently have. Absolutely where we could think about double. It's not triple. Okay, so your demand constrained right now.

Yes. Yeah. Okay. Domain can trade right now. So people don't know you exist, so we have to do more advertising in some way. So you said you have these three avatars. Do you know what one of these avatars is worth compared to the others? In a number sense, no, but let's say if you advertise to one caregiver, that's one

member and potentially a doctor's office is like 200 potential members. That sounds like pretty simple math to me. So what stops you from going to the physicians? Nothing. I go to them, but to get consistent referrals. Surprisingly, we get referrals from people that I've never spoken to. Like, we're in the local community. We're very well known.

Yeah. But like they know us. They know our name. Yeah. But in terms of actually getting a signature and getting a person to join. right very so i don't have uh confidence in that you're good in the leads book which hopefully you've read right the chapter that i want you to learn like the back of your head is the affiliates chapter because that's exactly what this is so these positions are your affiliates and you're going to need

like them just saying yes sure we'll refer people to you is not going to do anything right which you've already experienced yeah so i prefer a launch then integrate strategy, which is great. Why don't we send an email to all those people? Or if you want, I can hang out at your office and after you meet with a patient, I'll meet with them after you. That's interesting. Great. I call a fan fan. Yeah. So you want to launch, which is like if you can get them to one to many tell their audience, you know, about you. When I say audience, it is obviously the patient base, but like that would be thing one. That's the easy thing. Integration is what you. You

you want to have with an affiliate, which is how can you work in their existing flow so they have minimal change in business, but it ends up promoting you. So that's what, let me send somebody to your office so that they can take this for you, right? You can also say like you're worried about kickbacks, you can rent space if you wanted to and say, hey, I'll pay you $1,000 a month to put up a little kiosk here. And that would be different than a kickback because it's not based on performance. Interesting. Interesting. I love it. Wonderful. You still go into business coaching.

I wonder if you could do this professionally.