The Game with Alex Hormozi - The Value of Pain In The Pursuit of Success (with Andy Frisella) Pt.2 - Mar. ‘23 | Ep 560

Episode Date: July 8, 2023

"Every time you do get f*cked over, you actually end up being the person that won." Today, join Alex (@AlexHormozi) as he guests on Andy Frisella’s Podcast REAL AF to share his theory on doing the right thing and how it can lead to long-term success, despite the pain that may come with it. He also discusses the importance of understanding user needs in research and the practicality of giving to more people to increase the likelihood of success. This is part 2 of the interview.Welcome to The Game w/Alex Hormozi, hosted by entrepreneur, founder, investor, author, public speaker, and content creator Alex Hormozi. On this podcast you’ll hear how to get more customers, make more profit per customer, how to keep them longer, and the many failures and lessons Alex has learned on his path from $100M to $1B in net worth.Check out the episode on Andy Frisella’s YouTube Channel!Timestamps:(2:38) - Treating people right leads to personal growth and winning(7:51) - Long-term success comes from being a giver and creating opportunities(25:08) - Losing and learning are part of the journey to success(36:20) - Word of mouth remains the most powerful form of marketing(47:24) - Brand building is a slower process but the right way to do it(56:15) - Exceptional products and experiences are prerequisites for successFollow Alex Hormozi’s Socials:LinkedIn | Instagram | Facebook | YouTube | Twitter | Acquisition

the guys who are players at their age in 20s and they're in the maybe 30s, whatever, like right at that stage, like they're hungry, they're savages, and they're in the grind. And they're doing the work of giving first to as many people as they can over delivering, knowing that that goodwill will will compound. Welcome to the game where we talk about how to get more customers, how to make more per customer, and how to keep them longer, and the many failures and lessons we have learned along the way. I hope you enjoy and subscribe. Dude, I feel like it's funny that you bring this up.

I just had a couple buddies over at my house a couple nights ago. And DJ was there. And we got to talking about this. These are two dudes that are pretty successful guys. And we started talking about, I have a theory about this. And this is my theory. It goes along with what your mentor said to you about doing the right thing. I feel like that, yes, when you do the right thing, I feel like you continue to win and you continue to grow.

But that doesn't mean that all of the right thing. things to happen during that don't hurt and don't fucking like fuck with you and um but what i in my case in my in my life in my experience is that even when because dude like usually what's weird from in my experience is that it's been the people that i've done the most for or the extra things for that have come back to fuck me and um that really hurts like that really fucks you up dude because like when you're trying to do extra shit and you're trying to help people or you're trying to to like, you know, give people a hand or break or, you know, put people on a, on a faster path. Nearly 100% of the time in my life, it's come back in some sort of way to hurt me, whether it be,

you know, they try to drag my name through the mud or some bullshit, right? It's never them. It's fucking always, you know, everybody else, which is the reason they're in the situation, the need for help in the first place. this is why I've started to recognize that saving people from themselves is not actually the ethical move. The ethical move is to let them fucking learn their lesson so they don't repeat the lesson over and over and over. But I do believe that when you treat people right and you do the right things, that eventually you, not eventually, I believe you consistently continue to win and those people do, they shrink and they go away. and you'll talk about them, you know, three or four years or five years or ten years or whatever it is once in a while

because they'll remind you of all the good shit that they actually taught you, you know, and that's something that a lot of you guys should really think about because a lot of people that are in business, you know, getting your getting taken advantage of when you have financial means is a real thing. It's a real thing that happens. And people target people like that. And when you have a big heart, like you do and I do, it's easier to be taken advantage of because the pain that we have to feel to help them in a massive way is not very much, my relative, right? Like someone needs five grand, five grand doesn't hurt me, dude. Yeah. And changes their life. But those people quickly forget what the fuck you did for them.

And then they expect it. And that seems to be the scenario in society these days. And we were just talking about, I was telling them what you stepped out. we were just talking about this at the house the other night about like I'm like dude you know like for me where I'm at and this is real shit like this is I mean this I'm not really interested anymore and going through that process of like developing a like more of a circle like I think you and I were the ones talking like the six month probation period yeah right you know that you know and what Alex and I were talking about you tell them you're how you do it

we'll just like you you're like we'll see how things go yeah i mean that's basically for like six months we were talking it's like dude as long as no one like violates the trust or like ask you for shit then they can like you could start to build a friendship yeah because dude a lot of people come along and you know they get i guess hot and heavy with friendship very quickly yeah and then you find out that there's a reason for it and it's not because they want to be your friend and unfortunately this is a reality of becoming a successful person. But one of the things that that I think you should understand, because a lot of you guys, you know, you get that first person that takes advantage of you or that first person that does you wrong. What I think you

should realize is, you know, you just heard Alex talk about how he got fucked over by multiple different people. But those things forced him to learn all of these skills. And in the process of going down this with good faith, he was able to develop his sales skills. He was able to develop personal skills. He was able to develop his creative thinking skills and become much more successful because of it. So whoever, whatever it is you're dealing with out there, remember there's a lesson in it. And also remember that if you continue to do good and you continue to do right, I believe that those people win. Like all the people I know that I'm friends with that are big winners financially. They, they are people who go above and beyond for people all the time and

usually end up getting fucked over a lot, but they continue to do it. And I don't know if it's like karma or the universe or what it is, but somehow you keep being rewarded when you live like that. Even though it's painful, it's a painful way to live because it would be easier to say, fuck everybody. I'm not giving you shit, you know, but dude, I still, even though I've been fucked over so many times, I still give when I see opportunities to fucking help. I have so many thoughts on this. Yeah. So if you think about like people understand video games.

So it's like if you were to make, if you're playing a video game and the way to win the game was to make the most successful character, right? You would have probably a really character-driven human being in terms of like they'd be patient. You know, they'd be hardworking. Like you think about all these traits that they would have, right? They'd probably be tough emotionally, like, et cetera. All right.

Cool. That's the character. And that's the person who's going to be really. successful. We can all probably agree on that. Okay. How do you create someone who's patient? How do you create someone who's tough? How do you create someone who, right? So all of a sudden, if we had to then engineer the game in order to boost those points, we'd have to get them beat up a lot so that they could get tough. We'd have to make them wait a long time so they could become patient. And so to the point that you made about like these people who become really successful have these traits and also

share the fact that they've been through all this shit, it's like, well, they got the trait from the shit and then the trait was the ultimate output of the experience and that trait then made them super successful that they didn't have earlier because like you know what's crazy if you really think about that and break it down every time you do get fucked over you actually end up being the person that won yeah on a long enough time rise you end like the person with the highest character wins on the longer on the longer time horizon um but on on game theory they've studied this in terms of givers givers mattress takers I'm not you're familiar with that but basically a mattress somebody who's like tit for tat you do something for me I do something for you

You've got takers who just always want to take from everybody. And you've got givers, right? And so they basically, like, adjusted how much giving versus taking, like, a bot had in an exchange and just played it out. And the perfect amount of give to take is an eight out of ten giving to take ratio. So, like, if 10 out of 10 giving is like you're a social worker, you get walked all over, like, you never, you never draw the line. The one takers, they just take for everybody, they win really quickly and then they lose. very long because they screw everyone over. They can't create any long term.

They don't get the compounding effect of doing business over and over and over again with people. And the mattress and takers together never get the opportunities that the givers get because the givers give first. And so there's so many more doors that get open from an opportunity perspective by giving first. And so like a lot, like in the tech world, they talk about surface area of luck. So like people are like, ah, like that guy got lucky. You can actively increase the surface area, the likelihood that you become. lucky by giving to more people. And then all of a sudden, more doors are open because you knocked first.

Yeah, it's practical. Right. It's really practical. Yeah. And so like, yeah. I love that. Well, you know, and it, it's an incredibly painful way to go through life, dude, because like, I'd be, I'd be real. Like, at, like, at this is where I was, this is where I was getting at is like, I'm not interested in going through the, I'm like the new network of, and then trying to figure out like who the fuck is who. Like who's, who's the giver, who's the taker, who's the piece of shit? Like, I don't want to do that anymore. Like, I'm not interested in it. And a lot of people get upset with me because I don't really let people around me.

But dude, you got to understand. I've been doing this for 24 years, this exact thing. I've been getting my ass beat by motherfuckers that pretend to be my friend over and over and over again. and I'm just over it. Like now I just don't let people in. It's just what the fuck it is. Like if you're my friend now, you're my fucking friend.

These dudes here, these are my fucking friends. You know what I'm saying? Like a couple dudes from the internet that I, you and I know who they are. Those are my friends. Outside of that, it's my brother,

it's my dad, it's my wife. And that's fucking it, man. Logic has a famous clip where he was talking about how he stays out of trouble. And he's like,

here's it is real simple. I don't fuck with anybody. I don't fuck with anybody. And I mean it. I don't fuck with anybody. Like throw that shit in the show It's a great clip I actually have it

I'll send it to you Joe Because I remember I watch it a lot And he's like I'm not playing I fucking stay at home I play with my dog I have my girl over

And that's fucking in I don't fuck with anybody And I'm like Do you feel like it's getting I don't say harder But you have to work harder To stay quote unquote Normal as your

No no Because I don't fuck with nobody Yeah I don't fuck with nobody Like at all Nobody so It's very simple I stay at my house And

just me me and my homies and my fiancee my little puppy i just got and i don't fuck with nobody i don't go anywhere i don't go to parties i barely go outside like literally i really don't go outside that much just because i don't i don't fuck with nobody that's smart dude yeah it's a smart dude and uh anyway i love that whole that whole take you have on it because that really helps me that helps me to see that it is practical it's not just this emotional beating that i take over and over people give them as value win the most of the long run it's just that they have to go through and like that's why those two theories kind of coincide where it's like you've got the character traits that

create the success. But the math behind it is like you just increase the surface area of your luck by giving to more people. And in so doing, let's say if you give the 10 and you get screwed by two, you get, let's say the matcher was going to get five of those opportunities. It's just that those extra three opportunities where you didn't get fucked, that over years and years and years, that's the thing that compounds and then just makes you unstop. Yeah, absolutely. But people are afraid of getting, people are afraid of getting taken advantage of. Or the first time they do it, they just quit. Yeah, exactly.

Yeah. For sure. The first time it happens, it's, it's a price. It's, it's the cost of admission. Yeah, it's a ticket. That's right, dude. It really is. And also, a word of advice is that if you are one of these people that helps a lot of people

and then you happen to get your name drug through the mud for any reason, don't expect them to stand up for you because they won't. And I've, I've yet, the only theory that I've been able to come up with on this because it happens to me once in a while. by once a year, fucking once every two years, somebody fucking drags my name through the fucking mud

and all the fucking cockroaches come out. But yet none of the fucking people that I've actually done good shit say a motherfucking word about it. And I figured out why. The reason why is is because they're embarrassed and needed the help in the first place

and they don't want to expose themselves for having needed the help that you actually offered them, which I think is fucked up. I think that's fucked up. I think if people do good shit for you and you see people fucking dragging that person's name, you should fucking tell people

what the fuck they did and be like, you know, you think whatever to fuck you want, but this is what actually happened. And that's just my two cents on that because it gets fucking annoying. But whatever, dude. Anyway, what's next? I'm just saying, like, dude, it's like doing the right thing. Like, when people are good to you, tell people that they're good people. When people aren't good to you, you know, fucking it is what it is.

Don't do shit with them anymore. But like the common decency, and I think a lot of it has to do with the internet, like, everybody's protective of their brand now. Like, motherfuck-fucking, most of y'all don't have a business. brand. Like you really don't. You got to fuck a couple thousand followers. You think you got a personal brand. Nobody knows who the fuck you are and nobody cares who you are. So like, do, do the right thing and actually stick up for people or tell people the truth or this or that. And the reality is those people will continue to look out for you. Like it's very simple. And most people will also

forget. Like let's say somebody came out of the woodwork and was like, no man, Andy helped me out when I really needed it. Yeah. Andy will remember. Everyone else will forget about the instance anyways. Yeah. But you get, like it's like the evening the score.

Like I don't like to owe people shit. Yeah, I don't either. Right. Yeah. I don't owe motherfucker anything.

There is not a motherfucker listening to this fucking show. There's not a motherfucker on this planet that cunned me right now and say I owe them a shit of fucking anything.

No, you had the one guy who said you, who said you, he gave you, like, 60 grand or something. Into the lobby?

You don't remember that guy? Oh, fuck. Yeah. That's different. Oh, dude. Yeah, I had a guy show up here

who, And by the way, I felt bad for him. I did. I felt bad for him too. Hey, dumbasses. Realize that I'm not soliciting you for fucking Bitcoin or I don't even do. I don't even do this shit.

It was bad. I were in real companies with real employees and we do real shit in real life. Like, I will never solicit an investment from you. You will never get a DM for me asking you to fucking go in on this deal. I don't, that's not what I do. We had this guy,

this poor guy, dude. And he, he, he, he, dude, it made me feel terrible. Yeah. He shows up here one day, dude. And he's like, yeah, man, like somebody pretended. He knew that at this point, like somebody scammed him. And he's like, somebody pretended to be you and took 80 grand for me, bro. It's all I fucking had.

Yeah. And like, I, like, it was the most, it was the saddest, most awkward shit that I'd ever been a part of. Because I'm like, dude, like, do you really think like, I'm, and we're standing in this building. And I'm like, dude, do you really think? like look around here. Like, do you think I'm asking people for fucking money,

dude? Like, I'm not soliciting money, dude. And he's like, well, it makes sense now, but I just wanted to believe it.

So like, for all of you guys to get those messages, bro, know that those people are full of shit, because I don't even do that. I don't even communicate

with DMs outside of like five people. So, but it was sad, dude. And that goes double for anyone who's listening from my audience. Yeah, 100%.

Because we're, because we invest. Yeah. And so it's like even, so we have hundreds of accounts that are like, I've got a deal or like, hey, I'm doing this crypto trade or this 4X thing. And I'm like, guys. Yeah. Like, so we get, we get it all the time. So I'm not damming you. Just FYI.

Yeah, me neither. I'm not. If you get six Hormosies or six Andes that automatically follow you when you follow us, like it's not us. Yeah, it's not, man. It's sad. Dude, it made me, it made me, it made me, it made me, it made me, it made me, it's, it made me, this is like, this is my whole bias against Instagram and Facebook and the internet, as much as I love the tools that we have both used and utilized, the fucking dark side of it is just so shitty dude. Yeah. Like just so fucking predatory and disgusting. But that's a whole other story. We can talk about that for fucking day. But yeah, man, I like that. So how did you get, how did you get into where you're at now. Yeah. So, so, you know, Jim Wanchett had, you know, started scaling up. Then we started a

supplement company, Prestige Labs. And the exchange that I had with you, which I really do want to hit on, even though your audience has probably heard it, I want to tell how it impacted me. Prestige Labs was our supplement company that we sold through that distribution base of Jim. So at that point, I think we, I think at that point, I think we had just like just under 2,000 gyms that had licensed and stuff. Now it's like 5,000 plus. But at that point, we launched it in 2019. And then in 2020, we launched our software that basically just worked gyms for brick and mortar businesses. Originally it was for gyms, but we realized it actually worked for any kind of service business like hair salon, whatever.

Any kind of foot traffic business. Yeah. And so that's kind of the two kind of spinoff businesses that we had from gym launch. In 2021, we sold all three of those businesses. So prestige labs and gym launch, we sold together to American Pacific Group, which is a private equity firm out of San Francisco. and then I sold that for 46.2 million, we still have to 33% of the company.

And then the software, we did an all-stock deal with a much bigger strategic partner. We had a better monetization system than them, but they had a way bigger distribution base. And so they're fixing to sell it in like three or four or five years. Yeah.

So you saw 33 on that? No, I have 33. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah. That's good though. Yeah, yeah. No, I mean, your second payout is going to be born

at the first one. Yeah, because they're putting a big tech place. They're building a CRRM out. and then they're going to own the payment processing for all the gyms, and that's going to, like, murder it. I fucking love it. And that's their playbook. I was like, you know what?

I'm not that guy. Maybe I am now, but I wasn't then. And so it was like, cool, run that play. I want to do this thing. And that's when in 2020, we started, we did our first kind of like personal investment, which was that photography studio. I was a single location. Guy somehow made his way on my calendar.

Don't do this. And, but like, I could, like, you know, like you can read a person, like, I could tell how he was talking, the way he was carrying himself, like all the stuff. I was like, this is a nice guy. He was like, I'm so sorry I did this. I did like, he's like, blah, blah, blah. I was like, but I read your book. I did everything that was in the book. I took my photography studio from like 400 grand to 1.6 million a year. Yeah. So you're, so you're willing to give a little bit for guys like that. Right. When he starts like, and like, I knew that he wasn't, he wasn't pulling it out of his

ass. Like, I knew he'd, he'd, he'd, I recognized his name. He'd DM me a couple times of like, yeah, so much about her. And so anyways. And so anyways. turns out he has this photography studio. It's Enchanted Fairies. And I'll tell you this story because I think it's really cool. Enchanted fairies? Yeah. All right.

Let's give him a plug. Inchanan fairies. What's up? He had a daughter who got told at school to shut up. And she stopped talking for like months. Holy shit. Yeah. And so what ended up happening was like they tried to, you know, all this different stuff

to try to get her talk and do it. And so what they did was they set up these sets because they're photographers, right, of how, like, of a storyline where she is the hero of her own story and she finds her voice. That's like kind of like a, and so they made it to a picture book and read it to every night. She started talking again. And so I was like, wow, that's really cool because like kids, like everybody, stories are what influenced the way we see the world. And so they had a visual, but it was like not just any story. It was a story with her pictures of her being the hero.

Yeah. And they donate a third of their profit of charity every year towards kids. Like they're like good people. Yeah. And so anyways, you told me this whole thing and I was like, yeah. Like, yeah, I'm in. Like, you know, how can I help? Right?

And so we invest in the company and now we have 38 locations. That's fucking awesome. 30 months later. And so yeah. So one location. Yeah. And how many months? 38 months?

38 locations. I think it's been 30 months. So it was June of 2020. So whatever that is until now. That's amazing. Yeah. And so like that went well. The guy's holding onto his fucking hat.

What? I said he's holding on to his hat. Yeah. I mean, and it's been, it's like, seeing, building that with them has been so cool and awesome. And then we're like, man, let's do another one of those. So we did, we did two more deals that year. And both those went really, really well to the same degree of growth as kind of that one did. And so that's why this is the topic I thought would be, there's two different ways.

One, I want to talk about the prestige lab saying because I learned a ton from you about all the things I did wrong. I think it would be useful for the audience. But in terms of the reason we ended up. selling was because I enjoyed that so much. And I, you probably, maybe, you probably have more patients than I do. Because I felt like I'd been in the gym industry for a decade. And I was like, I'm just, I don't want to be the gym guy. No, I get it. I get it. I get it. You know what keeps me here, dude? It's, it's the, it was the perspective switch. It was when I went from so like,

dude, it's happened for me in 2014. When I went from someone who was trying to become wealthy, which at this point I was at, at that time, um, to someone who was trying to help. Um, our own team and our own people. Like it became mission focused. That's where like dude, I love coming here, bro. Yeah. Like I love like do we have,

we have, you know, 10, 12 people a week that walk through here that have lost 100, 200 pounds, changed our whole fucking life. I don't know anywhere else where you can do that. Yeah. You know,

and you get to talk to these people and, and dude, I'm here with all these people who, who care about that. Yeah. You know, it's just a cool environment to be here. And I fucking love it.

And that's what keeps me in it. But I do, I do also. thoroughly enjoy the small business phase of growth, like going from one to many. I fucking love that. Yeah, it's the rocket. I miss that shit, dude. Yeah, because that's what I mean, yeah, this is a different game than 38x now. Like, I mean, yeah, yeah, over. It's not comparable. Yeah, right. Yeah. This, we went, we went through the small business. We went through the medium business. Now we're learning the large business, which is cool because I'm learning new. I'm learning new

things, right? Uh, I never ran a fucking company this big. Yeah. But dude, I'm telling you, man, like my sweet spot is right where you're talking about. I fucking love that shit. I love the helping people go from like, like I got a buddy in mine, Alex Spinozo, who, you may recognize him from the internet. He's all over the internet. He's got a good personal brand too. He started with us in Aratei, you know, 2018 or 19 when we started. if we go to my house later on I'll show you but he sent me his millionth dollar

that he made so like you know how most people will say oh oh that's cool dollar yeah he sent me his millionth dollar yeah and that he made yeah and a note and I framed it I got it in my in my lounge in my garage which where I spent a lot of my time yeah and then uh he sent me a he sent me a video message just the other day um it is just so fucking cool dude like this he sent me a dollar a while ago this is a couple years ago send me a message the other day. Now this guy at this point in time, like he's very conservative.

He's not like a guy that makes a million bucks and he spends it. Right. But he's a car guy's like I am and I know you're not. But, but I am.

And he sent me this video of this car that he built before that he built himself and he was talking about it and then he's like, and then today I bought this and he bought a fucking brand new McLaren. Oh.

And like, bro, I was just like, this is the fucking shit. Like this is the shit. This is the shit. is what I love doing. And whether it's with, you know, changing their life with fitness or weight loss or whether it's economically with entrepreneurship, that's the shit I love. I love that shit. So I'm a little bit jealous about what you guys are doing. Yeah. See, I mean, watching someone's

perspective shift around the world, I think whether, like you said, you know, weight loss, even some people were like, you know, religious and they get people into that or economically. Like, when you see, like, I think at the end of the day, like, the reason that I fell in love with Layla was that she saw the world the same way as me. And I felt like that was really rare. I was like, so you see that too, right? Like this guy is a total. And she was like, yeah. Yeah.

Totally. Yeah. Okay, cool. So you see that too. I was like, okay. Oh yeah, they're only doing that not because they like you. They're trying to get this up sound. Yeah.

I was like, I just like, I felt like this huge weight where I'm like, I felt alone. Yeah, exactly. You're not the only one of things like that. Yeah. That's a big, that's a big thing I'm thankful for for the people that listen to my show.

Because I know, like, like I know I'm not everybody's cup of tea. I'm very aware. Like I'm very fucking aware. You guys don't have to remind me. I know. I live my life this way the whole time I've been alive. But the people who consistently listen to the show and don't like, like they don't think I'm crazy.

You know what I'm saying? I fucking love that. It's one of the things I'm most thankful for. That's why I continue to do the show, honestly, because like some of the things aren't fun to talk about. Yeah. You know,

coming on here every day and talking about what the fuck is going on with these crazy motherfuckers in the world. Yeah. It wears you out. Yeah. But finding people with that consistent worldview, bro, and that perspective is fucking massive, dude. And to the audience,

I mean, just to give you some confirmation. Like if you think differently than your immediate family or your friends or whatever your hometown is, like, one, you probably don't want to be normal because if you take what normal means and put it across all aspects of life, it means that you're going to die at 74, you're probably going to be overweight, you're going to, you know, be divorced, you're going to not really achieve anything that you want. Like, that's normal.

And so it makes sense that you would be the odd man out because. most people live that life. And so like that was something that gave me a lot of permission to like be me, which was not normal in a lot of. And that's okay. Because I mean like ordinary versus extraordinary means that you are not. And so like if Andy sharing stuff on here that are different beliefs about the world, then it would make sense because like if he's in the 0.001% of earning potential that it means that he sees reality differently than you. And I think it's the same reason that people who are billionaires can lose it all and then get it right back. And the reason that you can't is because you don't see reality clearly.

Hence the name of the show. You know? I'd even like, I'd even connect, but like, yes. That's, it's about being a realist.

It's distortion. Yeah, it's moving the emotion outside of the facts and making decisions based on the facts. Yeah. And I feel like that's a tool that has become less and less and less common with more and more and more internet and more and more, um,

you know, propaganda in terms of, uh, making people believe that they're, feelings are what actually matter and how you should make decisions. In reality, that's not, especially in business, that's not going to get you very far. It's going to get you broke. So I appreciate that, by the way. Thank you for that. I just like, that feeling of loneliness makes you normal in the right rooms. Yeah.

Rather than the room that you're in. That's exactly right. Like, dude, you get around people, you know, you know how it is. Like, dude, and that's, that's something for a lot of you guys listening to like you may never have been in those rooms like ever but I'm telling you like when you when I go in a room none of the motherfuckers think I'm crazy yeah real talk they might think I'm I talk too much but they don't think I'm crazy also the many losses that you're probably going through right now if you're in your rocky cut scene like if you remember that video game thing it's like well then you're just you're tinkering away you're chisling away at the character traits that are going to make you successful and in those rooms that Andy's referencing like I don't

I'm trying to say this the right way but like game recognized game and I don't mean that in an egotistical way, but more so like how the other people in that room see the world, the things that we're talking about giving earlier, like all the guys who I know are the wealthiest in the world will do, we'll bend over backwards for you. You know what I mean? Yeah. It's completely the opposite of what the perception is. Yeah.

The perception is everybody that's rich is a piece of shit. My perception of it, now that might be true for people to inherit the money. It's totally different. It could be, yeah. But my perception is people who. people who have actually built their own wealth are usually, these are the fucking nicest, best people. And that's the reason they became wealthy. They had to develop those ways of getting along with people over and over and over again, because if you don't have leverage in the

beginning, which you don't, you have to overcompensate by being a great person, opening more doors, by giving first and getting screwed. And if you think about it that way, where it's like, okay, I have to give to lots of people for an extended period of time and I have to stomach the fact that I'm going to get screwed. Like you're going to get screwed. You have to stomach it. But if you realize that that's the necessary cost in order to develop the trait and open the doors that you don't get screwed, then you just have to see that as the ticket, right? And I think that for me, that was like a very big unlock for realizing that like when I got into those rooms, I was like, oh, I'm not the only person. It's the ticket. Yeah. Getting your ass kicked and getting

screwed over and over and over again, continuing to show up, continuing to push through, continuing to get creative and figure out the solution. That is the price of admission to that higher level that you're trying to build. It's not the abnormality. It is the norm for that level that you're going for. And while it may feel like it's abnormal, because it is, right? And the normal human being kind of keeps themselves. They're not overly generous. They're not overly greedy. They might give some to the church. They might give five bucks to the homeless guy or whatever. That's not what we're talking about. We're talking about when you have the means to make a difference and you continue to use your means to make a difference. There's going to be 80% of those people

that don't appreciate it along the way. And that fucking sucks. It really does suck. And I'm not looking for a tinker tape parade or anything, but just like, I don't know, don't pile on, you know, like don't make it fucking harder. I mean, And unfortunately, but fortunately, unfortunately, unfortunately and fortunately, it fucking hurts. But fortunately, it teaches you a whole lot. And I truly am bought into that mindset, you know, because DJ asked me, you know, we're together all the time. And he, you know, he sees this a lot.

Like he sees me do things. Yeah. He knows all the secrets. Like he knows the things that I've done and then sees those people do those things that aren't good. And he's like, why do fuck do you do that, bro? And I'm like, well, look at my life. life, dude.

Yeah. Like, I'm doing something right. So like, I really don't want to fuck with the recipe. Like, it's going well. I want to give a tactical tip. Yeah. So when I, you know, join these networking groups and stuff early on, like that gym owner group, things like that.

This is how you can employ that, like, in the real world. What I did was I reached out to every single person that was in the network. And what I did was I pretended they were a client of mine. And I had certain skills. Like for me at the time when I was starting out, the only thing I knew how to do was write sales scripts, build sales processes. So I offered every single person to go review all of their sales scripts, review their sales processes. And I did it like it was an actual project that I got paid for. And so I'd hop on the phone and I would have pages of notes, how I'd rewrite everything.

And they were like, whoa, dude, I thought you were just going to give me a couple. Like, dude, what you want them to say is this is too much. Dude, this is too much. Hey, Mosin, Asian, quick break just to let you know that we've been starting to post on LinkedIn and want to connect with you. All right, so send me a connection request and note letting me know that you listen to the show and I will accept it. There's anyone you think that we should be connected with, tag them in one of my or layless posts and I will give you all the love in the world. All right, so let's get back to the show. Because what happens is you stack something. You get an IOU, which is incredibly valuable. And it's one-sided. Like, you now gave them something and that can

come in handy later down the road. And for me, those are the things that I cashed in when I didn't know how to run Facebook ads. I learned something from that guy. But later on, a way deeper understanding than the one weekend workshop that I did. And I hopped on with a person and I had hopped on with plenty of others who've never given me anything back, comma, and that's okay. Because when I did need something, I did have somebody in my phone book where I was like, oh, I did that thing. I wonder if I could hit, I wonder if they'd help me out with this thing. And so what happens is you basically plug into everyone else's network and skills by giving first. Now, some of them are going to return the favor, but you're net positive on everything.

because if they don't return the favor, one, that's fine. Two, they're not going to anything bad to say. But now, obviously there's a piece of shit for sure. No, no, no. But it is okay. It is okay if they never get back. Right. Like, because, dude, keep going.

I don't'm sorry. I interrupt. I know where you're going. Yeah. Because, like, most entrepreneurs, we say we want to make an impact and help people. It's like, well, that's what that looks like. If you give something to someone and they don't give anything back, then it means you just gave to someone.

That's it. Great. Yeah. But congratulations. And if you talk about personal brand, wouldn't that be the brand that you'd want to build anyways. Yes. And so I got into this other networking group and they invented an award for me, which was a member of the year. They never did it, but they were like, dude, we just want everyone to do what you did, which is like, I hopped on every single person and I took every single call and I

treat it. And this is the big point here is like, you don't go on and show up at the call and then start thinking about their problem. You do homework before the call. Like, it's amazing how much- You just tweeted this. Yeah. You just tweeted this yesterday. It was, it was, you could, because, incredibly, you become infinitely more smart by just 20 minutes per preparation before the call or something like that. Yes. It's a truth. Be amazed how much, how much, that much that's what you said? Something like that's exactly. Yeah, it's exactly that. Like how much more intelligent you can seem with 20 minutes of prep. Yeah, dude. That was cool. That's it. Yeah. Because you've done it. Right. I had a call with somebody. And like, a lot of you guys probably

ask Andy, and I get this question all the time, they're like, how do I network with people who are above me? Yes. Right. It's a hard question. So number one is you don't ask them, what, value can I provide you? Because now you're asking me to do homework to figure out what you can do for me. That's me doing work, which I can just keep living in my life. What you do is you do the hard work of figuring out what can you provide to me that you have? And then instead of offering it, you do it, and then give it to me. And I'm not telling you to do that for me. I'm telling you, this is how I did it. This is how it works. Yeah. And so if you have someone who's ahead of you, do whatever your niche skill. If you're a fucking carpenter, then build the most amazing table of all

time and send it to somebody. And you know what they're going to do? They're going to get it and be like, this is too much. I can't believe somebody did this. And then what happens? Hey, sound familiar. That's, doesn't it? That's how he's here. You're explaining how he got here. That's the game. Like half the editors I have, they're like, hey, I went through all of your old clips that are on YouTube. I clip 20 of these short reels. This is what I did. And they sent them all to my, you know, my creative director. And he was like, oh, this kid's good. Now, mind you, if you're not good, That's also good feedback. And I will tell you this, that guy and most people would give you at least the time to tell you what you could do better because anyone will help someone who starts helping themselves.

Anyone will help someone who takes initiative. And if you over deliver it, and I'll tell you this, because when we're talking about that little room, that private room, the players recognize one another. And so like when I see the young guys coming up, the guys with the blue check mark and the Rolex and the like this isn't, I'm not. No, yeah. posing in front of the lambo they rented for the day, right? Or whatever. I stopped doing that a few years ago.

And by the way, they were never rented. Nine. Yeah, yeah. But like, those people only impress people who don't know what players look like. Yeah. Like, we all know that that guy is not a player. Because the guys who are players at their age

in 20s and they're in there, maybe 30s, whatever. Like, right at that stage, like, they're hungry, they're savages, and they're in the, grind and they're doing the work of giving first to as many people as they can over delivering, knowing that that goodwill will compound. And like, it's just like that that single skill has served me so well because that's how I've been able to get into rooms that I didn't deserve to be in was by just saying like, okay, what am I good at that I can help this guy out with? Well, there's, you've broken it down masterfully, by the way, to make it practical. But I also do

believe that there's an energy aspect to this, dude. I believe, because like, I, I live like that. Real talk. I live that way. I know you live that way, too. Some of the things I can't explain, though, like some of the good shit that's come back to me, I'm just like, this has to be for me consistently just doing this. And this is the word of mouth thing that I think is, like, wild. Like, I, I continue to be inspired by how much word of mouth actually matters. Like, it just, every year, I feel like it sets a new record in my mind for how. important it is because people right now like I see this all the time people like it's all about influencers and whatever like ensure like the tactics of ads and all this stuff like that's great

but the only thing that is still viral is word of mouth like everything else is linear in terms of the relationship like if you spend a dollar in ads you get x back if you do a cold reach out you get x back if you do 100 you triple it you a thousand it's a thousand to a thousand like whatever that relationship is that ratio it's fixed word of mouth is the only one that is exponential in nature one tells two, two, tell four, four, till eight. And so if you want to have an enduring business, you have to have the monster of word of mouth working for you rather than against you, who's building your reputation rather than eating it from underneath of your feet. And I think that like that stuff that you were talking about earlier where you're like, you're doing this

goodwill and it's coming back to me. I just see that as like the invisible hand of the word of mouth that just like, I mean, you've had it happen a hundred times, I'm sure, which is like, you go and you meet somebody like, dude, my buddy saw you at an airport and you like stopped and answered his questions and whatever. And mind you, to be fair, if I'm like somewhere and I can't, it's the thing that bothers me the absolute move, but sometimes I have to be placed. Me too, bro. I hate it. I hate it. I feel like I'm just, I do too. I feel like, like, dude, one time, and actually I became really good friends with this guy because of that exact scenario, dude. I had a guy, his name was Roman. I'm still friends with them. Good fucking dude.

Came up to me at a speaking event and I was like, he's like, hey man, you got time and I didn't. And I'm like, no, I can't. I can't. And, uh, and, uh, and. And, uh, and, and, uh, and, and, And dude, he was like, he had been going through all this crazy, like really bad stuff. Yeah. And then I, dude, it was bothering me. Like, fucking bad, dude. Like, I thought the whole time I was speaking, the whole time afterwards, I'm like, fuck. I got to find that dude because I got time now.

Weirdly enough, I was at another event and I fucking ran into the guy. And I was able to apologize and say, hey, dude, I'm like, and he was like, you know what, dude? I actually, that really really made me mad. I'm like, bro, I get it. I felt bad about it. You know, but that shit bothers me too, brother. And I think that for the audience, I think the bigger, like, sure the tactics that we're showing right now are like useful, but I think the biggest thing is like the perspective of

there was that person that bothered Andy enough that it kept kept him up at night. And I think that if you, if you can develop whatever that is where it's a splinter, because it's those thousand splinters that become the bundle that becomes a very strong stick that you can wield or it's wheeled against you. And like for me, like, I think about the products we built, right, in the same way where the only way to build an enduring company is either to sell stuff that people never stop buying from you or to build a company where people never stop selling for you. Those are the only two ways to build an enduring business that just continues to thrive over

and ever again. And if you're one of these guys who is in like, I get the get, because I actually came from the direct response world of like understanding how the arbitrage of like ads and all these where I started too, bro. That's where I started when I was 18. because you think transaction. I was writing fucking classified ads for a credit booklet that I wrote. Credit repair booklet.

Yeah. I was writing classified ads to put in fucking newspapers. Yeah, yeah. Like, we didn't have the internet. I'm a little older. But what happens is as you scale your, I'm going to get a little bit of higher level business, but hopefully you guys will ride with me.

Yeah, they'll get it. So as you scale advertising spend, you go to colder and colder audiences, meaning there's people who have less trust and they're honestly less of a fit than the warmest. Like if I was like, I'm going to only market a vegan powerlifting women who are moms over whatever and I had a product that was just for them, I'm probably going to do okay. But if I want to market to the nation, there's just a less of a fit with my product. And so what happens is your cost to acquire a customer goes up because ad costs will only go one way for the rest of time.

They will go up. And your conversion on future audiences that are colder will only go one way, which is down. So how do you combat two things that are inevitably going against you? You have to have one thing that is nonlinear in nature that fights that fight, which is word of mouth. Because when that one customer comes in and tells five people, it allows you to continue to scale because you have decreased cost of acquisition. I'm getting a little bit like business stuff here. But like it's the only way that it gets big. If what you want, if you want to grow something big, then having the strong word of mouth face, which is why like you can get into transactional sales stuff.

Sure. If you know how to market and you know how to set, you can become a millionaire. Like you can absolutely do it. You can probably become a deco millionaire. just by like learning how to sell shit. And I'm using shit in the true poop word. Like terrible. Yeah.

Terrible stuff that doesn't matter. Right. But if you want to achieve a certain level of scale, my recommendation is to continue to do the thing at a scale way below your friends until you figure out a way to get everybody who buys stuff from you to tell a friend. Like if this is a mental exercise, I like putting people like our portfolio CEOs through, I said, okay, the marketing gods have decided.

that you are no longer allowed to market, anything. And they eliminate all of your customers except for one. And every single customer from this point going forward has to come from that one customer. How do you treat that customer? And what happens is you start thinking like, well, shit, I would do this differently. I would do this differently. It's like, well, then do that stuff. And then what you'll see is that the result you get from the remaining efforts of your advertising will compound.

rather than continue to go linearly in the wrong direction, they compound in the right direction. And so, like, this has been something that's taken me too long to learn. And I'm trying to, like, ram this right now because I, because the biggest mistake that I made with Prestige Lab, just my supplement company, I'm glad we wrapped around, was that I treated the supplement business purely transactionally. I did everything that I'm telling you that I, not to do. I did it. That's why I'm telling you that it didn't work. Is that it was- By the way, that's the norm for the supplement industry. Right. 100%. So it's not like you were doing something abnormal. That's the norm.

another normal example of like, hey, if everyone else is doing it, it's probably not the best idea. But anyways, and so I basically built the whole brand off of transactional sales and teaching how to hardcore close because that was the skill I had. So I was like, okay, I'm going to hit it with my sales hammer because everything looks like a sales hammer when you're good at sales. And so I taught all the scripts, all the processes, how to set up the lobbies, how to get assumed closes and how to get people on subscriptions, all that stuff, right? The thing is, is that I, like, it actually happened with first form. So this is a plug for you. a close friend of mine was a first form athlete right and I was like dude sell prestige labs it wasn't because I was you know it's like we didn't know each other yeah and I was like dude sell my stuff and and and the commission

that I was paying was significantly higher and I'll give you the special homie like I just like come on like we're going to dinner let's be on the same team you know what I mean all the time yep and the thing is is that he continued to he and Hall and to this day he still sells first form and I was like I don't get it because I did have this really super doctor, like make all the products and like make them

except. Like that part I felt very strong about. And I knew my commissions were higher. So I was like, the products are very good. And you get paid more. And I just like, I couldn't compute, which meant that I had a distortion of reality. I saw the world in a way that it wasn't. And that hurt my business. And so when you're taking these lenses off and like, Andy's squeegeeing your eyeballs. So you can see things more clearly. The thing that I missed was actually the soft stuff. It was the brand stuff. Actually, my creative director sent me a podcast, my eighth podcast of all time, I'll tell you the title. Stop branding. Because I felt so confident about the fact that I was like, you don't need a brand. I was like, you need to run at. You need to

cold and cold call on cold outreach. Yeah, see, you're the guy I'm talking to. You're the dude I'm talking to saying, hey, use those skills to build a brand. Yeah, dude. And I didn't get it. And the first, like, and what's happened is it's like brick by brick, my belief in this first was like, okay, brand and the direct response stuff and knowing the hand to hand are equally important. But the longer I've been doing this and you've been doing it longer than me, the more I'm just like, it's just brand over everything. Because if the brand's right, everything else follows. And the reason that he didn't come over to quote my team was because like I had no brand or I had a negative brand, whatever we want to say. But like, I didn't have a brand that was a strongest first. He didn't want to associate his brand with my brand. Got it. And that was the thing that I just missed. I didn't get it. And so as soon as I learned that lesson, and it took me selling the companies and doing all the stuff to really reflect, like, what could I have done better? Like, that's why we built Acquisition.com. And I was like, I've, so if you think about getting customers, right, there's like eight ways you can do it. You can reach out to your friends and family individually. You can reach out to strangers individually. You can post content

or you can run paid ads. Those are the four things that one person can do. Leveraging other people, you can get referrals. So you get customers to tell people. You get affiliates. So you get other people who have businesses to refer their customers to you, you can hire agencies to go get your customers, or you can hire employees to do the first four, right? There's the only ways that you can get new customers. And I had built a business off of every one of them except for, off of content.

And so I was like with Acquisition.com, I'm going to build it off context. I don't know how to do it. So I'm going to figure it out. And it was only through building content that I understand that it was all about brand. Yeah. And what's weird is that when you do start building a brand or a personal brand,

you realize if you do, in my opinion, if you do it the quote right way, which is just give and you give and you give and you give and then you take a breath and you give and you give and you give and you give and you're like, wait, should I? Nope, you keep giving. You keep giving. And there's a, there's a popular say that Gary has which is like give give give give, sorry, dog. He says, jab, jab, jab, right. Yeah, that's what it's. Jab, jab, jab, right hook, right? I think that that's actually the perfect ratio for a mature platform. So if you actually look at television, the ad to give ratio, which is the content, the actual shows, is 47 minutes to 13 minutes. It's jab, jab,

Jab, jab, right hook. If you look at Facebook, which is a mature platform, it's three news, news feed, like from your friends and family, whatever, and then an ad. So that is the ratio for when you're maintaining your current level. But if you look at the platforms that are trying to grow, what is TikTok? Or when they were growing, they didn't have any ads. They just, it was all content. It was all give. And so the nuance, at least how I understand it for that strategy, if you're trying to build a brand is give, give, give until they ask. Which means that you just keep giving. And if no one's asking you, just keep fucking giving. And in my opinion, that's my whole strategy. Yeah. Yeah, as a person. All the players. Yeah. Yeah. We're

like, so there's, you've seen these ads in the direct response where they're like the, the secret, the one percent don't want you to know. It's horseshit. There is no secret. But there are things that the 99% refuse to believe. Yeah. Dude. Dude. Big facts on that. That's fucking gold. And so like, and I say this stuff because it, because it, I went, like you, I felt so much pain for such a long time because I just didn't understand the way the world work, especially as it related to business. And so, like, if you can build the brand, when you actually do it, as I've now, you know, been doing it, like, you realize that you were wrong before. Like, I can just tell you clear as day, you know that this is the right way to do it. And it's slower

and you eat shit for a year or two years or three years of you building it. And what you're doing is you're finding your voice, you're figuring out your values and you're learning how to actually because if every person who comes to you only came from just consuming value from you ahead of time, the type of the customer is different, how bought in they are, they share your values. And so it actually builds this base that becomes a pillar that you just keep, that just keeps expanding on your behalf. And it becomes kind of like, it's so little, it's too little for you to notice until it becomes too big for you to ignore. Right.

Like that's how compounding works. If you start, you know, you invest in the S&P 500, $100 every month, it becomes tiny and then all of a sudden it becomes unstoppable. You know what's crazy, dude, is, you know, I don't run ads on this show, not even for my own shit, you know, and when we poll people as to why they come buy our products, it's one of the highest fucking polling things. You know what I'm saying? They listen to the show. I don't ever talk about first form. I don't ever talk about any of the other things I do except in passing, but I give my shit away for free. Like, like, it's like, dude, you and I share that opinion.

Give your best shit away for free. I fucking do it. You know what I mean? Give away the secrets. Yeah. Just give away all the secrets. So like my- There's more tactical stuff that I can't really talk like like like when you start saying like dude this is higher level yeah you know there's level a level level yeah right and like I'm not going to have podcasts about that or I'm talking to this many people yeah but uh dude that's how I live man yeah it really is people like why don't you why don't you take ads why don't you do this why don't you do that because like dude that's like I know that if I come on and and share with you guys and help you guys you guys help me back and I think it's cool I think it's a it's a it's human nature there's actually science behind

I'm sure you know it too. Yeah. One of the interesting things that was a big belief breaker for me was I was actually really against making content for a long time. And it was because I actually saw the content as temporary. And I'm big on long-term stuff. And so I was like, why would I make a short video that's going to disappear in the newsfeed and never get seen again?

Like it just felt like a complete waste of time. But what I realized was that the media is not the compounding asset. The audience is the compounding asset. And so you feed the content to the thing that compounding. over the long run. And that was like, it sounds so stupid that like, or so simple, whatever, painfully obvious. I didn't get it. So that was why for years I never made it. Because I was like, why would I make content? Because it's going to disappear. It's like, but the audience doesn't. And they're the people who tell two people or four people, et cetera. And then that becomes the base.

And like, I'm sharing this right now because like it took me too long to figure it out. Dude, I think it's everything. And I talk to a lot of business owners too, who have an existing business, right? They have, see, here, here's the thing. This is what I'm thankful for in my own journey, is that I did start before the internet was around. I did start before social media was even a thing. And that lesson that you talked about where you say,

okay, you only have one person, that was literally how I did it. And I'm not exaggerating. That was literally, like the first day of fucking business, I saw one person. Second day, I saw zero. Third day, I saw another person. That person bought $23. It took me eight fucking months to have a day of $200.

Recently had a buddy who started his own business. He did $1,000 this first day. He's like, is that good? I'm like, bro, fuck yeah, that's good. Like, but before the internet, that was the real thing. That was the really how you did it. Like, that's how you do it. And so I try to communicate,

consistently and have over the, you know, the greater, you know, scale or course of my content over the years to make people understand that concept. And that how how amazing our opportunity is now with technology, if you can grasp that concept and you can translate it to this. Yeah. Dude, you're fucking on it. And like these people, they get, they get so greedy with the idea of I can gain 100 customers or 500 customers or 1,000 customers off a post or a sale or this or that. M motherfucker, you're missing the boat. You only need one.

And you should pour everything into that one as if it's the only one. And if you do that across the spectrum of your entire, now you have a machine that is compounding excellent story about you, a legend, word of mouth, however the fuck you want to call it, that's going to grow your. business. And dude, so many of these people that have these smaller businesses, they're like, fuck, that sounds like a lot of work, bro, blah, blah, blah. Dude, you, you're seeing, you, you, you see 50 people a day. Do you know what you can do with 50 people a day if you actually pour into them? Oh, yeah. Like, it's insane. And I've lived it. So I know, like, I, I remember, like, I went from one customer to zero customers. And dude, 10 years into our business, we still had days where we would have stores that wouldn't see anybody. Yeah. You know what I'm

saying like but once we figured this out like truly figured this out everything fucking change everything we went in the worst economy up until 2020 that it ever existed between 2008 2012 and it's all on the simple concept of what we're talking about dude it's it's giving first it's creating experience for people that is worth sharing um you know unloading value over value over value over value to the point where they feel obligated to use you, right? Which is what you're saying when they ask, right? Like when they say, dude, like when you're, how can I support you? Yeah, dude.

Hey, run my card for five grand. Yeah. Like that's that, dude, I have so many people to hit me up. And I appreciate the fuck out of all you guys. They're like, what can I do? What can I do? Just support my shit. Like, that's all I ask.

Like, if you, if you're going to get in shape, use our shit. If you're going to, you know, whatever, whatever business, you know, like just support the people to give. And I think it's, I don't know, man, it's, it's very, once you figure that out and it clicks, it's real simple. And it actually gets fun too because it's fun. Feels good. Yeah, dude, it feels fucking great. One of my favorite things about business is not the big business. It's not the money, dude. It's not like once you start, once you have enough money, it's like there's a, there's a, there's diminishing returns to have more. For me, that was. That was, was when I could go to a restaurant and not look at the bill.

Okay. See, I would order appetizers. Yeah. Dude. Really? Yeah. You being serious? A hundred percent.

Bro, this moment, my, I explained this on the show. So you guys are listening, you know this is true because I said this 100 times. My, my point to where it became diminishing returns. Like people think it's like my car collection, right? Because I'm a huge car guy. I have a great collection. That's just my hot wheels, bro. Like, that's just me as a kid living out my, you know,

know, little fucking kids. Yeah, it's cool. I fucking like it. If you don't get it, that's fine. You don't get it. Some of my best friends in the world is great for networking. You meet some of these people that you would never meet otherwise. There's lots of plusses, very little minuses.

It's cool as fuck to roll up and some badass shit, all right? But the point is, is that when you start to, like, consider how much joy you get back for making more money. For me, dude, it was very simple. It was being able to go to dinner with. whether it just be me and you or whether it be this whole room or whether it be this whole company it didn't fucking matter we go to dinner you go order whatever the fuck you want and i don't have to look at the bill to pay it that's after that like to me it made no difference like it

doesn't as long as i can do that dude it was now after that it was diminishing returns i mean did it make a difference yeah fucking makes a difference like i can fly private shit like that that's cool that's like a time machine i know you enjoy that too um but you know and there's something to be said for that. Like, dude, I can stand in my living room and two hours later be in Manhattan. You can't fucking do that without the means to do it. Like, it's, it's an incredible thing. You've experienced it quite a bit. You know, not bad. It's pretty cool, huh? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Commercial's tough. Yeah. It's, uh, it is tough. Yeah. Because this, the disparity between the two is, it's, it's, yeah, it's worth, it's worth,

get there. Yeah. The reason is price that way is because it's worth it. But dude, it's, yeah, no shit. Dude, the funny thing is, is like, it's after that, man, it becomes more like, what do you really enjoy doing? You know what I mean? Like, then it becomes a little bit more about the passion part of it. Like when you, when you have the means, then you can be a little bit more luxurious with your decision making about passions. Yeah. You get some cushion on mistakes. Yeah, for sure. I want to hard close the audience on something. Yeah, yeah. So we were talking about, you know, giving, making sure that the product is exceptional. Like, Because we, so those are, those are fucking, that's, those are automatics.

You have to do that. Like everything we're saying here, guys, like there's certain prerequisites that have to be met. Like your product has to be fucking good. It has to be what you say it is. It has to wow people. When they open up this motherfucking first form energy can, which I'm not about to do an ad for, but if I was, it would probably look something like this. Right.

Right. But the point is, when they pop that shit open and they drink it, it has to be fun good. shit. It doesn't matter how nice you are. And I'm going to sell you on why it's probably not, because some people were like, well, yeah, my thing is that good. If it were that good, they'd be talking about it. And you wouldn't have an issue getting customer. Yeah. That's my point. Because like, I used to, I used to not, like, I used to hear these speeches and these talks, people way ahead of me. I was like, yeah, yeah, yeah, my stuff's good. My stuff's great. I just need more customers. Right. It was always the thought process. But like, every guy who's like,

the best lawyers, they don't need to market. In fact, they have a waiting list and it's impossible to get in their best investment advisors. They have a waiting list. It's possible to get into them. Like, if you're very, very, very good, you don't have a lack of customers. Charlie Munger said, the next customers is on your desk.

It's the work in front of you. And so, like, I love that because it's like, that's where the next customers. He's like, it's doing the work that's in front of you, and they will always come. But the hard clothes that I wanted to have on this with product is if you actually, so we look at buying businesses. That's what we do, right?

And so we have to analyze the value of a business all the time. And so you want something that compounds, because if you're trying to create wealth, everything comes down to inputs to outputs, which is what do you put into a system and how much do you get out? And so the wealthier you get, you put less in and you get more out. And the one thing that all of us have is time. And so it's really like how much more do you get back for your time? And so if you have to sell, let's say, 50 customers every single month, then as soon as you're selling that many customers, if you have a super transactional relationship, right, if you do the same amount of marketing

and every month you sell 50, it means that tomorrow or next month, the day you're stop marketing, your company dies. That is not a very valuable business. And so if you sell 50 and then next month, you sell 50 with the same marketing effort, but the other 50 come back, you now have 100. If you sell the same, and the thing is, is that the marketing effort can be linear in nature, meaning you do the same level of marketing, but every month you get more and more customers because you treated the first ones right. If you aren't growing and you're doing the same level of marketing, it means the product's not good enough. I'm trying to sell you on this because I nodded along with so many times I'd listen to

these things. I'd be like, no, my product's good enough. The reality is that you're just not as good as you think you are. The market tells you. Yeah. The market tells you it's what you said a minute ago. 99% of people, what did you say? They won't believe, they've choose not to believe it. The market fucking tells you, dude. And if you do have a business and you do have customers right now and you have the fucking blessing of having people that are interested in your mediocre company right now, you should fucking understand that the way to really compound that is to improve your product and then improve the fucking story they're going to tell about you by overwhelming them with goodwill and positive resources around what it is that they're trying to solve.

I got criticized by, I'll just leave the nameless. I got criticized because I spent 3,500 hours. with my editor in total. His hours plus plus my hours for the book that's that's coming out. Yeah. And they're like, what's the name of it? $100 million leads. All right. Cool. In a few months. It's 99 cents. So there's my, there's my get rich quick plug. And I saw this with the first book because I spent a year writing that one too. And it was just me. And it made no sense. This is like I had Jim launch, I had prestige labs. I had Allen. We had the deals on the line. Like I didn't believe me, you

don't make money on books. So I just throw it out there. But what happened was you can spend a year writing an exceptional book. And I'm talking like six hours every day, the first six hours of my day when I'm freshest, et cetera, reworking only 160 pages, which is the first book. Right. And my launch for the book was a post when I had 10,000 followers, which is not a lot of followers. I just was like, hey, I wrote this book. Layla told me I should post it because I was actually going to make it an internal like document. Like this is how we think about making offers for all the companies. And she was like, no, like published it. And I was like,

Fine. So I published it. And from that day on, we have no ads. We have no anything to like promote the book specifically. And it sells more each next month than it did the month before every month. And it's now been 20 months, I think since $100 million offers came out. And now it sells 25 to 28,000 copies every month. Word of mouth. Sounds like a book I wrote called 75 hard. But it's exactly that. And so you can use it. it helps people, guess what? They're going to buy it. And so you can either spend a year or two years building an exceptional product, service, experience, software, whatever you want to thing, right? And then let your customers market it for the rest of your life. Or you can spend a month building a mediocre product or service and then the spend the rest of your life trying to get people to buy it. Dude, I did this shit. Like people don't understand. Before first form, there was other

shit I sold. Right? It just wasn't good. Yeah. It just wasn't good. It, you know, people weren't going to buy it twice, you know? And I think that's a big mistake most people make. And it's the inputs to outputs. Because everyone sees the year for the book that you wrote, right? They see the year. They see all the time you put into 75 hard, right? They're like, that doesn't make any sense. But if you think about how long life is, if the rest of time people are spreading that, the input to output of how much work it takes to spread the message and wider than you'd ever be able to do it if it was just you on your own. You get the highest leverageer from thinking about it from that perspective. If you spent a month on it and it was mediocre, you would have to pump it on every single

podcast and it still wouldn't sell as many copies as it does. And you'd have to do it until you died. Yeah. And so like if you're thinking about having high leverage or high return on your time, it makes more sense to spend more time making the thing you have actually exceptional. Keep doing it until people keep coming back and then the scale will happen. But like it's an input, it's like it's a math equation. How much of this do you, because like I have my opinion on this, but like how much of this do you feel like struggling businesses? Like this one idea that we're talking about right here to me and my personal opinion, bro, this would fix 97%. I'm making this up. But the vast,

that upper 95% of businesses could be fixed by just this thing we're talking about. In the converse of that, how many businesses that have exceptional the only thing that would drown a business that has an exceptional product is they'd be mispriced. It's the only thing like

their cost, like they can't, the economics of the business don't work. Yeah. That would mean that's the only, you know how easy it is to fix that? You change the fucking price tag. That's how easy that is. It takes two seconds. Right. Yeah. So if you want to have the like guarantee the insure, like you want success insurance? Like, what do I have to pay in order to make sure that, like, I'm always covered? It's make the thing exceptional. Yeah. And that's, the thing is,

is that most people are, undeniably fucking great is that most people don't understand how much actual effort it takes to make something exceptional. Like, you know, I look at some of the old presentations that I would make for my company and I'm like embarrassed. The thing is, I remember thinking when I looked at it, I was like, this is exceptional. At the time, that was probably the best you could do. Yeah. Yeah. And the thing is, is that at the, the end of the day, the market's the one who makes that decision, not you. So I might have, and I think is I probably was listening. That's where the fucking disconnect happens, bro. Because you think, you think, because it's the best that you did, that it's fucking great.

Yeah. But in reality, the market says, no, it's not as good as everybody else's shit. I heard some motivation. That's real shit, man. Dude, it's huge. Yeah. It's, um, I never thought about that until we just started talking about it. Like you, like, you, because that's the best that you can fucking offer. You assume it is the best. Yeah. Because it's You are best. Yes. Man, fuck. That's some powerful shit.

I heard this guy say this and I just like, it's been like ingrained in my head so much so that whenever I don't want to do something, this is the actual phrase that comes in my head. Is that he says, he said two sayings that I love. One was that he's like, boys are confident men are certain. I just wanted to share that because I just love that saying. The other thing is he's like, it's not about doing your best, it's about doing what's required. And whenever I have a hard thing like, I can make more videos for content or whatever, I don't to do this podcast, whatever it is, like literally my immediate thought that's like my subconscious

is like, I will do what's required. Yeah. Like that's always my initial thought. And so right now, if the thing is, if the thing's not as good as you think it is, right, and people aren't coming back, like you might have, you might have given it your best, but you didn't do what was required. Dude, I'm sitting here thinking because like I'm going through this phase right now. That's very helpful to me personally. Thank you for saying that. Because I'm going through this phase right now we're I'm very financially comfortable like forever it is what it is um and like some of the shit that is required yeah it's not really required right yeah fuck that's some powerful shit because now I'm like fuck dude it is kind of required it's not required because of you

motherfucker it's required because other motherfuckers depend on you yeah yeah so like because like dude my purpose is not me right purpose is not me it's these dudes It's these people out here. It's, yeah, it's these people listening. Yeah. Right. It's fucking, man, that's some good shit. You're smart dude.

Yeah, bro. I fucking love that.