The Game with Alex Hormozi - Throwback: Pricing, Positioning, and the Art of the Upsell | Ep 378

Episode Date: May 29, 2025

In this episode, Alex (@AlexHormozi) gives pricing advice to Sam Earp, a content creator helping people learn how to paint. Alex shows Sam how to structure his high-ticket offer by anchoring it against his more affordable membership.Welcome to The Game w/Alex Hormozi, hosted by entrepreneur, founder, investor, author, public speaker, and content creator Alex Hormozi. On this podcast, you’ll hear how to get more customers, make more profit per customer, how to keep them longer, and the many failures and lessons Alex has learned and will learn on his path from $100M to $1B in net worth.Wanna scale your business? Click here.Follow Alex Hormozi’s Socials:LinkedIn | Instagram | Facebook | YouTube | Twitter | AcquisitionMentioned in this episode:Get access to the free $100M Scaling Roadmap at www.acquisition.com/roadmap

Because if you start with the five, you can downsell the 500 or whatever, 29 times whatever that at 460 or whatever it is, that probably anchors really well. And just say like, you're just not going to get the one-on-one component, but you're going to get all these other things. And I think that's actually fairly compelling. So today is a deep dive. What's up, Sam? Hey, how's it going? Great to meet you. Thanks for having me here.

Really appreciate it. Pleasure's mind. I'm coming in completely unknowledgeable and ignorant. So we're going to derive these solutions in real time together. I know Kirby is a admin on your community, so we actually get a little bit more stats that we can pull up on the screen, which I think will be fun. With that being said, give everybody the 60 seconds. What's the community about? So let's just start that. What's the community about? Yeah, absolutely. So the whole community is about teaching people to paint. So a lot of them are artists, as in they paint like landscapes. That's the thing that I like to do. I've been one, yeah, you know, been doing that on and off my whole life. But anyway, it's a whole people. people improve their painting. So you could be a complete beginner or we've got a lot of experienced painters, but they've just, they've just hit roadblocks with their painting. And this is exactly what happened to me many years ago until I got a mentor. So the aim of the group is to just help

people to improve their painting so that they can start selling and making money from their art. Okay. I've got three communities in total. So we've got the free community. I've got a high ticket. mentorship program which is like an art accelerator and then we've got the art school as well which is the the monthly low ticket group i do a live painting class every week and plus there's loads of painting tutorials got him what's the high ticket what's the price well it all there's not really so much of a set price it depends on what you feel like well no no not what i feel like it's it depends on how long you want to work with me for i recommend people like work work with me for a year and I charge around 5,000 US dollars for that. So we not only,

we not only help them with, we do a lot of paintings. So it's like two painting classes a week. And they're, you get one on one. Yeah, they get one on one with me as well. And a lot of the people in there, they, some of them just want to improve their painting skills and nothing else, but some of them want to actually like make, want to be able to make a career out of their painting. So we also help them with, you know, building an audience on social media. Yeah. At your price point of $5,000, if someone were to tell me, hey, you want to learn how to paint and it was $5,000 and you work with a guy for a year, that seems like a reasonable

price. That doesn't seem like, like, I know you have the elements. Some people want to paint so they can also sell their paintings. I understand that. But big picture, I don't think it doesn't sound like that's the primary hook. Correct me from wrong, though. Yeah. Yeah, probably.

Okay. $29 a month community. for people getting in, either learning to paint or, you know, trying to advance in their painting. And so for everyone listening, $29 is the middle, $5,000 a year is the top and free is the bottom. Okay. So what's the delivery look like at like small, medium, large? So what does it look like for free? Just keep it as tight as you can because I want to dive in.

So the free community, you're getting some painting tutorial videos and videos. So they're longer than what you would get on YouTube. So I've got a YouTube channel as well. Okay. I'm going to get into the advertising side in a second, but just tell me. So you have free tutorials. What else do you do in there? Well, I mean, yeah, it's mostly, as in just in the group in general, as in like the runnings of the group or as in just in terms of time? What deliverables does someone get for the free community? They basically get a catalog of full painting tutorial. That's fine. That's fine.

Okay, 29 bucks. What do I get? You get even more full painting tutorials, but you also get. More. Even more. but you get a live weekly painting class and the painting class I've been running it as courses so like eight to ten week courses. So you could be a complete- You just upload them as modules that continue to add to it. Is that correct?

Yeah, so it's like I'm making the courses like live on Zoom and then add them afterwards. But you could be a complete beginner having never painted in your life to just attending one of my courses and already having a load of knowledge by the end of it and being able to make a start, like a really good start with a solid foundation in your painting journey. Got it. And then, and then the $5,000, they get, how many one-on-ones do they get with you? I haven't, I haven't set the number on one-on-ones. It's just been as and when people

need help. So we do two painting classes a week, so it's a lot more intensive. But what I've found over the last year of doing this is there will be periods of time where people might need a lot help and I might have to do like a few one-on-one calls with him and then there'll be times where you know they they won't need any help at that time so I don't have a set number on the actual one-on-one to me and at this stage where I'm at I kind of don't want to say oh you know you can only have this amount of one-on-ones of it I want I'm trying to sort of tailor that side of it to what that particular client needs if you see I mean and everyone's completely different as yeah especially as I'm finding understood

So you do it on demand or as an escalation, right? They have an issue that you escalate them. That's fine. Yeah, exactly. I mean, I'm saying back to you. So free group gets, so your YouTube is short videos. Your free group has long tutorials. Your $29 has more long tutorials plus one live class a week with lots of people on it.

And then for the $5,000, they get two classes a week, which significantly fewer people on it. And I'm guessing you're teaching cooler stuff. I don't know. And then if they need help, you hop on with them one-on-one. Yeah. Got it. And how are you selling people from 29 to 5-K? So what we do is I've got a few ways of gathering leads.

So I give away a freebie on my YouTube channel, on my website and Instagram. Yeah. And then we get them into the free community. Yeah. And then we get conversations going in the DM. So I've actually now got someone doing setting for me. So I was doing it myself before. and then the aim is to get them on a discovery call and and then we see if they're a good fit

if they if they're not a good fit or they we find out if they probably don't have the funds at that point in time then we we try and sell them on the art school the 29 yeah yeah the 29 yeah and then if they if they are a good fit then they'll get them on a sales call with me and then I see if they would like to join the, yeah, the art mentorship program, which is the painter's mastermind. So the painter's mastermind,

it's their own private school group. Heard. Yeah. So right now YouTube is your primary source of advertising? Yep. Follow by my website. So YouTube goes to website or YouTube goes to community? YouTube goes to the sales landing page.

So they all go to the same landing page, which we feel on system.io. Got it. So you have a little opt-in page. Copy my blueprint for Payne. Yes, success. Cool. You have an image.

Get instant access to the blueprint for free. Got it. Value it at $97. I plan to start charging for it soon. Okay. Next step, just let me know. If you're curious from a compliance perspective, adding a value where it's not justified,

isn't compliant, just as a side note. Oh, okay. You could say like, I just, like, it's free for now. I'm planning on charging for soon, and it probably will, it will probably do the same on a conversion.

Okay. But it would probably be more compliant, just as a side note. So then we put is it name and then email. Okay, get instant access. All of this I like. If I were to run a split test on this, I would add in three benefit driven bullets and test it. And I would put them below the button.

And I would see how that does. Because oftentimes, like, I've just like you've got, you've got your 80% 90% on that. Like it's a pretty clean page. It's pretty straightforward. I would just test that one as just like an easy lift. Do you know what your conversion on that page is? Actually, you know what? I haven't checked it lately.

let me just have a look. While you look, confirm with me the rest of the journey. So YouTube goes to the Lander, Lander they opt in. Then I'm guessing you thank you page, join the community, and you email them to join the free community. Is that correct? Yep, that's right. And then also we get them into an email sequence.

So I have a CIO helping me. He's also called Sam. And he's created like an email sequence. So I think we've got like about 100, like 100 email. So we basically got a load of my old emails because I always tried to send out value a lot of the time. So we're able to repurpose those. How big is the list? It's well over 9,000 email subscribers at the moment.

9K on the list. Great. Love that. All right. So YouTube, Lander, follow up and thank you page goes to free group. Great. When they join the free group, they fill out some sort of mini app. That's what you're saying.

And then your guys hop on the phone with them. see if they're qualified. Does that sound right so far? Yeah, yeah, through the, through the message in the in the DMs, yeah. Okay, so they go DM to phone, got it. And then, and then basically they have an AB path, right? So path A, if you're qualified, you can talk to Sam. And if you're unqualified, are you trying to sell them into the annual for the $29 month month one? Yeah, I try and do that, yeah. Okay, good. Because if you start with the five, you can downsell the, the 500 or whatever, 29 times, whatever. whatever that at 460 or whatever it is, that I think would probably, that probably anchors really well

and just say like, you're just not going to get the one-on-one component, but you're going to get all these other things. And I think that's actually fairly compelling. Like if I wanted to make the 460 by primary offer, I would probably present it the same way you are. Because basically the $5,000 just becomes like, if you're a whale and you want to, you really want to ball out and you want to have the personalized attention, you know, you can pay the $5,000. But basically like the $460 is the core offer. Do you know what percentages go into each bucket of the people that you, that your team, talks to? I don't actually. Worth, worth knowing, but okay, that's fine. So, and, and you've got, uh, was it like 300-ish in the, in the $29? Yeah, there's, there's a lot of people in there that

have, that they did a one-time payment to start with. Yeah, when I started the school group, which was, uh, yeah, it was in 20, 23, actually. At the time, I was, I was completely broke and I moved over from Patreon and I sold a lot of like, uh, one time, you know, lifetime access. It got me back on my feet and it's led me to where I am today. I love it. I love it. You're good. Okay. So now that I have a good lay of the land, what's the goal? What do you want to do? Well, my goal is to carry on inspiring people to learn how to paint. What I'd like to be able to do with the whole, what I'm doing now, the whole community, the school groups and everything is I'd like to be able to sort of build out a team,

I would like to also pivot in the long run to helping more artists to be able to make a living online from their art. And obviously, like, helping them to improve their painting is part of it. Yeah. So, I mean, one of the things I feel like I am qualified to do is to, you know, like help people, like build an audience, make, like, digital products from their art. Like, I've sold painting tutorial videos as downloads from my website. and books and stuff. And then and also like be able to show people how they could create their own like community, their own school community where they can have like a monthly membership.

That sounds like a totally different business. Yeah. So you have three communities and you teach people out of paint. So rather than teaching people how to teach people how to paint, I think sticking with teaching people out of paint for now is probably the right strategic move. So yeah, yeah, at the moment. Yeah. That being said, what's the.

the goal with this business. Numbers are helpful because you're already making an impact so I can't change anything about that. So what basically you've got 20 people in your $5,000 things. That's $100,000 a year. And you've got 300-ish people at $29 a month. I know some of them are grandfather from Patriot or whatever from the one-time payment. Let's say half of those are new. Would you say that's fair? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Definitely. So you got 150 people paying 30 bucks a month. Right. So you're looking at $4,500, $5,000 a month that comes in and recurring from the membership base. Yeah. Got it.

So you're basically... Yeah. Yes, you've got like 8K that comes in from the top. I know it's because you're charging $5,000 at a time that it's lumpy. I get that. But average $8K a month on the top and you're averaging like $4,500 per month on the bottom. Yeah. So you're looking at that...

I was going to say, do you mean in terms of financial figures, what my goals? Yeah. Or if you were like, I want to get to a thousand. I mean, any of those would be. Oh, yeah. I mean, I have those goals. Like, you know, I want to get my, I want to get that low ticket group. I want to get to like, you know, 10,000 subscribers or more.

You know what? This is in some ways a bit, I've been having to work a lot of my mindset in the last couple of years. And it's something that I think has really helped. You know, that's really been what's holding me back. But thinking in bigger numbers for me as well is still uncomfortable. but, you know, is it wrong to say, you know, I'd like to be pulling in 100K a month or more? Nothing wrong with wanting to make more. But for now, you're doing 13, 14,000 a month, ish somewhere in there.

Between the two groups, yep. Yeah, between the two. Yeah. Let's just say, you know, 30 is kind of like milestone one. It's a double, double from where you're at. And then there's a triple from there that gets you to 100. So I think in doubles and triples oftentimes just in terms of like, what do we need to do in order to have that happen? All right.

Yeah. So because the thing is, it's rare that. one thing will tend to, I mean, if you find it, that's awesome. But a lot of times, like, you'll get them from multiple doubles and triples. That's where, like, you get the big numbers. Okay. So now that I have an idea of what's happening, one of the data points that's really important here that's missing is what percentage of people who go to the free group or the paid group and what close rates are on, on the phone for A or B. I don't have solid metrics, but I spoke to my setter this morning. He reckons he's getting out of 15 people that he pitches a call to only to like actually,

jumping on a call. And one of the things he says he's noticed is that the artist kind of group is very different to say like a demographic of like, you know, entrepreneurs, aspiring entrepreneurs. So they're probably a little bit harder to get on a call with just the nature of artists in a way. I wouldn't, I wouldn't subscribe too much to that. I'll bet you there's a messaging thing. Just because like you want to talk about, you know, beliefs. Like that's probably not. Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, yeah. Exactly. Yeah, that's true. Yeah, that goes for everybody who's listening to this. Like, explaining why this isn't at you say, I'd be like,

everybody like explaining why your group doesn't make you money or doesn't want to buy your stuff. Like, not going to serve you. Okay. So one out of, so 15 people join the, the free group. He DMs all of them. Now, is that when he gives you 15 turns into two calls, right? No, no. So it's as, no, so it would be way more. that is when when the conversation's got to the point of would it be helpful to jump on a call yeah out of the 15 people that he gets to be able to like say that in the chat around two people actually like jump it on a call basically got it how many people join to get to that like i'm trying to get conversion metrics here so like yeah yeah absolutely i reckon we must be

getting about at least 60 a week okay let me just check my metrics you're good 60 per week 60 per week week and then how many, well, we can reverse engineer this. So if you're getting 60 a week. Oh, no, actually more than that. So in the last week, we've had 151. Okay, in the last week. Great. In the last week. Yeah. Let's just say 150 is the last seven days. Fine, this 20 is a day. And then he tries to start conversations with all of them, right? How many of them get to, like I would, I would want to know how many respond because I don't know how many people respond, but I would know how many respond, how many get to the, basically the offer. I reckon at the moment we're probably getting about two or three a week, but it's really,

it's gone in waves, basically. We've had one day where he had like five calls booked in a day. And we were like, right, let's see how we could do this so that we could do this every day. But then it's really been down. Yeah. How much transparency do you have into like what he's doing, this guy, this setter? Because right now he's kind of like the joke point of the business, because you got 20, you know, 20 leads today, think about it like this. You got 20 leads a day that are coming in.

And per day, how many appointments would you, is like, how many appointments would you say happen per day? Phone call. When you say employment, you mean messages that are sent? No, people who, people who like schedule a call. It really very, you know, probably probably about a couple. Maybe not, maybe not even that at the moment. I mean, he, he is new, but he is like all over it. If you say, I mean, he's, you know, actively messaging you. So I believe totally in time that's, that number's going to go on. Do you have any idea how many, how many calls per week if that's easier? I reckon, I reckon he's probably getting about four a week at the moment. Calls like that he's taking. He's like calls taken is four per week. Does that sound right? Yeah, just, yeah, as in actual discovery calls

booked. Yeah. Yeah. Real quick, guys, I have a special, special gift for you for being loyal listeners of the podcast, Layla and I spent probably an entire quarter putting together our scaling roadmap. It's breaking scaling into 10 stages and across all eight functions of the business. So you've got marketing, you've got sales, you've got product, you've got customer success, you've got IT, you've got recruiting, you've got HR, you've got finance. And we show the problems that emerge at every level of scale and how to graduate to the next level. It's all free and you can get it personalized to you. So it's about 30-ish pages for each of the stages. Once you enter the question, you get to the question, you know, you can't

answer the questions, it will tell you exactly where you're at and what you need to do to grow. It's about 14 hours of stuff, but it's narrowed down so that you only have to watch the part that's relevant to you, which will probably be about 90 minutes. And so if that's at all interesting, you can go to acquisition.com forward slash roadmap, R-O-A-D map, road map. Okay, so here's the cool part. Like, I'll always keep asking as I go through this because I'm looking for big, big lifts. That's a big one, because that means that right now you're getting 3% of the people who were coming for free to get on a call. And I think that you might be like, if I'm looking at kind of standards, you can probably get to 10% buying. And so there's a huge

amount of lift there. So that's, that's it. And of the four that get on the call, do you know what percentage by? At least one. At least one. Well, I mean, it depends because, because, so I'm doing the actual sales call. I mean, I closed someone last week for my high ticket, the same time I also closed, well, I mean, I sold someone on an annual membership as well. So they didn't buy the high ticket, but they bought an annual membership. You had two sales last week, one high ticket, one annual on the on the. Yeah, and I'm pretty sure I only had two sales calls as well. Okay. So that was a little, even, even a little bit less, right? So when he's setting, though, he's setting for you. So he's setting via DMs. He's not taking a call. You're taking

the call. And then you downsell. You basically sort them. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So yeah. Got it. So you closed 100% last week. What would you see your normal close rate is? I reckon a good 25%. And last week was just a good week, though, because you closed 100% last year. Yeah, yeah. Like definitely if I or when I get more calls. Yeah.

When I get more calls, I'll be able to get a lot more. Yeah. So, okay, I'm going to bet that, like, I mean, there's a lot of things. Like, I could go into the advertising side. but the thing is that like if I find a massive win then I will probably just focus almost all my attention on that. So there's one huge one here and we'll get to it. But okay, let me just let me just quickly look at YouTube because that's where all your traffic's coming from. And then we'll go from there.

So the vast majority of people are not buying the $29 thing on the page. 366 members, can you look at conversions on that one for me? Yeah, sure. I've only been advertising the paid group in my free. community and in my emails. Got it. So you have, so you have eight signups in the paid community that happened this last week. And that just happened straight from people clicking from one to the other. Yeah.

You sold one annual last week. So there's that. But besides that one, the other seven came just kind of organically ascending themselves. Yeah, from the, yeah, from either email or the free community. I haven't been advertising this group publicly on YouTube. I've just been advertising a freebie. So yeah, my conversion rate for last week was 2.69%. Yeah, I'm less concerned about that right now because the traffic source is your free group. What are you doing to ascend people from the $29 group into the 5K? So when I'm on the call, I pitched the 5K one first. And I'll ask the question so you currently have people come to the free thing because that's what you push them to. And then your guy sorts them. And if he sets them, he says them, he says,

sets a call for you, you anchor at five, then you, if they say no, then you downsell annual. If they say no, then you downsell monthly. That's how it is right now. Got it. But last week into your $29 thing, just because you have this large community, the $3,600 or whatever, and the free community, you got seven people who just went to the page and just chose to buy for $29. Yeah. What are you doing to talk to those seven people? Yeah, you're right. I haven't been doing a lot. I do at the end of my painting class ask if anyone wants help art mentor or that's where I pitched the art mentorship program at the end of my

lives every world. Life class. I mean, now that you said that, I could be doing a lot more in my community. We'll get there. There's actually a load of those people that paid for the lifetime access that I could go and message. Yeah. We got some stuff. We got some stuff. I'm still learning here, man. This is like up until you.

You're great, man. Dude, you're an artist. This wasn't the, this wasn't the job. It's fine. That's, uh, no, it wasn't. I just, I never imagined, like, if you'd have asked me 10 years ago when I, when I, when I first quit my job and I had no idea I was going to make it work, I, I had no idea I'd be doing this. If it makes you feel better, I'd do this for a living.

So don't worry about it. Okay. So, um, okay, now let's go to the advertising and I'll bet you we can pick out some stuff there and then, uh, and then, uh, and then we'll go into the kind of the solutioning side, all right? Yeah, cool, man. All right, sweet. Okay.

Can you go videos, uh, recent. Yeah. You know how I'm going to do. Okay, recent. Okay. Good. Well, you get some good views, man. You get really good views relative to your subscribers.

So that's good. So you're, yeah, 56K subscribers you're getting, it looks like, call it 10K video. It's really strong. Okay.

Yeah. Yeah, really good. I've been working on my titles and thumbnails. I, I, uh, yeah,

uh, you know, been getting help from like Harry and Kai, who've been helping me in my YouTube videos. So, no, it's great. Let's,

let's just click it. Okay. How to paint, loose but realistic coastal scenes. All right, let's do it. Struggling with stiff photographic landscapes that are just killing the life of your paintings and also making them look flat. Well, in this video, I'm going to show you how you can loosen up your brushwork by using

the paint medium gouache. And I'm going to be painting a coastal scene. Now, what is gouache paint? Well, basically, it's opaque watercolor, but you can get some really great. results with it and some nice vibrant natural looking colors. And I'd like to preface that I'm mainly an oil painter, but I do sometimes paint with gouache. And I've actually found that it's helped with my oil painting process and to loosen up my brushwork. Now, I've only been painting with gouache for a few years. And as I say, I mainly paint with oil. So here's the good thing.

You've got three things that are going well with the intro. We just need to add a couple. So you've got You've got a promise, right? And you actually hooked with pain. So if you're struggling with this thing, I'm going to show you this thing. So that was like you had those first two. A little bit later, you got into like semi-proof, I think. And I think we can tighten the proof part up, which I'll explain in a second. There isn't a roadmap.

And so I think that's, to me, that felt like the biggest thing that was missing. Because I'm looking at this video and it's however many minutes it was, but, you know, decent length. And as me trying to put my viewer hat on, I'm like, where am I? going from here. Okay. So I want to know kind of like what the road like what the road stops are. And so I think it might be useful for you to, you know, maybe if you have like a fountain pen or because it's a little artistic or you know, you'd know this better than me. But like yeah, you have you have your pain and your promise. Great. Proof I would pull way forward, which is like,

I help thousands of people paint every day. And, you know, I've been painting for 20 years. Like you want to get it really tight. Like I would practice it. So it's like, my name Sam. I have helped over 2,000 people paint their first painting, and I've helped people go from beginner to advanced. And in this video, I'm going to cover six things about gouache. And I wouldn't even mention that I normally painted oil because, like, you don't want to discredit yourself. Right? Like, like, and so we're going to cover, number one, how to how to frame the scene better.

Number two, how to hold the brush in a way for two different styles. Number three, you know what I'm going at. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I think lead with that roadmap, I think will make a big difference in video retention. And you want that to all be covered within the first like 15 seconds. We paused at 48 and we want all of that to be covered in 10. I'm okay with the fact that you're showing that you're painting. I would love it if it flipped to you for a second though.

I think that might be helpful. Just because also long term, it's like we want to build your brand. And so I think that might be kind of worthwhile. On the summails, you've been working with Kai and, you know, Kai's good. But something I would consider is I would consider having to learn to paint these. So like think about it like this. The benefits that you have inside of a thumbnail are going to be something around risk. So like stop messing up, right?

Something around risk, something around speed, right? Like do it faster. Do it in less time. Maybe these are taking forever. Do it in less time. Or do it easier. Right. Yeah.

And so I would experiment. I would experiment. Just run one see how it does comparative. and you should be able to turn on, I think it's turned on on all YouTube, but there's an A-B testing. Yeah, yeah, I've just found out about that. Yeah, so I would split,

I would split test no, no copy because they are paintings is what your current thumbnails are. So the three kind of concepts I would be looking at are pure plain painting, number one, plain painting with three words or less in terms of the words on the screen

because you don't want to take too much away from the painting, but you want it to be clear. When you're actually reviewing your thumbnail, texted yourself on your phone, because that's going to be how small it is. And so it happens is a lot of people who design thumbnails, design them on these big screens, but that's not how people consume them.

So you want to, like, it's the easiest hack in the world. Just send yourself a text of the icon, and then you'll actually see how few words you can really put there where people can read them. And then the third concept that I would test is actually just a picture of your face, kind of maybe with a brush, and then the paintings in the background.

because then again, that's going to get you like you more exposure long term rather than, because this looks like a faceless YouTube channel. Yeah, unless that was... No, I know. It's not at all. In fact, actually my older videos had my face. I do like an intro and an outro

and then, you know, I realized I was spending like two, three minutes doing an intro by which time everyone's clicked off. So yeah, if you go to my earliest videos, yeah. I mean when my hair was long. No, your hair was long. No, that's all good.

Okay. So big picture, we need to double down on roadmap. You need to tighten up the time up front. You need to know what your introduction is, like you personally, that you can frame for your proof. Ideally, you want the proof to be relevant to the thing you're talking about. So one is I've helped thousands of painters. That's kind of one level of proof. But if you're like, I've helped thousands of basers paint gouache and it's one of the things that I enjoy doing in my free time or something like that, then now I have more relevance to the proof. Right. You want it to be as relevant as possible. For example, just an idea is you could also think about like have you sold i'm sure you've sold paintings before right yeah yeah yeah absolutely so um i think even just saying like and i've sold many paintings that are gouache right because then it's like not just i'm not just like saying i'm good like people have bought my paintings and i think that that kind of helps uh kind of bridge that guy okay so that's that's youtube stuff can you uh kirby can you click in real quick to the video just i can look at the description free landscape painting blueprint okay so yeah so that's my call to action in the video yeah okay

and do you do the uh do you integrate a cta within the video yeah i yeah what i do is usually about like halfway or three quarters through then then uh yeah there it is got it okay okay so i'll say this um we've found first third is uh because you'll probably get twice as many people to see it. Okay. Because you're because you've seen YouTube, you know, retention curves kind of drop slowly. Yeah. I want to do it up front because it's weird. You haven't done anything yet. But like at about a third, it's like you provided, you know, sufficient value that you can get, you can do take 20 seconds and just be like, by the way, if you like this. Um, and the key part is that you went with the CTA, you want, again, you want to integrate it to something relevant that you

just talked about, right? Okay. No, it's not just like a commercial. Like, you want to, you want to, You want to make it as, basically, you don't want even to feel like a commercial. You wanted to just be really natural. And inside the blueprint, what I would do, because you're showing the digital. Yeah. I would do is I would print the blueprint out and I would flip to the page that, you know, corresponds to some technique or something that you're showing and be like, so what I'm doing right here is actually on page 17 and show you opening and be like page 17 of this blueprint.

And you guys can have it. It's free. you can just click below the link you'll get way more people who will choose to opt in if you start doing your integrating your ctaes like that kirby let's go back to the uh that's a brilliant yeah that's a brilliant idea all right let's see here scroll down in this tutorial i show you so you do custom descriptions uh free to them yeah i've been using i i've been using ai i've been using a i've been using that i i've been using that i i've been using that i i've come up with titles and hooks for my videos and descriptions as well that's fine all right um mean what

website. The rest of this stuff is whatever. You could do a, you could have a pinned comment, which you can do on every video. And ideally, you want to do it right after you post it because then you're, because if you're the creator, they're going to like yours the most and you can pin it. So the reason I like pinned comments for YouTube CTAs is because if you change your descriptions in the future, which I'm a, I mass change all my descriptions at once. That's kind of how I do my stuff. So I feel like, whatever I'm promoting, that's what's going to be in my description. But then the pin comment won't change. So it's like if you have stuff that's relevant to your video, I would just make it the pinned first comment. And then that way you can basically take the big wave of YouTube traffic

and point it wherever you want, you know, when it's when it's appropriate. Does that make sense? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Okay. Next thing is there's a feature on YouTube now that two things. One is that there's in video pop-ups that you can now put in. And so I would put your lead magnet as a product that after you show it, it just stays in the bottom left corner so people can click it directly on the screen. And then secondarily, you can incorporate products underneath underneath, right? And so I would at the very least do the first one. It's just have the blueprint sitting right. And just leave it there for the rest of the video. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I mean, it doesn't that YouTube's, I mean, YouTube takes care of their audience. Like it's kind of, it's tucked away to the bottom left.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So I would, yeah. So we'll do that as well. All right, great. So let's go back to your landing page. The thing is, do you have any metrics around this? You were pulling those up. So where are the metrics for this page? So my COO manages the managers, and I'm still finding my way around the system,

but unfortunately I can't. So for the free, yeah, the free landscape painting blueprint, until we've got 4,822 people from that. Okay. Yeah, but what's the conversion rate? Oh, as in conversion into the free community. No, well, I mean, that would be great too, but like how many clicks go to the page, how many of them opt in, how many of them go to the free community?

Like, that's the funnel basically leading to your free community. Yeah, okay. That I'm honestly not sure of. I'm not quite sure I'll find that out. Okay. Well, whatever the landing page software is, I promise you they have a conversion rate metric that you can find. I can see how many emails were opened and total clicks. So it's like 65% and total clicks was 44%.

Okay, that's good. That's fairly normal for like a welcome sequence. So you're not missing anything big there. I would want to know what the conversion rate of the pages though, because that's where you're literally sending all your traffic there. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. One of the other considerations I'd have for that landing page, I told you the three bullets underneath. One of the other things I would consider is split test that, because you have one image. One thing I would do is show one image, but show like two behind it and above, two behind it and below.

So there's five images. So just show some of the techniques. It's like open it up a little bit. You know what I mean? Rather than just the one image. And so I would test that out. And my second alternate would be you. like if people recognize you from the videos

did your first like you will for sure if you add your face to the page you will increase conversions if they're coming from you yeah absolutely okay cool all right so that's that's conversion stuff and i think all of those things could could measurably improve the amount of traffic that you're that you're getting so let's let's talk about all right good so we have 15 so let's talk about the three big ones big whole so we did all the youtube stuff we did some some tiny tweak stuff but these are these are are going to be the three biggies, right? Yep.

So big thing number one is we have to improve your conversion on your free offer to call. And actually, I'm going to say these in order of priority. Priority number one is those seven people per week that are signing on that you're not talking to for $29 a month. They should get an onboarding call for free immediately included with that $29. So that's any book, you seven more sales calls a week. Right now you're taking like two. So like that can triple your business like that. Yeah.

And what we want to do is I'm sure you have some benefit for them subscribing to annual. Do they have some sort of bonus or thing that gets unlocked when they subscribe to annual? Yeah. Usually I've been giving them a free coaching call with me, like free hour long coaching call. Sure. So I would take. So take that, right? And every one of those 20, people, I would offer one, two calls, whatever in order for them to subscribe for the year. And I think, and if you wanted to, if you wanted to be crazy here, you give them a one month trial of your high end. If you want to make, like, if we want to get these people, they already paid 29, they

already took their wallet out and said, I want to learn more. And so you say, how much more do you want to learn? Do you want more time with me? Because here, think about like this. You're going to give them one or two calls, right, one on one. Each of those are basically sales opportunities. You're not closing, but you're building trust, right? If they also have the two live classes per week that are happening at the at the

5,000 level, like they also have that like you're basically using up the the high level one-on-ones figuratively as using the two onboarding calls or sorry, the two follow-up calls as they just get a free month of that. Now, some of them might be like, well, shit, I want to keep doing this, in which case, then you can convert them in the back. down sell, you just get the annual. Cool. So that's still not a loss. Okay. So that's like immediate money number one that can triple. So that could take you maybe from like if none of the tweaks, if you didn't do any change in tweaks to do the YouTube and all the stuff we just went over. If you just did that, that could take you to like 30 or 40. Okay. That's just number one. All right. Number two,

you're getting four out of 150 people who are joining the free thing to get on a call or less. Right. so we have to fix that. So what we need is, I'm assuming that he doesn't have, like, we need to sell the call. All right. And so, because right now it just sounds like, how serious are you, do you want to talk to Sam? That's what it sounds like. That could be wrong, but that's what it sounds like the script looks like. So, and given these kind of response rates, that's what I assume is.

So we need to give something like you gave them a lead magnet, which was the blueprint to get them here. We've got to give them something else to get on the call. So I think within the free community, what you can do is you can say, hey, when you hop on the call, we're going to unlock half of the stuff in the free community. So half of it's locked, half of it's unlocked. And the reason we do that is because we want to show you the best place to start and make this a better experience, whatever. Now, you can bring that up to people after they say they have a pulse and a credit card or whatever. Like they answer the first couple qualifying questions.

Then we say, cool, if you want to find out how to unlock that, we can. do that for you, right? And you can hop on a call. So that could take you from like four calls a week to like 20. Like that, that could have a great big. So literally in the classroom, I'd have like a load of those modules like totally locked. Yeah. Until they've got on the call and then you can manually unlock each person. Wow, I never even thought that's brilliant. So as I say, I'm still, I'm still need all this. This is just like great. You're doing great. Okay. So number one is the really easy one to do, that'll take you almost no time, which is we start hitting the $29 people try to send them. Those are going to be the highest likelihood, warmest people,

because they were in your brief thing for a while, elected on their own to sign up. That's great. If we want to increase the likelihood that that happens, though, I would put a little, the first module that you have in there. After you have your introduction, do do a five video VSL, so video sales letter. Yeah. So that basically, part of their onboarding is to kind of go through. And the five video VSL I've talked about in other stuff, but it's origin story. You had that mentor who taught you. Like, that's a perfect story. You walk through the journey as though you were them. And then you say, now that I've been on the other side, I can show you what I found. Right. Yeah. So this is for the $29 group, this one.

This is actually for free. Oh, on the free group. Okay. You can also do the same thing for the, for the $29 thing. So because both of these are just going to be sales conversion things that were, they're just forever salespeople sitting there that some percentage people are going to go there. And then that's video one. Video two, three, and four are going to be the, just basically the biggest obstacles that people struggle with for why they don't buy. But you're going to frame it as an educational thing. And then the fifth video is going to be basically an invitation to the next thing. And you'll mention again, whatever free stuff they get for the next thing in that fifth, that fifth thing and put the link below for them to schedule a call.

Where they schedule, you can have them fill out like on the actual scheduler, have them fill out their stuff and you can just choose to disqualify people if you want to. All right. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. And you can put that qualification in the video so that it doesn't feel like you're just, you know, canceling people. You just like, hey, you have to meet these qualifications to get here. Whatever. Okay. Those are just like easy things that we can do to the existing communities to just push more people through. So back to the, so that, so we're starting with the 29, the 29 ascensions. Great. We're going to add the VSL in. Cool. We're going to add that also into the free the free group. You're going to add the lead magnet to the call, which is that half of these things are going to get unlocked if they get on the call.

So you can get way more at bats to book calls. All right. So the last thing that I want to hit on is you have these 9,000 people, right? If you want to have like a big cash pop, you know what? I could get into that, but like I kind of want you to just do this stuff. I think this is enough because we talked about a ton of stuff on YouTube that you, that you'll have to switch up. We have the free to paid.

and then we have the paid to more paid. We have the stuff that you're going to be making inside of the community. We have the landing plate split test that you're going to do. We have the new intros. Yeah, I think you've got work. So that should take you. But let's sum it up, though. Because right now, I think you could very well go from five out of the,

sorry, four out of the 150 to like 20. Like that's a 5x, right? Yeah, yeah. You've got a triple. sitting on the $29 to $5K that you're not talking to the other seven people every week who've already paid you. So you've got to triple there. So putting those together, it's a 15x from where you're at. So that's your 100K per month. Like, we can do that. You can do that right now. And then in terms of increasing the top of funnel, the two big levers that we have are

improving the intros and thumbnails for YouTube, adding the pin comments in, right? So that you have the CTA that's always sitting there. When you're doing the integrated CTAs, actually printed out and show it to them. And then when they get to the landing page, they should also see your face and some of the other images inside of it. And I would bet that that would increase the close rates. And so, sorry, the opt-in rates. And so the last piece that I'll give you is this.

You need to put tracking in place so that you know click all the way through. So basically, I'm going to say them quickly and you can watch this recording later. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. You need to know how many clicks are coming from YouTube, number one. So whatever close you're going to that link, we need to see that. You can put a UTM parameter on it. If you've got some tech guy, he can do it for you. All right.

So that's going to go to your landing page. We need to the opt-in rate or the conversion rate of the people who are taking in the PDF. So we'll get that piece of data. Then we have percentage of people that are coming straight from the thank you page. Okay. So right here, put a picture. So this thank you page. Put a picture of your community, like your community landing page so that they know where they're going.

Because what it'll do is, going to increase the opt-in rate of your community because they'll see where they're going. So it'll be more congruent of a customer journey for them. Yeah. That makes that. So we're not going to see it here. You're just going to see a higher percentage opt-in on your community. Now, the next piece of data we need is two, because it's going to split, which is what

percentage of people are clicking from emails and what percentage of people are clicking from here? Because that'll give you a good idea of like, okay, wow, most people are coming from the thank-you page, not my emails. Okay. so I should focus on my thank you page more. Or, you know, everybody's coming from email over the long term. Maybe I need to make my emails better, whatever. Okay. The next metric that you're going to want is the conversion rate of the of the free page, the free about page, your free community. And then we want

percentage of people who go basically through the funnel there, which is people who respond, people who book calls, people who show, and then people who close. That's what we want. Now, because you also have people who just choose to opt in straight for the $29 because they can just buy it on the page, I would just have a separate set of metrics that's just like what percentage of people who opt in for the 29, book a call, show, and buy. That makes sense? Yeah, absolutely. Okay, cool. I feel like we can make out of money. Absolutely. Thank you so much for this, Alex. I really appreciate it. Batman. You bet. I appreciate being on school. Awesome. Yeah, this brought to you by school.com.