The Game with Alex Hormozi - You Can't Lose If You Don't Quit (w/ Ed Mylett) Pt. 2 - Aug. '22 | Ep 476

Episode Date: December 24, 2022

And so I was so afraid of losing that, just not quitting became the one thing... Today, join Alex (@AlexHormozi) as he guests on Ed Mylett’s Show to talk about the kind of mindset he had when he was at one of the lowest points in his life, what is scarcity stacking and how the concept of FOMO is being used in business. This is part 2 of the interview.Welcome to The Game w/Alex Hormozi, hosted by entrepreneur, founder, investor, author, public speaker, and content creator Alex Hormozi. On this podcast you’ll hear how to get more customers, make more profit per customer, how to keep them longer, and the many failures and lessons Alex has learned on his path from $100M to $1B in net worth.Check out the episode on Ed Mylett’s YouTube Channel!Timestamps:(1:35) - Belief contradictions coexisting within.(3:26) - Alex's focus during life's lowest point: Controllable aspects.(8:42) - Exploring the "Scarcity Stack" concept.(14:05) - FOMO creation: Scarcity and urgency as key elements.(20:05) - Marketing and product creation intertwined; skill development insight.(26:50) - Would Alex revisit past struggles given the chance?Follow Alex Hormozi’s Socials:LinkedIn | Instagram | Facebook | YouTube | Twitter | Acquisition

there is an actual cap on your business as it currently stands. You're just not articulating it because you're afraid of saying, well, if I can only take 10 people, then they'll think I'm a small business or whatever. But if you said I only take 10 people, even though it is your actual cap, it has a very different feel to it. The wealthiest people in the world see business as a game. This podcast, The Game, is my attempt at documenting the lessons I've learned on my way to building Acquisition.com into a billion dollar portfolio. My hope is that you use the lessons to grow your business and maybe someday soon, partner with us to get to $100 million and beyond. I hope you share and enjoy. I think that duality is super powerful.

So that's why I wanted to stack them. We're talking about other stacks in the minute too. Stack them back to back. Because I think you can hold two thoughts at one time. I think you can have this concept about your life where you want to reflect on the final days, yet have tremendous freaking urgency in the moment, right? And have concepts that move the needle every single day of your life. Why do I say that?

I think there's two types of people right now on the planet. There's the seminar goer person who's all in the thought. in the clouds about reflection and energy and this and that and the other thing. And frankly, they're not getting around to making their life matter day to day. Then there's the people that you and I used to be, which is we're making our life matter every single day, but we have none of the energy, the spirituality, the concepts of time in our life. And so I think the duality, the complexity of those two things, the contradictions is what makes this conversation the most valuable. Can I add one thing to that? Please. So I, in the comments on YouTube,

things like that. I know that a lot of people struggle with that concept. And so I want to give a different example that I think might drive this home. You already do believe multiple contradictory things at the same time. You believe in justice and you believe in mercy. You believe in variety. You believe in consistency. And so there are these yins and yangs that exist and it's not to say that the white part of the yang or the black part of the ing is right. It's understanding the middle path. And I think wisdom is knowing when to do what. And so it's when am I using justice versus mercy. It's not that justice is right and mercy is wrong or mercy is right and justice is wrong. The wisdom allows us to walk in the gray and be comfortable and select which is appropriate for the moment.

Oh, brother. So good. Yesterday, I was coaching someone who used to lead a pretty big country, a big one. And we had this conversation. He said, you know, when I was really at my most productive, I operated out of fear often. And now I'm constantly forcing myself to operate out of gratitude and abundance and all these other things. And I said, sir, the truth of the matter is it's knowing when. to select those mechanisms. Fear is not necessarily a negative emotion. It's the abundance of it that

can become negative or too much of it. But if you never leverage fear, heck, fear helped me prepare for this podcast today. I don't want it to bomb. I want it to do great, right? So there's leverage in everything and wisdom truly is. I love what you just said of knowing which lever to pull when and knowing when the right part of it applies. So good, man. Again, I'm sitting here in front of a 32-year-old. I don't mean to, you know, for a lot of people listen to this, they're like 32 is old. I'm 23, right? So I want to make sure that I don't use my own age bias. But at the same time, I think I had many of these thoughts when I was your age, but I certainly don't have the ability to articulate them like you do.

And I'm super, super impressive. I just want to acknowledge you because you're serving millions of people right now. Also, I think you could serve them with parts of your story they don't know. There are people listening to this right now that are failing. They're bleeding money. And maybe they've just had a business shut down. Or the last two years has wiped them out a little bit. Or they're looking right now going, all right, I'm going to have to make a pivot.

So you're a guy who had a lot of sense. success building gyms. It was really, really going well as I understand it. You go over the next one. You pour all the juice from all the profits into the next one and you go bust. So there was a point where this man that I'm talking to right now, by the way, not that long ago was busted. You were broke. What did you do when you were on your ass? Were you on your ass mentally ever? Or was it just a physical being broke? And then what did you do to make a move? Because there's a lot of people right now, right where you were. I just focused on the controllable. So there was a lot of things that I felt like I could not control or that were circumstantial, et cetera. And so it was just, it's kind of like

the simplicity thing of like, what are the few levers that I have at my disposal? And at the time, I was like, I know how to market and I not to sell. And so that's what I'm going to do. And so I, I, the story is crazy, but I had a credit card left from all the businesses that I had sold and then lost all the money. But I still had the credit card and Amex, thank God, had not actually changed my credit limit. So I had a $100,000 credit card. And I, I, I wanted to launch gym launch, which was like this turnaround business where we'd fly out to gyms. And so we had six guys that I'd already recruited and I thought this cash was going to be there and it wasn't. And so I put $3,300 a day on a credit card and I only had $1,000 in my bank account.

And so every day I was becoming $3,300 poor. And when we started that, I didn't even have a payment process of because we got shut down. And that was where the extra money was supposed to come from. And so we were doing, it was 3,300 day in hotels, airfare, ad spend, rental car, pretty in food for all the sales guys who were out on the road like doing the gym turnarounds and I could not process the money that they were sending contracts over from and so I'm seeing these contracts stack and stack and stack and I had no way to process it and I'm just watching this debt bill go up and I got a processor the last week of the month and it was only for 50 grand and we had like $300,000 in contracts and I had $100,000 in expenses but he's like hey it's per month which means on

the first of next month you can run another 50 and so I ran 50 on like the 28th of January and then I in 50 on February 1st. I got two more that week and got us another 50. So the two 50s back to back covered my 100K from the last month. And that was like kind of like the plane coming under. There's like way more of me about to lose it like and losing it again and again after that. But I can go as deep on that side as you want. Well, like where were you mentally? I mean, were you mentally when that's happened? You're like, my dad was right. He's got me. Or were you like still I'm going to prove him wrong. Oh, I was. So I had made the decision that I would either die or I would succeed. And so I didn't

when it would happen. I just figured if I continued. So I, I, I, so if there's one thing for the audience, if anyone who's going through it right now, the refrain, the repeated message that I had to myself over and over again was, I cannot lose if I do not quit. And so it was, that was under my control. Then when I talk about like controlling to controllable, like, I could choose not to quit. And so if I could just have that, then it meant, like, it was like this tiny little thing is like, if I don't quit, I didn't lose. It just means I still get to play. And when you think about like, I think, I can't remember if he's Aristotle's or Plato, but he says, like, you shouldn't judge a man until the day he dies. And so, you know, you've an amazing life. And then the last

five years, like, everything goes and you get executed publicly. It's like, wow, would people say it a good life or bad life? Like, you can only judge after the man's debt. And so I also think about that within my own life now. Like, when you think about, like, what's the leverage for the next, for the next chapter, it's like, well, I'm not dead yet. And so I got to keep going, because that's what, you know, that's what we're going to look back on. And so I had this little thing that I could protect, which is my willpower. And it's just like, if I do not quit, I cannot lose. And so I was so afraid of losing that just not quitting became the one thing. And so if I just kept moving one foot at another, one phone cough or another one sales appointment

after another, I knew that if I did that long enough, eventually it would turn around. And I could like, I'll be it up to get myself out of this situation. Yeah. Wow. I'm blown away because I have equated only losing with quitting all of my life. And the reason for that is, I just want to share it because we're going back and forth. My dad, my dad was an alcoholic when he got sober. I said, Dad, are you never going to drink again? He goes, I can't promise you that. I'm just going to quit for one more day.

I'm not going to drink for one more day. And many, many times in my business, I'm like, I can't, I am incapable mentally right now saying, I'm never going to quit. That's a like 80-year decision based on a bunch of crap right now. But I can decide not to quit for one more day. And that means I have not yet lost. I literally equated quitting with losing. And so no matter how behind in the score I was, I had not officially lost the game.

The clock has not run out until I go, I quit. And so I was still in the game. So this concept, I just, I love when someone said stuff and I put it through my life barometer, my meter. I'm like, nope, I did that. You're exactly right. I know someone who did that. You're exactly right. What a great answer.

Now, you're talking a lot about stacks. By the way, can you guys, if we did a show, by the way, this question. quickly through stuff before like, bam, bam, bam, bam, let me get more in your brain. I almost feel like I'm using you today. You know what I mean? Like, I'm just working this dude through the whole show. But it's great to have somebody on that I could just keep working for my audience because this is my family. Sometimes when you're talking to somebody, I'm like, all right, let me help you along here with this. With you, I'm just like, go, go, go, give him that one, give him that one, give him that one. And I love that about you. The stack stuff is super cool to me. And I love the terminology

you. So now we're going to move a little bit back over to marketing and branding and all that kind of stuff. You have this thing called the scarcity stack. I'm a big believer in this. I just literally did a real estate deal based on the premise that you teach. Now, I didn't call it this, but I don't think people get the concept here at all. And I think it's one of the lost art forms in marketing, and you describe it in a modern way. So what's the scarcity stack? So If we think about all exchanges as forces between supply and demand, right, within a marketplace. And I think the more cycles I have in entrepreneurship, and I understand that I'm still young in the game, the greater and greater appreciation I have for those simple two forces of supply and demand.

And what's interesting is that you can influence demand or you can artificially stimulate demand by marketing stuff, by making increasing awareness about your thing, right? And so more people find out about it, so your demand goes up. And so that artificially shifts the demand curve in your favor, and so you sell more stuff, right? The other side is not nearly as well used, and I think is almost as powerful, if not more powerful than the demand side,

which is how can I cut supply? And the first time I really saw this happen in person was I was at an Arnold Schwarzenegger charity event at his house, and they wanted to introduce me some of the big donors because we're big donors. And the guy was a jewelry, like, mega dude, right? And so he had, and he was like a, first generation from Serbia,

hard dude, but he sold like, you know, $500,000 watches, things like that. And they had just raised the prices for the charity event from $15,000 to $25,000.

And the charity organizer who made the introduction was like, yeah, we listened to George, she told us to do this thing. I was a little nervous about it. And he just said it so matter factually, he said, whatever demand increases,

he said, cut supply. And when you look at what Chanel and Louis Vuitton and some of these, all these luxury brands do, is like they are masters of scarcity. And so, when you can get someone into a FOMO situation

where they fear missing out, you can actually trigger this incredibly emotional decision and what happens is you decrease the action threshold. And so you have a person who normally wouldn't take action. And so the scarcity, the fear of missing out on this opportunity decreases their threshold of taking action and they walk across the line. And if you use this concept of scarcity

and use it within your business, the way I like to think about is that, so whoever's listening right now, you have a business or even if you're if you're a salesman, whatever, if you were to 100x your volume tomorrow, you probably couldn't handle it. And so there is an actual cap on your business as it currently stands. You're just not articulating it because you're afraid of saying, well, if I can only take 10 people, then they'll think I'm a small business or whatever. But if you said I only take 10 people, even though it is your actual cap, it has a very different feel to it.

And what happens is you now actually pace your business at a point where you don't overextend yourself. and you create a stronger pool of the customers into your world. Real quick, guys, you guys already know that I don't run any ads on this and I don't sell anything. And so the only ask that I can ever have of you guys is that you help me spread the words so we can out more entrepreneurs, make more money, feed their families, make better products and have better experiences for their employees and customers. And the only way we do that is if you can rate and review and share this podcast.

So the single thing that I ask to do is you can just leave a review. It'll take you 10 seconds or one type of the thumb. It would mean the absolute word. to me. And more importantly, it may change the world with someone else. Here's what I like. If you can listen to the concept stuff and then do the hard work, those you that are listening or watching this, to the application in your business. So this scarcity idea, you go, no, no, no, I'm in the protein business. So we have unlimited amounts of protein. Maybe the scarcity isn't the product. The scarcity is at the time. Meaning that

if they don't hurry up and start doing it, every day they fall by, like saving money. If you're in the financial services, but you go, no, no, there's plenty of these contracts for investments or insurance. Yeah, but every day they don't move forward, there's a scarcity of time that they can make up for with the compounding of money. So getting the concept of FOMO or the limiting amount of it or how few people do it absolutely increases value proposition. So so, so good. For the salesman in the room or in the room, think about it in terms of the opportunity cost or the cost of inaction. And so the nice thing is that you always have a cost of inaction that's amounting. And so that will typically stack in your favor as the salesman with every second that

passes. And so all we have to do is direct the prospect's attention to the cost that is already happening, but they are just not aware of or focusing on. And so we just direct the attention. And then all of a sudden, what was non-existent becomes a problem. And so you see this in politics all the time. Whatever they're talking about more becomes the hot topic of the election, but it's only because they're putting attention to it, not because people actually care more or less about it. Right. They're telling us that we should care for us about it by the attention they're putting towards it. And so this is media or masters of this. And by the way, these things work so well, everyone, that you have to leverage them ethically. Yeah. This is one of things I just want to say up front because these concepts of scarcity and phomo, it has to be ethically stated and truthfully stated because long term, if you push these levers the wrong way, you'll destroy your reputation if there's not a factual basis for what you're describing.

Okay, a couple more stacks. I'll give you a quick. Oh, no, please. So there's two elements of trying to create FOMO, besides, like, risk reversals, a whole other thing with guarantees and things like that. But there's scarcity, which is a function of the number of units. And then there is urgency, which is a function of time. And so a lot of people say scarcity and urgency, but they don't know the difference between the two. And so, it doesn't matter how many units I have, the deal ends tomorrow. Yes. Right. And so if you can't introduce that. And so I'll give you an example of like, well, we have protein. It's like, well, you have protein, but I may have a Valentine's Day special that is ending this week. And then next month, I might have a spring special. But the thing is, is when I'm articulating into a prospect, I can say, hey, this particular promotion ends tomorrow or ends in two days. You should get this starter to get your loan application in because, like, I can't guarantee that as soon as we get into the spring, springtime, we're going to have the same things, right? And then with the scarcity component, it's a function of units. And what you were saying earlier, there's always a way to think about it. Like with the protein, like, I thought of a different example.

I thought of flavors. I was like, oh, just have a limited flavor. Protein's going to be here, but this particular flavor will not be. And so it's like you can always, or you can put scarcity in terms of the bonuses you add. So it's like, hey, I have proteins and they're all vanilla. I was like, but for this month, I'm going to be adding a free workout or a free workout template or a nutrition template that I'm going to add with my protein, which I'm not going to be giving next. So then what you can do is you create these additional value ads, which no one else is doing.

And then with the additional value add, you both add value and create scarcity at the same. time to urge the person to take action. Very good. Sorry. No, no, no, please don't be sorry because that's informative even for me. Listen to me, everyone. This is, I told you, you're going to get stuff on today's show. This is why I do the show, by the way.

I want to provide a value and a depth of insight between two people communicating that you wouldn't get anywhere else based on their experiences. And here's the thing on this. Listen to me, everybody. It is your ability to take these concepts that are absolutely surefire and find the applications in your own life, get them with your team as well. I have to tell you, in business, I have found that the principles are sort of enduring over time. This FOMO concept or scarcity concept is as old as time.

Technology, timing, marketing changes the application and the mechanism of what you deliver it. But this is not a new idea. It's a new idea for 99.9% of you because nobody talks about these things anymore because they haven't done the hard work of how does this apply now? How does this apply? Warren Buffett, you and I both still take advice from a guy who is double. my age and I'm already old because the principles that this dude teaches are timeless. It's our ability to apply them now that separates us in our life. Trim and stack hack. What the heck is that? I wrote it down because it's a cool term. So when we're thinking, and this is if you have more control over the services that you're selling. So this tends to be a little bit more on the service

side. You can still think through it from any commerce side, but I'm just going to apply this the service gets easier. So the first thing that we like to do when we're thinking about creating a new product line or when I say a new service line, we think about what are all the problems that our prospects are suffering from and what are the things that are coming up on sales calls that they're saying they're struggling with or they wish that we could solve for them. And the way to think through this is tactically, what has to happen step by step by step. And there's a hundred mini steps. Like you think, oh, yeah, we do these two things. If you really chunk down and zoom in and look at the, it's like, well, first they have to click

this thing and then they have to integrate there or whatever. And then there's all these micro steps. And so we list out all of these problems. And then we translate those problems into solutions. And so we word it as solution wording to the problem that we are solving. And then once we have, okay, these are all the problems that we're now solving. These are the solutions. Okay. Now, how do we deliver on these solutions? So we can think about this in terms of like we could have, we could have a portal that does a training. We could do some sort of one to many thing. We could have a semi-private or small group. We could have it be in person. We could have it be remote. We could have it be a phone call. We could have it be a chat support. So I have something called a delivery cube,

which kind of goes with this in terms of how you get into levels of service. So on one level of the cube, you have what is the ratio of the people? So like, like I said, one to one, a small group, one to many. You have the speed of response. So it's like, is this going to be, we respond instantly or is this a we respond in 24 hours or we respond by the end of the week? And then is the quality of the service. Are you going to just get a frontline support rep? Or are you going to get a VIP, you know, concierge? And then the medium of that service, which is, is it Zoom? Is it in person? Is it a phone call? Whatever. There's a cube, and I go in more detail about it. But when you're thinking through this, you think through those variables, how you're

going to deliver the solution. And so we had the problems. We have the solutions. And then we think about how we're going to deliver the solutions. Okay, there we are. Now, when we think about that, we then write, what's the cost of delivering this solution? And so then we look at all of those things, and we say, okay, if we had to prioritize just the ones that these people find extremely valuable and that are low cost for us, what if we just combined all of those and then took out the rest of them? So all the things that provide tremendous value

and happen at very little or no incremental cost to us. And then that is what we will package together and then we'll bundle that whole thing as a much bigger problem solving solution. Then when you put those things together and then you add some scarcity, you add some bonuses,

you decrease the risk with some sort of guarantee if you can. If you add some sort of urgency around acting, then you have what I would consider a very compelling offer. And if you have a compelling offer, it makes it very difficult to be poor because what happens is when you make offers that people feel stupid saying no to, they tend to say yes. And when people tend to say yes to offers you have, you tend to make more money. And if you did it and you designed your offer in a way that you provide a lot of value and it costs you very little to do it, you make lots and lots of money.

And so that is the idea. And we try to repeat that action as many times we possibly can. Yes, that's a sort of business. Yeah. No, but you step back and look at it. You take these very complicated things that make them simple. And to you, it's like, yeah, it's just. But what you just described is actually called four years of business in college, right, distilled into like 90 seconds because that's exactly how business works.

I have this other theory right now that's gone by the waistside in business and it just blows my mind. And that is like, at the end of the day, I want my existing clients to send me or customers to more clients and customers. And of all of this stuff, it's like I'm blown away by how little time. And I mean like almost none. with independent contractors or big old companies spend on the product and the client or customer experience with you. What did I feel? What energy did I get that would make me want to tell someone else you should have the same

experience I had? They spend all this time on everything other than that thing, which is the only thing that will cause your business to grow without your effort afterwards. So I want you to talk about that. This is like my favorite topic. I'm very excited about this. Okay. So I'm going to quote Navavakon because I love this quote.

He says, you only sell because you don't know how to market. And you only market because you don't know how to build a product. Let's break down to things to the basic units, right? There's only five ways you can get more customers. Number one is you reach out to people privately. So you cold call, cold DM, cold email, whatever. Right. The next one is that you make content that attracts people to you.

They find your stuff. They discover it. Right. The third is that you run paid ads. Right? And then the fourth is that you get a, affiliates and partners who are other businesses who serve people like your customers and refer them to you. And then finally, customers tell other customers. Yes. So here's what's interesting

is that if you think about when we talk about leverage, so this is going to come full circle, which is great. The first four that I discussed have linear, they are linear in nature, meaning if I make 10 more dials, I can predict how many customers I'm going to get from that, 10 more reachouts or I spend 10 more dollars on ads or I make another piece of content. It's relatively predictable in terms of what's going to come back. It is a linear equation. You add more in, you get more out. With a quadratic equation, you get an exponential. Unfortunately, in entrepreneurial space, people are like exponential, exponential, they say it a lot, but they don't know what it means. They really just means it multiplies, which is not what exponential is. But with a referral or a customer telling

another customer, one person tells two, two tell four, four, four tell eight. And so one of the difficulties that I see a lot of businesses get into is they get to $3 million or they get to $10 million, they get to $30, especially like consumer products, there are constants in business. One is that the cost of acquiring customer will go up over time because impressions will cost more money and you'll have more operational drag on your business. And so if those two are constants, then you have to have an opposing force that cannot be linear in nature that's going to contradict that. And so if you are in a consumer-based business, the only one that can counteract a one-way

direction of increasing cost of impressions and infrastructure is the decreasing cost of acquisition because every time you get a customer, that customer brings you two more customers. And so that is like the great equalizer in business. And I had a first-hand experience with this recently with the book, the offers book, because I made one post about it, one. And I didn't have a following a year or two years, you know, whenever I put it was a year ago. And that book, from what I understand, is sold more than New York Times bestsellers. I just didn't do the politics thing.

But right now it's sold over 200,000 copies in the first year. And I have no paid ads. I have no anything. It was just because people were like, dude. you should check this book out. Yeah. And so I say that to say, like, if you nail that piece, everything else gets easier. And it's easier to market and make money in the beginning and then harder to fix it once you

have a bad product. The reverse is also true is that it's harder to spend more time in the beginning fixing the product, but then when you scale, it's easier. And so the question is whether you want it to be hard to break through, and this may not be real for some of you, but like, once you get to a $10 million enterprise, like it gets very difficult to break through that barrier if the product's not that good. That's right. And it's much harder to take the time and effort to fix the product.

And I'm going to do a quick segue here because this happens all the time. This is just at least our experience of the portfolio comes we have. What got you to, you know, one or three million is not necessarily what gets you to 10 million and 30 million because in the beginning you need to sell something to someone that you have to promote it. You have to promote the stuff you have. Otherwise, no one knows about you and you're obscure. And so people have to buy it. Where people make the mistake is that they get this positive reinforcement from the fact that they market and sold and think, I need to do more of that. And I'm going to say, yes, you will, but just not at this moment.

Because at this point is actually a pause point. And the goal is not to even necessarily make tons of profit at this point. The goal is to fix the product such that you start to generate a significant amount of business from referrals. Until that occurs, there's no point in adding more gas to the acquisition engine because you're basically just setting yourself up for failure at a later point that will then reach a point of equilibrium where the only way to grow is to sell more people. And at some point, you will run out of people to sell depending on the niche that you're going after. And so the idea is to actually alternate. So you focus on the acquisition in the beginning. You get one, I always say one product, one avatar, one channel.

That's what you have to do to get to $1 to $3 million. And so at that point, then you fix the product. And if you fix the product, you will sneeze your weight at $10 million without doing anything else. And then once you're at 10, if you have fixed the product and the customer experience, such that you have a large percentage of your business come from word of mouth. Now you've extended the LTV of the customer. You have increased growth profit per customer that you can now spend profitably and out completely. repeat everyone else who just wanted to bulldoze their way to 10 million with a lower LTV,

and then you can go crush them on every other channel that they're on. And then you go back and say, hey, we're going to build a cold email team. Hey, we're going to build a cold call team. Hey, we're going to build a paid ad team. Hey, we're going to build affiliate partners and channel partners. And you can do that because you have so much fucking extra profit for customer because you spent the time up front to fix it and make it good. And you'll sleep better at it.

Yep. And you've got proof of concept. So you just scale the crap out of it. Yeah. No one's ever said that on my show. No one's ever ever ever said that to me about the pause part in the middle. and one of the most insightful, really you would have had to have already done something significant

in your life type breakthrough thoughts that someone's ever shared on the show. And I almost want to move it to the very beginning of the show because it's so important. I hope everybody stuck around for that. I got one last question for you. First, I like you a lot. I respect you a lot.

Tell us where they can find you, but then I got a better question for you at the end. The game podcast, Alex Ramozy. If you like podcasts, that's the easiest thing. If you like videos, we're on YouTube really big. And if you like short stuff, If you type my name on whatever social media channel, you'll probably find me. I told everybody that stood fly by, probably the fastest show I've ever done.

I'm really the fastest show I've ever done before. Curious. And I don't even know what you're going to answer. So we go all the way back. You're this kid being raised by this dad that's pretty demanding dude, smart dude, all these options. Go to Vanderbilt, crush it. By the way, in the middle there had a DUI. I had some stuff happening.

It wasn't really good that I read about. And you've turned it around. Business failures. then tons of success, then multiple exits, and then obviously this really unique way of looking at business that's accurate, by the way. But you've worked really, really hard, and you've sacrificed a lot of things in your life.

You're still very young. But I grab you at 32. I'm curious if it was worth it. And I want you to be honest. Like, if you had to do it again, would you do all this stuff again, or would you have done something differently? If you could go back those 10 years,

give up all your money. Like, okay, you're back. You're 22 again. You're just getting out of college. So I took all your money from you, which was our proposition earlier. Would you go do all of this again or would you live a different life? I wouldn't do all of this again.

I would do all of this better. But I would do, I would live this life. I mean, the moment you asked the question, I was like, the yes was in my throat just waiting for you to finish the question. But like, I'll be a little crude. Balls to bones. Through and throw. Like, this is, this is what I love. It's my, it's my, it's, it's what I love.

I mean, I draw pictures about business. I write books about business. I make videos about business. I do business every day. If somebody doesn't have a business, it's difficult for me to be friends with them because we have so little shared context, not because it's their fault, but because I have nothing else that I do in my life. And so they want to talk about biking.

And I'm like, that sounds cool for you. I have no interest. And people are like, what's your hobby? And I'm like, I don't have any. And I'm cool with that. And so I took me a while to just accept that that's okay. And so I 100% would do what I do. I love what I do.

This is the most fun thing in the entire world. And the deeper I get in business, the more I want to live a long time. And that was something that I didn't have earlier on in my life. And so there's just so much I want to do that I just, I just, I, that's, you know, it's like I crammed a lot in 10 years. I'm like, there's so much cool stuff and I want to do it all, you know, as much within this world that, you know, that we have. I can't wait to watch you do it. You're outstanding, brother.

Thanks. I really enjoyed today. A great deal.