The Glass Cannon Podcast - Glass Cannon Radio #11 – Nintendo Switch 2, Severance, Paranoia RPG

Episode Date: April 3, 2025

The guys discuss the release date and expected launch titles for the Switch 2, including an exclusive From Software game: The Duskbloods. They also break down Season 2 of Severance and take calls on thoughts, theories and more! Plus, a look into a TTRPG ahead of its time: Paranoia! Watch the video here: https://youtu.be/pK5zM0KAzZE 00:00 Intro 05:40 Switch 2 14:00 Paranoia 36:45 Your Next Watch 54:15 Listener Comments Access exclusive podcasts, ad-free episodes, and livestreams with a 30-day free trial with code "GCN30" at jointhenaish.com. Join Troy Lavallee, Joe O'Brien, Skid Maher, Matthew Capodicasa, Sydney Amanuel, and Kate Stamas as they tour the country. Get your tickets today at https://hubs.li/Q03cn8wr0. For more podcasts and livestreams, visit https://hubs.li/Q03cmY380. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

With the Fizz loyalty program, you get rewarded just for having a mobile plan. You know, for texting and stuff. And if you're not getting rewards like extra data and dollars off with your mobile plan, you're not with Fizz. Switch today. Conditions apply. Details at fizz.ca. This episode is brought to you by FX's Dying for Sex on Disney+. Based on the podcast of the same name, Dying for Sex tells the story of Molly, who is diagnosed with stage four breast cancer.

Determined to feel everything she can before she can't feel anything, she decides to leave her unhappy marriage to explore her sexuality, with some encouragement from her best friend, Nikki. FX's Dying for Sex, streaming April 4th, only on Disney+. Sign up now at DisneyPlus.com.

You are listening to the Glass Cannon Radio with your hosts Jared Logan and Joe O'Brien. What's up, dick shits? It's Glass Cannon Radio. You garbage brain ground huggers. I am your host, Jared Logan. I'm also a garbage brain ground hugger. And with me is the filthiest piece of turd, this side of the Rio Grande.

Joe O'Brien. Just disgusting. What's up, Jared? How are you? What a disgusting piece of crap you are. And the same to you, my friend. Yes. Welcome to Glass Cane of Radio where we talk about all the topics that are floating around

in the nerdosphere. And we let you, we let you chime in as well, call us and let us know your opinion on it. And then I correct you on your opinion and tell you why you're wrong. You're so good at that. You're so good at that. Before we get anything going on today, I have to give a shout out to Rosalie Grace Logan, who has turned six years old today. Hey, congratulations. Oh, that's wonderful.

Rosie, if you're watching right now, please turn off your device and pay attention to your kindergarten class. But she's so loyal, Jared. She's so loyal. She wants to tune in. She's a loyal listener. She's a loyal viewer.

Yeah, she can never call in because she's always, you know, in kindergarten at school while we're doing this, but she'd love to, she'd love to. You don't know this, but Rosie is Nesh Vorpal. Wow. Wow. She goes by the handle of Doc Robotnik. That's her handle on the Discord. Rosie was in the Navy. Yeah. Yeah. Rosie was in the Navy. Yeah. Yeah. Rosie was in the Navy. So, uh, yeah, we, we were in, uh, we're in little kid birthday mode over here at Casa Logan.

Nice. We got her a big red Panda squishy, uh, stuffed animal and gave it to her this morning and I've never seen someone happier to receive something. And this is why you have children to vicariously experience pure joy again, uh, after not being able to touch it for so many years, you know, but to see someone else experience pure joy is just, um, it brings you back to life. So that's what's going on over at Casa Logan. We're got a big trip to Lego land plan for this weekend.

Oh yeah. I hear good things. I, where is that? Is that, is that in Southern California, Carl's bad California, about two hours south of LA. And we should do a Lego. Topic on glass can of radio sometimes. Cause that is a huge nerd topic. I'd love to. I loved Legos and my kids are into it now. So, uh, yeah, I think it's a good time for a little Lego jam. Who wasn't into Legos.

Listen, if you are out there in the niche and you were not into Legos, call in. I wanna find out how you have been twisted by your horrible childhood. Are you a murderer now? Are you a sexual deviant? You need Legos to survive as a child. We've got a really jam packed full of fun show today.

Let me tell you what we're gonna talk about first. We're gonna get into the new Nintendo Switch 2 launch. The launch was this morning. There is a successor to the Switch, a new, a sequel to the Switch that is going to be on shelves here this year. I think it's in June. We're going to talk about that. Then we are going to get into our main topic of the day. It just ended Severance season two, the entire Severance television program. What a beautiful nerd wormhole to go down. We're going to go down to the severed floor. We're going to forget who we are for a little bit.

We're going to talk about that. Um, after that we were thinking, well, what's a role playing game we could tie into this and what role playing game is more in, in theme and tone like severance than paranoiaanoia, the classic game Paranoia. It has a new edition. I have run it, so we'll talk about that. Then we've got a little segment, a new segment for you that's called Your Next Watch, where we're going to tell you if you liked Severance, here are some other things we think you'll like. And we encourage you guys to call in for all of this stuff, but call in and also chime in on that. Hey, if you liked Severance, you might like this.

And then finally, we have been collecting your comments for weeks and weeks now, and we are going to talk about some of the comments you've made on previous episodes that we didn't get to react to or respond to. So that'll be called comments below, and that's how we're going to round out the show. Joe, are you ready to do this?

Let's go, dude. I started bright and early this morning. Bright and early this morning, Nintendo goes live with their Nintendo Direct stream to announce details on the Switch 2 and I'm pumped as a Switch owner myself. I want to see what's coming, what's happening. And I just love how quickly they turn this stuff around. It's like, we're going to do an announcement on April 2nd and bam, they're like, the release date is June 5th. And to me that sounds so soon. So Switch 2 coming down the pike June 5th. And they announced some of these games that are gonna be coming out along with it,

including Mario Kart World, an open world racing game, massively online potential for what, 24 drivers or something like that. And obviously the graphics look amazing. And I was like, holy shit. And speaking of graphics, there's like, it's gonna have 120 frames per second capability, 4K capability, a bigger screen, slightly bigger screen, fun new stuff with the controllers,

they can act as a mouse and stuff like that. But what jumped out to me, of course, as a huge Dark Souls fan is the announcement of a, and do I have this right? A Switch 2 exclusive from software release of a game called The Dusk Bloods, I think it's called, The Dusk Bloods that looks so sick! I mean, if you watch that trailer, it is Dark Souls, it is blood-borne, it has a little bit of everything, plus a jet pack! Come on.

It looks so dark and gritty, which is surprising, because Nintendo is usually like, help this happy dinosaur make breakfast. Exactly, exactly. And so to have that pivot and to be exclusive and have that pivot be on a handheld device, which will now also be able to have Elden Ring. If you love Elden Ring like I do, you'll be able to play that on Switch 2. But to have this new title come out that looks so sick, it's vampire related,

you love vampires. I love vampires. You love vampires. Are you going to get a Switch 2, Jared? Is this like a day one per- No, I'm not. No. Well, how are you going to play the Duskbloods? I'm going to watch a YouTube video of someone else playing the dust bloods while I'm high. Joe, I can't, I can't buy these, these consoles. They take over my life. And also I, you know how afraid I am of technology, Joe, I gotta tell you the controller that connects to the TV, but then comes apart and becomes three controllers.

I get anxiety just thinking about it. I mean, I don't, I don't want to carry around a switch. Like I know that this seems probably insane to a lot of callers and guys, I'm with you. I hear that I'm insane, but like, I don't really, when I'm like on a train or on a plane, want to pull out the Switch and be like playing a full video game, but I know a lot of other people do, and I'm not hating on that. I'm not hating on that. I love the Switch. I think that it's, I mean, it's just a phenomenal system for how mobile it is. And I mean, it is, to me, you talk about Legos, it is a disgrace. You just told us it's your daughter's sixth birthday.

You have this opportunity to hand her one of the greatest handheld gaming consoles out there and experience the joy of a Mario Kart. Have you tried playing video games with a six year old? Have you tried playing video games with a six year old? Have you tried playing video games with a six year old? Yes, I have. I have a six year old. I hooked up my SNES classic and me playing games

with my six year old was just an hour and a half of me trying to teach her how to jump. Just jumping into a pit over and over or like running right into the pit and me going, no, remember the jump button? And she's just always like, I don't know what that is. So, um, well, you need to start training at a younger age. Perhaps it is too late now for Rosalie.

She is it's over. Yeah. Uh, yeah, I don't know. Maybe I'll teach her to read books or something. Right, right. Or become a great golfer. There might be time for that. There might be time. Oh man. Joe, right. Or become a great golfer. There might be time for that. There might be time for that.

Oh man, Joe, we went and visited friends over the weekend and the husband of my wife's good friend is a great dude, but he was just like, hey man, let's talk about golf. And I was like, hey man, let's not, because I don't know one thing, have never done it, don't want to. And every time I have to respond like that to someone, you can tell that they're kind of like, Jesus fuck, okay dude, I guess we have nothing to talk about.

You know? That's so amazing. And then I have to quickly get it over into movies. So quickly, get it into movies. Movies is a good middle ground, you're not going to pivot to like, have you heard of the role playing game paranoia? Yeah, that'll be quite a pivot. That's not going to go well either.

So that would be quite a pivot. I, uh, yeah, I don't know, man, uh, with guys, you know, you got to talk about movies or sports and you really can't like get into your families or how you feel about things, you know, so Yeah, that's the best part about a long conversation about golf. You know what I mean? It prevents any need to venture into Feelings or emotions. Yes, exactly. Which would be terrible speaking of feelings or emotions. I Before we get to callers I'd love to hear anybody's take that wants to talk about the switch to the direct announcement that happened today.

But I want to get first reactions from our good buddy McD, our producer of the show. McD is a huge Nintendo guy. If you remember a few weeks back on Beat McD, we did Mario Trivia. He crushed it because he's been a Nintendo fan. That was five out of five, wasn't it? Five out of five on the Mario? And he's been a fan of this for a long time. So McD, what were your takeaways on the Nintendo Direct?

What are you thinking about the Switch 2 thus far? I think I would have liked to have seen maybe different first party offerings out of Nintendo, right? I mean, overall, am I going to buy a Switch 2 on June 5th? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I'm definitely going to be there. Buy and get a Switch 2.

I have a Steam Deck. I have a Steam Deck, I have a gaming PC, I have a MetaQuest 3. I don't need this. But I'm gonna get one because there's no Nintendo games on those things. Like you buy a Switch to play Nintendo games. So would you play, would you settle into some Mario Kart world like is that something you would do that sounds awesome That's like cannonball run for Mario Kart right it's like a long extended open world campaign But for Mario Kart that's what that's one of the modes yeah, and also like I've never played

I've never played Mario Kart like online with strangers. That's not something I've only ever's only I've ever done couch co-op, you know, I don't recognize opportunities for that these days. So I don't recommend starting now. Yeah, exactly. I'd be way too behind the ball. Speaking of strangers, this new switch is the first one to have like a chat feature, right? Well, yeah, there was like a week, there was we chat.

There was like a microphone. You could plug into your Wii that you sat in front of your TV. Nintendo is really bad at this stuff. Just there's. Well, it's not what they focus on, right? Well, it's not what they focus on, but it also, I think they're really into, you know, making things that parents are going to feel good about.

Right. Letting their kids have and. Without supervision. know, making things that parents are going to feel good about. Right. Letting their kids have and. Without supervision. Without supervision. Right. Right. You, you don't, you don't really want your six year old exposed to 14 year olds throwing out racial slurs, which is what every chat function on every other

video game console is all about. It seems to be what it's for. Yeah. But so so strange that they're even including a camera. Yeah, plug into this thing. I mean, it's cool. You know, there was a lot of speculation about what that C button was. Like I don't remember C buttons were a thing starting with the N64. Those were like the yellow buttons.

The yellow to see if there was a C stick on GameCube. Now C means chat, I guess, instead of camera. I, for one, didn't believe it. I'd like to see it in this Nintendo Direct. They go into how this microphone, interior to the device that is the size of a pinhead is in the switch to on a dock at the television and they're showing a guy on the couch 15 feet away playing a video game and just saying to his friend like, oh man, that was a wicked turn, man. And like, and they're like, and your voice will

come through crystal clear. And then they show a roommate working a blender right behind him and they're like, and they'll never hear the blender. And I'm like, Whip it up some marks. I don't. Yeah, exactly. I'm like, I still, I still don't want my roommate making his smoothie while I'm trying to play switch.

Exactly. It's like that's so goddamn rude. Yeah. What I found believable was just, uh, I don't know how closely you watch, but they were showing, like you can show the gameplay of the other people below your screen, right? You can have picture in picture. And that streamed audio looks so shitty and compressed and low frame rate. And I'm like, this is real.

They're just showing you what this really looks like. This is exactly what this is going to look like when you frame rate. And I'm like, this is real. Like they're just showing you what this really looks like. Like this is exactly what this is gonna look like when you do this. So I mean, kudos to them for not faking it, I guess. But frankly, I don't really care that much about those kinds of things because like I don't plan to play with anybody else except like my kids in my living room.

So like, I'm not too worried about those features. Bigger screen, is that a positive or a negative? Bigger screen, it's always nice to have a bigger screen my kids in my living room. So like, I'm not too worried about those features. Bigger screen, is that a positive or a negative? Bigger screen, it's always nice to have a bigger screen, but like harder, a little bit harder to travel with, a little bit chunkier in your hands? I guess, I think that's like standard now though. You know, like there's- It's the exact same thickness as the old Switch.

It is, it's just the same girth. Same girth. That's- Same girth. Is it the same as a Steam Deck? Yeah, it might be a little bigger than a Steam Deck. Steam Deck's about that, right? But the Lenovo Legion Go is out, the MSI Claw, like we're in an age right now of handheld

PC gaming. Are Steam Decks a little buggy? My friend had his on a trip I took with him and he was like fighting with it the whole time. I think it depends on what game you're trying to play on it. If you're trying to, can you run mods on Steam deck at all? Any mods? You can run the Steam supported mods.

Sure. Yeah. So there's Steam supported mods are different than what you can get on your PC. Right. But even that, like you're, you know, even on PC, like your mileage may vary on mods. Yeah. So it's, it's possible that your friend was fighting with mod stuff because like I haven't heard.

I've heard the Steam Deck is pretty great. That's Steam Deck's awesome. But I, you know, I play Steam Deck type games on that thing. You know, I play 2D platformers, you know, basically exclusively on that device. I'm not playing 3D shooters. I was thought like, I was like, it would be so cool to take Elden Ring on the road. And then I was like, wait a minute, that's going to be kind of hard to play. And like, you know, with that small screen and stuff like that, I think it benefits greatly

for a 2D platformer or a tactical turn-based game. The important thing is, Joe, that you never look up. You want to never see the countryside around you, never look into the eyes of another person. Avoid that at all costs. Then it'll be mission accomplished. Yes. Yes.

All right. Well, obviously, more to come. They're going to do another direct just on the Mario Kart world, right? So they're going to do another direct on that April 17th. So we'll find out more about that. I have held off actually, my kids actually don't have Mario Kart 8. I think it's Mario Kart Deluxe. 8 Deluxe, yeah.

Yeah, Mario Kart 8 Deluxe. We never got that and I just, they've been having fun playing other games. And it's expensive. Those things never decrease in price. Like Mario Kart 8 Deluxe is never on sale. Right. So I always kind of keep an eye out for it, but it's never on sale. And so now I'm wondering, like, oh, if I end up with a switch to maybe just wait, you know, until then introduce like this huge open world Mario

Kart for their first experience, That could be pretty fun. Well, one thing that flew under the radar at the direct that I thought was an interesting feature so long as enough games support it is that, hey, you have two kids, you get them both switch twos, but for some games, you're only gonna need one copy of the game. Yeah, that's cool.

To play on both devices. Game shares, they're calling it, like games. They're calling it games. Yes. They're called the divorced dad package. You can play remotely with your child. Yes. Oh man. Yeah.

So, well, I don't know. Interesting more things to come, but I think I just want to get that hot news out there because it just dropped this morning. So that's fun stuff. But I think we can get on with Severance stuff. But yeah, thanks for the insights, McD, and for letting us know this was even happening. McD was like, yo, they're doing a direct tomorrow. So that was cool.

Yup. It's very cool. Thanks, McD. And guys, while we're taking calls, you can, you can chime in about the switch if you like, we're going to move on to Severance right now, but if you have thoughts on the switch too, please let us know. And you know, in order to call in, what do you do? You become a subscriber to the nation.

Go to our discord. You go to the glass can of radio stage. You get on there and you raise your hand and we will bring you up to the stage and we will talk to you. And if you're not already a subscriber, it's so easy. Just go to join the nation.com and you can join so quickly. You can be talking to us in five seconds. The time it takes to do it is a total of five seconds.

Quote me on that. That's the truth. Okay. We come to our main topic, truth. Okay. We come to our main topic, Joseph. Yes. The beef beef topic of the day. Um, what I think is so funny is I was about to say Apple TV plus is severance as if Apple TV plus is the creator of it. Right.

That's how we do all of this. Now we're like Netflix is squid game. You know what? It doesn't fucking belong to Netflix. Okay. It just airs there. Okay. Actually, I think financially it does belong to them.

Yeah. Yeah, it does. They do own it. But let's not get confused and start to think that Apple TV Plus is an artist. You're not. Yes. Let's not. We are here to talk about Dan Erickson and Ben Stillers and Adam Scott and everybody

else's Severance. Season two just finished. Severance of course is the thriller comedy satire drama science fiction show about workers for a corporation called Lumen, which is mysterious and cult-like who have opted to have a procedure where when they enter their workspace, they forget all memory of the outside world, of their outside life. And when they leave their workspace, they forget what they were doing while they were doing while they

were working. And I read some articles, I read some interviews, Dan Erickson, the guy that created this, he based this on a real thought that he had. He was going into a job that he hated one day, he says, and he thought, wouldn't it be great if I could just not remember the whole day and just get the paycheck, you know? Like just not have to experience this work that I hate, but still get the pay paycheck, I would opt to do that. And then he said, he thought about it for a while and he realized all of the

ramifications of that, the horrible ramifications of that. And that is what Severance is about. So Joe, tell me about your experience with Severance so far. My experience with Severance was recommended by friends back in season one. And, you know, said that it was, I had a little bit of sci-fi elements to it and stuff. And I was like, all right, I'll check this out. And I started watching it and I was very, very suspicious, I'll check this out. And I started watching it and I was very suspicious to start any new science fiction show.

I'm always like, come on. I always suspect it's gonna stink. I don't know. I just have a kind of a pessimistic attitude. Science fiction shows are very hit or miss. Yeah. And so I usually worry that it's gonna be like not good. And as I was watching it, I was like, oh, okay.

Like I like this hook, like what you said. I was like, I was watching it, I was like, oh, OK, like I like this hook, like what you said. I was like, I like this hook, but I never took it to the logical extremes, right? Which is it makes me think of Ursula Le Guin. And when I read The Left Hand of Darkness, I was so blown away by that. And in I don't know if it was in the original release of the book or during an anniversary, 25 years later, something like that. But she did a forward to that book that I love. I think it's so brilliant.

That kind of lays out what science fiction is. And in one part of it, she lays out that science fiction is that anything taken to its logical extreme is going to be horror. Like it's going to end up being horror. There's this kind of concept in there and she's like, so science fiction so quickly and so easily can devolve into horror, you know, like it's, it's an easy place to manufacture that kind of story. Anyway, read that for it. If you ever get a chance, it's really, really well done. But it made me think of like, like I didn't foresee where it would go. And as it developed, I became more and more and more fascinated.

And what I'll say by just a brief summary is that by season two, I was like, they took it even further than I had even thought after a full season. You know, of just the basic logical steps of what this would, what would happen, not in terms of the narrative, but in terms of like, what this would, what would happen, not in terms of the narrative, but in terms of like what this hook actually, what the ramifications actually are of this. Yeah.

Right. And so that's really good. Sci-fi wouldn't, you know, there's one gimme meaning there's not a lot of different sci-fi concepts. There's one, which is there's a device that can make you forget when you go into a certain place and then they, then they explore all of the different things that could happen just from that, you know, it's not about 18 things. It's about kind of one thing, but, but through examining that one thing, so

many themes get illuminated and stuff like that. Um, and the cast, the cast is so good. Yeah. Stellar. And I think another thing that helps that is you have, what, 20 episodes now of this show, I think, right? 20 episodes and they keep it 19, they keep it small. Like it's a small cast. And that just really helps everyone shine. You don't need to have a million actors doing all this stuff. But it's small enough that even the side parts, the actors are so good.

There's a lot of really good character actors, some of which I loosely knew or worked with in my old days in New York, you know, like just good character actor type people. And yeah, it's just, it's really, really well done. I never knew I would see a John Turturro Christopher walk-in romance, and I never knew how much I wanted it. How much I needed it, yeah, exactly. How much I needed it. So the cast, I mean, everybody gets their own subplot.

It really explores the main conceit, each of their subplots and does great things with the characters. And we knew John Turturro before we knew Adam Scott before, but mostly from comedy. Um, but Britt Lauer is amazing. Uh, Zach Cherry, who I think I may have seen in one thing, Zach Cherry is amazing. And I really got to give it up for, uh, the guy thing, Zach. Cherry is amazing. And I really gotta give it up for the guy that plays Mr. Milchick, Trammell Tillman is so good. Yeah, that was one of the things I was gonna mention is like, by the end of it,

he is one of my favorite characters in the show. And season one, he's mostly an antagonist. And in season two, they blow him up into a full character and they pull that off. You know, some shows like, they'll be like, Hey, it's lost. And Oh, Hey, here are the tailies and here are the others. And we're going to make them characters. Now. I don't feel like they always pulled that off, but because he's just a core,

you, like you said, a small cast, they're able to develop him into a bigger character and it really works. It's really awesome. And I think that Trammell Tillman, who I don't remember seeing before, I think it's all performance. Like there's a decent amount, I think there were good choices made

from a writing or directing standpoint in the sense of like, they did a great job of show, don't tell, and they did a great job of show don't tell, and they did a great job of not making it, not making all of his choices super obvious or super one layered, right? Like he's very complicated. Like even after everything that you see,

you're not like, oh man, he's a good guy. And you're not like, oh man, he's a bad guy. Like you kinda don't know. It's really well done in that respect. I mean, the show is a little bit it's really well done in that respect. I mean, that the show is a little bit about how people are trapped in this system. And it's a little bit how we all feel with, I'd say almost any job that you could possibly have. You,

you feel like you're kind of trapped in it and that it sometimes makes you make choices that you wouldn't make if you were unencumbered by that job. So I think that really comes across really strongly in his character. Just a couple of things I wanted to talk about. First of all, Dan Erickson, the guy that created this, where did this guy come from? Do you know his other credit is that he did the wraparounds

for Lip Sync Battle? No. That's his other credit. And I read an interview with him and he was like, yeah, I've never been a show runner before I've never been staffed before on a TV show. I mean, that's shocking. Did you read the story about how this came to be? I haven't.

I'm asking like, like, did you read any story development story of the series? Like, did he have a history with Ben Stiller? Did somebody else connect to them? Did he pick this? I have a history with Ben Stiller because he was a, Dan Erickson was like a, an unknown, a complete unknown in the entertainment world. And Ben Stiller was of course Ben Stiller, but Ben Stiller, I think probably loved the idea. I read an interview with Dan Erickson.

I read a bunch of reviews, but I don't know if there, if there is like just a development history article out there, please send it to us. Cause I'd be very interested. But it seems like Ben Stiller kind of loved the idea and kind of plucked this guy kind of out of obscurity. And Ben Stiller is also a huge part of the show. I think that we can agree because Dan Erickson said that Ben Stiller is the one that kind of, you know, has the clout to kind of keep the show at a certain tone

and mood and keep people from messing with it, you know, and making sure, yeah, this sort of, uh, very specific satir, funny with no laughter kind of a tone to it that is also sad. And Ben Stiller is a big part of maintaining that. And Ben Stiller's direction in many of the episodes that he directed is just gorgeous. It's just really, really well done. The movie, I'm sorry, the show feels like a movie and not all prestige dramas really feel like movies.

Some of them try and don't achieve it. The other thing I was going to say is that finale for season one is 40 minutes of the greatest television I've ever watched. Well, okay, great. So you and I have not talked about this. So at the start of season two, you had not seen any Severance and you were like, pardon me. I was like, we have to talk about season two on Glass Can't Radio. And you were like, all right, well, I'll go get caught up.

I'll watch season one and then I'll watch all season two and then we'll talk about it. So you and I haven't discussed any of this until today. And, uh, I have told so many people the exact words that just came out of your mouth, that it, this finale of season one is the greatest 40 minutes of television I have ever seen, uh, in my life. And it was hard to hold season two up to that bar, right? For when it, for it to start, I was like, and I don't think it quite hits those heights of that season one finale. Agreed. But I just, that season one, it was every minute. I like edge of your seat thriller,

every single minute of every second. It was just so well crafted. It was, it was brilliant. I mean, they would switch plots and I'd be like, Oh God, what's happening here? And then it would switch again and be like, Oh God, what's happening over here? Like everybody had this really clear and exciting arc that really came to fruition with that season one finale. And, uh, we're going to be spoiler heavy today. Basically the innies, the people that are down in the severed floor of Lumen, who don't have a life outside of work, they figure out a way how to take over their bodies

when they're outside of work and see who they really are. And that is what happens in the season. Season one finale is they see who they really are and they explore that. And I mean, what a, what a taking the genie out of the bottle way to end a season. Yeah, just- Now in season two, they have to put it, they have to put it back in a little bit.

And I was a little worried about that, but they still, they still managed to develop some other plots that are really incredible. Like what's going on with Mark S his wife, uh, Mark scouts wife and well, this was another, this was another thing, right? So you have this character of Gemma and by the way, we'd love you guys to weigh in. If anybody wants to talk, please raise your hand. If you want to talk severance, you have this, this character of Gemma, who is, as an Audi, Mark S.'s wife, and as an Innie, she's Miss Casey, right?

Somebody we knew throughout the early parts of the show. Who seems like just another weirdo that works for Lumen. She seems like another weird detach, and I think she's like HR, like therapy kind of... She's wellness. They call her wellness. And you go to your wellness visit and Miss Casey goes, tells you things about your Audi. Like, your Audi loves chess and often wins. Right. Your Audi makes people laugh around a barbecue.

Like, you know, like weird things that just like... Yeah, yeah, yeah. ...make you feel good about yourself. And so, another thing I think they did great with season two is just going down that rabbit hole again, taking the one idea. And then you think like, well, what if instead of just going into work and not remembering anything that happens for the workday, what if what we did is you walk into 10 different rooms and every time

you walk in, you don't remember what happened. And then you keep testing people like, did you remember anything from that room? What about this? Does this ring any bells? Are we really able to cut off memory from all these different scenarios? Like, and each and each of those individual scenarios don't remember the others, I mean, really fascinating. And you're basically fracturing someone into 10 different personalities when you do that, because what the show really explores is that when you create this person without memories

down in the severed floor, you're essentially creating a new person. And if the Audi quits their job, you're essentially killing that person because they will no longer have the lived experience of being alive. They will no longer exist. Which is, you know, that's taking the concept to the extreme, like you were saying about Ursula K. Le Guin, and it does become horrific.

You are erasing a person if you quit your job. It just yeah. Yeah, it's horrific. Let's see what the nation wants to say. Let's take some calls. Pacifist Jedi has some thoughts, perhaps, on on severance. Pacifist Jedi. Pacifist. Yeah.

Yeah. Can you hear me? Yeah, we got you. What's up, pacifist? Hey, so we haven't really gotten too deep into season two and the conversation yet, but I wanted to share just general thoughts about season two versus season one. Please. Right. OK. Because season two is more complex than season one.

I have issues with just plot holes that seem very apparent in season two. Like so much about season one is about how surveilled they are. And yet in season two, they do talk about like, oh, we're giving them like a longer leash and they can kind of like get up to more nonsense, then it's fine. But they're also talking about,

oh, this is the most important project of the company. This is the whole point of what we're doing. And yet they're just allowed to, MDR is just allowed to go wild. And I just had a really hard time with that as I watched the season. Yeah, I hear you. I think that there, I do think that there were plod holes.

Nothing that bothered me too, too much. I didn't think of that one, but to address that one, I feel like one of the neat things that we saw is consistent breakdown within the management structure of Lumen. Like, you got to see how much in-fighting there was and miscommunication within the company itself outside of the severed floor. And so I thought, maybe that's a reason.

Maybe surveillance is dropping because people are unfocused. They're not doing their jobs well. Obviously, Milchek is like, he's got to kind of keep this job. But you also get the sense that he's like, F this place, right? Like there's some of those elements coming in. So maybe that describes some of it. They are not closely watched.

They're able to have full on intercourse in empty rooms. Yeah. And you would think they're way more closely watched now after the events of last season. Right. It didn't really bother me pacifist to be honest with you, but I did have that thought. But for some reason it didn't bother me. Sometimes it's like, um, the factual, uh, you know, the, the, the given premises of a show in terms of the reality of it. And I kind of am able to ignore them if the show is good enough.

Right. Any other plot holes that bothered you, Pacifist? No, mostly that one, which is just kind of like a whole season plot hole. But yeah, like, you know, the show was just so well made that I just kind of went along with it and was like, oh, you know, maybe they're just understaffed. Maybe Milchik is the only guy working on the Severance floor and they just can't. Well, it does seem like that him and Miss Wang are the only ones down there. Yeah, you have this like, it's just him and an intern basically, you know,

to have to like run the whole thing. Dude, it's so funny when they introduce her in Zach Cherry's character is like, why are you a child? Yeah, I mean, that's why introduce her in Zach Cherry's character. It's like, why are you a child? Yeah. I mean, that's why I really love Zach Cherry's character. And Pacifist, thanks for calling in. Thanks for weighing in on the plot hole. He's got me thinking about some of the other plot holes I thought of.

They're kind of jamming into my head right now. But the Miss Wang, is that what it was? I don't remember her name exactly. But she, like, or no, I was going to say that Zach Cherry's character from the jump, it's like, you have to have that, that character that is sort of that straight man, so to speak, character that just is like such a regular guy. Right. Yeah.

So many like it is telling it like it is kind of guy, but also the, like the, the, the try hard at the office, but not For any ultimate goals of the company just because they love getting little rewards. It's such a great character But then obviously that character deepens greatly I mean, let's just talk about the fact you want to talk about great casting Merit weaver is Mary weaver. So good. And everything she's good. Exactly. And she just- We've talked about Godless, haven't we, Joe?

I don't know if we've talked about it, but I love Godless. I love Godless. She's in that. She's amazing in that. Let's get another caller before we keep burning everything to talk about. Well, wait, I wanna just say one thing. Yeah, let's get another caller, but I just wanna know,

what are some other plot holes that you noticed? I'm interested. Let's get another caller. I'm going to put my thoughts together here because, yeah. All right. Put your thoughts together. Yeah. Ejnar or Ejnar, I'm not sure how to pronounce your name.

If you'd like to join us, Ejnar. Hello. Hey. Hello, Ejnar. Einar. Einar. Thank you. Thank you.

Sometimes on these international servers, I spell it with a Y it makes it simpler, but it's Swedish Okay, welcome. Good to have welcome. Yeah, speaking of which I just saw it skid in chat He said he's hanging out with Ellie our Swedish friend Eleanor Cool. Yeah, so high skid. Hi Ellie. Anyway, please I know Thank you long time YouTube watcher, first time live watcher, but I just had to get in here for the Severance discussion because I have tried so many times to find a TV show that I like and it's just failure after failure after

failure. But now I am this annoying guy that every person I meet, I'm just, have you seen Severance? Have you seen Severance? What about Severance? Did you watch that? It's that good. It's that good. And my favorite part about it is how excruciatingly slow it is.

It's just the- It's talking like a true Swedish person, ain't it? Exactly. The day just Swedish person ain't it just. They give you only tiny tiny nuggets to just feed on and keep you interested and i talk about edging like you said before at the end of your seat right. Yeah it's just so fantastic i love it so much. fantastic. I love it so much. It's it's terrific. But I will say I felt that in the first series, what I sometimes tell people when I'm trying to pitch them on the show, especially people that are like wary,

because it's sci fi and they don't like sci fi or fantasy. I'm like, just try it. And let me let me try to explain, even though I'm a fan of those genres in general, I am, I almost don't like any of them that are made on TV and in movies, right? Like there's only a rare few that I think are really great. And this one, I felt in the middle of season one was slow, just like A&R said, I felt, I felt that excruciating slowness. And I remember being like, I don't even know if I'm going to keep going with this show. Like I, I like it. I like the way it's done. I love the hook.

But it is kind of like grinding a little bit. When I finished the finale, I'm so glad I saw it through. When I finished the season one finale, you see why you needed every minute of the season like leading up to it, right? Like it all built. And so what I tell people is like, even if you find at times it's a little bit slow,

like stick with it because everything pays off. Like you get all the payoff for all the time invested. It kicks in. It really kicks into high gear. I'd say around like episode six of the first season, right? Like, yeah, but it's, it's, I thought it was fascinating and really cool up into that point, but yeah, you have to get like midway into season one before you're kind of like things start coming together and you start going, Oh, holy shit, I can feel the momentum of this where it's going. Yeah. Yeah.

It builds so fast. So Ainar, did you, uh, find this show on your own? Did somebody recommend it to you? Uh, you guys did. Oh, really? Wow. Yeah. to you? You guys did. Oh, really? Oh, wow. You heard we were going to talk about it and then you just watched it all? No, I think it was Skid mentioned it on Legacy of the Ancients. Oh, okay.

Right on. That makes sense. Yeah. Yeah, on Legacy of the Ancients, Skid does a great job of checking in every once in a while. What are you watching? What are you into? What are you into besides Pathfinder? And he did, I remember he did a best of the year. He wanted everybody's like, best TV shows of the year, best movies of the year, best books of the year, that

kind of thing. And Severance was on all of our lists, the best of the year, the year that that came out. Yeah, that might have been the case that that's the episode. Yeah, might've been one of those situations. And thanks for calling in. And thanks for watching. Thanks for watching live. You're that long time YouTube watcher, first time live tuner inner.

So thank you, and our please let's that's very cool. We're folks doing it. Let's get. Oh, wait, let's talk about one little plot. Call it a plot. It might not be a plot. I don't know. Let me throw this out at you. I feel like they hand wave a little bit the, correct me if I'm wrong, maybe I'm misremembering. The moment you first walk into a severed floor, the moment you first wake up on a severed floor, the moment, each time that Gemma walks into a new room, right, for the first time, it's like,

how do you know anything? How are you not a completely broken nothing? Where does it keep, what does it keep? How do you know how to speak? How do you know your language? Are they just saying that this is all a base of animalistic knowledge? How much do you know? How do you retain?

How do you know what a dentist is? Do you still know who Michael Clarke Duncan is or do you lose that? Right. Right. Is that ever explained at all in even a little bit? That's not a plot hole, Joe. That's a question you have. Yeah, Um, that's not a plot hole, Joe. That's a question you have. Yeah, I guess it's not a plot.

Well, I mean, I think it's kind of a plot hole in the sense that it's like, you're not explaining how this is possible. Right. And I'm not talking about like, uh, scientifically. I think they're not explaining it because it's not, you, you just said not scientifically, go ahead. Yeah, not scientifically, but like, um like, I guess, is it just, this isn't an interesting part of the show.

And we don't need to explore that. This is fantasy, which I'm fine with. But I was just curious if like, I missed anything in terms of them, sometimes they'll even give a sentence or two to just sort of hand wave why they don't worry about this part of that. You know, cause like the first thing you see is like, hell, they are right.

Like waking up and like, that's the first real experience you get with it. It's like her waking up and she's already like, where the hell am I? What's happening here? Well, what are her memories before that? You know, like that's kind of what I'd be curious to see how they. Yeah. It feels like their personality doesn't transmit, cause they have different personalities from their Audis,

but yet their knowledge of what a computer is and how to walk does transfer, right? Right, right. Yeah, I mean, there's a different version of the show where when they come down that elevator, they're just babies, you know, and That's not interesting and pee in their pants and they're like they're like in diapers And they're like rolling around on the floor all naked, you know Like that's a vision of the show that I can imagine, you know that I'm thinking about right now

but I Don't think that it would be a very good version of the show Jen with two ants has something to say on severance. Okay, I'd love think that it would be a very good version of the show. Uh, Jen with Two Ancest has something to say on Severance. We'd love to have Jen back. Jen. Hey kids, what's for dinner? Hey, good to hear from you. Good to have you back.

She said the catchphrase. She said the catchphrase. We need a sound effect. Womp womp womp. Uh. Yeah, I, um, I'm struggling with how I feel after watching it. My wife and I actually rewatched all of season one and did season two in like a week or so. And I'm frustrated because I feel like for every one answer we got, we got like three more massive questions, you

know? And it's just like, I don't feel satisfied enough with really what we learned because there's so much more going on. Like, what is going on with all the goat people? Were they born there? They're asking about belly buttons, like all of that whole thing. Like, what is everyone else in MDR working on? We knew what Mark was working on. Like, we know from those those temps that showed up that there's apparently a ton of other Lumen offices. So like what's like, I don't know. So it's hard for me to recommend this show to people because like,

clearly I know it's very good television, but it frustrates the heck out of me. So I don't know how to actually, I think, Jen, I think that what you're kind of hinting at or, or getting toward is, are they just making this shit up as they go along? Like they're hinting at a lot of secrets and asking a lot of questions, but I bet you the writers don't know the answers to those questions and are later writing themselves out of corners that they've written into. And that can be a very dangerous way to create something like this. As we saw with the show Lost, for example, where they really didn't know what the hell

the smoke monster was or why there was a polar bear on that island. They just wrote explanations for it later. Is that what you're kind of worried about? Am I understanding you correctly? Yeah, I guess. I guess it's just more of that. I wanted more resolution. I wanted more answers and yet I feel more frustrated.

I won't go into it. I know there are some folks who haven't finished, but at the very end I was so frustrated because I feel like we were working towards one goal and it didn't happen. But then after sitting with it. Well, no, we were working towards one goal and it, and it did happen. Yeah. Yeah. But because like, because they freed Gemma from the severed floor. That was the goal and yes, but Mark wasn't reunited with her and me that was yeah

but Jen that's called oh my god that's drama that's drama that's drama that's it not everything is supposed to be happily resolved that's not a story no I like happy endings. Yeah, no. Jen, I also was like, no! But it's like- You're supposed to feel that way. Exactly, the character subverted what you wanted to happen. A character for reasons that make very good sense subverted what you wanted to happen and what I wanted to happen admittedly. And

I think that is just good storytelling. Now I get the whole, so let me ask you this, Jen, because I think you bring up another question. It's a slight pivot, but there's the wider world question, right? And the goats, but there's so much going on, but let's say goats for one. Goats are my least favorite part, by the way. Goats are stupid. Now are the goats, is the goat thing like, and look, you do this in Delta Green, right? You do this in Call of Cthulhu sometimes. You like, you just put something surreal in front of the players and creep people out because it makes no sense and everybody talks weird

and everybody's like, the goats, be careful of the goats, whatever. But there's not- They're not ready yet. And there's never an explanation for it. And the whole reason they do that is because they wanna throw in some surreal horror. Like I'm not a huge fan of that, but is that why they did it?

Maybe, you know? I don't think the goats are ever going to be adequately explained. Also, absolutely. That's why they did it, Joe. They, they threw it into to disorient you and make it a, you know, uh, flip your reality a little bit. And then later they're kind of writing what it means, you know, they're figuring out what it means, but initially it's just an image to kind of disorient you and let you know how weird Lumen actually is

the deeper you get. But it seems like the only reason they do this if we're doing like theories, right? The whole goat thing is like for, they are literally sacrificial lambs, like sacrificial goats, right? That's what they're there for. There's some sort of religious undertone here

that is not fully explained. Yeah, the Keer Egan cult, the Egan cult is a true cult. It is a true cult in the most basic sense of the word. Right, and so then the other thing, Jen, from the wider world aspect is like, here's what I grapple with. But it's not this kind of show. It's like, how is this legal? Where are the people, like, here's what I grapple with. But it's not this kind of show. It's like, how is this legal?

Where are the people like, here's what I love. Well, it's not legal. None of it's legal. The way they treat the innies is not legal. They're using the technology to get away with abuse. Right, but like other people know this. Why isn't it just reported? Why aren't they just shut down, right?

Like they don't really explain that. Like, how come Marcus is very powerful, Joe, the Eagans are very powerful, right? But it's just not that kind of show. Like, I think of the movie Minority Report, as an example, is like a an interesting hook. But part of the main storyline of the hook is like,, the political influence and legal struggle of this technology being implemented into the world. Some people think it's a good thing.

Some people think it's a bad thing. Let's see them hash it out. That's the central part of that's going on in the background of the actual plot of the main characters that doesn't exist in this show. In my opinion, I don't see any like. Right. Mc D has a thought, Joe McD has a thought like McD. So so one like a reading that I like for you to talk about,

like, how is any of this legal for how are people being treated is. I think you could read this, that the outies are everybody enjoying capitalism. And the innies are all the all the people who you don't have to know or care about or know anything about who are providing the means by which everyone else gets to enjoy society right and it's cruel. It's cruel and it's faceless and you don't need to know about these people. You don't want to know what they're going through. Like none of these things matter because what actually matters is the actual enjoyment and consumption, not the means by which it's produced. And McD is nailing, I think, you know, the symbolism of the whole show and Joe, I think you're talking literal,

like why aren't the police arriving? And I, I think you're talking literal, like why aren't the police arriving? And I don't think you can do that. Well, no, I'm saying I think that that's, Jen's call made me think of that aspect. I don't think it's that kind of show. And I don't think, I don't need that to enjoy this show. But I just think that those are some of the other sort of questions that I would maybe like answered.

I don't need to see it all play out, but it's like, how is this even possible? Not scientifically, but like, yeah, sorry, Jen. Is Jen still on the line? Yeah, Jen should still, yeah. Jen, are you gonna watch season three? Oh yeah, definitely. Even though Mark didn't get back together with his wife?

Oh yeah, I still, I like, I wouldn't say I hate watch things cause I'm not at that point, but I like- I hate watch. No, I'm not, I'm not hate watching. You know, there's a lot of that whole thing. I like this show, but it's frustrating. I will continue to watch it in what,

three years when it comes out. And I'll have to listen, re-watch all of it. That's a good point. Like, it's funny because going into it, even with the re-watch, I was like, you know what? I think I would sever myself. Like, you know, sign me up, like if I don't have to work again, but then I think what season two taught me was,

oh, the Innie is really a separate person. So you would be condemning your Innie to like a life of hell. And it's like, are you okay with that? Maybe, I don't know. Dylan kind of was. So we'll see. Thank you, know. Yeah. Dylan kind of was. So yeah. Thank you, Jen. Good perspective.

And yes, it is interesting to think about how can these people knowingly do this to, you know, to their any, or maybe they they weren't knowingly doing it before. Lots of people want to get in here. I want to get more people before we move on.

Yeah. Steve, join us. Talk, talk a little severance severance if you've... Steve, are you still there? No? Original Jim. What about Original Jim? Are you there, Original Jim? Steve McLaughlin Indeed, I am. Hello. Jared Slauson What's up, Original Jim? How you doing? Steve McLaughlin Hey, good. Longtime listener, 2019-ish, I think.

Jared Slaus. Wow. So I wanted to ask Jared as an auteur of cinema, that last shot where it frees frames on them running and then it slowly zooms in and it gets all grainy. What are they, what is that? It seemed kind of goofy to me, but I'm not an auteur. So I thought I'd ask the expert. Well, I don't know is my answer. Um, it kind of reminds me of stuff from the seventies or early eighties from the

seventies. Yeah. I think there's a little bit of diploma in it, maybe a little bit of diploma, but I'm surprised you didn't like it. I thought it was super cool. You just didn't like it.. It just seemed out of place. Yeah, because it didn't fit with the rest of it. Yeah. Do you feel, and that's a, that is, if I'm not mistaken, a Ben Stiller directed episode. His episodes are a little bit more stylistic than some of the other directed episodes. Does, were there other little flourishes like that that bothered you?

Nope, that's the only one. It just stood out to me. And I was like, huh? Like one. It just stood out to me. And I was like, huh? Like it just kind of stood out to me. If I may, it is the end of an entire season, the last moment. So it's kind of like, and button, you know, like if you're going to have a, a filmic stylistic moment like that, that's probably where you would put it. Yeah. Sure.

Uh, but, but to also leave the audience with a last final moment that is stylistically, artistically, nothing like anything before it, is it's either a misguided ending that's just for art's sake, or it's like an interesting statement on what's to come in some way. Right. Like, you know, these, uh, I hear season three is going to be all grainy, jumping closeups. Yeah. It's going to be all that.

So it's not going to be for you, original Jim, you know, what it made me think of original Jim is like the graduate. I thought of the graduate a lot in that moment. Well then the graduate there's literally the, and it looks exactly like the way they're running as they run out of the church. They run out and she's in the gown and everything. But instead of freeze framing it there, they just get onto a bus and then it's just them sitting for a while on the bus and the big moment is over, but they keep filming.

I love the end of The Graduate. Yeah, thanks for that because I was wondering if it was a callback, like some people mentioned, there's a lot of subtext to this show. So I was wondering if it's a callback to something classic that I just don't know about. Have you ever seen The Graduate? A long time ago.

I'm old. I'm older than Skid. Oh dear. I'm so sorry. Oh god in heaven How are you able to operate technology? I know how did you get on discord and have a great sounding microphone? This is astounding Well, like I from a YouTube channel gave me this microphone But like I don't do the twitch and I don't watch YouTube for you guys. I just listen Well, yeah right on angle. I don't do this newfangled Twitch stuff, but anyway. I don't think that's a callback to anything. I don't think that you're supposed to go, ah, yes,

the shot from the parallax view. I don't think you're supposed to be doing that. Yeah. Yeah. All right. You might be overthinking it, original Jim. OK, yeah, I think I am. But, you know, yeah, Ben Stiller's a genius. Like I'm a big fan of his since Tropic Thunder. So anyway.

Yeah. It's great. Tropic Thunder's great. Thanks for the call, original Jim. Well said. Player guy, are you there? Player guy? Hello, hello.

Hey, welcome back. What do you got on Severance? Don't hate the player, hate the game, Joe. Hello. Hey, welcome back. What do you got on Severance? Don't hate the player. Hate the game, Joe. Exactly. Yeah, I wanted to bring up, I guess, like another lens. McD was mentioning the capitalist kind of lens, which I think is pretty clear. But the other sort of theme that the show is tackling is really like the ethics of birthing and bringing people to life and

what your responsibility is to them. I don't know if you noticed that as well, but there's a lot of connections obviously with Mark and Gemma trying to have a kid and the lodging that they go to. Yeah. And there's also a line in the first season from the doctor, I'm forgetting her name, the kind of person that's helping merge Mark together again. Right. Oh, the guy's sister or something? No, we're talking about the doctor who knows how to do reintegration. Yeah, isn't she like

Yulves has a sister or something like that? Or I don't believe she's anyone's sister. OK, no. Yeah, I know. She used to work for Lumen, but she she mentions at one point in the first season saying to Mark like. What does she say? She says. The the the version of you in there is just a child, like you brought them to life without their consent. You know, they didn't choose to be alive, but they're in there now. Which was like a very direct echo to some real like philosophical arguments

around, you know, what is the responsibility to a life you create? So if you if you were interested in that in that because I did some philosophy in university There is like she kind of almost verbatim quotes a philosopher when she's talking to mark in that scene Which whose name is I think David Benatar? So anyways the show is tackling pretty strongly also along with the capitalist lens. When are you like, what is your responsibility to this life you create? What is the harm in just having them exist? Is it harmful for Mark S to exist at all or now that and now that he does exist, what do you owe him as a person?

And obviously the end of season two is really like making a strong case that he is owed just as much as Mark outside. Yeah. I think especially in the first season. I really love the conversation between Mark S and Mark Scout that happens. That was the highlight of the finale for me, you know, and it feels like it's a lot about what you're saying. Yes, absolutely. That was, I think that was my highlight as well.

And especially, uh, there's a point in that. Have any of you played or know of the game Soma? Uh, it's like a horror game, I think by frictional games, something like that. No, no. Okay. Well, anyways, there's this conversation when Mark is talking with his any version, uh, I think you can really tell that I, and they make it obvious that he's like still condescendingly thinking of his any version, right?

He's still seeing that any version as like a bit. I don't know. I don't think he sees them as fully inferior. He sees them as lesser and they make it clear when he's like messing up how his name and not really caring when he tries to talk to him a bit like a child. And I think when the Audi Mark starts to talk about reintegration, he is convinced that he's going to be the one in control in the driver's seat when all is said and done. Like he might have some other memories, but he's ultimately the human that matters. Whereas I think any Mark catches that and knows like, there's something wrong here.

I can tell that you're talking like an Audi. You think that you're in control of this vehicle. Um, yeah, yeah, very, very interesting points. Yeah. And thanks for coming. Yeah. Fascinating to look at it through birth. And I, and I didn't connect all that the, the birthing lodge and, and all of the

different things that, that bring it back to that kind of theme, really, really cool. Uh, Soma is an extremely highly rated video game. different things that bring it back to that kind of theme. Really, really cool. Soma is an extremely highly rated video game that I've never heard of. It looks like I'm gonna have to take a gummy and watch a play through, Joe. It's from 10 years ago, extremely positive reviews. It is a sci-fi horror game set beneath the Atlantic Ocean. Struggle to survive a hostile world that will make you question your very existence.

As long as it's super Japanese, I'm in. I like anything that's like doesn't feel quite Western. So, Joe, do you think it is time for us to move on? Uh, yeah. Yeah. You know, let's do one more. We have a lot of callers, so I want to take one more person. One more person.

One more, god damn it! One more person get there. Get there. What about MaxHatchK? MaxHatchK? Do I have that right? MaxHatchK? MaxHatchK.

Hi. MaxHatchK. Hello. Thanks for joining. My pleasure. I had a lot of different comments, but I'll just pick out the one I feel most strongly about. Thank you.

Okay. Because there's so much to think about in the show. Really is. I was drawn to Joe's comment about surrealism and things like the goats really being pointless. And I think that's very much part of the point, because I think the whole season has been really good about exploring the cult-like parts of Lumen. So like the hieroglyphics on that goat sacrifice altar

being just like symbolism for symbolism sake. The Keir's mythology ice backstory, the way Milchek and Natalie are degraded in these very like anti-intellectual and race and gender-centered ways. And those are all major parts of real cults. I've recently been watching some video essays by these YouTubers called Knowing Better, who does videos about high control groups, and Alyssa Greenifel, who's a former Mormon.

And a lot of these things come up again and again like elaborate and pointless rituals and rewriting and mythologizing their founders back story and excluding and denigrating people who are like. Kind of smart enough to see past some of that so i think like that kind of. Those things that seem kind of pointless i think are kind of meant to be. You know, I, I think the fact that the show brings out what I like, makes it into a literal cult is really fun and interesting because I don't know if you've ever worked for a major corporation, but they do mythologize their founders. Absolutely. They do. Just when I worked for a network television show,

the amount of enthusiasm you had to show every day, that was the thing that killed you. You know what I mean? Doing the job, doing a good job, things that I was more than willing to do. But you also had to be like, I love this show, and I love what's happening on it. And I love being here and I love the CBS Corporation and that's fucked up. But all jobs make you

do that. And that's a fucking cult. Yeah. Yeah. And that's a good point, Max H. Thanks for bringing that up. Like the culty aspects are... It is, Jared. It's so cool how it's taken to a little bit of an extreme, of course. But it's not... So I once worked a job briefly when I was desperate. And like just... I was working in the restaurant business. I was hating my life. I was like, I want to do something else. And I got this opportunity that seemed like an opportunity, but it was a trick. And it was a like a pyramid scheme, right? Like a classic pyramid scheme trick. They called it, you know, it was a marketing position. And I had studied marketing in school. And I was like, yeah, maybe I can maybe I could do this. Well, you find out very quickly that it's like sales and it's like door to door sales,

like cold door to door sales stuff for like these coupon books and stuff like this. Right. But the way that they talked about the founder and the creator of the company, it was always this, it was like, it was myth, myth company. It was always this, it was like, it was mythological. It was always this. So he goes to a Yankees game and he has this idea and he goes and he does this, he does this. And it's like, why aren't people thinking of this, this amazing idea that's going to like change the financial landscape for everybody that like gets it, right? That gets in at the right time right time and like why worry about dealing with bosses or paychecks or you know all these like typical things that

work when you could do this and make so much money with other people working for you right all this kind of stuff and I did it for I want to say like three months maybe four months I was promoted three times during that stretch. Wow. They had all these rankings, like there were a million different rankings. So you always felt like you're getting promoted. They do these morning meetings, there were all this like, rah rah rah stuff. And I was just sitting there like, this is insane. It was crazy. Anyway, I could tell more stories about that another day, but it was a crazy job. It was crazy. Anyway, I could tell more stories about that another day,

but it was a crazy job. It's in this show, this horrifying thing that companies do where it's not enough to own your time, it's not enough to own your work, they also have to own your heart and your mind. Your personality, yeah. Yeah, and that's fucked. Yeah.

And that's what a cult is. That is what a cult is. They own your heart and your mind. Um, I think I thought very early on in the show, sorry, I don't want to move on. Just yet. I think they, I felt very early on in the show that it wasn't a cult, that it was like a mega-corp, like a dystopian mega-corp is sort of how I thought about it. It is that also.

It's that also, but you really do get the sense it is much more a cult by the end of this season. I think that that's a lot more clear. Can we just rattle off a few more things before we move on? Just favorite moments, individual moments. I don't know if there's anything. Oh god, I'm not ready for that. I didn't know we were doing it, favorite moments.

No, I didn't even write anything down. There's just a couple of things I want to know we were doing it favorite moments. No, I didn't write it. I didn't even write anything down. There's just a couple of things I want to mention that I thought that, uh, that I thought were so great in the finale of season two. I loved the back and forth. Like you said, you thought that was your favorite moment with the video camera. That was really cool. I, how do you end a scene that good? Absolutely knocked it out of the ballpark. Cause if you remember these like, if the next thing, the next thing I see better be the severed floor or I'm not doing anything to help him out. And he just walks out and it's like, and it's the severed floor.

I thought that was so freaking cool because it was like, you know, as a viewer, so much time has passed. You have no idea how much time, but like time passed that you, they cut out all this stuff they didn't need, right? The arguments, the debates, can you believe this fucking guy? Bobo, his sister being like, he said it, I don't know, or, you know, whatever, like you got to do if you want to try to get they cut out all of it, leave it all to your imagination and just in one frame, they just move the story a huge jump ahead.

I thought that was brilliant. I loved that. I thought that was such a cool part. Oh, somebody mentioned it in chat here. I want to highlight it. Episode seven of season two, which is where they show the backstory of Gemma and Mark S. I think is awesome because it's weaving in. I love doing this in Delta Green. I did this a lot in Impossible Landscapes.

Having people remembering things, but then also experiencing something presently, and they're getting twisted together. You start to not realize what is happening now and what was, you know what I mean? What's real, what isn't? I thought that whole episode was just so brilliantly done. To me, that was the episode that most sort of mimicked the art I felt of the finale of season one, where it's just like every passing scene

was more and more like, and then they add the baby stuff in, and then they had the fraying of the marriage, which seemed to be a lot to deal with the miscarriage and stuff like that. All these very realistic sort of themes mixed with him trying to like, mind jump into his innie.

And I mean, it was just so cool. Thought that was really, really neat. It was so cool. It was so cool. I really liked really, really cool. It was so cool. I really liked the outdoor excursion episode. Yeah. At first I was like, what? Like, this is just a little, this is a bridge too far, like on the, the creepiness and the, and are of the, like, this is a corporate retreat, you know, like you're

putting them out in these freezing temperatures in tents, like this is so stupid. And then they tell them the story of how the forgotten brother of Keir masturbated on the ground and then was smited on his eyes, oozed out his head. And, uh, and then a trem will tell him, Mr. Milchek is like, and it's literally true. It's really happened. That's so good. I love that.

That's a highlight for me for some reason. Well that, you know, sort of ends up with what I think is one of the best climactic scenes of season two in the, the drowning of Heliar. I thought was a phenomenal scene. So intense. I loved, uh, was it, uh, Zach Cherry's case at Dylan. Is that his character with Dylan G. Wasn't he screaming, uh, screaming down to Burt, right?

Is Burt, right? Or is that Christopher Walken? Am I mixing them up? That's Christopher Walken. You're thinking of Irving. Irving, yeah. Irving B. Irving, stop!

I mean, it's so raw and intense. That scene was great. Super, super awesome. And I mean, did you know when she walked in the door that it wasn't her? No, no, of course not. I don't think anybody did. That's, you know, I knew it the second she walked in and I am never on top of anything, but as soon as she said, she didn't remember what happened when she was out. I was like, I don't buy that. She doesn't.

I thought she was covering. Yeah. That she's too guilty. Yeah. You don't, you didn't buy that. Not for a second. I was like, there's no. I thought she was, yeah. You don't, you didn't buy that. Not for a second. I was like, there's no way that Helly R would do that. Like she wouldn't, you know? Like she wouldn't cover that. Like it was just, and I thought how brilliant it would be, not just from a narrative writing perspective, but from the company perspective, to put her in there and sort of like see what's happening, what's going on, whatever.

A night gardener. As a spy. Yeah's going on, whatever. A night gardener. As a spy, yeah, a night gardener. The night gardener. I met this guy, I think he was like a gardener. So, so funny, Irving's just so mad. He's like, the night gardener? So good. Joe, we have to move on.

We must. I'm sorry, I'm sorry, sorry. We've got so many other topics. I promise we have to move on. I'm sorry. We've got so many other topics. I promise not to say much more about anything else. Please continue. Hey, look, I mean, the way the show works is if you have more to say about Severance when you call in, we will talk about Severance. But we are going to move on right now. We're going to move on to the role playing game portion of the show.

And we are going to talk about paranoia. I don't know how many people have had experience with this tabletop role playing game, but paranoia is a classic tabletop role playing game. It's from the 1980s. It is ahead of its time because it was a role playing game far outside the mold that was, that was created by Dungeons and Dragons. It is a science fiction dystopian satire role playing game. And that's why it is a perfect companion piece to severance because like

severance, it literally mostly takes place in a series of tunnels beneath the earth. The premise is this, okay? You are citizens of Alpha Complex and Alpha Complex is what's left after the entire world was nuked. It's this underground series of chambers, um, that is controlled by a ruler called the computer, which is a literal computer that runs society and might be malevolent to human life.

It acts really nice and polite and friendly, but it sends people to their death constantly. And you play a troubleshooter, which is a citizen who has been randomly assigned to some sort of dangerous mission. You're given like a little bit of reflect armor and a laser, and you are sent to root out traitors to the computer. You are sent to discover mutants. It's illegal to be mutants. It's illegal to belong to one of the secret societies like the Sierra club. But, uh, the other thing about your character is that all characters are mutants and all characters also belong to secret societies. So you're set to root out these traders, but you in fact are a trader. And during the game, if you discover one of your fellow players is a trader,

it's your job to execute them on site. So, uh, you can see how this leads to complete chaos and that is sort of a design, not a bug, but a, a, a feature of the game. It's, it's kind of supposed to descend into complete chaos. Um, I just played the most recent edition of the game by a guy named WJ McGuffin and Keith Garrett. I just played the most recent edition of the game by a guy named W.J. McGuffin and Keith Garrett. This was originally created by some guys named Dan Gelber, Gregg, Greg

Castikian and Eric Goldberg back in the eighties. The new edition is okay. So this is what I love about it, Joe. It's a core rule book that is this thin. Yeah. Not quite as thin as an indie game, but very, very thin and easy to digest, easy to read.

The game rules are really interesting, and they add some unique things. Like, for example, Initiative is done with like a bidding process, where if you want to kill someone before they kill you, you can kind of bid to get in front of them in the initiative, which I think is very cool.

There are a lot of little cool mechanics like that, but at core it's very simple. I got to play with Kevin Culp, the guy that designed Time Watch and Swords of the Serpentine, and we had a blast with it. So I'm curious what your experience is with Par paranoia, and if anybody out there in the niche has watched, watched, has played paranoia, Joe, I hear you had an experience with it that wasn't as positive. You could say that.

Okay. So here's my experience with paranoia, as brief as possible. I played paranoia for whatever reason. I don't know why it was one of the first games we ever played in new game who dis. So like, I never played any other role playing games. Besides you would play

Pathfinder only. Dungeons and Dragons. And Pathfinder. So when I was like coming up coming up, I had friends, Spent McD's older brothers and stuff. They played other games. They played horror games and stuff like that. I never remember playing any other RPGs besides D&D.

Then I played Pathfinder. It was all I played. So now all of a sudden throw me into a paranoia game. I don't know. I think there's a chance I hadn't even played Call of Cthulhu yet in my life. Right. When I played Paranoia. And I, somebody told me it was going to be like, kind of like Portal, which I had played that video game.

I was like, okay. I would agree with that very much. Thematically it's like Portal. I was like, okay. And to sum it up very simply, I didn't understand the concept of a game, a role playing game that didn't have like a move action and a standard action. Like I didn't understand a game that what where combat wasn't in rounds that had very specific rules or that just went for long periods of time in this like kind of elusive sort of gameplay

and that it had like all these PVP elements to it and stuff like that. And I hated it. So at the end of it, so I'm like, well, I don't have time to get over there and like rip that thing off the wall. Troy is running the game and he's like, just do whatever you want,

just tell me what you wanna do, anything you wanna do, we'll like talk through it, blah, blah, blah. And I was like, how many actions do I have? Right? Like I couldn't get my stupid head around it. So I finished it and I was like, that game sucked. And I have no interest in, in ever playing it again and go.

And now fast forward to now, all these years later, and particularly after watching Severance. And I'm like, I think I need to go back to paranoia again, because I think that I would love playing in that world now, understanding so many different games that play so differently in their rule sets and how, you know what I mean? Like, I can't explain it other than to say that I was very, I had very limited experience at the time and I couldn't wrap my head around how the game played. And I think now I would,

I would feel a little bit better about doing that. I think if you're going to play it, it is important to have those conversations about how this is going to be different because even if someone's used to things that take place in theater of the mind or, you know, don't have an action economy and stuff like that. Paranoia is still a little bit of a jump because it is a satirical role playing game. Like I said, there's a lot of PVP, which is a lot of chaos. And the thing

that's hardest, and this is hard to get in any role playing game is it has a tone. It has a satirical tone. It sets a sort of mood, a sort of mood, a certain mood. And that, that can be really hard to nail even as the game master, let alone players who kind of bring their own tone with them. So it really is important before you play paranoia to get everybody on the same page to let them know what's going to happen to them when they play this game. Without without just saying like satire or satirical, can you describe the tone?

Even if it's just using other examples of fiction, because I can't quite put my finger on the tone. Yes, there's this computer that seems very friendly. You know it has to be pure evil, right? But you can't quite prove it, whatever. And then the P, why is it PVP, right? Can you explain the tone? Well, I guess you said you're hunting people that are mutants or whatever, but I felt like

they were like scores. Are there scores where they're like, you wanted to rank higher than your allies in certain Oh, right. So yes, in the new edition of paranoia, which I think is very funny is after you go on these missions where you kill people merciless mercilessly, including your own teammates, the computer then gives you superlative awards that get attached to your file, you know, that say, you know, most bloodthirsty and things like that. So I think that's really, really funny.

It reminds me a bit of Dungeon Crawler Carl. In fact, I'd say if anybody's read Dungeon Crawler Carl, they will get the tone to paranoia immediately. It's sort of that sort of comedy mixed with a massacre kind of a tone. Dungeon Crawler Carl will come up in the comments below segment, which is coming shortly. Yeah. I wrote down a bunch of things.

Listen, there are elements of 1984 by George Orwell. There are elements of Brave New World by Aldous Huxley. If you ever had to read those in high school, there are elements of Franz Kafka, but there are also elements of say, the Terry Gilliam movie, Brazil, or Dr. Strangelove. If you like that. All of that mixed with-

Is there any, I'm no expert in this field. Is there any Monty Python to it? Absolutely. Absolutely. Although I would say it's not a completely absurd world. It's not filled with non sequiturs. It follows its own logic very,

very stringently. But I, when I first read it, it seemed to me like it should be funny, like really, really funny. It is maybe, it is maybe the only actually funny role playing game. I know that there have been other role playing games that attempted to be hilarious. I think this is for my money, my opinion, this is the only one that actually does it, the rule book is really funny to read.

And that was true of old additions as well. And, um, I think it's, I think it's a really funny world because, uh, but you've got to get that kind of dark, bleak humor of it, you know, everything is stacked against you, you are a tiny cog in a gigantic machine with no help hope of ever escaping or achieving anything of value You know you are as a troubleshooter You are the definition of expendable and you kind of have to play freewheeling like that You've kind of what the game does is it gives you six clones? Which are essentially six lives, right?

it gives you six clones, which are essentially six lives. Right. I remember this now. Yeah. So you can just play balls to the wall and let your character die. And then the clone shows up and that character, you know, your same character, but it's a clone. So you can keep playing. And I think that a lot of players of tabletop role playing games, their entire thing is playing carefully and

cautiously and, uh, you know, and analyzing risk and minimizing risk. Paranoia doesn't like any of those things. That's not what paranoia is. Um, it's about, it's about having fun and kind of going balls to the wall and putting yourself out there and embracing that the universe ultimately hates you and is trying to crush you. DeSiccio in Discord chat says he feels the tone is also similar to Catch-22, just with a different content focus. Yep.

Absolutely. I would agree with that. Absolutely. Yeah. We got to play another game. We got to play another game. Now that Joe, since you have, uh, maybe you run a little paranoia for me. I don't know that I would love that. Yeah, I would love that. Um, let's see if anybody has anything to say on paranoia or severance. Thunderson has their hand up. Loki, if you'd like to, I like that last, I like that name, Loki Thunderson. Your mic is muted.

You'll need to unmute that and then you could join the call. Yeah, I've been feeling for a while I need to go back to. Hello. Ah, there he is. What's up, Loki? Hello, Loki. Sorry about that. No problem.

Hey. What did you want to talk about? Don't let it happen again. Don't let it happen again. I was running around my house when it's run out. I didn't think I was making fun. One of my all time favorite games. I haven't played it for years, but this whole discussion brought back

wonderful memories of the time I ran it. And it was like the second or third edition of the game. And they came out with a paperwork supplement that was just all for once. And the bell of the ball, the cream of the crop was the form request form. The form request form. It exists. And I was running around my house literally when I got called I'm trying to find where I had it. It's like an old binder from like 1987 or eight. I can't remember. But it was it was so much fun. But you know I get what I get. I totally I listen to that new game as well

as going on. It kind of broke my heart a little bit. But at the same time, I totally understood because this is not something you can just throw your average DDPoA into without explaining area to you without leaving it. And when you have this kind of. Bleakful adversarial, uh, GM, which I think is a, is a kind of fun way of, of referring to that, um, it, it, it may seem, I don't know, a little, a little tough to get into, but, um, yeah, it's shocking that it's such an old property because it kind of came along before I think people were quite ready for but but it was hugely popular but it's just it is so different from the D&D mindset. It had various

complexities as they went the original game got really really super complex. There were multiple complexes and they had to keep kind of shrinking the world to like get back to the basics. And there was a point where the rules were kind of different, like were not straightforward. And the rules got quite complex in some of the additions. Yep. And it literally said, I had to smith it off.

And I'm like, okay. additions. Yep. And it literally said, I had to smith it off. And I'm like, okay. But, but, um, the, the one thing that I did, uh, that's, uh, that I, I, I kind of made my thing was that one I would pick one clone who would be my favorite. I take them randomly and I rewarded him for everything in the wrong. And I never killed him, but I killed everyone else.

That is arbitrary in the way that the computer is arbitrary and ruthless. That is beautiful. It's so funny. He was possibly the worst of the lot. He destroyed an entire sector of the complex to finish a mission, to kill a graffiti robot and he got rewarded for, uh, for inventive problem solving. I, I, I ran the module that's right out of the new book, the,

the current core book. And in that module, the first person you have to take down is the person who gives you the mission. That's a good- I think my players took her out with a nuke. I think that that actually happened. Accidentally a nuke, I think. You can ask, yeah. And this is a film, I was just like,

and then it got to their heads, we're like, oh, okay. If we do the worst thing, we'll get rewarded for it. I think when yesterday, they were immediately. I just wanted to turn them against one player. Yeah. That's great. Great. Well, Loki, thanks for the call.

That's a true paranoia fan right there. That's great. I mean, the form request form. And you can see how this ties into separate. You could see someone in severance having to fill out a form request. Well, I'm telling you having watched severance, I'm like, now I kind of want to go back and play a little paranoia. Like I kind of want to have that. That sort of closed, uh, environment, you know, mindset, and, uh, this is the only world, you know, dystopian nightmare.

Yeah. Yeah. Um, what should we call it? Narcy on discord chat says I played in a paranoia LARP once with water pistols and numbered lanyards for clones. That's awesome. Isn't that great? That's cool.

I would totally do that. Yeah. Uh, anybody else want to talk? Uh, now I don't think anybody else wants to talk paranoid right now. Let's, uh, let's either move. I don't, I don't have any other thing on paranoia. I think we just need to, I think we need to play one one time. That'd be fun.

I think we need to play one. Um, I think that we need to talk a little bit about comedy in role playing games because you know the form request form. Thank you so much Loki for bringing that up. That's legit. Just funny. That's just so funny. Yeah paranoia always had really actually funny stuff like that in it.

But I think other attempts to make funny things in role playing games always fail. Um, and I'm trying to think of like other comedy role playing games. There was a co Joe, I wonder if you've heard of any of these, you know, there was a video, a video game, a tabletop role playing game called tune. Nope. And it was, it was by Steve Jackson and games T O N tune. Okay. Like are played where you played cartoons. Um, and you were supposed to sort of mimic,

you were supposed to sort of mimic looney tunes, cartoons, and I'm just realizing as I'm looking at it, that the guy that designed paranoia also designed tune. Oh my gosh. And I have a really embarrassing thing to admit. Tune was one of the first role playing games I ever owned. It might've been the first one. Really?

Yeah, talk about like starting with the opposite of the basics. I may have played Dungeons and Dragons before that, but I think the first one I bought was tune. Um, and you know, it had all kinds of rules, but I mean, I, you kind of had to create your own funny with that one. I'm going to see if there's any others that are, you know, in the, in the video game space, there were vanishingly few funny games either. Funny role playing games. Um, I can think of, uh, have you ever heard of leisure suit Larry? Oh yeah. Yeah. I know leisure suit Larry. You know what I think is legitimately pretty funny. Uh, and also a very good video game is borderlands.

Did you ever play borderlands or hear about borderlands? I did not play very much borderlands. That's definitely a role playing game, right? It's like a shooter. It's like a shooter, but it has role playing game aspects, you know, if memory serves where you're, you level up certain stats and stuff like that. But it's, it's, it's very funny, hilarious experience, but also really well designed game too. If a game is just funny, but not an interesting game, it's going to suck. You know what I mean? If a game is an interesting game and it's really trying too hard to be funny,

it's going to suck. So it's a very hard target to hit. It winds up with, it winds up with severance, but portal and portal too are both hilarious games. Yeah. Yes. They're really, really, really funny. That was what was mentioned to me as the inspirational sort

of media look for Paranoia, as I said earlier. It was like, think of Paranoia kind of like if you were in a Portal game. Yeah, absolutely. I just found another role playing game that I remember being really funny, which it's called inspectors. And it's a parent, you know, inspectors. Yes. I played inspectors. This is, this is like pre

glass cannon days. Actually. I was invited over to a buddy invited me to a friend of a friend's apartment. I didn't know anybody there except one buddy. He was my pathfinder GM at the time. a friend's apartment. I didn't know anybody there except one buddy. He was my pathfinder GM at the time. And he was a GM in a game with Skid and I, McD and Troy. And he went, and I went to this guy's apartment and he gave us inspectors character sheets. And we played like a one hour, two hour demo-y kind of thing of just.

Inspectors. Uh, and that was super fun. Super fun. It's a paranormal investigation role playing game where you are assumed to be part of a reality show that is inspecting paranormal phenomenon. And so there are even confessionals where it's just like you talking about what's going on, your character talking about what's going on. And I remember it honestly being a funny game, like to read and to play.

So Loki, Loki Thundersen, who was just on the show says in chat, inspectors, Ghostbusters with the serial numbers filed off. Right. Yeah. That's kind of the vibe. It felt very Ghostbusters when I played. It was so much fun. Yeah. Yeah. So I guess there is comedy role playing to be had out there. And I usually don't try to mix comedy and role playing games, because I find that, you know, it kind of happens by accident.

If you're playing a really serious pathfinder game, no one needs to try to be funny. Funny stuff is going to happen. The dice is going to make funny stuff happen. People trying their best to role play is going to make funny stuff happen. You know, you don't really have to like honestly role play. Well, right is what makes funny nonsense happen.

Yeah. You know, like trying to make funny nonsense. I feel like, uh, falls flat with me most of the time. I think it always falls flat. Yeah. Yeah, you gotta like really play it, play it honestly, play it sincerely, play it seriously. And you know, that goes for these comedy role playing games as well.

If you're playing paranoia, you should play the reality of the character in Alpha Complex being pushed around by the computer and the comedy will take care of itself. Yeah. It'll take care of itself. So that's just a little bit about paranoia and comedy role playing games.

Now I think we can move on to a little segment we thought we'd try where it's we're calling it your next watch because that's what appears on Netflix, right? After you watch something, after you finish something. Yeah, I think it's an algorithm-y thing where it's like, well, if you like this, check out this. There's because you liked or because you watched, then there's also your next watch, which is kind of demanding in a weird way. Oh, it's incredibly boundary breaking.

Very presumptive. I'll decide what my next watch is. Okay? Right. Maybe it's my children. You know, like I might turn the TV off. Yeah. So, so what we're going to do is just recommend some things or just talk about some things that if you like Severance, you will also like this thing. And I tried to pick two things, one of which I think is pretty obvious. And one of the one thing that might be a little obscure, a little bit obscure, not super obscure. So, and I know I think McD has at least one thing as well. So, so severance, we're dealing with this sort of the dystopian kind of satire, this feeling of being trapped, this feeling of not being able to escape, uh, this sort

of sci-fi element where everything is a little surreal. And when I combine all those elements, I think of a television show that I really enjoy that aired in the 1960s. Oh boy. In the UK. Joe, have you ever heard of the prisoner? No, you've never heard of the prisoner. Okay. I don't think so. The prisoner is a fantastic show. I've been watching it at doing a rewatch the last couple of months and it holds up. It really does hold up. And if you're someone who has no problem watching classic Star Trek, for example,

you will have no problem with the Prisoner cause I actually think it's a little bit of a better written show. The premise is this, and you can get into this if you're not like a satire sci-fi guy, a secret agent for Britain, you know, an MI six guy or whatever, decides to resign. He gives his resignation and he walks out of the offices of government and he goes home and they pipe gas into his apartment and knock him out and when he awakes when he awakens he's in this place called the village where the

powers that be keep all these people they don't want to kill but whom they want to like get the information out of their heads and it's this quaint little country village that is surrounded by mountains and the ocean. So it's very hard to get out. And they basically play mind games with this secret agent trying to get the information out of him that they want. And his character name is number six, because everybody in the village is just a number. So, it turns into satire of all these different things because like, I just watched an episode

where the village has an election and number six has to run for office. So all of these sort of like satires are kind of like, are worked into the show. But essentially he just keeps trying to escape over and over and over and he's never quite able to get out. There's all these like weird sci-fi elements.

Like when you try to like swim out or take a boat out at one point, he builds a boat and tries to take it out into the ocean. There's this big weird white bubble called the Rover that comes up and it like absorbs you and captures you. And there's this creepy image of people like, ah, like against the rubber of the Rover, like trying to get out. Uh, and it, and it, and it captures you and it takes you back to the village and everything in the village is just really pleasant. And, uh, and you know,

there's always like great breakfast ready for you when you wake up and every, you know, it just seems like all these like nice people that would live in a little English village, but all of them are really listening to you and watching you the whole time. And, um, his adversary in the show, number six is adversary is number two, who's the second in command, who's keeping him in this village and trying to get the information out of him. But number two changes, the actor changes every episode. And the,

the conceit is that every time number two fails in an episode, they replace him with a new number two and all these fantastic English actors play number two from episode to episode to episode, but Patrick McGuinn, the guy that plays the prisoner number six, that he remains the same. And, uh, uh, just one last thing. It's kind of interesting that he decided to do this show. The show is very psychedelic. It's very maud. It's very swinging sixties. Everything looks like a weird Austin powers.

He kind of like dreamscape the whole time. Um, this guy, Patrick McGuinn, who starred in the prisoner before that, he did a straight, nothing weird about it. Spy show called danger man. And he did that for like four seasons and he hated doing it. And then he pitched, he felt like a prisoner doing that show. So then he pitched the prisoner and they let him do that show. And that show let him get out all of his like counter cultural ideas and things

that he wanted to express when he was having to play, you know, the man in danger, man. Um, so that's my, that's my long spiel on the prisoner. Um, the best part is awesome. It's awesome. The best part is you can watch it on canopy, which is the free app from your library service. If you have a library card, you can get on Canopy and you can watch all, I think

it's like 17 episodes of the prisoner. Um, and it's, and you can see why it would be like severance. Let us get McD on here and see what he was going to talk about. McD, you have your pick. Uh, yeah. And it, yeah. Did you guys watch the dollhouse? Oh, hell yeah.

With what's her name from Buffy? Sarah Michelle Geller? No. No, the other one. The dollhouse was a Joss Whedon show, right? It was a Joss Whedon show. Only around two seasons. But it was about people that would have skills implanted in them.

They were dolls to go assassinate people, mostly. Eliza Dushku. Eliza Dushku. Also, the actress who played Gemma in Severance is in the dollhouse. Oh, really? She's one of the dolls. Yup.

Huh. Dyken Lockman. I? She's one of the dolls. Yup. Dyken Lockman. I think that's how you pronounce it. I like everything Dyken Lockman is in. Yeah. Basically. Dollhouse was awesome, and I remember watching it. And yeah, it was basically they took on a new personality

each time they go on a mission, right? They were these like, they were these blanks that, that took on skills and personality to be the ultimate secret agents basically. Yeah. Uh, you know, maybe not as heady as Severance, but definitely, definitely has a, has those vibes. The all house was a little heavier on the action, right? Correct.

And then often there was kind of a mystery or something to the mission that they were on that you kind of had to figure out. Yeah. So, that's one. And there's one I just started watching. So I can't tell you if it's actually good, but it's called The Rig and it's on Amazon streaming. The Rig, and it's on Amazon streaming.

It's like a mystery happening on an oil rig in the North Sea. Nice. And it's definitely very horror themed, but there's an evil corporation clearly controlling how they're dealing with what they- A British supernatural thriller. Oh, cool. Yeah, it's, love an oil rig. Wait, cool. Yeah, it's Love an Oil Rig.

Wait, is it based on a book? I read a book that has almost this exact story. I know that shit going down on an oil rig is not exactly. There's plenty of those. But it was in the North Sea. It was a supernatural sort of situation. What's that book? I read this. It was like a thriller. It was in the North Sea, it was a supernatural sort of situation. What's that book? I read this, it was like a thriller, it was super fun. Was it called The Rig?

I can't remember if it was called The Rig, I don't think it was. This does not appear to be based on anything, at least according to the Wikipedia page. Yeah, same, that's where I am right now. But damn, I'm going to watch that, McD. Yeah, it's cool. You know, like oil rigs, man. They're dangerous. Especially when there's like supernatural threats. Even the regular threats are plenty.

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. What's that Mark Wahlberg movie where he's on an oil rig? And he's like, oh, my God, the oil rig is exploding. rig. Um, and he's like, Oh my God, the oil rig is exploding. Uh, it's, uh, uh, deep water horizon, deep water, deep water horizon. My favorite title. So, so good. So good. Was that not almost as bad as the title K 19, the widow maker. Was that not the name of the oil rig that blew up? I think it's a true story.

That's probably why. I liked that movie. I want to watch it again. I remember liking it the first time I saw it. I found the book. It is Deep Storm by Lincoln Child. It's a classic like airport novel. Oh yeah.

And it was cool. I dug it. It was cool. It's like classic like airport novel. Oh yeah. Uh, and it was cool. It was, I dug it. It was cool. It's like, dude, you know, it's, it has that great like supernatural kind of prologue where it's like they're, the guys are just working, you know what I mean? And then they dig a little too deep and somebody sees something. They're like, what is that? And it just like cuts to black chapter one, you know, love it.

This is apparently part of a series with the title character being Jeremy Logan. Hello. Hello. I'm suing. I should be getting a check for this. Yeah. Clive Cussler has good things to say about it. So there you go.

There you go. That's all you need to know. Let's let McDermott, you don't have any more of these, right? Any more. Recommendations. Recommendations based on severance, but. I got to read the Pierce Anthony book, Kill a Bite. I've read Kill a Bite.

Holy shit. Yeah. Pierce Anthony, a problematic individual. Well, you know, on a long enough timeline, we all are. Yeah. That's a very good point. And I take your point on that, but I will say Piers Anthony, there was always weird sex in the book and sometimes not in the fun way. I'm not against weird sex in a book, but sometimes it was not in the fun way.

I'm not against weird sex in a book, but sometimes it was not in a fun way. Interesting. Yeah. I read Kill a Bite and yeah, I had many sleepless nights after reading it and not cause I was scared. Okay. I have one more thing to say about if you enjoy severance, you really have to read anything by Philip K Dick. I can't think of a show that is more Philip K Dick than severance.

And Philip K Dick literally has a story called paycheck where they erase your memory when you work on something. And it was made into an excellent John Woo Ben Affleck movie from 2003 that you have to see. You got an eye roll from McD on that. I'm going to go ahead and say top two movies of all time. Paycheck starring Ben Affleck. of all time paycheck starring Ben Affleck. Wow. Pierce Anthony wrote the novelization of total recall.

Based on the Philip K Dick short story based on the Philip K Dick story, we can remember it for you wholesale. Yes. Yes. Wow. I mean, it is absolutely fucking absurd to base a movie on a story and then have someone write a Novelization of that. Yep. That's very very late 80s. That's Philip K Dickie. It Yeah It's so dicky dick facts as we used to say on the glass kind of podcast

Cool well, thanks for the idea. Yeah. We got to talk about just Philip K Dick one dat time on the show. We need to have a whole set. Yeah, jot that down. Jot that down. We need to have a segment where I just say, and we should have a segment on that. Yeah. Uh, yeah, that's the, the S we need a, uh, segment suggestion form. Yeah. A form request form, form suggestion form. Yeah, a form request form. Form request form.

Let's see if anybody else has anything to add to this real quick before we do comments. Steve, we tried to bring you up earlier, I think, but it didn't work. Now you're on your phone, it looks like. Steve? Howdy. Hey, how's it going? How's it going? We wanted to get you in before we had to cut and run.

What's going on? I appreciate it. I was refamiliarizing myself with technology. So I can, not that I need to, but I can vouch for Jared. I think the prisoner is kind of like the only recommendation if you want to like hard stick to kind of like the general feeling of severance. The prisoner is a trip.

I'm not as passionate about it as Jared is. I'm not convinced it holds up, but I'm happy to defer to Jared's expertise on that one. Um, prisoners worth watching just to say like, what the, what the fuck is going on here? Yeah. The trippiness of it is just, just to look at the trippiness of it is really fun. It seems like, uh, Patrick McEwen must've had pictures or something of, of people cause like they just let, like they just did kind of whatever they wanted. They're like, yeah, sure.

Go with this crazy story. Yeah. Are you saying he must've been able to blackmail the executives that made the show? Yeah. Yeah. No, they really gave him been able to blackmail the executives? Absolutely. That made the show. Yeah. Yeah. No, they really gave him a blank check for that one. For sure.

Like if you're going just with sci-fi and if you want to veer off a little bit, I can't recommend enough travelers. I think it's on Netflix. It's got a whole time traveling thing. Um, you know, it's not severance. Don't get me wrong, but uh, travelers is really strong. Sci-fi. Couldn't recommend it.

That's Eric McCormick from. Yeah, absolutely. Yep. Yeah, I've seen that poster of that show. I've never actually clicked on it. It has an interesting premise. They they, and it is like severance. Thanks for calling in. They're very, very, and it is like severance a little bit

very, very, very tangentially like severance. Cause I believe they have to travel into other people's bodies and sort of take over their lives. That's how time travel works in that universe. Yeah. I'm vaguely remembering this. I remember like when people, when it first came out and people were talking about it, I was like, so wait, it's just quantum leap. Uh, but it, yeah, it has some different twists, I guess that is, that's just quantum leap. But it, yeah, it has some different twists, I guess. That is that is like quantum leap. You're right. But very different focus, very different vibe. Yeah. And I think it's Canadian. You got to love the Canadian sci fi shows your orphan plaques and things like that. Maybe it's not Canadian, but I think I think it might be. There it is. Travelers TV series.

All right. Well, let's move on to comments below here as we wrap up. Canadian specialty channel showcase. I was right. I can tell you, you name a show. I'll tell you if it's Canadian. That's just one of the talents that I have. The kids in the Hall. Canadian! Correct!

Battlestar Galactica. The new one. Canadian! It was shot in Canada, I don't know if it's Canadian. That's Canadian, that counts! That counts, that counts! I think all I'm going to give you are like Canadian shows. Right. Of course. SCTV. Exactly. Schitt's Creek. Schitt's Creek. I was just going to say Schitt's Creek. Amazing.

Continuum. Let's get some comments below before we bounce. Look, the reality is there are people that listen to and watch this show in droves, Jared, that are not here with us live or unable to be here with us live. And sometimes they chime in with their thoughts or ideas that might've been able to get on air if they were here live, but it didn't happen. So I wanted to, I mentioned this last week offhand, we should read some comments of people that would have added an interesting little wrinkle to the show or just some funny and stupid. And you were like, we're doing it next week. So I was like, all right, I'll look through and I'll pull a few things.

Obviously we're running short on time. So I'm just going to mention a few things here and we'll do this again in the future. So please, by all means be encouraged to chat in on YouTube, go to the YouTube release of the show and write in some comments there and comments those comments coming. We might read them up here. So just from last week we were talking about action heroes and stuff. This one from Ben Allen, 7403 says, my favorite bit of trivia about Die Hard, which I never knew this, is that it wasn't until the fourth movie that the script was actually written as a Die Hard movie.

The first movie was an adaptation of a short story and the second and third were unrelated scripts that they changed the main character's name to John McClane for and then threw in some stuff about his wife. I never knew that. That's amazing. Yeah, that happens, right?

I mean, but they, that kind of action movie, a lot of people were writing it at that time and they all feel like diehard movies now, don't they? They feel like they're of a certain theme and mood that fits that original movie. Yeah. Yeah. This one from two weeks ago, I'm going to bounce around a little bit. When we were talking, we brought up D&D settings.

You talked about buying an Eberron book and Donovan Ling says, definitely do a D&D world settings show. So many options to go in depth about. Well, guess what Donovan, we're doing it next week. That's right. Next week, tune in live 12 o'clock Eastern if you can. If you want to get on the show, we are going to do a chunk-tacular D&D settings show. So much nostalgia, so many wonderful memories, and so many great guests. We're going to be bringing on Eric Mona, publisher at Paizo, is going to join us, who, as Jared said, literally wrote the book on Greyhawk. And Skidmar is going to join us as well on that show. So we're going to have a big old blowout Glass Cannon Radio next week. And it's going to be all campaign settings.

It's going to be whoops, all campaign settings. Whoops, all campaign settings. We're going to do it all next week. A couple great guests. That's going to be really, really fun. And then whatchamacallit, at Linus4D1 in that same show said, I would love a discussion about the campaign settings of Pathfinder. Tianjia, Arcadia, Ustalov, Numeria, et cetera. There's a lot that the world of Galarian has to offer.

I agree. So that could be another one down the line. You and I, and you are getting more and more familiar with Galarian and seeing that there's a lot of interesting- I love Galarian. I love Galarian. Very, very interesting. Let's go back to last week where we talked about VTTs, theater of the mind, at Mecha Maya wrote in something

nobody said during the show, as someone with aphantasia, it always sucks to have to play theater of the mind because I literally dot dot dot can't visualize things in my imagination, like my brain is incapable of it. So VTTs and maps and minis are honestly essential for me. I had not heard of that before, but thank you, Mecha Maya. I looked it up, looked into it. Mecha Maya, you should play with minis and maps then.

Yes, that would be highly recommended. Can't form images in your mind. What a theater of the mind would really suck. Would really suck if you saw it from that. Here's another one, a fun fact. This goes back to our discussion with Brian Holland theater of the mind would really suck, would really suck if you saw it from that. Here's another one, a fun fact, this goes back to our discussion with Brian Holland and Mad Max Fury Road at Snorp and Base 4196

says there's a detail someone pointed out about Fury Road is that every time Max just shoots from the hip, he hits perfectly. But every time he tries to aim, he misses. Yeah. And, and, and opposite Furiosa, every time she shoots from the hip, she misses. And whenever she's aiming, she's a beast of a shot. It's just this lovely little thing.

I think put in, that was put into that should be some kind of each other in fights, like some kind of feet or flaw in a role playing game. You know, you're shooting at the hip, but you suck at aiming or something like that. Moving along, Jared, you remember you went off on a little rant on skipping intros? Oh, yeah, I was right about that. At Travaldo, 1559 says I never skip glass cannon intros. They go. Well, thank you. We appreciate it.

We also talked about good co-op games. As far as I remember, this never came up. Adjel Robert says, Deep Rock Galactic is the greatest co-op game. It never gets boring. I played a lot of Deep Rock Galactic. Can't believe I didn't mention it. Jared, I think if you could play a video game again, you would love playing Deep Rock Galactic. It is a sci-fi, sort of a quasi sci-fi dwarven mining simulator simulator. It's very arcade-y, but basically with

your friends, you tunnel beneath the earth and you have to like get a bunch of ore and get out before unknown horrors from the depths kill you all. And so you're just racing around. You build, you have like somebody's an engineer, somebody's a gunner, somebody has like radar tech, somebody has whatever. And you have to find oars, mine them out. And you're literally you'll be cutting oars out of stone while you're like the allies have to cover for you, because it'll be like warning, warning, monster swarm.

And they start coming out and they're just trying to shoot at your back while you're you're just like drilling in the stone and like, keep them off me, keep them off me. It's really fun. That sounds awesome. Does it get sexy at all? Uh, I don't remember any, uh, sexiness. No. Okay.

It's probably not for me then. Probably not for you. Yeah. You prefer those pornographic video games. I like a sensual video game. Uh not for you. Yeah. You prefer those pornographic video games. I like a sensual video game. All right. Two more.

This is from episode seven of Glass Cannon Radio. We talked about, we talked about, I mentioned, this was interesting to me. I mentioned, how do you clue in your players that the threat they're about to face? They're not meant to fight, right? And I said like sometimes I'll literally just tell them the AC of a creature I'll just speak in the meta to the players So that it quickly describes to the characters what they're seeing They're seeing an unbeatable force and so Ben Allen someone who we just mentioned a second ago

I had another great comment one way to communicate the players the level of a threat You're there about to face is what I think of as the wharf maneuver from Star Trek The Next Generation. Wharf was always the biggest, toughest guy on the crew. So when the Enterprise would encounter some alien, the writers would communicate how incredibly powerful it was by having it throw wharf around like a rag doll. So before the encounter, you can introduce an NPC to the party, describe them as being incredibly badass, and then he joins them in the encounter and gets epically murdered right away.

And then it's clear to the party that if they want to choose to mess around with this thing, they would die. So anyway, I thought that was a fun, the war maneuver. That's great. I love that. That's so good. That's great. I love that. That's so good. Thanks, Ben. And then finally, I said that I'd mention Dungeon Crawler Carl again, just a note from

Glen Luke, 5985, who wrote in and said, I'll try Dungeon Crawler Carl, but I have a suggestion for another easy and fun read. A good lit RPG genre series is Robert Bevin's critical failures. Quick read, dirty jokes, audio books are great too, and there's 10 books in the series with multiple short story anthologies. Give it a shot. It's a cheap read and available on Kindle Unlimited. So there you go. One little, if you like to come to Crawler Carl. There's another lit RPG. Yeah. If you're interested in more lit RPGs, Robert Bevin's critical failures. Original Jim says, oh yeah, I read the first four or five of those. Not too shabby.

Yeah. I've heard so many lit RPGs have been recommended since we did Dungeon Crawler Carl. It's an entire genre. Yeah. Also, geez, I don't want to promise it, but maybe, maybe during as part of the whole, uh, D and D campaign settings next week, we may just announce a new book for book club. Just saying there's something on the fire.

Jared and I have been discussing this might be announced next week. So tune in. Uh, I think we may pull the trigger on something. So dragons of autumn, Twilight, dragons of autumn, Twilight. I love it. I love it. Amazing. That was the first dragon Lance novel. The first dragon Lance. Well, that's not the book. That's not the book guys. I was making a joke. That's not the book. I was not making a joke. I was just making a joke. The actual first book is going to be the actual next book is going to be spell jammer

beyond the moons. That's going to be the next book club book. Uh, so we can learn more about spell jammer. So good. I am going to read this. I just read, I just read an Eberron novel, Joe. I just read a Eberron novel called city of towers. Uh, and this is just to really immerse yourself in the world and setting and everything. So when you run it, I was just into Eberron for about two weeks. And I was like, I need, I had just read a kind of a heavy book, like a nonfiction book. And I was like, I need something I can finish in five days.

That is just silly and stupid. And, uh, boy, it, it fit that, that bill. So, um, yeah, these old-playing tie-in novels are fun. Well, that's going to do it for us. Seriously, write those comments into YouTube if you didn't get on the show today or you want to get your thoughts in there. I'd love to read them again on air.

That was really fun. And thank you all for watching and interacting with us, whether it's here on Discord, on Twitch, or on YouTube. We're live every Wednesday Wednesday 12 o'clock Eastern Come check us out there, but otherwise big show next week Eric Mona joining us skid joining us D&D Oh, yeah settings. We're gonna have callers on the show Yes, we're gonna visit the domains of dread we're gonna go to crin It's gonna be awesome crin. I remember crin. All right, take it easy everybody. We'll see you next week. Bye

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